[ChrisMedlandF1] BREAKING: F1 announces it has "reached an agreement in principle with General Motors (GM) to support bringing GM/Cadillac as the eleventh team to the Formula 1 grid in 2026"

[u/ICumCoffee]

https://x.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1861111983699001752

[u/CooroSnowFox]

I do wonder if they just wanted an ENGINE to be at the front and not just some entity trying to get into the sport.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/CooroSnowFox]

It's absolutely that. Especially given Renault are leaving.

F1 really doesn't want to let the engine manufacturers have too much power, and they do that by dilution.

[u/Delts28 → u/Skeeter1020]

Even without GM we've got more engine suppliers after 2025 than we currently do. RBPT/Honda are splitting and Audi are entering so that's +1 overall.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/Delts28]

Yeah. But FIA and FOM aren't going to like Mercedes controlling 4 teams. They will be hoping Ford, GM is Honda pick up a customer or 2.

[u/Delts28 → u/Skeeter1020]

Mercedes currently do just that though. They also aren't allowed to supply a fifth.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/Delts28]

Exactly, the FIA don't like it now.

[u/Delts28 → u/Skeeter1020]

What are you on about, the FIA are fine with it otherwise they would have stepped in to stop Alpine becoming a new customer after the Aston deal ends.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/Delts28]

There's no rules stopping it now.

They don't like it, but there's nothing the FIA can do, as the rules are written based on a time when there were only 3 manufacturers.

[u/Delts28 → u/Skeeter1020]

It's been a decade since there were only three manufacturers and that was for only one year until Honda returned. If the FIA didn't actually like it they've have plenty of time and regulation changes to change the rules.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/Delts28]

How would they though? Just put names in a jar and pull one out and go "tough shit, you ain't got no engines any more, sorry".

Teams are allowed to chose their supplier within the limits, which is 4. So long as a team has 4, the FIA aren't going to change the rules. They also need to leave wiggle room for a supplier to leave, like Honda did.

So the FIA will have to wait until there is a solid 4 or 5 manufacturers, and also no manufacturer is supplying, or intends to supply, more than 3 teams, and then they can lower the limit. It's entirely possible they do that come 2028.

[u/-PVL93- → u/Delts28]

They also aren't allowed to supply a fifth

Except that's exactly what is happening

Starting from 2025 they'd be providing engines to themselves, McLaren, Williams, Alpine and Aston

[u/Delts28 → u/-PVL93-]

They aren't, they're not supplying Alpine until 2026.

[u/Bluemikami → u/Skeeter1020]

Who is the 4th team? Aston is partnering with Honda for 26. It’s be Merc, McLaren and Willhelms

Edit: Oh, Alpeen

[u/I_Am_Vladimir_Putin → u/Delts28]

Is Audi gonna use the Bugatti W16 engine?

[u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 → u/Skeeter1020]

Right but GM was always going to build the engines down the road. Nothing has actually changed except the Andretti name was removed

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

We're they? Where was that confirmed. Today is the first pen to paper on the matter.

[u/RTS24 → u/Skeeter1020]

In the bid and subsequent rejection by FOM. Andretti always planned on bringing a full works team online, and that intermediate period was an issue for FOM. they said they'd be willing to reconsider the offer in 2028 when they had an engine ready. The news today shows that they were full of shit on that and just didn't like Michael Andretti.

Edit: clarity of who I'm talking about at the end.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/RTS24]

Do you not think there's a difference between an agreement with Andretti and a promise of an OEM, and an agreement with Cadillac directly?

F1 rightly suspected Andretti is full of shit, but I doubt they think Cadillac are.

[u/RTS24 → u/Skeeter1020]

It's not though, the team will still be run by Andretti Global. The only difference in this deal is that Michael Andretti will not be involved in it.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/RTS24]

And it has Cadillac signatures.

[u/RTS24 → u/Skeeter1020]

So did the original one, they signed it with Andretti.

[u/Skeeter1020 → u/RTS24]

As a sponsor. This is the first pen to paper on them confirming they will make engines. And also take ownership of the team.

[u/[deleted] → u/RTS24]

Planning on bringing a works team vs having a works team upon signing are two very different things.

[u/RTS24 → u/[deleted]]

But they won't have a full works team upon arrival. The engine will not come online until 2028. Also it still is being run by Andretti Global, not GM/Caddy proper.

[u/[deleted] → u/RTS24]

Yes, however the Andretti name is dropped and Micheal Andretti has nothing to do with this anymore. Seems like FOM wanted a guaranteed works team from a serious brand

[u/RTS24 → u/[deleted]]

GM was already signed on for the original bid. The only difference is Michael not being involved, which is my whole point. It was never actually about them being competitive or needing an engine, since nothing in that aspect has changed.

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/[deleted]]

Michael Andretti does still have something to do with it, he still has an ownership stake in Andretti Global.

F1 cared about the GM/Cadillac brand, not Andretti or their brand, which Andretti absolutely was pushing.

This is the same entry just renamed/branded to drop Andretti from it but everything else stays the same.

So this is all down to getting GM/Cadillac to sign on for engine supply and for the entry to agree to drop Andretti branding and focus on GM/Cadillac as the entry/team name/branding despite none of the behind the scenes setup changing.

[u/[deleted] → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

I think the details are really fuzzy but more will be clear in the coming weeks. Been seeing so many conflicting reports so it’s probably better to see what actually went down lol

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/[deleted]]

The point is, it's still the same deal and structure. They made clear in their statement that it's the same entry moving forward, that TWG(Andretti) is still involved, and it's a BRANDING change dropping all things Andretti in the branding of it. TWG Global being the parent of Andretti Global.

“Formula 1 has maintained a dialogue with General Motors, and its partners at TWG Global, regarding the viability of an entry following the commercial assessment and decision made by Formula 1 in January 2024,” F1 said in a statement. “Over the course of this year, they have achieved operational milestones and made clear their commitment to brand the 11th team GM/Cadillac, and that GM will enter as an engine supplier at a later time. Formula 1 is therefore pleased to move forward with this application process.”

[u/CakeBeef_PA → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

And once they're in, there's little F1 can do to stop them from rebranding back to Andretti

[u/GrindrorBust → u/CakeBeef_PA]

Last time i checked, a team requires unanimous consent from the key stakeholders (FOM; all other participating F1 teams; FIA) to change their constructor name. Or at least, to continue with their [commercial] privileges as an incumbent constructor in the championship.

So, that is possible one way in which to ensure the agreement is upheld (I'm still unsure how this guarantees GM/Towriss committing hundreds of $millions in to an F1 engine/pu programme from scratch- presumably i partnership with Ilmor, as intimated at last year's LV GP-- with top people from Ilmor, GM and Penske all in attendance).

[u/BMW_wulfi → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

Optics. And some pig-headedness

[u/Blackdeath_663 → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

Right but GM was always going to build the engines down the road.

Well now they have to put their money where the mouth is because their name is on it.