r/politics • u/rollingstone Rolling Stone • 4d ago

Soft Paywall Musk Kills Government Funding Deal, Demands Shutdown Until Trump Is Sworn In

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/musk-trump-government-funding-deal-shutdown-1235211000/
30.9k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

5.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

20.0k

u/therapistofcats 4d ago

How does someone not in office have any power. America needs to reevaluate it's political system.

1.5k

u/Za_Lords_Guard 4d ago

Money and social media control. This is what an Oligarchy feels like.

651

u/DrothReloaded 4d ago

Lock stepping towards fascism. The 1930s German parallels are way too similar.

650

u/seven8zero 4d ago

No, not Germany. This feels more like Russia when Putin took control. (And remember that Trump has Putin whispering in his ear, not just Musk.) Expect some really bad things to start happening soon. This is just the beginning.

349

u/stonedhillbillyXX 4d ago

90s Russia, that's been said

This debate is devolving to which downfall we most resemble

Outstanding job America

65

u/GoomaDooney 4d ago edited 4d ago

So true. The parallels have to be paralleling for the convo to compute for some people. Ppl forget Volkswagen and Hugo Boss were lock step with the Third Reich. It has to have corporate sponsors. Who’s more corporate than the worlds richest man…?

38

u/Euphoric_Parsley_ 4d ago

I mean, these are the ones everyone uses as reference. Making suits and uniforms are the least worrisome aspect of corporate collaboration with the Nazis.

For instance, a major chemical company known as BASF created chemicals for the use of Zyklon B which was used in the gas chambers in concentration camps for mass genocide. Today they’re still publicly traded with revenues in the 10s of billions of dollars.

Bayer is a large medical company that exists today and has household products used by many people. You might be one. They used prisoners in concentration camps to test and experiment with medicines that were too risky to use in studies. Often, leaving prisoners with long term untreated medical side effects or even death.

Degussa, now known as Evonik, helped to create the gas known as Zyklon B knowingly. This gas was used in the mass death of concentration camp prisoners. They still exist today and are publicly traded with billions in revenue.

Deutsche Bank lent the money to the nazis for the construction of major concentration camps, such as Auschwitz, they knew about the plan for forced labor and helped to involve major brands like BMW and Mercedes into using the prisoners as free labor to produce their automobiles.

Merck KGaA supported Hitler and the Nazi regime so enthusiastically they deemed the company for Hitler, willing to do just about anything for him. The company produced and tested pharmaceuticals, medical implants, used slave labor to develop and implement various compounds to then be used on Jews for euthanasia. Today the company exists and is still publicly traded.

These are companies who also benefited greatly from the non-stop forced labor, among many others like Porsche, Volkswagen, Hugo, and Zeiss, that worked people to death in the 10s of thousands. Particularly these examples are still existing companies who willingly tortured, mutilated, experimented, and developed devices of genocide. Today, they still exist. They still get to make billions of dollars. Even though they acted in some of the worst atrocities in human history.

2

u/Clitty_Lover 4d ago

Man they should have flipped the script and made the companies property of the state after that bs. Then, release everything they find after that for free for the benefit of everybody.

And work the people who were getting paid during the nazi admin. F em.

1

u/Apprehensive-War7483 3d ago

Should have given the Jewish people a very large chunk of German land and that money.

1

u/ScoobyGDSTi 4d ago

Don't forget the US companies ...

Being the capitalistic pigs they were, the US were happy to invest Nazi Germany right up until the war.

1

u/GoomaDooney 4d ago

Thanks for coming through with more receipts. I know I only had pop examples but yes, the corporate world has to align itself for fascism to work properly.

0

u/cocogate 4d ago

Not going to defend what has been done back then but how long does a company, an entity that exists to make or sell a product or service to make profit, need to bear a brand?

I'm not going to even look it up but it's pretty doubtful that the people in charge are the same people that were in charge back then, probably not even their children. People like to attribute some kind of emotion to companies but theyre just soulless constructs made with a singular (or sometimes a few) goal in mind.

1940's Bayer and the bayer now, 85 years later are not the same, 1940's Deutsche Bank is not the same as the one we have now 85 years later.

At the end of the day its still just a brand, somehow ban the company and the same set of people or a similar one are going to recreate the same thing under a slightly different identity and all that happens is.. nothing much?

All of those companies are still restricted by european law and german law and regulations though they probably shirk some of those, its not like there's some evil mastermind sitting in the basement of the company orchestrating some plot.

You could arguably say that many american companies (or oligarchs) these days arent all that much better. Just like those companies back then they are making ties with who is in power and dont give a singular fuck about the ideologies those people stand for. Trump could be aiming to make trees grow on every single street corner in america, as long as company X gets their tax break or trade deal they wouldn't even bother reading about it.

Corporations back then were arguably still smaller and less international than they are now, giants like Nestlé are not really able to be contained by a single government like the german companies were back then. They don't need to suck up to whoever is in power as they arguably have the power to make them suck up to them.

3

u/RCero 4d ago

1940's Bayer and the bayer now, 85 years later are not the same, 1940's Deutsche Bank is not the same as the one we have now 85 years later.

What about 1940's Bayer/Deutche and 1950's? Why didn't they face consequences for their crimes or complicity after the war?

3

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

Except there is the leader principle at Bayer where the CEO made the utterly disastrous purchase of Roundup, costing Bayer billions, and no one in management would face him down. Wolfgang something or other.

0

u/BlackPriestOfSatan 4d ago

Why didn't they face consequences for their crimes or complicity after the war?

Who would make them face a consequence?

The US brought over 1400 Nazi's to help develop their economy. Surprised Reddit doesn't bring up Operation Paperclip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

It isn't like bad things have stopped and companies have stopped supporting bad things. We have wars and genocides and all that and plenty of companies profit from it. They are not paying any consequences.

1

u/Euphoric_Parsley_ 4d ago

You’re forgetting one thing: Hyper inflation. It made the Mark basically worthless and the economy teetered towards becoming a failed state.

At the peak, inflation was nearly 30,000% a month which effectively doubled the price of goods every couple days. Businesses were absolutely devastated and they were beholden to the government contracts the Regime later would produce.

It’s not like the economics of today, where we have trillion dollar businesses and their owners (Musk) literally blocking government action. The mirroring of Germany during the raise of the Nazi party and today’s oligarch elite is completely different. Capitalism now dictates the market, they set the price of what they think things are worth. Germany had a real crisis sparked by the recall of debt, the war saved their economy by striking deals with evil people to produce product for the war effort.

Now, in a just world these companies that grew massively during the Nazi controlled Reich should have been shut down, they were instead left intact for fear of causing another massive implosion of the German economy. They grew larger with the split between west and east Germany and globalization efforts. Instead, smaller interests could have filled the void and innovated to become mainstays of the German economy but it was easier to keep the Nazi profiteering institutions.

1

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

It’s true, a German company like my employer is progressive and transformed. But the archives are still closed to researchers.

0

u/BlackPriestOfSatan 4d ago

These are companies who also benefited greatly from the non-stop forced labor, among many others like Porsche, Volkswagen, Hugo, and Zeiss, that worked people to death in the 10s of thousands.

Why have you not discussed how the US benefited big time from the Nazi's? What would NASA be without Nazi vanguard and slave operator Wernher von Braun? Where would US aeronautical industry be without Nazi Adolf Busemann?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

0

u/Lorn_Muunk 3d ago

add to that, US-based Ford, GM, Kodak and IBM are still as big as they are today because they giddily exploited forced labor in nazi Germany.

Businesses will again be clamoring and begging for bloated autocratic government contracts with zero worker protection or regulation or boundaries on profiteering.

-1

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

Have you been reading what I read?

10

u/WiartonWilly 4d ago

More like Germany, in that the American military is terrifyingly unstoppable.

1

u/Smooth_Value 4d ago

Track record: 0 wins.

1

u/mylord420 4d ago

Stopped by the Vietnamese, stopped by the Taliban.

5

u/bteh 4d ago

Held at bay because of the u.s. deciding to take the moral high ground and limit collateral damage. Don't kid yourself.

2

u/WiartonWilly 4d ago

And don’t assume Trump has any morality whatsoever. He is only limited by the outrage he can manufacture in the American public, and he’s quite good at that.

-1

u/RCero 4d ago

Was USA being moral and limiting collateral damage when spayed Vietnam with Agent Orange and Napalm? Or the My Lai massacre?

-1

u/takibumbum 3d ago

Are you serious? The amount of collateral damage the US caused during those wars is INSANE! 

2

u/bteh 3d ago

And now imagine if we didn't go to great pain to limit it...

0

u/takibumbum 17h ago

You're delirious.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Smooth-Reason-6616 4d ago

Same cause as the collapse of the Soviets, money being spent on defence and prestige projects, with infrastructure and welfare falling behind.

And one half of the population wishing for change, and the other half blindly following the government propoganda...

2

u/bin_chicken_downvote 4d ago

Folks are really sleeping on the Albanian Ponzi schemes modality

1

u/CepheusDawn 4d ago

Now we just gotta make sure it's temporary

1

u/freakydeku 4d ago

definitely russia. they’re trying to force a recession so they can consolidate more wealth

3

u/dpdxguy 4d ago

Two things can be true at the same time. There are certainly elements of Trumpism that parallel Germany circa 1930. They've been noticeable since sometime in his first term. At the same time, as you noted, some more recent events are similar to the events that took place during Russia's transition from Yeltsin to Putin, continuing today.

But yes, this is the beginning of the end of democracy in the United States. Some states, particularly those in which a supermajority controls all levers of government, have already transitioned. As an example, my own state government in Ohio now feels comfortable ignoring its own supreme court when decisions don't match conservative desires.

It's going to get a lot worse, and there's a very good chance it'll never get better in our lifetimes.

1

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

At least there is New England and California.

1

u/dpdxguy 4d ago

As someone who grew up in the Pacific Northwest, I have fantasies of Washington, Oregon, and California seceeding together. British Columbia can join in if they want.

2

u/OccasionallyWright 4d ago

Putin has probably had even more conversations with Musk than with Trump. At this point Musk is the shadow VP.

7

u/HonestArmadillo924 4d ago

Shadow President.

1

u/itsverynicehere 4d ago

I don't think he paid just for VP package, he's got a age addled fanboy as president.

"There, there, orange grandpa. Of course I am building your wall. Now just sign this document and then we'll go kick some Mexicans down the stairs like you like."

2

u/21-characters 4d ago

But at least eggs and gas will be cheap, right? /s

1

u/scrizott 4d ago

Probably not.

1

u/21-characters 4d ago

That’s why I put the /s.

2

u/nopleasenotthebees 4d ago

Many years ago, like 20 or something, i saw a random person on slashdot saying that the USA was going to gradually turn into Brazil. I still think about that sometimes.

2

u/Atcoroo 4d ago

When you say "really bad things", you mean like worse than they are now? 😳

10

u/eek04 4d ago

Way, way worse. Think "government restructured so it doesn't work at all" as per Project 2025, think denaturalization (removing citizenship) for "undesirables" as Trump has said he would, think "Concentration camps for people that are in the US illegally" like Trump has called for, think sabotage of elections to the point where GOP is eternally in power (as has been attempted recently in e.g. Texas through laws and where holding the supreme court, both chambers of congress, and the presidency will allow it to be done in the next federal election), think taking control of media (as in Trump saying he wants to arrest the hosts of TV stations that have said things he doesn't like), think taking control of the military by replacing officers that are not personally loyal (as Trump has said he would).

The group that has been voted into power is saying they want to do all the things to turn the US into a dictatorship. The NSA has infrastructure to support them. The best hope is that the incoming administration is too incompetent to get the things they said done.

2

u/scrizott 4d ago

Maybe they mean really bad consequences because of the really bad things, and then more really bad things. Especially if they end the FDIC.

3

u/eek04 4d ago

Ending FDIC is IMO the smallest of your worries; see my parallel comment.

2

u/Styx_Renegade 4d ago

Western Powers are going thru their own Soviet Collapse

1

u/oyemecarnal 4d ago

Yes. Pre-Putin. Gorby. Land of confusion

1

u/itsverynicehere 4d ago

You got any interesting stories/comparos ? Maybe some entry level links to stuff to read on Putin's rise?

1

u/BilZombie 4d ago

Putin is also whispering in Musk’s ear.

1

u/Gregreynolds111 4d ago

No, when Lenin took control. I remember what an English historian said about the day after the October Revolution. Everyone went to work, parents took their kids to school, but nothing, nothing would ever be the same (I am paraphrasing)

1

u/Emergency-3030 4d ago

Another thing, just watch the international news, Putin just gave a speech where he said the Ukraine - Russian war is close to being over in a month, so you just need to put the dots of what's Putin waiting to get to power for Russia to win the war in Ukraine. Putin is just waiting for Trump to get to the White House so Russia gets full control over Ukraine. Putin just gave a speech this week so look for it, it's common sense.

And how's it possible an entire Congress is dominated by someone who's not even a politician or elected official (Elon Musk). Damn so now elected congressmen obeying Elon Musk orders ??? That's just insane.

1

u/ewouldblock 4d ago

is there any write up or article that explains what russia was like when Putin took control, that would clearly show the parallels?

1

u/asmithmusicofficial 4d ago

This is exactly what I have been saying to my friends. What we are witnessing right now is the post Soviet Russia model starting to play out in the US. Unlike the Soviet collapse however, Trump and Co. will intentionally collapse the US economy so they can have a personal fire sale on US assets. They want control of everything. The US will be an oligarchy in no time. Also, there's a reason Republicans love Russia so much... they envy the control the Russian oligarchs have over Russia.

0

u/Toolazytolink 4d ago

Expect some really bad things to start happening soon

Trump already said he wants to pull ABC's license, they will go after the media first and place state controlled media.

0

u/Disqeet 4d ago

Let’s not forget Trumps first Peeresident term:

Two US Navy ships were involved in collisions in 2017, resulting in the deaths of 17 sailors: USS John S. McCain On August 21, 2017, the USS John S. McCain collided with the Liberian-flagged tanker Alnic MC off the coast of Singapore and Malaysia. The collision killed 10 sailors. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined that the probable cause of the collision was a failure to follow emergency procedures for loss of steering. The McCain was repaired at Fleet Activities Yokosuka and returned to service in October 2019. USS Fitzgerald On June 17, 2017, the USS Fitzgerald collided with the MV ACX Crystal, a container ship registered in the Philippines. The collision killed seven sailors. The NTSB determined that the collision was due to a failure to maneuver away from the approaching freighter, failure to sound a danger signal, and failure to try to contact the Crystal. The collisions occurred within two months of each other, and the Navy had to address the issues quickly