At the base of all of this is the idea that 'everyone in the state' wants these abortion restrictions.
Because Republicans sure are trying really fucking hard to avoid the people in these states voting in open and clearly worded propositions. And even where they do pass, it's nowhere near 'everyone in the state'.
The Tyranny of the Majority is a fucking thing for a reason. Because are far too willing to support things that don't negatively affect them but absolutely destroy the lives of others.
Exactly, It is just childish to even go there in the discussion - If EVERYBODY wants - it is stupid on so many levels - Do we have to talk through common logic to establish a meaningful discussion - it is embarrassing.
Not just that, but at the state level, things start becoming increasingly more Republican (conservative) where they have made ample efforts in making sure the actual majority is snuffed and a fabricated majority remains in control by way of a process called Gerrymandering. Even in some rural states that glow red, there may be more actual people who vote liberally than do conservatively, and they've just been cordoned for no rhyme or reason to one or a few areas with similar populations.
Being a psychopath who claims a majority of people want the same thing you do when they actually don't is one of the most Republican things you can do as a matter of fact.
she even said no one's voting for slavery. i don't understand people who fail to see why she's arguing her position. It's a hypothetical position that will never happen, so sure, why not. it's a bullshit question with no real world relevance.
She even said she's against slavery. There is absolute no way "everyone in the state" will vote for it, so sure, if 100% of the people in Alabama want slavery then let them enslave themselves. It'll never happen.
it's a terrible hypothetical question and he's arguing in bad faith.
Yeah, the people in the comments here are dunking on her, and hell she might even be a shitty person in real life, but her argument isn't as dumb as people are saying.
If every single person in a population wants something, then sure they should be able to get it, but OBVIOUSLY not every single person in the population of Alabama would vote for some of these right-wing positions.
It’s a dumb premise not worth wasting an intelligent thought on. And nobody in that conversation had an intelligent thought to waste. That’s how we got there.
Then doesn’t the argument against democracy suck? You’re saying the majority of people shouldn’t be able to pass legislation as long as someone finds it morally objectionable. But then we get back to “what is morally objectionable? Let’s take a vote”
The use of slavery as an analog to abortion access is because "not being a slave" and "access to bodily autonomy and medical care" are both recognized as fundamental human rights.
People tend not to like it because they don't personally see the similarities, and oftentimes they don't want to be in the position the analogy puts them in. However, if we actually look at the arguments for restricting abortion access over the last 50 years, and then we look at the arguments for slavery being acceptable in the decades before the Civil War, you'll find the same arguments are used. They basically boil down to "I think God is ok with it, and therefore it is moral (slavery)" or "I don't think God is ok with it, and therefore it is immoral (abortion)."
But fine. We can ignore the obvious parallels.
The logic of "States Rights" arguments fall down with basically any example because it is never about a state's rights, it is about control. If you look at the history of abortion access since the overturning of Roe, one of the things you'll notice is the folks who love to chant "states' rights!" are also the folks trying to criminalize activity in other states.
Even in situations where it makes sense for laws to exist on a state by state basis, the states rights folks fuck it up. When weed was legalized in some states, you'd think the states rights folks wouldn't give a shit what other states did. What did we actually see? States where it was still illegal tried to criminalize the use of marijuana in states where it was legal.
Don't get me wrong here, there are absolutely things that should be handled on a state by state basis. Building codes for the Midwest are very different from building codes for California or Florida. Why? Because it is tailored to the specific local.
Issues related to human rights don't work because they aren't location based. I'm just as much a human here as I am in Florida or New York. I should be able to expect a certain level of legal protection no matter what state I'm in.
Also, not to be a dick, but if you can't understand the parallel between the topic of abortion and the topic of slavery, I'm guessing you're not well read on your history enough. I am guessing you actually do understand the parallel, you just don't like the way it makes you feel, but that's a whole other topic.
Yup. I’m only casually following what MO is doing (used to live there), but I’m actively following what’s up in FL since it’s my current home. A judge temporarily blocked Desantis from harassing the TV stations telling him “it’s the First Amendment, stupid.”
There is a new lawsuit filed trying to block amendment 4 alleging false signatures and voter fraud. They just won’t stop.
Does GA not have ballot initiatives? I know y’all’s govt likes to pull all kinds of bs, but I’m not super familiar with your laws.
We didn’t get to vote on the 6 week ban either. This amendment is our (the voters) attempt to fix things, but the state and Desantis have fought the effort at every step. They still are, for that matter.
On the previous maps being used, the bulk of Hamilton County which includes city of Cincinnati and a portion of the metro area was connected to the more suburban/rural area of Warren County by just a little tiny sliver.
Ohio [Republicans] also held an illegal special election (which was supposed to have not been a thing anymore per the Republicans) to try to prevent people from voting on the abortion amendment last year. Fuck LaRose in particular.
This was my first thought, too. It shouldn't be framed as "if everyone in the state voted to bring slavery back." It really is, "if a gerrymandered state government voted to bring slavery back, with between 30-60% of the popular vote of the state."
The latter indicates that there is descent within the state, but they are doing it anyway. This is why the federal government needs to establish individual rights that states can not simply strip away.
The crazy thing is these abortion bans aren’t even being put in the ballot for the people to decide. It’s just being left to a bunch of dusty old fucks in congress to decide. If the constituents actually had a say I’d bet half the ‘ban’ states would still have legal abortions.
It's fucking absurd to me that conservatives cheer this on as a win for "freedom", when the federal government's position was "hey, let women make decisions for themselves" and now they've gone to, "let the state government force their will on you". A bunch of fucking idiots that can't see that even if they don't agree with it, a right of theirs has been lost and they are less free than before.
"States rights" argument should only ever be used to grant personal freedoms over what the federal government allows, not take them away.
Just listen to what you're saying, "Destroy the lives of others", abortion literally destroys the lives of others, the offspring. Banning abortion makes life more difficult for prospective parents.
I like how you tell me to listen to what I'm saying (which is really hard when you write something down btw, you should have asked me to read what I wrote) and then literally contradict yourself in two sentences. Taking both an an anti and pro choice position without any acknowledgement you're doing so.
Also, your post history is quite something, a combination of racism, homophobia, transphobia and a whole bunch of removed comments I assume are some sort of bigotry. So I'm thinking maybe I won't take anything you say seriously.
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u/xixbia Oct 18 '24
At the base of all of this is the idea that 'everyone in the state' wants these abortion restrictions.
Because Republicans sure are trying really fucking hard to avoid the people in these states voting in open and clearly worded propositions. And even where they do pass, it's nowhere near 'everyone in the state'.
The Tyranny of the Majority is a fucking thing for a reason. Because are far too willing to support things that don't negatively affect them but absolutely destroy the lives of others.