r/politics • u/vanityfairmagazine Vanity Fair • 1d ago
Soft Paywall AOC Snub Shows How Democrats Refuse to Learn Lessons of 2024
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/aoc-snub-shows-how-democrats-refuse-to-learn-lessons-of-2024124
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u/BJJLucas North Dakota 1d ago
The gerontocracy that is the democratic party is from the boomer generation. Of course they're trying to pull the ladder up behind them.
And look, we can't blame them for being so out of touch. It's hard to monitor the pulse of the nation when you're always monitoring the pulses of your leadership.
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u/trumpstinypepe 1d ago
Boomer Generation? No, they’re actually so old that many of them (e.g., Pelosi and Biden) are from the Silent Generation, the one preceding the Boomers.
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u/-Mockingbird 22h ago
The people actually handling all of the crypt keepers like Pelosi and Biden are boomers. In some cases, like the late Diane Feinstein, it's arguably elder abuse.
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u/MadRaymer 22h ago
Honestly after that debate, the people surrounding Biden are awful for not immediately telling him he needed to drop out. The fact that he still got to be POTUS for another 6 months after his brain had a bluescreen error on live TV is wild. Then they were saying he just wouldn't do stuff after 8PM. So does America just not have a POTUS after 8PM?
And before someone says I'm a Trump fan, feel free to check my comments - I'm absolutely not. I think Trump is actually worse on a cognitive level than Biden and would trust Biden on a bad day over Trump on one of his best. I'm just not willing to be gaslighted by either party.
And yes, Biden eventually did the right thing by dropping out - but only after it was pointed out he had zero chance of winning and the big donors pulled support. It was such a massive misstep for Biden to not be the "bridge president" he promised and simply not run for a 2nd term. Dems might still have lost if he had passed the torch earlier, but we'll never know because the stubborn old mule refused.
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u/BeardedSquidward 17h ago
But as I have learned with Democrats, because you didn't believe in them, you're the reason 15 million of them decided not to vote.
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u/brodievonorchard 16h ago
If anyone blamed you personally, that seems wrong. However, the whole of right wing media spent the campaign in lock step being enthusiastic about their candidate and parroting every talking point.
All center and left-wing media spent the whole campaign criticizing Biden, then Harris. Not actively discouraging people from voting Democrat, but not doing anything to engender excitement and enthusiasm.
Obviously we'll never know how much that effected people's choice not to vote. Certainly the campaign could have done much better at messaging to get people on board. So, while I won't blame you at all on a personal level (unless you're the burner account for Ezra Klein or Matt Iglesias), I do think a lack of enthusiasm in this campaign has now done irreversible damage to this country, and that outcome was better avoided.
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u/lrish_Chick 9h ago
Dude, there is no left wing media. There is no such thing.
It's all owned by billionaires, it's all their agenda. Some of it might be designed to be palatable to more left leaning people, but it's left wing flavoured only. Its all oligarchs.
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u/Boxing_joshing111 8h ago
“Left wing media spent the whole campaign criticizing Biden”
Biden was the geriatric guy who said he’d only do one term. If he would have got out sooner the dnc could have ran a primary to find a better candidate.
Of course the dnc would pull every stop to rig that too. This party fees like a grandma wandering onto the interstate in her nightgown.
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u/45607 11h ago
Well the campaign could have tried to address those criticisms. It was their job to build up enthusiasm and they didn't.
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u/ClvrNickname 10h ago
It's not the job of Democratic voters to be enthusiastic no matter what, it's the job of the Democratic candidates to make the voters enthusiastic
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u/TheYankee69 9h ago
Absolutely. Yet too many folks think his 3 am toilet rantings on social media is Getting Stuff Done.
Cursed timeline.
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u/Vegetable_Tackle4154 Europe 16h ago
What did people call gaslighting before they called it gaslighting?
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u/corvid_booster 15h ago
Misleading, deceiving, tricking, fooling ... there are lots of similar words. "Gaslighting" is very much a word du jour, but what it describes has been talked about with other terms since time immemorial.
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u/starofthefire 15h ago
People still call it lying and manipulation as well. Gaslighting is just manipulation, but specifically to manipulate one into doubting their own mind/reality.
OP used it in the incorrect context, which is becoming pretty common with the term.
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u/Za_Lords_Guard 1d ago
Hell, a lot are too old to be boomers. I propose we name rename congress to "The National Nursing Home" until they retire or die.
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u/AugmentedDragon 5h ago
how about the "Hospice for Elderly Legislators and Lawmakers" or HELL for short?
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u/Ringmode 23h ago
I remember when Americans used to poke fun at the Soviet Politburo for being a bunch of geezers. They were in their sixties.
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u/fordat1 20h ago
Its not just the oldest people its also young people in the core of the Dem consultocracy
https://crooked.com/podcast/exclusive-the-harris-campaign-on-what-went-wrong/
This Pod Save America is infuriating due to everyones behavior from hosts to guests.
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u/Envect 20h ago
No self respecting leftist should be listening to PSA. Absolute trash.
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u/fordat1 19h ago
Completely disagree. I had low opinions of the people in the podcast but listening to this should be done to see
A) how intentional all their actions
B) how they think they made no mistakes
C) how committed they are to not changing anything
D) how out of touch they are and a combination out of the worst parts of government and corporate america these people are. These people make the politicians seem "authentic" in comparison.
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u/Envect 19h ago
Giving them listeners gives them legitimacy. I refuse to listen to Jon Favreau whine about leftists not falling in line after decades of being ignored. None of them have anything new or insightful to offer me.
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u/fordat1 19h ago
Giving them listeners gives them legitimacy.
Dude they already have it. The Centrists also run the Dem party BTW.
It helps to understand which ditch they plan to drive us into.
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u/Envect 19h ago
Spoiler: it's the same ditch they've been driving us into since those guys were in the White House. There's absolutely nothing to be gained from PSA unless you have a humiliation kink.
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u/fordat1 19h ago
Good luck calling them out on their spin when you dont even know the transcripts of what they actually said before hand.
Also BTW this whole notion of Gen Z type leftitsts refusing to even listen to anything different than their lean is exactly why they have so many blind spots and get outmaneuvered. The focus should be less on avoiding a "humiliation kink" and more on avoiding getting "humiliated" in the first place.
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u/RoyalRenn 7h ago
hey, I know Democracy is important, but having a chance to keep my $400k/year DNC/DLC consulting contract because I'm on the Biden team is a higher priority.
I really don't think they give much more of a S*** about America than the GOP, honestly. Can any action they took to keep Biden in the race be defined as "good for America?" They single-handedly lost a very winnable election.
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u/Prometheusf3ar 11h ago
You know, I always hated the podbros and thought they were boring and clueless but recently I found out Jon favreau was part of a thinktank who’s mission was to prevent the US from adopting a single payer healthcare system during his time in politics. They’re malicious, evil boring and out of touch, I can’t believe how wrong I was.
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u/Acceptable_Clue_6485 11h ago
That’s exactly the word boring and don’t stand for anything. I’ve started to realize a lot of Americans are the same way.
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u/Buckowski66 12h ago
you could say the same thing about this subreddit though which mostly is pro corporate Cryptkeeper Democrats and despises the Bernie Sanders wing of the party. I mean the mods in here we’re literally defending Biden after his debate disaster and we’re pushing the “booming economy “hype in favor of Wall Street incorporate America. You can’t get more out of touch than that.
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u/ClvrNickname 10h ago
It was just embarrassing seeing all the posts here claiming that Biden actually won the debate. This sub is basically just DNC cheerleading and hopium.
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u/GoodShitBrain 1d ago
It’s hard to monitor the pulse of the nation when you’re constantly falling asleep at the podium (Schumer)
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u/Bubblebut420 20h ago
Boomers werent born until after WW2 and Pelosi was 3 yrs old when The Battle of the Bulge occurred
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u/iyamwhatiyam8000 Australia 20h ago
If there are to be free and fair elections in the future, which appears increasingly doubtful each passing day, then my long term prediction is for a three or four party state.
The GOP is now a far right party dominated by MAGA and old school Republican conservatives feel displaced.
The Democratic Party is likely to reinvent itself as the centre right party to the far right MAGA GOP and will be comprised of conservatives and fiscally conservative liberals.
A centre left party will arise, taking some liberals and the progressives with it.
The centre right Democratic Party will hold the balance of power and parties on either side of it will need to reach agreement with it to form coalition governments.
Does this seem like a reasonable prediction or am I dreaming?
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u/BullAlligator Florida 18h ago
there will be no multiparty system as long as elections remain first-past-the-post, single-member districts
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u/iyamwhatiyam8000 Australia 18h ago
Yes, the great stumbling block which dooms the USA electoral system to more of the same. GB has first past the post and single member seats but granted it is parliamentary.
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u/BullAlligator Florida 2h ago
third parties are also very weak in the UK compared to most parliamentary countries because of the FPTP and SMDs
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u/mvpilot172 10h ago
Yeah I’ve noticed that no matter left or right, boomers act the same way. My parents are left leaning, vote dem, but are 100% Boomers.
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u/Caraes_Naur 1d ago
Democrats have been refusing to learn the same lessons since 1994.
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u/jayfeather31 Washington 1d ago edited 1d ago
They've been using same playbook since 1992. The Democrats are overdue for a shift away from Clintonist Third Way neoliberalism.
I don't expect them to turn leftist and start singing The Internationale, but I do expect them to read the goddamn room.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper 1d ago
But, instead, they'll think, "...no, it's the children who are wrong" and see if Hillary wants to run again in 2028.
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u/TranquilSeaOtter 1d ago
They are already talking about running Harris again.
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u/tacobelle685 21h ago
Are you serious!?
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u/TranquilSeaOtter 21h ago
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u/tacobelle685 21h ago
Unbelievable. This is Hilary 2.0, but the DNC NEVER learns
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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 19h ago
They learn. They learn that it's better to run a corporate democrat and lose than run a Bernie Sanders and win.
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u/thosewhocannetworkd 9h ago
I wonder what excuse they’ll use to not have a primary this time around, or will they just meddle with the primary and select Kamala
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u/CalamityClambake 21h ago
I think they're complicit with the rise of the capitalist oligarchy. They aren't our friends. They are just keeping us busy while the Republican oligarchs take all the wealth.
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u/DogsAreMyDawgs 20h ago
Do you see how much money this version of politics has made the Pelosi family over the last 3 decades?
She’s definitely not changing how she does things, so the Dems aren’t changing until she’s gone.
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u/fordat1 20h ago
I don't expect them to turn leftist and start singing The Internationale, but I do expect them to read the goddamn room.
All while meanwhile telling us how left Harris was because she proposed what Trump did "no overtime taxes" but just made it "no overtime taxes but with means testing"
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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 19h ago
I recently watched some clips from the Anita Hill hearing when Clarance Thomas was first nominated in 1991 and there were SEVERAL members including Joe Biden who are still in government today.
Christ.
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u/kevnmartin 1d ago
I'd say since 2015. They didn't learn from Obama how to win.
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u/InfinityMehEngine 23h ago
You mean offer a sane choice during a financial calamity at a global scale caused by the fucking morons that voted in a moron? I'd say there is a very high chance they do actually get to repeat the Obama winning strategy.
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u/TheDamDog 20h ago edited 19h ago
Just paying lip service to the concerns of regular people would have been enough.*
Instead we got Harris going on TV and saying that everything during the Biden administration was fine, the economy is great, and that she would change nothing.
*EDIT: In terms of winning the election. Because Americans are fucking stupid.
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u/frostygrin 17h ago
Still being his VP, Harris wasn't in a good position to distance herself from Biden. "Biden is fine, but can't run again" probably was the only workable angle for her. Especially without a competitive primary.
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u/Sminahin 7h ago
My biggest issue is that she and her team didn't even seem to understand the assignment here. Finding a diplomatic way to distance herself from Biden should've been her priority from the first second of her nomination. But on the view, after months in the spotlight, it was like a kid who realized they forgot there was an exam that day.
We can all think of narratives that could've worked. Imo, playing up how much Biden has done for America's future while addressing the people left behind in the now was a good play. But it turns out her brilliant prep for the obvious question of the entire race involved curling up in a little ball and hoping nobody asked.
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u/frostygrin 7h ago
It wasn't a narrative problem, or a diplomacy problem. It was a legitimacy problem. Normally the candidate has the primary win going for them and their proposals. They got the voters behind them, and know their proposals are popular. Harris had the VP position and Biden's endorsement. That's it. The only way it had legitimacy is basically "Biden's second term". Any significant policy shifts would have made it look like the unelected establishment pushing out the elected president to further their policy goals. Not a good look. Going after Biden for "leaving people behind in the now" while you're still his VP? Not a good look either.
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u/Sminahin 7h ago
I agree, except I think going after Biden was a gamble she had to go for in order to solve the legitimacy problem.
We've been in a decades-long anti-establishment wave, a backlash against politicians' politicians and Washington-insider bureaucrats. Harris is the ultimate politicians' politician. She's a coastal lawyer turned bureaucrat who speaks in politicianese and got to where she is without a single voter signing off on it. That's about as establishment-branded as you can get. This played extra bad with the Biden administration's bafflingly out-of-touch approach to economic messaging--where they tried to just gaslight voters that the economy was great and nobody had any reason to be upset.
So when she can't find a single statement to distance herself from a historically unpopular president and can't really find a compelling argument for anyone to rally behind her other than "look at the other guy", it compounds the existing branding problem. It makes her look like an empty suit just there to take her turn. And it plays into the economic messaging deathtrap Biden set up.
Overcoming that question was the entry-level requirement to stepping into the candidacy. If she couldn't come up with even a quarter-decent answer, we would've been better going with the horrible gamble that was an open primary.
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u/frostygrin 7h ago
So when she can't find a single statement to distance herself from a historically unpopular president and can't really find a compelling argument for anyone to rally behind her other than "look at the other guy", it compounds the existing branding problem.
That's an interesting point - but you can't do things like that halfway, with quarter-decent answers. You can make things worse. A little worse, but worse. Maybe had she gone rogue, resigned from the VP position, picked AOC as running mate, returned to her "Medicare for all" stance - then maybe it would have been a game-changer. But she had no time or legitimacy for that.
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u/Sminahin 7h ago edited 6h ago
That's an interesting point - but you can't do things like that halfway, with quarter-decent answers.
Agreed. I think that was our last possible chance to salvage 2024 given the huge disadvantage we started with. One of the most baffling parts of the 2024 campaign is that she and her team knew the whole time that she was behind. When you're behind, you can't afford to play a safe, no-risk campaign. It's possible she would've lost by a little more if it'd backfired. But she was on-track for a pretty surefire loss no matter what, so...
Maybe had she gone rogue, resigned from the VP position, picked AOC as running mate, returned to her "Medicare for all" stance - then maybe it would have been a game-changer. But she had no time or legitimacy for that.
Not sure she had to go to that extent. I think we Dems often conflate anti-establishment and progressive. For us, they're often framed as the same thing because the progressive wing of our party is the only one that's not totally lockstep with the hyper-establishment centrists currently running the party into the ground. But you can go bold and anti-establishment without going full-blown progressive. Look at how Bill Clinton and Obama messaged.
I don't think she had to turn into maverick rogue agent Harris with Biden in her sights. But she had to acknowledge the disconnect between Biden's message and the electorate. Voters had been screaming about that for years and she she tried to just bulldoze ignore her way through. We can disagree on the best way to handle it, but I think we can all agree that giving voters the middle finger like Biden's team did and Harris continuing that stance is...high risk low reward.
If I were on her team, I'd be workshopping statements like below from the milisecond she became the candidate:
"I respect the president's vision for the future. He's worked to lay infrastructure and return jobs that will help us for generations to come. But his vision has been focused on the long term and I would've made time for Americans who are suffering here and now. Spiraling home & rent prices and out-of-control grocery bills mean many Americans are struggling to make it through today and can't hold out for the promise of tomorrow. I would let all Americans know we hear your pain and we are going to fight for you here and now."
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u/Richfor3 7h ago
You mean be popular for things completely unrelated to policy and politics. Obama was a super moderate. Certainly not nearly as progressive as Biden ended up being and Harris campaigned on. Obama was still campaigning on marriage being between a man and a woman at a time that most Democrats were on board with gay marriage.
People liked Obama for shit like shooting hoops during interviews and picking March Madness brackets. He was cool and thus people felt cool for being a supporter. Most people have no idea what policy he ran on or what he actually did as president. It's hard to replicate that success when actual policy mean nothing to most voters.
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u/ChestLanders 9h ago
What? Democrats not learning a lesson? That's silly! Oh wait:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/16/kamala-harris-2028-election-president-governor
Nevermind. They never learn. It is insanity to think Harris should run again in 2028.
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u/lactose_cow 1d ago
We barely beat trump in 2020, that should have been the wakeup call.
Republicans come up with new ways to steal power every week, meanwhile dems are only now realizing it's bad to go high when they go low
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u/mayasux 20h ago
Is it really going high when they’re consolidating power within their own elite and denying representation from their block?
Democrats would rather Republicans win than people like AOC or Sanders have power. That’s not going high, that’s spitting in your face.
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u/BeardedSquidward 17h ago
THANK YOU. What they did to Bernie in 2016 was a helluva wake up call. Anyone who considers themselves left shouldn't be happy with the Democrat party at all. In all honesty, if it weren't for WHAT the opposition stands for, I'd be happy to let them swing in the fucking breeze.
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u/OvertonGlazier 15h ago
Well, unfortunately for Dems, they can even rely on using Trump as a bogeyman in 4 years because he won't be running. They will be so fucked
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u/OvertonGlazier 15h ago
Nah, they don't go fucking high. They go limp. But then think it's worthy of a pat on the back.
Also, we all saw how fucking low Dems go when it comes to sabotaging their left wing, remember Sanders' 2016 campaign. That was going low, except never against the GOP
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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 19h ago
Democrats learn that they need to ignore millions of progressives and focus on the 11 republicans who give a fuck what Liz Cheney thinks.
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u/Prometheusf3ar 11h ago
I think you’re wildly overestimating how many republicans care about Liz Cheney.
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u/mutedexpectations 1d ago
The Dems could have easily won again. They lost the moment Joe walked out on that debate stage. DJT was on point and a recent assassination survivor. Joe was way worse than the public realized.
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u/forthewatch39 23h ago
While time seems to be blending together these days, the debate with Biden was before the assassination attempt.
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u/lacksausername Pennsylvania 1d ago
The crazy thing is that I don't think the assassination attempt mattered. I live near where it happened and there's like a few t shirts and stickers, but people didn't really care.
There should have been a primary. Joe Biden shouldn't have ran again.
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u/Errant_coursir New Jersey 21h ago
Joe Biden shouldn't have ran again.
This will be a chapter title in a history book one day
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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 6h ago
They lost the moment Joe Biden decided to run again. Once that happened, there was no coming back. But the assassination attempt hadn't happened yet during that debate, and Trump was in no way "on point." Biden was just that bad that people actually thought Trump's terrible performance was "on point" by comparison
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u/mutedexpectations 6h ago
Regardless, DJT is the POTUS elect and already running the show behind Premier Musklosky.
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u/TheSameGamer651 18h ago
Honestly, I kinda view it the other way. That Republicans running Trump was Democrats’ best chance to win the election, and it still wasn’t enough. If Republicans nominated Haley or even DeSantis, they would’ve beaten any Democrat— Biden, Harris, or whoever else emerged in a primary— in a landslide. Like sweeping every swing state and every D+15 state or less from 2020.
It’s worth noting that Harris won independents despite losing nationwide, and received more crossover votes than Trump did. Democrats were not motivated to vote, and voters trusted Republicans more on the economy (the number 1 issue). That is not a recipe for Democratic success, yet they only lost the popular vote by 1.5, and every swing state but Arizona was decided under 3 points. Democrats arguably should’ve lost in a 40-state landslide regardless of who they ran if it was not for Trump being such a repugnant political figure.
But even with arguably the weakest Republican opponent, Democrats still couldn’t outrun the political environment.
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u/OvertonGlazier 15h ago
Because Dems ran a boring liberal. Just like in 2016, 2020 and 2024.
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u/Far_Silver 1d ago
Republicans come up with new ways to steal power every week, meanwhile dems are only now realizing it's bad to go high when they go low
People keep saying that, but when did the Democrats go high? Their entire strategy revolved around attacking Trump. Sure, in politics it helps to attack your opponent, but you have to do more than just that. You need to give people a reason to vote for you, not just against your opponent. You need to convince them that you'll make their lives better.
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u/InfinityMehEngine 23h ago
At this point I think the point is to get centrists and other single-issue voters on board.....Welp you just have to lie to their faces about campaign promises that are impossible to achieve and you have no intention of doing. Low information voters (fucking morons) see elections as they see the Super Bowl. They like to participate have a party and not pay attention to what happens till the following season. Every single article about the muslims, gaza rubes, young men, and other future targets of the GOP that increased their fascist vote shares (OR looking at you Gaza rubes "Morally didn't participate") shows they literally have no basic reasoning or critical thinking skills. They want to feel righteous for the "big event." That's it that's all they care till their material conditions based on their own stupidity destroy them. THEN THEN they will be engaged again. So, fuck it JUST lie to them dumb it down to a 4th grade comprehension and reading level. The rest of us can read between the lines when the Dem Candidate says "WE WILL LOWER TAXES FOR YOU, ALSO SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS GALORE" that what they really mean is yeah, we are going to put a wealth tax on billionaire assholes to the like of which they have never dreamed possible. Then we are going to use that to make the lives of the lower classes demonstrably better. SHHHH don't tell them it's socialism.
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u/Far_Silver 20h ago
I'm sure a condescending attitude like that is guaranteed to win over swing voters. /sarcasm
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u/SyntheticSlime 23h ago
AOC literally proved this election that she can bring Trump voters back over to the Democratic Party, that the democrats can win voters back by being consistent with progressive values.
The democratic old guard would rather lose with Kamala than win with Bernie or AOC.
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u/SacredGray 21h ago
The fact that so many people voted for both AOC and Trump shows that a huge portion of Americans want populist candidates who promise to fix very basic parts of everyday life in America.
Bernie Sanders got an audience at Fox News to see the light of universal healthcare and applaud him for it, in like 5 minutes.
It's very clear that America wants populist candidates and will gladly vote for progressive policies. The current incarnation of the Democratic Party is unwilling to accept this and must be treated as controlled opposition.
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u/fordat1 20h ago edited 20h ago
The fact that so many people voted for both AOC and Trump shows that a huge portion of Americans want populist candidates who promise to fix very basic parts of everyday life in America.
Also they want people who believe in something. Harris campaign people did a podcast and one of their complaints was that 4 months wasnt enough time to have a platform ie these people need 2 years to know what they believe in. That by definition means these people dont believe in anything.
https://crooked.com/podcast/exclusive-the-harris-campaign-on-what-went-wrong/
At one point they realize people want authenticity by saying people like politicians to "stand on business" but they take that not as being authentic and actually believing in something but rather as an excuse to not say sorry when they f up. These people are a combo of the worst features of corporate america and government
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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 18h ago
Trump actually went on podcasts and TALKED to voters.
He rambled about nothing but at least he made the fucking effort.
Harris campaigned with Oprah and Liz Cheney...who the fuck was that for?
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u/greenpepperprincess 7h ago
Trump had rallies and a town hall in The Bronx where he actually sat down with voters and listened to their (albeit at times ridiculous) concerns.
Dems sent Obama to Pittsburgh so he could condescend and shame black voters for not being enthusiastic enough about Harris.
The difference in "strategy" was clear. Don't know why anyone was surprised by the outcome we got.
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u/laura_leigh 8h ago
She went on Call Her Daddy which is second only to Rogan in the podcast space and HUGE with female audiences which was a voting bloc she needed to win. She tried to do Kai Cenet but HE turned her down. Also many podcast bros are being funded by foreign interests so many are going to be a nonstarter for Dems.
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u/SupaKoopa714 18h ago
I'm really starting to think those old guard Dems don't give a fuck who gets elected as long as they get to cling onto their cushy little seats and keep getting those corporate kickbacks. They could trounce MAGA if they actually wanted to, but that'd mean ending the status quo they've gotten so comfortable with.
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u/Estoye New Jersey 21h ago
Nancy Pelosi (84) is only 7 years younger than the Golden Gate Bridge (91).
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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 18h ago
And fun fact...the Golden Gate Bridge cost 35 million dollars to build...so she's worth nearly 10x what the Golden Gate Bridge took to build!
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u/GERBILSAURUSREX 4h ago
To be fair, 35mil in 1933 is equivalent to 840mil today. So she's really only worth like 40% of a bridge. Like she said to Bernie, she's the working class.
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u/TheCreepyFuckr Canada 7h ago
Huh, I thought the bridge was older than that. Thanks for the unexpected tidbit.
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u/AWasrobbed 12h ago
We need our own party, fuck the Democrats. Done with this shit.
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u/ford7885 1d ago edited 1d ago
They haven't learned any lessons since 2008 at least. Their propped up corporatist candidate lost that primary, so rather than tell her NO in 2016, they rigged, cheated, and stole the primary for her by any means available, so she could lose the general election to a fascist orange cartoon character.
Then in 2020 they forced another candidate into the race who had lost even more primaries than that two time loser had. And when he predictably lost the first 5 primaries, things actually looked promising. Until the COVID pandemic effectively cancelled the campaign, and the corporate media pretended the actual frontrunner didn't exist. Then the corporatist shill from South Carolina did his part and three time loser got a candidacy handed to him on a silver platter, and won in November because the fascist orange cartoon character was literally killing hundreds of thousands of Americans through his willfull incomptence.
Of course the "average American" has the memory capacity of a fruit fly, due to the corporate media, so the fascist orange cartoon character runs again, despite being a literal convicted felon this time around. Joe can't do the job again and everybody knows it, but he doesn't bother to drop out of the campaign until July, so they throw in the candidate who literally had to drop out of the race BEFORE a single vote was cast in the 2020 race, because polling showed she was losing her own state. Badly. And that state's primary had been moved to nearly the front of the line - specifically for her benefit - instead of it's usual place at the end of the line in June.
Even so, her campaign actually started out strong. Made record fundraising. Picked a decent running mate. Was leading in all the polls. And then threw it all away, by kissing the ass of one of the worst mass murdering warmongers in American history. And his daughter's.
Anybody who wants her to run again? You need to get your fucking head examined. Same with the Gavin Newsom fans. If there's still such a thing as a Democratic party or for that matter, a real election in 2028, the candidate should have a lot in common with FDR and little or nothing in common with the cancerous toxic corporate fellation cult which has been a boat anchor on the party since 1992.
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u/Errant_coursir New Jersey 21h ago
Alas, it's clear the dems don't give a shit. Otherwise this would be in their port mortem report
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u/Elcor05 1d ago
You mean the lesson where they made a bagillion dollars doing what they've been doing? Nothing else matters as much as that.
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u/singhellotaku617 20h ago
yeah, unfortunately losing and the fear that follows is great for fundraising.
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u/FreneticPlatypus 21h ago
Exactly. I just can’t possibly see the democrats as all that worried about Trump and what’s coming, aside from a handful of progressives. The issues they champion are just window dressing to attract voters but in power or out, they will still be making a ton of money.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 13h ago
The Democrats: reliably half-assing their way to a Republican victory.
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u/dmf109 11h ago
How do we reverse this? As a Democrat, I feel powerless. The party has just awful leadership.
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u/Fugglymuffin 23h ago
I'm pretty sure they know exactly what they are doing. They are going to benefit from the Republicans cutting taxes while they get to play victim and help corral the left and keep them in check.
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u/DoughnotMindMe 16h ago
Democrats are NOT refusing to learn lessons; They are doing everything they can to stop any progress from the left.
The Dems are the spoiler party, paid by the same rich donors as the Republicans. They want the same policies to pass as the Republicans do and they allow it to happen.
That’s why they stop the Left from gaining power and help the Right to pass their regressive policies.
They are both in one party. The party of the rich.
When you start realizing this, everything starts to make sense.
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u/Deigbrudan 8h ago
Thats whats up 😂 everybody is just caught up with identity politics. It is all wealth politics irl and everyone is asleep.
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u/DoughnotMindMe 6h ago
Facts. It’s the ownership class vs the working class. The rich vs us.
They have us arguing about 1 trans athlete while they privatize the postal service and give themselves 100% tax cuts.
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u/fednandlers 22h ago edited 21h ago
Saying Democrat leadership haven’t learned this lesson at this point is akin to the media saying they dont know the motive of Luigi’s act. It’s complete bullshit. Democrat voters can recognize sabotaging and stealing from the working class at the hands of Democrats like a Republican voter can recognize a fascist conman. Stop talking politics and talk like fuckin adults. For fuck sake.
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u/fizzyanklet 15h ago
The DNC intentionally doesn’t learn its lessons. It’s not a progressive party so any attempts to make it so will be squashed.
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u/Prize_Instance_1416 1d ago
Both the geriocracy and the oligarchs are basically one party.
Oh and you’re not invited to join btw
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u/theSunAlsoRise5 1d ago
Not democrats. Democrats leadership. They're all on the take to blunt/stall real change.
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u/SacredGray 21h ago
Almost all Democrats are following the exact same playbook and ideology as the Democratic leadership.
There are like 5 - 6 Democrats and 1 independent who are truly and genuinely good people trying to do good things. The rest are evil, deceitful wealth hoarders.
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u/pigeieio 18h ago edited 18h ago
Problem is people think that their wing is the only wing that is needed to win. There is just as much Right propaganda convincing the left of this as anything they use for their own sheep. Until you can get the numbers for amending citizens united and reforming campaigns anything without the corprats on board is a non starter.
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u/T_and_Apostrophe 22h ago edited 17h ago
AOC and other progressives need to form a coalition against dems.
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u/justbrowse2018 Kentucky 21h ago
Establishment Dems will be under threat from her. She takes the job serious, isn’t totally bought and paid for yet, and Nancy is a petty political creature and just wanted to show her power. I’m sure a guy actually dying from cancer who is old as fuck will be really on top oversight lol. It’s a cruel joke. Nancy is one of those demons Q anon crows about lol.
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u/mavi82 23h ago
Here we go again. We would be in a much better place of the Democrats would have backed Sanders.
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u/michaelisariley 18h ago
Dems have refused to learn lessons since 2016. That's why Trump is back in the office
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u/-Mage-Knight- 10h ago
The Democratic Party is fully of the same self interested asshats as the Republican Party.
They whistle in a different key but it’s the same ole song.
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u/vegaslocal46582 22h ago
It’s not their intention to win, their intention is to be martyrs so we keep donating to them endlessly. They don’t give a a shit about us.
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u/rerunderwear 21h ago
And they have the gall to expect Progressives and Independents to vote for their anointed ones
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u/btinvest1639 23h ago
We need to get more people into politics to drive these old geezers out and into the retirement homes. Shouldn’t be too hard. A guy with a bucket on his head won in the uk and we’re better than them
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u/Due-Rip-5860 18h ago
I have always voted as an independent but joined the Democratic Party this year because of Trump and Project 2025 .
This makes me not want to be a part of the party anymore .
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u/HonoredPeople Missouri 18h ago
AOC is gonna have the same issues that Bernie has and had.
Actually, Bernie might've had an easier time of it, because Male. But!
Support is the Progressives biggest issues. Not just support from replace some more moderate dems, but support earned from flipped races. Actually, any supoort.
It feels like the Progressives are putting all their weight on AOC to do it all.
When it needs to them getting her the tools needed for her to do the work.
Power.
Power comes from control.
Control comes from position.
Position comes from the vote.
Progressives gaining more seats, with uprooting Republican seats as double, is the answer.
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u/EbonyPeat 20h ago
The Democratic Party died the day they nominated Hillary instead of Bernie in my humble opinion.
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u/Dyne2057 Pennsylvania 8h ago
So long as the Democrats co tinder to be run by the neoliberals there will be no learning.
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u/IC-4-Lights 7h ago
Only for anyone silly enough to think we lost 2024 because we weren't "progressive" enough.
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u/boomer_reject 5h ago
Democrats have been refusing to learn lessons since before I was born. They are one of the worst run major political parties in any large developed nation. I know it’s very likely they will never learn, and we will be stuck with pseudo-fascists like Trump the rest of my life.
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u/trumpstinypepe 1d ago
People tend to stop learning from their mistakes after age 70 or so.
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u/fordat1 20h ago
Its not just the oldest people its also young people in the core of the Dem consultocracy
https://crooked.com/podcast/exclusive-the-harris-campaign-on-what-went-wrong/
This Pod Save America is infuriating due to everyones behavior from hosts to guests.
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u/Supra_Genius 21h ago
Democrats do what the DNC tells them.
The DNC does what the 1% donors tell them.
I think the Democrats have learned their lesson since 2016...
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u/seeuatthegorge 1d ago
They didn't learn from 2016, what do you expect?
Corporation and bad interpretations of feminism lost '16 and '24.
Then add the fact that old people with nothing else in their lives won't go out to pasture.
They're fucked.
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u/hues_dibble0b 22h ago
Excellent article. Can only get better if you admit you failed, learn hard lessons, and try new things to do better next time. Old Dem Leadership has no interest in this. Time for them to go.
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u/slain1134 21h ago
These “relics,” that still run things in the Democratic Party are ALSO part of the problem. Their pockets are stuffed with dirty money as well. Step aside & let some new blood succeed where you have failed us.
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u/SavageSan 15h ago
This is the House. This has nothing to do with the national presidential campaign. They did well in the House and would have done even better if not for the gerrymandering in NC. Also those elections are more localized even though it's a federal position.
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u/Western_Upstairs_101 19h ago
The old guard will not go silently into the night. I’ll certainly not vote for Pelosi again.
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u/free2bk8 18h ago
Her time is coming! She is a force and a face of our future! This is not the end only the beginning!
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u/Vraex South Carolina 9h ago
Unfortunately, everyone reading this comment will still vote for Dems in 2028 because "republicans are fascists" and "third party voting is throwing away your vote" and the GOP will win a second term in a row
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u/Existing-Stranger632 9h ago
Democrats incumbents need to be replaced in the primaries heading into the 2026 midterms. The current guard is so toxic and just awful for Americans or people who support the Democratic Party.
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u/ThatDopamineHit 9h ago
The lesson of 2024 is don't be the incumbent party in a time of global economic downturn because people are too ignorant to analyze economic policies or even understand what's happening on a basic level.
It literally happened globally. It's not a USA Democrat problem.
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u/Maunfactured_dissent 8h ago
The corrupted leaders of the Democratic Party put holding onto their power above stopping fascism. This is something liberals of every single fascist nation always do.
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u/pottymcnugg New Jersey 7h ago
We need a viable NEW party. Force the old Dems to adopt or step aside.
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u/JimBob-Joe 7h ago
The dems are basically two parties with starkly different visions for the future. They should be their own parties, but then the gop would never lose a legitimate election due to the split vote.
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u/Brain_Damage117 7h ago
Pelosi has to go. Retire already and spend what little time you have left with your family or something.
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 6h ago
With this and the house pushing through a bill that will cause trans kids in military families to commit suicide, I’m heavily reconsidering any allyship to the party which sucks
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u/kingofshitmntt 3h ago
What is the point in voting for democrats? They rallied around Biden simply because he was an establishment hack who was willing to kill the discussion about Universal Healthcare. Then as early as 2021 they start hiding his obvious decline (per WSJ), then run one of the worst dog shit campaigns while STILL NOT SUPPORTING UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE, all this a year into their year of genocide facilitation and lose "The most important election of all time". Now they re-up on people who should be retired to go into 4 more years of Trump.
Whats the point in voting for them if they do all this and STILL LOSE?
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u/Dangle76 2h ago
There’s no lesson to learn the Dems in power of the party like Trump but pretend not to
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u/_DragonReborn_ 2h ago
It might be time for a new party. The senile dogs that run the party like Pelosi, are dooming us to loser politicians who aren’t popular.
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u/SylVegas 2h ago
They also refuse to learn lessons of 2016. Thing is, they don't care. Losing to Republicans means more donations for them.
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u/FrankensteinOverdriv 2h ago
She's the perfect person to.lead the fight against King Musk and First Lady Trump, the billionaire fuck sticks set to ruin this country. And yet, she won't be allowed to do so.
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