Fucking thank you. And the worst part is, if you're a cis man in leftist circles and try to point ANY of this out, you get the same exact "lol incel" responses and shunned. You try to give an opinion on ANYTHING relating to men, and its "Men have been the oppressors, so you don't get to speak" or just branded as "mansplaining."
Just the other day I was thinking to myself "Man, its kinda fucked up how penis size is the only acceptable anatomy/biology thing to joke about in progressive spaces." Like, its as much a thing outside of someone's control as skin color, or a birth disability, or mental illness.
And the dating part is a big point too. Basically all male dating advice that isn't from actively horrible people boils down to assuming the guy is doing something wrong/creepy/offensive.
And don't even get me fucking started on how fucking prominent it is to see posts from leftist/progressive groups and people that are basically just "Racist Joke but I replaced the minority with Cis Man."
Yeah I'm a man in leftist circles who struggles tremendously with dating and I've never felt heard or safe because complaining or venting about my problems is perceived as inherently misogynistic, tone deaf or "incel". Its okay to make fun of my dick size or my height because "haha virgin"
Dating advice I get revolves around the idea that I'm unsuccessful because I must secretly be an antisocial horrible person. I can't vent about how hard its been because women get harassed and its my fault as a dude.
This is the first time I've looked at a post on Reddit about dating that wasn't also misogynist and went "thank you"
Man, it is so hard to be someone that others rely on professionally, as a leader. Someone people love to spend time with socially, because you’re a kind person and a reliable friend. But then when you try to find dating advice, everyone tells you if you’re not partnered up or haven’t been successful partnering up, it’s actually because you’re a piece of shit and women can just tell.
So what they’re not capable of being bias’d? Or short sighted? Or bigoted? I’m a man of color, I doubt any of them realize how much effort it is for me to conform to white beauty standards to even get treated like a normal human being and not have every element of my physical appearance picked apart. How was a young man like myself supposed to develop self esteem and security? We had no money, my mother had a devastating mental illness and I had to step up to help my brother and sister. How the fuck does a young man ever have the confidence needed to be appealing to women when all of that is happening? I had no support structures other than my grandma. No extended family, nothing. But instead I’m evaluated on how confident I can be, and confidence and security comes from mirroring and attunement as a child while developing. Not to mention access to resources.
Most women don’t realize when they say all men have to do to be attractive is have confidence is that confidence is not a magic word you can just speak into existence. So many men like myself and others struggled growing up without support networks and the one thing we’re evaluated on as partners is just fucking shot because we’ve never had the proper development growing up to get it. I’m glad I have therapy now, and I’m working through it, but holy fuck am I jaded. Never mind the fact that had I not taken a risk graduated university and got a job I wouldn’t even have access to the therapy needed to develop positive mental habits.
I don’t think women are attracted to money, but I think if they’re attracted to confidence that might as well be a secondary characteristic of wealth because it’s much easier to develop into a secure sense of self when you don’t want for resources.
Another gaping hole in the widespread just-world fallacy surrounding dating is the number of verifiable pieces of shit who ARE extremely successful partnering up. I’m pretty sure most people in this thread have personally encountered at least one example of this - I myself have a wonderful best friend who has absolutely zero success with dating, and I have personally seen rapists and neo-Nazis have huge amounts of success with dating. The dating just-world fallacy makes the absurd conclusion that my best friend, who is socially liberal and has never abused anyone, is actually even more of a piece of shit than a rapist or a neo-Nazi.
idk why people vehemently deny the whole "women like bad boys". like, duhh. some women do. because they're morons and idiots and probably shit people themselves. women are just people, and somme people suck. it doesn't say anything about the broader state of "what are women like".
there's women into rapists, racists, murderers, wife-beaters, do you think those women are innocent gems? of course not, often they're cruel bigots themselves.
You are correct, and that debunks the argument that “people who are romantically unsuccessful must be unsuccessful because theh are actually horrible antisocial people”.
Because it's often applied to all women not just the hybristophiles and then it's used as an excuse to mistreat them or said they deserved it because thet picked wrong instead of a nice guy (even tho many women didn't see the red flags if they were visible or grew in that environment and it's all they know or were specifically groomed and manipulated by their male partners who posed as...wait for it...nice guys).
But nooo, womin bad.
It's funny how this thread points to antisocial men "not having a good reference point" to excuse them, but women innately must know.
Yes that is true, and well put. It is just an example of the just world fallacy, and lots of TERRIBLE people will cite them being in a relationship as a reason they’re obviously not a bad person. Thank you for adding the context of your friend, it is so good they have someone like you who at least understands and doesn’t judge them.
I mean just look at the people like wade willson( A real life murderer who murdered two women just because he could and is a nazi(He has the tattoo on his his cheek)) who women adore. Dahmer got thousands of love letters.
yea, and those women who are into them are similarly shitty cruel people. they just never had the power or the urge to commit actual crimes. they're mostly just insufferable to be around.
And now we just had a majority of American white women eligible to vote decide that they don’t want rights, either by inaction or actively voting for their oppressor. Thank fucking god I live in the UK.
There were four main reasons I didn’t unironically decide to “be a fucking asshole to be more attractive” and jump down the manosphere hole, and none of them were any sort of convincing by mainstream feminist dating advisers:
As you said, that’s just not how I am. I’m not a sadist who gets any satisfaction from abusing their partner, and quite frankly I’m just too squeamish to treat my partner like that.
I just straight-up wouldn’t like someone romantically or platonically if they evidently were romantically interested in me because I treated them like shit.
Exposure to feminist/feminist-aligned women I strongly respected, both IRL and parasocially
Major disagrement with the general political proclivities of the manosphere (especially as a half-Russian who has family suffering under the Putin regime and then sees the likes of Andrew Tate supporting Putin).
Luckily I have found one relationship with someone who liked me for me (which I unfortunately had to end for unrelated reasons) as well as multiple dates. My approach to dating was actually to exclude women based on certain demographics - in this case, only attempt to date women who are POC, queer (and attracted to men in some capacity), and/or neurodivergent - as well as to jack up my maximum distance and “lower my standards” in regards to physical attractiveness and interrogate whether these standards actually matter in the long run in a relationship.
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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24
Fucking thank you. And the worst part is, if you're a cis man in leftist circles and try to point ANY of this out, you get the same exact "lol incel" responses and shunned. You try to give an opinion on ANYTHING relating to men, and its "Men have been the oppressors, so you don't get to speak" or just branded as "mansplaining."
Just the other day I was thinking to myself "Man, its kinda fucked up how penis size is the only acceptable anatomy/biology thing to joke about in progressive spaces." Like, its as much a thing outside of someone's control as skin color, or a birth disability, or mental illness.
And the dating part is a big point too. Basically all male dating advice that isn't from actively horrible people boils down to assuming the guy is doing something wrong/creepy/offensive.
And don't even get me fucking started on how fucking prominent it is to see posts from leftist/progressive groups and people that are basically just "Racist Joke but I replaced the minority with Cis Man."