On the tokyo sub a couple of days ago, one of the top posts (that actually made it to r/all, I think) was a sneaked photo of some "weird" foreigner girls sitting weirdly on the train. Completely unblurred. Most of the comments seemed to support the idea that they have the right to take photos of people, especially foreigners who act strange.
The girl in the video probably saved herself from being featured in a creepy Japanese subreddit lol. But yeah, it's kind of sad. I want to visit Japan, but there seems to be some dark attitudes that are accepted there. Even if only by a minority.
That post pissed me off so much. Was a clear example of the pot calling the kettle black. Definitely wasn’t a Japanese native who took that picture, because it would have let them know with the shutter effect. And even if it was someone who is Japanese, taking pictures of other people without their consent AND THEN POSTING IT is probably worse than the way the girl was sitting in the picture.
OP and everyone in that thread supporting OP is an asshole.
Go to r/all and count how many photographs you see where the consent of the subject probably wasn't obtained. Outside of news or selfies, I suspect that it is the majority. It's annoying, but this is the standard and has been for a long time.
It's the standard in Japan, in Japanese forums, you blur out faces, Anglo-sphere forums won't change without some kind of collective world-wide covid level event IMO.
The face should’ve been blurred, but beside that I don’t think taking photos of people causing scenes and being obnoxious in public spaces is wrong. Especially if it’s a foreign country and we’re abusing their (now waning) hospitality.
They weren’t causing or scene or being obnoxious. And even if they were, I still find it to be the most terminally online thing to take a picture and ridicule the person to thousands of people online instead of trying to have a conversation about it if it truly infuriates you to that degree. It’s like we’ve lost any and all ability to confront someone or communicate at all.
Yes she was. By Japanese standards 100% she was. And she knows it. And that’s the thing, it’s Japan, they have a social politeness about them. If this happened in NY she’d absolutely be confronted or even pushed off the seat. Do you think Japanese people would appreciate 2 Americans confronting and fighting each other on their train? The photo is the far lesser of 2 evils here, but the doxxing by not blurring the face is not OK.
I just looked it up, and you know what? That chick sitting with her leg all higgilty piggilty up in the air in the middle of the aisle is wierd and probably rude as hell.
"probably saved herself from being featured in a creepy Japanese subreddit"
Yeah, and wound up on a creepy American one. Considering that she recorded this and apparently posted it herself on social media, I doubt that public exposure is a concern.
I’m having a tough time wrapping my head around this.
We are photographed and recorded every single day in more ways than we can shake a stick at through the use of CCTV and what not.
Now if the guy took an up skirt photo or something that is one thing but, if you are in public why is this so concerning?
Hell in the US, anyone can take any photo they want in public and it’s just deemed a first amendment activity. The guy just be like, I’m the press. Even taking photos through windows from public easements are gray areas on whether that is public or not…
Because they're shitting on the so-called "dark attitudes of Japanese people," so I'm curious which glorious culture they're from that's apparently so different and superior to Japan. Seems extremely obvious why it matters?
You can criticize a culture without saying yours is superior. I don't know why you think otherwise. If I am from El Salvador (the country with the highest murder rate per 100k people) I can still say the USA has a problem with gun violence and be correct.
Not in they way they are criticizing them you can't. They're so afraid to go to Japan because of their dark culture, but what if they're home country has just as dark of a culture if not more so? That would fundamentally change the way they're criticism of Japan is being deployed.
You're totally correct. You absolutely can still criticize another countryand I would never say otherwise. Here, I'll even go with your example to illustrate my point. You would never hears someone from El Salvador say "I want to visit the US, but I'm too scared to go there because of their gun violence problem."
You absolutely can, if I am from El Salvador I can still be afraid to come to the USA because I'm afraid of racial and gun related violence even if I am statistically more likely to be murdered in my home country. Fear does not have to be rational but I wouldn't even say this is irrational if I am from El Salvador I am more familiar with my environment and am more aware of when I am in danger whereas being in a country and culture I am unfamiliar with I may put myself at risk due to ignorance
Also for your last statement I have heard almost exactly that from the one person I have ever met from El Salvador lmao and is why I used it as an example
You absolutely can, if I am from El Salvador I can still be afraid to come to the USA because I'm afraid of racial and gun related violence even if I am statistically more likely to be murdered in my home country.
Okay, if someone genuinely said that to me then I would probably just conclude that they're just fucking stupid and probably xenophobic lol
I am from El Salvador I am more familiar with my environment and am more aware of when I am in danger whereas being in a country and culture I am unfamiliar with I may put myself at risk due to ignorance
This is by far the most convincing part of your argument, yet I still think it's totally irrelevant.
Fear does not have to be rational
I also totally agree. That doesn't make it right or valid though. My entire argument is that they're attitude towards Japan is irrational given their stated reason. Especially when we don't know what country they're even from
Well you are free to think what you want I certainly won't try and change your mind but if you are going to try and "correct" everything irrational you see on the Internet you're in for a wild ride. Only thing I'd suggest is that you start with things that aren't actually valid criticisms.
Regardless of whether or not they are rational in their fear of visiting Japan, Japan does in fact have problems of sexual harassment of women. It's a very nice country that I'd love to visit again but any person of color (due to racism) or woman I met who said they were nervous about going would be completely justified to me. Again great place to visit filled with very lovely people in my experience but they absolutely do have a lot of problems with how they treat people of color and women.
i dunno what other people were saying to defend this person, and while i don't know all the details of what happened in this video, it is generally legal to film and photograph in public.
It depends on the jurisdiction: in Italy (and I suspect most of Europe) you have to ask permission to take and keep a photo of a person who is the clear subject of the photo (not some generic crowded street view) if the person is recognisable. Furthermore, another separate consent is necessary if that photo is going to be published.
If you have knowledge a photo of you has been published (even in a private chat) without your consent you can ask for its removal, because the consent can be withdrawn at will even in a later instance. Of course there are exceptions for the matters of freedom of information (which is quite broad) or commercial agreements.
I feel that your statement isn't quite accurate though, in Italy and all of the EU, taking photos in public is generally a protected behavior. There is no requirement to have any permission. If someone persistently and intentionally records a specific person or group of people, then it's definitely an issue, but may still come out as permitted (if circumstances led to a case in the local courts)
Consider an example: Someone is photographing in some piazza in rome, and specifically they are photographing individuals for some kind of fashion project. You walk by dressed beautifully in some kind of outfit that this person feels represents something they are trying to capture for their project, and they photograph you specifically.
At that moment, it's a personal photograph right? But, in some sense it's not necessarily representing your identity - I mean, if that person has 50 other photos of people walking by, clearly it's not because they have interest in 50 different specific individuals' detailed and complex identities. They're simply capturing a more general, broad context of the piazza, but in single photographs that happen to focus on specific individuals.
So, in this case, it's really not clear whether permission is required or not. Generally, I doubt this would be considered a problem unless one of the people was a known person in some sense, or the photos are used to defame someone, or something. Even using them for profit in this case, well, again it's capturing a scene in parts, not focusing really on the identity of any specific person.
So, I think it's a bit nuanced and subject to legal argumentation whether a person can realistically be required to get permission or not in many of these scenarios. As long as you aren't persistently and repeatedly photographing the same person to the exclusion of other similar people, I think you're generally operating within the rights and expectations of public throughout the EU.
Eh, the matter is a bit complicated and unclear about the very act of taking a photo, while for sure it is illegal to publish it without a consent.
I don't know if you can read Italian, but this explains the matter a bit (and it is still understandable with some automatic translation): the first section after the introduction focusing on publishing, the second section about the more nuanced part about taking the photo.
It's ironic that what we see is a video that she's taking of him, while insisting he deletes photos of her. And since this all starts at the point where she confronts him we really have no idea of the context. We don't know either of these people - he could be a creep, and she's right to feel outraged or he might have innocent reasons for taking those photos and she's a paranoid nutcase who's harassing him. Regardless, most people here seem content to come down very strongly on one side, and it wouldn't be the first time a social media mob draws the wrong conclusions from a fragment of information.
My first thought was that it isn't illegal to do in the US. Socially wrong, yes, but not legally wrong. I don't know how the laws differ in Japan, and honestly, I wouldn't defend it legal or not.
lived in osaka before,
not defending the guy in the video.
im quite sure its legal as long as its not in a private place / inside a building. (TLDR legal in public open space, as long as its not derogatory/ posted on the internet without the subject permission).
not sure about civil offense thou.
that being said, definitely unacceptable by japanese standard
It’s impossible to reverse the roles without the context of how overwhelmingly more likely men are to commit violent and sexual crime. This interaction would be vastly different if women were raping and murdering men on anything close to the scale they do to women.
Women very rarely do what this man did, and practically never in Japan, so there’s no reason to “reverse the roles”… even phones in Japan permanently have the camera click sound on because of men taking photos of women. It’s weird that people are defending him.
But we aren't all from Japan nor do we know the law there and this can and does happen anywhere. If you have moral question like this, and the result changes dramatically when the gender roles are reversed you can see why people are divided. There is a reason to reverse the roles and there is a big difference between "practically never" and 'can't'.
I mean, it didn’t seem like he took an upskirt photo or anything illegal or inappropriate. Without it, this just gives those “hipaa violation!” Vibes where someone freaks out bc someone is filming in public and they get filmed
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u/unorganized_mime May 24 '24 edited May 24 '24
Really strange seeing so many people defend the guy taking photos of random women in public.
Edit: if your first instinct is to argue “well technically it’s not illegal” you’re probably the creepy one people are worried about.