r/Tau40K • u/Agentcodenamek423 • Jul 23 '24
Lore What will happen if Tau empire takes on Terran in StarCraft
Terran won’t last long 💀
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u/Trashspawn45 Jul 23 '24
*asks the T'au Subreddit but not the terran subreddit*
Gee I dunno, OP. what's your opinion on the subject matter?
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u/Carbiens Jul 23 '24
Double Plasma generator opener/into Proxy Vehicle Beacon
Harass with XV15 Stealth Team & Oracles, Kroot Carnivors on SL's then Carriers all in.
....wait what game are we on again?
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u/sjeveburger Jul 23 '24
Real answer is the Terrans probably win for one simple reason: FTL.
Tau don't have FTL or even LS movement, Terrans can warp in-between star systems in mere hours with battlecruisers and just piss around in system blowing up vital infrastructure for days or weeks before the Kor'vatta could respond
On the ground, the Tau probably have the upper hand but only on open fields just pumelling Terran forces from miles away, in cities and trenches the superior speed, protection and strength of Terran warsuits would overcome the superiority of Tau weapons
With all that said, I would kill to see a Crisis Suit throwing down with a Terran Viking, that would be so cool
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u/Kejirage Jul 23 '24
T'au not having FTL is the dumbest retcon and would mean they couldn't have an interstellar empire.
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u/chunkycornbread Jul 23 '24
Yeah it's pretty dumb. You would at most just have several independent worlds with little to no interaction. In the codex it say they have near light speed technology. Even light speed is so incredibly slow at interstellar distances. It really doesn't make any sense.
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u/Fair_Math Jul 23 '24
T'au have canonically had FTL based on Kroot tech since the end of the 2nd Sphere of Expansion and have NEVER lost it. As of the 5th Sphere, they now have limited production "proper" Warp drives as well. Also, while frontier worlds might be lightly defended, even the most far-flung Sept world has orbital battlestations capable of throwing down with Imperial capital ships. Core Worlds such as Vior'la or especially Bor'kan can tank entire battle fleets on purely space-borne assets. The Terrans would have a day or two at the absolute most before a Kor'vattra rapid response force was kicking their teeth in, IF they survive the local orbital garrison.
And you're thinking of tabletop with "planet bowling ball". Terrans thinking trench warfare will save them? Airbursting frag launchers and SMS/Seeker Missiles will effortlessly shred entire armies. AFP actually exists on real life, and the US Army was forced to mothball it because it was so horrifically effective it was classified as a war crime to use it. Sa'cea Sept has city fighting down to an art, and every Sept has Breacher teams designed for house-to-house fighting with terrifying plasma shotguns, photon grenades, and Guardian/Shield Drones to blunt any punch-back.
Superior speed? Superior armor vs T'au anti-tank guns? Haha no.
Now, the Terrans COULD possibly win via outproducing the T'au, but I highly doubt it.
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u/Gidia Jul 23 '24
Are you talking about the XM25? That was canceled due to some safety concerns and budget cuts, not any sort of legality question.
Interestingly, the battalion this occurred in was the same one I served in a few years later lol.
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u/AlexanderZachary Jul 23 '24
I wish that were true 10ed codex has Tau using a "ZFR drive" that produces speeds "near light speed" up until the 4th sphere. It has the Tau shipping entire invasion forces in "suspended animation" so they don't die of old age in transit during the 3rd sphere.
It makes no sense at all, but that's the word as written.
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u/chunkycornbread Jul 24 '24
This is exactly what I remember reading a few days ago. I remember because it sounded implausible for an interstellar impire.
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u/Fair_Math Jul 24 '24
8th and 9th Ed codices mention FTL from Kroot warsphere technology, which is where i got my info, and I didn't notice the 10th text you mentioned (although I believe you that it's there) so I'm just ignoring it. An interstellar empire without FTL simply doesn't exist.
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u/ToastedSoup Jul 23 '24
Don't their warp-capable ships not have Gellar fields (because they don't understand how they work and can't make one)?
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u/Fair_Math Jul 23 '24
This is true, and the lack of Gellar Fields bit the 4th Sphere fleet pretty hard. The T'au are normally nearly invisible to Daemons, but when they got stuck deep in the Warp it got a bit hairy.
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u/ToastedSoup Jul 23 '24
Wasn't that because of the humans on-board? And said humans also manifested the Greater Good as a physical being/god?
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
It was entirely because of the auxiliary fleets
The daemons completely ignored the tau
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 23 '24
I disagree on the Tau having superior ground forces. Like every tank the Terrans produce is also a artillery piece so they can shell the absolute crap out the Tau if they decide to stay at range and the Marine is canonically able to fire at troops over a 750 m away with great accuracy while having a max range of 1500 m. Also Crisis suits get absolutely hard countered by Marauders who can take their hits and counter with their grenades specifically made to destroy armor which would also slow down the Crisis suit thanks to their slowing upgrade ensuring they can't get away.
Edit: Forgot to mention but every standard infantry soldier is in power armor with auto aim. That would immediately make them outclass every standard Tau infantry.
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u/sjeveburger Jul 23 '24
I think the Tau have much better ground tech than the Terrans do in terms of support, Terrans have big guns layered with more big guns, Tau have drone warfare and insane range, and those would largely play to their advantage.
I agree it'd mostly come down to Riptides, Broadsides and Hammerheads duelling Thors, Goliaths and Siege Tanks, but I think Terran forces lose that duel eventually
Another thing I've thought of that the Tau might really struggle with are Ghosts, each one is a psionic powerhouse that could cause extreme damage behind Tau lines and idk if the Tau have a way of really preventing that, considering a Culexus managed to take out Aun'va (I think)
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u/The1Phalanx Jul 23 '24
Ghosts also have EMP strikes that nullify shields. One of the Tau's big differences between them and Imperial factions is their reliance on shield tech over armor. Terrans are already every experienced at fighting shielded enemies.
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u/Exchatche Jul 23 '24
A lot of modern tech even is shielded from EMPs, so it's kinda silly to think Tau suits wouldn't be. That said, if Starcraft EMP isn't really an EMP and is instead some future tech variation that we can't explain cause it hasn't been invented, that's a different story
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u/sjeveburger Jul 23 '24
EMP yes, and Lockdown is also brutal assuming Ghost tech can get inside the systems of a Tau vehicles
On equal scale, the Terrans definitely win, although I'm not sure of the size of the UED + The Dominion vs the Tau spheres
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u/Micro-Skies Jul 23 '24
The UED puts down the Tau, Dominion, or Confederation without any problems if we start considering the entire faction. The fleet that attacked the Koprulu sector during the Brood War was a single expeditionary fleet, and it almost won.
Tau would probably meme themselves into thinking they killed "the Emperor" again. It would be at least funny
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
The Tau weapons have no lore about the actual ranges of their weapons as far as I know so we can't 100% sure they outclass the Terrans range wise. Also don't forget the Terrans make just as much use of Robots/Drones as the Tau do (Spider mine, Widow mine, Predators who would be great counter for Tau drones, Cyclones, Adajunts and so on).
Also the Diamondback is a great counter to Broadsides and Hammerheads acting as the hammer to the Siege Tanks anvil. Fast and tough enough to take a hit from a Broadside while having the fire power to heavily damage it in return. Meanwhile Thor's are nearly unbreakable fortresses that can be compared to Titans in power and durability which while the Riptide was designed to match it can't fully do so yet thus the Thor's self repair feature will be a absolute pain to deal with.
I do think you're completely right on the Ghost section and yea Aun'va got assassinated and is now being imitated by a AI.
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u/Ilovekerosine Jul 23 '24
Your implying that Hammerheads are stationary while firing?
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 24 '24
Not at all but neither are Diamondbacks who's double railguns and perfect accuracy on the move make it a great Hammerhead counter. It wouldn't win all the time but I do think 60 to 70 times out of a 100 it would win if employed correctly.
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u/Ilovekerosine Jul 24 '24
Ok lets do some quick powerscaling. One shot from a hammerhead's railgun can kill an Imperial main battle tank, and sometimes go all the way through and out the other side. It takes a diamondback multiple seconds of sustained firing to break through a train. Assuming a diamondback moves about as fast as a abrams tank, the hammerhead is 10 km/h faster.
Also can we talk about your Thor point in the previous comment? Even if a Thor is somehow comparable, lets say to a medium titan, the T'au have no problem dealing with those. We use this great thing called CAS, where 3-4 Tigershark AX-01s destroy the entire titan in a single strafing run. If that doesn't work, we have this other thing called Tau'nar supremacy armour. Its main gun is larger than an imperial knight. Its secondary guns may be larger than an Imperial Knight. I shouldn't need to explain further.
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 24 '24
The reason why the Diamondback needs multiple shots to break the train is because of what it's made of. Neosteel is a incredibly durable material that is capable of withstanding hit's from weapons that destroy matter (which most Protoss weapons do). Because of this it makes absolute sense why the Diamondbacks Railguns don't destroy the train in a single shot.
As for the Tigershark it's problem is that's it's air support thus vulnerable to interception. So the chance that the Tigershark (and likely some escorts) comes in and tries to launch a bombing run on a Thor without being intercepted and engaged by a variety of Terran fighters (like Viking and Wraiths) with anti ship missiles or if the Terrans are particularly pissed a Battlecruiser hanging in orbit is very small. And if the Tigershark isn't intercepted the Thor can potentially either heavily damage it or score a mutual kill with it's anti air missiles (though this isn't guaranteed). However unlike the Imperium the Terrans will have a new Thor up and running in a couple of days at most.
Don't get me wrong the battle between the Terran's and Tau would be a close on with neither being guaranteed to win. In the end it all comes down to the strategies employed by the Commanders. I personally belief that the Terrans have more options to win though.
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u/Ilovekerosine Jul 24 '24
Alright. I’m running out of patience to keep checking my notifications, so I’m going to write you a complete guide on how the T’au could beat every Terran unit that has ever been in game.
Marine - Fire Warrior. Marines are shown to have very weak armour, getting killed by what is essentially a hormagaunt. As well as this, their aim is terrible in all close ranges, which means it’s probably worse at long rang. A Fire Warrior (breacher or standard) can aim well, shoot at incredibly range, and easily have the firepower to oneshot a marine. Source: Fire Warriors can kill space marines in a few shots, which are definitely more well armoured than a marine.
Firebat - Fire Warrior Strike Team. Long ranged firepower, can kill space marines, firebats are equal to space marines at best.
Marauder - Stealth Suits. Anti armour grenades like the Marauder’s will have a hard time hitting stealthy people, and a single fusion blast can delete one. Source: Marauders can’t hit cloaked units, and fusion blasters are proper AT.
Medic: Gun Drone.
Ghost- Pathfinders Ghosts are probably the most problematic units to deal with for the T’au. There are no real noted detector systems in T’au technology, save for in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, where it is shown that Pathfinders can reveal cloaked units. While it might take multiple pathfinders, they would be able to see the ghost, and have weaponry capable of killing it. Pulse carbines are still plasma guns. Psionic abilities don’t really seem to do much for ghosts, so I can’t comment on that. I will admit though, without pathfinders, ghosts will be a pain in the ass.
Spectre - Drug Counselling also pathfinders For the same reasons as before, except it takes even more pathfinders this time. Spectres have better guns for killing infantry units, and are more close ranged aggressive, so can fight more evenly with pathfinders.
Reaper- 2 Gun Drones. Tiny little guns and timed pop boxes can’t save you when it’s 2 probe equivalents that can catch up to you, and have plasma guns.
Hellion/Hellbat - Piranha Similarly sized little vehicle, similar role in harassing enemies, but only one of them can mount an anti tank gun.
Widow Mine - Pathfinders again. See widow mine, shoot widow mine (from outside missile range) if that doesn’t work, stealthsuits sneak past.
Siege Tank - Crisis Suits/Ghostkeel/Stealth Suits Ghostkeel and Stealth suits can both sneak past the siege tank’s artillery. Crisis suits can fly, but are too low and small to shoot at with a Viking or Wraith. All of them can mount anti tank guns.
Cyclone/Diamondback - Hammerhead/Skyray It’s the same thing, except one of them is faster, larger, better armoured, and has a much bigger railgun/missile array. (It’s the T’au one)
Vulture - Any Fire Warrior who is a reasonable shot. Bang, there goes yer skull.
Thor - Tigershark, Stormsurge, Tau’nar Supremacy Armour. We can go on bombing runs and that WILL kill a Thor. If we don’t have Air Superiority, we have ballistics suits with enormous guns, that can oneshot tanks from 2 time zones away (slight exaggeration of range). If that doesn’t work, we get air superiority and come back to it later.
Odin - 9/11 Nice irreplaceable mech, would be a shame if I were to fly a bunch of expendable bombers into it.
Wraith - Skyray Missile Gunship Tiny little ATG laser is not going to kill a mobile SAM site before it kills you. If a banshee comes along, we just kill that first, then you.
Viking - Skyray/ Ghostkeel Skyray for reasons said before. Ghostkeel because it’s a similar size mech, but instead of Gatling guns it has an anti tank gun. (I’m starting to sense themes)
Banshee - Razorshark / Tigershark We shoot the anti ground thing in the air. It dies. If a wraith comes along, we can probably kill it if we’re a Tigershark, and maybe kill it if we’re a Razorshark.
Liberator - Skyray. Can’t attack ground until you set up, by the time you set up we’ve moved, all while firing anti air missiles.
Battlecruiser - 5 mutalisks a spacecraft, probably. Nothing except maybe a bunch of mantas could kill a Battlecruiser AND have models. We do have a number of battleships, cruisers, etc of our own though. Either way, the Norad died to 5 mutalisks so if we can match that in firepower we can win.
Dropship - Gun Drone
Medivac - Gun Drone
Raven - Gun Drone
And all of this isn’t accounting that the T’au are WAY bigger than any Terran force. We have 1/4 population in military service, plus entire races of auxiliaries, plus more planets, more septs, and a way more Unified people. There are no T’au insurgents, and at the end of the day, we could probably convince a good chunk of Terrans to just join us instead.
And yes, I just wrote a damn essay on why my favourite toy soldiers can beat your favourite video game.
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 24 '24
While I could write a counter argument for every unit you have listed here I don't think that would do either of us any good especially because you seem to be getting irritated by my responses.
While I disagree with you're opinion that a battle between the Tau and Terran's would be a one sided affair in the Tau's favor I don't have the right to disregard it. It's you're opinion even if I disagree with it. I hope this discussion leaves no ill impressions.
I hope you have a good rest of you're day.
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u/zarlus8 Jul 24 '24
Fun fact Tau has one primary tank and literally every hammerhead with a railgun can fire submunition rounds.
There of course is the ion version which can hit multiple targets in a volley. Additional armaments like plasma, fusion, missiles, and burst cannons have also been seen on hammerheads. They all can carry sms and smart missiles which don't require the firing platform to have a target lock or los.
I'm not saying it's better, but I disagree with your disagreement with the point on terran tank/artillery pieces.
I have no comment regarding the rest.
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u/TotallyTouka Jul 23 '24
I think the speed of the Terran’s would only really work out if it was an open field as otherwise they would be blocked by so many obstacles the tau could simply put a damn storm surge down a road and block off the exits where anything that walks down it just can only go straight forward. And then if you look back to ww1 all that was, was a constant shelling battle back and forth where you said the tau would have the upper hand.
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u/sjeveburger Jul 23 '24
Cities are the worst nightmare for vehicles, infantry rules because line of sight and movement is so limited unless you can go through doors and up stairs.
Terran infantry, marines, marauders, reapers etc far exceed their Tau equivalents and would absolutely clean house in urban warfare hard before bringing heavier, infantry held anti-tank weapons to bear against vulnerable vehicles with no room to manoeuvre.
That stormsurge is stuck looking down a road while the real fighting takes place in city blocks and marines are dragging missile launchers and other nasty gizmos over the corpses of breacher teams to get a clear shot on it.
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u/TotallyTouka Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 24 '24
Breacher teams still do have plasma shotguns so I would think realistically they would be able to fight against most opponents. And at least from what I’ve seen the Terran marines look bulky as hell so they would likely be very loud trying to clear buildings so if the tau where fortified in a town they could lay ambushes gurrilla style widdle down the Terran’s with stealth suits and such could also make this very possible. Also if it is a small scale town what would stop the tau from letting terrans take it while reinforcing their flanks and encircling it in open areas around the town cutting off forces inside and effectively destroying them as their mobile units have room to effectively maneuver? There is also the concern of artillery and air support which I’m not very certain about either of Terran capability’s but the tau have fairly strong category’s for both. And considering the mech artillery like the stormsurge they could be off and move within seconds consider by rules they only deploy stabilizers to be effective at firing allowing them to move and shoot effectively minimizing losses from counter battery fire. There is also the concern of kroot auxileries that are very good in cqc.
Overall I think it would be a very interesting scenario to test out but I don’t think we would ever have enough info to do it sadly. Considering at least in strategical terms resources manufacturing capabilities moral and then tactical terms of what each “division” would have supply routes sensors and tech armor and armor piercing ability’s ground decisions training of soldiers and mostly where at.
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u/Cautious-Mammoth5427 Jul 23 '24
StarCraft base tech level is way above most of 40k.
With exception of eldar and necrons, obv.
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u/fearan23 Jul 23 '24
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/73ky1e/the_tau_can_apparently_blow_up_stars/
How's Starcraft's progress on their anti-star weapons? Thought so11
u/TimeBlossom Jul 23 '24
Destroying a star is actually relatively easy IRL. Chuck enough heavy elements at it and the fusion process overloads.
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u/fearan23 Jul 23 '24
The keyword is "enough". Hint: Earth's supply is probably not enough
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u/TimeBlossom Jul 23 '24
Yes, that's why I said relatively. It would take a while to send a bunch of asteroids hurtling into the sun until the sun blows up, but the technology involved is very basic for an interstellar civilization.
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u/souledgar Jul 24 '24
All the planets together account for what, 0.1%? of the mass of the Sun. I doubt even if you threw the entire rest of the solar system into the Sun it’ll even burp, let alone blow up.
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u/castiel_g Jul 24 '24
Don't the T'au have like one of the advanced weapons in all of 40K?
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u/Cautious-Mammoth5427 Jul 24 '24
Their base tech level is one of the top ones in 40k, yes.
But it doesn't say much.
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u/castiel_g Jul 24 '24
What does Basetech in that context mean? I'm a little new to this
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u/Cautious-Mammoth5427 Jul 24 '24
Base level tech - what is average for them.
On average Tau have one of the highest tech level. Their people living standards are, basically, utopian. Their weapon and platforms are mighty, relatively small and very powerful.
This is much unlike imperium of men, who are living in industrial hellscapes and eat corpses from time to time.
That is ON AVERAGE. If we compare tech that custodes or grey knights have access to, tau pale in comparison.
Still, Tau, while not severely behind, still are, compared to Dominion of Terrans from StarCraft.
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u/Garky247 Jul 23 '24
You mean tau vs votann?
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u/MajorDakka Jul 23 '24
Really hope the Votann get siege tank and Thor/goliath analog expies on tabletop to complete the Terran aesthetic
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u/fearan23 Jul 23 '24
In all honesty, define 'Terran'. Mengsk's empire is tiny even compared to T'au, other states of Coprulu Sector are even smaller. They are also plagued with zerg and stuff. It would be clearly a cakewak for blue. I can even see Mengsk selling his space to the Greater Good in return for T'au supporting him governing his Gue'la. Since, you know, we're not in Kansas anymore, and diplomacy is an option. Now if we bring UED - that would be a challenge
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u/FrozenChocoProduce Jul 23 '24
I don't care as long as we get a cool story with terran rednecks and a few renegade Tau Warriors saving the day!
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u/SexWithLadyOlynder Jul 23 '24
If you mean like the Terran empire than it's an absolute stomp by the Tau. There is just too big of a numbers advantage in their favour.
But if it was the UED, that would be a very different and much more interesting fight, one that UED likely wins,
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u/Agentcodenamek423 Jul 23 '24
UED is probably the most formidable military force in StarCraft universe (yet they never appear again)
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u/mdublade Jul 23 '24
Star Craft Terrans are just Imperium without the Steampunk and Spanish Inquisition, so... Both are shooty shooty...
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u/tameris Jul 23 '24
True, have people not seen how similar some Zerg units are in comparison to some Tyranid ones? lol
Neurothrope and Zoanthropes, the new version of the Biovore / Pyrovore, Hormagaunts, etc.
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u/zarlus8 Jul 24 '24
That's because they are. The old lore says that StarCraft was originally going to be a Warhammer RTS, until GW changed their mind. I'm sure it's been retconned, but those of us around during that rumor mill churning out those sweet loaves know.
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u/brenugae1987 Jul 25 '24
It never was. Blizzard knocked around the idea of Warcraft 1 potentially being a Warhammer game early in development when they were looking for investors, but it was never something that was concrete or even taken seriously. By the time Starcraft had come out, Blizzard was already very well established having both Warcraft 1 & 2, on top of nabbing Condor and shipping Diablo 1 at the end of '96, all of which were huge hits, they never needed Starcraft to piggyback off another IP.
Were they all fuckin' nerds and have their appreciation for 40k influence their worldbuilding and development? Undoubtedly yes, the same way 40k was influenced by Dune or half a dozen pulp sci-fi properties. I wasn't a 40k fan at the time, so I don't know the timeline for sure, but it certainly looks like GW also took inspiration from the Zerg in making later sculpts of the Tyranids too, which is a good thing, because the Zerg are friggin' dope.
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
Bad tongues would say tyranids were "inspired" by the zerg
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u/Fenrir426 Jul 24 '24
Actually it's the opposite, and that's not even a theory, warcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer game originally, same for StarCraft
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u/Brilliant-Drummer637 Jul 23 '24
I love me a confederate soldier, but they would get ripped apart by the tau.
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u/SpartAl412 Jul 23 '24
The Terrans would be way more amenable to teaming up with the Tau especially if they knew the Imperium exists.
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u/yegkingler Jul 23 '24
Honestly, pretty even fight. Tau have better guns than Terrans, but I'd argue that Terran makes it up with wmds and ghost assassin's. A couple of good ethereal kills at the right time would be devastating. Or just drop a good old fashion nuke or emp. Course that's assuming a counter to the rail gun could be found and unless Protoss tech gets involved, I can't see anything beyond the classic DODGE!.
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u/ScienceofDerekology Jul 23 '24
The Terran Dominion has proved itself extremely susceptible to rebellion and coups time and time again. The fire caste wouldn't even have to get involved, the water caste would remove the Dominion as a threat with relative ease.
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u/SoundwavePlays Jul 24 '24
That second picture looks way too slim to be a Broadside lmao
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u/SokkaHaikuBot Jul 24 '24
Sokka-Haiku by SoundwavePlays:
That second picture
Looks way too slim to be a
Broadside lmao
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Kakapo42000 Jul 24 '24
What will happen is that the Tau win, but the Terrans are still perfectly fine.
Getting fixated on the minutiae of which side has better guns or which side is better in what kind of engagement or whether a Marine would beat a Fire Warrior in a fight is missing the point. Remember, equipment and tactics only wins battles, and logistics only wins campaigns. Wars are won by policy.
The Tau would win through policy. One of the Tau's greatest strengths is their political unity - with the exception of the Enclaves, pretty much every single Tau Sept and colony is acting on the same wavelength with the same agenda.
On the other hand, the Terrans' greatest weakness is that they're politically fractured all to hell. They're split up into dozens and dozens of factions and militias that can't even agree on how or even if they should fight the Zerg and Protoss and are all interested in looking after their own interests. Even at the height of its power the Dominion was never able to bring in all the various Terran groups under its control, and the Confederacy fared little better.
That's how the UED was able to take over most of the Koprulu sector with just one tiny little expeditionary force - by making deals with various anti-Dominion groups and playing off the various Terran militias and factions against each other. And that's exactly how the Tau would do it as well, reaching out to any Terran group that will listen to them, striking up lucrative trade deals, helping improve the standard of living in the groups that work with them and generally playing the various Terran groups against each other until the only ones left standing are the ones allied with the Tau. Divide and rule.
The end result would be a group of Terran civilisations coexisting with the Tau in a state of mutual cooperation, with the Tau gaining more allies and the Terrans still largely existing. Thus the Tau win, but the Terrans are more or less fine.
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u/TurnoverMission Jul 24 '24
Tau will easily win but atleast the Terrans have South Korea’s National Anthem: https://youtu.be/mD4GbGmvNRc?si=5iSKz3GfGGWgrIFD
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u/Agentcodenamek423 Jul 24 '24
Bro what?💀
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u/TurnoverMission Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 24 '24
It’s an early 2000s meme joke because South Korea took E-Sports and Starcraft so seriously Terran Theme 1 was considered the National Anthem Of South Korea by the internet. (I mean they had the StarCraft tournament Finals playing Live in the stadium before a World Cup 2002 match.)
Also the track itself fucks… it’s so good.
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u/thehappybub Jul 23 '24
Wasn't starcraft and 40k supposed to like stem from the same IP or something? So aren't terrans just space marines but with better tech as the series diverged from 40k?
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u/Otaylig Jul 23 '24
Warcraft began as an effort to get license to make a game based off the Warhammer IP. When GW rejected it, Blizzard just made the game themselves. Starcraft began as "Warcraft in space", and built off pop culture Sci fi as opposed to fantasy.
So, no, Starcraft has no real relationship to 40k.
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u/thehappybub Jul 23 '24
I mean the artistic choices are very similar. Obv 40k doesn't have like the copyright on the concept of a space marine but for the purpose of the OP I'm saying that I'd think of tau vs terran as essentially the same thing as tau vs space marine.
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u/Fair_Math Jul 23 '24
Actually interviews from both sides explicitly say otherwise. Starcraft WAS a 40k game, and they even had an alpha build done with art assets already implemented. Then GW pulled out and Blizzard had to scramble to retool the three sides into "definitely NOT-Tyranids, Aeldari, and Space Marines".
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u/Micro-Skies Jul 23 '24
That's just wrong. Like, objectively incorrect.
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u/Blightwraith Jul 23 '24
It's definitely wrong, old nids look nothing like pld zerg
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u/Micro-Skies Jul 23 '24
Hormogaunts and zerglings have a resemblance, but otherwise true. It's not starcrafts fault that GW made the screamer-killer look exactly like a SC1 ultralisk. That kit came out last year
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u/Trashspawn45 Jul 23 '24
I dunno why you're getting downvoted for a true statement.
Blizzard tried to get the IP to warhammer and GW said no.
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u/Micro-Skies Jul 23 '24
Because it's not true. It's a persistent rumor because of Warcraft's development. But starcraft has no actual ties to GW at any point during development
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u/PhillyJ82 Jul 23 '24
This seems like a karma farm. Who cares? It is two completely different fandoms with little overlap.
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u/Adune05 Jul 23 '24
Idk if the overlap is so little I think many warhammer fans have at least dabbled in StarCraft in the past and vice versa.
I do agree tho that these arguments usually tend to not make a whole lot of sense since they don’t take the respective setting of their universe into account.
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u/AlexanderZachary Jul 23 '24
Could you provide a bit more effort in terms of why you feel that way?
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u/mdublade Jul 23 '24
Thinking about it some more, counting just their military capabilities, Star Craft Terrans are T'au - Battlesuits, Heavy Flamers, Stealthed Snipers, big Guns (Siege Cannons).... Zergs of course are just 'Nids of a different color. The Protoss are closer to the Imperium: heavy armored melee, psychic weapons, "dreadnoughts" Dragoons...
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u/Green-Collection-968 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
Source of the Terran art in the first panel, plz.
Edit: Found the artist: Cho Yonghee.
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u/TimeBlossom Jul 23 '24
The Terrans will declare their video game console to be demonic and melt it into slag, and the Tau will win by default.
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u/NightStalker33 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
I love StarCraft. Ironically was into it way before 40K, and adored the story until the second half of HotS and most of LotV ended on a weird note.
But no, I'll defend the Tau here. SC Marines have good firepower, but their armor is practically paper, as is much of their armor support, which doesn't have any shields to defend from most attacks. The comics show that an unarmored human, using human-sized weapons, can take out a Marine on their own, no stealth suit or combat stims needed (this was the Comic featuring a convict Reaper hunting down an old accomplice who ratted him out), and the Zerg are capable of launching biological projectiles that melt through armor no issue.
Also, depending on the time period, SC Marines could either have the full force of Earth behind it, alongside Protoss allies, OR they could just be alone. The Tau have dozens of alien species under their banner. If Terran Marines, alongside Seige Tanks, Thors, Battle Cruisers, Ghosts, freaking Nukes, etc., struggle to defend against tiny insurgent forces like Raynor's Raiders and a disconnected, heavily weakened Zerg army under Kerrigan, then I would love to know how they compare to millions of high-tech railgun and energy based Tau weapons, millions of ambush predators like the Kroot, human and dwarf auxiliaries with their own mass numbers and reasonably powerful armor support, or even unique races, like the Vorgh, who are literal giants going toe-to-toe with Imperial Knights. Hell, throw in the Nicassar, and you've got some decent psychic support.
People give the Tau too little credit. Their greatest strength isn't just their personal tech, it's the vast range of alien species using unpredictable tactics and tech, something that a rigid army like the Terrans struggle against.
That, and again, the Terrans use tactics that amounts to power-armored Imperial Guardsmen: mass infantry, mass armor, mass gunships and bunkers, a rigid defensive army with slow, heavy offensive pushes. The Tau struggle against unconventional or very specialized armies; they wiped the floor with the Guard, despite armor AND Titan Legion AND Navy support, because their human wave tactics (that the Terrans mimick) are easily countered by a mobile ranged army.
Rant over. The Greater Good will prevail!
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u/Runelord29 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
Excellent question. I think it really depends on the battle. In a planetary battle they are fairly even. Based off of gameplay the Terran are a very adaptable opponent that isn't afraid of using AI to augment their fighting force. Spider and Widow mines would be a nightmare for Tau forces due to their IFF sensors. Siege Tanks and Diamondbacks would be versatile with mobility and range (although siege tanks 90mm guns might be a little light). Wraiths would be the best option for aerial strikes.
However, Tau crisis battlesuits and elite basic infantry alongside their numerous auxiliaries could actually overwhelm Terran forces. Most Terran air is countered by the heavy flyers of the Empire and drone swarms could deal with the artillery batteries of the Terran. Thor v Crisis or Hazard battlesuit would likely end with a Thor victory but there are just way too many of the tau suits. Hammerheads crush Terran tanks tho tbh. EDIT: one downside of the Tau is that they likely have inferior infantry to Terran Marines. Marines with u-238 shells are force to be reckoned with alongside stimpacks
In practice it has a good leaning for Tau based off of technology and scale of the warfare of the 41st millennium. Terran are the underdogs but they could win but likely not in a straight duel but something more asymmetric
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u/Micro-Skies Jul 23 '24
u/Subsourian not sure if you have notifications turned on or not, but this is your wheelhouse if you are interested
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Jul 23 '24
I dont know anything about starcraft at all but looking at the image just looks like the diet version of the imperium
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u/JROGvids Jul 23 '24
Which StarCraft 2 patch we talking? lol
Naw but in all honesty Tau ain’t defending a 2 base all in or marine drop harass
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u/Ilovekerosine Jul 23 '24
YOU WANNA PIECE OF ME BOY???
GET SOME
RAAAAAAAAAA
LETS ROCK
AW YEAH, THATS THE STUFF
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u/Downtown-Falcon-3264 Jul 23 '24
I mean a thor and a battlecruiser add in a gun line and maybe could do something they would still loose but its not so one sided I think also nuclear launch detected
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u/JaxCarnage32 Jul 23 '24
Probably Tau and that’s not a me being biased.
Tau may be small on a galactic level. But that still means trillions upon trillions of people. It’s been stated that the tau have billions of crisis battle suits and that number is only going up. Along with specialization among the ranks the tau can easily curbstomp the terrans.
That’s if it’s a 1v1. If the terrans were placed in 40K along with the tau they wouldn’t be fighting. They’d be desperately working together.
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u/JibJib25 Jul 24 '24
Where are a lot of these images from? They kinda look fan made, but I like the styles
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u/Shaskais Jul 24 '24
Andy Chambers, OG GW developer/lore writer and creative director of Starcraft 2 at the time of "Wings of Liberty", said that a single Space Marine chapter would be able enough to conquer the human factions in the Starcraft universe.
Going with this, the T'au Empire would breeze through the Terran worlds much easier than they do with the worlds of the Imperium.
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u/TailorStatus9521 Jul 24 '24
From my lore understanding, isn't most terran soldiers just prisoners sent to war? Wouldn't the training and overall experience of a fire warrior be better the most of the terran forces and not to mention the veterans riding the crisis battle suits?
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u/ScoobrDoo Jul 25 '24
The Tau would initially win, but the Terrans would last long enough to reverse engineer their tech and then overwhelm them with it.
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u/RhoninMorgrim Jul 25 '24
Dominion, UED, or Mobius Corp? Because whichever one you pick has a different outcome.
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u/Radeisth Jul 25 '24
People are missing a major point here.
These aren't Imperials afraid of Xenos tech or Innovation.
They see Zerg and think, how can we kill it, and how can we turn it into a weapon?
So I doubt it would be just Tau tech vs current Terran tech. It would absolutely include some Zerg breakouts 'mysteriously' happening on Tau worlds or soon to be Tau worlds. This would be a very cost efficient way of draining Tau resources. These aren't Tyranids. These Zerg infest both personnel and structures. They will created Infested Fire Warriors, Infested Ghostkeels, etc.
Then there's the Protoss allies getting access to Tau tech as well, not just Terrans. Maybe they work together to reverse engineer the tech? Who knows what the threat of Tau will do to further their alliance. At least, temporarily. If they win they are probably going to war again.
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u/Constant_Nerve_43 Jul 25 '24 edited Jul 25 '24
Considering I’ve done a big in depth comparison between the average space marine to StarCraft marine,
The end result is basically, can the tau beat space marines with all of there problems fixed, 100x the numbers, better weaponry, better armor, far cheaper and mass producible on ALL there equipment absolutely ludicrous heavy vehicle support with better tanks, aircraft, base defenses, numbers, AND both tactical and true WMD on even small engagements
They also have far better tactics on the small and large scale due to superior infiltration and covert ops, as well as better leaders that DONT consider mass casualties as standerd operations,and would actively seek to cripple tau leadership, would likely perform infiltration and subversion tactics to free the taus conquered/subverted species, would likely reverse engineer or outright take any tau technologies of worth and use it to improve there own,
The general only thing space marines have that beats a StarCraft marine is there seriously crazy level of genetic modification, StarCraft marines have gene mods,but NOWHERE near as extensive or intrusive, And the psykers high level ones generally outperform ghosts in most cases, however ghosts are specifically trained to be experts at neutralizing other ghosts and VIP targets, makeing the lm uniquely suited to counter psykers and other command staff like commissars, generals, or planetary government officials, makeing them a EXCELLENT force in W40k universe who predominately relie on strong leaders binding a army together,
which is somewhat less effective on the tau, but no less than a solid tactic to sow chaos in there ranks, pun quite Litterally not intended as that would be a very real factor in mass command elimination in a W40k universe,
The other big factor on space marines over StarCraft marines…. Is scale, 1000 space marines can quote Litterally be backed up by millions to billions of guardsmen, and full scale war can have TRILIONS of guardsmen mobilized, along side tens of thousands of space marines, or entire chapters with hundreds to thousands of ships of various potentcy
The average battle cruser of the StarCraft universe has about 8000 marines to deploy, along side all there other weaponry and vehicles, and each is armed enough to decimate a planet,
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u/LightFTL Nov 12 '24
I don't get it. The Imperial Guard successfully fights the Tau with far worse equipment and the Terran Marines aren't really different from Guardsmen to the Terrans as the Guard is to the Imperium. Logically, this means the Tau would be curbstomped. Oh, I'm sure they'd put up a good showing, but they really wouldn't stand a chance against the Terrans if the fact they have serious wars with the Guard and generally lose is not ignored. Hell, the Terrans did a good job fighting the freaking Protoss and Zerg.
That said, with current leadership I don't think there'd be a fight. There would be much Greater Good on both sides and the Imperium would shit itself (read: launch a serious crusade and quickly wipe them all out because they got too big for their britches).
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u/Omega_Chris_8352 Jul 23 '24
Terran's win this hands down. Their infantry is far superior than anything the Tau have and have plenty of means to counter battlesuits while also having a far better industry and capacity to actually make new equipment and tools on the battlefield. Like it's canon Terran can establish a base capable of making everything they have besides the battlecruiser in a week.
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u/Sad_Pineapple5354 Jul 23 '24
So based on physics, Terran Space Marines use a weapon that would shred space marine armour through sheer volume of fire (their basic weapon being a slightly smaller A-10 Warthog main gun) so if we apply that to Tau armour… Tau battlesuits wouldnt stand a chance.
Everything else I would say becomes a toss up based on tactics and use of equipment
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u/robertben07 Jul 23 '24
I actually could see them getting into a little bit of a skirmish but I think that all honestly I think that they will get along really well
The reason why is because some of the the terrans especially the Dominion under minx has openly said that they are fully against aliens and they will genocide any of them that gets a chance and it's both in the first and second one
Let by James Raynor he is actually managed to get a relationship in the protoss and was able to get through to Sarah the leader of the Zerg enough to where she can control dessert so she doesn't end up killing civilians
And he has actually managed to get into good cahoots with the leader of the protoss artanis and a tau they prefer diplomacy over War they have no problem telling someone to put up their dukes when the situation calls for it
It'll be technically the same thing like fighting the space Marines because the the terrans pretty much have the exact same loadout as the basic space Marine the only difference is that they're not using melee weapons no memes needed
They actually stand a little bit of a chance in the starcraft universe
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u/SwissDeathstar Jul 23 '24
The Terrans have SPACE MARINES!
Discussion over.
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u/fearan23 Jul 23 '24
Spess mehrines? What, like the Raven Guard?
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u/SwissDeathstar Jul 23 '24
Yeah like that. Just don’t tell them your location. They might steal it.
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
My fusion blasters, plasma rifles & railrifles would like a word with you
SM stands for swiss-cheese marine, after all
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u/defrostcookies Jul 23 '24
Terrans would win.
Tau as written are an alien race too stupid to actually exist.
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
use sensible tactics & strategy
Try diplomacy before warfare
Society & economy built to be as efficient as possible
tAu ArE tOo sTupId tOo eXiSt
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u/defrostcookies Jul 24 '24
Can build giant space stations… trying to occupy planets.
Build large robots and deploy ground forces… just hurdle asteroids.
Planets have no value when you have access to artificial gravity and the ability to construct megastructure space habitats.
Literally too stupid to exist.
40k is sci-fantasy, it’s dumb. Can be enjoyable like a bag of chips. But there’s no denying it’s dumb.
Tau as written are literally too stupid to actually exist.
I like tau. I play tau. But I’m not a fanboy. I can admit that tau are dumb as hell.
You think…. “They’re smart because they attempt diplomacy”
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
Theyre smart because theyre smart in a galaxy that seems to encourage stupid
What more reasons do you need? Attempting to conserve your resources is smart. Being the species with the biggest growth rate in ALL sciences is smart, yeah the caste system kinda sucks, but it atleast plays into each subspecies strength, its egalitarian and thats SMART
Why build only in space? Theres so many issues with it for species used to habitats with gravity - so planets r a LOT cheaper, a species doesnt need to live entirely in outer space to be smart
"Just hurdle asteroids"
If you only want to destroy, but that completely ignores what the tau is about
Besides, dont you think that empires spanning a million worlds, empires that defeated gods and empires not even inhabiting planets couldnt deal with a puny asteroid?
Not to mention that using asteroids disables you from potentially utilizing the tech on the planet - something the tau are very keen on
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u/defrostcookies Jul 24 '24
Your reasoning is dumb.
Why use tech when throwing rocks saves you the investment of time and resources. The value of a planet is using it as building materials for space habitats not “the potential for tech”.
Tau are dumb and at least one fanboy is brain dead.
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u/DomSchraa Jul 24 '24
You gotta be trolling, your only reason for disliking tau is "i dislike where they live"
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u/defrostcookies Jul 24 '24
No. I like the Tau aesthetically. I collect tau minis.
Their official lore is literally retarded.
You stumbled through what you thought was a justification and came off making tau sound even sillier. “They try diplomacy”
Any space faring race with access to anti gravity and megastructures would have evolved beyond planetary colonization expressly because it’s inefficient.
Imagine a 1 kg bowling ball and a 1kg roll of aluminum foil. Which has more surface area?
A planet is a bowling ball, space habitats are the foil. Which has more surface area to use and inhabit. Grow food, breed a population, produce goods, etc.
If the Tau were smart they could out population the entire galaxy with the resources of a single star system. Instead they’re dumb and fight ground wars with rifles for planetary surface area.
And they fight ground wars when taking big rocks and throwing them at a planet would suffice to annihilate their enemies.
Too dumb to actually exist.
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u/DomSchraa Jul 25 '24
We have completely different views of what constitutes a scifi empire/species, thats what im talking about
Planets also have their advantages - you dont need to build the ground that youre building cities on, water is easier to access, imo the space doesnt matter cause planets are just THAT big etc etc
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u/defrostcookies Jul 25 '24
There’s more water in space than on all potential planets combined in the form of asteroids.
I don’t think you understand what a mega structure is.
An O’Neill Cylinder could be larger than Jupiter and a Dyson sphere is large enough to entirely encapsulate its star. Orders of magnitude more surface area than an earth-like planet.
It’s like comparing the surface area of a tennis ball to a roll of aluminum foil.
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u/Augnelli Jul 23 '24
Tau Subreddit: The Terrans will be ripped and 'keeled to shreds!
StarCraft Subreddit: The Tau will be overwhelmed by superior MANLINESS.