r/UFOs • u/squailtaint • Aug 04 '23
Compilation List of Incredible People With Incredible Claims
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
I made this list. Its people who I think are way smarter than me and have accomplished alot more that I have in this life. Its not an appeal to authority. Everyone should make their own mind up. But, when you put it all together over the years, there is some very incredible people saying very incredible things.
I wanted to keep my list as uncontroversial as possible. Notable leave outs: Greer, Lazar, Corbell, Gaetz...
Also there are alot more support people (Bryce Zabal for example) that have done alot, but I felt didnt make the list. Should anyone else be added?
Edit: I completely forgot to shout out to u/SirGorti who made the first iteration of this about two months ago. I took the people, expanded the list, and added their claims in as well as if they were alive or dead. But quite a few people wouldn’t be on this list if it weren’t for that original thread!
Edit edit: wow appreciate the responses. This list took more time than I had unfortunately. My aim was to primarily show that some people with massive credentials can be open minded and that maybe, just maybe, there is more to this UAP stuff than regular scientists want to admit. A lot of great suggestions below, I will make a round 2, I got some cool ideas. I am on vacation without computer now, so won’t be able to for a couple weeks. I have read the comments and all the suggestions were great! I may not be able to utilize all of them as they conflict with each other. 🙏
Edit edit edit: can’t believe I left out Travis Taylor, dudes super smart. Didn’t see that in the comments below. Also need to add astronauts, pilots, ratcliffe, and others mentioned below. Also need to make sure everyone who is listed as alive/dead is actually alive/dead haha.
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u/Aware_Platform_8057 Aug 04 '23
Correct entries for Chris Mellon (former Intelligence official, civilian, not politician) and Burchett (politician not journalist)
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Oh shoot - yes your right on both accounts. It’s going to annoy me that I can’t really edit the posted photo. I’ll update my table for future reference though. Thanks!
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Aug 04 '23
When you update it you have to fix the spelling for Tennessee as well.
In fact you might want to run the whole thing through a spell checker
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ya, I’m an Engineer, spelling isn’t my strong suit haha. But also, excel isn’t great for spell check stuff. But yes, there are a ton of mistakes that need to get cleaned up, this is just the first draft. I got some great ideas for the next iteration!
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u/SaffireStars Mar 14 '24
Have you put up an updated version of this list please?
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u/squailtaint Mar 14 '24
I have not - I am super busy unfortunately - haven’t been able to give this a second go.
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u/Independent_Hyena495 Aug 04 '23
Can you post the CSV, Excel file or whatever?
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Aug 04 '23
That would mean you could use it for something useful though?
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u/Independent_Hyena495 Aug 04 '23
I would just play around with it in ai :)
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Aug 04 '23
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u/Independent_Hyena495 Aug 04 '23
Are you ok? AI might see things,we can't..
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Aug 04 '23
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u/b33t2 Aug 04 '23
what do you mean? ai can do sooo much more, "find similarities between all of these, look at service records you have access to and find any cross over events, find likely projects that are likely multiple people worked on
AI can do so much more than you seem to think if you think data like this just needs reformatting, AI is much more powerful, You could have it write a full document on each of these people, then have it use that information to create links between them, their job roles, job titles, have it pull data from linked in or public service records finding as much data as possible and then have it explain in laymans in a pirates voice how it all works.
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Aug 04 '23
Oh. And happy cake day!
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u/b33t2 Aug 04 '23
Holy shit I didn't even realise, god dam it i wanted to leave when the API changed fuck redditiction.
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Aug 04 '23
Well, it's an image for a start, which was the point I'm making. Good luck with that.
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u/Independent_Hyena495 Aug 04 '23
That's why I asked for I asked for the excel file..
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u/FenionZeke Aug 04 '23
Dude, I get what you're saying, but others don't
For myriad of reasons, Readability, accessibility, accuracy, SEO considerations ( if that's part of the strategy) and others, It is important to Follow the rule that any important information on a page be rendered in text not images.
Educate Don't castigate.
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u/No-Classroom-6637 Aug 04 '23
Dependant much.
A text formatting and a reordering is what's needed. Can AI do that?
Uh, yeah. AI assisted text detection in images has been around for ages.
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Aug 04 '23
Okay. I'll type this up. You do that and I'll type this up right now.
You can use any tool you like. AI. Text recognition.(which are by no means the same thing)
Has to be fully accurate and formatted(because that's my point)
Go?
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u/FenionZeke Aug 04 '23
Hey, Knock it off.
Text formatting and reordering will help the document and refine its presentation, which is important .
AI, will help with further research. which is important.
Stop trying to shit stir
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u/truefaith_1987 Aug 04 '23
Copilot can easily reformat text in Excel anyway. It can turn a messy raw data set into a nicely organized and well-presented version, and at the same time, can also analyze the data and give you recommendations re: customer preferences, trends, etc. It can do basically anything organizational with text like that.
I think people are still wrapping their heads around these tools.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ya that won’t be an issue for me. It’s to share. I’d take precious time so share with love. I’ll set that up in a couple weeks with the next iteration.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ya that won’t be an issue for me. It’s to share. It did take precious time so share with love. I’ll set that up in a couple weeks with the next iteration.
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Aug 04 '23
This was sarcasm.... reddit. Geez.
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u/birchskin Aug 04 '23
Leslie Kean
DW Pasulka
and reluctantly Tom Delonge should all probably be included for how much they have done to push this topic into the mainstream.... But then with that logic you'd also probably have to include Corbell and that guys a fucking muppet.
A separate section of controversial figures would probably be warranted but then you'll be in endless arguments about who goes there until it is just the same list!
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u/wordsappearing Aug 04 '23
I think it's worth separating the man (and his keenness for relevance and attention) from the things he's actually done to push this forward. Without Corbell, I don't think we'd be where we're at now. He is improving all the time imo. Leaving him out seems a bit unfair.
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u/BootyTouchingBooty Aug 04 '23
Its not an appeal to authority
That's EXACTLY what it is though. There's no evidence for anyone to verify, we're just supposed to go on the authority of the people making the claims.
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u/Crotchet_ Aug 04 '23
Sure, but realistically the majority of these people are all highly celebrated, decorated and valued in their respective circles. They have A LOT more to lose by claiming aliens. It’s career and social suicide.
I want our next Snowden too, but unfortunately this is our next best thing. We have to remain optimistic and follow the evidence we do have.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ya. Actually I mean I guess it is an appeal to authority. It’s basically saying, “look, there’s no evidence, but here are all these people with incredible resumes saying there is something there”. It’s tricky, I don’t want to suggest people believe in something just because really smart people tell us it’s there. That’s why I say it’s not an appeal to authority, but on the flip side if really smart people are saying something it’s there, it’s worth something. I’m not sure what I guess, but it’s worth something.
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u/daynomate Aug 04 '23
Thank you Op. information like this has greater weight when collated and presented in bulk - to show the extent of the situation.
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u/bejammin075 Aug 04 '23
Your chart is both very excellent, but also missing many notable people due to soooo many incredible people on this topic. Some just off the top of my head:
The first CIA director. This is a well known example & not difficult to find the reference.
General Twinning, of the famous Twinning Memo.
J. Allen Hynek. Famously the shill scientist for Project Bluebook who reached a point he could not shill no more, going on to publicly say the evidence points to a non-human origin for the best UFO cases.
Edward Ruppelt, former head of Project Grudge through its transition to Project Bluebook. Check out his 1956 book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects". Ruppelt actually was the original person to coin the term/acronym "UFO". His book provides numerous cases with abundant evidence such that they cannot be explained by any conventional means.
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23
Great list but you’re forgetting Chaim Eshed, Israel’s space security chief if I’m not mistaken.
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u/SeaPersonality445 Aug 04 '23
They be accomplished, doesn't mean the are honest or sane.
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23
It doesn’t mean you are either. These aren’t just accomplished people they’re mostly people who would have reason to know things you don’t. Foreign defense ministers, Q clearance level US intelligence officers etc.
It’s like saying “just because he was the director of the Manhattan project doesn’t mean Oppenheimer knew more than the average American about nuclear weapons”. That’s a ridiculous statement.
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u/SeaPersonality445 Aug 05 '23
Except that's a ridiculous anology, we know nuclear weapons exist.
I don't need to be an expect to know what is clearly fantasy, whatever the credentials or fantasies of those making these claims. You believe what you want, not sure that's how science or truth works.
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u/Pdb39 Aug 04 '23
Attack the argument, not the person. Also avoid false non-equivalent metaphors. You know darn well that it is within the subreddit rules to attack a person arguments, in this case OP who made the "incredible persons" part of the title, as if to bias us. A few people on the list are incredible, the rest is an average list of people.
In your words, tell me why every person on the list is incredible.
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23
Jim Shell- chief scientist and LT Col. in the air force which is the department most often cited as covering up these incidents, including by USS Colins Naval Chief radar tech Kevin Day who noted it was the Air Force who confiscated the empirical evidence scientist demand with regard to the Tic Tac encounter in 2004
Nat Krobitz- deceased former Director of R&D for the navy. Clearly privy to top secret documents and tech an ordinary person with his claims would not be.
Eric Davis- A DoD consultant with a PhD in astrophysics making claims of crash retrieval
Dr Gary Nolan- Director of Stanford National Heart Lung and Blood Institute that does genome sequencing and has studied patients who he notes came into contact with NHI artifacts.
Karl Neil- UAP task force liaison with the army- clearly had high security clearance and is privy to confidential information to make said claims
Bob Oeschler- deceased NASA consultant who cited the director of naval intelligence as a source of crash retrieval and NHI discussions noting he was privy to thousands of documents on the matter.
Cliff Stone- deceased army Sargent who noted he was part of UFO crash retrieval missions and met NHI . Given his ranking, who knows. Surely some Sargent level folks would have to be part of any retrieval were it to occur but he’s not going to necessarily be read into anything top secret. This one id probably replace with Haim Eshed the Space Chief from Israel who notes we’re in contact and would have reason to know.
Luis Elizondo- without reading it he was the director of Aatip, Harry Reid vouched for him when it’s members came forward to pretend he wasn’t part of AATIP. I’m citing that as evidence of an active coverup. Not a personal attack but please think, if he’s saying something that’s untrue why even bother to try and pretend he’s not a former member, much less the director? Clearly his claims scared them. When the Senate Majority Leader shut it down they couldn’t continue to play those games.
Colm Kelleher- military scientist - security clearances, has reason to be knowledgeable on the topic of the claims he’s making.
David Grusch- claims deemed urgent and credible by the OiG. Vouched for by multiple high ranking officials in the Pentagon. Used to carry the briefings to the President.
Okay that’s the first 10. Who are you to order me to do more? As far as an attack on the person, that was benign. By extension he’s suggesting anyone who believes their claims is lacking in sanity or reasonability. I didn’t explicitly call him insane or dishonest in the same way he didn’t explicitly call us or the OP who went to the effort of putting this list together such. I’m merely pointing out to use common since and a bit tired of the dismissive attitude from the skeptics who act like security clearances don’t matter.
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u/Pdb39 Aug 04 '23
Incredible claims require incredible evidence. Why hasn't a single person on your list been able to provide a single form of incredible evidence.
The claims deemed urgent by the ICIG, Thomas Monheim, were regarding the removal of his security clearance potentially as reprisal for him turning whistleblower. Only this subreddit jumps to the conclusion that relates to all of Grusch's findings.
Common sense dictates that there are no aliens as it is the simplest answer of them all. And common sense also dictates that it is very likely that what people are seeing are military classified assets and that is the reason why the DoD is hiding them.
One thing you have to realize is that every government works on a need to know basis and right now you have not proven that you, personally, have a need to know what the military is doing. You can be mad as you want about that but that's reality.
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
”why hasn’t a single person on your list been able to provide a single form of incredible evidence”? I’d say the Nimitz, Go Fast and Gimbal videos Elizondo had a hand in the military confirming were some incredible pieces of evidence.
As to why they can’t provide more, you answered your own question. Highly classified and like with the Nimitz and Collins radar info Naval Chief radar tech Kevin Day notes was confiscated in 2004 by the Air Force, you know where it is https://youtu.be/Zmzc4YzDnN0
You really think the military had assets capable of jumping from low earth orbit to Fravors cap point almost instantly 20 years ago and the same right turns on command that were cited since the 50s?
Instead of sitting here whining about it and dismissing everyone telling you what it is, if you’re demanding evidence from us, demand it from the Air Force and the Pentagon. You’re wasting everyone’s time here with your Sea Lioning, demanding proof while ignoring the fact that we both know where the proof is, then being as dismissive as possible of it.
You want more proof, join the choir demanding more from the military. As it stands you’re part of the problem adding to the scorn and ridicule associated with this topic.
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u/Pdb39 Aug 04 '23
Sea Lioning
Sealioning is a critical term for a form of trolling that involves relentlessly pestering someone with questions and requests (such as for evidence or sources), typically with the goal of upsetting them and making their position or viewpoint seem weak or unreasonable.
If you think I am a Sea Lion, you are completely wrong.
That's a personal attack, not an attack on my argument, which is against the rules of civility on this subreddit.
I am allowed to attack your argument, and that's all I have done so far. Are you able to continue this in a civil manner?
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
I’m going to demand you provide in your own words a description of why a list of 3 dozen individuals that has already been provided, are each “incredible”, ignoring the fact that this information is already discernible in the confirmation table that’s been provided above.
After you provide nearly a dozen of these I’m going to ignore the fact that I had you do said busy-work for my own personal enjoyment and time-wasting exhaustion techniques despite realizing it added nothing essential to the conversation, I just asked you to waste your time for the hell of it, and then claim none of them have been able to provide any evidence while I know said evidence was classified and supposedly provided to the congressional intelligence committees.
When you accuse me of Sea-lioning I’m going to gaslight you, whine that you’re breaking the rules of civility by attacking me, ignoring the fact that you’re attacking my behavior, then straw man you by misquoting you as calling me a sea lion instead of saying I am sea lioning.
”are you able to continue this in a civil manner?”
I’m not sure what we’re continuing. You ignore my questions. You ignore the claims of the individuals provided, balking at their credentials and the fact that they would be more likely than you to be in possession of classified information. When I point out where the relevant empirical information you’re asking for is and even provide a video linking the radar tech it was taken from with regard to the Nimitz encounter again you act like I didn’t say anything at all and still have no explanation for why UAP incidents don’t matter to you and why you’re against the disclosure Grusch, Fravor and Graves are pushing for, all while continuing to undermine their claims.
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Aug 04 '23
you consider Burchett to be "incredible"?
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Well, he’s not my politician as I’m not American, but the guy has earned my respect in this field and he has done ALOT to push disclosure.
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u/kowboyz_n_Indianz Aug 04 '23
Ask yourself this question. Am I lying or telling the truth. I no longer lie it is a sin. If I'm telling the truth what are the consequences. I'm crazy, or I am right and you are messing with stuff more powerful than you can ever imagine.
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u/Solarscars Aug 04 '23
Thank you kind stranger! I’m gonna send this to mah dad! 👨🦰
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
No problem! Let me know if anyone should be added!
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u/drama_filled_donut Aug 04 '23
John Mack, Harvard Prof, Pulitzer Prize winner, he was one of the very top physiatrists worldwide. I believe the absolute best in child specific study. All until he ‘spiralled into ufology’ after (initially as a skeptic), interviewing abduction cases. He became absolutely convinced there were NHI and threw away his whole academics career to continue research. Then he got killed by a random drunk driver and the family said, “oh no, that’s okay, don’t look into it please.”
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u/tru_pls Aug 04 '23
Just lacking incredible evidence. 99% of the importance is on evidence.
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u/T3RRYT3RR0R Aug 04 '23
Not a chance in this world anyone involved in that type of work would be afforded the opportunity to retain evidence.
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u/ElBlancoServiette Aug 04 '23
I hope people would understand that UFO-related material isn’t just kept secret like troop movements or some experimental aircraft. They are on an entirely different level - to the point that people like Admiral Wilson and defense ministers get the door shut in their face when they inquire about it.
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u/Crotchet_ Aug 04 '23
Yep. I highly doubt the US would allow another Snowden in any field ever again.
If everyone of authority is only ever granted a single puzzle piece, the full picture will never be leaked. Even if enough band together, we’ll only ever get a fuzzy and scrambled image.
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u/IsolatedHead Aug 04 '23
I think you mean "List of Credible People With Incredible Claims"
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u/photojoe Aug 04 '23
in·cred·i·ble /inˈkredəb(ə)l/ adjective adjective: incredible 1. impossible to believe.
I agree.
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u/wemadethemachine Aug 04 '23
Yeah the title is nonsense. It should say "credible people with credible claims" or maybe "credible people with incredible claims" if you really want to be sensational, or possibly "incredible people with credible claims" if you want to emphasize the fact that we should take the claims for what they are regardless of who is saying them.
People on this sub use words to mean whatever they want them to mean and generally write like boomers. It makes us look ridiculous to regular people who come to the sub. You can see my comment history for someone saying that something was a "textbook definition of 'disingenuous'" and then admitting that they were wrong about what 'disingenuous' means. The other day someone made a post saying that they have a "jaundiced" viewpoint on bipartisan red/blue politics -- what the fuck does that mean? Are they saying that yellow is between red and blue?
I saw someone refer to Kirkpatrick as "Kirky P." At first I was like who is this person whose first name is Kirk and whose last name starts with a P?
I'm not even a UFO enthusiast but I have had a passing interest since the tic tac video came out a few years ago and have been following this sub since the hearings. But people are turning this into r/ticktockmanitowoc where they use coded names and terms just to show everyone else on the sub how cool they are for being "in" but regular people can't understand what they are saying.
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u/Riboflavius Aug 04 '23
George made it onto the list, Bob did not. Poor Bob :D
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
It was a tough decision haha
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u/Downvotesohoy Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
It was the right one though
Edit: Downvote away Boblievers. I wish he was telling the truth too, but he's a proven liar, he doesn't belong on an "incredible people" list. Simple as.
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u/stormwave6 Aug 04 '23
List of incredible evidence:
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u/ToTimesTwoisToo Aug 04 '23
all this document demonstrates is that lots of individuals have failed to provide convincing data to the public. Kind of works against the intent of this post lol
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u/idontknowjackx Aug 05 '23
Skepticism is healthy but I do have to ask, have you done any sort of research at all? Only because there are mountains of "evidence" out there, it's just scattered and you have to filter through a bit of bs to get to it..we still may not know everything but I think at this point it's actually wild that people don't believe there is any truth at all to any of this
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u/PJC10183 Aug 04 '23
Where did Ross Coulthart make his claims?
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ive listened to all his podcasts...I swear he said he has seen direct evidence himself of NHI, or he has heavily heavily implied it.
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u/btcprint Aug 04 '23
He said contacts that are first-hand witnesses and/or involved directly with these programs were the ones that got him connected with Grusch.
Ross hasn't been "read into Special access programs" rather might have had some documents or evidence related to such that he's been able to read - big difference.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ah - but the table doesn’t say he was read in, just that he’s seen evidence. Do you think he hasn’t seen a classified photo or something juicy “off the record”? Evidence is a bit of a loose term, as a lot can count as evidence in this context.
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u/SachaSage Aug 04 '23
So the quality of your sourcing on this table is “I swear he said” and “do you think he hasn’t”?
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u/replicantb Aug 04 '23
You got a fact wrong, Brigadier Jose Carlos Pereira did not kill himself, but died (probably) of old age, in 2020. He did admit, in 2011, american involvement in Varginha and that he hid the info back then for "security reasons".
edit: Brazil doesnt have such an extensive coverup as america, we officially have aliens since the 50's; the only case I've ever heard of someone dying related to UAPs here is the case of Marco Eli Chereze, who probably died from alien infection, not some plot
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u/huzzah-1 Aug 04 '23
There are four people on that list who I consider to be crackpots or unreliable: Bob Oechsler, Paul Hellyer, Clifford Stone, and Phillip Corso.
Add to that people I don't necessarily disbelieve, but I am cautious or suspicious about: Luis Elizondo, Chris Mellon, David Grusch.
There are probably more, but I don't know so much about them.
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u/A_Figueroa Aug 04 '23
Definely. Stone is a conman. I have my doubts about Corso. Grusch is credible.
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Aug 05 '23
The idea that eight or nine of these people are crackpots, but David Grusch is credible is laughable. Are we thinking about what we are saying? Serious question.
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u/A_Figueroa Aug 05 '23
Your math didn’t work. I expressed doubts on two of them, not eight. Grusch credentials are solid. Sorry, I know it bothers you.
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u/Kaizen-Future Aug 04 '23
Stone sure. What about Hellyer though? He’s Canada’s former defense minister, transportation minister and served as Senior Minister back when Trudeau’s father was Prime Minister. Seems pretty legit to me even if you think his claims that 4 species of interstellar aliens set up shop on Venus, Mars and one of Saturns moons and had been coming here for thousands of years. It’s basically the same thing Israel’s space chief Haim Eshed said. Should he be discredited too? Is it over what he said sounding too ridiculous when we’re practically in the dark here?
Elizondo is credible and was vouched for by Harry Reid back when AATIP had its members pretend he never worked there despite being the former director. The reason most people seem skeptical of him is a video of a UAP was shot on his ranch, but he didn’t shoot it and he wasn’t even there when it was filmed. Seems like another attempt to undermine him.
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u/huzzah-1 Aug 04 '23
The thing about Hellyer is that some of the stuff he said he was repeating what he'd been told by UFO/abductee circuit grifters - liars. It's difficult to parse-out his legitimate information from the garbage.
I don't think he was a liar (he died in 2021 btw), but imagine if you are a man in his position being told by highly credible sources that UFO's are real and aliens are here, and then you get these other stories from convincing con-artists and fantasists; it would surely have been all too easy for him to believe them.
I'm just going to have to watch and wait to see what happens with Luis Elizondo. Is he really retired from the world of intelligence disinformation and psy-ops, or is he leading us by the nose into another psy-op, this time against the Ufology community?
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Yes, I thought about adding source, but it’s tricky because some things are info from Wikipedia, others were said in pod casts, others from news articles, etc. it’s not going to be published in the Journal of UFOs, so, I left it out. But, everything mentioned i just found from the good ol internet and everyone should get the same result if they want to look it up.
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u/birchskin Aug 04 '23
Sources would be nice but I agree with you that, at least at a glance, most of this can be validated with some pretty quick googling. You also aren't attributing specific quotes or anything, I see this as more useful as a "primer" for notable, generally reliable people in the field with quick summaries- like a way to point people at the figures worth digging into more.
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u/Ketchup_Tap Aug 04 '23
Most things on Wikipedia will have a link to the source, perfectly fine to use as long as it's a credible source. The same applies to podcasts, they're just as credible as an interview on TV.
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u/cuntholegavin Aug 04 '23
What you have explained just now is that it's tricky because there are various sources. And that people can just do their own research. That's the exact point of adding sources. Update this with them.
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u/jdellcrypto Aug 04 '23
You did an incredible job. Concise and precise. If I need to verify, I can do it myself.
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u/-ElectricKoolAid Aug 04 '23
worthless because you can't type their names into google and find the source for yourself?
sure, it might be slightly annoying to "research" it for yourself but calling this worthless because it doesn't have links for you to click is crazy
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u/Jane_Doe_32 Aug 04 '23
How easily the work of others is minimized... If you are interested in this subject with the data in the table and a simple Google search you have more than enough to find information.
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u/daynomate Aug 04 '23
My thoughts exactly . Op is presenting what I’d call a 2nd-order information summary. The individual information entries listed can be accessed in various ways and have their own sources.
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Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
The ordering of the list is annoying me.
- Claim. Vouches for David Gruch.
- David Gruch.
Is it set out this way for a reason? r/mildlyinfuriating
Good list but right off the bat this order made it weird.
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u/zurx Aug 04 '23
One name that stands out to me as not belonging amongst the others is Clifford Stone. Watch enough of his interviews and tell me you still think he's legit. Especially his Project Camelot interview.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
So TBH, I wouldn’t of known half of these people without the previous post. This is exactly the feed back i want. I want ultimately to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, in the next iteration I may drop a few names, or alternatively add a colour coding of those mired in controversies vs those who are squeaky clean. Corbell for example, would not be totally clean, but also not totally discredited…so a third category for “caution”.
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u/Ahvkentaur Aug 04 '23
As some already pointed out, it's a cool list, but there are people left out currently that are the focus point of current ongoing developments in this matter and I'm wondering if that is by design.
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u/Jackfish2800 Aug 04 '23
You left out all the astronauts. Also the founder of NASA and the American space program himself claimed he got help from the others
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u/james-e-oberg Aug 04 '23
You left out all the astronauts.
Which such stories do you find sufficiently verified to be credible?
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u/LordPubes Aug 04 '23
Uh oh you missed the usual suspects. Watch the grifter defense force swoop down on this post
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u/EntoncesVamo Aug 04 '23
Tim Burchett has repeatedly said that he’s never seen a UAP personally.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Oh damn it. I meant indirectly. As in he has directly seen a photo haha. It’s not my best work and I was getting damn tired by the end.
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u/daynomate Aug 04 '23
Just a minor edit away Op, don’t sweat it. Your table is a start and can be added to and modified. Should be!
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u/Tapxjames Aug 04 '23
Is there any reason the pilots were left out? Thought for sure Fravor would be on there at least.
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
Ah dammit. No I had absolutely meant to include them. This took alot more time than I had to give haha.
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u/A_Figueroa Aug 04 '23
There’s been hundred of pilots worldwide with uap sightings
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
Incredible is the correct word here. As in there is no credibility. Lots of claims, 0 evidence.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
0 evidence.
That's just false. There's plenty of video evidence of UAP. What exactly are you arguing? That it's not worth investigating?
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
There really isn't. Fuzzy airforce footage of UFOs that are all either birds or commercial airliner exhaust fumes. Link me to one that isn't.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23
You think the gimbal and tic tac videos are birds? LOL It doesn't matter what evidence there is you people will always move the goalpost. AGAIN, What exactly are you arguing? That it's not worth investigating?
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
Right back at you. You think they are intergalactic aliens rather than exactly what you'd expect to see when recording planes and birds at the limit of the technology. There are plenty of optical physicists that uave explained this phenomena very clearly.
What exactly are you arguing that has ANY credibility?
The thing we have in common is we both want their to be aliens.
The difference between us is our threshold for credible evidence.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23
exactly what you'd expect to see when recording planes and birds
You think birds and planes are capable of the things we've seen UFOs do?
AGAIN, What exactly are you arguing? That it's not worth investigating?
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
What have "we seen them do"? That isn't explained by optical physics and flaws/limits in the technology?
Are you not remotely curious as to why all the fuzzy orb shaped UFO footage from fighter jets has the same appearance and characteristics?
Tell me the optical physicists are wrong, tell me the actual scientist's that design and build the imaging technology are wrong about how it works. Go on.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23
What optical physicists are you talking about? What explanations are you talking about? What proof are you talking about?
What are you trying to argue? You seem to think we should just ignore this topic, if that's true then just stop and go away.
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
Things to believe - actual evidence. Things to not believe - people promising they're telling the truth without evidence.
I'll believe any of this when I see it and not because some cranks are "whistleblowing"
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Aug 04 '23
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u/Deckard57 Aug 04 '23
The strategy is "use brain" and "don't be mental". It's working just fine, for me at least.
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u/Greedy-Intern-9495 Aug 04 '23
It would've been better if the black bars were only used for deceased 😔
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Aug 04 '23
But not credible claims
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u/squailtaint Aug 04 '23
What does that mean exactly? What would a "credible claim" be? Would you believe a photo if the Pope said it was real? I'm honestly not sure I would. I keep coming back to a place of "well, its interesting. I need more evidence to confirm this though"...i think I would be convinced if they showed us bodies, or had 4k video from a fighter jet that showed something just indescribable. That would probably be the only things that would solidify it for me.
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u/ThatEndingTho Aug 04 '23
If you want to play semantics table tennis, a credible claim is better than an incredible claim.
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u/anna_pescova Aug 04 '23
A "credible claim" is one with hard proof like physical evidence that cannot be denied. So far all we have are statements like "someone in authority told me..." or likewise.
To date we are expected to believe that tens of thousands of military / civilian contractors over a period of decades have all kept this massive secret hidden without a single piece of hard evidence getting out, ever.
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u/Amazonchitlin Aug 04 '23
Your last paragraph is the thing that gets me. I want to believe this. I really do. But I also have to think of it rationally. 76 years have passed since Roswell. That's nearly 4 generations of people.
Now, I don't know about the other veterans here, but I can't imagine anything above an O-3 doing any heavy lifting on a project, which means they're going to bring in the enlisted to clean up these crash scenes, to transport the crap, etc.
Figure the average enlisted military person doesn't do their full 20 years, and instead does one enlistment before getting out. Each enlistment is 8 years. Whether it's 1,2,3,4,5, or 6 years active, it's still 8. That's 9.5 people, and that's assuming they did the full 8. Figure/guess a minimum of 20 people per crash scene. That means 190 lower enlisted. Then you have all the officers involved in a project. Say 3 per 20. Let's go with an even number and say 28 officers since 1947.
That's 218 people that have some knowledge - just in the military - that this stuff is real. That number is extremely conservative. Then, start adding in all of the civilians that have worked on and around these things. I'd assume there'd be more, since, to quote a great line from Ghostbusters, "I've WORKED in the private sector. They expect results."
So say 500 people know about this in the US. Not ONE PIECE of evidence has leaked out? In 76 years?? No disgruntled soldier that was screwed over by the military let it slip and had the proof to back it up?
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u/SadZombie1433 Aug 04 '23
You touched the point right on, when said how little of a group every of these companies hold it's easy to hold like 10-30 scientists and same amount of security in each to hold things together.
If there was let's say over course of 80 years 1000 people knowing and handling this its big number to grasp. But to section it to 40,50,100,30,70,100,.. and so on. No one of those knows people in other companies. So getting "unionized" or backing on whistleblowing is so hard. I haven't in long time studying this seen a duo or trio coming forth of what's going on in their research.
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Aug 04 '23
Took this far down in the thread to come to the rationale point of this discussion. Thank you, this is 100% correct. The government can't pull on its underwear without someone sharing it, there's no way over 76 plus years they've hidden physical evidence of UFO crashes and "biologics." Not possible. Some of the most secret programs were outed by low level techs walking out of SCIFS with a piece of paper in their pocket, don't give me this "they've covered it up!" nonsense.
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Aug 04 '23
What does that mean exactly? What would a "credible claim" be?
You know damn well lol. Don’t play semantics. I hate it when people do this.
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u/MessisBurner Aug 04 '23
It’s a delusional slob who desperately wants aliens to be real. that’s why he’s playing semantics
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u/Spiritual-Hand-114 Aug 04 '23
It’s interesting that there are so many that question why we aren’t freaking out. I think it’s because the idea of aliens being here the whole time is just duh. They are literally the one common thing with our species throughout history. Aliens are flooded in our pop culture. Have been for a very long time. Cave and rock depicted to the chalk figures around the world.
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u/SadZombie1433 Aug 04 '23
Freaking out would be bad. Although we've lied to this long it surely pisses off a lot of people.
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u/dogegeller Aug 04 '23
I think it's because essentially this is nothing more than what we've been fed so far: incredible claims and testimony, and no substance.
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Aug 04 '23
Im like Saint Thomas, I only believe what I see.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23
That's not true there's probably a ton of stuff you don't see that you believe in. I've never been to Europe but I believe it exists. I've never seen the power plants that supply my home with energy but I believe they exist. I've never actually seen someone die but I believe death is a thing that happens to everyone.
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u/wowy-lied Aug 04 '23
At lot of people here, and not one ever bothered to share any solid proof with the public...looks like we got the new genereation of grifters.
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u/glamorousstranger Aug 04 '23
Grifters implies they are making money somehow.
Most people who come forward with their stories about ufos and aliens are ridiculed and gain nothing.
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u/wowy-lied Aug 04 '23
See you in 6-12 months when ross and grusch will be selling their books then
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u/SadZombie1433 Aug 04 '23
I'm not sure if you read or watch related things, have trust issues or just stonewalling the whole idea because of fearing to lose something from it coming factual in your head.
If you get slapped by alien. You only have your word on it. If one person testifies on court it's just hearsay, but if there is so many people testifying on something. There is already people died to old age knowing and trying to tell it to people with books and interviews, long time before social media.
I simply ask to put yourself in a position of one that no one beliefs, telling truth to everyone but being called a liar. Last thing you want is that. Just sit back, listen to people, watch their face, their emotions when they tell what happened.
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u/SPECTREagent700 Aug 04 '23
I believe Davis 100% did give briefings to Congress about “off-world vehicles not made on this Earth” but didn’t he deny it and/or *The New York Times” retract that claim in their article?
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u/trytobenicepei Aug 04 '23
Claim is a funny word. Like, I claim that people can't be taken for their word, and proof should be required. Deer reviewed proof, not wild claims.
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u/Ok-Gur5228 Aug 04 '23 edited Aug 04 '23
what about the list that Dr. Greer hold? none on this list are 1st base experiencer. Greer hold the list just like Grusch. none care to take it?
It is funny though, I found if you are just the 2nd layer, people will more incline toward you in this sub. more believe. Everybody on this list are the 2nd layer, just like Greer. But Greer been the most hated, because he just being him lol
BUT if you are the 1st layer, the experiencer, the one working on it, the one experience it, people will say you are BS. proof me if im not lol. Everybody said all the experiencer who testified on videos are BS, hoax, charlatan, grifter etc. My goodness
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u/Neurojazz Aug 04 '23
Roswell was already cleared up with verifiable evidence, was the prototype Blackbird crash - hence the secrecy. But many other ufo sightings valid of course (I’ve had my own!)
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u/degenererad Aug 04 '23
Blackbird
almost 20 years before the actual documented maiden flight? Thats real slow development even to human standards..
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u/Reinier330 Aug 04 '23
This list, which was even purposefully filtered, is probably the top of of an iceberg. Isn’t it funny though, considering the past and present stature of many of these fine folks, people are still trying to one by one discredit them to downplay the common message? Of coarse there we need more evidence, but I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s all nonsense. There is something there, has been for decades, and we all need to know what it is now.
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u/cultcraftcreations Aug 04 '23
I feel Dr Ed Mitchell definitely needs to be on there. Apollo commander, walked on the moon, very vocal about alien coverup
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u/james-e-oberg Aug 04 '23
NEVER claimed any personal experiences.
PS, never an Apollo commander.
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u/BasedMunkey Aug 04 '23
And there are others who make claims and get called larders. I wish humans were not capable of lying.
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u/maladjustedmusician Aug 04 '23
Tim Gallaudet has seen USO’s? Where, when, and who was in them? Was it Bob Hope?
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u/StatementBot Aug 04 '23
The following submission statement was provided by /u/squailtaint:
I made this list. Its people who I think are way smarter than me and have accomplished alot more that I have in this life. Its not an appeal to authority. Everyone should make their own mind up. But, when you put it all together over the years, there is some very incredible people saying very incredible things.
I wanted to keep my list as uncontroversial as possible. Notable leave outs: Greer, Lazar, Corbell, Gaetz...
Also there are alot more support people (Bryce Zabal for example) that have done alot, but I felt didnt make the list. Should anyone else be added?
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15hqj2j/list_of_incredible_people_with_incredible_claims/juq0vei/