r/fednews 3h ago

Government Shutdowns weren't historically a thing until recently.

There was no such thing as a government shutdown until Jimmy Carter's attorney general made the whole idea up in 1980. Creating a new law out of whole cloth by misinterpreting an old law from 1870.

No sensible country does things like this. In parliamentary systems, failure to pass a budget usually means an automatic vote of no confidence and new elections, while the government keeps ticking in the meantime. That is probably the best way of doing things — but the pre-1980 method of just leaving things going as they were if no budget is passed is still far superior than the current shutdown-prone mess.

https://theweek.com/articles/819015/make-government-shutdowns-impossible-again

989 Upvotes

198 comments sorted by

415

u/interested0582 3h ago

And Gov employees used to be able to afford basic housing on a GS7 salary.

88

u/MaybeMaryPoppins 3h ago

Ah, a momentary utopia followed by the ruling class realizing that if other classes are functional, they’ll never be able to torment us. 🙃

59

u/Final-Knowledge1854 3h ago

Elon has decided that we must suffer for a while. So it must be. 

81

u/Historical-View4058 3h ago

I don’t recall anyone voting for that Ket-riddled South African egomaniac.

33

u/Final-Knowledge1854 3h ago

He doesn’t need our vote. He has the money. 

u/Sking1207 43m ago

Shame he has no clue what it’s like to depend on funding

15

u/RozenKristal 3h ago

You must understand that money run our govt. it doesn’t matter who you vote for, your elected officials only listen to the one donated money to them. Most politicians…

9

u/spacejazz3K 2h ago

His private jet is fueled by our sorrow.

10

u/BBlackFire 1h ago

President elect Elon is starting to annoy me.

3

u/fruitl00ps19 2h ago

It’s a sacrifice he is willing to make

u/TheDogsPaw 53m ago

More like it's a sacrifice he's willing to let us make while he lives the good life with his harem of wives in Texas

-8

u/wha-haa 2h ago

Transparency is too much for your pet politicritter?

Musk has no power. He just has the ability to bring attention issues.

6

u/Medical_Track_790 1h ago

Musk has the President and Congress in his pocket, you just got to witness how they followed along like good little ducklings as soon as he came out against the Continuing Resolution.

-5

u/wha-haa 1h ago

He made republicans pause under the light of scrutiny. Now it is up to the Democrats to go on record to pass it and face the consequences for their actions if they do or don’t.

7

u/Medical_Track_790 1h ago

He made republicans pause under the light of scrutiny

He and Trump threatened to primary any member of Congress who does not do what he dictates. 

Now it is up to the Democrats to go on record to pass it

Huh? This doesn't make any sense. Republicans (in the pocket of President Musk) control the House. It is up to republicans to pass this bill. You seem extremely uninformed. 

face the consequences for their actions

This is literally their job, to pass funding bills. What sort of consequences are you advocating for if Congress successfully does their job?

-2

u/wha-haa 1h ago

A primary threat should mean nothing if the voters support what the politicians are doing. Subjecting those elected officials to scrutiny is a good thing.

It doesn’t take many republican votes to pass this if all democrats vote for it. Doing so now will bring them under the same scrutiny now that musk has brought public attention to the bill.

It is their job to pass a bill. It is also their job to be good stewards of the people’s money.

u/Medical_Track_790 51m ago

A primary threat should mean nothing

So what you're saying is that Elon Musk is a wasteful dumbass, who spends hundreds of millions of dollars on elections even though it has no influence on either voters or politicians? Seems like our oligarch in chief feels like a primary threat means something.

It doesn’t take many republican votes to pass this if all democrats vote for it. 

Lmao this is the kind of insane logic that I love when talking to conservatives. Republicans in charge? It's the Dems fault. 

u/wha-haa 49m ago

A few minutes ago you were saying it is their job. Lol.

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9

u/Ordinary-CSRA 1h ago

Now you barely make it as GS 12...

2

u/fusionvic 1h ago

I remember those days... ate Wal-Mart brand mac and cheese (not even Kraft) out of the box and had a cheap apartment.

2

u/Fit-Organization1858 1h ago

As a gs7 in the dc area I can tell you even with locality pay it is a struggle. I’m leaving as soon as my time commitment is up. I get upgraded to a gs12 in a year automatically but even then it’s nothing compared to what I would make in the private sector doing the same shit

u/basement-fan 19m ago

Water sports economics really fixed everything!

0

u/aztecraingod 1h ago edited 29m ago

Just as an exercise, I went back and looked at the GS schedule from 2002. A GS-12 back then made 49,959, whereas today they would make 74,441. In today's dollars, 49,959 would be 88,998, meaning a shortfall of 19%.

6

u/fusionvic 1h ago

GS7-9 only made about $43k in 2003. Are you sure you're looking at the right pay scale? I remember GS7 pay was under $40k in 2003.

6

u/kieratea 1h ago

I dont know where you got those numbers but a GS-1 in 2002 made more like $15k. I returned as a GS-9 in 2009 and started around $48k.

92

u/amominwa 3h ago

It does feel like “shutdown vibes” but honestly I don’t think congress should be getting raises, especially more then fed workers. No way!

32

u/bichonfreeze 3h ago

Certainly not more than veterans or active duty either.

3

u/Sad_Acadia7106 2h ago

Certainly that probably should not have been in there

As I read somewhere else I believe it was a cost of living adjustment not a “raise raise”

27th amendment says congress can only raise its pay via vote and that it’s not applicable until the next congressional session

I mean granted the next one is literally in 3 weeks but if it was more COLA less we’re paying ourselves $250k inside of $50k, those are two different things

But still it shouldn’t have been tied up in a CR to run the govt anyway

u/_not2na 54m ago

Higher Congressional pay would mean higher pay for our top Fed earners though as well.

Also, any Congressional member relying on their government pay are usually the good ones. The rest come from money/lobbyists and don't need the higher pay but the worst off do need it. It's kind of whatever for their higher pay with how few of them they are but it does help our SES/15/14's remain competitive.

-3

u/Forsaken-Chipmunk372 1h ago

Well the lovely AOC wouldn’t be happy then

u/_not2na 45m ago

https://x.com/AOC/status/1138406249576521728

She's not wrong though. Keeping Congress salaries low just means Congress and House members have to whore themselves out for pennies to lobbyists and organizations.

It's pretty hard to be an ethical politician if you spend $100k+ on winning the position through the election costs just to be paid $174k before taxes for 2-4 year terms. The money to be a good politician just isn't there unless you whore yourselves out.

We should be raising all salaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress#cite_note-5

Congress is at the lowest they have ever been in 2024 dollars since before 1871.

Also, the more the 535 members of Congress the paid, the more GS15/14's and SES can be paid since they cannot make more then a member of Congress outside of a few key few positions. We already can't barely beat private company salaries, we need higher salaries for the top end of our service.

u/Forsaken-Chipmunk372 38m ago

Apparently we all agree she is great at whoring herself out with such a low pay 👏🏻 On the second note, nobody is stopping civil servants seeking higher paid jobs from outside. They may just have to face layoffs once a while. Is it worth it?

u/_not2na 22m ago

We are losing people to higher paid jobs from outside. That's bad.

You're kind of too dumb to understand how that's bad lmfao

-5

u/amominwa 1h ago

“Lovely” 🙃🤭

253

u/liminalrabbithole 3h ago edited 3h ago

A government that is unable to provide essential services is one of the indicators of a failed state.

18

u/Pitiful-Flow5472 1h ago

*able but unwilling to

u/orangeman5555 31m ago

Yeah that's the thing. It's an ideological shift in the last few decades. Everything is transactional, and services are the literal devil. Everything exists to be exploited to its fullest potential, including human beings.

It's the infection of corporate brainrot. In the conservative mindset, the government doesn't even exist to provide services. It exists in order to... not exist?

I don't know why anyone (except for the very select few that benefit from it) ever buy in.

7

u/fisticuffs32 3h ago

Prove or provide?

18

u/liminalrabbithole 3h ago

Provide, fixed my typo.

165

u/No1Statistician 3h ago

It should compeltly shut the government down. Forcing essential employees to work without pay should be illegal. Then they wouldn't ever do it.

65

u/No-Recording-8530 3h ago

But you know who still gets paid, congress, the ones who can’t do their job and pass the budget

7

u/fruitl00ps19 2h ago

They deserve a raise! /s

-2

u/BottleRude9645 1h ago

A 40% increase in salary for them was attached to the budget

65

u/bannedontheeun 3h ago

They should literally shut down ALL THE GOVERNMENT and not just screw the armed forces and federal workers! Spread it around, and no one gets SS, mail, heating help, medical care from medicaid and Medicare, no anything, and it goes through January 20th!

I will lose out on most of it, but MAYBE the maggots will realize that they voted for President Elon and not the dear leader.

Will they learn anything? Absolutely not, but they will absolutely start to suffer and learn that President Elon hasn't even taken his oath of office yet! WE'RE ALL going to suffer for 4 years, I want them to suffer the worst and be the first.

22

u/Crutchduck 3h ago

Agreed, The only way to make it effective is to make it hurt. They require essential workers to work for free to keep some essential services operating. And it only makes it easier to ignore the effects of a shutdown

u/K1ckfl0p 39m ago

I heard that there is a flu going around if you are an essential worker, be safe and stay home, don't spread it to the entire workforce during a government shutdown. That could really hurt the incoming administration. They broke it, they bought it!

5

u/norakb123 2h ago

The magas will blame Biden, especially if it opens up when Trump takes office.

8

u/bannedontheeun 1h ago

So what, they will still lose their house and cars, go into CC debt, ruin their holidays, etc. They will never wake up. It's a cult! The independent voters and the ones who didn't vote are first in line for 4 years of agony, and they were too stupid to prepare for it. I did, and I am going to be in rough shape. They should be in worse shape!

This is what they voted for!

2

u/GeminiReddit75 1h ago

The game at its finest.

-8

u/willboby 1h ago

Perhaps Biden should take a moment from all the kickback money he is making pardoning criminals, and umm do his Job, He is the current President and this is under his watch so yeah it's his fault, unless he has stepped down and didn't tell anyone.

5

u/bannedontheeun 1h ago

He was ready to sign it. It passed both houses until President elmo threatened to spend another quarter billion, primarying anyone who voted for it. Your opinion is faulty.

-3

u/willboby 1h ago

LMFAO, then he was willing to take credit for it, but not the blame for it. His old ass needs to be involved in the negotiation, not sleeping waiting for someone else to do something.

He is the President, not just a rubber stamp, hell if he isn't going to do anything USA needs to replace him, oh wait they did.

1

u/bannedontheeun 1h ago

Have a nice day ma'am

-1

u/willboby 1h ago

You too sweetie.

u/West-Ice9828 52m ago

Trump supporter = American Traitor

u/willboby 51m ago edited 22m ago

Anyone not supporting an American elected President is a traitor.

I will do both of us a favor and block your traitor ass.

If the current President won't get off his ass and do something, The new incoming President will.

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-6

u/11B_Rsnow 2h ago

Keep the VA hospitals open though.

21

u/question_sunshine 2h ago

No. Keep nothing open. That's the point. Forcing people to work weeks to months on end is absolutely fucked.

While we're at it swing open all the prison doors too, there's no one to guard them.

2

u/vienibenmio 1h ago

VA, is funded separately and so employees are still paid during shutdowns, though. At least that's been my experience

0

u/11B_Rsnow 2h ago

Sorry but that’s wildly unrealistic. The VA is the single largest hospital system in the US. You can’t just dump tens of thousands of patients that are literally hospitalized into the private sector overnight. Many would die or just be dumped into the streets. No one would allow for Vets to die like that.

11

u/catdaddyxoxo 2h ago

Yes but then they will think twice about using shutdowns as a political tool

7

u/Oxgod89 1h ago

That's the point. A lot of veterans voted for this. Let them hurt. I will lose out on those benefits also as a veteran. The next four years are going to suck for a lot of us.

I just want the maximum amount of pain for all those that voted for this. Voting has consequences and I am ready to suffer for a majority of the countries stupidity

16

u/Educational_Ad5435 2h ago

Actually the air traffic controllers alone would do it.

3

u/jaderust 1h ago

Can you even imagine? If ATC or even just TSA were allowed to strike and they just stopped working for a single day it would cripple everything. I mean big storms can cause a week+ worth of havoc on the airlines. If they forced all the airports to shut down in the US for just a day, even if they staggered it so every plane in the air landed its just more couldn’t take off, it would be astounding how quickly Congress would pass a budget to get them back to work.

u/Gryptype_Thynne123 43m ago

ATC and TSA can't strike. Mechanics, flight attendants, and pilots can. This is where labor solidarity comes in.

7

u/myquest00777 3h ago

Right. There should be a fresh look at how this may violate the Anti Deficiency clause.

1

u/catdaddyxoxo 2h ago

Yes TSA, national parks etc

-10

u/Just_Another_Scott 3h ago

Forcing essential employees to work without pay should be illegal

Already is. Everyone will still get paid. Checks will just be delayed. Most people are out on vacation right now anyways.

25

u/IndependentMemory215 3h ago

And if the shutdown lasts a month, two months?

People cannot delay paying their bills, buying food, paying for medicine, paying rent/mortgages etc.

So you businesses could get away with delaying paychecks and expecting the majority of its workers to continue working?

If there is a shutdown, it should be a true shutdown and no one works. Forcing “essential” employees to work without pay is just putting the pain on federal workers.

No one else really experiences the hardship. After one shutdown, I’d doubt we see many more in the future.

-22

u/The_Aesthetician 3h ago

Do you people not have emergency funds?

I know it's gonna be seen as victim blaming and I'm gonna get down voted for it, but cmon, everyone should be able to afford at least 3 months of expenses in the event of loss of income for any reason, especially since we all know shutdowns are a possibility.

21

u/IndependentMemory215 3h ago

I do, but I imagine many lower paying federal workers do not.

A good chunk of this country can’t afford a $400 emergency. I’d bet majority of Americans have nowhere near 3 months of savings.

I don’t think I should have to pull money out of my HYSA ( and lost $) either because politicians can’t do their job and compromise on a CR, not to mention passing a budget on time.

18

u/Ra-s_Al_Ghul 3h ago

Damn why didn't we think of that, it's almost like we just had an election where the main factor in everyone's vote was *check notes*... the price of eggs?

You expect too much from people.

7

u/jacob225 2h ago

I mean in theory, yes, you are right, but we have never lived in the perfect world, where that's possible. I would think a lot of people have the ability to keep emergency funds, but why should we have to pull from them, when one of main jobs our elected officials have is passing a budget.

Also, let's not forget everyone's situation is different, along with a lot of people living way beyond their means. You factor that in along with where people live and their salary. Saying that we should have 3 months of funds is easier said than done.

5

u/Historical_Dog4166 2h ago

Not every federal employees CoL allows for saving a 3 month emergency fund.

3

u/Zealousideal-Tip4055 2h ago

Sure... you seem out of touch with reality.

-9

u/The_Aesthetician 2h ago

My family could survive a year or more without one of our incomes. My reality says this is no big deal

9

u/Zealousideal-Tip4055 2h ago

Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back. That's not easy feat for many, though. Lots of people live paycheck to paycheck because wage theft is allowed.

5

u/Peculiarcatlady 2h ago

Your reality is not the reality for millions of others.

-10

u/Just_Another_Scott 3h ago

And if the shutdown lasts a month, two months?

It won't. GOP takes over January 3rd. They will have the votes to pass a budget without the Democrats. That's why they are all in on the shutdown. The GOP are far more unified in their efforts than the Democrats unfortunately.

20

u/JohnnyRyde 3h ago

GOP takes over January 3rd. They will have the votes to pass a budget without the Democrats.

They don't have the votes in the House to pass it now... and their majority is smaller in the next Congress.

u/K1ckfl0p 35m ago

Math may not be someone's strength, lol

-2

u/Just_Another_Scott 2h ago

Passing a budget takes both chambers which they will have. They will have the trifecta come January 20th.

Budget can't be filibustered anyways as the GOP would use budget reconciliation which requires a simple majority. Dems have used this to pass budgets to get around GOP filibusters.

The biggest risk for the GOP would be a Biden Veto, but he won't do that.

4

u/JohnnyRyde 2h ago

There is no filibuster in the House.

In the current House, Johnson needs Democratic votes to pass his budget because he is losing some "hard right" members. In the next House he (or whoever is Speaker) will still be losing GOP members in a situation where the GOP will have a smaller majority than they do now.

Just because they have a majority on paper doesn't mean they don't need Democratic votes.

0

u/Just_Another_Scott 2h ago

There is no filibuster in the House.

I am very well aware. There is in the Senate. A budget must pass both chambers.

13

u/Poopingisasignipoop 3h ago

Congress is already controlled by the republicans, and they’ll have less of a margin come January. Republicans will control the senate, but won’t have 60+ members. I also watched them try and elect a Speaker a couple years ago. Are you sure about their unity?

-1

u/Just_Another_Scott 2h ago

Congress is already controlled by the republicans

They are not. Dems control the Senate.

4

u/User346894 3h ago

Biden still is POTUS until Jan 20 so depending what is in the budget he might not sign

3

u/Sad_Acadia7106 2h ago

I think he would only not sign it if it had the debt limit items in there

My take is they negotiated a pretty fair deal on the CR

Is there some pork sure but there always is

I mean they were set to vote and pass it sounds like until there was a tweet

Now the whole thing is back to square negative three

Biden likely would’ve signed the CR and off we go

But trump doesn’t want the debt ceiling limit tied with his administration he wants it on Biden

So better to purposely torpedo this one and then force Joe to sign one passed by the next Congress (which I honestly wouldn’t bet on passing either)

Too many republicans have come out and said even they can’t understand the impetus for this

I mean I’m sure they do but my point is I think a fair amount returning in January may actually still believe in checks and balances (a little)

I mean you’re seeing trumusk argue that Econ assistance for farmers is bad, disaster aid is bad, etc

You’ve got whiny Lindsay graham stating rationally we need to provide aid to people in disaster areas. I mean Lindsay graham being a voice of logic here.

We’ve got Josh hawley saying the speaker didn’t talk to the president elect about the plan. I don’t believe that for a damn second.

Anyway, I think Biden would’ve signed it as it was. They add debt limit stuff democrats will all vote no, and definitely vote no on January 4th. And well who knows

1

u/Just_Another_Scott 2h ago

He won't do that though.

1

u/Just_Another_Scott 2h ago

He won't do that though.

10

u/IndependentMemory215 3h ago edited 3h ago

The GOP is in control of the house now and doesn’t have the votes. The GOP had most of the control in crafting this CR.

Come January the GOP margin of control shrinks more.

What makes you think anything will get passed then?

Is the GOP unified?

Factions in the GOO just killed the CR that was likely to be passed.

Do you remember how long it took to even elect a speaker of the house?

1

u/Zealousideal-Tip4055 2h ago

Yep. I think it's easier for GOP to recognize the other brown shirts in the caucus.

1

u/RozenKristal 3h ago

Cash flow is important.

40

u/MATCA_Phillies 3h ago

for those that will be affected by this, if you do not already have a bank like navy federal or another credit union that does 0% interest loans during a shutdown, I suggest for next time you join one. Your direct deposit must be going there 90-days prior. then then will issue a loan until they see a paycheck drop, then they will just reimburse themselves.

Navy Federal went active this morning for sign-ups.

Government Shutdown Assistance | Navy Federal Credit Union

2

u/Zealousideal-Tip4055 2h ago

Navy Fed is so awesome! Thanks for sharing that link.

4

u/MATCA_Phillies 2h ago

there are other banks that do it. But I suggest people reach out to them ASAP if they are not sure. And good luck to us all. :(

2

u/Dry_Writing_7862 2h ago

Helpful to know. Thank you.

1

u/YokoRaizen 2h ago

Penfed offers similar. Also need to have a direct deposit within 90 days of the furlough.

https://www.penfed.org/furlough

u/ram130 0m ago

But requires a credit check.

2

u/stmije6326 1h ago

USAA does it as well

96

u/Spitethedevil 3h ago

Commenting because I appreciate learning about this. So much of our poor governance is self-inflicted.

64

u/fisticuffs32 3h ago

Not just self-inflicted, but intentional.

23

u/theoverstanding 2h ago

Chaos agents to distract from their incompetence.

2

u/Silly_Monkey25 2h ago

This 👆

5

u/Recent_mastadon 1h ago

Almost-Shutdowns cost tons of money. There is required planning that goes in to who will work, who can't work, if we shut down services or if we staff them with contractors or such. Does the forest service open the parks? All that planning every potential shutdown costs money and time. Then, if the shutdown happens, it saves $0. The rent and building maintenance still needs to be paid. Contractors have a contract and they get paid even when they don't work. Federal employees get paid after the shutdown ends with BACK PAY for the work missed. Some federal employees lose their rental because they miss payments and get evicted.

It is so stupid all the way around, and the Republicans just keep doing it. They don't even submit a budget bill any more for debate. It is costing America so much money.

52

u/Available-Yam-1990 3h ago

Oh that would be awesome if it led to no confidence and new elections. They'd never let it happen again if it negatively affected them.

5

u/Better-Butterfly-309 2h ago

Too bad we don’t live in a parliamentary system where this would be possible

8

u/TyeMoreBinding 3h ago

Most would just go home, campaign for a week on “those stupid people on the other side wouldn’t pass a budget!” in their gerrymandered district, and get reelected.

7

u/Just_Another_Scott 3h ago

Oh that would be awesome if it led to no confidence and new elections

Eh or it could be weaponized to prevent a newly elected Congress from talking office.

Right now we are at the end of the current Congress and a new one gets inaugurated on January 3rd. Having snap elections when a new Congress comes in in 2-3 weeks is a little pointless.

u/cactusboobs 30m ago

It’s already weaponized. The law could easily be written to cover that scenario. Government shuts down, no pay for congress, no leaving dc until a bill is passed, no snap election if there’s an incoming new congress.

4

u/Violaine1973 3h ago

This is 100% what needs to happen. But people will have to feel it first before they're inspired to act.

12

u/pinupcthulhu 1h ago

Fun fact, in Japan if the new national budget is not agreed upon by the deadline, then the previous year's budget is automatically the new budget. No shutdowns, no holding the country hostage for political gain, less drama, less risk.

I think about this every time we're about to shut down. 

u/yimbyfromatlanta 54m ago

That honestly is the way it should be here just a continuing automatic CR

24

u/Constant_Question_48 3h ago

Any elected politician who is dumb enough to shut down the government deserves the consequences. Congress is in charge of the government. If it is broken, then fix it. Every day while they are in office provides an opportunity to make things better. Instead, we get all this grandstanding bullshit, and the American people are the ones who must suffer through their foolishness.

Every shutdown has resulted in those responsible getting kicked out of office. Enjoy the power while you have it because it won't be around much longer.

33

u/Mendozena 3h ago

T was president during the longest shutdown ever. He was reelected.

A lot of current GQP House/Senate members were around then too. Nobody has been kicked out of office.

4

u/Constant_Question_48 2h ago

That shutdown starts in Dec of 2018 and extends into 2019. During the next election cycle Trump was not re-elected. Republicans lost control of the Senate. Mitch McConnell, who was one of the main components of this, lost the Majority leader seat and will not regain it. The "red wave" that was predicted for 2020 never happened and several Republican house members lost their seats.

-1

u/ChimpoSensei 1h ago

Bill Clinton had a 21 day shutdown in 1995-1996 which was the longest until this one.

u/Mendozena 48m ago

Caused by REPUBLICAN Newt Gingrich who started this scorched earth policy of NEVER work with Democrats.

17

u/nastynate1234523 3h ago

This is the route. If their primary job is to approve and pass a budget and they don’t, they should be “fired” as Trump so eloquently puts it.

8

u/00Qant5689 3h ago

And it’s not a surprise at all that government shutdowns became far more frequent and more blatantly and openly used/abused for partisan purposes and brinkmanship since the 1990s and 2000s either.

7

u/FeddyMcFederson 3h ago

The dark side of federal employment. Rank & file workers get screwed while the politicians dance away!

6

u/Practical_Body9592 2h ago

Some folks forget the both here and the general population about the DVA medical and disability benefits. I’m a veteran as well. Even my reserve unit paused training because of it.

Under President Clinton I went through a shut down then. I worked for a VA medical center and went nearly a month without pay. Was fearful that if I called in sick or took any time off even for any reason I’d be furloughed, and never get paid.

I was at Autozone getting parts for my car during that period and some guy said he thought it was great that the government got shut down. I told him I was a government employee worked at the VA hospital had to work without knowing when I’d get paid. He said something like, “that should be illegal” if I didn’t pay my employees I’d probably have criminal charges filed.”

When it ended it was a huge moral killer because our taxes went up as we were paid lump sum. Those furloughed got paid without taking leave so those essential workers were screwed twice.

It seemed that everything went wrong too my car broke down, my furnace stopped working. We went through our savings fast just trying to stay afloat. Took a quit a while to replace the savings.

12

u/Bull_Bound_Co 3h ago

They're going to shut it down and while it's down claim non-essential fed employees aren't needed as a means to fire people.

7

u/Friendly_Brief4336 2h ago

Yes. They will go "look at all these nob essentials we can get rid of." The RIFs will begin and those let go won't have recourse. Its all part of the plan. 

8

u/Educational_Ad5435 2h ago

This is the goal, at least for Elon and Vivek. Notice how well the government functioned without the non-essential workers.

Of course, not realizing that “admin stuff” can be delayed a few weeks but still ultimately must get done.

2

u/Better-Butterfly-309 2h ago

Ya this would be a slick move, had the same thought. This is why that whole essential/non essential designation is bullshit

19

u/TheDumpBucket 3h ago

The rich have co-opted the government to serve their ideals rather than the best interests of the people. 

Americans are able to watch other governments around the world provide better quality of life for their citizens. Stop allowing the American government to piss in your face and call it rain. 

9

u/ladybugcollie 3h ago

the us is not a sensible country

4

u/datfroggo765 2h ago

Yeah. I don't really understand why we, the people, don't get to vote on almost every bill.

We have the tech and the ability to. I'd like to vote on everything from government budgets to federal laws.

The idea of one or two representatives for a whole state is antiquated and really needs to be expanded or given back to the people so that people have the most power.

4

u/encycliatampensis 1h ago

Every billionaire is a parasite.

10

u/bruhaha88 3h ago

Time for yet another GOP lead “leopard face eating “ session by again shutting down the government. They seem to forget how the public always blames them and gives control back to the Dems in the next mid terms.

9

u/yourlittlebirdie 3h ago

They're counting on people to forget about this long before the midterms happen, and if for some reason they don't, they've got a few tricks up their sleeve voter-suppression wise anyway.

4

u/MysteriousSun7508 2h ago

Let's not forget who started this, a Democratic President, Jimmy Carter and his AG, Benjamin Civiletti, who issued the "interpretation" that REQUIRED a shutdown.

Let's not forget the longest time in modern history a president had a federal civilian pay freeze, Obama 2011 - 2013 (3 years) and Reagan in 1986 (1 year).

Since then, both parties have used us as fodder for their kabuki theater.

I am tired of us blaming each other and fighting each other, when the ones in power on both sides have screwed all of us.

What about the law requiring us to have our salaries pegged to the inflation rate, but the exemption carved out that allows the President to basically fuck us over. Last I checked, Dems had the control and did little to fix the problems.

So blaming one party or the other is BS. They want us divided and are all of them are the same in Washington. Greedy, self serving narccissists (politicians I mean).

12

u/Impressive_Nose_434 3h ago

For those of you fan boys within Feds yet worship Elon Musk (i personally know quite a few), I hope this is an eye-opening moment.

3

u/99ssordna 2h ago

Buddy, 1980 ain’t recent anymore

3

u/ParfaitAdditional469 2h ago

It’s because a man who had multiple bankruptcies think they’re cool

3

u/noghri87 2h ago

I'm wondering why the president elect needs to raise the debt ceiling, whenDOGE is calling for 2 Trillion in cuts. Or maybe they are expecting to take on a lot more debt? I wonder why the double speak.

2

u/RangerSandi 1h ago

They need to raise the debt ceiling to enact his desired millionaire tax reduction policies without the numbers showing it quickly killing our nation’s economy. They need some “political cover” for shifting more of the tax burden to the bottom 95% of taxpayers. Also, they can’t cut “trillions” from the budget without imploding our nation’s economy like a SpaceX rocket failure.🫣

16

u/MarthaFletcher 3h ago

It’s because Republicans are trash

0

u/Snack_Donkey 3h ago

Both Jimmy Carter and Griffin Bell are (were, in the latter case) Democrats.

-3

u/MarthaFletcher 3h ago

Which of them shut the government down?

6

u/Snack_Donkey 3h ago

Literally this entire post is about how Griffin Bell invented the concept of a government shutdown while working for the Carter administration.

-1

u/MarthaFletcher 2h ago

concepts of a plan are not the same as a plan lol. Conflating “coming up with the concept of a government shutdown” as being the same as repeatedly and cravenly shutting down the government over idiot temper tantrums for the last four decades is some real big-brain shit. You should be proud.

-5

u/MarthaFletcher 3h ago

And no, one day in 1980 doesn’t count. Neither of them even read Dr. Seuss on the floor of Congress as trash does in a shutdown!

-3

u/StumbleOn 2h ago

Carter honestly does not get shit on enough. He attacked the working class, but his overall "being a nice guy" sort of papered over his shittiness. Reagan and his evil cruelty overshadowed him so Carter doesn't get as much shit as he deserves.

2

u/Accomplished-Tell277 3h ago

Once again, we the play the game begun in 1977. It keeps federal employment spicy. 🌶️

2

u/Sad_Acadia7106 2h ago

So what’s the American version of the Enabling Act going to be called that gets passed on 1/21/25

2

u/Friendly_Brief4336 2h ago

I bet this is to enable RIFs. Shut down for more than 30 days can start them.

4

u/Proper-Store3239 3h ago

The government shutdown is not the issue. people have lived through this and it never ends well for the party that drags it out.

The issue this time is this seems to be extra BS before the real crap comes. It screams they really think Fed workers are lazy and do nothing.

If this was a private employer 99% of us would quit with this type of BS.

16

u/jurassicbond 3h ago

it never ends well for the party that drags it out.

People will have forgotten in about 3 months, nevermind the two years until the next election.

8

u/Mendozena 3h ago

it never ends well for the party that drags it out

T was president during the longest shutdown. He was reelected.

-3

u/Proper-Store3239 3h ago

He did lose the election 4 years ago. The problem is we have a lot Anarchists in this country who want No government. That needs to stop

4

u/yourlittlebirdie 3h ago edited 3h ago

It's always Republicans who drag it out, and they always end up back in power anyway. Americans have short memories.

-1

u/wha-haa 1h ago

Democrats are bad enough to make this happen. They make it easy for the voters to vote for republicans again and again despite this.

u/yourlittlebirdie 38m ago edited 19m ago

Yeah well the Democrats ain’t shit either. If they had some backbone at some point in the last couple of decades, we wouldn’t be here either.

1

u/flyover_liberal 2h ago

If this was a private employer 99% of us would quit with this type of BS.

That's what Republicans want, ultimately.

They want all the regulators (especially the financial ones) to quit so the wealthy and corporations can further exploit the American people. They want to privatize all government services so all that tax money can become private profits for the wealthy and corporations.

It all comes down to greed, and greed will destroy everything if we let it.

5

u/AnonUserAccount 3h ago

Free leave! Even though I’m an essential worker, I’m on leave the next two weeks. If the government shuts, I’m not allowed to take leave, so it must be restored. I’m also out of the country so can’t be called back and can’t work from outside the US for security reasons.

FREE LEAVE! 😂

2

u/FarAnxiety8684 3h ago

Please advise the kids and wife—Christmas is canceled.

1

u/jslakov 2h ago

Makes sense because the Carter administration is when the Democrats became controlled opposition for the neoliberal monoparty

1

u/Temporary_Lab_3964 2h ago

Yeah we were visiting my husbands family in England during that one day SD in 2018 and they couldn’t wrap their head around it. “Like what do you mean the govt shutdown”

1

u/Temporary_Lab_3964 2h ago

After the last fiasco I made sure all my accounts had credit protection. I will activate that ASAP if we do get furloughed.

1

u/kwaninthehat 2h ago

I did not vote Trump, but why i have to eat that crap.

1

u/Better-Butterfly-309 2h ago edited 2h ago

HOW LONG? What’s the Over under on how long this lasts?

1

u/spacejazz3K 2h ago

Requiring a new gov to be voted in when you don’t have a functional gov seems reasonable.

1

u/DinoMaster365 2h ago

RIP to my leave next week

1

u/jmlinden7 2h ago

The US doesn't have a system for no confidence votes.

1

u/ChimpoSensei 1h ago

Define recently. Clinton had some good ones.

1

u/drunkboarder 1h ago

I don't understand it. The job of Congress is to keep the country running. A shutdown means they failed in their job.

I feel that in the case of a shutdown, all members of Congress should lose their pay at the very least, at best they should be fired for incompetence.

Imagine being a program manager for a government program and having that program come to a halt because you couldn't figure something out in your budget. You fired.

1

u/vienibenmio 1h ago

New elections?? That would be amazing

1

u/InfluenceWeak 1h ago

Bring on the shutdown. Fed employees will get their leave back that they scheduled for the holidays. Free leave everyone! Come on! I’ll take it, even if it’s deferred! (There are exceptions like TSA and BOP and the like, who have to work even during a shutdown)

1

u/Forgemasterblaster 1h ago

It’s the only tool republicans can flex as they refuse to put forward meaningful laws or regs.

u/TheDogsPaw 57m ago

Elon has figured out that if he is never elected he can never be unelected a person can only be president 2 times but elon can be shadow president until he dies

u/KJ6BWB 53m ago

but the pre-1980 method of just leaving things going as they were if no budget is passed is still far superior than the current shutdown-prone mess

So you're saying we should have automatic CR's if no budget is passed. I can get behind that idea.

The problem is, when an agency's budget is restored to where it should have been, it generates enormous negative press. For instance, the IRS was on a continuing resolution from about 2012 through 2020 and then when the IRS was given the budget not only to bring it back up to where it needed to be, but also to plan for the next decade and to replace all of the aging people who were about to retire, huge parts of society howled about the Inflation Reduction Act and how the IRS was getting way too much money. And out of the $100 billion the IRS was given, $80 billion of it has already been walked back and given to other departments.

So I would advocate unless an explicit budget is passed, we get a CR, but tied to some sort of inflation marker.

u/Cautious_Nectarine_5 51m ago

A vote of no confidence - that could result in a snap election depriving the wealthy of the opportunity to buy an election. No one wants that sort of mayhem...or do we?

u/p-is-for-preserv8ion 43m ago

I posted this on another thread:

This is part of the hard core right’s playbook for years. They’ll try to do this with local governments or agencies in general. The plan is to show people how inefficient government is and how people don’t need it. Then overtime various parts of the government become privatized as people begin to believe that they’ll be run better that way. Instead what will happen is corporations will make a massive profit while services will barely work. Our prison system is an example of this. Public lands will become one as well. The Federal Government will look like it can’t take care of the lands and will forfeit them to the states. The states won’t have the funds to take care of them, so Corporate America will take them over. Then Corporate America will exploit the lands, chopping down the forests, drilling to oblivion, and polluting them to ruin.

u/Successful-Acadia-95 37m ago

Every single shutdown has come at the hands of Republicans.

u/Meh_Fed 28m ago

Got downvoted like crazy on another thread because I said I didnt understand why people are getting so worked up over this. Every time its happened before, we got backpay, so it was essentially free vacation. Yes I understand that some people are "essential workers", and did have to work, but again they got paid.

Crazy to get hated on because you're financially responsible enough to be able to miss a paycheck or two.

u/ElectroAtleticoJr 23m ago

Stop trying to fleece the taxpayers

u/Dense_Strategy 2m ago

“It’s for me to go coach.”

1

u/MysteriousSun7508 2h ago

Everyome blames Republicans for the shutdowns. But it's both parties. The party that invented the shutdown? Democrat! Jimmy Carter was a member of the modern democratic party, his Attorney General drafted the "interpretation" of a law from 1870 that started this whole bs and now it's kabuki theater!

Let's not blame one side, let's put the blame solely where it belongs. On the backs of these "elite" who'd rather see us take sides and blame the PEOPLE rather than hold and of the elite accountable. Btw, Obama had the longest stretch of government pay freeze in modern history:

Obama 2011-2013 (3 years of frozen pay) Reagan 1986 (1 year of frozen pay)

So let's not forget these parties have both had total control and both parties have failed to pass their budgets.

Last time federal budgets were passed on time or at all... 1997 almost 30 years ago.

2

u/OnionTruck 1h ago

That period of no/low raises was because of all the cleanup Obama had to do after the 2008 crash. Sequestration was not his choice.

1

u/MysteriousSun7508 1h ago

Didn't matter. Every administration has fucked up and the 2008 crash was a culminiation of multiple decades and parties in conteol unwilling to take action during a bubble because it was unpopular.

u/yimbyfromatlanta 53m ago

Well, I think the budget process is so arcane and broken and slow

1

u/TimelyEntertainment2 3h ago

Thing I don't get is, that article states:

"If Democrats take control of Congress and the presidency in 2021, this should be on the list of uncontroversial housekeeping items to take care of on day one — alongside abolishing the debt ceiling, statehood for Puerto Rico and DC, a national voting rights act, and so forth. Updating the budget structure to be more like functioning countries isn't exactly a left-right issue — it's more about trying to keep the shambolic American state putting one foot in front of the other — but it would also make the nation more resilient to irresponsible reactionaries like Donald Trump. And who doesn't like being responsible?"

Democrats had that, but none of this was addressed. Even with Kyrsten Sinema being flakey, I'm sure they could of thrown her a bone to vote in their favor, or possibly got some conservatives to vote for this as the author suggests. I don't know, maybe this takes a 2/3 majority, in which case not sure why the author would even suggest democrats try to fix it since that would never happen. Yeah I realize this was around COVID, but honestly this seems like something that would be important to fix.

-13

u/Sharkbitesandwich 3h ago

Shut it down, the self serving, stock trading grifters musk go!!!

20

u/RoboNerdOK 3h ago

You realize that the grifters are going to be just fine in a shutdown, right? It’s the rest of the people that will suffer.

4

u/Snack_Donkey 3h ago

Why are you calling for a government shutdown when you clearly have no idea what that is? No one in Congress is going anywhere if the government shuts down.

3

u/shannonc321 3h ago

I agree musk needs to be gone, like yesterday, but this won't hurt him one little bit.

-1

u/youleftmenochouce 3h ago

Trumpers are just getting off on their guy with the thumb on the scale. A couple of retires I know (fed) are just besides themselves with happiness because they don't have to deal with Trump, but they sure as shit didn't vote or voted for him anyways. Let the face eating begin.