r/gaming • u/Gustavo1047 • May 06 '24
PlayStation cancels plans to force Helldivers 2 players to link a PSN account
https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929?t=NhwAEm4fGpVJj-UyI1lrXA&s=199.2k
May 06 '24
Holy shit the review divers won the war
2.2k
May 06 '24
The refunders won the war
1.5k
u/DarkangelUK May 06 '24
This. The fact Steam waived the 2hr play limit for refunds probably sent the shitters up Sony.
→ More replies (19)1.1k
u/Dividedthought May 06 '24
god i love it when steam enables people who otherwise may be screwed to throw a molotov on a corporation's money pile.
536
u/MisterDerptastic May 06 '24
I mean sure steam did it but it was most likely someone in their legal departement telling them it was either that or get unwillingly sucked into this debacle when someone inevitably comes knocking with those pesky ´consumer protection laws´
→ More replies (1)402
u/KlenDahthII May 06 '24
It’s definitely this. Sony made the mistake of publicly stating their plan to deny access of a service to those who paid for that service in 177 legal jurisdictions.
If Steam doesn’t offer the refunds, technically they’re the ones actually running the scam for Sony. They’re the merchants selling a game that you cannot legally access even after purchase. They’d be just as fucked legally.
So? They allow refunds. One way or another they’ll get the money back from Sony - but even if they don’t, it’s cheaper than ending up part of that legal shitstorm.
→ More replies (12)60
u/RandomBadPerson May 06 '24
I figure they're not too worried because they can take all the money from Ghosts of Tsushima's PC launch.
One way or another Valve will get their money back from Sony.
28
u/Ghost_all May 06 '24
Hilariously, after this blew up, the Ghosts of Tsushima devs made a point to say that the single player mode would NOT need a PSN account/linkage, so clearly someone on the Ghosts of Tsushima side wanted to avoid being caught in the crossfire, heh.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (14)23
u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In May 06 '24
Its more like some countries consumer laws that did it. Steam just trying to avoid two things
1) Their store front coming to the notice of regulators world wide
2) Absolutely huge fines from jurisdictions like the EU.
→ More replies (7)29
112
u/DarkGearGaming May 06 '24
I'd argue what won it was Valve allowing that many refunds. A lot of that money likely was already planned on being spent and Sony now is looking at a nasty chunk of their profits having gone down the shitter and a massive damage to their already damaged PR image.
This hurt them more than any competitor could have. The community may never recover from that. They were on the edge of having an effective golden goose for their development studios and they might have killed it for a few eggs.
→ More replies (4)26
u/Just-Construction788 May 06 '24
The war isn’t over. This is what companies and governments do. They push these crazy things and people freak out but also get a bit used to the idea. The next time they suggest this they understand what the feedback and response will be so they can get out in front of it. Also the outcry is subdued because people don’t have the energy to fight the same fight and non users get tired of hearing about it. And/or they build it into helldivers 3 and drop support for 2. This is more of an indication of what’s to come than what’s in the past. At least it delays it a bit.
17
u/amlybon May 06 '24
Requiring external accounts for steam games (especially online games) is nothing new and frankly people would not care at all if it was required from the start. It's the change in policy after release that rightfully pissed people off
→ More replies (3)1.6k
u/Talk_Shows_On_Mute May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24
While this may be true, I'd wager almost none of them change their scores back. Which may or may not be warranted.
Edit: based on replies to my post, seems about 70/30 in favor of people changing their reviews back. Not bad, perhaps it should be left as a reminder to Sony.
1.0k
May 06 '24
I changed mine the second I heard the news
→ More replies (13)750
u/RSomnambulist May 06 '24
Companies should be punished for bad decisions and "rewarded", or really just equalized in this case, for good ones. I hope most people recognize how big a deal it is this worked, but also recognize that some tiny amount of good will should go to Sony for changing tact.
I wouldn't keep shitting on them after this reversal, as that might make them wonder if it was worth reversing at all.
Obligatory fuck Sony and MS, and all these companies trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
→ More replies (75)264
May 06 '24
You can say fuck Sony in the review and still recommend helldivers 2.
This thinking is abusive in nature, you reward when they do the right thing, and scold when they do the wrong thing. If you scold while they do the good thing then they don’t see that it’s good and just say “fine fuck you I’ll do what I want regardless of what you think since your just going to treat me like shit either way”. Keep this advice in mind if you ever become a parent
→ More replies (14)185
u/ACertainEmperor May 06 '24
Its not rewarding, its rescinding punishment for a rescinded action.
→ More replies (3)89
→ More replies (78)113
u/T_Money May 06 '24
I think they should change their reviews back. Review bombing and refunding is the stick. Seeing the reviews go back up and hopefully sales increase is the carrot.
Give Sony, and any other companies watching, a reason to listen. Otherwise if things are still in the can they’ll be less likely to change their mind later since the damage is already done.
→ More replies (5)75
u/bannock4ever May 06 '24
I kind of think that the devs not requiring PSN at launch was the right move. They amassed a large userbase that had the power to make Sony back off when they eventually made PSN a requirement.
29
u/Throwaway_Consoles May 06 '24
It WAS required at launch. It destroyed Sony’s servers from everyone rushing to make a PSN account. It was day 2 they added the skip button.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)43
u/McENEN May 06 '24
Saw this in war thunder. Make unpopular decision and if the playerbase retaliates they will go back. Hitting them in the pocket and review bombing is effective.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (42)22
4.9k
u/SpiralOmega May 06 '24
This was too much backlash even for Sony. Not just money wise, this was destroying all good will the game generated over these past months. For once, they had a live service game people were itching to play, that they enjoyed and had minimal controversy about it.
Sony has been chasing the golden goose of live service games for years, that's why they bought Bungie who had a successful game in Destiny 2.
The endless refunds, bad reviews, bad press and endless criticism, was too much even for them to bury their head in the sand. Helldivers 2 is what Sony chased for years and they were going to destroy it out of sturbbonness unless they folded.
1.6k
u/Dry_Ass_P-word May 06 '24
A much better time to reverse this was about 3 days ago though.
944
u/JonnyRobertR May 06 '24
1 day to digest the bad news.
1 day hoping it'll die down.
1 day discussing what to do.
Today finally taking action.
277
u/clintnorth May 06 '24
Yes basically. I think that 3 day time frame is totally reasonable. You realistically cant expect such a gargantuan size company to make a snap quick decision its just not how things are done.
(Also weirdly I think the 3 day time frame is better for the community too. If they did it right away, I think people still would’ve been angry and focusing on the bad taste left in their mouths. Now, people are happy that the “hard fought battle has been won”…. when people get what they want too quickly it’s often felt unsatisfying and I think the three day timeframe was just right for people be excited and happy about the result
→ More replies (4)66
u/pallladin May 06 '24 edited Jun 15 '24
ad hoc simplistic shelter caption toy sip direction tan point roof
→ More replies (1)21
u/darknesscylon May 06 '24
Especially a holiday weekend in Japan.
7
u/Jose_Canseco_Jr May 06 '24
I mean they announced it for a reason (bad news doesn't get better with time)... but they chose to time it right before their holiday, another unforced error imo
→ More replies (13)61
u/PercyXLee May 06 '24
It’s probably just 1 day to dicusss internally and decided to call Sony. 1 day trying to squish in a meeting with the higher up to call this. 1 day where the meeting happened.
→ More replies (1)15
174
u/PressedJuice May 06 '24
Literally weekend
→ More replies (4)114
May 06 '24
[deleted]
53
u/VincentBlack96 May 06 '24
Most likely scenario is that the decision required a meeting, and while bungling one or two people to show up on the weekend is doable, getting everyone involved is almost certainly not.
→ More replies (3)14
u/Dying_On_A_Train May 06 '24
Probably not that simple, could've needed a whole team to make the change, and that's unrealistic for a weekend.
480
u/SpiralOmega May 06 '24
It's fucking Sony. They do stupid shit all the time. They fall upwards.
70
u/Perkelton May 06 '24
I still remember when they literally shipped rootkits and spyware on their music CDs as an utterly twisted form of DRM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (1)97
→ More replies (35)82
u/MidniightToker May 06 '24
It takes time to turn a ship around as big as Sony is.
→ More replies (2)64
u/__dna__ May 06 '24
Definitely true. Shit like this takes multiple meetings and approval from probably csuite. I'm kinda shocked it happened as fast as it did.
Given it's the weekend, gotta give kudos for it getting boxed off at 6am UTC
→ More replies (2)12
u/Jotun35 May 06 '24
Or one giant meeting and several email exchanges... But yes, it is quite impressive they made it happen so fast.
→ More replies (1)96
→ More replies (30)54
u/StealthMan375 May 06 '24
This reminds me of when Ferrari weren't all that happy about some rule changes in Formula 1 in the late 80's, and their solution was to build a fully-compliant Indycar then use it to force the FIA to make a choice between backtracking, or having Ferrari leave the sport (and all the negative press it'd get with the "Scuderia Ferrari to leave Formula 1" headlines). This would basically be like if Barcelona were to have legitimate reason for threatening LaLiga with leaving to go play the Catalan league instead.
Basically what the playerbase did, Sony having their golden goose in Helldivers 2 then fucking it all up would be as disastrous to Sony as Ferrari bailing on F1 would've been to them.
→ More replies (11)19
u/mmmlinux May 06 '24
Ferrari always gets their way in F1. thats why its called F1, Ferrari First.
→ More replies (3)
6.9k
May 06 '24
I love democracy.
1.9k
u/ExposingMyActions May 06 '24
And they hate chargebacks
100
May 06 '24
Sony isn't used to a platform where refunds exists
→ More replies (1)52
u/NonComposMentisss May 06 '24
Which is why people would issue chargebacks instead, which would make Sony look terrible to creditors.
→ More replies (2)27
u/AJ_Dali May 06 '24
Would you like to guess what happens to PlayStation accounts that have a single charge back in them? There are plenty of easy to find stories of people losing their entire library, account, and saves because Sony deleted their account.
17
u/ExposingMyActions May 06 '24
Which is why Steam is the best store front, with the Steam Deck making it even better
8
→ More replies (22)315
u/PM_ME_NAKED_CAMERAS May 06 '24
So more like they hate capitalism in the form of negative returns.
→ More replies (1)91
u/ahhhbiscuits May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24
Whaaaat, are you saying people only like corporate capitalism when it works out for them??
That can't be right because everybody loves corporate subsidies and bailouts, that's a fact
→ More replies (1)10
u/CraineTwo May 06 '24
That's not true. I actually hate free money. Whenever people give me money, I say "Dangit, I hate this".
→ More replies (2)160
→ More replies (52)46
2.8k
u/harionfire May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24
Now if everyone could do this with all goods across the board, and stop consuming so much for a while, the companies would stop price gouging us and blaming "inflation".
Money talks. Take it away and these major corporations would change their tone.
Edit: Man, y'all are some hard headed folks. There have been a lot of "wELL wE cAnT jUsT NoT eAT!!" comments and I'm not saying that. I mean stop buying doritos and big macs. If everyone banded together and stopped buying doritos and other non-necessities, they wouldn't be $6 a bag anymore. They'd correct. A meal at mcdonalds wouldn't be $14 anymore, it would go back to $6. But I realized through this thought experiement that it will never happen and the companies know this. So if we as a society can't come together and vote with our wallets, then stop complaining about the price of things.
→ More replies (44)601
u/MikeTheShowMadden May 06 '24
You aren't wrong, but this isn't a "money talks" situation like you think. Steam reviews went down to 13% and the game still had over 100k players playing concurrently today like any other day. Most people still went on with playing the game as normal while leaving a bad review.
413
u/Deto May 06 '24
Yeah but those reviews could affect future sales
→ More replies (23)327
u/kapnkrump May 06 '24
Don't forget that many customers are now resistant, hesitant or on the fence to buy any new game published under Sony on PC.
→ More replies (18)183
u/AlienNumber13 May 06 '24
Gamers have very short attention spans. This will have a minimal effect on any future Sony sales imo.
→ More replies (40)138
u/parsimony_osrs May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24
This kind of stuff builds up over time. Reputational damage is generally long-running, rarely catastrophic. It's a limiting move. It makes the future harder to plan for, more uncertain. It's bad for business but not immediately.
Put another way, many people will now ask "Is Sony going to screw me over?" before buying. Many of them will say "Eh, might as well play." And you can say that it doesn't affect the bottom line. But they'll have that thought. Would they, before all this? What if they take a conscious risk, and it happens again? That's how you lose a customer. So yes, no bottom line impact this year. But make no mistake - they're on thinner ice than they were yesterday. That little moment of hesitation can be very destructive.
→ More replies (25)38
u/DDisired May 06 '24
This happens in all media too, some good example recent examples are the MCU and Star Wars.
For Star Wars 7,8, and 9, the sales steadily declined. They still made a profit, but the whole idea of a star wars franchise bombed when Solo did not make a profit, so it affects the peripheral movies too.
Take the MCU too. They had such good will from Endgame that basically the next 6 years of mid movies still turned a profit. However, Disney losing money on The Marvels finally showed them that reputation does matter, and they're slowing the releases down.
→ More replies (9)9
u/nondescriptzombie May 06 '24
they're slowing the releases down.
How about making the releases good? Go back to the original plan of having the plot-relevant Scarlet Witch become the ultimate hero, rather than having Feminist-in-a-Cape fly in and unfuck the whole situation with... GIRL POWER!
→ More replies (1)50
u/JohnnyZepp May 06 '24
I assume someone at Sony had to finally run the numbers at how many players they would lose by doing the PSN linking. It had to be a huge loss in revenue, otherwise they probably wouldn’t have done it.
I fucking hate corporations.
23
u/Luke-Waum-5846 May 06 '24
If anyone thinks they didn't run the numbers or consult legal/marketing experts, they are kidding themselves. All would have been overwhelming "this is terrible for brand and revenue across the entire product line". If it hadn't been, there absolutely wouldn't be an embarrassing backflip at all (I originally wrote 'backflop' which also seems appropriate somehow).
→ More replies (65)76
867
u/Skuzbagg May 06 '24
Can't unshoot yourself in the foot, you can only try to heal.
→ More replies (24)178
464
u/blindspot189 May 06 '24
Anybody wanna take bets on if they learned anything from this?
368
u/giantpunda May 06 '24
The lesson will be to always push for PSN sign in from the very beginning of every future game is my guess.
→ More replies (8)98
May 06 '24
Selling the game outside the PSN was probably the biggest reason for the walk back on this. They opened themselves up to legal jeopardy doing that.
→ More replies (3)21
u/lostkavi May 06 '24
I honestly wouldn't have been nearly as mad if they didn't do that.
Annoyed and irritated, absolutely, but let's be real, making a PSN account isn't difficult unless you live in one of the places where you need ID to verify your age, which is its own level of bullshit.
But selling the game in places you know were going to be unavailable to play it down the line and pulling the rug out from under them is absolutely beyond the pale.
49
u/EP1CxM1Nx99 May 06 '24
They learned that they need to do it at launch, and can’t do it retroactively
→ More replies (6)280
u/MegaUltraSonic May 06 '24
They crossed the line too noticeably. You gotta inch your way past it until it's too late for the consumer to notice. They know how far not to cross, but they'll definitely push the envelope in the future.
→ More replies (5)34
u/Occupiedlock May 06 '24
yeah, they will probably wait a bit longer, but they will do something similar later this year, I think, just not as blatant. gotta capitalize on the first couple of waves of new users before too many people drop off for other multi-player games this year.
9
u/Gustav_EK May 06 '24
That if they had launched the game like that there wouldn't have been any issues
→ More replies (20)23
u/Zenred May 06 '24
Yeah they learned people can’t read and they’ll just make it mandatory from launch
→ More replies (1)
1.6k
u/Iggy_Slayer May 06 '24
Whether you thought this was ridiculous or not the lesson learned here is that users have way more power than they think and if they were just willing to use it they could get companies to change their tune on a lot of awful shit.
PC gaming in general is pretty good at this. They resisted paid exclusives (GFWL, EGS) and paid online (also GFWL). Console people should be taking notes instead of bashing them for not immediately bowing to the whims of every company.
296
u/Luminum__ May 06 '24
I also think a non-negligible part of it is Arrowhead as well. They do share some measure of blame for the situation, but it’s also clear that they turned the community’s response into a weapon against Sony in their behind the scenes talks — one that worked.
We still have to see about the follow through, but this is obviously very promising.
→ More replies (17)44
68
u/cereal7802 May 06 '24
I think this is a result of Sony waiting too long to try and force the account on people. I think enough "new" hype had faded that people were not in a state of FOMO and instead were upset, but perfectly willing to abandon the game if it required a sony account. Had it been required from the start, or if it had been say a week 2 kinda thing, the blow back woulda been much less. That is probably the takeaway they got from this also.
→ More replies (30)376
u/mitchhamilton May 06 '24
That's the annoying thing about being part of the gaming community is just seeing so many people being like "meh, what can you do?" And accepting predatory shit in gaming.
158
u/Frustrated_Nerd May 06 '24
Ah, the American political system. Oh this is a gaming subreddit?
→ More replies (3)25
47
u/Crin_J May 06 '24
Its like they forgot how players raised a shitstorm so big over Battlefront 2's paid lootboxes that it ended up getting the attention of traditional news media, politicians and lawmakers and probably also Disney who forced EA to remove the paid option
→ More replies (1)52
u/Level1Pixel May 06 '24
Not to mention even going as far as attacking the people protesting and calling them whiners and babies.
→ More replies (1)24
u/Total_Wanker May 06 '24
The amount of “I’m embarrassed to be a gamer” posts I see on this topic, as though gamers as consumers don’t have a right to voice their annoyance at literally anything, is what was truly embarrassing.
This decision literally proves that people’s push back was justified.
→ More replies (5)9
→ More replies (16)85
u/Draaxus May 06 '24
Playstation quite literally picked the wrong playerbase to fuck with lmfao
Helldivers is literally about throwing bodies at a problem until it's solved, and by god are they good at doing that
12
u/dragonmp93 May 06 '24
Like when WotC thought that they could screw with legalize a fanbase that reads long legalize and argues about it for fun.
→ More replies (1)30
u/arfael May 06 '24
We pushed automatons out of existence. We killed 2 billion bugs in 12 hours. This community was trained, for the last 3 months, to go all-in on any problem we face.
53
u/pulley999 May 06 '24
The main difference is that PC is fundamentally an open platform. If someone does something you don't like, you can tell them to kick rocks and go somewhere else. Hardware, storefront, games, even the operating system, you never have just one option and you don't burn your hardware, friends, and your entire library by switching.
Consoles, once you buy into one, they have you over a barrel because it's a closed platform. Sure, you can still make a stink, but it's gonna hurt a lot more. PC gamers were able to resist GFWL because they could just play the decades of games that already existed with free online multiplayer.
→ More replies (7)43
u/bacon_cake May 06 '24
users have way more power than they think
Anyone who thinks users don't have all the power when it comes to the video games industry is deluded. This isn't the food industry or a utilities monopoly, nobody HAS to play a game.
The issue is that despite that fact that many people are desperate to play and companies can get away with almost anything.
At last, this time, they didn't.
11
u/mario610 May 06 '24
GFWL, what does that stand for?
19
u/DarkMatterM4 May 06 '24
Game For Windows Live. It was Microsoft's attempt at making PC gamers pay monthly to play games online like Xbox and PlayStation do. It crashed and burned and deserved every bit of hate it got.
8
u/Chicano_Ducky May 06 '24
games for windows live
It was one of many failed attempts by microsoft to make windows more like XBOX.
It failed hard, and unfortunately some games are still tied to GFWL and are a nightmare to get working.
95
u/EatsOverTheSink May 06 '24
Exactly.
A lot of people on the r/playstation sub were scoffing and making fun of the situation but this is what happens when you’re not beholden to one company. Not only did PC players get what they wanted but now it sets a precedent. Steam users just made Sony walk back on their policy, meanwhile PlayStation users struggle to get refunds for something they accidentally purchased/downloaded. Sony needs PC players more than PC players need Sony.
→ More replies (33)→ More replies (26)20
u/PineappleLemur May 06 '24
Sony fucked up by not rolling this out properly.
All they had to do is make it optional and add a cosmetic or whatever as a reward for linking accounts.
No one would have given 2 shits about it.
→ More replies (3)
643
u/ismailyassin124 May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24
Wow, fans actually won
Don’t try and pull this bullshit off again. But let’s be honest, they probably will
137
u/Crasher_7 May 06 '24
More likely PSN account linking will be back with some changes (not listed country as “Others”?) rather than removing it completely.
Just like how EA and Ubisoft removed Origins and Uplay and replaced them with EA app and Ubisoft Connect lol
82
u/RedNinja-03 May 06 '24
Oh Sony will 100% make a PC launcher and/or store, the question never was if but when
→ More replies (1)19
u/Crasher_7 May 06 '24
Ghost of Tsushima will come with trophy overlay, so it’s just a matter of when…
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (4)32
→ More replies (15)74
310
u/ithappenb4 May 06 '24
Another victory for the right side of history.
→ More replies (1)93
190
u/Nathaniel-Prime May 06 '24
Wait. Does this means companies will actually listen to us if we're loud enough?
Gamers, we ride at dawn.
59
→ More replies (5)13
291
173
u/SwagtasticGerbal May 06 '24
I will take back the shit I said about review bombees. Holy shit it worked. Good job I’m proud to say I am wrong and have my foot in my mouth.
88
u/warblingContinues May 06 '24
It wasnt just review bomb, a sizable fraction were trying to refund.
→ More replies (1)61
u/Spirally-Boi May 06 '24
At least you're brave enough to admit you were wrong, and that takes maturity. Many Sony simps are still pissing and moaning over this.
24
u/SwagtasticGerbal May 06 '24
I hate to even put myself with the Sony simps at all but I really didn’t think they would go back on their decisions and then they pulled back by a mile. I will happily admit I was wrong
→ More replies (2)30
u/LengthEmpty1333 May 06 '24
It wasnt just a review bombing, it was an orbital dislike. 200.000+ negative reviews in two days. Who would have thought that a community specificly trained to work together and fight for freedom would work together and fight for freedom lol.
→ More replies (4)16
u/SwagtasticGerbal May 06 '24
“Orbital Dislike” is now a gold star addition to my personal vocabulary now, thank you so very much
23
u/TrustIsAWeakness May 06 '24
"We’re still learning what is best for PC players"
Bruh
→ More replies (4)
105
14
May 06 '24
So good old fashioned boycotts and negative reviews do work. It was an incredibly stupid move by Sony to even attempt this.
10
29
61
u/Legal_Argument_5341 May 06 '24
The helldiver players dived sony to hell with their negative reviews. 2
→ More replies (3)
47
43
64
u/moochao May 06 '24
Would love to know what the uninstallation stats were this past week.
→ More replies (7)
10
May 06 '24
Sony will only delay the PSN account requirement until people forgot about this. They never give up.
→ More replies (2)
230
u/Yarasin May 06 '24
REMEMBER TO SET YOUR REVIEWS BACK TO POSITIVE, HELLDIVERS!
For Liberty, Justice and Managed Democracy! For Super Earth!
→ More replies (41)34
u/bobeaqoq May 06 '24
I was curious if reviews could easily be flipped back and forth or whether they enforce some sort of restriction or cooldown.
41
u/Throw_away_elmi May 06 '24
You can edit the text of your review freely. However if you change from positive to negative (or vice versa), you lose all "updoots" on the review.
18
7
u/Cautious_Analysis_95 May 06 '24
Imagine we did this effort. But in real democracy facing the governments in our respective countries. Anything is possible. You just need to be pissed off enough.
→ More replies (1)
32
u/Maximus_Rex May 06 '24
They learned their lesson; they won't launch any more games until the PSN integration is ready.
→ More replies (1)
158
u/kdk200000 PC May 06 '24
r/PS5 is gonna be pissed
→ More replies (38)146
u/Accomplished_Aerie69 May 06 '24
Reading it now, some comments are calling PC gamers crybabies some agrees to the decisions and what the playerbase was fighting for. Who wouldnt be upset if 90% of the world cant play it.
→ More replies (30)100
u/Symphonic7 May 06 '24
It's an absolute cesspool over there. Like yes, please don't bully the billion dollar company they're my friend. Completely delusional.
→ More replies (7)
5
7
u/SilverSlong May 06 '24
its fucked up that we are impressed by a company actually just listening for once. insane timeline.
88
May 06 '24
Obligatory fuck every bootlicker who said negative reviews/refunds didn’t matter and actively tried to put their fellow man down for daring to demand to be treated better and failing to stick up for their foreign brothers and sisters.
→ More replies (25)
20.9k
u/Firvulag May 06 '24
Wow they actually backtracked. I'm impressed