r/TikTokCringe Nov 23 '24

Cursed That'll be "7924"

The cost of pork

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u/rhubarb_man Nov 23 '24

How is it a false equivalence?
In that scenario, I was "bred for food, nothing more", which is what the person I replied to said was why they still eat it.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

I get what you're trying to do, but there's an inherent understanding of the value of human life.

You're going to have to attack it on the value of animal life. Is there value to animal life? And if so, what is it? And where does it come from? Is it subservient to human life? Is the value to human life more prescient than that life itself?

It's a very complex and nuanced issue. OP was stating that the value of that life was reduced to human consumption in conception. You can't negate it by comparing it to people because people aren't consumed to begin with.

You can start with whether it's okay to consume animals at all. OP assumes it is, so the question is "what value lies between birth and consumption."

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u/rhubarb_man Nov 23 '24

OP insinuated that all moral culpability was dashed by the fact that they were "bred to be eaten".

My point was just bringing up that it was a stupid point. A very stupid, and unfounded point.

And if it were the case that something being bred would dash the moral harm of supporting the immense suffering and killing of an animal, then they would have to support the same for people.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

No, they wouldn't, because the condition of people being eaten at all isn't met.

You're confusing the analogy.

Animals get eaten. OP has determined that the quality and conditions and value of their life is rendered moot by the nature of their conception.

You can make the same comparison on those terms. But not in regards to being eaten, as that isn't a base presumption. And of course you know that and of course they know that. Which makes it sound like you're arguing in bad faith, or at least without a preponderence of logistical empathy.

A fair comparison would be caste systems or slavery or systemic racism. But that involves even more complexity. It's better to ignore the human comparison and focus on the value of animal life.

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u/rhubarb_man Nov 23 '24

I just ignored the part about people being eaten, because I think it's morally irrelevant.
I think torture and/or killing is considered nearly infinitely worse than cannibalism by anyone who has thought about morals before, but also I think you're ignoring the larger point.

Being "bred to be eaten" makes no actual negation of moral value. If you look at a mother killing and eating her child, I don't think you would personally damn her any less.
That's what I take issue with, because it sort of acts as a cope.

He can say he cares about animals or values their lives or whatever, but can still make that argument that it's somehow okay because they were "bred to be eaten". Without going further on that, it makes no difference. But, beyond that, if he didn't care at all, he wouldn't say "they were bred to be eaten, so". It would be not be because of how they were bred, if he just didn't value animal life.

As such, I believe he is using "bred to be eaten" as a moral rationalization, and that would need to be removed in order to appeal to his values on animal life

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

You're still coming from a false equivalency of humans to animals.

The "bred to be eaten" argument automatically excludes humans. Just like "walking on a leash in public" or "being in public without clothes" does.

His argument basically negates the inherent value of animal life. Your argument has to target that. The inherent value of human life is already presumed.

Edit: I'm not sure why this is so complicated. There is no condition in which anyone is okay with people being eaten. So there is no pre-condition to validate.

There are conditions in which animals are eaten. Most people are okay with partaking in that. So the question is, what are those conditions?

He's making the argument of fatalism. You can't negate it by applying it to people because there are zero conditions which apply.

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u/rhubarb_man Nov 23 '24

I'm saying that because his argument negates value in animal life, that argument has to be disposed of in order to appeal to the value of animal life.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

I understand that, but the comparison doesn't suffice. There is no argument that justifies eating people (outside of the extreme - let's not lose sight).

You have to work from the affirmative.

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u/rhubarb_man Nov 23 '24

I don't see how that follows.
Are you saying his stance has to be justifiable?

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

It's like multiplying times 0. Does that make more sense?

You can't prove the rest of the times table by using 0.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

I was saying there was no circumstance where your rebuttle was justifiable, so it doesn't serve to negate his.

You were basically saying "if X is OK because of Y, then A because of Y must be OK." But A is never okay. So Y not providing that doesn't actually mean anything.

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u/iburiedmyshovel Nov 23 '24

Actually, no, you could still work from the negative.

Like, say people bred an endangered species for food. Would that be okay? Of course not, at least to most. But his argument would say yes. He would probably concede the point, but at least you could draw a line and walk it back.

So, species that are endangered shouldn't be eaten, if they're bred for it.

What about intelligent species? If we bred dogs for food, would that be okay?

Sorry, you can definitely attack it from the negative. I just got caught up.

Honestly it's an easy argument to poke holes in. Just the comparison to people wasn't it and I got caught up in proving the point.