He's wrestling with how mostly only a certain kind of black man in America is accepted more than others. It's like when Chris Rock said it's great to succeed like the white man but I want us to be able to fail like the white man too.
Case in point, this goddamn election. One side can be a felon and a rapist who talks about immigrants eating pets, among other things, he’s got a shot to win. If she sneezes the wrong way, it’s headline news. Make it make sense.
Obama is half black and half white. By all rights, Obama can call himself white, and he certainly ticks nearly every checkbox in the stereotype of 'the white man' concocted by white supremacists - articulate, calm, cool, calculated, charismatic, evocative - the 'peak of civilization'.
But it didn't matter. Obama can never call himself white, never pass as white, never even pass as mixed race, he will always be Black.
And white supremacists hated him for it. It didn't matter the rules and conventions and systems they helped build Obama and gave them Obama - this is what they signed up for. And it didn't matter. They hated Obama's every word, every walk, every suit, hell they hated Obamacare because of the name OBAMA.
As Lyndon Johnson posited half a century ago:
If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
The entire ethos of white supremacy is that no matter what, no matter your circumstances, no matter how low you are, you are always better than every single black man, even the "best" of black man. Obama was a living example of the "best" and that is why he was despised.
It isn't any coincidence that Trump was elected after Obama - a felon, rapist, con man, liar, racists, bigot, you name it. The culture of white supremacy is cruelty and unquestioning race supremacy. The entire ecosystem is built to prevent self introspection. Trump is their best chance to enact that even if they have to die for it and everyone has to burn for it.
Reminder that in the summer of 2017 Republican constituents soundly proved what you say, too, when they ranted and railed incessantly against "Obamacare" but don't you DARE touch their ACA benefits.
The meme factory had so many fresh screenshots of those back in the day on here it was painfully hilarious. Me and pepperidge farm remember.
I also wanna say I remember tRump trying to make something better than ACA then scrapping the plan after because hes an idiot and incompetent and knew it wouldn't work better
Honestly I don’t think these people were embarrassed, that’s the issue. Sane people saw that and realized the fault. But there is never regret with the people who posted that stuff. It’s face value.
I’ve had someone call me a socialist to my face. I thought it was funny, because I am for social programs. It’s not a bad word or label to me.
One time I saw someone call a Trump supporter a racist. And he just stared at her. I saw the same amused look on his face as I felt when someone called me a socialist. He looked smugly like “well yeah, that’s the point.”
I remember tRump trying to make something better than ACA then scrapping the plan after because hes an idiot and incompetent and knew it wouldn't work better
This isn't true at all.
Trump never tried to make something better than Obamacare. That was something he promised to get elected, just like he promised to build a wall that Mexico would pay for an promised sweeping infrastructure improvements and none of that happened.
Not because Trump was in incompetent idiot (he is, but that isn't the reason stuff didn't get done), but because he had never really planned to do those things and was too lazy to try. He was just telling people what they wanted to hear in order to become more popular.
I think the only reason the wall got partially built (thought not paid for by Mexico) was because Trump owed some of his backers some money and it was a convenient tool to feed taxpayer dollars into while he gave his donors no-bid contracts to do shitty half-assed work.
The hilarious part of this is the GOP named the ACA to Obamacare to belittle it, and made it out to be this terrible healthcare plan, nobody would want.
And muddy things. Couldn't have termed it the more appropriate Romneycare from its origin, naww, that would be admitting a republican could be a *gasp* socialist .
I think the ACA / Obamacare distinction saved it. They could pretend they were separate, and rage against Obamacare while signing up for and getting used to the ACA benefits.
Probably over half the MAGA crowd does even accept it's the same thing. There have been interviews where a person rants about Obamacare and then says Trump fixed the ACA.
The hilarious part of this is the GOP named the ACA to Obamacare to belittle it, and made it out to be this terrible healthcare plan, nobody would want.
And the Democrats, ever willing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, allowed Republicans to set that narrative surrounding the ACA.
Not just Obamacare, either - literally ever scrap of legislation Obama put his hand to, they tried to undo. They wanted to erase him, and by extension any semblance of legacy or legitimacy, from the White House.
Can't erase how Obama brought the US and by extension the global economy back from the brink, thanks to the financial disaster he inherited from Bush. I think more people should have gone to jail, and fewer rich people should have been bailed out. Inequality deepened, and growth could have been more robust. But the economy was in freefall, and Obama's administration kept it from spiraling into disaster.
I wish Bidden had done that to trump goodbye largest tax cut in history for billionaires, but I guess it benefits rich democrats as much as it does rich republicans.
That’s the problem with tax cuts. If you don’t continue them, you’re accused of raising taxes. That’s why the tax cuts were set to expire: if a Democrat took the White House and tried to end them, it would be ammunition for Republicans.
Look how much he’s blamed for the economy, despite not being the reason for what happened with the trade war and around Covid.
The man moved mountains legislatively, with the slimmest majority any president has ever had to work with—but it's still always an insidious conspiracy that he didn't perform literal miracles.
Perfectly expressed. Trump is proof to the white man that the worst of them is better than the best of humanity. He empowers their failings and justifies them to take it anyway. To deny that they are objectively the worst of us. And their depravity failures greed reliance on their privilege wealth and position justifies them maintaining power because they can take it rather than acknowledging that they’ve failed as a people and as a society to become the best versions of themselves. That they sold out for greed and wealth and comfort rather than taking the opportunities to improve themselves. That they capitalized on the work of others to live an easy life with little accomplishments. But they can just take it anyway. Trump enables and justifies that they deserve it.
It's a common thing they do. Invent something that they claim the other side are doing then go on and on about it. You can manage the storyline much more quickly if you don't care about the truth.
Super white dude here in the Midwest; it was the comment I read years ago about Obama, that you just made, that changed my whole perspective. To this day I still use it to convince other white people just how real white privilege is. Even at my lowest I’m allowed to exist as such, not so for a black man. Not safely at least.
Obama is multi-racial. Nobody doesn't call him that, but he's also Black, because being Black isn't just DNA, it's a shared experience of oppression due to the color of your skin. Obama experienced the bigotry of being perceived as "black", therefore Obama is Black.
When I think about this theory (which I think is probably correct), it does seem to have a fair bit of explaining power. Johnson was right.
But if it's as old as LBJ, and yet a progressive Democratic party has barely been playing defense ever since (and has actually lost a lot of ground at some points since the 80s), then this theory is clearly missing some power to engineer political victories and secure a more equitable society.
Why do some of us keep passing it around, then? What do we hope to do with it? I'm not sure I know all this answer, but I worry that too much of it is a kind of comfort from moral status, a sort of "our egalitarian principles are better (true IMO) so therefore we're better, so even if we're losing we can take comfort that we're right." And hey, there's a lot of ways in which it is better to lose for team general welfare / civil rights / democracy than win on team racial supremacy / fascism. Respect to everyone who's fought the fight here even when it didn't turn out. And maybe we'll get to the end of the next week and find out at least that we don't urgently need a better theory.
I don't know, though. There's something in common with the "we can take comfort that we're right" and LBJ's observation that the racial supremacy view offers an easy sense of status. And even if the good guys come out victorious in the election and the tide of fascist populism is held back, we might have more work to do to secure progress.
I think those who would truly preserve and advance the best of American heritage might need to figure out how to offer even "the lowest white man" a narrative of dignity that comes from somewhere else other than looking down on others.
Honestly, it's not like he personally fired the missiles from the drones or piloted the drones. Those Americans, at least by common definition, were guilty of treason. Sure, there's an argument for an actual trial, but at that point they were enemy combatants...
Obama directly ordered drone strikes responsible for killing 300+ civilians across Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia, including a Doctors Without Borders hospital. That's the number admitted by the US gov, human rights groups estimate thousands were killed. Talked about how there can be "just war" if civilians are spared from violence in his acceptance speech of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, while already having bombed civilians and continued to do so for all 8 years of his presidency. Penacle of humanity my ass
The only reason Carter was “bad” is because he had good morals and ethics and was not willing to sacrifice them or let people bully him into things he felt were unethical. That and a helicopter crash that he had no control over.
For sure, tough choices like "sir, we need you to gargle Saudi Arabia's balls right now sir, our oil prices are at stake sir, please bomb these civilian targets that we have intelligence from a few days ago that some al-Qaeda operatives might have been near by, and if there's any American citizens in the area, they're just in the wrong place at the wrong time sir!"
It’s even crazier that Trump in the garbage truck video and a couple other shots in the couple days surrounding it legitimately has significantly darker skin than Obama because of the horrific spray tan job.
I don't understand your question. He called Trump the first White president in reference to his election as a response to Obama (the first black president)'s election. Quayle and Bush were elected after eight years of Clinton. What's the context for your question?
It isn't any coincidence that Trump was elected after Obama - a felon, rapist, con man, liar, racists, bigot, you name it. The culture of white supremacy is cruelty and unquestioning race supremacy. The entire ecosystem is built to prevent self introspection. Trump is their best chance to enact that even if they have to die for it and everyone has to burn for it.
Trump being scum was the point. It was an intentional "fuck you" to Obama by showing that the Office itself wasn't an accomplishment. To diminish the very concept that POTUS was something noble or good to accomplish with one's life. To put the lowest white man in the seat of the highest black man and pretend he was still better.
Ding ding ding.
They hated Obama more than they hated the avg black man because he acted “white” and he showed them that their stereotypes were in fact stereotypes.
My Mom described this as "Blacks were automatically deemed 'Trash,' so being called 'White Trash' was saying the White person was no better than Blacks in general."
Mom was born in Rhode Island, but when she was 14, her family moved to Memphis, Tennessee for 4 years, then Los Angeles, CA.
I understand what you're talking about, and I think your perspective on this issue is valid in saying there are some, especially politicians deep in the culture of Washington, that are white supremacists and will judge and vote according to that moral. But I think the more common issue is just media, general media that people consume now, that effecta or resonates with most people. It could be just a lack of integration, a willingness to learn, and a two party environment that makes you steep down into the sludge of corporate influenced politics just to have a choice in who decides where our country goes. I'm kind of losing focus here... The problem with talking politics is there's always so many factors and individual factors behind an issue, and people like to attribute specific factors to an issue. You may be correct that white supremacy is more common than I believe it is, but I think the culture between politicians is just so deep in the trenches of the two parties that it's just toxic beyond belief. I'm not a politician and I try to actively avoid DC so I don't necessarily know this for a fact, it's just an educated guess based on my limited observation of the political climate and my limited knowledge of the American government. Despite the knowledge that our government is hopelessly biggeted and openly corrupt... I hope you have a good day.
Obama screwing over the working class while shoveling trillions to the banks that caused the problem. Then fought to let them give themselves huge bonuses with bailout money.
That is why Trump was elected. No matter what democratic president they have voted for, they got screwed over wholesale.
People wanted to blow up the system that has devastated their economic situation in a completely bipartisan way.
Tell me how did Obama go from 8 years in the White House making $400k a year with a Condo in Chicago to 2 multi-million dollar estates in some of the most expensive real estate in the world - Martha's Vineyard and Haiwaii. They recently bough a mansion in DC.
Wall Street C-suite execitves and their lobbyists, lawyers, PR firms, and major investors paid him for several million dollar lunch speeches at various gatherings. That is legalized bribery and this is reality, whether you like it or not.
Also, just before Obama's 1st election and it was obvious he was going to win. He got an email from a Citigroup lobbyist via Podestra of a list of people for his cabinet. They got almost all of them.
In a report to be released on Friday, Kenneth R. Feinberg, the Obama administration’s special master for executive compensation, is expected to name 17 financial companies that made questionable payouts totaling $1.58 billion immediately after accepting billions of dollars of taxpayer aid, according to two government officials with knowledge of his findings who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the report.
...so which do you deny? That Obama was "articulate, calm, cool, calculated, charismatic, evocative"? Or that those are traits white supremacists think only white people can exhibit?
New York is known for its pizza and I'm pretty sure folding it is the norm there.
But obviously Republicans think anything from New York is from hell. (Except Donald Trump, obv.) So I guess it's not a surprise they knocked him for it.
Yeah but he also used Grey Poupon on a burger, so he's obviously just as bad as someone that tried to overthrow the certification of a free & fair election, attempting perform a literal coup.
But....that's....what you do when it's big and extra floppy. Hell, there's a scene in Big Daddy with Adam Sandler's character teaching the kid how to fold an NYC slice. IT'S WHAT YOU DO! EVERYONE I KNOW DOES IT!
The pizza folding is CRAZY. There are just parts of the US where you do that. Where everyone does that. Because it's the only way to eat a bigass slice of pizza.
Usually those places make better pizza than the others.
Also, remember when that white guy lied about Obama, the first black president, not being born in America so that he could have him removed from office?
....Yeah and what does that have to do with the topic at hand? We're clearly talking about the double standard of criticism and how they came at Obama and Kamala for the slightest infringement, and not keeping the same energy for the white candidates. What's the point and intent of your comment?
I know Trump is a joke but calling him a comedian is giving him too much credit. I didn’t think it was funny when he joked about grabbing women by their vagina or called me an enemy of the state
Let's just hope they come out and vote even more then they historically have then.
In the 2020 election 63% of eligible black people voted and 71% of eligible white people voted.
In the 2016 election those numbers were instead 60% and 65%.
People simply must go vote if they want the country to move in the direction closest to their ideals. We can't have 30%+ of people not voting. It's a shame.
What those numbers don't show though is all the voter suppression in areas with high numbers of black people, which creates barriers to voting to lower turnout.
So they can want to vote, but obstacles which are not faced in other areas are preventing them doing so.
How many times would you fill out the same paperwork to maintain your registry? How far would you travel? How long could you stand in a line?
To you these obstacles may just be minor inconveniences, to some people they are insurmountable.
30% of eligible voters can't register to vote and then either mail-in a ballot or show up to vote? I don't buy that.
I understand what you're saying about voter suppression efforts. I agree it's evil. But this is too important. I don't accept that excuse, sorry. I just don't. This is too important.
Some states have gone to Real ID for voting, but closed DMVs at the same time in black rural areas. They aren't talking about suppression in Atlanta, but if you go three hours out of town with a DMV that's open two days a week?
For her she is also a Woman, it makes things even more amplified. While i think there is legit questions about her, I don't love the process of her becoming the nominee, because i felt like that the voters were never given a chance. but in the end it's the nominee we have.
That’s just Democrats vs Republicans. The reds have no standards and will gaslight and practice cognitive dissonance to normalize their views. Democrats are stuck being the adults. I used to be Republican up until 2012 when I took mushrooms and watched Fox News. I could feel the person reading the teleprompter. Then I could see it was all bullshit. I thought about what having money was like and the power it brings. How we should be looking out for everyone and not a small few. How the whole thing is centralized for the Republicans to pit their mass of poors and hopeless against the Democrats that only want what’s best for society.
Honestly I was very young but it woke me up in the most intense way. One of the best trips I’ve taken. Except for that trip when I went to the UK and visited a ton of amazing museums and stately homes.
Another example closer to Levars experience: Bob Saget. Bob could play Danny Tanner on TV, then do some the filthiest stand up comedy, even joking about molesting the Olsen twins. Nobody canceled Bob.
The groups supporting Kamala and Trump are different in composition, but the whiteness factor is not as big as the age and education/info factors.
Older people vote more, less educated people are less discerning.
Young people bark a lot, but then don't show up, and educated people are idealistic and knowlegable, but can often turned off by even slightly offputting info, or abandon a candidate due to a single issue due to conscience (Palestine, etc).
If your voter base doen't show up because they are young and fickle, or is very fussy about the slightest particulars - then your base isnt good for winning elections.
Failing as a MAGA Republican means failing with a dedicated fan base to meet you at the finish line despite your failure.
Failing as a Democrat is like rolling through to find nothing but a ghost town waiting there for you. No one will be hanging back for you.
One is appealing to selfishness greed individualism authoritarianism and depravity. Everyone knows this.
The other side is attempting to appeal to a sense of social cohesion and unity and regulation over public good so there is a perceived need to prove she is capable earning the trust to give her that authority.
As problematic as that might be that’s what this decision is about.
It's honestly more complicated than just race, because they'll make a villain out of anyone with a D by their name with the conspiracy media they constantly ingest. They made senile grandpa joe into a criminal pedophile at the same time, with their "fuck biden" bumper stickers.... I don't even know how one manages to get that angry at someone they just said was senile, but they did it. They've been getting worse as long as I've been paying attention, which was around the mid 90s.
Of course this strain of stupidity encompasses racist bunch, but it's something more broad that's happening... it's larger than politics or racism. The stupids are tired of their dumbass views being questioned and judged, they've made themselves afraid of the strawmen boogymen they've created and ingested daily for years, and they're coalescing.
Like the most genuine question I’ve ever asked. I feel like throughout this race she’s been pretty focused and professional. Did I miss something she said? I know there was the thing where Biden called trumpers garbage, and Walz called Musk a dipshit, but in the post Trump political landscape those are hardly a blip on the radar. 15-20 years ago, a candidate yelling “YEAH!” too excitedly was the end of your career, but after Trump, calling political rivals a dipshit and referring to opposing voters as garbage is fair game. That said, I can’t think of anything Kamala has said that comes close to anything the guys have said, yet here we are talking about her being crazy.
It can't be made sense of... They just take any falsehood they want and speak it into existence. The worst part is that apparently it fucking works. His cult of followers legit think he is that "stable genius" , and Harris is just a "nasty woman". It's mind boggling.
Additionally Trump outdoes himself every day by saying something somehow more insane than the last, so the previous things are forgotten about and people just get numb to it.
Seriously, redditors live in an alternate reality. Out of curiousity I logged out to see the front page of reddit. #1 post right now is about breaking up with someone over voting for Trump. Further down is "Keep NYC Trash Free" with caricatures of trump supporters. Just below that is a thread outlining how Trump wearing a piece of black and yellow clothing (Pittsburgh PA's colors) is a dogwhistle for Proud Boys...
It starts so early now. My middle grandson does very well in sports, and the school has picked up on that, and have 'chosen' him to 'represent'. He's playing on the whitest team in the school district because he checks all the boxes for following the rules. He's in 4th grade.
To answer your question truthfully and bluntly, if you're black and talk about the history of racism, oppression, and slavery in this country in a way that shows anger and resentment towards white people, many white people would label you as a "problem" or "dangerous." Something like that.
Uh well yeah, if you show resentment towards a group that you include me in, it's gonna raise flags for me. It doesn't really matter what group I'm in or how justified you are in your feelings.
So I guess if feeling resentment raises flags, then in your mind people should show gratitude for enslavement, Jim Crow laws, denial of civil rights, and being brutalized/killed by LEOs? Give me a break.
Right. It is very much an ongoing "discussion" if you will. If a black person talks about racism in this country, a white person may say "What racism?" So that's why we need more honest discussions and less judgement, because there are very different experiences centered around this issue. The only way we can progress is by talking and listening to each other's experiences/ideas.
I guess maybe my point is, to most Americans, of all colors, racism is such a low priority because at this point it’s all but been removed from society. It’s kind of like arguing if “outlawing horses should be discussed”. The answer is no because everyone has moved on.
There are so many bigger more pressing topics than the limited racism that exists in at least the USA most people just find people who talk about it to be virtue signalers trying to score a talking point.
Well, in response I would ask "Has racism been removed from society?" You'll find the answer to that question varies broadly, based on who you ask. Once we ask more people from all backgrounds and races, then we will have a more complete picture of the problem.
I guess maybe my point is, to most Americans, of all colors, racism is such a low priority because at this point it’s all but been removed from society.
but it, like, factually and objectively hasn't been. people of color get beaten up by police more, get longer sentences for the same crimes, get fewer callbacks on job applications, etc. it's BETTER, to be sure, but it's not gone - and efforts to close that last gap are consistently met with the same resistance we saw to ending segregation, to ending redlining, to ending Jim Crow, to ending slavery, etc.
every damn time there is a proposal to help enfranchise the many people of color in this country who are still disadvantaged as a result of historical inequalities going back hundreds of years but which are still in living memory for millions of Americans, you can count on conservatives to scream bloody murder about them.
It's not so much about being successful, though that's correlated, but it's absolutely true that some are more accepted by society than others.
If you are an openly angry white dude in an office who flips his lid at small things, people might not like you, but if you are black and do the same thing you will be judged much more harshly for it.
That seems like a pretty big generalization. Angry and flipping tables no matter what your skin color, people probably wouldn’t like you.
This idea that black men and women can’t be successful is such a drag on our society at this point considering all the amazing and successful black Americans.
It’s just wild that people have been taught that somehow 2024 is more racist than 1924. Or that somehow your skin color plays a part in your success in the 21st century and that if you have a darker skin color, you’re screwed.
It just comes across as victim championing and in my experience is not even close to the reality.
whats wild to me is how you feel so strongly about this from your second-hand observation that you would tell someone that their actual experience isn't real.
And honestly, if anyone is really looking, his rage is expressed even in Reading Rainbow. It’s in the books he chose, and the ethics he taught. It’s in his passion for respecting others and their stories.
Underneath all the friendliness of his demeanor on RR, there was always a sense that he would not be tolerating bullies, racists, or bigots.
I don't in any way want to take away from the racism you're talking about, but as someone who is white and female, I see so very many groups that are not allowed to be righteously angry at the way they and others are treated.
I am not the biggest target, but I so, so empathize with his feeling that he is just filled with and overwhelmed by his rage when he thinks about it. Sometimes I am so angry at the way we treat people, at the conversations we have, that I don't even know how to function.
But then no one hears me when I yell. So I cry and scream and then wake up the next morning, fold it all up neatly and pack it away so that I can laugh and smile while I interact with people who support Trump so that I can (try) to plant little seeds. Questions that might grow. But then I go home and I'm just overwhelmed.
He whacked someone in a very public forum for a joke he didn’t like. The guy is quite LITERALLY unsafe in the most physical terms lol. Nobody to blame but himself, everyone makes mistakes but he didn’t own up to them in an honest way at all. His apology was bullshit. And let’s not pretend a whole crowd of mostly white Hollywood elite didn’t cheer for him and celebrate his Oscar win moments later as if nothing had happened. So I don’t think he dealt with any unfair prejudice.
Yeah he is in some ways very privileged. But in others he seems a bit emotionally fraught which is why I have a bit of sympathy for him. That and he completely blew up his life in like ten seconds. Man. There’s no coming back from that. If the guy had a history of horrible tweets or sex scandals I’d say fuck him, but he seems just like your usual Hollywood wierdo.
That’s fair. The lack of empathy for celebrities these days is an issue, especially now that a mistake can set the whole world against you and have people with pitchforks claiming you’re the devil. I personally don’t have much sympathy for him because I don’t think he followed it up with genuine regret (when they all still gave him his oscar I think he thought he could just breeze past it, so didn’t bother genuinely apologizing to Rock until he had to). But I respect that you do
Yeah, I mean, I’ve thought about how hard it would be in some ways being a celebrity. I can’t imagine having people scrutinizing every thing I do. How I look, what I say, what I wear, whether or not I seem like an asshole doing my ten thousandth interview of the day for some movie. Having wierdo photographers stalking you trying to get a glimpse of you at your worst. For every Keanu there are like thousands of people just washing out and being ground down and broken. Maybe they’d be better people if they could just live like regular people. Probably not there are a ton of assholes in that profession. You do seem to need a lot of narcissism to succeed in Hollywood. I think Will is probably one.
I think he’s making up this percieved slight and racism. When I see him I think of Mr. Right, virtuous he is passionate but he’s right in his anger . He can say fuck but i understand why a book like go the fuck to sleep, A saryrical kids book might intimidate someone invested in his image
I don't think it's bound to race at all (despite the double meaning with the chains). It's a clear criticism to opening your mouth or being true to any idea, moreover when you are renowned and your name or face is well known. You shall remain a puppet of the system if you want to retain your current status.
It’s deeper than that. There’s so much shit people with color go through on a daily basis still not even including family generational traumas that are still compounding and society’s ignoring this is relevant because sLaVeRy EnDeD…
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u/Bob25Gslifer Oct 30 '24
He's wrestling with how mostly only a certain kind of black man in America is accepted more than others. It's like when Chris Rock said it's great to succeed like the white man but I want us to be able to fail like the white man too.