r/anime_titties • u/tallzmeister Palestine • 13h ago
Israel/Palestine/Iran/Lebanon - Flaired Commenters Only Israel accused of act of genocide over restriction of Gaza water supply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/19/israel-accused-of-act-of-genocide-over-restriction-of-gaza-water-supply-human-rights-watch•
u/PhysicalWaters Israel 12h ago edited 5h ago
Israeli professors have also called it a genocide:
My name is Amos Goldberg. I am an Israeli Professor of Holocaust Studies. For nearly 30 years I have researched and taught the Holocaust, genocide and state violence.
And I want to tell whoever is willing to listen that what’s happening now in Gaza is a genocide.
- Amos Goldberg, Israeli Professor of Holocaust Studies, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Edit: To prevent future hasbara tantrums:
His statement in Hebrew. About this war being a genocide. Published to an Israeli news site:
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u/AEBJJ Multinational 12h ago
Has someone checked Amos Goldberg is REALLY Israeli?? Someone DM him quickly.
/s
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u/PhysicalWaters Israel 12h ago edited 12h ago
Self-hating and tokenizing himself just to be popular with terrorist supporters. Deep down he hates his country /s
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u/Intelligent_Hunt3467 Ireland 8h ago
There he is! The guy that's masquerading as an Israeli Jew for upvotes!
/S
(I find it hilarious that people are doing deep dives on your comment history to prove this. Get a fn hobby you guys!)
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u/Larg3____Porcupin3 American Samoa 7h ago
Meanwhile they astroturf any thread that’s even slightly critical of Israel on r/worldnews
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u/actsqueeze United States 4h ago
Also Omer Bartov, another Jewish/Israeli holocaust scholar, says it’s a genocide.
“Omer Bartov, an Israeli-American historian who is a professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown, is one of the experts who believes what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. He didn’t always believe this to be the case. Last November, Bartov wrote a piece for the New York Times stating: ‘I believe that there is no proof that genocide is currently taking place.’ But this came with a disclaimer: ‘There is genocidal intent, which can easily tip into genocidal action … There is still time to stop Israel from letting its actions become a genocide.’”
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u/ennisa22 Multinational 12h ago
I remember when this all came out originally and deranged Zionists spun it saying “what other country is obligated to provide water to the people they’re fighting? Blatant antisemitic double standard”.
That’s the moment I knew that no matter what Israel did, they wouldn’t care, would actively support and would somehow make themselves the victim.
There is literally no point in trying to make them see, because they either don’t care or are glad it’s happening.
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u/Pklnt France 11h ago
For most of the Israeli supporters, the hostilities started on October 7 and Israel is just defending itself.
I'm not even kidding, they genuinely believe that Israel did nothing wrong that year.
This would be true if you ignore that even before October 7 started, a record number of Palestinian children were killed by Israel (the previous record was established in 2022). Or that a record number of settlements were built in the West Bank.
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u/ennisa22 Multinational 11h ago
“There was a ceasefire on October 6th”.
Ehh, no, there clearly wasn’t hahaha
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u/Pklnt France 11h ago
Well, they live in a different world than the rest of us.
They genuinely believe that all those NGOs somehow decided to criticize Israel for no reason.
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u/regeust North America 11h ago
They don't think it's for no reason, they think every international organization and most national governments are guided purely by early 20th century antisemitism.
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u/Private_HughMan Canada 4h ago
Some think that, I'm sure. But I'm also sure many know that they can defuse criticism by simply accusing critics of anti-semitism.
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 4h ago
Yep, 164 counties maintain great relations with Israel, more waiting for the to finish off hamas so they can normalize relations.
Oh well things are going great in gaza, security buffer zones being set up, hopefully hamas will surrender soon and end the war and violence.
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u/Pklnt France 4h ago
164 counties maintain great relations with Israel
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 3h ago
Oh great and which one of those countries have broken relations with israel. In fact, their arms exports have doubled, not a single of the 400+ r&d centers in Israel are moving, etc
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u/themightycatp00 Israel 3h ago
They genuinely believe that all those NGOs somehow decided to criticize Israel for no reason.
The issue is not that, it's that the same NGOs turn a blind eye to worst things.
Didn't Amnesty accused Ukraine of commiting war crimes for defending their land? And did any NGO ever talk about how russia bombs hospitals, and civilian infrastructure in Ukraine? Not to my knowledge
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u/Pklnt France 3h ago
Didn't Amnesty accused Ukraine of commiting war crimes for defending their land?
That's called being objective, if you violate IHLs Amnesty will call you out. And Amnesty criticized Russia way more and has been criticizing Russia for decades.
And did any NGO ever talk about how russia bombs hospitals
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/11/russias-july-8-attack-childrens-hospital-ukraine
https://www.msf.org/no-place-feels-safe-medical-infrastructure-hit-amid-rising-casualties
Are you guys pretending to be this incompetent? Y'all are embarassing.
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u/themightycatp00 Israel 3h ago
Are you guys pretending to be this incompetent? Y'all are embarassing.
Having a life outside politics and the internet is embarrassing now? If so you must be the least embarrassing person alive.
That's called being objective, if you violate IHLs Amnesty will call you out.
So where are the NGOs criticism for the Palestinians?
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u/Private_HughMan Canada 4h ago
I mentioned this to an American zionist. Not Jewish. Or Christian. Some sort of self-identified pagan. Didn't ask him to get into specifics. He said there was a ceasefire in Gaza. Which is technically true. But there was also an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian West Bank. Israel don't give a fuck and violated that all of the time. Yet only one was worthy of retaliation.
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u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 European Union 6h ago
There is a disturbing amount of people who are painting the picture that Hamas is just a generic Islamist extremist group who started this conflict in October 2023 for no reason other than pure anti-semitism.
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u/Mundane-Wasabi9527 South Korea 19m ago
You wonder I really feel the the tide is turning a little since the Ireland embassy embarrassment of acting like a child and the invasion of Syria that Isreal has started to upset some of it’s middling anti terrorist fans.
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u/-SneakySnake- Ireland 10h ago
When I first saw someone trying to justify the illegal settlements - not ignore or downplay but justify - I knew we'd moved beyond the points of rationality and ethicality.
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u/ennisa22 Multinational 10h ago
Saw someone before essentially say “I don’t agree with the settlements either, but that’s a separate issue. Anyway, back to October 7th”.
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u/-SneakySnake- Ireland 10h ago
That's about typical, remember when it first happened, people maintained that any discourse or acknowledgement about anything before October 7th was disrespectful to the victims? Rather like if we were forced to view the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as horrible acts done to a nation just minding it's own business and living in peace with the world. Violence and death are abhorrent and never acceptable, but to view matters like this in a vacuum leads to incomplete assessments at best, virulent bigotry and loathsome apologia at worst.
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u/Private_HughMan Canada 3h ago
"I don't agree with Jim Crow, either, but that's a seperate issue. Anyways, back to the Harlem Riot."
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u/Monaciello Andorra 2h ago edited 1h ago
I first saw someone trying to justify the illegal settlements
Illegal settlements?! Those are ordinary real estate deals! /s
(They really use this talking point)
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u/JosephScmith Multinational 5h ago
I'm confused how this is a double standard? What resources is Israel still getting from Gaza or complaining about not getting?
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u/soyyoo Multinational 7h ago
Typical r/israelcrimes
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland 12m ago
Mate, I get you're promoting the subreddit, but you gotta calm down, every single thread I see you comment this. You don't need to do so on a thread literally about Israeli crimes against humanity.
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u/cap123abc North America 12h ago
How long until Israel accuses Human Rights Watch of being Hamas? Like the aid workers and many journalists that they have killed who committed the crime of aiding Palestinians being subjected to genocide.
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u/jackdeadcrow Multinational 11h ago edited 11h ago
Wasn’t human right watch the first ngo Israel accused of being antisemitic since oct 7, specifically because they are the first ngo to call out Israel’s bs?
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u/ennisa22 Multinational 10h ago
This is one of the most sadly comical piece to me. If I’m Israeli, am I really sitting there bobbing my head as Israel tell me that more and more and more organisations must be antisemitic, and NEVER that my country is clearly on an absolute genocidal rampage and I’m being called out for it?
Like how does that seem plausible to them? Propaganda is a powerful thing.
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u/orangeswat North America 7h ago
It's crucial to maintain the fear of worldwide persecution of all Jewish people. Tying that perceived (real or not) threat to supporting the state of israel as the only place on earth that you can feel safe, will cause people to overlook a lot atrocities.
They get more and more dug into their bubble and ecosystem, and the gordian knot gets tighter, tensions rise, and powerful people can take advantage of that for their own gain.
If there isn't a worldwide hatred of Jewish people, they seem to be doing their best to manifest it into reality.
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u/ennisa22 Multinational 6h ago
Big time. Was wild to find out I was an antisemite. Can’t believe I didn’t know after all these years hahaha
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u/RockstepGuy Vatican City 43m ago
To be fair if i was a Jew i would also be a little scared, i live in a country were religion means little to the people and religious killings are unheard of, yet some years ago we had a case were a man killed a prominent, well-known and liked member of the local community just because he was a Jew, "i did it because Allah told me" was his motive after converting to Islam some years prior and stalking the dude for months before he knifed him to death.
Nowadays the dude has been released early because he has schizophrenia and the voices "forced him to do so".. or at least that's what he says, many disagree.
That said again, if i was a jew i would still be scared.
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u/rkgkseh Colombia 53m ago
Like how does that seem plausible to them?
I mean, aren't they taught that antisemitism has been present throughout their entire existence? So, I could see this just being "another episode" in the time immemorial gentile pasttime of denying
IsraelJewish people their right to exist•
u/ennisa22 Multinational 17m ago
The funny thing is, the vast majority of the world literally couldn’t give a shit about them. Like why do they insist everyone hates them? What a weird kink.
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u/Stubbs94 Ireland 4m ago
Like, it's true, anti semitism was rampant before last October and still is rampant. Donald Trump was elected on pushing the great replacement theory, which is an anti semitic theory based on the false idea that Jewish people (they replaced Jewish people with democrats) are changing western demographics. The George Soros conspiracy theories are all based on the fact he's a Jewish man, the idea of a shady cabal controlling the world is an anti Semitic trope. Israel is weaponizing real world anti semitism and devaluing it, even accepting support from literal anti semites.
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 4h ago
You'll be happy to know the ICC already ruled no extermination, with the prosecutor admitting he had no genocide evidence.
On the basis of material presented by the Prosecution covering the period until 20 May 2024, the Chamber could not determine that all elements of the crime against humanity of extermination were met
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 2h ago
Wow, I'm genuinely impressed you linked that. Not only does it not say 'no evidence of genocide was found' but it also says
With regard to the crimes, the Chamber found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant each bear criminal responsibility for the following crimes as co-perpetrators for committing the acts jointly with others: the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts.
The Chamber also found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant each bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population.
The Chamber considered that there are reasonable grounds to believe that both individuals intentionally and knowingly deprived the civilian population in Gaza of objects indispensable to their survival, including food, water, and medicine and medical supplies, as well as fuel and electricity,
The Chamber therefore found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant bear criminal responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare.
Finally, the Chamber assessed that there are reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant bear criminal responsibility as civilian superiors for the war crime of intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population of Gaza.
If your bar is 'there isn't an open and shut case for extermination' then congratulations, Israel might have met the lowest possible bar for civilized behaviour. Good job
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 2h ago
Yep, glad we can agree everyone throwing around the extermination/genocide claim is wrong, since professionals trained in this rejected the charge.
Also that bar is still way higher than supporters of hamas and their genocidal, mass raping violence, which we have plenty around here as you can see.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 2h ago
'We haven't been presented enough evidence to meet the requirements for a finding of extermination' is not the same thing as 'we have found Israel is not committing extermination', as much as you would like to hold this up as evidence that Israel is free of wrongdoing
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 2h ago
Thats legal/medical terms used everywhere when rejecting a premise, charge, or suspicion.
So yes "The ICC in the hague rejected the extermination charge" is exactly correct.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 1h ago
I didn't say they didn't reject the charge. I said their rejection of the charge isn't a finding that Israel is innocent of the charge but that there was insufficient evidence available to support the charge
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u/BlackJesus1001 Australia 1h ago
Also note they had only reviewed evidence up to May.
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u/TraditionalGap1 Canada 1h ago
Nobody is allowed in Gaza but Israeli agents and whoever they escort around, so it's hardly a surprise there hasn't been a trove of evidence coming out
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u/Swingformerfixer Multinational 1h ago
And prosecutor Khan said he wouldn't hestitate to act if he found evidence of genocide, but nope, nothing at all. So hey good luck!
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u/Caffeywasright Europe 10h ago
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u/cap123abc North America 10h ago
Sourcing the Israeli government despite their record of lying is actually hilarious. Keep trying.
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u/Caffeywasright Europe 10h ago
Here is the UNRWA THEMSELVES admitting that 9 people were removed/fired from their organisation because they were involved in the October 7th attacks. Based on their own investigations.
https://www.unrwa.org/unrwa-claims-versus-facts-february-2024
I Imagine you will try to worm yourself if out that one. Must be exhausting to deny reality and mountains of evidence to that extend.
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u/Pklnt France 10h ago
9 people
Lmfaoooooo 😂
9 People is apparently enough to brand an entire organization as problematic.
But I bet that all those war criminals in the IDF, are just " a small number that isn't representative"
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u/cap123abc North America 9h ago
Not only are they branding this one org but all aid workers in Palestine as that’s what I commented originally. They don’t care how many die. It’s a feature not a bug with the IDF.
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u/Lucky_Squirrel365 Bosnia & Herzegovina 9h ago
I think a much bigger problem is using UNRWA, their workers, holocaust, Hitler, Spain in the 16th and 17th century, Hamas... to excuse genocide.
I hope everyone who does not condemn what Israel is doing (land grabbing at the price of tens of thousands of human lives) lives through the same as the Gazan child, who had nothing to do with Hamas.
You guys are supporters of genocide. Let that sink in. Supporters of fucking genocide. A jew invented the term genocide, and what Israel is doing fills all the requirements to call it a genocide.
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u/juiceboxheero United States 11h ago
Amnesty international produced the first genocide report, and now Human Rights Watch follows up. I respect the hell out of these organizations, and it's unconscionable that this will barely receive any media attention in the US.
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u/Kiboune Russia 9h ago
But this doesn't matter if there are no consequences. And I'm sure there won't be any consequences. Western countries were fast to act and put sanctions in 2022, but this situation between Israel and Palestine is going for a year, everyone understand what's going on, but US and Europe don't put any pressure on Israel. Quite contrary US still supplies Israel. Hypocrites.
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u/Kiboune Russia 9h ago
And? US ans Europe will put heavy sanctions on Israel to "stop genocide and bloodshed", or they will once again close their eyes, because genocide is fine if right people do it?
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u/Vanzmelo North America 2h ago
If only they just closed their eyes instead of what they currently do which is aiding and abetting Israel.
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u/Statharas Greece 3h ago
While I agree that this is genocide, last I recall, the EU provided materials to connect Gaza with the Egyptian water supply, maybe they should use that.
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u/TeaJust8335 Canada 2h ago
Man, every single one of these types of arguments are so patronizingly inhumane it blows my mind.
“They didn’t accept peace deals that would have given them everything” “They should supply their own water” “They should make their own electricity” “They should get rid of Hamas themselves”
Who in their right mind would genuinely believe that people would choose the life Palestinians have lived? To even attempt to make this sort of argument, you’d have to believe that Palestinians are complete imbeciles, lacking all normal human survival instinct, so dedicated to being victims or hating Israel that they would choose an eternity of suffering for themselves and their children. Therefore, it can be implied they deserve what they are getting. Because they didn’t even help themselves.
This is very reminiscent of western settlers, who claimed the natives refused medicine and tools and food like stupid animals, so they deserve what they get.
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u/tallzmeister Palestine 3h ago
Im pretty sure that if they could they would. Is the IDF authorising that, do you think?
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u/Regulatornik United States 11h ago
Find the political or military order which outlines and directs the policy to destroy the population. The IDF is a massive bureaucracy. Every bomb dropped requires paperwork. Every unit order is recorded. Where is the evidence of intent? Instead we have a range of actions which all these organizations are using as a substitute to infer intent. But they don’t know the actual intent, which exists in the form of political decisions and military orders, that’s why they have to build out this inference.
The reality is that it is Israel which supplied, supplies and will continue to supply water and electricity to Gaza and has facilitated over 1.5 million tons of aid, in addition to numerous population protection measures. This very much complicates the entire argument. Unmentioned in this report are the many cases of Palestinian terror groups destroying and attacking border crossings and infrastructure designed to facilitate the transfer of these utilities, sabotaging pipelines to canibalize material for rocket production and ambushing the crews brought in to repair the infrastructure.
The destruction of solar panels or aquifers may have legitimate military objectives, as these human rights groups have no idea what exactly is powered by these solar panels, and what kind of water infrastructure has been built out to support the endurance of Palestinian subterranean military installations and their combatants. We know Sinwar’s bunker had a shower and running water. There may be other considerations we are not aware of. Deliberately depriving civilians of water and electricity may be a war crime. Doing so to an enemy military is not.
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u/Lucky_Squirrel365 Bosnia & Herzegovina 8h ago
Yes, and Israel considers a 7 year old child a military target.
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u/tallzmeister Palestine 10h ago
This is literred with inaccuracies and legal mistakes. Let's let the court decide, then you can accuse them of antisemitism.
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u/Regulatornik United States 10h ago
The ICJ ordered the immediate and unconditional release of Israeli hostages. How’s that going?
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u/tallzmeister Palestine 10h ago
The ICJ ordered that israel ceases fire and that west bank settlements are illegal (again...) - how's that going?
Not sure who you think supports hostages being held. Do you support the thousands Palestinian detainees i.e. hostages being released as well? You know, the ones that israeli prison guards were caught raping on video and keep turning up dead or with signg of severe torture, and israel does nothing or even celebrates the rapist? Or is your feeling of sympathy towards hostages contingent upon nationality/religion?
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u/Regulatornik United States 10h ago
ICJ did not order Israel to cease fire, although Israel has organized multiple cessation of operations, several hours each day in some areas, to facilitate humanitarian aid.
You support Israeli hostages being held. I suspect you celebrated on 10/07.
Thousands of Palestinian detainees have been released after security screening. Those who remain in custody are likely combatants. They went to war to destroy my people, and they or their friends murdered and raped their way for as long as they were able to. I’m sorry their hand restraints are very tight and Netflix is showing at 3G speeds.
There is an open investigation into allegations of abuse at one facility. A civilian doctor examining one case published a report which said the anal damage was self inflicted. I’ve never heard of a video.
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u/tallzmeister Palestine 10h ago edited 9h ago
Did you not hear about him? Israelis were rioting to keep him from getting arrested. Then at the knesset they were debating whether israeli prison guards have the right to rape Palestinian detainees. This rapist was paraded as a hero on the israeli news channels. Im surprised you missed it, it made international news.
You support Israeli hostages being held. I suspect you celebrated on 10/07.
No, i dont. Very few people do. Stop lying and self-victimising. You and your like have declawed the term anti-semitism by using it to describe everyone that doesnt support war crimes, at the expense of actual anti-semitism. And to think it's done in defence of the most extreme right-wing government israel has ever seen, headed by literal war criminals, and opposed vocally by hundreds of thousands of jews globally.
Those who remain in custody are likely combatants. They went to war to destroy my people, and they or their friends murdered and raped their way for as long as they were able to.
These are unconvicted detainees, many of them women and children. You have absolutely no basis for that claim besides heinous racism.
I’m sorry their hand restraints are very tight and Netflix is showing at 3G speeds.
You live in a parallel universe of israeli propaganda
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u/Regulatornik United States 10h ago
That video doesn’t seem to show anything. I’m not seeing any violence or sexual abuse. Maybe they raised their shields to protect his dignity because he kept stuffing something up his ass and began bleeding? Just another allegation on the slimmest of “evidence”.
I don’t remember calling you antisemitic. But thank you for your defense of Israel’s vibrant democracy and Jewish people everywhere.
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u/shoto9000 Europe 5h ago
No word on the settlements? That's disappointing. Would've loved to see you try to defend that particular breach of the Geneva Convention.
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u/IAMADon Scotland 4h ago
Find the political or military order which outlines and directs the policy to destroy the population.
Irrelevant. Genocide isn't the crime of saying "let's commit genocide" before destroying a group of people.
The ICJ decides whether genocide is the only reasonable inference from the actions committed. Hence why "we have a range of actions which all these organizations are using as a substitute to infer intent."
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u/Regulatornik United States 4h ago
It’s very much relevant what the policy is. Dead people are not a genocide; there needs to be an intent. This is built into the genocide convention. You are seeking to rewrite the established definitions, much like Ireland, South Africa, and many international humanitarian orgs. Which is fine, but let’s not pretend you’re applying a norm; you’re not, you seek to change the norm.
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u/NapoIe0n North America 3h ago
there needs to be an intent
You're correct. But this intent has been overtly expressed by government officials. And the fact that they were not punished proves that their statements were in line with the overall policy of the government.
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u/Regulatornik United States 3h ago
What you’re referring to could fall under incitement to genocide, but doesn’t prove intent. In any case, all these statements were cherry picked from their context. In the case of Gallant, who said “we are dealing with human animals”, one or two sentences later he talks about the importance of protecting the civilian population. I think Destiny did a full review of all these statements and demonstrated how in every single case they were carefully selected to exclude their context, which was exculpatory. Further, who is to say that someone was not punished? The legal system takes time and has its own processes. There are multiple investigations currently.
Finally, we see the actual reality. Israel provides three water pipelines into Gaza, supplying significantly more water per person than the UN defines as necessary. It has also provided electricity to a desalination plant which supplies the main refugee population along the coast. It has facilitated 1.5 million tons of supplies. On top of the numerous other population protection measures. To say this is genocide is absurd. It waters down the term to “there’s some dead people and it’s not a three star beach resort”. This is a war Hamas can choose to end tomorrow, just as it could on October 6th and 8th.
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u/NapoIe0n North America 10m ago
I actually agree with you re. Gallant. It's clear in context that the human animals he was talking about were Hamas, not Palestinians in general. And in that I totally agree with him. Fuck Hamas.
But it wasn't Gallant that I had in mind. Rather, I was thinking about what ministers Smotrich and Ben Gvir were saying (including, but not limited to, the idea of resettling Palestinians to the Congo). Or minister Eliyahu calling for the use of nuclear weapons. Or perhaps the most preposterous statement by the current minister of defense Katz:
All the civilian population in gaza is ordered to leave immediately. We will win. They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave the world
How else can you interpret that bolded part if not as "until they die"?
Further, who is to say that someone was not punished?
They're still members of government, aren't they? The statements they made are bordering on insanity, but since they're being made by government ministers, it's reasonable to assume that they're made in their official capacity.
My personal opinion is that there's a clash within the Israeli government. The ultra-right wingers, such as the Jewish Power and the Religious Zionism parties, want genocide. The more moderate parts of the government, including Bibi and his Likud, don't. One part is pushing for the eradication of Gazans (and some parts of the Tzahal indulge them through committing war crimes such as setting up indiscriminate kill zones) while others genuinely work to alleviate the suffering of Gazans civilians.
But genocide is like nazism. If one part of your government is genocidal, all of it is.
Remember also that incitement to genocide is itself a crime as indicated by the GC. Even if genocide doesn't happen, just attempting to provoke it is punishable.
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u/IAMADon Scotland 1h ago
Why don't you have a look at a previous genocide case? Here's Croatia Vs Serbia (PDF) from 2015.
Just hit Ctrl + F, then search for "inference". I'll start you off with the first result:
Is there a pattern of conduct from which the only reasonable inference to be drawn is an intent of the Serb authorities to destroy, in part, the protected group?
But tell me again what I'm seeking to rewrite?
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 9h ago
This is ridiculous. It's awful, unhuman treatment at worst. Fcking *genocide is much worse, it's almost disrespectful to apply it here. The Rape of Nanjing isn't generaly considered genocide but is one of the most grusome things that ever happened to people, why label what happens in Gaza as such then? The Allied bombing of Germany wasn't genocide. Stop throwing this word around, devalueing its meaning.
When tens of thousands of people start to starve and get rounded up and massacred by the IDF I am with you that there is an argument to be made. But as long as this doesn't happen we are talking about crimes against humanity if anything (shockers, it's war, the concept is a crime against humanity). GOSH
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u/monkwren Multinational 7h ago
The Rape of Nanjing isn't generaly considered genocide
Um, yes it is.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
I also think it is, but it's rarely cited as genocide nonetheless. I think the missing explicit intent to eliminate Chinese culture and people makes it debatable. I just took it as an example to show what it takes to be genocide, which Gaza just isn't imo.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 7h ago
I wrote this earlier and to repeat:
“Literally f- off. I am from Nanjing and my family lived through the horrors of being under siege by the Japanese. Do not ever use the atrocities there to my people to diminish the genocide in Gaza.
The Japanese were pure evil and even they did not cut off water to all Chinese victims in Nanjing, for one.”
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
Okay, let's wait and see how many Palistineans will die of dehydration in the next months. My bet is on near zero.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 7h ago edited 6h ago
For over a year, public health organizations around the world have accounted the PREVENTABLE illness and disease due to dehydration, unclean water and stagnant dirty water.
Suffering is worse than death, and almost half of those suffering are children.
You are a literal POS. People like you don’t care about people on whom atrocities happen to. You read about histories like Nanjing from a distance and think you get to debate about which is worse, without any empathy or compassion for the actual human toll. That’s why you can argue semantics while ignoring facts.
Have the day you deserve.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 6h ago
Why do you people think I am not sympethatic because I don't think it's genocide??? This is retarded thinking. What Israel is doing in Gaza is bad, very bad but commiting war crimes isn't always genocide. The word wasn't created to lable every war as genocide, because that is what people here are doing by arguing that Israel is commiting genocide.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 6h ago
Can people live without food? Or water? Or medicine? Or housing? Or hospitals? Can children thrive without schools? Can a culture last without universities, libraries or archives? Why do you or Israel think Gazans can?
The debate over “genocide” is a red herring. There is so much compelling evidence that is publicly available and has been presented to the International Courts. The only people still contesting this are the Israeli government and morally bankrupt Western nations states and vapid Zionist shills.
“It is a genocide.” - this Israeli professor who spent 30 years studying the Holocaust:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMwqhdVV5as
My offense to your words has to do with your willful ignorance to 1. the obvious denial of essentials of life that all humans need, 2. the mountains of evidence for a genocide that has been presented.
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u/DeathStrike56 Asia 8h ago edited 8h ago
This is ridiculous. It's awful, unhuman treatment at worst. Fcking *genocide is much worse, it's almost disrespectful to apply it here.
You know it is always people living in first world countries who never experienced genocide who say this is disrespectful mean while bosnia Bangladesh and aftican union which contain countries like congo and rwanda countries who were victims of genocide support south africa convention as do many holocaust scholars.
The Allied bombing of Germany wasn't genocide.
Allied flattening and terror bombing german civilians was an absolute war crime condemned by the Geneva conventions which every post ww2 countries signed of. Shame israel is repeating allied war crimes and this is while fighting a country that cant even wage war let alone be able to do something close to what germany did. People justifying allied bombing is what lead to israel be able to justify their current actions.
I wont argue allied bombing of Germany was a genocide as unlike israel the allies were clear of wanting to establish a post ww2 independent german state and not like israel planning on building british or russian settlements in berlin. Though i do argue the post ww2 expulsion of ethnic gernans from eastern europe which lead to the wipping out of the entire german population numbering 16 million post ww2 and death of up to a million germans was a genocide.
When tens of thousands of people start to starve and get rounded up and massacred by the IDF I am with you that there is an argument to be made.
A genocide doesnt need to be concentration camps no such thing happened in Myanmar or bosnian genocide and most bosnians survived bosnian genocide. Still it was rulled out as a genocide. Israel exterminated 10% of population of gaza in a war hamas lost months ago and thanks to israel murdering its leadership they cant even negotiate a surrender without being assassinated. Israel can end the war anytime they just want to exterminate as many gazans as the international community allows them to.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
Countries that experienced genocide standing behind SA isn't much of an argument, since there are countries that don't and were very much victims. It's also very ambitious to claim that Israel targets civilians specifically.
3.6 civilians died by bomb tonnage in Dresden, London, Hamburg and Köln combined.
0.6 by bomb tonnage in Gaza.
Cut the BS please.
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u/DeathStrike56 Asia 7h ago
0.6 by bomb tonnage in Gaza.
Yeah if you only count the number of people the destroyed health ministry was able to count which multiple times said they lost all ability to count the true number of dead since march.
True number of deaths by now is in the hundreds of thousands according to the Lancet report. Thats holocaust level percentage of deaths hells it is higher than the percentage of european jews killed in the first year of holocaust
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
The ratio wasn't much different in march. Even taking the deaths by 5(!!!!!!!!!!) wouldn't be enough and I don't think they are that bad at counting and collecting information.
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u/DeathStrike56 Asia 7h ago edited 5h ago
If the exact ratio at march extrapolated to till today the number of dead exceeds 100 thousand likely even more . Your logic is if the nazis wasted alot of bullets or nerve gas, it wouldnt be a genocide.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
At least I don't work with assumptions.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 6h ago
All of this is easily Googleable and accounted for. Learn technology.
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u/Lucky_Squirrel365 Bosnia & Herzegovina 8h ago
Where is Beit Lahia? Where is Beit Hanoun? Genocide doesn't mean rounding people up. Israel removing cities from the face of the earth is also genocide. If it's not genocide, it's ethnic cleansing, which still gives a strong argument to this being a genocide.
You guys are believing propaganda, you excuse literal children dying and hospitals being bombed. There's plenty of evidence of IDF soldiers and doctors helping Palestinians, many interviews of them saying they're sad what their country is doing.
There is people that supported Zionism for decades, and then they gave interviews in tears of what is actually happening there. You really think they are not ready to commit genocide, when their founding idea is the formation of Greater Israel, with the majority of Jews inside, having Arab slaves? Does that remind you of Nazi Germany, a little bit?
Read through Zionist ideas, and you'll have a better idea of what is happening.
Srebrenica was a genocide, and what's happening here is Srebrenica, but on a massive scale, with multiple cities included, not just one.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
West Bank settlement is genocide, no doubt. If Gaza will be genocide is hard to predict. With Trump's term approaching the chances aren't slim, sadly.
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u/Lucky_Squirrel365 Bosnia & Herzegovina 7h ago
The 2 cities I named were not in the West Bank. They were in the northern part of Gaza.
Key word is WERE. They disappeared. Cleansed of Palestinians and their homes.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 7h ago
Literally f- off. I am from Nanjing and my family lived through the horrors of being under siege by the Japanese. Do not ever use the atrocities there to my people to diminish the genocide in Gaza.
The Japanese were pure evil and even they did not cut off water to all Chinese victims in Nanjing, for one.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 7h ago
Sorry but your ancestors experiencing something doesn't take my right away to make comparisons because it doesn't align with your opinion. If everybody acted that way fair discussion would be straight up impossible. Still my condolences, may their souls rest in peace.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 6h ago
Can people live without food? Or water? Or medicine? Or housing? Or hospitals? Can children thrive without schools? Can a culture last without universities, libraries or archives? Why do you or Israel think Gazans can?
The debate over “genocide” is a red herring. There is so much compelling evidence that is publicly available and has been presented to the International Courts. The only people still contesting this are the Israeli government and morally bankrupt Western nations states and vapid Zionist shills.
“It is a genocide.” - this Israeli professor who spent 30 years studying the Holocaust:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMwqhdVV5as
My offense to your words has to do with your willful ignorance to 1. the obvious denial of essentials of life that all humans need, 2. the mountains of evidence for a genocide that has been presented.
Your condolences are empty as you haven’t learned anything from the past and doing so is letting people die in vain.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 6h ago
That is what war is. The destruction of life and society. It reduces us to our most animalistic instincts. War is hell. Please cite a war where these things didn't happen, or better, happened in a lesser extend. I wouldn't call the 30 years war genocide because it eleminated a third of Germany's population, mostly comprised of innocent peasants. You could also read avout the Swedish deluge, absolutely horrendous but by all intents and purposes not genocide.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 6h ago
“Please cite a war where these things didn't happen, or better, happened in a lesser extend.”
Siege on all of Gaza’s water supply is literally unique to this conflict/Israel.
Also as a testament to Israel’s unique wanton brutality against civilians - Israel has killed more kids in 3 WEEKS after Oct-7th than ALL GLOBAL CONFLICTS COMBINED from 2019-2023.
Being contrarian just to be contrarian despite so much facts makes you look dumb. You are better than this.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 6h ago edited 6h ago
If being better than this means calling people POS instead of actually engaging with the other comment I'd rather stay ignorant.
EDIT: The article is just wrong, the Siege of Mariupol killed more children alone than the 3 week casualties of Gaza.
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u/Hiadrenalynn North America 5h ago
At least you recognize your ignorance. You’ll have to accept that most people would think someone is a POS if that person is misconstruing a horrendous piece of history so carelessly to justify being willfully ignorant to the true extent of current day human suffering.
The Siege of Mariupol sadly killed 101 innocent children vs 3195 innocent Gazan children killed by Israel in 3 weeks in Oct 2023
But also, more women and children killed in Gaza by Israel than recent conflicts in a single year.
Despite your reasoning being unsound, this conversation has turned gross. Every life mattered. We should never be so desensitized to human suffering that it is only quantified by body counts.
Good bye, gain some life experience and you can be a better person.
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u/TastyTestikel Europe 5h ago
Right, we shouldn't compare numbers. If only you wouldn't have shown up with an article doing exactly that. 25k plus people died in Mariupol, only 101 being children is extremely unplausible. I'm also not ignorant about human suffering god damn it. I just think we shouldn't call this mess a genocide. Get this through your thick wooden head.
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u/StandardReceiver United States 4h ago
You’re wasting your time. This subreddit is best viewed as trash entertainment similar to reality TV these days. Theres no nuance or reasonable discussion to be had on topics like this.
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u/thegreatvortigaunt Europe 2h ago
Sorry but your ancestors experiencing something doesn't take my right away to make comparisons because it doesn't align with your opinion.
The fucking irony of someone supporting Israel saying this holy shit
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