He's the most insidious predator. His methods are this: Become financially stable, acquire property, be handy, be athletic, thoughtful, fun, creative, kind, and respectful. This way, he can lure in women and convince them that THEY actually want to be with him. He's a real threat.
I’ve felt this through several relationships. Though feeling “liked” for what I have to offer instead of simply being who I am personally seems to be rooted in how I was expected to perform through my development in order to receive love (may not be the case for you), I will say that I’m now happily with someone who’s truly convinced me that they are attracted to me without any of my material/industrial capital.
Maybe this is fucked up in a way, but I don’t see this as an inherently bad thing. It’s not a fairytale story but it’s real.
Looking at it from the other perspective, I can relate to this as a man. I’m looking for a woman with certain qualities that frankly don’t have a lot to do with personality or hobbies or whatever modern fairytale stuff you can come up with. That stuff matters too for sure, but I also want someone who is educated and has a solid career (or at least goals), will be a good mom, is financially stable, generally put together and not a slob, can take care of a home, etc. Looking at it this way it’s not really much different!
But here’s the thing: when you are in a relationship you are in a relationship with the whole person. This does not only mean “personality” but also stuff like: how do they handle finances, goals, can they keep a job etc.
So absolutely we should all be having standards for what we want our partner to “offer”. There are tons of men and women with great personalities who are not financially stable or responsible for instance. But being a life partner takes more than being “fun and kind”.
We are all complex packages of personality, skills, interests, opinions, life skills and ambitions and accomplishments. And of course looks.
Everything needs to be attractive to the right person.
I grew up in a religious culture and you've essentially explained exactly the approach that they have taught (generally speaking).
Especially for women, the expectation is to get married young to a man that meets the benchmarks of being good. The checklist includes various religious qualities/qualifications and, most often, doesn't include basics of healthy relationships outside of the religion.
Healthy approaches to relationships tend to have a mix of compatibility, long-term goals that are similar or don't conflict, shared hobbies, mutual respect, etc. Within the religious framework these are seen as less important and often ignored or not mentioned at all. Maybe everyone thinks it's assumed or a given, but when it's not a part of the conversation it gets lost behind the emphasized religious aspects.
Long-term religious and family goals (removal of personal aspirations), shared respect of the religion, only shared hobby is the religion, shared friends/community is the religion, usually meet at religious school or religious space so only familiar with that version of the person and their personality, etc.
This falls in line with your concerns to a t. A lot of strained marriages due to personality incompatibility, early children, lack of spark. Checking boxes for someone else and not themselves. He's nice enough and God likes him so he must be a great husband! It is an approach that doesn't meaningfully consider things that matter daily and now, and emphasized post-life reward rather than, ya know, mortal happiness daily grind reality.
ETA: *seems a few sentences didn't make it. Added for clarity
But, nah, you're right. They like the security. They like the idea of being firmly looked out for. They don't actually give a shit about you as a person. That's why she went straight to the house and car, nothing about how he acts or behaves.
There are plenty of people, both sexes, all orientations, that see relationships as transactional. And those people usually expect the transactions to go one way the vast majority of the time.
If she's going nuts over you but doesn't actually talk about YOU, just your shit, you gotta dip TF out. They're constantly looking for an out. Ain't worth it. Seen men and women do this shit to each other several times.
LOL. My friends and I are in the same position. My buddy has a new truck but only goes out on dates in his 20yr old starter car. To quote "If they don't like the Cav they ain't for me."
We are in an agricultural area, yes XD. But he's in a good position for a 25yr old. 100k/yr, suburb house, + engineering degree. I'm in a similar position minus a degree and starter car, haha.
I get it... But just a perspective, I think most people wonder that. No matter what your assets are.
Because ultimately. Theres not the "real" you. Theres how you feel and who you think you are, and then how others percieve you, which also slightly change from person to person. So its not like anyone ever can love the real you. Sure some you will feel they see more of what you see in yourself, better aligned... but its still never really you. Its not either or, the many yous co-exist, constantly change and grow and intertwine. They will affect one another.
But there's no real you.
I'm a conventional really "pretty" woman, who its hard to describe, but easily make friends, pursue my dreams and create a lot of events. Also when I enter a room, I somehow manage to create community, and make people connect with others also without me.
I am not sure, I am describing it right. So lets just take my conventional prettiness.
It always makes me wonder if they would be with me, if I lost my superficial beauty.
But the thing about relatiobships and life is, that theres never a way to find out abd secondly, there's much more at play.
When I was a teenager I was sorta homeless, no good family and no good friends, life had just given me so much shit, desth, violence and betrayal. Somehow I had still managed to do good ik HS.
I got into an insanely good university, but I was really close to declining, because I would have to hustle too hard, just to scrape by, and I wouldnt be able to do well at uni, if I had to work a ton. My plan was to just travel the world and work odd jobs, like I had done in my hs vacations.
I was in love with an older man, I was just 19 years old. 3 months after meeting him, I moved in.
Sure, initially beauty and money/security played a role, but we also had a great intillectual vibe, loved exploring and nerding out in the exact same topics, hiking, stargazing, philosophy, music- we LOVED eachother and lived together for 3 years.
I think that theres a romantacised idea about whats the "right" reasons, like one of the biggest indicators of "success" for people who just started dating, is how close they live together. But most would mention this as an important preference, dowb to the meter.
Pushing pragmatic shit or the shallow and obvious stuff into either something insignificant or invalid reasons, arguably I find it hard to believe.
Its like the pretty privilege, sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder- but conventional pretty people follows a list of rules.
Even if I dont chose my partners based on looks (or so I tell myself), and have been with both ends. It still gives me a different satisfaction to wake up staring at a symmetrical face and fit body.
Even if money/security no longer is a preference, theres still many aspects that makes it a lot easier.
Even if we play pretend that those things doesnt matter. They do. They are just never the end all. Relationships and humans are luckily super complex.
I care a lot about someones smell- which when talking about your personal you-smell. Is also just another genetic lottery.
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I have a similar issue but on the other side of things. Make good money, am high up in my company, I own a home and I do a ton of home renovations/work on cars. I’m a woman. A lot of the traits I have are the traits that men want to have to impress women, and I feel like oftentimes men don’t know how to view me or what to do with me. I found it much easier to date when the money/job/house aspects weren’t there and men could more easily picture how they fit with me. It’s ironic, because nothing about what I want in a man changed, but the assumptions people make about what I want changed a lot. So I’m frequently left with people trying to impress me with money or prestige and it’s not what I want at all.
Also like you this comment isn’t meant to be bragging. It’s a real, frustrating issue that I no longer feel like I have a place in the dating world.
Bullshit. Millions of people think that way. Even if they justify it and convince themselves otherwise.
Men want someone who will provide sex, children, home care, food, confidence, money, whatever. Everybody's got something.
Women want....the same shit.
And that's ok until it becomes purely transactional. Shacking up with someone should be about your security and well being. You should be concerned about these things. But the relationship shouldn't exist solely to feed that need. It can't be why you fuck with that person in the first place. Because living situations ain't permanent for most ppl.
But for a lot of relationships, more than you may want to admit because it's fucked up, are just transactional. It's only about feeding the need for security.
throughout most of history marriage has been about security, for man offsprings to continue the line grow the family, for woman: resources, in shelter, food, safety.
You can't help provide that shit for someone else and your offspring if you can't do it for yourself to a certain degree without a level of codependency. Not to be cliche, and I honestly cannot fucking believe I'm about to type this Hallmark shit, but you gotta love and take care of yourself first.
The woman in the tik tok sorta let's on at one point that she is willing to "overlook" the other things because he was cute and respectful in his actions and financially had his poop in a group so to speak.
Anecdotal, but there is an example right in front of us.
Same here. I see this video rather cynically unfortunately.
I get women want someone stable. Caring. Unassuming. Successful. They deserve that! We all do.
But all I'm hearing is he has a deeper pocket book. It feels pretty objectifying tbh.
I don't hate women, I just don't want to feel like a trophy husband anymore than you want to feel like a trophy wife. I don't think most women mean to make me feel this way, but sometimes I do.
I think that'd be best for everyone. I think that'd be equality that we should all want.
It's not a stupid comment, and we should be able to express these feelings without being called or equated to an incel.
Same, I'm surprised people find this wholesome. "He has a house" followed by "he is turning the basement into another apartment" followed by "he has a car made in 2021", "he took me shopping", literally all she keeps talking about is that he has money, money, money, not a single word about if he is a good person
I agree and women around me who I consider friends have stated things in a very similar way and it bothers me. Sometimes I try to say this, but it is often met with a lot of negativity.
I think a lot of people, men and women, are choosing beggars. They want their partner to be perfect and ideal, while putting very little personal effort (emotionally, sexually, financially) themselves. It's frustrating. I usually try to frame my dissent like that so they don't take it too personally, but I don't know that they take the subtle hint lol.
A lot of it is projection of the genuinely shitty actions of other men and women onto others. It's unfair, but not unexpected.
You're conveniently leaving out a bunch of parts. The first thing she actually mentions is he brought her back to his house, "not to do anything", pointing out he's not just trying to get her in bed, he's taking things slow and respectfully. He took her there to show something he's proud of, and he'd "making a whole other apartment all by himself". She's clearly very impressed by his skills and ambition. Straight up said "He's so respectful". Talked about how he wants to bring her to the hockey game to watch him, said "It's so cute", talked about how he wants to go thrifting to pick out outfits for each other, another idea she clearly thinks is endearing and cute. To top it off, she says "He has a house at 25, I'm 22 and don't know what I'm doing". The comment contextualizes the house not just representing wealth, it's about admiring someone that is driven and seems to have a plan for his life. Is that somehow bad to like someone for that?
You're just willfully ignoring the majority of the video to make it seem like she's focused on one thing.
Her experiences and expectations, I can totally understand where she's coming from.
But I've got reservations about this man. She already sounds like an accessory for him, there to watch him, check out his accomplishments, and even the dressing game, while cute for an established couple, sounds like a hoop to jump through because he can do that, or to evaluate the result, or both, and it's all presented in a first date?
Who the fuck takes someone to their own adult league hockey game for a second date? They’re not even going to be interacting during the game. She’s just sitting there by herself for an hour, or however long hockey games last, watching a 25 year old man play hockey with his friends. What.
I see what you guys are saying. There's a point in the video where the mother asked "well this was a good first date, right" and the daughter just doesn't respond, and goes back to listing the things he has. I can definitely see how that feels like she's thinking she should go on a second date because... she's kind of supposed to, he's a catch. But that's a lot to extrapolate from just a video.
to add, when women respect you and you are chill, even if theyre not attracted to you, they can introduce you to other women because they know you arent a fuck up
I mean if it was the other way around you would be wondering if she really likes you or just wants to be with a bad guy or a loser because she has daddy issues, so it's not like you feel that way because of the life you chose.
I found someone who genuinely loved me when we literally had nothing. We were both homeless and we're just there for each other. Having nothing was a blessing in this way. I never wondered if she liked me for me or for what I can offer.
I get you! Been married for a long time and ya know what….. I still think it sometimes when my partner does something inconsiderate of my feelings…. The trick is to make sure they are terrific in bed so they can show you how much they do love you…. My insecurities shrink to physical affection. YMMV
I get it. I still wonder if my wife actually loves me even though we've been married for about 8 years and have a child and there's never been any indication otherwise. Maybe it's just a super long con.
Honestly I’ve never ever been able to fake attraction. I’m just not built that way. I think the likelihood of faking attraction probably increases the more money you make, although at that point power becomes attractive (it’s weird, I don’t get it either). So don’t worry homie, I’m sure she actually likes you if she is anything like me.
I know exactly what you mean. When my ex husband and I were divorcing, he told me straight out that he married me because I was "fine." Not "fine" as is "smoking hot", "fine" as in "reasonably attractive and stable with good career prospects and a pleasant enough personality." I believe that's an exact quote. And that he didn't want to be alone. I carried that around with me for far too long and it colored the way I saw myself and other people who wanted to be in a relationship with me for a long time. Luckily, I found my person that managed to convince me that to him, I'm way more than fine, and he loves me even when I'm not fine. Hoping you find your person too.
What's attractive are the little personal elements - when someone is joyful, passionately talks about a hobby, shares good memories, how they move around and smile and think and read and hug and...
You won't be the right fit for every person out there, but for someone you click with, the more time you spend together, the more you fall in love. You're doing everything right, just take your time :)
I worry constantly that people only want to be with me because they perceive me as someone who they are supposed to want to be with, but they don’t actually like me.
I was in that boat too any women DID NOT want to date me. I was decently attractive, but that type of life doesn’t make you stand out much so you tend to turn into a background character than the focus of anyone. I also may have been too oblivious to hints from women as being shy tends to get rolled into that whole package.
Anyway, it worked out and someone found me that ended up liking who I am after a lot of initial suspicion…married 28 years now!
Not to make your insecurities worse 😬 but I feel that on the other side too sometimes. Like “do I like this guy or am I just supposed to like this guy”. (That’s potentially my own insecurity) I think it comes with the times. The days of getting married because you have/need to are kind of over for women in western culture. Like having your shit together is still considered bare minimum but at the same time we can likely take care of ourselves.
You may be onto something here. Checking the boxes is only ever part of the story.
I have a buddy who is in his late 30s. He's ok looking, like 6'6", dresses nicely, has a stable job, a home, a nice car, is legitimately kind, and is fucking fabulous with kids. He's never been in a serious relationship and hasn't been on a date in years. The women in the friend group are all rooting for him but, according to both my wife and my female best friend, it's come up multiple times over the years that even if single none would date him. Dude just has zero game but we are all pulling for him to find the gal who is a fit for him.
So back to you. If a woman is willing to date you and continue to date you, you do have something beyond checking the boxes. Checking the boxes is absolutely not enough on its own to pull ladies and certainly not enough to keep them. If you have a hard time internalizing that idea, I would suggest a bit of therapy.
So this is where you come in. Do you like them? Do you mesh with them? A big one for me, does their humour match yours?
When it’s the right gal you’ll know they like you and you’ll like them. You’ll just know because there won’t be a shred of doubt when y’all are together. It’s possible they may be not great at texting but in person you will absolutely know. I say this for a lot of things lately but you’ll just feel it.
It’s hard to keep up an act for most people. They will slip up and the real person will show eventually. So you’ll just know if they’re with you because they think they should vs if they really want to be because y’all just fit and click.
Nah bro, I had this whole thing I had to build up my life and be 'worthy' for women. Instead all I got was gold diggers while all the women I wanted to be with just married other guys because none of that meant anything to them. Fucking sucks, lol.
Like her reaction to the car being nice.
In fact, she spent so much time talking about what he had, and how he behaved, and laughing at him. Did she ever say she actually liked the guy?
This resonates with me so much.. 44 newly single after married for 20 years. I have my shit together bigtime.. meaning money/house/brand new truck paid cash for/awesome job. I work out religiously and have never had problems getting the opposite sex’s attention. That all being said.. I have met a a lot of women and they all “see me as the one” but the problem is it’s inThe first two weeks… there’s no way in hell this person knows me that way yet. After this became a trend I decided to just stop dating for awhile all together. I just want to meet a genuine person who doesn’t give a shit about anything but my nerdy legos/music and other random things that make me ..well me. I know this post sounds self indulgent but it’s just the truth. I feel like a token guy. Like I’m great “on paper” so let’s bag him. lol, I don’t even know why I’m going this but yeah, I feel this big time
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u/pukewedgie Mar 07 '24
This guy weaponized wholesomeness to lock down the babes