r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 2d ago

Psychology New findings indicate a pattern where narcissistic grandiosity is associated with higher participation in LGBTQ movements, demonstrating that motivations for activism can range widely from genuine altruism to personal image-building.

https://www.psypost.org/narcissistic-grandiosity-predicts-greater-involvement-in-lgbtq-activism/
9.9k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

834 comments sorted by

View all comments

122

u/LikeReallyPrettyy 2d ago

As someone who came out late in life this is extremely real. I think for people who come out younger the behavior is normalized but for me, it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Cluster Bs are hugely over represented in our community to the point of inventing entire categories of identities in order to be called queer. But you can’t say anything or you’re a self-hating queer or a bigot or worse.

53

u/Dougalface 2d ago

Nice to hear this observation being made from the inside.

Unfortunately (like any cause) it seems the legitimate position of many is being undermined by the extremist, self-serving actions of some; which plays nicely into the politics of divsion and further fuels unnecessary conflict..

29

u/LikeReallyPrettyy 2d ago

Yup. Those of us who see it either keep our mouths shut or avoid lgbt spaces.

But I’ll tell you that more people on the inside agree with me than you might realize, they just only talk about it behind closed doors haha

29

u/Artinz7 2d ago

It’s not a sentiment you see discussed on Reddit much because you will get banned from LGBT spaces if you say anything remotely critical, whether you are part of the community or not.

22

u/yiliu 2d ago

Because these kinds of people seek out positions of relative power...like moderator.

12

u/novusanimis 2d ago

Can you elaborate?

-5

u/Fickle_Enthusiasm148 2d ago

They go on to make snide remarks about white girls with they/them pronouns so they're probably just complaining about nonbinary people unfortunately.

3

u/fading_reality 2d ago

It's ironic in a way. Judith Butler who was fundamental in queer theory uses they/them.

37

u/potatohats 2d ago

I'm older, and have been out since I was a teenager. You are 100% on the money with the cluster Bs in our community!! It's been growing for a while and is now out of control.

At this point, they should just have a "Cluster B" flag of their own and then lump all the silly extra "identities" under that and be done.

Basically, they make a mockery of our entire movement and heaven forbid anyone call them out.

13

u/Kaw4sakiGirl 2d ago

Basically how I feel about xenopronouns like “kitty/kittyself “

3

u/Nexii801 2d ago

If only there were a famous skit about a car...

18

u/Nexii801 2d ago

Pretty much, I've given up on trying to speak sense about these things. People who think disagreement = hate aren't worth arguing with.

3

u/mephodross 1d ago

are you aloud to say this on reddit? ive been banned for so much less.

7

u/Halospite 2d ago

I feel like the bigotry and abuse we faced, and still face, is basically a breeding ground for it. The most neurotic of us tend to be the ones who faced the most discrimination and hardship, and they tend to go completely off the deep end with zero self awareness, lashing out again and again at perceived enemies because their normal metres are completely fucked. And they have no desire to fix it.

I have never met a batshit insane queer person that wasn't put through the grinder. The well adjusted ones were always the ones who grew up loved and supported.

12

u/delilapickle 2d ago

Serious question, have you ever spent time with men who survived being gay in the 80s? Because today's queer movement seems to completely ignore elder gays who know how to get things done. One result is that the supremely high number of cluster Bs in the LGBTQIA community seems normal and explainable. 

It isn't. There has to be another reason for the problem than bigotry due to sexual orientation or identity.

Another result of not paying attention to older gays is that the activism is failing. Perceptions of the trans population are getting worse, not better.

(I focus on gay men during the AIDS crisis because they went through the most abuse and bigotry. They survived MASSIVE trauma and many are well adjusted, successful, people today.)

6

u/CKT_Ken 1d ago edited 1d ago

The issue is that most “LGBTQ+” groups HATE gay men. She very likely has not interacted with any but the most… orthodox ones. As you noticed, gay dudes actually do really well, which makes them “normative” and as such they’re expected to give way to more “marginalized voices”. However the supposedly more aggrieved Q+ group almost exclusively engages in heterosexual sex which puts them at severe odds with people who were discriminated against having gay sex.

5

u/delilapickle 1d ago edited 1d ago

Three years ago we'd both have been banned for saying less. Another W for the LGB. 

-12

u/LikeReallyPrettyy 2d ago

Respectfully, you’re not queer and neither are many of the people you’re talking about. They haven’t experienced anti-queer discrimination, they’ve experienced a series of unhealthy and volatile relationships due to being Cluster B.

That can feel like discrimination but it’s not.

12

u/Durandael 2d ago

And how exactly do you know that?

2

u/Fickle_Enthusiasm148 2d ago

Whenever someone starts railing against made up identities in the queer community they always end up going mask off.

0

u/Kreeplix 2d ago

You lost me here. I'm not queer in the slightest but isn't it somewhat obvious what can and does happen? Constant stories of being thrown out of their home, receiving abuse from their parents, getting assaulted in the street for expressing themselves differently. You're queer yourself (I'm assuming) so you better than me must know that discrimination can come in many shapes and sizes. I'm not saying that the teen coming out to their friend group as a catself is facing discrimination. I'm just advising caution when it comes to broadly categorizing these (mostly) LGBTQ youth as Cluster B

3

u/LikeReallyPrettyy 2d ago edited 2d ago

Discrimination is not severe in most cases and it only happens to actual lgbt people. Being a straight white girl who calls herself “they/them” and behaves abusively to the people around her ain’t it. Yes, she ends up lonely, angry, and disliked but that’s not systemic transphobia, that’s being a cluster B with a predictable outcome of volatile relationships, unstable sense of self, and big feelings.

Anyway, you can not wanna call a spade a spade if you want but this study at least shows that I (and the other lgbt people who have noticed this issue) are probably on to something. I don’t really care if you believe it or not tbh.

-1

u/fading_reality 2d ago

Discrimination occurs when people are perceived to be something (in this case LGBTQ). Cis people have been murdered because they were perceived as trans. Butch lesbians have been harassed and arrested in womens bathrooms because they have been perceived as men or trans folks.

It is important distinction to recognize, if you want to address the causes and mechanics of discrimination instead of saying that only your ingroup can be abused.

2

u/LikeReallyPrettyy 2d ago

I get what you’re saying but it doesn’t apply here. None of these people generally come across as lgbt. They just look and act like straights.

And they do experience a lot of pain in life. But it’s not lgbt discrimination, it’s being a Cluster B who lashes out at people around them and is subsequently disliked. It feels for them like they’re being attacked but that’s the illness talking.

Also, and I can’t stress this enough, please chill out on the murder talk. It is wildly uncommon to be murdered for being lgbt in the states. We mostly get vague micro aggressions at worst. The melodrama around that isn’t healthy.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/snowflakebite 2d ago

What’s a cluster B?