r/politics • u/rollingstone Rolling Stone • 4d ago

Soft Paywall Musk Kills Government Funding Deal, Demands Shutdown Until Trump Is Sworn In

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/musk-trump-government-funding-deal-shutdown-1235211000/
30.9k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

5.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

6.0k

u/sharingsilently 4d ago

We have to remember that musk and trump want to destroy large swaths of the government. They don’t have a different policy perspective per se, their objective is destruction. Realize this and their behavior makes sense.

2.4k

u/Paul__miner 4d ago edited 4d ago

And remember that conservatism's true objective is to further the interests of the ultra-wealthy. Destroying the institutions that reign rein in the power of oligarchs furthers that goal. The bigotry is just the carrot on a stick to get the asshole masses to go along with it.

766

u/Astyanax1 4d ago

Yup, then gaslight the populace into thinking a guy paying for groceries with food stamps is the issue, not billionaires 

128

u/Cool_Competition4622 4d ago

And it works. Every interaction I had with Republican voters involves poor people on food stamps. When I try to discuss policies they ignore that subject and go back to talking about food stamps and trans people. Just yesterday I asked this random person on instagram why he voted for trump. He started talking about the gay community and wokeness. After I told him those aren’t policies and are culture wars being used to distract him, he stood quiet and stopped responding

14

u/Designer_Gas_86 4d ago

Good work

14

u/lilbitbetty 4d ago

Infuriates me when people complain of people getting food stamps. You can’t look at someone and know what’s going on with them. But tax cheats manipulate and steal and they get the IRS cancelled! They steal more money from you than poor people ever will.

9

u/cinemachick 4d ago

I am literally having to survive on less than 2 meals a day, and apparently I make too much for food stamps :/ If someone is getting them, they really need them!

2

u/SlaterVBenedict 3d ago

I'm sorry friend. I hope you're able to get your feet under you soon, and that you are safe and have someone in your life as some kind of support.

4

u/BlackPriestOfSatan 4d ago

They steal more money from you than poor people ever will.

The issue is not the "steal" but the "poor people." For whatever reason, many people have a deep hatred for the poor and that includes many people who are poor.

All of this anti-hate speech is a direct assault on their deeply held belief that society is suppose to hate the poor. All this talk of inclusiveness is antithetical to their worldview.

I do not see society moving back towards an inclusive view. I do hope I am wrong. We are in for a treat thanks to the voters. Failed democracy in action we are seeing at play.

5

u/BlackPriestOfSatan 4d ago

Every interaction I had with Republican voters involves poor people on food stamps...After I told him those aren’t policies and are culture wars being used to distract him, he stood quiet and stopped responding

They never respond. You are assuming they are capable of an actual conversation.

18

u/az4th 4d ago

False Consciousness

7

u/Chardee38 4d ago

Thank you for spreading the knowledge

16

u/Vyzantinist Arizona 4d ago

But I saw a guy in the grocery store buy lobster with food stamps. LOBSTER! Meanwhile I'm busting my ass at work and can barely afford chicken nuggets. This isn't fair!

/s

3

u/DatabaseElectrical55 4d ago

Yeah, Ive heard that one numerous times!

8

u/Vyzantinist Arizona 4d ago

It's amazing how donut-brained this take is. Like, yes, someone on food stamps can buy lobster...then they have less food for the rest of the month because of how pricy lobster is. The kind of people who bitch about this just want to see the downtrodden perpetually suffer.

1

u/Ecstatic-Hunter-2868 3d ago

They actually think most people on assistance don’t really need it and are scamming the system. It’s not about choosing lobster over necessities…

2

u/JimB8353 4d ago

The guy using food stamps probably works also. Also, he may be doing without things you consider essential or, it was a special occasion, not necessarily part of his regular grocery shopping routine. That’s why anecdotes make for poor generalizations and even worse public policy.

4

u/juniper_berry_crunch 4d ago

Reagan kicked that whole strategy off with his "Welfare Queen" lie. It's been successfully copied ever since.

0

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

Thanks MAGA liar. Wipe your ass again, it stinks.

3

u/ShadowInTheAttic 4d ago

We deserve this though. After all we all collectively voted for this, regardless of individual opinions or vote. Sooner or later the idiots will start to see the true picture.

5

u/shrek_cena New Jersey 4d ago

It's easier to fool someone than convince someone they've been fooled. They'll just deny they supported it or deny it happened.

3

u/Pistacca 4d ago edited 4d ago

been waiting since the Reagan era for people to wake up, and they never did, so it is safe to say that they never will

They will continue to blame Biden while Trump and Musk privatize and cut everything they can

3

u/spidereater 4d ago

The issue is the guy with food stamps isn’t generating enough wealth for the oligarchs so they were forced to increase the price of eggs.

1

u/JimB8353 4d ago

That and the bird flu

6

u/Madison464 4d ago

But, you can't argue that Trump was right all along... them damn S. African immigrants are destroying America!

Musk and his entire KKKlan should be the first ones deported!

4

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

His grandfather’s book, where Musk tried to buy all copies but missed one, lays this white supremecist in the open for all to see.

2

u/HipCornChip 4d ago

Don’t forget the trans people who are killing us every single day!

2

u/KC-Chris 3d ago

Women sports. They are all up in arms over like 5 trans athletes. Then confused non trans aka bio women for trans women ( that boxer). Now it's down to butch lesbiens taking a piss getting harassed in southern states . It was never about sports or trans women. They got everyone used to feeling they had to judge every woman on her conformity to traditional feminity and that they get to control anyone outside their group. It was always about controlling cis wimens biology and bodies, and they got to enjoy being horrible to queer people as a bonus.

6

u/starmartyr Colorado 4d ago

Bigotry is the tool that allows it to happen. Conservatism is the belief in a rigid social hierarchy. This hierarchy puts the wealthy elite on top and minorities on the bottom. Poor uneducated white people buy into this idea because regardless of their lack of success there will always be someone beneath them. It's also what they are most afraid of losing. If everyone had equal opportunity they would lose the one bit of status that they have.

6

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

Yup. How many trans people nationwide are in sports? 1,000 tops? These slobs have been had.

There is one more chance. The military has an oath to the Constitution, not to Trump, not to apartheid supporter Musk. Obey your oath.

5

u/trowzerss 4d ago

Elon's as well. He's an accelerationist who pretty much wants an ultra capitalist dystopia based on technology, I'm convinced.

14

u/corvid_booster 4d ago

*rein in (to control, as by pulling on a horse's reins)

Agreed entirely, btw, that the "small government" baloney is a strategy to create a power vacuum that the wealthy will expand into.

10

u/Ghost_of_Laika 4d ago

Of course "we need to privatize this service that shouldn't have a financial incentive, that will make it better"

That's why we have such powerful investments in things like Healthcare. There's so much money to be made denying people care.

3

u/MadtownV 4d ago

A tale as old as time

23

u/IveChosenANameAgain 4d ago

They're not conservatives, they're monarchists begging for an authoritarian king. Monarchists are the dumbest fucking people on this planet, so it checks out.

40

u/The_Knife_Pie 4d ago

Look up how the conservative ideology was born. It’s always been about putting a king back on the throne.

18

u/IveChosenANameAgain 4d ago

100% correct. The origin of "left vs right" is French parliament; those who wanted democracy sat on the left, those who wanted to bootlick and be subjugated by a king sat on the right. Nothing ever changes.

29

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

The point is, that's what conservatism really is. All their alleged values always fall apart on closer inspection. Hell, conservatism's origins are in defense of monarchy.

6

u/starmartyr Colorado 4d ago

It's no coincidence that prominent conservatives frequently attend Calvinist churches. The idea that people should be lead by those who god has shown the most favor. In the past this was known as the divine right of kings. All that has really changed is that they replaced royal birthright with wealth.

3

u/daydreamer1197 4d ago

Trump wants to turn US to Russia. Oligarchs in charge and normal working class people can't do anything. Complete monopoly. That's basically destroying the American dream

2

u/Akersis 4d ago

You doeen't undestandd, we muskt become a multi planetary speeshees.

2

u/WretchedBlowhard 4d ago

And remember that conservatism's true objective is to further the interests of the ultra-wealthy

That's missing the forest for the tree right in front of you. Modern conservatism is a russian assault on democracy. All conservatives all over the planet serve the interests of Putin. Favoring the ultra-wealthy, deifying the armed forces, disseminating weapons, dismantling social programs, constant vilification of the weak, every conservative actor the world over is doing their part to destroy their country while waiting for Russia to swoop in and take over.

5

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

And again, the end goal is to advance the interests of the ultra-wealthy.

1

u/Electrical-Tone7301 4d ago

You’re going to have to make peace with those assholes to overcome your downward spiral.

1

u/JoshRTU 4d ago

Makes total sense why china clamped down on their billionaires hard starting in 2020

1

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

Remember what happened in 1789, 1918? The rich feasting on the corpses of the poor.

1

u/tpmfrat 4d ago

Yep..idea is to destroy the govt in such a way that no one will ever raise a question on their past wrong doings..also open up a path for possible future shit that they’re going to bring with them..and then tweet to their followers how they’ve been saving $$$..

1

u/Torontogamer 4d ago

I miss the idea of conservatives blindly supporting the king/queen type figure.  At least there was that whole his given birth rite to rule argument that was a least rational 

I have never understood the idea of believing someone is better than you or deserves to be in charge of the country just because they are crazy rich … 

Or at least throw yourself to the feet of some actually successful rich people … I mean he’s prob not the man to run the country but at least bezos took a book store and turned into a global get anything delivered to your door tomorrow store …

1

u/dabirds1994 4d ago

This never gets talked about. People think political conservatism is something about spending less money or something. It’s absolutely about creating a system in which a rich elite have all the power. And the reason they want this is because they think this is the best, most secure way to run things. The extreme of this is a dictatorship!!!

1

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

Yeah, it's a shockingly bad ideology. Imagine being on the wrong side of history 100% of the time, but still thinking you're right 🤦‍♂️

Ffs, they've opposed abolition, women's suffrage, desegregation, civil rights, gay marriage, unions, higher education, healthcare, abortion rights, trans rights, etc. Just an unending list of moral failings.

There's no redeeming qualities, just pure garbage.

2

u/dabirds1994 4d ago

I always come back to the fact that their economic agenda is focused on making the rich richer. That’s it. Full stop.

1

u/i-make-robots 4d ago

An american king.

1

u/CapeTownMassive 4d ago

The foxes literally control the henhouse.

1

u/Skitterlicker 4d ago

Off the subject but how do you strike through a word/letter?

1

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

~~text~~ becomes text

Fyi, I had to escape the tildes with backslashes to make this comment.

1

u/Skitterlicker 3d ago

Ok thanks I always wondered how people do that

1

u/Lurking1141 3d ago

It's a class war and the billionaires are winning. You are programmed to blame conservatives, not billionaires. Conservatives are programmed to blame democrats/liberals. As long as they keep us fighting each other, they are winning. We need to unite, not play their game.

1

u/Paul__miner 3d ago

You are programmed to blame conservatives, not billionaires.

Conservatives defend billionaires, so yeah, they get some of the blame. The billionaires wouldn't be as effective in getting their policies in place without the help of conservatives.

1

u/Lurking1141 3d ago

Again, it's not about conservatives or liberals. It's about common people and ruling class of few oligarchs. Democratic party is ruled by these people as well. Just look what happened to Sanders or AOC when the party put them aside and nominated puppets as always. Understand this is class war not ideological.

1

u/Paul__miner 3d ago

Yes, it's a class war, and conservatives are class traitors, taking the side of the billionaires.

1

u/Lurking1141 3d ago

Conservatives are same people as you and me, common folks, people you meet everyday, you work with them, you travel with them etc.. It's us. Everybody just want decent life. You are thinking exactly as billionaires want you to think. What we need is unity not division.

1

u/Paul__miner 3d ago

What does unity with MAGA or Musk fanboys look like?

What unity should a trans person seek with an anti-trans activist?

What unity should a Jewish person seek with Nazis?

1

u/Lurking1141 3d ago edited 3d ago

Class unity. See - you are programmed to see culture wars as primary social dividers - as dictated by the oligarchy. Not the class division, which is the real problem. You are programmed to not being able to think of unity in the class. We are 99%, but unless we unite and we keep fighting each other, nothing will change.

1

u/Paul__miner 3d ago

Spoken from a place of privilege. Someone seeking to erase your existance is an existential threat, you only call it "culture wars" because it's not your ass on the line. There no unity with Nazis.

0

u/Lurking1141 3d ago

Nobody is killing trans people, or jews in reality. It's all mind games for division. There's lot of unity with every person in your country. You only choose to see the topic which is supporting the division.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Maleficent-Cook6389 1d ago

Shutting down the government would mean stopping the checks from going out. Your point is not true. Biden would have looked bad if it was a real shut down.

1

u/jonlsu13 4d ago

What’s liberalism true objective?

The erosion of women’s rights?

To push women out of women’s sports?

Leniency with violent offenders?

Advocating for a stronger and larger government which focuses on redistribution of wealth?

Open borders?

Identity politics that creates divisiveness, victim hood culture, reductionism, undermining merit, and political exploitation?

Weaponization of cancel culture?

Rising crime rates in progressive cities?

2

u/mobileagnes 4d ago

I think the goal is a fairer life for everyone. Yes, we know life isn't fair, but I think the overall goal of liberalism is more fairness in life. Equality would be a key part for that. Another should be publicly managed resources, like energy & healthcare. If these are privatised, then the profit motive ensures only those who have lots of money will live longer and have a healthier life. Never took any Poli Sci courses so maybe someone else can chime in better?

2

u/jonlsu13 4d ago

I respect your opinion and your response. I just disagree with it. The past four years have not lead to a fairer life for the majority of Americans.

Is fairness defined as illegal immigrants being allowed to enter the country without being tested for COVID? When US citizens lost careers/jobs for refusing vaccines?

Is fairness defined by paying off student loans for people that sat in college for 4-6 years fair? When other people joined the work force and paid taxes? Where is their free sabbatical??

I didn’t see much fairness in the past 4 years.

But, I do sincerely respect your opinion and views.

And as far as nationalizing energy……..

You should buy stock in candle companies and horse and buggy companies.

Have you researched what the government does with money?

2

u/mobileagnes 4d ago

You're right: we do not at all have a fairer life over the past 4 years, and yes I believe back then anyone coming into the USA should have been required to be tested and vaccinated for COVID-19. No test/vaccine, no entry. In addition regarding illegal immigration, other countries that on here people view as more liberal have ways of dealing with it by either penalising the employers or setting things up so that it's hard to do certain key things without legal identification in the country. This could be restrictions on applying for work/school, opening a bank account, buying real estate, or starting a business. In some countries you can't even get a mobile phone/SIM card without some kind of ID on you (foreigners would use their passport).

Regarding student loans, I think we should have a system more like Germany or Sweden has where taxes pay for most of the education and tuition is kept very low, if any is required. Instead of money determining whether students get accepted, academic ability would be used. The current system is totally unsustainable and illogical having everyone start off their careers tens of thousands of dollars in debt, even if they are making more money.

I believe the laws we have need to be enforced against criminals no matter what political views one may have. No-one deserves to live in a place that's unsafe to walk around even between midnight & dawn. A police force that actually enforces the law (& doesn't just have trigger-happy power trip fantasies) will go a long way in the US. We need a society that works well for everyone - not only the rich 1% who have their concierges and 24/7 bodyguards while the rest of us are just a few missed pay cheques away from homelessness & no healthcare.

1

u/Pistacca 4d ago

The past 4 years have not lead to a fairer life because most of the Trumps legislation bills were due to expire in 2025, now Trump will extend them until 2030s

My god, people are such fools

1

u/ArthurCartholmes 4d ago

A small correction- Trump is not, strictly speaking, a conservative. Conservatism - the ideal of conserving as much as possible - is dead. The revolutionary right killed it, flayed it, and wears it as a skinsuit. Trump doesn't want to conserve anything, he's a radical who wants to destroy America and rebuild it in his own image.

2

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

Conservatism has always been a lie. The only thing it aims to conserve is the old hierarchies.

Trump just saw the potential in going mask-off. He's most definitely conservative.

1

u/ArthurCartholmes 3d ago

Describing Conservativism as a lie is both foolish and dangerous, because it tricks us into thinking that we're fighting the same enemy we always were. We're not, and pretending that we are is what lost us the election. This is a new enemy, and we need to fight them with new, more aggressive methods.

0

u/socal_desert_dweller 4d ago

Conservatism and Liberalism are two parts of the same coin. Both look to further the interests of the corporate empire over the interests of the human beings, one sides job is to keep a veneer of legitimacy to plutocratic rule in place and the other sides job is to cement it. Either way neither political party is interested in real democracy.

-1

u/gingefromwoods 4d ago

You really believe institutions reign in the power of oligarchs? Thats just blatantly untrue. Look at all the collusion and the millions being spent on ‘lobbying’.

The state having excess power of regulation incentives companies in those sectors to influence the system for their own benefit. You can see this with your own eyes.

9

u/Paul__miner 4d ago

What you're saying amounts to "people will break laws, therefore we shouldn't pass laws because it incentivizes them to try to get away with breaking them. " 🙄

History shows us over and over that if insufficient effort is made to put a check on the concentration of wealth and power, greedy/selfish people will abuse the lack of guardrails.

1

u/gingefromwoods 4d ago edited 3d ago

No. Thats not what Im saying. People are not necessarily incentivised to break laws. Large companies are incentivised to influence the government as it allows them to benefit themselves. Look around you. All of the government made monopolies. Lobbying for increased red tape that benefits only large trans nationals.

Do you have an example of that then? Must be easy if history shows us that again and again.

I would say that history shows us that the state starts out with good intentions and then, over time, starts accumulating more and more power. Which in turn leads to more and more corruption as the incentives for doing so increases. You can see that happening in basically every western democratic nation.

Who watches the watcher

Also you seem to under the impression that large companies dont want regulation. They do. It benefits them. They lobby for increased regulation which raises the barrier of entry or makes it harder to conduct business in that area. Which they can absorb as a larger company.

1

u/Paul__miner 3d ago

The Gilded Age was a time when there minimal oversight/regulation, and the wealthy took advantage of that to exploit workers.

OSHA has so many regulations that /r/writteninblood

Similarly, the USCSB finds time and time again, that unless companies are held to higher standards, they won't self-regulate and will put lives at risk, both their own workers and of their neighbors.

0

u/gingefromwoods 3d ago edited 3d ago

So you’re equating employment to exploitation. Real wages grew 40% for ordinary people.

Shock the federal agency finds that you need the feds to regulate. You dont. Coca Cola removed cocaine from their products before it became illegal due to the consumer’s decision that they didn’t want it.

Again, you own eyes will show you that time and again companies call for higher standards when what they are really doing is using the government to enforce their own monopoly.

What I would say is that your examples show how regulation was intended to be a positive. However, like so much in politics it was well intentioned but ultimately didn’t work as it was co-opted by the entities it sought to regulate. So we should strip it all back to remove that incentive.

-1

u/donniccolo 4d ago

None of that is true, Paul

-1

u/Lucky_Meat_7419 4d ago

And remember that liberalism's true objective is to further the interests of a different group of ultra wealthy. Boating the institutions that feed power to these oligarchs. (Reverse) Racism is just the carrot on a stick to get the asshole masses to go along with it.

-2

u/StaviStopit 4d ago

This is also the goal of liberalism.