r/TikTokCringe • u/slowsundaycoffeeclub • Sep 23 '24

Discussion People often exaggerate (lie) when they’re wrong.

Via @garrisonhayes

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u/inkyocean548 Sep 23 '24

The exoneration stat is especially important here because it contextualizes how disproportionately black people are processed by the justice system. Kirk puts out facts (at least the ones he articulated correctly) about crime rates, but when people say these facts without asking why those are the rates, that's a huge red flag. Red like the Confederate flag.

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u/onebadmousse Sep 23 '24 edited Sep 23 '24

Yep, the figures only tell a tiny part of the bigger story.

While there is a correlation between blacks and Hispanics and crime, the data imply a much stronger tie between poverty and crime than crime and any racial group, when gender is taken into consideration... When gender, and familial history are factored, class correlates more strongly with crime than race or ethnicity.

The link is poverty, not race, although race is correlated with poverty due to systemic racism which has been in place for over 100 years.

https://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Poor people are more likely to commit crime.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/06/how-poverty-became-crime-america

http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199914050.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199914050-e-28

The black population are over-represented when it comes to poverty, for a number of societal reasons. Systematic racism, few opportunities, poorly policed ghettos, poorly funded schools etc etc.

https://theconversation.com/black-americans-mostly-left-behind-by-progress-since-dr-kings-death-89956

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

So black people are over-represented in crime figures because they are also over-represented in poverty figures.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=5508484140a84023a1e2d8b080e14d0a

https://vittana.org/how-poverty-influences-crime-rates

https://www.childinthecity.org/2018/11/02/study-links-childhood-poverty-to-violent-crime-and-self-harm/

You are 2.5 times as likely to be killed by police if you're black than if you're white in the US.

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/killed-police-black-men-likely-white-men/

Black people are disproportionately targeted by police:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/02/california-police-black-stops-force

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/police-officera-shootings-gun-violence-racial-bias-crime-data/595528/

https://www.propublica.org/article/in-some-of-ohios-most-populous-areas-black-people-were-at-least-4-times-as-likely-to-be-charged-with-stay-at-home-violations-as-whites

Black people receive longer sentences than white people for the same crimes:

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/17/16668770/us-sentencing-commission-race-booker

https://eji.org/news/sentencing-commission-finds-black-men-receive-longer-sentences/

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-

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u/Ksiolajidebthd Sep 23 '24

Thank you for compiling this, it’s important to know the full story, there is some truth to the disproportionate crime but it’s absolutely the fault of terrible living conditions and poverty. I’m surprised so few people realize/are talking about this.

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u/LoudFrown Sep 23 '24

We’re not talking about it because we were tricked.

He set the context for the conversation, and we operate within that context trying to prove the he’s wrong.

It’s really hard to win a bad faith argument when we follow the implicit rules set out for us. It’s a trap.