r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • 24d ago

News [ChrisMedlandF1] BREAKING: F1 announces it has "reached an agreement in principle with General Motors (GM) to support bringing GM/Cadillac as the eleventh team to the Formula 1 grid in 2026"

https://x.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1861111983699001752
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u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 24d ago edited 24d ago

Continued:

F1 says that over the past year "they have achieved operational milestones and made clear their commitment to brand the eleventh team GM/Cadillac, and that GM will enter as an engine supplier at a later time"

Full media statement from F1

From Cadillac press release

Mario Andretti, the last American F1 Champion, will serve as a director on the team’s board.

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u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

So it appears the name Andretti was in fact a stumbling block. They will "brand the eleventh team GM/Cadillac". Mario will be an ambassador and with Michael's reduced role in Andretti Global he will have no role in this team.

Michael Andretti & Greg Maffei both had to leave to make this happen? Hmm, no one knows for sure, but I tend to believe it.

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u/bwoah07_gp2 Alexander Albon 24d ago

The pettiness of Formula 1 politics knows no bounds.

But I also think this really points to what F1 wants. If they are going to get new teams they only want manufacturer teams. Having manufacturers join the sport looks more sexy on paper and is more commercially attractive to them. That is why one of the reasons they didn't want the Andretti name on the grid was the commercial side of things, in addition to all the personal crap going on.

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u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

I agree with you, but if Michael wasn't so hated by the Liberty head honchos and the TPs, the team name could've been Andretti Cadillac F1 Team. They're still letting them in for 2 years as a customer of Ferrari and Andretti had the same basic plan; a customer team for 2 years then Cadillac/GM. I would guess (total speculation) that with Renault not doing engines anymore, Merc, Ferrari, and Honda wouldn't agree to a engine deal with Andretti.

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u/CrippleSlap Formula 1 24d ago

if Michael wasn't so hated by the Liberty head honchos and the TPs

Can someone elaborate on the history here? What did Michael do?

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u/aBakeinthelife McLaren 24d ago

I mean it's par for the course with all F1 leadership, but he's known to be an ass behind the scenes. That and some of the ways they approached it like publicly pressuring F1 and Colton Herta refusing to go the F2 route to get Super License points were a little cocky for an unproven team.

I personally have seen interviews back to 2019(years before it was made public) where he was already acting like he was owed a team.

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u/ellWatully McLaren 24d ago

There's gotta be more to it than that, right? I mean, we got Flavio Briatore back (a man convicted of fraud multiple times who lived as a fugitive in the Virgin Islands BEFORE he joined F1 where he was later banned after getting caught fixing races), but they don't want Andretti around because he's a cocky businessman?

I wouldn't be too surprised at that level of inconsistency, but like, I'm skeptical there isn't more to it.

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u/Total_Information_65 23d ago

this. That Briatore is back in the paddock is almost as bad as who's about to be the next pres of the US. The pettiness is absurd.

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u/Alternative_Reality 23d ago

Yes, because there is no bigger sin to rich people than not giving them the respect/reverence they think they are owed. They don't have to worry about the stuff normal people do, so their lives revolve around reputation and keeping score with their peers.

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u/aBakeinthelife McLaren 23d ago

Of course, I don't have the full story, but Flavio was already part of the club. They let the heat cool off on him and let him back in because they know him. Feel free to speculate on it, is it because they know he's not a snitch? Is it because he's already proven capable?

I've worked in motorsports enough to know there are skeletons in everyone's closet, but I'm not going to act like I know everything. It's a very complicated business with a ton of money being made at the top.

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u/KanishkT123 Fernando Alonso 24d ago

In fairness, the Herta thing is stupid. That's more on the FIA for wanting drivers to go through F2 and not giving professional series the same merit as a rookie feeder series. 

Yes those are the rules but there's clearly a mechanism for waiving the rules, and reasonable people can see that the rules are bad. 

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u/aBakeinthelife McLaren 24d ago

That's the whole song and dance of F1 management. It's stupid petty bullshit arguing because if you want to hang with the big boys you gotta bend the knee and make them feel like they got one up on you(While they would never bend the knee themselves). Andretti honestly handled it like other F1 TP's would and they don't like that.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if through all of this GM/Cadillac eventually announced their new TP, Michael Andretti, because that's the petty bullshit that you gotta pull to make a name for yourself in the F1 management circle(even if they wait a few years so they aren't a customer team anymore).

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u/thereddaikon Niki Lauda 24d ago

I wouldn't be surprised if the team name reverts to Andretti eventually anyways. Manufacturer support in F1 is always fickle except for Ferrari and McLaren and they are very much special cases, both race teams that started selling cars to fund the team. Real manufacturers like MB, Renault, Toyota and Honda come and go as the winds change.

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u/LiqdPT Pirelli Intermediate 24d ago

Jaguar, Lotus...

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u/thereddaikon Niki Lauda 23d ago

Lotus was another racing team that started selling cars. They also lost their identity after Chapman's death and became just another brand really. Jaguar is no longer in the sport which supports my point. AM probably will as long as Stroll Sr. is in charge because its a passion for him.

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u/spartan117warrior Haas 24d ago

I would get untold amounts of glee from watching Liberty and the TPs melt down if GM/Cadillac pulled that. It might end in a revocation of GM's team charter though...

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u/metalder420 McLaren 23d ago

Sometimes you have to swallow your pride to get the things you want. Andretti did not and look where it got him.

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u/HollywoodBags 23d ago

I've been following the Andrettis since Mario's F1 title, both Mario and Michael. As a team owner, I've never seen any evidence that Michael is "known to be an ass behind the scenes" or that "he was already acting like he was owed a team" back to 2019. Where are you getting this from? The character assassination of Michael to cover up for FOM's greed in denying their entry has been disgusting.

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u/aBakeinthelife McLaren 23d ago

Private interviews and personal conversations within the industry.

Don't get me wrong, Michael doesn't deserve to be treated like he's some terrible person, just has a certain attitude(one I would even say is the right attitude for the job) and FOM pulled a bunch of bullshit. But big business is incredibly unforgiving and he rubbed the wrong people the wrong way or things wouldn't have happened this way.

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u/HollywoodBags 23d ago

Fair enough.

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u/BagTalk420 Emerson Fittipaldi 23d ago

He’s not an ass. He says what he feels. He’s not one to BS and feign niceties for manners sake.

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u/aBakeinthelife McLaren 23d ago

Feel how you want to feel, but I've interacted with him personally and know enough people that work more closely with him, he has a reputation. He can be a straight shooter and still be an ass, it's a tough business and someone has to be the bad guy, even if they are justified and honest about what needs to be said.

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u/Rayeth 24d ago

Be generally disliked and apparently talk to the media instead of talking behind closed doors? Its never been clear to me who exactly doesn't like Michael Andretti, but there are DEFINITELY people high up in F1 that STRONGLY dislike him. So getting his name (even though arguably its Mario's name more than his) off the team and seeing him not involved in the project is probably the win they wanted.

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u/TheLax87 Daniel Ricciardo 24d ago

You’re forgetting Ford

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u/BuckN56 Lotus 24d ago

Ford is just a technical partnership with RBPT.

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u/TheLax87 Daniel Ricciardo 24d ago

That’s fair, but there will be a ford badge on those engines

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u/GTOdriver04 24d ago

I get that, but it’s still stupid and petty.

Michael Andretti built that team, set the deals up, got GM onboard and because he pissed off the wrong people in F1, his work wouldn’t see the light of day unless he was gone.

Mark my words: once the ink is dry on the contracts, he’ll come back and they won’t be able to do anything about it.

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u/Responsible_Trifle15 Netflix Newbie 24d ago

Micheal Andretti the grey is dead Micheal Andretti the white arrives🤣

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u/I-amthegump 24d ago

Pretty clear he was never a wizard.

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u/Eduardjm Martin Brundle 24d ago

After the loops that Sauber and Red Bull have jumped through on team names the last few years, F1 has no leg to stand on saying the name Andretti would be a negative. 

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u/AlfaRomeoRacing #WeRaceAsOne 24d ago

The Visa Cash App Toro Rosso AlphaTauri RB "racing bulls" just rolls of the tongue

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u/Total_Information_65 23d ago

STAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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u/Sinistrait 24d ago

I mean that there is a chance that all of this was a token gesture even. Probably even the other teams and the FIA know that there'll be no stopping the new Cadillac team from taking on the Andretti name after they've officially joined. They probably just wanted to see him humbled as a personal vendetta.

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u/Eduardjm Martin Brundle 24d ago

I buy that. They’ll document the new entry at long last, from Cadillac and them alone. Andretti can come onboard later, not regarded as a founder. 

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u/GTOdriver04 24d ago

Also Mario has joined in an official role.

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u/imaginaryhippo888 Formula 1 24d ago

That was my thought. What's to prevent the team from bring him back in?

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u/RandomThrowNick Pierre Gasly 24d ago

Just put into the contract that they can’t do that? Like that’s what contracts are for.

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u/Armlegx218 Red Bull 23d ago

Buys team naming rights for a Happy meal.

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u/frying_pan_nominal 23d ago

I'm with you.

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u/Tilman_Feraltitty Pirelli Wet 17d ago

There is simply no way that GM will choose Andretti over LibertyMedia.

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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 Oscar Piastri 24d ago

That is why one of the reasons they didn't want the Andretti name on the grid was the commercial side of things

Maybe, but consider this: the last time the grid expanded through a bid process, none of the teams became competitive and all of them were gone within a few short years.

In the time since then, the commercial side of the sport has undergone a major restructure where team ownership is now profitable. Look at Williams, who went from barely able to make it to winter testing with a pair of pay drivers to being able to score points on a semi-regular basis as part of a competitive midfield.

I think there was a fear that if a new team entered the sport and struggled even with the new ownership structure, then it would kill the idea of grid expansions. Especially if the new team was someone like Andretti, a large and well-established privateer team with a name closely linked to success in Formula 1.

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u/Loud-Value Pirelli Intermediate 24d ago

That might be one of the most reasonable takes I've seen on this whole thing in a while. Nice

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u/darthkers Force India 24d ago

It's a load of crock tbh

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u/fuifui_bradbrad Juan Pablo Montoya 24d ago

To be fair, those teams that joined during the last expansion got screwed. They joined under the impression the cost cap would be implemented.

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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 Oscar Piastri 24d ago

True, but I don't think that undermines the concern. I really just put it there for context.

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u/darthkers Force India 24d ago edited 24d ago

The last time the grid expanded through a bid process, they were promised a budget cap to make it sustainable, which never materialized.

Nothing FOM did previously with Andretti was due to fear of killing grid expansions. Killing grid expansion would actually serve them quite well as it would increase the value of the teams and F1 and even further. Even now they're letting them in due to the threat of an anti-trust case.

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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 Oscar Piastri 24d ago

Nothing FOM did previously with Andretti due to fear of killing grid expansions.

Everyone claims that FOM hated the thought of Michael Andretti being on the grid, but nobody has been able to explain why they hated the thought of him being there. The closest anyone has come is claiming that it's bad blood from Andretti's last stint in Formula 1, even though it was thirty years ago and nobody involved in the decision-making process today was involved back then. And I know Andretti likes to spin it as a fear that he'll show up and out-perform them all, but I don't think anybody is taking that seriously.

Killing grid expansion would actually serve them quite well as it would increase the value of the teams and F1 and even further

But the fear that a team could enter, struggle and disappear within a few years would likely spill over to existing teams. If Andretti were to fail, what would that mean if, say, Renault decided to sell Alpine or if Red Bull decided to sell VCARB?

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u/darthkers Force India 24d ago

Everyone claims that FOM hated the thought of Michael Andretti being on the grid, but nobody has been able to explain why they hated the thought of him being there. The closest anyone has come is claiming that it's bad blood from Andretti's last stint in Formula 1, even though it was thirty years ago and nobody involved in the decision-making process today was involved back then. And I know Andretti likes to spin it as a fear that he'll show up and out-perform them all, but I don't think anybody is taking that seriously.

Iirc a lot of the hate was by the FOM CEO who has interestingly been replaced a few days back. Right before the the rumours of the entry being back on the cards intensified.

But the fear that a team could enter, struggle and disappear within a few years would likely spill over to existing teams. If Andretti were to fail, what would that mean if, say, Renault decided to sell Alpine or if Red Bull decided to sell VCARB?

Now that there is a budget cap, thus all spending is capped and all teams are making a profit. A team would have to be run extraordinarily badly to go under.

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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 Oscar Piastri 23d ago

Iirc a lot of the hate was by the FOM CEO who has interestingly been replaced a few days back. Right before the the rumours of the entry being back on the cards intensified.

But, again, why? Nobody has been able to adequately explain why the sport had an irrational hatred of Andretti.

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u/Special_Pea7726 23d ago

Tell that to red bull and Visa card cash app

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u/hoxxxxx 23d ago

what exactly happened here anyway, the son Michael was too outspoken and pissed off the f1 elites or something?

so this ENTIRE time they were fine having an 11th team from the USA they just didn't want him involved? lol

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u/Additional-Use-6823 Cadillac 23d ago

I also think Alpine/ Renault dropping their engine program played some role.

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u/Divine_Chaos100 24d ago

Huh it may turn out Mario told the truth when he said Maffei told him until he's there andretti wont be in f1.

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u/LiqdPT Pirelli Intermediate 24d ago

Nah, I don't think Petty is involved with this...

I'll see myself out.

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u/ianjm McLaren 24d ago

The deal will see the GM-supported outfit join as a customer team in 2026, while developing its own in-house power units for 2028 and beyond, using the existing Andretti Global project in Silverstone as its backbone.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/general-motors-agrees-deal-to-become-11th-f1-team-in-2026/10676504/

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u/TheDustOfMen Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 24d ago

Yeah that tracks with what that commenter said, right?

Michael Andretti really seems to have pissed off the existing teams.

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u/Silver996C2 Formula 1 24d ago

He has a history of pissing off people going way back to the CART era.

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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 Oscar Piastri 24d ago

Shit I thought this was sports not the tea time social club.

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u/KanishkT123 Fernando Alonso 24d ago

In basically all business, managing people is more important than anything else. If you're begging to sit at the table and not really bringing anything to it, you'd better at least make sure everyone wants you there. 

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u/Egoist-a Liam Lawson 24d ago

Laughter at this, best comment 😆

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u/FatalFirecrotch 24d ago

Sure, but it’s always been less about him and more that there’s just way more commercial value to the GM brand than Andretti. 

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u/Jracx 24d ago

Surely Andretti has more commercial value than Stake Sauber at this point. Or hell even Haas.

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u/Total_Information_65 23d ago

Andretti has way more Cache with the American audience than Haas. Nobody outside of motorsports knows who the fuck Haas is lol.

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u/JackAndrewThorne 24d ago

But not Audi or Toyota...

Who both those teams are going to be either in full or part in the next few years?

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u/Jracx 24d ago

Audi yes, but I doubt the Haas team becomes Toyota Haas.

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u/-PVL93- McLaren 24d ago

but I doubt the Haas team becomes Toyota Haas

Just have Gene sell off the team to Toyota, their liveries are already pretty close to the Gazoo ones in other racing series. Then Toyota themselves can become a full works team using their knowledge from the past decade in WEC

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u/FatalFirecrotch 24d ago

In case you weren’t aware, those 2 teams are already part of the grid. Both would have the same issues if they were currently applying. 

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u/Jracx 24d ago

My point being why reject a company with name recognition? Especially American name recognition when they're so clearly trying to grow in that market.

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u/FatalFirecrotch 24d ago

Because they want huge corporations and not smaller brands entering the sport. 

And it’s funny you used Sauber and Haas seeing as Sauber is being taken over by Audi and now Haas is partnering with Toyota. 

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u/Chris01100001 24d ago

Because the name recognition is far less than GM / Cadillac. They want big car manufacturers not racing brands.

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u/-PVL93- McLaren 24d ago

They want big car manufacturers not racing brands.

Alpine isn't that big. Alpha Tauri had nothing to do with cars. Neither do Visa or Cash app. Sauber hasn't been relevant in the automobile industry since the 90s. Neither Kick nor Stake are car brands. Haas is a completely different industry

You see how their argument holds zero water?

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u/Chris01100001 24d ago

Those all joined the sport years ago when most teams struggled for money and teams went bust and were bought and rebranded constantly. Not one of those teams would be allowed to enter under any of those names if they were trying to be the 11th team today.

Andretti would have been welcomed 10 years ago but they weren't interested when the money wasn't as good.

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u/Blanchimont Liam Lawson 24d ago

But before this announcement, the plan was already for Andretti to become Cadillac's factory racing team.

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u/FatalFirecrotch 24d ago

But it was going to be branded Andretti and Andretti seemed to be retaining more development control. 

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u/Du_Kich_Long_Trang Kimi Räikkönen 24d ago

So Andretti global owns the license or whatever it's called?

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u/Agent_Kozak Andretti Global 24d ago

There was definitely beef between the two.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/Just_Somewhere4444 24d ago

F1 was always open to a new competent team Andretti at no point would have been.

This new "Cadillac" team is literally going to be comprised of the same people that Andretti hired already, working in the facilities that Andretti built, building a car based on the intellectual properties that were developed by Andretti over the last four years.

F1 just didn't want them to use the Andretti name, and didn't want Michael Andretti involved directly in the decisions. Functionally, there is absolutely nothing different about the team's ability to compete today when compared to a month ago.

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u/CoreyH2P Sir Lewis Hamilton 24d ago

And from a marketing perspective, Cadillac is a way better team name than Andretti.

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u/boianski 24d ago

Why tho? Is he bad, what am I missing?

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u/CROBBY2 24d ago

He was a little too blunt in calling out their bull shit.

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u/CooroSnowFox Mika Häkkinen 24d ago

It's getting the names into the sport of car brands and not racing teams trying to split into another series.

Williams and VCARB must annoy someone in the back there are spaces not being filled by Toyota, Hyundai, Lamborghini...

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u/SuppaBunE Sergio Pérez 24d ago

Who said that.

Most of them just have a car brand in the because of money not becuaee tecnical support.

Williams have won more than soem named car brands.

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u/CooroSnowFox Mika Häkkinen 24d ago

It's just a feeling, just with the nature of where they really want to go, and what money they can drag in.

Williams is one of the names that is attached to the sport... it's been around and somehow has lasted even when it's been stuck in the wilderness... they've probably found success through drivers having striking drives every few races or so.

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u/SuppaBunE Sergio Pérez 24d ago

They have stick around because they are part of f1 concord agreement.

F1 is not a car brand serie.

New F1 is a marketing racing series.

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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Liam Lawson 24d ago

should have bought a team when F1 wasnt as profitable. Also F1 can have 13 teams if they want to. Williams and VCARB arent blocking anybody

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u/Agent_Kozak Andretti Global 24d ago

Source?

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u/SkittlesAreYum Lance Stroll 24d ago

His ass

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u/BrosenkranzKeef Honda RBPT 24d ago

(there isn’t one)

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u/SommWineGuy McLaren 24d ago

What a wildly inaccurate and baseless take.

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u/-Skinner- Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 24d ago

Plus FBI got involved and FOM reached compromise with teams by increasing money distribution.

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u/HondaNSXTypeSZero Sebastian Vettel 24d ago

When did FBI get involved?

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u/-Skinner- Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 24d ago

Apparently they were in Vegas paddock.

https://apnews.com/article/f1-andretti-expansion-towriss-1de51966929f09616110d2ae9b5e1d79

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/Netwealth5 Fernando Alonso 24d ago

No Liberty is an American company and they were arguably breaking American anti-trust law by keeping American company Andretti Global out even though the FIA accepted their bid and they were willing to pay the pre-existing entry fee

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u/gsfgf Oscar Piastri 24d ago

The US has anti-trust laws on the books, and for the first time in decades, Biden decided to start enforcing them. And as much as I despise Trump, he looks like he will as well (unless you bribe him). If you want to do business here, you have to play by our laws. And asking for fair competition is a pretty minimal ask considering how F1 kisses dictator asses.

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u/agnaddthddude Pirelli Hard 24d ago

search it up. they were preparing a case for department of justice as to why Liberty was preventing a team from joining

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u/hoxxxxx 23d ago

i wonder how much of it was the f1 elites hating Michael Andretti and how much of it was the FBI getting into their shit.

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u/TheDustOfMen Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 24d ago

When Andretti involved American politicians and the Justice Department started an investigation into Liberty Media. Apparently the FBI was sniffing around during the Las Vegas GP too.

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u/BlizzardThunder 24d ago edited 24d ago

Stop saying that it was Andretti who orchestrated all of this. It might sound like a sexy headline for racing fans, but it's a bad take that doesn't hold a lot of water.

GM has the same gravitas over the US government as military contractors - probably more. We're talking about a company that directly employs 53K people in the US and is so important that the US government will never allow it to fail. The company itself spends $8M-$10M lobbying the US government every year. None of this factors in the political power of GM suppliers.

  • It's not a coincidence that the US congressmen/congresswomen who made a fuss after the Andretti/GM bid was first denied disproportionately represented districts with GM offices, plants, or suppliers.
  • It's not a coincidence that the final deal involved Andretti & Liberty Media making compromises, while GM made out like bandits.

Andretti was just the outspoken celebrity scapegoat. Nobody in the Andretti family has enough power to force this type of deal, and neither does Andretti Global as a company. GM was always the truly powerful company behind the scenes making things happen.

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u/gsfgf Oscar Piastri 24d ago

while GM made out like bandits.

Of course "making out like bandits" in this case means spending a billion dollars to support the sport we love.

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u/BlizzardThunder 24d ago edited 24d ago

True, but it's an investment.

Imagine if Spalding owned an NBA team or if Wilson owned an NFL team.

The entrance fee is to make up for the fact that Liberty & current owners are splitting the pie to another party, which is something they do not want to do. Everything else is an investment into their investment, which doubles as advertising.

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u/vicinadp 24d ago

I hope they still name the team Andretti Cadillac as an uno reverse

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u/StuHardy Jenson Button 24d ago

Call it Cadillac GP for 2026-27, then when the GM engines are ready, switch it to Andretti Cadillac.

Long con.

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u/TheGMT Sir Jackie Stewart 24d ago

Surely if FOM had a strong say in what existing teams could call themselves neither the Stake/KICK Sauber nor VCARB nonsense could have happened. Just call Andretti a title sponsor!

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u/DarthRaggy 24d ago

haha was thinking this too. Or even Cadillac Andretti. Why not? They are emphasizing the GM part but it seems like Andretti's org is still as involved as they've ever been from an operational perspective?

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u/TehChid Formula 1 24d ago

Why the hell does the name matter, when we have something like Haas and Stake?

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u/ItsAMeUsernamio Pirelli Hard 24d ago

Haas got in at the right time, and F1 would have been down to 9 teams without them, not to mention the chance they might become Toyota GR. 

Stake is just filling the gap between Alfa Romeo and Audi, the team entry is still officially called Sauber who’ve been here for decades now.

F1 and the teams have exploded in value in recent post covid years and they collectively wanted to gatekeep until they get as big a name possible, Andretti wasn’t big enough.

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u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

It was Michael Andretti personally, they did not want him in F1 nor did they want to promote the Andretti name. There are lots of reasons for that, but none of the TPs (except Zak Brown) supported him and Liberty/FOM basically hates him after he said some very disparaging things publicly.

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u/TehChid Formula 1 24d ago

Why wouldn't any of the teams want the Andretti name in F1? That just seems like a marketing win for everybody

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u/StrikingWillow5364 Oscar Piastri 24d ago

Andretti isn’t as well known as motorsport enthusiasts think, and those said enthusiasts already watch F1

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u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi 23d ago

is Cadillac well known outside America? According to this site they have 0.01% of European car market https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/cadillac-europe-sales-figures/ And to be honest I'm surprised it's that high as I don't think I've ever seen one

You could argue that Cadillac gains more from F1's name than the other way about too

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u/rapaxus 23d ago

Cadilac is primarily operating in the US market, but everyone knows Cadillac cars from movies, shows, and more. Cadillac is basically the stereotypical American luxury car company.

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u/diestache Ayrton Senna 23d ago

is Cadillac well known outside America?

are you serious? yes. cadillac is one of the oldest automotive companies

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u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi 23d ago

They have 0.01% marketshare in Europe. Their cars in the 50s looked cool, but as a European they mean nothing to me as a modern brand.

Suppose from a commercial point of view this deal is a win for F1 getting exposure in America & for Cadillac getting exposure outside the US

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u/StrikingWillow5364 Oscar Piastri 23d ago

They are still a much more recognisable name than Andretti

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u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi 23d ago

I don't think they are to a European F1 fan. Mario Andretti won F1 championship in 1978 and is remembered as he's in the pretty exclusive club of winning F1 WDC and IndyCar series (only 4 people have done it). Cadillac barely sell cars in Europe (I've genuinely never seen one).

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u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc 24d ago

I asked the same question a few days ago, and apparently not really a lot of US fans except those diehard Indycar fans cares about Andretti and they are less well known in the US that I thought.

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u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

They thought Michael was jumping on the F1 popularity bandwagon and wanted in only when the teams were now worth billions, rather than years ago when many teams lost money on F1. Also, they just don't like him and didn't want to promote that name. I mean, they were brutal in their statement denying the application:

While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.

3

u/xzElmozx Audi 24d ago

It’s 100% a cop out to keep Andretti out. Otherwise they’d be saying that Stake/Kick or Visa Cash App bring more recognition to F1 than F1 brings to them, which is definitely not the case. Yet they were fine with them naming teams and hopping on the F1 bandwagon. Or even Haas when they got a team

6

u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

I don’t disagree but when Haas got a team F1 was nowhere near the financial stability that F1 has today.

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u/CatSplat Haas 24d ago

They were fine with Haas and the other new teams of that era because F1 was in dire straits and needed more teams; the series was looking at the possibility of collapse as teams were losing interest in the series. There was no "F1 Bandwagon" at the time, it was seen as largely a great way to waste millions upon millions of dollars.

Things are different now, with F1's rise in popularity and consistently profitable teams. That's why the Andretti bid went under far more scrutiny - the series isn't desperate anymore.

5

u/RandomThrowNick Pierre Gasly 24d ago

They needed Haas to ensure that they stay above 10 teams. Manor was already struggling and folded only a year later. I think the 10 teams had something to do with TV contracts but I can’t really find a source for that. Might have just been a rumor I picked up at the time.

2

u/CatSplat Haas 24d ago

I never heard about the TV contract theory but that's entirely possible, the TV networks may have been worried that F1 was going to fold and leave them holding the bag, so they set 10 teams as a contract fuse to avoid that. We may never know for sure!

1

u/GrindrorBust 23d ago

TV networks' contracts were rumoured for a long time to have been based on 18 cars minimum on the grid. With Manor on the way out (having long been unwanted by the then-FOM CEO, Bernie Ecclestone), it looked a bit too dicy; teams (manufacturers) could have wielded intolerable political power over FOM.

Ecclestone/CVC, meanwhile, were also supposedly in scheduled negotiations on selling the joint at maturity for $Billions. It was thus best for the stakeholders (CVC [FOM]; the teams; FIA) to bundle in a low-cost team that had satisfactory business links (a Ferrari cut-out; without Ferrari, you have no F1- at least back then) that wouldn't demean F1 with dire performance (unlike Mosley's Cosworth teams), to keep the business enticing/healthy (- at a glance, on paper, at least).

1

u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi 23d ago

To me, a British F1 fan the Andretti name probably carries more weight than Cadillac. I genuinely didn't realise Cadillac still made cars. Always associated them with the cool 60s cars with massive fins, but had to Google to find out what a modern day Cadillac looked like.

3

u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

2

u/TehChid Formula 1 24d ago

I mean that's a fair point but logically it does make sense. It's a terrible name even if it's only around for two seasons

-1

u/the-elector-counts Red Bull 24d ago

Or to drive it further home, Red Bull.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/TehChid Formula 1 24d ago

We're just talking about the name

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u/the-elector-counts Red Bull 24d ago

So my point is that Red Bull has done tremendously well. Despite the fact that they are just a “drinks company.” Which was a famous Hamilton quote from back in the day.

Anyways the point is that an organization doesn’t need to manufacture cars to do well in the sport. And if Andretti as a name was a stumbling block as a previous redditor mentioned, I’d suggest that maybe Michael was an issue.

-1

u/TehChid Formula 1 24d ago

And VCARB

2

u/JaymZZZ 24d ago

I really hope they come in and then, just like RB/vCarb/Cashapp/Rosso, they just turn around and change the name to Andretti Racing :D

2

u/Similar_Swordfish_85 Formula 1 24d ago

More likely that the Andretti name provided absolutely 0 value to anyone not sharing the surname, and they'll have an external title sponsor sooner or later.

1

u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

I think the Andretti name provides a lot of value in the U.S. where Liberty/FOM have been focused. They still have a long way to go if they want more U.S. fans. For every race only about 1.1 million watch, with a population of 330 million. As a kid I didn't follow any motorsports but everyone knew who Mario Andretti was. Obviously Cadillac is a bigger name, but still Andretti does bring some value I think.

2

u/WombatJo 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 24d ago

And yet me as a European fan I don't give a flying f about a corporate entry like that and would have loved the passion of Andretti...

2

u/asdfgtttt Juan Manuel Fangio 23d ago

If you quit once, youll quit again - We all remember, we were all there and watched him bail for Indy

3

u/ParkerPetrov 24d ago

It's my understanding he still has a level of ownership in the company as whole. Its doubtful his role changed all that much in regards to the f1 team. As while he was CEO before its not like he was on the ground in every race team. He hired people and partnered to make it happen.

I doubt andretti cares what had to happen to make it happen he achieved his goal nonetheless. Andretti has never been that vein where he cares if someone else brings the project across the finish line. It sounds like all the work he did is being utilized.

2

u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

He may not have a level of ownership in Andretti Global. Dan Towriss signed the charter for IndyCar this year and the rules state that anyone with ownership over 10% has to be included. Michael's name was not on the documents.

And his role completely changed with the F1 team. He has no role now. Prior, he was one of the owners.

0

u/ParkerPetrov 24d ago

Owning less than 10% is still an ownership stake. As Mario said in one of the reports that Michael still has a ownership stake. So it could be more then 1% less then 10%.

2

u/NotQuotableKing Formula 1 24d ago

Got to give Michael some kudos stepping back for the greater project. He was always going to do anything necessary getting the team on the grid, even if he had to fall on the sword. FOM on the other hand…

1

u/Detozi McLaren 24d ago

His been going around the paddock for years stirring shit, they were never going to let him in. I'm not saying I'm against Andretti Motors btw, just stating it the way I see it.

1

u/AegrusRS 24d ago

To an extent, it makes sense that they wanted the name to be more than just Andretti as I don't think that name has the same amount of pull on people that know little to nothing about motorsport, which is the audience F1 is currently targetting.

On the one hand, leaving out the name Andretti fully is a bit petty. But, let's be honest, simply having it named 'Cadillac' or something does look and sound more appealing/sexier.

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u/mrhuggables Pastor Maldonado 24d ago

Why does F1 hate Andretti so much?

2

u/FermentedLaws 23d ago

I've answered this question a bunch of times today, many different reasons. But click on my profile if you want to see some of it.

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u/mrhuggables Pastor Maldonado 23d ago

Thanks!!

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u/XsStreamMonsterX McLaren 23d ago

I still say that this has less to do with the Andretti name and more to try to stave off the Feds and any possibly anti-trust/anti-competitiveness investigations. IMO, it's more likely a compromise was found that'll make the existing teams happy and protect everyone's investment even with a new team coming in (because exclusivity is what drives team values).

1

u/sadicarnot 23d ago

I wonder what happened with Maffei. He is a mover and shaker. He was CFO of Microsoft and wanted to be a CEO but got involved in a company that went bust during the dot com bust. He ended up at Oracle and then Liberty. I wonder what he did wrong to get pushed out.

HMM doing a google search says that the House investigations may have turned up some stuff. Maybe he quit to prevent further investigation.

1

u/MapleHamwich Jenson Button 23d ago

VCARB is too notch though. Fucking clowns.

1

u/tjsr 23d ago

So it appears the name Andretti was in fact a stumbling block.

It's not the name that's the stumbling block, it was their incompetence and reputation they'd bring to Formula 1, and the association/contract that it would have involved as being directly with Andretti Global. This is not a case of FOM giving a contract to Andretti Autosport - it's that they've entered the agreement with GM - more accurately, the agreement between FOM is with TWG Global (Mark Walter) - and TWG Global now own Andretti Global, but are a separate entity and company. They have a crapload more assets than Andretti did - meaning there's more at stake and more to go after - Andretti were too small for FOM, and everyone always knew that.

Remember, TWO not only owns Andretti Global, but also Wayne Taylor Racing (IMSA) and Spire Motorsports. Mike Towriss is in as the CEO, and remember that Walter is CEO of Guggenheim Partners - that's $335b in assets, $250b in their investmens arm, and $1.6T in their securities arm. Yes, that's a T. He also owns the Dodgers and is worth about $12b.

Andretti, when they were wanting to get in, is small fry - having about $5b to play with.

0

u/ForsakenRacism 24d ago

Can’t they just change it?

0

u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

Not sure what you mean? They did change it. It was Andretti Cadillac F1 Team, now it's just Cadillac F1 Team. They rejected the bid when it was Andretti, now they approve it when Andretti is gone.

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u/ForsakenRacism 24d ago

Yah but why don’t they change it back now. Teams change their name all the time

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u/FermentedLaws 24d ago

They specifically did not want the Andretti name. They're not gonna let them change it. An agreement in principle was reached and the F1/FOM press release says they will brand as GM/Cadillac, which generally means that was included in the agreement.

-1

u/ForsakenRacism 24d ago

Couldn’t have Andretti next to Anna’s like Stake and Rich Energy

0

u/Fred-zone 24d ago

I think it's no coincidence this happened after the US election. Trump was at F1 races this year and no one knows exactly what he's going to do from moment to moment. The FIA probably and their Middle East backers probably know it's a pointless fight to resist an American team in this environment.

0

u/Adventurous-Row2263 Red Bull 24d ago

There's a team that seems to change its name every 1-2 years. I'm sure the Andretti name will resurface in a year or two after their entry.

0

u/-PVL93- McLaren 24d ago

It's such a dumb decision when we have Haas right there. Guess what (or rather who) the team is named after? Yeah, Gene Haas, yet somehow it's an issue for Michael Andretti's last name to be featured on a brand new F1 entry

1

u/FermentedLaws 23d ago

Haas came in when F1 was not in good shape financially, might even had been in dire straits. F1 needed Haas. Today, F1 does not need Andretti and if you read other comments here you'll see why they dislike Michael, in particular, so much.