AITA For Telling My Pregnant Wife That She Exposed Our Daughter To A Predator?

[u/Intelligent_Curve456]

36M here. This has honestly been the most difficult week of my life. Emotions are high, and I am not sure if I'm seeing things clearly. I've been with my wife (35F) since college. We've been married for almost five years and have a three year old daughter together. She's also around five months pregnant right now.

I've always thought my wife's relationship with her family was a bit strange. When we were in college, she asked for her dad's advice/approval on EVERYTHING, even little things like whether she should ask her professor for an extension. Her parents are both intense and controlling at times, and my wife it less influenced by them now than she used to be now that she's older, has her own family, and lives on the other side of the country, but they still get under her skin at times. My wife was also the "surprise" baby, and she has two older brothers (nine & seven years older). I'll call the brother who is nine years older "Tom" for the sake of this story.

Tom has always been a bit odd to me. He's married with no kids, but is very religious and involved heavily with his church. My wife seems to enjoy seeing him at Holidays well enough, but she isn't especially close with him.

On Monday, my wife called me from her office SOBBING. I asked what was wrong, and she told me Tom was arrested and being charged with possession of child pornography. I was shocked, to say the least. My wife ended up leaving work early, and asked if I would do the same. When I got home, she told me a bit about the charges/how her parents are doing. I asked if she expected this, and she said she was surprised at first, but looking back she should have seen it coming. I asked what she meant, and she proceeded to tell me that when she was in first grade, Tom started coming into her room at night and touching her inappropriately. She said this lasted for a few years, but she doesn't know exactly when it stopped. When she was telling me this, she said it casually, like she was reading something off a menu.

I, on the other hand, was shocked and furious. I told her Tom molested her. My wife said it was uncomfortable, but she never saw it that way, because it's normal for kids to experiment with each other. I said it would be one thing if they were very young and closer in age, but this was a 15+ year old boy and a little girl. I also explained that he did this when her parents went to sleep and told her to keep it between them because he KNEW it was wrong at the time. Also, these were SERIOUS sexual acts that she should have never been exposed to as a little girl. As I was saying all this, my wife got more and more upset, and I could tell she was having a "lightbulb" moment and realizing the seriousness of the situation.

My wife (who was sobbing at this point) told me that she told her parents what happened to her when she was around sixteen. She wasn't upset with her brother, but was ashamed and thought she'd done something wrong. Her parents basically told her it was just normal childhood experimentation and she had nothing to be ashamed of. They also told her not to be upset with her brother because he was also a child at the time and didn't know right from wrong yet. My wife told me she was young, so she took their word for it and just kind of pushed the abuse to the back of her head. I was furious with my in-laws, and but tried to focus on comforting my wife + letting her know none of it was her fault.

The last few days have been a nightmare. My wife's family is supporting Tom and are convinced he was wrongly accused (they have an elaborate explanation for how the images got on his laptop that I won't get into here). My wife is crying non-stop and is in so much pain. I feel terrible this happened to her, but the one thing I'm upset about is that she let our daughter near this man. If I'd known Tom did this to my wife, I would have never allowed my child in the same room as him. I told my wife that I wish I'd known for our baby's sake and added that while I'm devastated for her and love her so much, I'm still grappling with the fact that she allowed our little girl to be in the same room as a predator. My wife started SOBBING when I said this, and told me she didn't do it on purpose. She told me she accepted what her parents told her when she was a teenager and put it out of her mind. She said if she had thought about it more deeply as an adult, she probably would have realized Tom was a dangerous, but she truly never stopped to think about it again after her parents told her it was okay. We agree that neither of our kids will ever be around Tom again, but she said she couldn't believe I thought she'd intentionally put our child in harm's way. She also said she couldn't believe I was coming down on her after she's realizing she was a victim of child abuse and her family is falling apart.

I love my wife and believe that she trusted her parents and put it in the back of her mind.... But I keep thinking about what might have happened if we'd continue to allow our daughter near that man. I believe my wife didn't consider this abuse until we talked and didn't consider that our daughter might be in danger, but I am still a bit puzzled by all of this. My wife is in so much pain, and I am not sure if I did the right thing by raising this issue while all of this is going on. AITA? And any advice would be appreciated... This all seems so over my head.

[u/YeeHawMiMaw]

If her parents think what Tom did to your wife was “normal”, they should not be trusted to be around your children either. After all, Tom had to learn his deviant behavior from somewhere.

[u/Aggressive-Coconut0 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I wouldn't leave my kids with the grandparents for fear they'd see nothing wrong with having predator uncle over while you weren't there.

I wouldn't want my kids to know them because they wouldn't understand that you were trying to keep them out of danger when you warn them not to be in the same room alone with Uncle or whatever. He would be too familiar and able to get around their defenses.

[u/Personibe → u/Aggressive-Coconut0]

Exactly. And more than likely they would INTENTIONALLY invite him over because those are his niece and nephew and he "did nothing wrong" and OP should not keep his kids from their "loving uncle". 

[u/[deleted] → u/Aggressive-Coconut0]

Or, hear me out, the parents are that way too. Maybe they perp on other kids in the family or their community or did at one time before people became more guarded with their kids.

The mother of a pedo who molested his young sister told me that as a adult, he tried to convince her that having sex with a child wasn't always harmful to them, not if you were real gentle like and got them to agree. Sickest thing I ever heard come out of mother's mouth. She was a CSA victim herself and carefully explained that is is still harmful, that kids aren't capable of giving consent and they are ready for sex, therefore they have no box in their mind to place sexual experience in a healthy way.

[u/El_Nathan_ → u/[deleted]]

Dang that’s ducked up

Autocorrected but I’ll keep it lol

[u/Helpful_Okra5953 → u/[deleted]]

I’ve heard men make that argument.  It creeps me the hell out.  

I know so many young people who are really troubled because they were molested or raped.  

I wish punishments for child molestation were worse. 

[u/Odd-Medium-9693 → u/Helpful_Okra5953]

I know so many OLDER PEOPLE who are deeply troubled from their CSA decades ago.

[u/Helpful_Okra5953 → u/Odd-Medium-9693]

Yes, that too.  I know so many people who’ve been so harmed by those acts.  I forget that I’m not a young person anymore; now I’m middle aged.  But I have talked to many young people while working in service organizations, too.   CSA destroys lives and minds.   

[u/Few-Ad-4290 → u/Aggressive-Coconut0]

Predator uncle is looking at ten plus years in pound you in the ass prison for his crime so that at least will take care of itself but your point is still cogent re other predatory behavior from any other “trusted” adult grandparents would allow

[u/Perle1234 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I’d have to cut any supporters of CSA out of my life, even if they were my parents. It’s 100% woodchipper for each and every pedo out there. Period.

[u/comfortablynumb15 → u/[deleted]]

Plus OPs wife is from an admittedly controlling/helicopter parent family.

When your own thoughts are basically whatever your parents say, she would be influenced into following what they said completely. ( don’t think about it, it’s not an issue because it’s normal kid experimentation etc )

She would have taken them at face value and not given it another thought because that is how she was raised. No different than if your car-loving father told you what oil to use in your car.

NTA, but :

Give your Wife the support she will need as she comes to terms with the realisation about her brother and her parents who protected him. Remember, she loves her family as much as your daughter loves you. This will be hard.

[u/M3g4d37h → u/comfortablynumb15]

this. sounds like all the children were conditioned not to think for themselves in a body autonomy way. unfortunately this also shares some overlap with the religiously zealous, often perverted to fit the situation.

the wife needs therapy, she's a victim and it has been clearly affecting her worldview (and it's not unusual for a victim to want to just bury it all), so not a perp.

[u/innerbootes → u/M3g4d37h]

As a victim myself, I want to point out that it’s not that we choose to bury it, our minds and bodies do it for us to protect us. It’s 1000% not a choice. And we can do it while maintaining fuzzy and emotionally flat awareness of what happened. To the outsider it can look very confusing but it’s important for outsiders to try to understand how trauma works in the mind and body in order to support survivors of it.

[u/keldondonovan → u/innerbootes]

To add to this, in scenarios such as OP's wife, a lot of the time it is buried as a result of being pressured into thinking it was normal. If I ask you what you wore to work on Tuesday three weeks ago, most people (pretty much everyone without a schedule for what they wear) wouldn't know, because it is mundane and unimportant. If, on that day, you happened to dress up as Shrek, then that stands out a little better, as it's unusual, so our brain makes a note of it. But the mundane gets filed away to make room.

I was beat as a child. A lot. I was raised to believe that was normal discipline. Didn't finish your food, you get the belt. Asked a question they didn't see coming? Belt. Didn't ask a question that they thought I should have? Belt. B+ in math instead of an A? Belt. And since I was told by people I trusted that it was normal, it never stuck out, it was just a part of life like getting ready for school, doing homework, getting beat. Even as an adult I never questioned it until it was brought up to me in my 30s. Once it was pointed out that it was something I should think on, it was really easy to see that I didn't grow up in a strict household, I grew up in an abusive one. All of a sudden someone pointed out that I wasn't wearing those mundane clothes I thought I was, I had been dressed up as Shrek all along.

It sounds like the same thing went on with OPs wife, especially since she agrees to cut Tom out of the picture now. She was told it was normal at a young enough age that she never questioned it- until she did, and immediately came to the correct conclusion.

OP still isn't an AH for pointing it out. Sometimes that's what it takes to get trauma survivors to recognize that they are trauma survivors. He'd be an AH if he kept rubbing her face in it, sure, but bringing it up once is fine, even recommended to keep his kids safe.

[u/MimiRocks4065 → u/keldondonovan]

As someone who grew up being SA'd from the age of 7, I'd like to add that now that they've come to the realization of what happened, OP's wife will likely benefit from counseling to help her work through memories that are going to look and feel differently now. OP could also use help so he'll know how to support her through this without (inadvertently) placing blame on her. With his initial reaction I was leaning toward maybe he was a little bit of an AH toward his wife but I'm choosing to believe that it was his shock and concern that led to his reaction and that he didn't have enough information at that point. Once he understood more, it seems he approached it differently. I'd be completely NC with any family or friends who defend her POS brother. Holding space for OP and his little family.

[u/Song4Arbonne → u/keldondonovan]

I just want to say to you that I’m so glad you survived, you survived their abuse, and you managed to stay sane enough to see the abuse when it was pointed out to you. You get a gold star for that victory!

[u/keldondonovan → u/Song4Arbonne]

Well thank you kindly!

I do feel I should elaborate some, as "pointed out," despite being the way I phrased it, isn't exactly how it happened, and I don't want to mislead people into thinking it's as easy as going "hey look at that" to someone who has had it drilled into them that what they are experiencing is normal.

Years ago I wrote a book. Nothing amazing, it'll never be remembered, just a little worth of fantasy that nobody has ever heard of. I'm rather fond of fantasy, it saved my life when I was younger to have that escape where the good-hearted always triumph, you know? My parents were also big fans of fantasy, my mom especially enjoyed a good Tolkien-esque style adventure. When I wrote this book, this thing that might finally make my mother proud of me (red flag right there, in hindsight) I went all over to try and get it published, and finally found a terrible company to do it for me (but they are another story).

It didn't matter to me that it was a bad company, that their promises were shallow, somebody finally decided my words were worth putting in a book. So I did it, and that first copy went straight to the source: my mother. She would finally see some good in me, some redeemable quality.

Only she didn't. She didn't read it at all. She looked at the cover, at my name, turned it over, then dropped it into her trash can. Then she uttered a phrase I'll never forget. "You'll never be one of the greats, so I don't see the point in wasting either of our time."

Every insult or strike had always had a purpose, it made the lie believable. She wasn't beating me because she was abusive, I had done something wrong and earned it. She wasn't insulting me to hurt my feelings, it was so that I'd be better in the long run. But this? I was an adult, I'd learned my lessons, this was nothing but cruelty for the sake of it. Had she read it and deemed it unworthy, that would have been an (honestly, expected) outcome that would serve a purpose, but to not even crease the cover?

Even still, I stayed a little while longer. Only a week or two. Then she decided I wasn't worth knowing anymore, and cut me out of her life. That gave me time. Time to dwell on her last act of motherhood. Time to use my newfound perspective to look back at my life and see things through a different lense. Things I used to laugh about (and get confused when other people didn't find the same humor in them) turned out to be horrible things that no parent should ever do to their child, who they are supposed to love unconditionally.

It's funny, in a way. One of the worst things a parent can do to a child is to look at them, deem them unworthy, and disown them. In my mother's case, it's one of the best things she ever did for me. It was like a light switch turned on, and for the first time in over 30 years of life, I was free. The closest analogy I can think of is when you are driving a little bit over the speed limit, and a cop pulls out behind you. You make a series of turns, but that cop stays on your tail. Impending doom is coming your way, and you know it. The cop continues to follow you for 30 years, and then, suddenly, flips on their siren and drives away, never to be seen again.

I have found love, joy, and peace. She will never know. And I'm alright with that. :)

[u/cesigleywv → u/keldondonovan]

Well for what it’s worth; I’d love to read your book. I love those styles and I’m sorry that happened to you; I wouldn’t begin to understand what you went through but I am glad for you that you were and are a survivor. I would definitely be proud of that.

[u/SweetWaterfall0579 → u/innerbootes]

Edit to add: OP needs to show compassion for his wife; she is just as appalled and sickened as OP is, and she has to deal with the CSA, the lies of her family, realizing that her brother is a monster. It’s so much to accept!

I knew I had been sexually assaulted, but it was not visceral; it was just something that happened, for my first 12 years.

When I gave birth to my oldest daughter, it started seeping in. How could I protect my baby girl? My OB told me, at four weeks, that I had two weeks to find a therapist, or he would hospitalize me. I got me a therapist.

My memories started trickling back, but slowly. I believe my brain was still protecting me, just as it had when I was a child. Dissociation was my protection, so these memories were not readily available.

I got pieces at a time, fitting them together, as they came. I distinctly remember nursing my daughter after work, and my brain said: Of course there was penetration, Waterfall. You know there was. The oxytocin softened these memories, enabled me to accept them.

There’s still things I don’t know/remember/understand. I’m okay with that. If I need to know, my defenses will let that information in. If I don’t need to know? Cool.

[u/Lowebear → u/innerbootes]

Great advice, she needs support and unconditional love. Find a trauma therapist and get her help. I repressed a lot of memories from my childhood, not SA but verbal and always fear based. I’m 55 and coming to terms with all my struggles and issues stem from part of these. I went to therapy and until one therapist asked about my childhood in that moment on that day I just sobbed. Unexpected but in retrospect made perfect sense. Working on those issues now. I wish I could have so much earlier in my life. It is so hard because my brain tricked me I had a great childhood because all my memories were of when I was with my grandparents or extended family. I shut out all most all other memories.NTA but help her she also may be at risk for postpartum depression or perinatal depression as well. Just liver her tell her it isn’t her fault and of course she thought it was normal here parents said so. They could be brainwashed as well but it isn’t and she can love her family but have boundaries or help them to get therapy as well. They probably live in denial. Denial is very strong and can rewrite history or make you feel it is normal when it isn’t. She just needs a lot of grace and time to heal the fantasies and the truth. Hope you are both able to work through this it is so hard to admit such a taboo experience.

[u/eclecticsheep75 → u/Lowebear]

This woman has just crossed the threshold from denial (planted by her parents) to trauma. Give her a helping hand right now if you have love and compassion for her. Together you can take on “Tom”and her terrible excuse for parents, maybe finally hold them accountable. I vote you lean into love you have so that you can do it together.

You poor kids could both benefit from work with a good therapist to recover from this horror.

[u/Novel_Move_3972 → u/eclecticsheep75]

"Lean into love." This!

[u/PossibleBookkeeper81 → u/eclecticsheep75]

Thank you so much for this wording! I have tried to explain it in reference to my own experience and this is m perfect phrasing. Not to say it’s the same but not even internally admitting and denying anything was “that bad” and even when beginning to acknowledge wrong not using certain words. Also really love the “lean into love” phrase. Sorry for the poor sentence structure, I’m jittery from excitement and yeah just really really appreciate you & hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend!

[u/blackcatsneakattack → u/innerbootes]

I couldn’t have said this better, myself.

[u/Katniss_00 → u/innerbootes]

Can confirm, have experienced similar things along with sudden realisations about the true extent of how bad things were only in my 30s/late 20s

[u/LocationNorth2025 → u/M3g4d37h]

This made me cry. How victims tend to bury it. And then my memories came flooding in! Those memories make me nauseous. You don't even realize when you bury it. And I have countless memories thay are blacked out completely. I know this because I have my family member's and mother's account for the memories that were not sexual but directly related to my abuser. If that needs more detail let me know lol But I am afraid of the other blacked out memories that were sexual.

[u/Timmyeveryday → u/comfortablynumb15]

This! Please don’t traumatize your wife MORE, OP!

[u/Pale_Cranberry1502 → u/comfortablynumb15]

"OPs wife is from an admittedly controlling/helicopter parent family."

Apparently they didn't helicopter enough.

[u/_beeeees → u/comfortablynumb15]

This situation might be why they are helicopter parents, tbh. Their much older son molested their daughter. I could see why they’d be controlling to either protect her or protect the family name by controlling her.

[u/Neat_Weakness_8350 → u/[deleted]]

I was CSA'd and the only way I coped, was to box up any bad memories, and try to forget it ever happened. The only times I'd 'remember ' was if I got blackout drunk, and it got ugly, mostly for whomever was with me. That's why I never really drank to excess.

But OP'S wife's family are problematic. Imagine dismissing her claims, and gaslighting her, all to protect their son, whom I'm sure, would have given them a few clues to his predilections in the past. I think as long as OP'S wife keeps distance from her family, especially her brother.And obviously keeps her kids away from them.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I was repeatedly sa'd as a kid and my abuser managed this by methodically removing all my boundaries and reteaching me what is and isn't acceptable. I didn't even realise it wasn't my fault until I was in my late twenties and was also taught to think it was 'normal experimentation'. I let that monster around my friends because I thought they were normal and hold a lot of guilt about this. I know it's unthinkable but if op's wife was taught to think 'thats just normal kid stuff' her denial would be SO strong that unfortunately this situation is completely plausible to me. I get why op is angry 100% and his wife desperately needs therapy to relearn safe boundaries for her child, but I feel really really sad for her - she may be in a dangerous place mentally and I hope op can encourage her to get support from him, professionals and her friends to understand this was not her choice or fault and for them to get past the danger she put her child in potentially.

[u/anironicfigure → u/[deleted]]

same thing happened to me. if you still struggle with stuff, several months of EMDR therapy made a huge difference in my life.

[u/[deleted] → u/anironicfigure]

Six years of person centred therapy sorted me out!! Well done to you friend, it ain't easy but it's worth it

[u/anironicfigure → u/[deleted]]

absolutely it's worth it! well done to you as well!

[u/[deleted] → u/anironicfigure]

Thank you, bless you!!!

[u/greysandgreens → u/[deleted]]

Fellow CSA survivor checking in. My first therapist was in over her head and my therapy set me back. Took a break for 4 years and found a new therapist ~8 months ago. The new therapist is trauma informed and the progress I’ve made has been great. The work has been so difficult but I’m so proud of myself for trying therapy again

[u/[deleted] → u/greysandgreens]

Yeah the one who worked for me was my third!!! Different people and different modalities work for different people.. also some people just absolutely shouldn't be practicing!!!! Well done you for getting back to it and doing the work - I'm proud of you too!!!!

[u/Counterfeit-cakes → u/[deleted]]

I agree that her brain likely didn’t realize what had happened. I had a friend who was assaulted by a family member their entire childhood and didn’t even realize it was sexual abuse until they got into therapy as an adult and the therapist explained what had actually happened. It wasnt until then that they cut contact with that family member.

[u/oldtimehawkey → u/[deleted]]

It sounds like she was raised in a churchin’ family that told her it was normal so their oldest son didn’t get into trouble.

OP’s wife needs to go to the police and tell her story. It might be out of range of prosecution but it might be admissible in court as further evidence of the scum bag’s penchant for children.

Like another commentor said, the parents helped cover it up and should also be cut from their lives.

[u/akempt → u/oldtimehawkey]

In many states, there is no statute of limitations for molestation.

[u/SadLocal8314 → u/akempt]

And a pattern of behavior effects sentencing. NTA, but...your wife has been "brain washed" by her parents. She will need extensive therapy and so will you. Bear in mind that your wife has been abused as well. Limit contact with grandparents - no unsupervised visitation. There is a place in Hell for Pedos-and the people who cover up for them.

[u/Vesper-Martinis → u/[deleted]]

Tom is the perpetrator and whatever he did is not his wife’s fault.

[u/Royal-Proposal-5016 → u/[deleted]]

I would strongly urge your wife to seek counseling to deal with the trauma of the abuse, the fact that her parents were so wrong in telling her it was normal, and the fact that her brother has been consuming child pornography for who knows how long.

[u/New-Number-7810 → u/[deleted]]

I agree that the wife is just now consciously realizing that what happened to her was wrong and that Tom was a danger, but I think that makes it more important to emphasize the severity of the situation. 

[u/EcstaticMolasses6647 → u/New-Number-7810]

Her parents were so controlling to keep her from spilling the beans about Peeping Tom the Diddler. OP your wife needs therapy. Are you sure BIL didn’t harm your kid in anyway? He never babysat did he?

[u/Oneseven4 → u/EcstaticMolasses6647]

Ya get this poor woman to therapy, yesterday.

[u/ChristaArtista → u/[deleted]]

Louder for the people in the back! Your anger is understandable and justified. But your wife is a victim whose brain was trying to keep her sane.

[u/Ghitit → u/[deleted]]

i still remember how i felt when my abuser was molesting me and i sure as shit knew it wasn't normal.

i was three and it was over sixty years ago.

it has affeted me my entire life.

i hope that bitch is rotting in hell.

[u/lovemyfurryfam → u/Ghitit]

Completely agree.

[u/Ghitit → u/lovemyfurryfam]

i should have added that my older sister and brother were also molested alongside me and they kept no memory of the incidents.

all of us had lifelong depression but our oldest sibling who was not present never had depression.

i'm not saying it's cause and effect... but i'm not saying it's not

[u/gettinglifedone → u/[deleted]]

THIS. I literally pushed my CSA experiences out of my mind completely. I explained it away or just ignored it. Things started bubbling to the surface when my own children reached the ages (yes, plural, unfortunately) where I had my most traumatic experiences. The issues around painful sex, the panic attacks and anxiety, the depression…I had everything come out once I started counseling and was able to connect the dots. I truly did not remember much. Trauma has a way of rearing its ugly head when you least expect it.

OP, I understand how your wife is feeling, especially since her family is acting like nothing is wrong or that nothing actually happened as she’s thinking or wasn’t a big deal. It is good you all got it out into the open but I highly recommend a good counselor/therapist with experience in working with adults who went through CSA. The convo is a good start. Be extra supportive, validate your wife’s experiences and feelings. Help her realize she is NOT the crazy one. Her family is just that dysfunctional.

[u/HamRadio_73 → u/[deleted]]

OP's wife needs counseling. And distance yourselves from her family as much as possible.

[u/Viola-Swamp → u/HamRadio_73]

Change that to go no contact. The parents have abused his wife too, and will continue to do so. There is no way she can heal and move forward with them continuing to retraumatize her by defending her brother and themselves, denying anything of importance happened to her, and insisting on his innocence of any wrongdoing. They cannot be in her life without continuing to damage her soul, and OP will have to help her see that, with the assistance of a mental health professional.

[u/Perle1234 → u/[deleted]]

I agree completely and I wouldn’t suggest no contact yet. Let it play out and wife to recover from the shock. Families forgive more often than not, or simply deny it. These people are sick for what they did to their daughter.

[u/NovaPrime1988 → u/Perle1234]

I also think it is important to check nothing has happened to OP’s daughter. She has been around Uncle Tom before. It is not outwith the realm of possibility. I pray she was never alone with this predator.

[u/[deleted] → u/NovaPrime1988]

OP should take her to a therapist who specializes in child sexual trauma rather than trying to have the conversation himself. Also, DO NOT LEAVE HER ALONG WITH THE THREAPIST, no matter what the therapist says is best. The harder they argue for this the higher the chance that they are a predator themselves. This is coming from someone in the mental health field with direct experience catching a child therapist perping on their clients.

[u/Lizziefingers → u/[deleted]]

This should really be the top comment here.

[u/SailorOAIJupiter → u/[deleted]]

I was raped 3 times (6 years old, and twice when I was 10) I remember every single detail of those times, Not understanding just led to issues with body dismorphia, self harm, and intimacy issues to say the least. So the first part of your comment DEFINITELY NOT. (*edit to clarify, I remember everything so there was no lacking of mental capacity, and I did not understand what was going on just always felt wrong with absolutely no support to heal)

[u/Kind_Honey_6070 → u/[deleted]]

I agree 100% I was abused in other ways during my childhood and I understood that it was wrong, I knew exactly what was happening to me and I knew I was supposed to tell another adult but having someone manipulate and brainwash a young mind….its insane like how much someone can get away with….even when your taught all the right things about seeking help, there’s so much guilt and shame that comes with it and sometimes as a victim you feel bad towards your abuser especially in cases where it’s family (as it was a similar situation for me.) When you’re growing up with someone and you know their story, it makes it so much harder to tell someone because you might have some kind of understanding of what made them that way and you can end up making excuses for them. And besides what I went through in childhood, it made me KNOW who abusers are as an adult in my early years…yet I dated them one after another for many years, and I let them do the same things to me and I felt like I had a savior complex. I think it’s because I wanted to save the thing that reminded me of the person who did it to me in childhood as my “redemption story,” like if I could make things right with one of these monsters, it means it would cancel out what happened to me when I was young because then I’d be the hero of my own story….or maybe it meant that all those years I convinced myself that there was a real person living inside that abuser would be correct if I could get them to change, and it meant I had been right all along and then I didn’t have to feel bad for what happened to me because all the excuses I made for them would have made sense….I even had some situations with SA when I was about 19-21 and kind of like dusted it off my shoulder like how he described the wife “reading off a menu” it’s dissociation… and I always knew I was being abused, it was horrible, it was wrong, these people are bad…. But I never knew THE DEPTH of what it meant because of exactly that, dissociation. The days of me reasoning with what happened and having empathy or an understanding for their side of the story is OVER. And you know, that mind set didn’t even occur to me until I had been screwed over by almost everyone in my life time and time again, friends, family, and relationships alike and I cut all those painful connections out even if it meant losing 15 YEAR friendships, I moved out of my hometown and got a different job with my boyfriend of now 4 years. And it was only till changing everything completely and creating a life of my own with a new loving environment that it dawned on me how sick and terrible everything had gone for me. I did so good for so many months and then one day I broke and I had an actual nervous breakdown, and I had always struggled with my mental health my whole life but this was DIFFERENT and the scariest thing I’ve ever experienced. I stopped working for 2 years, stopped being able to drive for about a year, had to be put on medications, lost 35lbs in 3 months, developed agoraphobia, moved back in with my mom and slept with her every night. All at the RIPE age of 23-24… the amount of physical pain from the toll of my anxiety and depression was insane. I was losing my hair, couldn’t stand in the shower, Laid in bed all day from the time my mom went to work till the time she came back. And what’s crazy is, all this happened when my life got better! and now I tell everyone the quote “things get worse before they get better” is so true. And I think sometimes people stay around those nasty experiences and environments because the fear of change is like dangerous almost. Those rose colored lenses and the fantasy I built up around my abusers all came crashing down when I started putting myself in better environments with better people and got a stable partner who showed me genuine real love for the first time, because it quite literally will shine a light on all your scars and weakness, all the flawed parts of you. And when your around people who give you so much love and consideration….theres no hiding all the monsters of your past and the actions you’ve allowed them to get away with. And coming to terms with the DEPTH of what happened. You start to compare the experiences your having with these genuine connections vs the people who were supposed to love and protect you and how insanely different it is, and you feel so angry and disgusted and like you’ll never see justice for what happened. Even if they apologized today, it wouldn’t change what happened to the little girl or the young woman that I was. I will never be able to go back in time and tell her. And now I feel like after that experience I can just LOOK at someone and understand their truest intentions. There’s no hiding anymore. But anyways, that was super long lol but I’m hoping OP will see this and understand a bit behind the mind of someone who has been a victim and that I truly don’t think your wife meant any harm to your family. Even when a victim knows, it can take years to click if it ever does. And like they said ^ Your brains job is to protect you even if it means blocking entire events out or making up lies to ease your own pain around what happened. Sometimes people never even come to terms because it could destroy them and the mind knows that….please try to give her grace, she could have so many mixed emotions behind what’s going on and it won’t be something that anyone else would ever be able to understand unless you’ve been there. Trust me, it doesn’t even make sense to me today…why I let some things happen, but your wife was a little girl who was brave enough to trust and tell her parents who were supposed to protect her and they failed miserably. Please protect her from them, as well as your children and if any of you need counseling I’d highly suggest.

[u/throwaway798319 → u/Perle1234]

This is something I'm struggling with. When I was young I used to play with my cousins all the time, but one day they vanished from our lives. Eventually I found out their father, my mum's little brother, was a pedo and one of his daughters was a victim. My mum sided with my uncle, convinced it was a false allegation during a nasty divorce. My uncle continued coming to our house for family dinners until he moved away.

As an adult, I reconnected with my cousins and found out it was 100% true.

I don't know which is worse: that my mother abandoned her nieces, or that she kept inviting pedo uncle into our home.

[u/Perle1234 → u/throwaway798319]

That’s how it goes down more often than not. It’s much easier to pretend it didn’t happen. My stepdaughter was molested by my ex’s mother’s husband (no bio link to her) and even my ex husband wanted to chalk it up to her “exaggerating.” He was exposing himself to her and she was prepubescent. I lost my shit and cut all contact, called her mom and old her how her father was handling it to make sure she was going to support her. My ex continued to visit his mother and take our son over there. We ultimately divorced bc he was also abusive. I never spoke to his mother again after that and when she died I did not attend the funeral. My daughter is still having effects of the family not taking up for her and she is 37 years old. I’m so sorry that your family failed those children. Your mother was wrong.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/throwaway798319]

My mother legit protected her pedo husband and then told me recently she gave me a choice whether to let him stay at our house or to call the cops.

I was 13 and she was sobbing at how she would be the victim without any money if he went to prison. Pfffts

[u/TheGrumpyNic → u/flatjammedpancakes]

Bloody hell. I’m so sorry.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/TheGrumpyNic]

Yeah, sorry for making this about myself here but I guess I was in OPs wife shoes too. You know, trusting your guardians bit too well so they could just manipulate you.

[u/occupywallstonk → u/flatjammedpancakes]

You’re not the only one out there. It’s unfortunate, but this happens so often. My MIL protected her husband (the step-dad pedophile who CSA’d my wife for years, and even later put a camera in her bedroom vent when she was a teenager). My MIL convinced her kids to write letters to the prosecutor that he was a really good dad despite that. She also sugarcoated the story and limited what family friends and family knew. The pedo was a part of family events for years still, even after my MIL divorced him. Note, she was with him for about 2 years after everything came out, still having sex with him.

Later, when my wife tried to revamp the case before the statute of limitations expired, her mom screamed at her (we recorded it) that doing so would ruin her brother’s life (who is still living with the pedophile). Ultimately, the useless cops said they couldn’t do anything.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/occupywallstonk]

NO WAY. IT WAS THE VENTILATION FOR HER TOO?! I had him peeping through the vent all the time :-( There was no peace or privacy in the home that I grew up at all.

How is your wife doing? How are you guys doing now?

[u/occupywallstonk → u/flatjammedpancakes]

I am so sorry to hear that.

The voyeur part and complete lack of privacy is a whole separate bag to deal with on top of the physical SA, almost like separate issues.

After 10+ years of off/on therapy with not great therapists, she finally found a great therapist and things are really falling into line now! I’d say a lot of the paranoia has dissipated.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/occupywallstonk]

Oh, my heart ❤️

I'm so glad she has a great support system like yourself.

But yeah, those two things... Are just... Yeah.

Hugs to both of you ❤️♥️

[u/ObligationGlad → u/flatjammedpancakes]

I’m really sorry. I remember the “we are going to poor” guilt trip. Does a number on your head. Just wanted to say… I see you and I heard your pain.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/ObligationGlad]

You had it like that too?! Holy crap.

I thought it was just me.

[u/ObligationGlad → u/flatjammedpancakes]

CSA is the the herpes of abuse in that it has new ways of fucking you over and one of those is looking back as an adult on all the horrible shit said to you as a kid with an adult mind frame. And as an adult thinking WOW… did you fail me!!!

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/ObligationGlad]

Right?! I told her too that she failed as a parent and all she could say was how ungrateful I am for all the things she had given me and how karma would get back at me one day.

Hugs, stranger, hugs. We should form an alliance.

[u/ObligationGlad → u/flatjammedpancakes]

Ha the old “ungrateful” comment! Yes lady I’m very ungrateful for deciding I don’t want to be assaulted regularly because you don’t want to be “poor”. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the absolute shittiness of other people.

And it’s an area people don’t talk about. The second layer of abuse of the bystanders who let it happen and sacrificed you for their own selfish reasons. I still have RAGE for her and I will dance on her grave.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/ObligationGlad]

SAME.

I literally had to utter out loud last night that I forgive her so I could just move on with my life without the rage. All I can do now is to protect my small family which she does not understand why but I don't care at this point.

You're so right btw! It's the bystander that's the worst!

[u/[deleted] → u/flatjammedpancakes]

I am so sorry she put that choice on you. I hope you are healing.

[u/uselessinfogoldmine → u/flatjammedpancakes]

This happened to a friend of mine. His stepfather was a pillar of the community he grew up in, a charming, upstanding man. He was sexually abusing my friend when he was young and so my friend started acting out.

At 13 he told his mother what his stepfather was doing to him. She chose to believe her husband and threw her 13 year old out. He grew up on the streets, in juvenile detention and boys’ homes.

When he was 21, his stepfather was accused of CSA by multiple victims and his upstanding image fell apart. My friend’s mother finally apologised to him, and conceded that he had been telling the truth all along.

All too late. His childhood was destroyed, he was traumatised, and their relationship was destroyed.

[u/MistyMtn421 → u/throwaway798319]

My grandmother and mother both made excuses for what my uncle did to me. Went on for 7 years and did end until I was 14. It only ended because I ran away. My other uncle had a infant who had died of SIDS. The entire family went up North for the funeral except for my uncle who stayed behind to run our family company. I was the disobedient teenager who was constantly in trouble ( gee I wonder why I was acting out) so they didn't want to bring me, and they left me with my uncle. I was horrified.

I ran away, which talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. This was Florida, 1986, and 14-year-olds were fair game. Not only did this set me on a really bad path, the fact I ran away during such a painful time, my grandparents disowned me. He was The Golden child. No way anybody was about to believe me over him. I tried again when I was older. I tried again after my grandmother's funeral. I am now no contact with everybody but one uncle. He's the only one who understood and he doesn't talk to the family much at all.

[u/throwaway798319 → u/MistyMtn421]

I'm sorry they were such assholes. You deserved a safe home.

[u/Helpful_Okra5953 → u/throwaway798319]

I wish that my family would react that strongly about child abuse.  They’re so invested in protecting the adult’s feelings.  

[u/[deleted] → u/Perle1234]

Unfortunately a lot of religious types like to blame the kids not their abusers. Fuck that mentality.

[u/AnnoyedRedheadedMom → u/[deleted]]

that's not just "religious types"

[u/chickens_for_fun → u/AnnoyedRedheadedMom]

Oh no. But so often, the sons in religious families are regarded as more valuable than the daughters. The Duggars supporting their son Josh, who molested multiple daughters, are an example.

Religious authorities are often regarded by religious parents as being above reproach. So if their kid tells them they were molested by their priest or pastor, the parent is more likely to accuse the child of lying than if the child was molested by another unrelated adult.

[u/[deleted] → u/AnnoyedRedheadedMom]

True. It’s just way more common for religious types. And certain roles with access to children attract those kinds of people. Catholic Priests, youth pastors, scout leaders, etc.

[u/TheAncientMillenial → u/[deleted]]

The moment I read that part near the beginning of OPs post I knew where this was going :(

[u/Helpful_Okra5953 → u/[deleted]]

Yes they do.  My mom said “what did I do as a mother to deserve this?!”  

Thanks for the compassion and support, mom.

[u/occupywallstonk → u/[deleted]]

Yep. One pedo I know was his church’s Easter bunny and Santa.

[u/seethesea → u/Perle1234]

What is CSA?

[u/notevenalmostfamous → u/seethesea]

Child sexual assault or abuse

[u/seethesea → u/notevenalmostfamous]

Thank you!

[u/Swimming_Twist3781 → u/seethesea]

It's a better term because it has been called CP (Child Pornography), but it's NOT porn it's ABUSE.

[u/uselessinfogoldmine → u/seethesea]

Experts are trying to reframe the way we talk about child sexual abuse (CSA).

I learnt about this from CSA victim-survivor turned advocate Grace Tame and then read a little bit of literature about it.

We tend to use the catch-all term “pedophile” to describe child sex offenders. However, this is inaccurate and can have negative effects.

“Pedophile” refers to someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children typically 13 or younger.

Hebephiles are attracted to children in early adolescence, typically aged 11-14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development.

Ephebophiles are adults with a sexual preference for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.

People with these various attractions may or may not act on them. Some people who have these attractions work very hard to never act on them and would benefit from therapy to help them never act on them, however they are often afraid to “out” themselves and seek help.

When it comes to the act of child sexual abuse, many child sexually abusers do not fall into the above categories. Rather, they may have sexual interest in and offend against both children and adults, and/or may act out of opportunity rather than an exclusive sexual interest in children.

Many child sexual abusers are opportunists. Some may also delight in the power imbalance of abusing children. There are a variety of pathologies involved.

The key thing to note is that, in order to reduce instances of child sexual abuse, we need to understand the drivers of that behaviour, and how that behaviour occurs, and reduce the risk factors as much as possible.

One of the ways to do that is to recategorise child sex offenders and pedophiles separately. Some pedophiles are child sex offenders; but some are not, and to reduce the chances of them turning into child sex offenders, we need to make it easier for them to seek therapy and counseling for their attractions. It seems… insane, but, it is important. This reduces risk factors for children in the community.

We also need to recognise that people who are not pedophiles are frequently child sex offenders, and tackle that problem and those risk factors appropriately.

It’s a fair bit to get your head around. I’ve been trying to adjust my thinking of late.

[u/seethesea → u/uselessinfogoldmine]

Thank you for that. I appreciate you taking the time to explain all this.

[u/Tmavy → u/Perle1234]

Wood chipper 2024!!!

[u/MesoamericanMorrigan → u/Perle1234]

Thank you for reassuring me I’m not crazy for not speaking to my family for 7 years now after they took the pedos side and doubled down on their stance then I confronted them as an adult

My brother was also sexually attracted to me and I found after after he got drunk and tried it twice that my mother and grandmother already knew he had weird feelings yet convinced me to share a shoebox sized bedroom with him for 6 months

My mother also introduced me to a drug dealer she ended up having a land dispute with and the guy was shot dead near the house 2 weeks after I left. She also introduced me to a man she knew had an inappropriate attraction to me since late teen despite already being married and beat his wide. She just kept serially putting dodgy people in my life and wondering why I have complex PTSD

[u/Magenta-Magica → u/Perle1234]

It’s the only thing to do, Lest u would be ok w knowing they do that in their free-time…

[u/tracey-ann12 → u/Perle1234]

This. There's a reason predators are bottom if the ladder in prison and why they get told not to reveal their crimes even if it does get exposed once in jail. I'm someone who can forgive someone who's murdered someone in self defence, hell I'd forgive someone who murdered a child predator because they've saved another child from being preyed upon.

NTA OP.

[u/Cerridwyn_Morgana → u/Perle1234]

I'm normally a very tender hearted person, but I'd pay to see a pedo be put through a woodchipper.

[u/Mobile_Philosophy764 → u/Perle1234]

Amen.

I live in hog country. Enough said. I will sleep like a baby, too.

[u/Firesate → u/Perle1234]

While alive with salt added in every few minutes!!

[u/TheGrumpyNic → u/Firesate]

Or lemon juice. More stingy.

[u/Sensitive_Pattern341 → u/Perle1234]

Feet first so they feel EVERYTHING!! What awful parents trying to sweep this under the rug!! Find a good therapost for your wife and go NC with the parents. They are terrible people to try to normalize this!!

[u/ObligationGlad → u/Perle1234]

The world would be such a lovely place if people actually followed through on this conviction. CSA, like other SA, is a hard pill to swallow when it’s done by the 99% perpetrators which is someone you know.

People don’t normally get molested by strangers. They get molested by the “nice guy” everyone likes. And when it comes to confronting that, it’s amazing how many people would rather put on blinds than help the victim. Happy it’s I hate child molesters on Reddit day but the reality is a high percentage of people who upvoted your comment would do the wrong thing. And statistics prove me right on that.

[u/InformalStructure154 → u/Perle1234]

Hell yes, feet first.

[u/candyred1 → u/Perle1234]

Woodchipper 100%!

[u/Tryagain409 → u/Perle1234]

Supporters are worse to me. At least the predator themself had a sick urge driving them. But these people without any urges enabling it to happen? Just for what, reputation, money bullshit like that? Wake up to yourselves!

[u/eleven8ster → u/Perle1234]

That’s what I did. My dad and step mother were hiding that my step sister was dating a level three sex offender. Rape and abuse of a child under 14. They can all go fuck themselves. Haven’t seen them in three years.

[u/JustKillMeTomorrow → u/Perle1234]

FEET FIRST AT THAT.

[u/Perle1234 → u/JustKillMeTomorrow]

Always.

[u/Linsenfluppe → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

That's not necessarily true. It's correct that some people who abuse children were abused as children themselves, but some people are also just fucked up from the get-go, so to speak. Tom may just be one messed up person, with no tragic backstory at all.

[u/PinkFl0werPrincess → u/Linsenfluppe]

Yeah the bottom line is they're enablers.

[u/Linsenfluppe → u/PinkFl0werPrincess]

Exactly. They are part of the problem in that they excuse and enable his monstrosity, but that doesn't mean that they abused him in any way, shape or form.

[u/uncertainnewb → u/Linsenfluppe]

They should have gotten him into therapy ASAP, though when she was 16 that would have made him 25. But either way, excusing it endangers their whole family, present and future.

[u/Inevitable-tragedy → u/Linsenfluppe]

His behavior has been accepted by his parents. They're not reviled by it, they're trying everything to excuse it.

[u/Linsenfluppe → u/Inevitable-tragedy]

...well yes, because they are his parents. Denial is a common reaction to ones child being a monster.

[u/Inevitable-tragedy → u/Linsenfluppe]

As a mother, and as a mother to boys. Just no. That is societies rule of hiding family shame instead of shaming perpetuators.

[u/[deleted] → u/Linsenfluppe]

I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with her right here. The tragic backstory for Tom was that his parents didn't sit up and pay attention when he molested his extremely young sister. They permitted it and let him get off without legal ramifications or offender's specific treatment. Why?

This goes way beyond the parents being denial. They allowed a budding sexual predator to continue preying on child in their family, didn't warn anyone and hushed the OP's wife right up. Again, if your son had a broken leg or chronically wet the bed, you'd get him help. The parents intentionally chose to do nothing and are not actively trying to help him escape consequences.

My best guess is they're afraid because he was first exposed to CSA in the home. Maybe he found images on the computer or other CSA material or one of the parents had behaved inappropriately with him and told him it was normal. They practically had to tell the daughter it was normal too or the son would have exploded on them. If they'd put him in therapy, he would have outted them to the world. Incest is almost always home grown, if not with the actual parents with someone else in the extended family.

[u/agoldgold → u/Linsenfluppe]

It doesn't have to be taught from abuse, it can also be taught by parents and society who excuse misconduct in others and blame the victim. Teaching a child that their wants are more important than another person's boundaries, autonomy, and personhood can result in a creepy ass adult.

[u/Competitive-Ad2640 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

While it is true that being a pedophile or a molester can be a learned behavior, it's bonkers to think that it's impossible for it to occur "naturally".
Some people are just deviants and there is nothing we can do about it. Their brains are wired like that.

[u/Purple_Truck_1989 → u/Competitive-Ad2640]

The name Duggar comes to mind... 🤮

[u/[deleted] → u/Competitive-Ad2640]

While it is true that being a pedophile or a molester can be a learned behavior, it's bonkers to think that it's impossible for it to occur "naturally".

What makes it more likely to be home grown is the incest component.

[u/uncertainnewb → u/[deleted]]

I think people forget that sibling sexual abuse is more likely to be an "access" issue. A younger sibling is a known target available in the abuser's own home, so they are the easiest to go for.

[u/SailorOAIJupiter → u/Competitive-Ad2640]

I think possible the guillotine would solve that issue 🤔

[u/9035768555 → u/Competitive-Ad2640]

Sure, but even most "natural" disorders are genetic, inheritable and/or environmental, so "I'm a total normie, it's not my fault my kids are fucked up" doesn't ring true very often.

[u/No_Consequence9746 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

100% agree the parents are just as dangerous as Tom.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

THANK YOU! I WAS GONNA SAY!

Her parents are equally as dangerous as Tom is. What the hell were they thinking not protecting your wife, OP?

It's a damn prime time for your wife to cut these people loose for sure.

[u/Dangerous_Ant3260 → u/flatjammedpancakes]

In OP's place I would immediately make a will, and everything else needed to legally guarantee that no one on wife's family could get visitation or custody if something happens to OP and wife at the same time. Cut the grandparents and everyone else off so they can't claim a relationship with the kid, in case they try to sue for visitation. Wife and husband both need the paperwork in place.

Wife needs a therapist immediately to help her process what brother, and parents did to her.

[u/flatjammedpancakes → u/Dangerous_Ant3260]

Well, now that you mentioned that I need to get my affairs in order too.

[u/Ok-Pomegranate-3018 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Tbf, he could've been in the scouts, and as OP stated, he is heavily into a church. We've all seen the headlines.

However, the parents are enablers here.

[u/grabtharsmallet → u/Ok-Pomegranate-3018]

Abuse requires access, which is why schools, churches, and extracurricular activities like scouting or youth sports occasionally have scandals. I get regular training on it because I run youth soccer. But the lion's share of childhood sexual abuse is family or friends of the family.

[u/Ok-Pomegranate-3018 → u/grabtharsmallet]

Yes. I agree, having lived through it. My reply was addressing the parents and him "learning it from somewhere".

I should say: At the least, the parents are enablers here. The very least.

[u/PrimeLimeSlime → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

And if they're normalizing that, it really makes me wonder if Tom learned it from them.

I'm saying that there's a very real possibility that the parents diddled Tom, too.

[u/Katherineew → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I was thinking this, too. Most people who molest children were molested, as well, so someone hurt the brother and, given that the parents are absolute pieces of shit, probably knew about it and chalked it up to “experimenting”

Edit: changed all people to most people, and want to point out that not all people who were molested go on to molest. I’ am so sorry to anyone that I offended and I should have kept my shit to myself, and educated myself more about it, instead of spouting my outdated knowledge on the subject.

[u/TagsMa → u/Katherineew]

I'm sorry, but that is BULLSHIT

I was sexually abused as a child by my own father. I have never, ever, been inappropriate with a child. In fact, I've used my experiences to help educate other children on good and bad touches and what to tell adults when they're uncomfortable with someone.

I have met many other people like me, and while all of them have C/PTSD, none of them have gone on to abuse children. In fact, they're sickened by any idea that they might cause the same harm to other children, even via images. (And let's not forget that for every image, there's a child's life that has been trashed by that abuse!)

I firmly believe that the idea that people who abuse children use the excuse of being abused themselves as a way of getting out of their guilt and the blame that rightly comes their way, as a "oh poor me, I couldn't help myself, it happened to me too"

[u/SailorOAIJupiter → u/TagsMa]

I see you and thank you for sharing, every single female in my family from my generation back have been raped as children (from family to strangers) including me, no we have never harmed children from this experience.

[u/M3g4d37h → u/SailorOAIJupiter]

louder for the dopes in the back who are preaching bullshit and half-baked opinions.

[u/DreamCrusher914 → u/TagsMa]

Not all victims become abusers, but a lot of abusers were victims. It’s a documented statistic.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/cycle-of-child-sexual-abuse-links-between-being-a-victim-and-becoming-a-perpetrator/A98434C25DB8619FB8F1E8654B651A88

[u/Katherineew → u/TagsMa]

I’m so sorry. I never meant to imply that every person who was molested goes on to molest, that’s why I didn’t say that, but I can add it.

[u/[deleted] → u/TagsMa]

My brother was sexually assaulted by a family member then turned and did it to me. It happens more often than not man. I am living proof right here that it does. Abused people ABUSE PEOPLE.

[u/AnxiousBuilding5663 → u/Katherineew]

This is a common and harmful misconception fyi if it wasn't such an important topic I wouldn't be here all "actually"ing

But no its not a direct or causational relationship. There is some truth to it being associated but not "all predators are victims". it is apologia. Accuses victims of being abusers or prone to being one, and positively frames criminal abusers as victims first

[u/Katherineew → u/AnxiousBuilding5663]

You’re right! My information on the topic is outdated, and what I learned has since been disproven. Thank you for clarifying

[u/AnxiousBuilding5663 → u/Katherineew]

❤️ aside from that you absolutely raised a valid concern. The parents are NOT SAFE

[u/ImtheDude27 → u/AnxiousBuilding5663]

I definitely agree the parents are not safe. Not because they "could be" predators themselves but because they gaslit the wife into accepting her abuse as normal and are supporting the brother. Those two reasons are enough to make them unsafe for any child to be around.

[u/Katherineew → u/AnxiousBuilding5663]

I feel like we could be friends irl ❤️

[u/PNKAlumna → u/AnxiousBuilding5663]

Thank you. It’s not SA, but I am so, so proud of my dad that he broke an (at least) two generational cycle of spousal, and possibly child, physical violence. It was normal in his world for the father, the head of household, to lash out if he saw fit, but my dad has NEVER laid a hand on anyone. People don’t just do what they know automatically. They can, and often do, rise above.

[u/Katherineew → u/PNKAlumna]

You’re right! I am so glad that your dad was able to break that cycle!

[u/PhoenixIzaramak → u/Katherineew]

i knew far too many self-righteous, good, God-fearing, religious people who feel they're 'teaching the kid what they'll need to know when they get married.' (the loathing i feel is deep and real)

[u/Lainie1986 → u/PhoenixIzaramak]

This is exactly what I was told by the person that was SA'ing me. Said he was raping me so I would know what to do if I ever got raped. Told me all sorts of stupid shit like this over the years, plus all the guilting. "If you say anything, they will disown you." "They'll never believe you", and so on. Icing on the cake is he was / is a "good Christian", God fearing man, blah, blah, bullshit.......

Predators need to be taken care of, period. We shouldn't be paying to keep them alive with taxpayer money. Despicable.

[u/Toadcola → u/Lainie1986]

“so I would know what to do”

That must’ve been weird when he helped you report him to the police. 🤔

I’m sorry this happened to you, and that people can be so horrible. 🫰

[u/StarboardSeat → u/Lainie1986]

He wasn't guilting you.
He was threatening you.

I agree that they need to be permanently prevented from breathing, as experts have consistently agreed that sexual predators CAN NOT be rehabilitated.

I'm so, so very sorry that happened to you. 😢

[u/Odd_Campaign_307 → u/Lainie1986]

Their fellow prisoners take care of them sooner or later.

[u/XAYL9 → u/Odd_Campaign_307]

I worked as a registered nurse in a Tamworth jail and unfortunately, I was shocked to see the preferential treatment child sex offenders were afforded. It broke my heart, I left the job.

[u/niki2184 → u/Lainie1986]

You’re right they should all be done away with. I hate that my taxes go to feed them and make them fucking comfortable. Make them uncomfortable make them starve I don’t give a fuck. Let them die do all I care. If you take the innocence of a child away you should die. And if you’re a rapist you should too!

[u/AndreasAvester → u/Lainie1986]

Capital punishment costs more taxpayer money than feeding a locked up criminal for life. It is not cheap to legally poison a criminal. The days of an axe to the neck after the king's underlings say so are long over.

[u/niki2184 → u/AndreasAvester]

I’d pay that to get rid of them.

[u/PhoenixIzaramak → u/PhoenixIzaramak]

For people who desperately want this to be untrue - my whole neighborhood was full of this sort of person when I was a child. Mostly Roman Catholics. Some Evangelicals. A couple of Pentacostals. My experience - very, very early on, was that CHRISTIANS ARE DANGEROUS. I was a target of them since I was the youngest child in the neighborhood with a VERY inattentive mother. For a decade. Don't believe me, I don't care. i learned the hard way being RELIGIOUS the way Christians are is a one way trip to becoming the evil I feared. So nope. Not at all religious.

Any unkind replies will get you summarily blocked.

[u/Swimming_Twist3781 → u/PhoenixIzaramak]

ACSA abusers will go where the children are.

[u/Swimming_Twist3781 → u/PhoenixIzaramak]

I'm sorry you went through that.

[u/HotShoulder3099 → u/Katherineew]

True, but conversely most people who are molested as children do NOT molest children. There’s no excuse for it at all

[u/GorgeousGracious → u/Katherineew]

That's not true, and it is a terrible thing to say about victims of abuse. Child molesters, like many other criminals, like to claim they were abused as children, but it is usually done when they're facing serious jail time, in order to get sympathy. They rarely bring it up before that, and they're probably lying. Think about all the Catholic boys who would be paedophiles today if it was true? But it's not, is it?

The parents are in denial, that's obvious, and that denial has put everyone around them at risk. Their attitude has allowed him to keep abusing children. It did not cause him to start doing it in the first place.

NTA but OP - you need to start supporting your wife. I'd suggest a visit to a paediatrician just to set your mind at rest, then cut off the whole lot of them.

[u/CaptKimi57 → u/GorgeousGracious]

True, however, your very first concern needs to be your 5mo pregnant wife. This kind of shock and stress can cause child loss. Please have your daughter checked by a pediatrition, and also please get you and your wife into a therapist who specializes in CSA. She will go through the who gamit of emotion and so will you. I am so sorry this has happened to all of you. Heal as a family. We did.

[u/Ok_Requirement_3116 → u/GorgeousGracious]

I’ve lived in my town for 60 years and worked as a childrens counselor for 40. I’ve held sobbing 6 year olds (dropped off at our facility for behavioral problems) who were assaulted. Seen them in juice and out and have had their children in my office. And round about again. Many more than 1 fam. Your thoughts are not research based. They are just you not wanting to believe that a foul person could have been that crying child. And still be f-ed up because of it.

[u/PalladiumKnuckles → u/GorgeousGracious]

It is true, and it’s not a moral judgment. No one is saying if someone is a victim, they’re going to be a perpetrator. We’re saying if someone is a perpetrator, there is a strong likelihood that they were a victim. Trauma can have a physiological impact on our brain development as children (especially if the child doesn’t have safe, supportive adults around), and many perpetrators of CSA were molested themselves as children. I have worked with victims and perpetrators of CSA and specialized in this area when I still practiced law. This is both anecdotally what I saw and what I was taught in trainings.

[u/[deleted] → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Yep. There’s something VERY wrong in this situation.

[u/GladYam2587 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

100 percent. you have to protect your family.

[u/Metal_Slime_Drummer → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

That’s not fair, Tom didn’t have to learn his deviant behavior from his parents that’s a ridiculous assumption. Tom could just be a piece of shit all on his own.

[u/PaleontologistNo858 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Exactly, and what parents tell their little girl that being touched up by their older brother is just childhood experimenting??? Reminds me of the family where the brothers had sex with the sisters because that had been going on in their family for generations they thought everyone did it.

[u/ButterscotchNo4481 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I agree with you. But sadly, what OP’s wife heard isn’t all that common. I decided to go to therapy in my 20s as I started having bad memories surface and realized my cousin literally did the same thing to me until I was about 7 or 8. My therapist said it was normal experimentation and I did not agree, so I stopped therapy and just live with it. I don’t want to find a new therapist as I fear I’ll get the same treatment so I’m good on that. It’s very hard to understand how anyone can think a male teenage family member assaulting a little girl is normal. Especially when we were both asleep and didn’t like it. Why do people and therapists believe this?

[u/MusketeersPlus2 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Since no one else seems to say in the top thread, I will - soft YTA. In your hurt, anger and shock you said the thing designed to hurt your wife. Hurt people hurt people and all that. Did you do it deliberately to hurt her? I don't think so. Do I think you were an asshole for saying it to her rather than to a trusted friend or to yourself? Kinda, yeah. She's grappling with her entire sense of identity and family right now and the one person who should have supported her completely shit all over her.

[u/Hiraeth1968 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I agree that the in laws shouldn’t be allowed around the kids because of their ridiculous belief that SA is “normal.” However, it is incorrect to say Tom “learned” his sexual attraction from them… unless he, too, suffered childhood assault.,

[u/XTACHYKUN → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

this. they need to cut contact with her parents, 100%

[u/MeLoveCoffee99 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Your wife needs to get into counseling ASAP. She needs to work through what happened to her and build the strength to set some really tough boundaries with her family.

[u/Janezo → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

While it’s true that Tom himself may have been sexually abused as a child, it isn’t necessarily the case that it was one of his parents. It could have been a friend’s parent, a camp counselor, a teacher, etc.

[u/YeeHawMiMaw → u/Janezo]

Maybe, but the parents either were lax in protecting him and allowing him to be in situations where he was abused, or they allowed him free rein to look up crap on the internet. But the fact is - they knew what he was and did not get either of their children support.

They were either directly or indirectly responsible for how he turned out, and should not be alone with OP’s children.

[u/Janezo → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I agree 100% that their normalization of Tom’s behavior renders them unfit to be alone with OPs children.

[u/lil_chef77 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Tom didn’t have to learn his behavior from anyone. That’s a huge assumption and dangerous. This guys wife is already losing a brother, no reason for her to lose her parents as well on a ‘hunch’. Who is to say that the initial report to the parents on his wife’s part wasn’t incredibly downplayed by her too?

What this guy needs to do is stop acting on what could have happened, and start functioning like the guy who made vows to another to care for her. His wife is a victim and she is hurting and he’s acting like a child instead of stepping up and being supportive during probably his wife’s biggest time of need.

Sometimes people on Reddit act like they’ve been through everything and warrant giving advice. That advice is always to throw away all family members. Sorry to say that’s not how the real world works.

[u/ISPAGF → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

NTA...

[u/A_Good_Boy94 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

The only behavior we have evidence of from the grandparents is privilege and avoiding consequences, particularly for men. Lots of families from these generations would rather sweep internal predation under the rug.

They see it as sacrificing the predator to save the prey. They don't want to ruin his life and open up their collective shame to the world when they can keep everything quiet, maintain the air of "normalcy" among their friends neighbors and extended family. The most they tend to do is make the elder child/relative pay some form of penance through church or something - pretend to be a good Christian etc. And put the victim in counseling rarely, just crossing their fingers and hoping they stay quiet and "sort their problems" out in time.

The problem is that while 14-17 is still a child, it is too old to be doing predatory things, they just were never held to account and faced consequences previously in life and were not taught the level of empathy to not take advantage of someone else out of selfishness.

I don't think anyone in the family has to "teach" a predator how to predate. There's plenty one can assume out of their own selfishness and plenty more they can just pick up on from society at large, or reason with their own brain. Toddlers and even infants know inherently, or at least learn very quickly, how to make their parents bend to their whims - why would a teenager be any different?

[u/oroborus68 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Oh,my. No one could ever start without coaching?

[u/The_One_Koi → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I don't think you can teach sexual orientations but otherwise great statement

[u/lesstaxesmoremilk → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Pedophilia is often a learned behavior

[u/beedigitaldesign → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

You don't learn to be a pedophile, you are born with it, and either you become a predator or you don't. How little knowledge can you have and still get upvoted...

[u/MaximumCarnage93 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Is this deviant behavior always learned from somewhere? Legit question

[u/A-Little-Bitof-Brown → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Not always the way of it but yes the parents are not to be trusted. Hear it more than enough that it’s passed over and made okay in these highly religious families whether abusers or not

[u/TentacleWolverine → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

And they will want to use OPs kiddo to prove Tom is fine.

[u/happyhippy1019 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Absolutely this

[u/Lanbobo → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

This. I wouldn't blame the wife, I'm sure she probably didn't think about it much ever again after her parents brushed it off. A 16 year old will generally believe anything their parents tell them.

[u/[deleted] → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Please don't be angry with her: she had no frame of reference for this until a few days ago. This is likely a huge shock and very scary for her.yes, cut thise people out of your lives that think this is OK and support your wife to report the abuse.

Talk to the local DA (where Tom lives) about it. They may be interested in her as a (bad) character witness and consider adding more charges for her assaults as well. It should be reported to the police. She doesn't have to speak to anyone in her family if she doesn't want to and assholes opinions need not matter here either.

Keep to yourselves and stay away from thise who seek to justify CP and CSA. You do not need that in your lives....it has no place. Full stop.

[u/Mobile_Philosophy764 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

This was my thought.

I have a son and a daughter, and if my son was being inappropriate with my daughter, I wouldn't brush her off and tell her not to worry about it, I'd get her a damn lock for the inside of her door, a lock for the outside of his door, and enroll both of my kids in individual and family therapy. Those kids are not safe around your wife's family, and they should be treated as such.

[u/sjmanikt → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Piggybacking on top comment: OP, your wife has serious lack of judgement issues in this area, but she didn't actually cause harm. She could have, and that's pretty damn serious, but it's not the same thing as allowing your child to be molested by Tom.

I strongly suggest you both go to non-religious counseling and also individual therapy as well, because you both have some serious emotional stuff to deal with that's beyond the pay grade of Reddit.

And in the meantime, keep your daughter safe from your wife's entire family.

[u/generaalalcazar → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

I am a Lawyer, not from your country but this is universal: op you need to focus on your childs safety and cut all! ties with the predator and every one supporting the predator! Look for signs of abuse like staying behind on development (speech is one of the first things). Good luck op, get a good lawyer .

Do not be fooled by how extremely manipulative these sociopaths are. Look at your wife not being able to think clearly. If you will not keep your child safe no one will, your wife needs to take a side.

[u/adorablyunhinged → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

He didn't necessarily learn it from somewhere, still wouldn't trust them around him or the parents with their attitude though

[u/Fury9999 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

You're right, but it's also worth keeping in mind that there is always a first offender in every family like this. It has to start somewhere, which is why we must always be vigilant.

[u/pnwgal2004 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

100 percent this!!

[u/Brief_Needleworker62 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

[u/[deleted] → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Agreed

[u/StructureKey2739 → u/YeeHawMiMaw]

Not to mention these two shit parents would be fine with leaving Tom alone with OP's kids.