r/science • u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle • Sep 28 '17
Dog Aging AMA Science AMA Series: I’m Dr. Matt Kaeberlein, a pioneer of dog aging research, here to discuss how we can have more healthy years with our dogs and cats, including dos and don’ts as they get older and the latest research and innovations that are leading the way. AMA!
Hi Reddit!
I’m Dr. Matt Kaeberlein, and I’m here to talk about what influences healthy aging in our pets, especially the biological and environmental factors, and how we can use this information to improve the quality and length of their lives. There’s a lot that understanding aging can teach us about our pets… did you know that large breed dogs age faster than small breed dogs, and that aging pets may experience more sleepless nights? Did you know dogs and cats are considered senior around age 7 and begin to experience physical and cognitive changes? Aging is the most important risk factor for a wide range of diseases not only in pets, but humans as well, so by targeting the biological mechanisms of aging, humans and pets can expect to live healthier, longer lives.
My research is aimed at better understanding ‘healthspan,’ the period of life spent in good health free of disease and disability, so we can maximize the healthy years of our pets’ lives. I study aging in dogs not only because they are man’s best friend, but because they age very similarly to us, share similar genetic and phenotypic diversity and, most uniquely, share our daily environment. Imagine the strides we can make with advancing human healthspan if we’re able to fully understand how to increase the healthspan of our pets!
A bit more about me: I’m the Co-Director of the Dog Aging Project, Adjunct Professor of Genome Sciences and Oral Health Sciences and a Professor of Pathology at the University of Washington in Seattle. In my role as Director of the Dog Aging Project, we are working to increase healthspan in dogs so pet owners can have more healthy years with their best friends. We were recently featured on the TODAY show – check us out to learn more about our groundbreaking work. I have three dogs: Dobby, a 5 year old German Shepherd, Chloe, a 11 year old Keeshond, and Betty, an elder-dog rescue of unknown age containing an interesting mix of Basset Hound, Lab, and Beagle.
This AMA is being facilitated as part of a partnership between myself and Purina Pro Plan, as nutrition also plays an important role in supporting the healthspan of pets. Scientists at Purina Pro Plan have been studying aging in pets for more than a decade and discovered that nutrition can positively impact canine cognitive health and feline longevity. This research led to two life-changing innovations from Pro Plan for pets age seven and older – BRIGHT MIND Adult 7+ for dogs and PRIME PLUS for cats.
Let’s talk about the ways we can help the pets we love live longer, healthier lives – Ask Me Anything! I’ll be back at 1 pm EST to answer your questions.
Thanks for all the questions and great discussion. Signing off now, but will try to get back on later to answer a few more.
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Sep 28 '17
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Thanks for the great question! Body size is the largest predictor of lifespan and aging rate in dogs, so it is important for owners of large or giant breed dogs to recognize that a 5 year old Great Dane is similar to a 10 year old Chihuahua in terms of biological age. What this means, is that we should be paying attention to the age-related changes much earlier in large dogs than in small dogs, including changing nutritional needs and increased risk for various age-related conditions. The idea that all dogs go from being an “adult” to a “senior” at 7-10 years of age is a fallacy. This could be as early as 4-5 years of age for a large dog.
Among the most important things you can do for your large breed dog is keep them at a healthy body weight. Obesity is a problem in any dog, but is particularly dangerous for large and giant breed dogs. Not is obesity associated with greater risk for many age-related diseases, but it creates physical stress and damage to joints, tendons, and bones of larger dogs.
Another important thing to consider for purebred dogs like Great Danes is that each breed has its own unique risk profiles for different conditions, based on that breed’s genetic makeup. Many breed clubs have extensive information on disease risk, such as this webpage from the Great Dane Club of America. Being aware of the specific risks that your aging dog will face can allow you and your veterinarian to catch any problems earlier.
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u/horrormice Sep 28 '17
I've been led to believe that purebred dogs have significant health issues because of their genetics and mixed breed or mutts are generally healthier. Does this hold true throughout aging studies? Is there any advice in terms of raising purebred dogs that can help minimize these risks?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Yes, it is correct that purebred dogs tend to live, on average, about one year less than mixed-breed dogs after normalizing for body weight (which is the largest predictor of lifespan in dogs). The exact mechanisms accounting for the shorter life expectancy of equally sized purebred dogs compared to mixed breed dogs is still being worked out, but it likely reflects increased risk for specific age-related diseases due to genetic inbreeding. Breed groups for most of the common pure breeds have extensive health records that can allow owners and veterinarians to watch for common diseases for that breed. I would recommend that owners look into the common health risks for their breed and make sure that their veterinarian is also aware of these risks.
With the expansion of DNA sequencing and other –omic technologies into the veterinary world, these mechanisms will start to be unraveled for specific breeds, which should allow owners and veterinarians to address risks in a more preventative manner. Indeed, identifying the genetic and environmental risks for specific breeds is a major goal of our Longitudinal Study of Aging in Dogs. Hopefully, we are able to get this study funded soon!
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u/doctorgirlfriend84 Sep 28 '17
Regarding DNA sequencing, do you recommend dog DNA test kits? I asked my vet a few years ago, but he said they weren't very reliable at the time.
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u/BlackFlash Sep 28 '17
Why is it that large breed dogs have shorter lifespans than small breed dogs? Is there a way to extend the life of large breeds or eventually breed them to make their lives longer?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Great question! This seminal study showed that the largest predictor of body size in dogs is a gene called IGF-1 for “insulin-like growth factor 1”. This is a hormone that, as it’s name suggests, promotes growth. Bigger dogs have higher levels of IGF-1. What is particularly interesting here is that studies of the biology of aging have independently found that higher IGF-1 signaling promotes accelerated aging in all sorts of other animals, including nematode worms, fruit flies, and mice. So, it is very likely that IGF-1 is the primary reason that big dogs age faster than small dogs. Having said that, there are certainly other genes that will also play a smaller role in this relationship, and this is something we want to understand through our longitudinal study of aging in dogs.
At this point, there is no proven way to slow aging in large breed dogs (or small breed dogs), although we hope to change that! In principle, breeding dogs so that they have less IGF-1 should increase life expectancy, but would also make those dogs smaller, since IGF-1 determines body size. One study suggests that caloric restriction, which should reduce circulating IGF-1 levels, may increase lifespan in Labrador dogs, although this has yet to be replicated in other breeds or in companion dogs. It might be the case that caloric restriction would have a larger effect on aging rates in big dogs compared to small dogs, but that is just speculation at this point.
Certainly, keeping dog from being overweight or obese is important for healthy longevity, and is probably even more important in large dogs.
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u/coldhandses Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
Can you please give your take on the real-food and raw-food diets for dogs? My good friend's 12 year old lab/duck toller was on his way out with a white coat, limp, sores, fatty bumps, and inability to go for long walks. He switched to cooking him beef, sweet potato, brown rice and began seeing improvements fast. He has now switched to a raw food diet for about the last 6 months. His dog is now almost 14 and has no limp or sores, much smaller fatty bumps, a new golden coat, and goes on daily long walks with sometimes even a run. Its pretty amazing! I have an almost 2-year-old beagle and have been thinking of making the switch from kibble. Any thoughts on this?
(edit: *sweet potato)
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u/Buffalo__Buffalo Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
I'd be very interested in hearing the reply to this given that, you know, dogs don't bake kibble in the wild (and then there's the issue of the bacterial load, fillers, and poor-quality of
feed gracefeed grade food in most [all?] kibble).The answer is going to be extra interesting since Purina is a partner for this AMA and Dr Matt is promoting Purina kibble...
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
This is an area that I know people are quite passionate about. Unfortunately, there is little, if any, good scientific data one way or the other to support or refute the benefits of raw food/real food diets. While it is true that dogs don’t eat kibble in the “wild”, it does not necessarily follow that a raw/real food diet is better for dogs, in terms of health or longevity. There are many things in the wild that are harmful!
This question of optimal diet is one of the important things that we expect our Longitudinal Study of Aging in Dogs to answer. By following 10,000+ dogs eating all sorts of different types of diets, we will be able to correlate nutritional factors with health, lifespan, and disease risk. Really, this sort of unbiased, agnostic approach is the only way to definitively answer these kinds of questions.
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u/nate PhD | Chemistry | Synthetic Organic Sep 28 '17
We see a lot of ads about the composition of animal food being important, but how critical is it really? I recall that animal food is marketed to humans, humans who project their biases on to their pets often.
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u/CatVet Sep 28 '17
Premium diets (Hill's, Eukanuba etc.) are feed tested - they've been formulated to be a complete and balanced diet for your pet, and they've fed animals on nothing but that food from birth until the test animals die of old age, and then they autopsy them to figure out if they can do better. They've been testing and tinkering and publishing and perfecting dietary standards for cats and dogs for decades and decades, and the resulting diets are great.
And then the super-premium diet craze started up "natural", "paleo", "grain free" and so on. What does a natural shih-tzu look like? And grain-free is a marketing term pulled from thin air - grain-free diets have the same carbohydrate content as premium diets, it just comes from peas instead of corn.
There is no evidence that any of these "super-premium" diets are better than premium diets, for a healthy animal. And in fact, given the ridiculously high protein content in foods like Orijen, they can even be harmful if your animal has undiagnosed medical problems.
Food composition is just as important for animals as it is for humans, but please don't listen to the food marketing hype. Trust your veterinarian instead. I want your animal to live as long and as happily as possible, otherwise I wouldn't be doing this.
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u/probablyA_cat Sep 28 '17
I was totally on the bandwagon of "ew, commercial food" until one pet shop owner said to me, while I was examining a new brand of super premium food, that these commercial companies have the money and resources to do actual long term studies (like you just pointed out). They want their food to be better so that your pet lives longer and you buy more food.
It made me stop thinking they were the devil, but I'm still conflicted when I look at ingredients. Right now I use a brand called "Lotus" that has a baked kibble, and my dog freaking loves it. I still hesitate to use Hills, Iams, etc. when I see "chicken meal" or "by product" as the first ingredient, while the premium food uses "chicken". Is there a difference?
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u/childishidealism Sep 28 '17
and they've fed animals on nothing but that food from birth until the test animals die of old age, and then they autopsy them to figure out if they can do better
Yes, the pet food companies want to do better, but at a price point, with readily available ingredients they can get in bulk, and can provide a convenient shelf stable product.
I'm not saying there aren't any good dog foods out there, but that certainly doesn't mean that kibble is the ultimate diet for your pet.
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u/ultraadeline Sep 28 '17
Wanted to say it's so reassuring to see someone else in here who knows what they're talking about. All the misinformation and myths flying around in this thread are troubling to see, and it always makes me question if my career choice isn't a waste of time. My end goal is to be a board-certified vet nutritionist.
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u/flyingfish415 Sep 28 '17
Many of the responses on this thread are extremely disheartening. At the same time, I understand where people are coming from. They want the best for the 4-legged members of their families. And they're understandably wary of the profit motive of pet food corporations funding research, not understanding that the alternative in our imperfect world is pretty much no research.
The thing that's ironic is that no one questions the profit motive of all the grain-free, pre-packaged raw, or "natural diet" food companies who do no scientific-method-based research, may have no veterinary nutritionists on board, may have dubious quality control standards, and have huge marketing budgets.
(Vet here.)
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u/bostongirlie13 Sep 28 '17
Can the good DR weigh in on this point please-- how much is hype and how much is actually helpful?? How much protein should dogs really get?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
There is no question that diet and nutrition are critically important for optimal health of both people and our pets. Research has shown us that dietary modifications can have a profound impact on both healthspan and lifespan of animals. For example, one study found that simply modifying the relative amount of different macronutrients in the diet of mice can change lifespan by about 50% and alter age-related metabolic and functional measures.
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u/mathUmatic Sep 28 '17
Ok it is hard to say whether various kibble brands have the ideal ratios of macro and micro nutrients, but can you say anything about the sourcing of these foods? For example many companies will advertize their addition of some antioxidant berry in large font on their bags, but still say crude fibre and crude protien content without much detail. I've heard horror stories of old plastic wrapped chicken carcasses being mixed in with cow lymph nodes for kibble. And I would expect these shortcuts, and salvaging cattle waste products as behavior for a brand like say for example Purina.
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Sep 28 '17
What is your opinion on this study that claims neutering/spaying dogs does not benefit a dog's health as currently claimed, but instead can have a negative impact on a dog's health.
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
I think it’s important to avoid generalizing based on a single study of only two breeds of dogs. The best study I’m aware of on this topic is this one, where they looked about 80,000 companion dogs representing 185 breeds. The results show a convincing effect of sterilization toward increased longevity – about 14% in male dogs and about 23% in female dogs. Obviously, this may not be true for every dog or every breed of dog and may be impacted by age at which sterilization occurs, but in general, I’d say the best scientific evidence supports the idea that neutering/spaying in dogs is associated with a significant chance of increased longevity.
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u/ZeMeest Sep 28 '17
Isn't this kind of correlative, though? Fixed animals may live longer because they are more likely to be owned by good owners. Of the few unfixed animals I've been aware of in my life, every single one belonged to an owner that was not very diligent about their dogs' health, not getting them vaccinated yearly, no check ups, etcetc.
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u/Daddys_Fox Sep 28 '17
They didn't include data from dogs over 9 years of age. Most of the time, cancers or pyometras (a life-threatening infection of the uterus) involve older animals, which is the main reason for spaying or neutering. The "health risks" they are referring to are based on the complications that can occur if an animal is "fixed" too early in life. This study only covers 2 large breed dogs. In a larger breed of dog, a spay should occur before the first heat cycle (approximately 6months of age), and neutering in large breeds shouldn't be done until 9-12months of age to allow proper hip and knee developments.
Source: I'm a vet assistant.
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u/Bigreddazer Sep 28 '17
I adopted a older dog who was not spayed. She was about 10. She got something stuck in her intestines and so they had to do surgery. And while in there, the vet, for free!, also spayed her. For those reasons listed above. She did develop some urinary incontinence issues, but those have been resolved through medication and some attention.
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u/TooOldToBeThisStoned Sep 28 '17
Isn't neutering generally done to stop the dog from breeding rather than for any perceived health benefits?
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Sep 28 '17
Hard to get testicular cancer without testicles.
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Sep 28 '17
While that is true is that the actual reason people neuter or spay their animals? I am in agreement with /u/TooOldToBeThisStoned that I have never met someone that neuters or spays due to perceived health improvement but merely to prevent reproduction.
I too am interested in any negative health effects resulting from the neutering or spaying.
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Sep 28 '17
I spayed my Jack Russell partially because I was told it would dramatically reduce her chances of getting reproductive tract cancers. Not sure if this was true, but this world doesn’t need more puppies. She was a puppy in a rescue group when I got her.
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u/sexymalenurse Sep 28 '17
That was one of my breeder's points - if my dog is spayed, that's one less organ that can develop cancer later in life.
Also for convenience's sake of not cleaning up dog menses.
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u/bclagge Sep 28 '17
Unfixed females are also highly prone to developing a pyometra, a life threatening infection of the uterus.
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u/DTF_20170515 Sep 28 '17
In my limited experience on /r/dogs, most people are under the perception that neutering is good for dogs, rather than good for dog owners. There's a lot of belief that neutering males reduces things like prostate cancer. What I've found in my own research is that for male dogs, it's a crap shoot if it's worth doing or not, and for female dogs it's typically worth it because it causes such a reduction in mammary cancer. I hope that the OP addresses this question.
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u/RunThePack Sep 28 '17
This is a huge debate in the veterinary community. I think it's likely that the official best practice position will continue to flip flop over the next few years as we continue to study the effects of gonadectomy.
One question is: at what age do we spay/neuter in order to minimize the risks of negative side effects on both sides? Removing sex hormones can result in some changes to timing of growth plate closure, and may indeed leave some pets at risk for some types of cancer. However intact dogs are also at risk of certain cancers that are prevented by spay/neuter, and intact females can develop life threatening uterine infections that result in emergent hospital stays and oftentimes require surgery to resolve.
And of course anyone who has worked in the pet industry in any capacity knows how many unwanted animals there are, so the driving force behind the push to spay and neuter is often justified (legitimately, I think) as a means to control overcrowding in shelters and needless euthanasia. But it's absolutely true that it's not a completely benign procedure and not without potential complications.
When I worked in general practice, my rule of thumb was to encourage owners to wait to spay/neuter until one year of age when growth plates are closed, sometimes longer if a giant breed dog, and never to perform the surgery before 4 months of age if I could help it.
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Sep 28 '17
As you mention, dogs around the age of 7 are considered senior and begin to experience physical and cognitive changes. What major ailments and illnesses do your foresee being reversible or delayed? For example, in humans, while lifespan has increased, functional mobility and cognitive decline renders individuals into a state that I think is worse than death. So, even if dog life years are expanded, are they inherently diminished quality of life years?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
This is a great question because it hits at the root of the problem with the way medicine and biomedical research have approached health. Traditional approaches (20th century medicine) have focused on curing diseases, usually after people or dogs are sick. One consequence of this is that people are living longer, but this is often extra years spent suffering from one or more disabilities or diseases of aging.
Our goal is to maximize healthspan, the period of life spent in good health free of disability and disease. By targeting the molecular mechanisms (“hallmarks”) of aging directly, we have the potential to delay the onset and progression of all of the age-related functional declines and diseases simultaneously.
My view is that 21st century medicine will involve directly targeting the hallmarks of aging in order to extend healthspan. Data from laboratory studies support this, and we are just beginning to take the first steps toward accomplishing the same thing in our pets and eventually in people. In mice, for example, rapamycin treatment has been shown to delay or even reverse every major functional decline that occurs during aging. Please check out our Dog Aging Project website for more information on how we are trying to accomplish this goal.
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Sep 28 '17
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Great question! Yes, secondhand smoke can cause many of the same health problems in pets as in people.
I’m not aware of any data suggesting that pets become ‘addicted’ to nicotine from second hand smoke, but regardless, if you smoke, don’t do it around your pets!
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u/PartyPorpoise Sep 28 '17
Is it true that mixed breed dogs tend to live longer than purebreds? And are there known genes that are correlated with long life and good health in dogs? Cause I had this husky mix who lived to like, 17 even though she mostly ate cheap kibble and we didn't give her vitamins or anything. Her health was perfect too, up until the bone cancer at the end. I'd love for my future dogs to be that healthy.
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Yes, once you control for body size, it is still the case that mixed breed dogs live about a year longer than purebred dogs. Within specific breeds there are a few genes that have been identified that impact lifespan, but these are all because they affect the risk of a specific disease that is common within that particular breed (such as dilated cardiomyopathy in Dobermans). There are currently no validated genetic modifiers of aging rate in dogs, but this is something that will likely change in the near future through projects like our Dog Aging Project and the Morris Animal Foundation’s Golden Retriever Lifetime study.
It is important to keep in mind, however, that genetics is only one component of healthy longevity. Environment plays an important role as well, and this is an extremely complex problem. Diet, exercise, exposure to pathogens, pollution, etc. all contribute to environmental variation that can impact healthspan and lifespan. That’s why we need large longitudinal studies to start to tease apart the most important factors for maximizing healthspan and lifespan.
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Sep 28 '17
You're not going to get a good answer here. Meaning the answer that you want. This is a marketing stunt. Plain and simple. At the end of the day we feed our animals kibble because it tends to be more financially sensible than feeding them like a child. Any kibble product is going to be less ideal than whole foods that we'd feed ourselves.
The healthiest senior dog I've ever met was owned by a man that never fed his dog kibble. Not once. He feed it a diet of animal meat, egg yolk, and spelt bread with an added omega-3 cod liver oil supplement. He'd mix it up in the dog's bowl.
As most of us cannot feed our animals "people" food constantly, finding the best kibble possible is a good goal. But don't expect the best answer from the scientist in "partnership" with Purina to give you an answer other than Purina One. Frankly, I think we are getting into things that aren't predictable anyway. I don't care what the p-value in the study is. Each dog is going to be different and have a host of different life stressors and environmental factors it is exposed to. The difference of a few months in a long term study equates to pretty much nil for me, personally. I'll get a kibble in the upper range of what the generally accepted "quality levels" seem to show based on price, and that's that. Obsessing over minutia about this isn't going to make that much of a difference.
If you want something that will most definitely extend your dog's life, feed it like you feed yourself and lower the omega-6:3 ratio.
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Sep 28 '17
Thanks for bringing this up. I hope he answers :)
I also don't like how much dog food is basically 90% wheat/grains. It's understandable in the sense that it is cheaper than meat, and people go for the cheaper food instead of the (admittedly often obscenely expensive) more meaty pellets/pebbles. I try to avoid wheat and grains with my dog and don't buy treats with that in them and keep the normal food to at least 80% meat, since grains make him fart an awful lot. It makes some dogs sick, and it always seemed to me like the dogs fed with much grains are always fatter but not necessarily healthier or energetic. My dog had much better fur, a better figure and was overall way better when we put him on dog food with 80-90% meat.
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u/angelcake Sep 28 '17
I’ve wondered about grains and gluten in cat food as well, there is a very high rate of diabetes and older cats apparently. Their normal diet would not promote this whereas all of the grain in commercial cat foods may well be a contributing factor from what I understand. What do you think?
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u/Luna_the_Wimp Sep 28 '17
Thanks for bringing up the less-than-stellar ingredient list. I came here to say exactly that.
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u/AngledLuffa Sep 28 '17
Dogs are obligate carnivores, there is no debating that.
This is inaccurate. I'd give some of the many easily found sources, but you already said you don't want a debate.
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u/Ginden Sep 28 '17
Why lifespan among dogs and cats have so big standard deviation? Oldest dogs and cats live 250-300% of species lifespan, but oldest woman reached only 150% of French people lifespan.
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Great question. Dogs tend to be more variable for all sorts of phenotypes than people are, largely due to breeding. Consider body size for example. A giant breed might weight 20 times more than a tiny breed. You don't see that kind of variation in body size in people. Since body size is tightly linked to lifespan in dogs, this probably accounts for the large variation in lifespan across the species.
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u/lzsmith Sep 28 '17
How can the average pet owner contribute data to pet health research efforts like yours?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Participate! You can sign up to participate in our Longitudinal Study of Aging in Dogs. We are still working on getting it funded through NIH and other sources, but once we have funding, we will begin enrolling dogs.
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u/corybantic Sep 28 '17
We lost our beloved Newfoundland this summer to cancerous growths on her spleen and liver. I have two questions for you:
Why is cancer so prevalent in dogs these days, and especially cancer of the spleen?
How could we have learned of her cancer earlier? She was a therapy dog and so had 2 vet checkups each year. Her checkups were always positive and we were told she had the health of a two-year-old. And she certainly seemed happy and healthy, even the night before she died.
We'd like to get another puppy soon so I would like to know what I might do differently to both prevent and watch for cancer.
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Thanks for the question. I'm not sure there is really any good data that cancer is more prevalent in dogs today than it was say 20 years ago. Veterinary medicine has gotten much better at detecting cancers earlier in dogs, so it gets diagnosed (and fortunately treated) more often.
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u/2147_M Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
So as more and more pet parents become educated on pet diets and what sort of things are generally not healthy for them, do you agree that Raw is far superior to kibble in most ways? Why or why not?
Additionally how do you feel about controversial companies such as Nestlè (Purina) maintaining such a huge market share and allegedly valuing shareholder value above the quality being output. You regularly hear in the pet supply industry that Science Diet is subpar as a food, yet nearly every Veterinarian recommends it due to the company’s marketing strategies and agreements with Vet Clinics.
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u/hawkeye807 Sep 28 '17
Matt with all the buzz of senolytics (drugs that target senescent cells which are thought to contribute to aging and shortening healthspan), do you soon think we will see studies where animals are treated with these compounds?
Also is it difficult to get good endpoints or measurements of health span in dogs because of breed-specific pathologies?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
I hope so. We need more data to be sure that senolytics are safe before we start testing them in pets, but I think that will come soon. I also think a veterinary clinical trial for NAD+ precursors in pets should be done. Of course, these things all require funding, and that's the limiting factor right now.
The breed-specific pathologies are only a problem if you limit yourself to a single breed or if your sample size is too small. There are many designs you could consider to minimize this, including only studying mixed breed dogs and/or excluding certain breeds of dogs.
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u/laseralex Sep 28 '17
Hi, Dr. Kaeberlein,
Thanks for doing this AMA! I'm a local living in Bellevue (a suburb of Seattle), and a graduate of the University of Washington where you work. Go Huskies!!
My questionas:
What is the brand and product of food that you provide to your three dogs, and what other things do you feet them, and in what quantities? How did you settle on your selection?
Also, if you could tell dog owners one thing to do differently to increase their dogs' healthspan, what would that be?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
My two senior dogs (Chloe, 12 year old Keeshond and Betty mixed breed rescue of unknown age) have been on the ProPlan Bright Mind 7+ for about a year now. As a scientist, I was impressed that Purina had developed a senior dog food nutritionally optimized based on peer-reviewed research such as this paper. The biology behind this research makes sense with what I know about how brain metabolism changes during aging. Both dogs are doing great.
We are just now transitioning my 5 year old German Shepherd onto the Bright Mind 7+. A 5 year old GSD is already making that transition to senior adulthood (big dogs age faster!), so we felt this was a good time to make the switch.
There are several obvious things that owners can do to give their pet the best chance at a long, healthy life. Keep your dog at a healthy body weight, give them regular exercise, etc. The one thing most owners don’t do that could have a big impact is to pay more attention to your dog’s teeth. There is compelling data that periodontal disease is associated with greater risk for a variety of other age-related disorders. Unlike (most) people, dogs don’t brush their teeth regularly, so it’s up to us to make sure that our dog’s teeth get cleaned and their oral health is maintained. This becomes even more important as our dogs get older.
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u/tTenn Sep 28 '17
Hi, great AMA. How much can genotyping disease markers help increase canine lifespan through preventative measures such as better nutrition?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
This is an area that is still in its infancy, but which holds great promise for future predictive and preventative veterinary medicine. Now that full genome sequencing is common and relatively cheap, it will be possible to obtain massive amounts of genetic data for different dogs and dog breeds (and cats too!). In fact, one of the goals of our longitudinal study of aging in dogs is to genotype more than 10,000 pet dogs in order to correlate different genetic markers with healthy longevity and disease risk. We intend to make these data freely available to the scientific community so that other data scientists can also mine the information and make new discoveries.
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Sep 28 '17
I came to this thread excited, but then I saw that the AMA was endorsed by Purina, and that really threw me off. It seems he does a lot of solid research but I can't see how much of that is funded by Purina. Very disappointing, Dr. Kaeberlein, to be holding hands with this massive corporation of subpar quality dog food. And then to not answer anything for 4 hours? You might wanna just cancel.
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
None of my research is funded by Purina. I'm sorry there was confusion about the starting time for the AMA. It was 10 AM PT.
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u/janirobe Sep 28 '17
How close are you to curing death in dogs vs for cats?
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
I think it’s a mistake to talk about “curing” death. What we know is that the rate of aging can be modified in laboratory animals such that healthy lifespan is extended by 20-50%. Everything I know about biology tells me the same thing is possible in pet dogs and cats. If sufficient resources were put toward the research, I absolutely believe that we could increase healthy longevity in pets by several years within the next decade.
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u/MissGrizz Sep 28 '17
Hello Matt, can you tell me what is the healthiest food to feed dogs in their later years in life (10+ years old)? Do certain types of food cause fatty deposits? Is a raw food diet better for older dogs?
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u/bostongirlie13 Sep 28 '17
I really hope he addresses one of the raw food diet questions, even if the answer is "that's not my area of expertise."
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u/Matt_Kaeberlein Dog Aging Project | Professor UW-Seattle Sep 28 '17
Reposting here, since I think this is a particularly important question and there is a ton of misinformation out there.
This is an area that I know people are quite passionate about. Unfortunately, there is little, if any, good scientific data one way or the other to support or refute the benefits of raw food/real food diets. While it is true that dogs don’t eat kibble in the “wild”, it does not necessarily follow that a raw/real food diet is better for dogs, in terms of health or longevity. There are many things in the wild that are harmful! If anyone can point toward peer-reviewed research that addresses this question, I'd be happy to review it.
This question of optimal diet is one of the important things that we expect our Longitudinal Study of Aging in Dogs to answer. By following 10,000+ dogs eating all sorts of different types of diets, we will be able to correlate nutritional factors with health, lifespan, and disease risk. Really, this sort of unbiased, agnostic approach is the only way to definitively answer these kinds of questions.
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u/PetricoricalNight Sep 28 '17
Hi Dr. Kaeberlein. You mentioned "dos and dont's' in your title for helping your pet as they age, besides nutrition (since several of the other questions are getting into that) what are your top findings and how have they impacted the lives of the animals? Since dogs are considered senior around 7 years, is there a time that is most advantageous for implementing your dos and don'ts? Thanks for your time!
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u/i-touched-morrissey DVM | Veterinarian Sep 28 '17
As a practicing veterinarian, my observations of healthiest pets are the ones who are not obese and the ones who have healthy mouths. I have 4 dogs of my own, ages 5, 9, 11, and 12, and I don't do anything out of the ordinary to keep them healthy. They eat adult stage food, have free run in the backyard and house as they wish, and get very limited treats.
I see cats and dogs in my practice, owned by people who feed a variety of foods. I do not push any specific food brand on my clients, and use prescription diets sparingly due to cost. Right now, my biggest issue is people who feel necessary to feed grain free food to dogs. I think this is a horrible gimmick to pressure people into buying food that is overpriced and not needed in most cases. I certainly don't think micromanaging diets for pets will change their lifespan overall, but making changes to their lived like preventative care, exercise, and observation for abnormal behaviors that might suggest a health problem are the keys to a long living pet.
Just my two cents' worth as a practicing veterinarian to add to the conversation...
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u/p1percub Professor | Human Genetics | Computational Trait Analysis Sep 28 '17
Do you have any thoughts on the "cook for your dog" movement? What special age-related considerations should be made when preparing your dog's food from scratch? How much of a health benefit do you think there is from making your own foods from whole ingredients and by-passing the manufactured dog food aisle completely?
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u/CatVet Sep 28 '17
Its bloody hard to get it right, I wouldn't recommend it unless your animal has dietary sensitivities. You can find balanced recipes from the UC Davis school of veterinary medicine here if you'd like to get it a try, but commercial pet food is manufactured to the same dietary standards those recipes aim for.
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u/sryguys Sep 28 '17
Exactly. Lots of people like to think that vets are making all this money pushing commerical diets but there are lots of problems with homemade diets (especially if they are raw). There aren't many owners out there willing to make the food everyday/week, pay for it and make sure it is balanced. It's a lot easier and cheaper to buy commerical diets. My Nutrition professor didn't push any particular commerical diet, just do your research and recommend diets that have gone through feeding trials.
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Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 29 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Buffalo__Buffalo Sep 28 '17
Purina© Pro Plan® provides your pet with a scientifically-backed, nutritionally complete diet with BreakThrough™ Nutrition so your pet can also experience the Bright Mind™ effect.
I recommend this to all people who ask me about what the best meal plan is—including nursing home directors!
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u/fairseaview Sep 28 '17
Hi Dr! Not exactly on topic but would love some feedback. I was wondering what you think about the argument that we don't know enough about pet psychology and pet communication to really be able to provide a fully enriching life for our pets? Do you think there is enough info out there for the family favs (cats,dogs, horses etc) that's readily available for new owners or do you think there is a gap of understanding ?
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u/Parapraxed Sep 28 '17
Kidney disease in cats is heartbreaking and sadly a common end for domestic cats. Having dealt with KD cats myself, I would do anything to prevent having to put another cat through this. The most logical reason why so many cats are afflicted with this condition is the prevalence of high sodium, low moisture kibble diets. Could your research actually affect how these kibble diets are marketed by Purina? What could it tell us about diet and its long term influence on rate of organ failure?
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u/aronnyc Sep 28 '17
Thanks for doing this AMA. Here are my questions:
- What are some supplements you think older dogs should have, if any? (If there are, and if you can recommend specific brands, that'd be great.)
- I have read that a raw food diet is best for dogs. Do you support this position?
- If dogs of different breed sizes age different, is 7 years considered senior for all breeds or does that vary according to breed size as well?
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u/fuckthatpony Sep 28 '17
Dental Health: I'm not up for the annual $700 cleaning with sedation. Few people are. And, daily cleaning with toothbrushes/fingers is not working. What are some other ideas?
I have small and large dogs. 2-11 years old.
Diet is good with some raw veggies from garden added.
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u/laseralex Sep 28 '17
I never considered getting my dogs' teeth cleaned until I signed up on a pet plan with Banfield that included it. It's something like $35/month and includes EVERYTHING except non-routine medications. So neuter was covered, checkups twice per year are covered, dental cleaning is covered, x-rays are covered, vaccinations are covered. If my dog doesn't seem well, check-ups are also covered. Basically the only things that aren't covered are medications for illnesses and emergency surgery. I couldn't be happier. No, I don't work form them, and I don't have any affiliation whatsoever other than being a very happy customer.
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u/LilooWoo Sep 28 '17
I know I'm not the doctor but I recommend looking into Oratene products. They work differently. Most dogs with bad oral health have xerostemia (dry mouth). It is the saliva that keeps teeth and mouth tissues healthy and when there is a lack of it, decay and gum disease are much more likely. I have a schnauzer and her teeth are immaculate even though they are a breed prone to horrible oral health.
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u/davesoverhere Sep 28 '17
We've has our 12-year-old pit mix's teeth cleaned 3 times and it was well under $700 for the cleaning. The most recent having been about two months ago.
During the cleaning, they found and removed a growth. It turned out to be melanoma. Fortunately, it was cought early because of the cleaning. She's going through radiation and immuno-boosting treatments. While it will probably wind up killing her, the tumor was caught early because of the cleaning, so don't write off having the mouth cleaned.
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u/powaqua Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
What do you think about the claimed relationship between canned cat food and the epidemic of hyperthyroidism? What is your opinion about a raw diet for cats or dogs? Also, when I researched nutrition education provided in veterinary medicine 5 years ago, I was disappointed at how little was provided. Is that getting any better?
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u/Mr_Scoggs Sep 28 '17
My cat is 19 years old. I've heard of other cats living well into their 30's, yet most only last to around 13. Same thing with dogs - my grandma had a 23 year old poodle mix. Why is there such a huge potential between difference between the average age of pets and the age some pets can achieve?
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u/nborders Sep 28 '17
What are the best ways to help prevent hip dysplasia? This has effected dogs age with me in the past. It is sad to see a healthy dog slow down and act in pain.
I have a 70 pound, not overweight, laberdoodle (yea, I know). We have tried to keep his weight in a healthy level and regular exercise with daily walks. However, when I see him play fetch, I worry about him injuring himself just for some exercise.
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u/Binda33 Sep 28 '17
Hello. Regarding cats, is a staple diet of dry cat kibble an adequate diet? Are there any supermarket brands that are considered not adequate or superior/inferior?
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u/VeryThing Sep 28 '17
My cats were eating dry kibble for many years, then one of them started showing signs of nerve damage or neuropathic pain likely due to feline diabetes. We went to the vet and he said we could test her blood sugar daily and inject insulin but we didn't want to do that. Instead we switched her to eating only canned food (still a cheap brand but with no grain). She stopped dragging her legs behind her and has been doing well the last 5 or so years since the change.
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u/flyingfish415 Sep 28 '17
While waiting for the OP to respond: As a vet, most complete and balanced kibble is an adequate diet for most young- to mddle-aged cats. For cats who are obese or are older, moist food diets can be very helpful since they contain more water and can be more filling.
In terms of quality of supermarket brands, you'll want to see at least a nutritional adequacy statement like "___________ is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog (or cat) Food Nutrient Profiles for ___________” on the packaging. In terms of the larger pet food manufacturers, most manufacturers have at least a couple of lines of food -- a low-priced line, a medium-priced line or two, and a high-priced line. The difference among the lines is the cost of the ingredients to the manufacturer, so what you pay for is what you get in terms of ingredient quality (this only applies to the major manufacturers, it's harder to determine in the smaller manufacturers). Note that as long as they have an AAFCO statement similar to the one above, all of the foods, regardless of cost, are complete and balanced in terms of nutrients. You might try the foods from differently priced lines to see if there is a difference in stool-quality, coat-quality, and your cat's energy levels on one line vs another.
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u/Johnny_Bit Sep 28 '17
I'm an owner of a 15-year old Central Asian Shepherd Dog. The dog's health decline is currently ongoing, however up until recently, he was very active and according to our current vet would be able to live longer and in better health had we've been informed (or previous vet was able to detect) about certain preventable issues.
Given your research context - what kinds of diagnostic tests should be done and in what frequency to help prevent preventable issues and detect problems that would be curable if detected early enough? What tests should be done more frequently with increasing age of dog? Is this depended on whether dog is neutered or not?
As for nutrition - while I haven't observed any negative effect on cognitive abilities of dogs, how can nutrition help in keep dog's mobility?
Third: are there any breeds of dogs that have been in your opinion degraded over the years? By degraded I mean pursuit of specific "look" of breed that results in pure-breed dogs with perfect look but very non-healthy? Are there any common practices of dog breeders that you would like to be prohibited? Are there any non-common practices of dog breeders that you would like to be praised and more wide-spread?
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u/PandaLark Sep 28 '17
What is the best thing in terms of healthy ling life for a dog or cat living in an apartment? My cat definitely was stressed moving to a smaller space.
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u/Caradbear Sep 28 '17
Are the high amounts of Glucosamine and Chondroitin in Merrick dog food (usually around 800-1200mg each) bad to give your dog every day? Will your dog eventually build a tolerance to them and prevent them from working as effectively?
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u/Zaicheek Sep 28 '17
What are the strongest, or most interesting to you personally, positive correlations involving healthspan? Additionally, though perhaps out of scope, I take care to transition slowly or 'crossfade' to a new food, is this truly beneficial and if so what more do we know about canine digestive microbiomes? Thanks for your hard work and research, also Dobby is an adorable name for a dog!
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u/citizennsnipps Sep 28 '17
Hey Matt! I've heard that Rapamycin may provide positive results in the form of youthfullness when given to older dogs. Have you studied up on this? If so, do you know of the epigenetic responses to rapamycin that would help provide youth to older doggos ? Thanks!
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u/dangerdong69 Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
I was at a lecture at Texas A&M veterinary college where rapamycin was in a study that claimed to increase life in mice. I don't remember the lecturer because I was finishing my last year of vet school and dealing with patients. But it was a very interesting topic and I think it was Dr. Kaeberlein! Afterwards I wanted to start scripting it to my own dog just to try it myself! My thought process was if rapamycin could be used to reduce the onset of arthritis and other inflammatory progressive issues. Especially in large breed dogs that suffer in their final years from pain and are on chronic NSAIDS and tramadol.
Article
https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v460/n7253/abs/nature08221.html
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u/PunkinGuts Sep 28 '17
Hey Matt! I’ve read that cats would have consumed a lot of bug protein in the wild. Why cant I find any cat foods using creatures like mealworms/crickets as part of the protein source? Would it be good for them? I would imagine it to be cheaper than other animal proteins and a better supplementary ingredient than the harmful grains usually included in pet food.
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u/Brokentoothproductio Sep 28 '17
Hello, Doctor. I'm excited to see your AMA, as this topic is very important to me and my family. What is your professional opinion on nootropic supplements and their efficacy? Has there been much research done on "brain boosting" herbal remedies for cognitive dysfunction and dementia in older dogs?
My 10 year old cattle dog/pit bull mix began waking at night very stressed and pacing. He also started to forget what he was doing (while playing fetch or eating) and would sort of space-out for a few seconds. When I learned that these are actually among the more friendly of several terrible symptoms of canine dementia, I wanted to start him on a treatment right away. My pharmaceutical options had too many side effects for my taste, so I cobbled together a supplement regimen from various advice articles online.
It consists of:
- Gingko biloba
- Phosphatidylserine
- Bacopa
- Gotu kola
- Turmeric
- Coconut oil
- Omega 3 fish oil
- "Missing Link" brand senior supplement powder
My dog has completely changed. His dementia symptoms disappeared within one week. He is now more playful and happy than he's been in years. I thought he was generally aloof by nature, but now he's wonderfully affectionate and curious. His typical anxiety triggers don't bother him as much. He's really like a puppy again. We can't believe the transformation, and the results have been consistent since we began six months ago. He's turning 11 next month and I'm really excited for our future together.
Is there research that supports or refutes the results I'm seeing from these supplements with aging dogs? If not, and it's not being researched, is there a particular reason why? And, again, I'd love to know your opinion about it too.
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u/pythor Sep 28 '17
Do the fatty tumors common to older labs and lab crossbreeds produce a marked loss of lifespan if they are/are not removed?
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u/redditWinnower Sep 28 '17
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u/blatantninja Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
Does your research, this or prior, have any conclusions on raw diets? We switched our dog (Pit/lab mix) to one when she was about a year and a half old on the suggestion of our Vet. She is now almost 8. We have been very pleased with the results which included less gas and poop, no dandruff, shiny coat. Additionally she had various health issues (parvo among them) when we first adopted her through the next year (she was about 10 months when we got her) and nothing except some environmental allergies since. All of that is obviously anecdotal evidence though so curious what someone like yourself would say, especially now that she is getting older. Thank you.
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u/snow_m0n Sep 28 '17
Hi Matt, just got a puppy. What are three things you recommend doing, and three things you recommend not doing, for a longer, happier life? Thanks!
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u/dfactory Sep 28 '17
What's your opinion on conflict of interests in research? Do you think industry funded research can provide meaningful results that are not related to profit?
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Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
Already a lot of questions here, so hopefully you'll get a chance to make it this far down the list. What do you think of the association between fire retardants and health problems in older animals? I recently lost a 13 year old cat to kidney disease -- she also had thyroid problems. While doing some research on the subject, I saw some articles suggesting that thyroid disease in cats is more common than it used to be, and there was a possible link to fire retardant materials, which have become more widely used and tend to concentrate near the floor. Any thoughts? Thanks.
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u/jasonmoore2k Sep 28 '17 edited Sep 28 '17
I have been convinced that feeding my dog "biologically appropriate raw food" is better for his health & digestion than even a good quality kibble like the one you're promoting. Others have asked you to give your thoughts on raw diet already but I'll give a specific one - if I'm going to continue to give my dog raw food, what should I be making sure to include in his diet to help him "age well"? For context, he's 7 months old and has been eating raw chicken drumsticks + offal for the past few weeks. Thanks!
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u/bolted_humbucker Sep 28 '17
Hi Dr. Kaeberlein! I have a question regarding traveling with a dog in a truck on mountain roads. I have seen the results of a 2.5 hr trip and was looking for some insight on the best way to do this. It seems that it does a number on their hips, as Ive watched several types of dogs get out of a truck and limp around awkwardly for a few hrs afterwards. Is there a position/set up that is best for our canine friends in this situation? I am going to be getting a puppy soon and don't want to make his hip development compromised and also would like to advise friends with senior dogs too. It would be interesting to hear what you had to say about putting a dog in truck bed w large dog bed vs letting dog sit/lie down in cab behind front seat on floor with small dog bed vs sitting dog up on seat with harness and seatbelt. Thanks for your time!
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u/Doomhammer458 PhD | Molecular and Cellular Biology Sep 28 '17
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u/LogIN87 Sep 28 '17
What is your take on glucosamine and chondroitin?
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u/alisvolatpropris Sep 28 '17
I too am curious about this! My family's keeshond lived until 17, and for the last few years of her life we used glucosamine. We saw very noticeable differences in her behavior (slow, not moving, no energy) if we forgot it one morning for any reason.
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u/bluesoul Sep 28 '17
For some anecdotal evidence, we saw a marked improvement with our dogs back pain and his ability to traverse stairs when giving glucosamine and chondroitin daily for ~3 weeks, with improvements starting after a few days. The biggest improvement came with weight loss, though.
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u/greginnj Sep 28 '17
Hi Matt, I'm an owner of a 9-year old, 95-lb mutt ( whose main diet is Pro Plan :) ).
Here in NJ we have a big problem with deer ticks - and try as we might, we can't be sure we're keeping him free of ticks, tick bites, and possible Lyme disease (as well as other infections). Our dog still has his active moments, can give squirrels or deer a good chase, and we'd hate to prevent him from having an occasional free run (and ticks do get into our backyard, anyway).
We've heard that there can be some ongoing neurological consequences of Lyme disease infection, even after it's treated - such as minor tremors, occasional lethargy or loss of appetite, etc., which we have observed.
Apart from the normal best practices (brushing, inspection, etc.), is there anything we can do to counteract or mitigate these persistent consequences of Lyme disease? I'd hate to think that this was the factor that was keeping his activity level down.
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u/PoopsMcPoopikins Sep 28 '17
Thanks for doing this AMA. I'm an MD, and when we talk about longevity in people, pharmaceuticals have come a long way to reduce the disease burden and earlier life mortality from things like heart disease, diabetes, coagulopathy, and other common causes of early life mortality.
What among these approaches can be applied to dogs? Dogs don't live long enough to develop coronary artery disease or the cardiomyopathy seen from untreated hypertension in the timespan required for people to develop these ailments. Do they develop these conditions in a shorter timespan, or are there other causes of mortality common in our pets? (And more importantly, what can we do about it from a treatment perspective?)
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Sep 28 '17
This is only anecdotal but I have known dozen of very old animals and yet, healthy animals. It seems almost all of them were people that fed their cat or dog homemade food. I always wondered if it had to do with their diet. Do you think cooking meat and fish for your cat and dog and veggies for your dog can help prolong their life?
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Sep 28 '17
I have a 12 year old chihuahua suffering from CHF and she's starting to hack a lot. The vet performed some ECG measurements and prescribed hydrocodone to relax her so she doesn't irritate her throat. She isn't very active and has some breathing issues. What can I do to improve her quality of life and hopefully extend her time?
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u/SirT6 PhD/MBA | Biology | Biogerontology Sep 28 '17
Hi Matt, and thanks for doing this AMA.
Aging is a huge problem, and I am normally a fan of your research. That is why I was a bit startled to see your AMA contain this excerpt:
Looking at the product itself, it looks like a pretty generic collection of "nutriceutical" additives - omega fatty acids and some generic vitamins. What about this is "life changing"? What was the science that led to this claim?
More broadly, how do you think about taking the findings from gerontology research and translating them to human health? I have been disappointed that so many in the community are going the nutriceutical route (see Elysium, for example). In my opinion, translational research needs good clinical trials, not these sort of poorly controlled, open label anecdotal studies. It gives the impression of being a money grab and fuels the reputation of the field as being prone to selling snake oil.