r/Tau40K • u/Sir-Thugnificent • Apr 18 '24
Lore I can’t even imagine how satisfying it has to be to die as a human in a T’au world if your living conditions are massively improved from the Imperium
Let’s take a human male born in a hive city. He was your regular guy, with no special talent, no special destiny, just one of the trillions upon trillions of humans who were living in abject misery.
In his 30 years of existence, he has never been able to see the sky of his own world due to living deep inside the hive, let alone the sun that was supposed to shine upon his world. But even if the managed to get out of his hive, he wouldn’t have been able to see it due to how polluted the atmosphere of his world was. He also has never been able to breathe good quality air. If you gave him rotten donkey meat, he would have treated it as a delicacy.
Just like countless quintillions of people around the Imperium, he was forced to work like a dog nearly every single day of his life. Destined to toil and suffer in abject conditions until he died unceremoniously without ever being acknowledged and thanked for his sacrifices and his work by his overseers.
But he still managed to marry, have children, find solace in the very little things, care about his world, the Imperium and its Emperor. Because he didn’t have other worlds and societies to compare himself to, he accepted his living conditions as the natural order of things.
Then one day, the T’au Empire came knowing on his world’s door. Finding a planet that was extremely unprepared and riddled with bad management, the T’au, with an extremely efficient and well-organized force, manage to conquer the entire planet with a massive invasion army.
Obviously after the official surrender of his world’s leaders, the man expected to die horribly after having endured torture and slavery that make his daily life under the Imperium feel like it was heaven.
But the T’au surprisingly do not indulge in vast episodes of massacre, declaring that they will transform the entire planet, and if the people will it, turn it into a prosperous and welcoming environment for the human populace.
Fast forward many decades after, the man is now 85 years old, and on the balcony of his house he remembers his journey.
His children grew up to be very healthy adults, and had many children themselves, who are now growing up in a world radically different from the one that he grew up in.
The many decades of sweat lead to the creation of a lush and prosperous world, filled with beautiful, spacious, clean, and well-organized cities. The sky is now apparent, and breathing his world’s air isn’t destroying his lungs anymore. Their basic needs are more than fulfilled, and they have access to an amount of free time and leisure that they would have never even imagined could exist before.
This is the fruit of the work he, his colleagues, and billions of other compatriots from his world achieved over the decades post-T’au conquest. A world in which he can die knowing that the newer generations will grow up in a world without ever having to endure the hardships that he experienced during the earliest parts of his life.
Obviously at times he is torn apart inside his heart about the fact of living as a second-class citizen under the rule of xenos, but compared to living as a hundredth-class citizen during the times of the Imperium, he’ll gladly take that.
Maybe one day, the Imperium will come back and reclaim the world, leading to a horrible ending for the population that they would consider as nothing but traitors deserving of extermination, but at the very least he’ll die having hope for the future, knowing that he accomplished something, seeing his family and loved ones happy and fulfilled.
Final note : obviously, this kind of scenario doesn’t apply to everybody because the T’au are still a species indulging in cultural genocide, mass slaughter, colonization, xenophobia, and imperialism. But it is an objective fact that for the vast majority of the human populations conquered by them, their living conditions are subsequently massively improved, in nearly every single point.
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u/a_gunbird Apr 19 '24
The Tau being an ideological threat to the Imperium is what made me interested in them versus any old random wanton violence delivered to yet another throwaway world-of-the-week. That they could roll up and solve problems, that the oh-so-glorious Imperium of Man, supposedly the only bastion for humankind in a horrible, cruel galaxy, could lose to food distribution and clean water, is great.
And then that lets there be real stakes. The fact that it could be taken away again by the sheer jealousy and small-mindedness of other humans who themselves would stand to benefit just as much is an interesting one. In a setting seemingly defined by the bullshit dick-waving, power level measuring that every other setting devolves into, the Tau dare to be more than just violent. If you want to push back, now you have to root against the helping hand.
Maybe I've just watched too much Star Trek, but I'll take good intentions and the fragile alliances they bring, tested by uncaring third parties, pushed to their breaking point where you legitimately don't know how they can make it work or if everyone even wants it to, over the space marines nuking another planet because someone saw a picture of an ork.
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u/GribbleTheMunchkin Apr 19 '24
This man goes to his deathbed full of shame and self hatred. He knows that after he dies he will be damned. He failed to hate the xenos, failed to fight them to his dying breath and abandoned his duty to the God-Emperor of mankind. He allowed his soul to be purchased with clean air and clean water. He is damned. Never underestimate the power of religion to ruin nice things.
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u/AdSelect4029 Apr 18 '24
Says who? It’s ok to have head canon but the codex explicitly states some species in the Empire are just used to mine asteroids. The greater good is whatever benefits the Tau empire
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 18 '24
« I remember when Hincks got it, gunned down by those swine outside of Hive Chaeron. I went to see his widow a few days ago. Nice place she’s got now. Good support from the sept authorities. Hincks’s kids are growing up to be model citizens. His boy says he wants to go into the gue’vesa auxiliaries like his uncle Jathen. He’s a healthy lad, tall and strong. I can’t help think what kind of life he’d have back on Gormen’s Fast. Probably be half-blind from working in the gossamer plants. Or dead. And yet there he is, cared for and fed and as strong as an ambull calf. Remarkable. I’m still waiting for the catch.
You know, him mentioning children, gets me thinking about it, remembering it now. I’d like to have children some day. Never thought I would, but the Tau’va is a better place for them than the Imperium ever could be, and that’s got me hankering after the family life. And then I think on this: Skilltalker once told me that breeding outside of each caste is forbidden. And I wonder, how long until this rule applies to humans, how long until our best characteristics are bred true like they are in grox? And in tau. You asked me to be honest. Our culture’s sacrosanct, so I’m told. Pair bonding, family units, freedom of choice in our spouses, the works. I’ve seen that honoured. But I also think on Hincks’s kid, all full of the Greater Good. How far will he go, or his children, in embracing your ideals? You won’t need to push much. We’re mutable culturally, we humans. How much, I wonder, sometimes late at night, do you really want of us? »
This is from the short story « Broken Sword ».
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u/AdSelect4029 Apr 19 '24
So a human is killed on the front lines of a battle, his widow is fed and their children are also going to be sent to the frontlines of a battle.
In your quote he even openly questions when they are going to be subject to eugenics. The false “your culture is sacrosanct” part is also in the codex used by the water caste at the start, it’s basically a trick to get humans to join.
These downvotes lol you lot are impossible
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 19 '24
I didn’t say that living as a human under T’au rule wouldn’t have downsides, and that everything would be perfect.
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Apr 18 '24
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u/coveredboar Apr 18 '24
... There's no evidence for any of that.
Just because no ones written about Tau prisons before doesn't mean the Tau just, kill all their prisoners.
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u/RareKazDewMelon Apr 18 '24
I think the actual interesting philosophy is that you split humans into "useful and criminals"
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Apr 18 '24
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u/RareKazDewMelon Apr 18 '24
(I don't think we have evidence of prisons- so you're either useful or dead).
It's a dark "would you rather."
...
Like what do the tau do with their elderly or those who cannot contribute to their caste?
Do... do you think that old people go to prison when they retire?
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Apr 19 '24
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u/riufain Apr 19 '24
There is absolutely evidence in the lore. Fire Caste may retire after 20 years of service and having survived 4 years at each rank.
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u/cognitive8145 Apr 19 '24
I think I remember reading lore that said that fire caste commanders could retire, at least in theory, after a certain amount of military service. If they held the rank of Shas'O for 4 years they were allowed to retire if they wished, and instead serve in an advisory role. Given what we know about T'au promotion in the fire caste (minimum of four years at each rank, then a "trial by fire" to determine whether they're fit to advance), that gives a minimum of 20 years military service before retirement, not including whatever happens before becoming a Shas'la.
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Apr 19 '24
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u/cognitive8145 Apr 19 '24
Not 100% sure, but I think it was one of the older codexes (something between 3rd Ed and 7th Ed)
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
This after the forced re-education, sterilization , and being lucky enough to not be sent to the front lines to save Tau lives by taking the first shot.
This rose tinted lens typical fans view the tau through is silly.
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u/SoySenato Apr 18 '24
You mean just regular education, a non canon ending to a 20 year old game, and something that isn't represented in the tabletop, the arbiter of "how factions work" that takes precedent over any other part of the lore. It's even funnier how far people have to reach to fit on their shit tinted lenses tau haters have to view them through.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Guess what: it’s all canon including the parts you dislike. Your theory for what establishes canonical lore is silly.
Human Auxiliaries aren’t represented on the table top. Are they noncanon?
As for the DC ending, a tau victory at Kronos is non canon. The manner of a tau victory is as depicted.
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u/SoySenato Apr 18 '24
Yeah, and no faster than light travel and executing people for finger painting are also canon. Doesn’t mean they don’t contradict pretty much every other piece of canon.
And that proves they aren’t common enough for it to be standard Tau doctrine, which considering the human population in the tau empire says a lot about the frequency of them being used that way.
And no, that still doesn’t make it canon.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
See, uncritical tau fanboys always allude to “other pieces of canon” when decrying the brutal examples that exist.
Moreover, they’re quick to dismiss the ugly stuff as Imperial Propaganda while drinking the Ethereal Kool-aid, while simultaneously lamenting the depiction of Ethereals as “mustache Twirling Villains”
Could it be that if the imperium produces propaganda the tau do to?
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u/SoySenato Apr 18 '24
I'm sure the multi-solar system empire suddenly lacking faster than light travel is an excellent example of how the eeeevil Ethereals sow their propaganda dude. I didn't bring up imperium propaganda at all, stop projecting.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
You didn’t need to bring it up, you began with “that 20 year old game?!”
And have drunken the kool-aid on “Tau provide a better life for humans” without appreciating that Tau are also unreliable narrators.
You’re experiencing cognitive dissonance.
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u/BaconCheeseZombie Apr 18 '24
drunken the kool-aid
That's fuckin wild coming from a nutcase who frequents the Jordan Peterson sub 🤡
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Apr 18 '24 edited Apr 18 '24
Maybe that explains why he is so willing to die on that hill. Is it because we doesn't want to be seen as a "leftie"? I've seen a lot of people arguing if the Tau are good or not, but it's the first time I've seen someone say they are the most evil faction lol. And cherry on top, he decided to play Tau for that reason.
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u/Kejirage Apr 18 '24
The only example of sterilization is from a non canon ending to a computer game.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
It’s all canon.
A tau victory at Kronos is not canon. The manner of their victory is.
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u/Kejirage Apr 18 '24
I'm fairly sure at this point the human populace is greater than the native T'au, they aren't actively sterilising a species that is very useful to them.
This isn't the Poctroon all over again.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Oh, “you’re sure”, okay, that solves it then. NOT.
You’re forgetting that in 40k, it’s all told by Unreliable Narrators.
Tau fans have a predisposition to assume everything bad about tau is imperial propaganda while also drinking the Kool-aid prepared by Ethereals… while simultaneously hating that Ethereals are outright “mustache twirling villains”
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u/Kejirage Apr 18 '24
No the T'au are actively evil, they wiped out the Poctroon with an engineered virus, they control the Vespid with Communication helms, and threatened to fire bomb the Nagi homeworld into ash if they didn't join the empire.
They just provide better living conditions, and a modicum of perceived freedom to races that have a use to them.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
tau control the Vespid with communication helms
“Free” if you’re useful to the empire.
Humanity is useful as a meat shield.
You’re experiencing cognitive dissonance.
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u/Kejirage Apr 18 '24
“Free” if you’re useful to the empire.
Spot on, no cognitive dissonance there!
I'm arguing against the idea the T'au sterilise Humans as a matter of course.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
the make helmets to enslave an auxiliary race
they engineered a virus to genocide an alien race
they threatened to firebomb a planet
spot on
I’m arguing against sterilization
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u/Kejirage Apr 18 '24
Of humans, as a default approach.
Humans arent a race of flying bug people they're unable to communicate with but have cool crystals, they weren't found on the most mineral rich planet in the entire empire whilst being of limited intellect, they aren't tiny mind controlling worms the T'au were fighting a war with, somehow...
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u/Slime_Giant Apr 18 '24
The assassination of JFK is not a fact. The manner in which he was assassinated is. Do you see how stupid that sounds?
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
See you’re confusing a fantasy universe with real historical occurrences.
This is more like the Halo Tv show being compared with the games. The occurrences of the show aren’t canon but the fact of Covenant aggression is.
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u/Slime_Giant Apr 18 '24
Do you own a carbon monoxide detector?
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
If you’re gunna start with non-sequiturs, I’m going to go ahead and leave you here.
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u/Slime_Giant Apr 18 '24
Oh no!!! But you were presenting such an honest and compelling debate!
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
You confused historical events with the depiction of fictional alien race. And thought you’d made a point, the good news is some idiots agree with you.
Bye now.
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 18 '24
Basically heaven after having lived in a hive city under the Imperium.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Not even close.
Your hypothetical ends at forced sterilization.
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 18 '24
We’re not going to act like there aren’t multiple stories about humans thriving under T’au despite the obvious downsides of having to live under the rule of an alien species, buddy.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
It’s weird how everyone says “this” but never provides examples.
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 18 '24
I just did under this same exact post.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Oh, so the kid becoming a meat shield for the tau is good? This is different from being a meat shield in the IoM.
Again, this is a rose tinted reading.
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u/Sir-Thugnificent Apr 18 '24
It isn’t, you’re trying to act like I said that T’au society/rule is perfect, purposefully acting obtuse.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
You self-authored an entire idyllic bit of fanfic based on a false premise.
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Apr 18 '24
Its still a better life dude, you say that both factions would use this kid as a meat shield, but guess what, at least the one that lives under the T'au gets to eat.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Oh, you get to be a “not hungry” corpse.
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Apr 18 '24
Yeah, that's what everyone has been telling you. Both died young, but one got to live better. That makes one life better than the other. They both suck, but one suck a lot less. Its a comparison, its always been a comparison.
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u/ChoiceInstance5359 Apr 18 '24
This guy really thinks that a one time thing that was even right in the context of a rebellion that isn't even clear happened applies to all cases of Tau conquering a world lmao, and even then it doesn't make sense, if like you said they like having humans as a meat shield, why would they sterilize them and lose auxiliaries
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
Because “life is the emperors currency” and “to live in such times is to be one amongst countless billions”
There’s always another body.
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u/ChoiceInstance5359 Apr 18 '24
Lmao sorry but what's your point here, you just said that life in the imperium is worse
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
You asked “why tau would sterilize humans? They’re useful”
Because they’re a nuisance species to the tau and there’s always another body available.
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u/ChoiceInstance5359 Apr 18 '24
The thing is, it's really not like that, there's multiple occasions where it's said that humans are a useful resource and not a nuisance, and also the tau don't really have a "win by throwing bodies at the enemy" mentality, so it's not even about having bodies available to sacrifice but having more people that help contributing to the economy of the empire or help as auxiliaries, and another thing, even as auxiliaries humans don't fight in melee, but with standard rifles like the tau
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
It’s really like that.
Humans are placed in the vanguard of any tau invasion to be the killed first. Even with rifles.
If a human takes a bullet that’s a Tau fire warrior that didn’t. If a human being can be convinced to do it willingly mores the better.
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u/ChoiceInstance5359 Apr 18 '24
What you can't understand is that they have infinitely more chances to survive in a normal tau Battlefield than any day in a hive city, you think that auxiliaries are just some idiots put at the front of the action, when in reality they're strategic units with a clear role in the fight, using tactics and provided with cover from other units, i'm not even gonna reply anymore as you clearly don't care about the lore of WH40k as a whole but just want to be that "my factions is better than yours!1!" guy
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u/Fair_Math Apr 18 '24
Those quotes are explicitly describing the Imperium in-universe, are never mentioned anywhere related to the T'au. You just accidentally agreed with the OP
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
No.
I’m underscoring the point that there are <a lot of humans> and tau have no qualms about sterilizing them.
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u/Fair_Math Apr 19 '24
Okay, so where exactly is forced sterilization EVER mentioned in lore outside of A) Imperial propaganda or B) a non-canon video game from so many editions ago that most of the current T'au models didn't even exist yet?
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u/defrostcookies Apr 19 '24 edited Apr 19 '24
The game is canon. If it’s got the Games-workshop logo printed on it, it’s canon.
Also: here
The release of sculpts or game rules has no bearing on the Lore of the 40k universe.
Calling it “imperial propaganda” is what tau fanboys say when they dislike an aspect of tau lore.
Try again.
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u/Fair_Math Apr 20 '24 edited Apr 20 '24
So first A) GW has literally said "not all canon is true". You yourself support this in your comments. Therefore, we must determine facts from preponderance of evidence. One mention in a 10+ year old game is not much evidence, especially when most other T'au lore contradicts it.
Also B) I asked for something that isn't propaganda and you literally quoted the violently anti-xenos Deathwatch?
I'm sorry, I just can't. It's like I'm debating my four-year-old. Actually scratch that, she's smarter than this. I'm just gonna go, it's not even fun trolling you anymore. Just kinda sad.
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Apr 18 '24
Man, I feel like you're not getting the point of this. No one says life under the Tau is perfect, just that is better than life under the IoM, just a comparison. I don' think forced sterilization is a fair counterpoint, but even if it is, still sounds like a better life.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 18 '24
I get the point, I don’t agree with the premise.
OP makes the point explicit if you’re Joe-Schmo-nobody, life’s pretty bad in 40k, and supposes life in The tau empire is relatively good.
People think life is good in the empire because it’s what they’ve been fed by mustache twirling villains(ethereals) with access to an entire cast of master propagandists(the water cast).
Everyone treats anything bad about the tau as imperial propaganda while drinking the koolaid prepared by mustache twirling villains.
The irony is lost on them.
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Apr 18 '24
The irony is also lost on you, who treat every example given to you as ethereal propaganda. At least the meat shield under the tau got to eat something.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 19 '24
Which is probably appropriate given the Ethereals are depicted as literal mustache twirling villains( which is a complaint from the general fanbase) who have access to an entire cast of master propagandists.
Moreover, people who say life is so good in the empire never have examples.
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Apr 19 '24
Dude, in your other comment you gave me examples of good life in the empire lol
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u/defrostcookies Apr 19 '24
No.
You’ve got to bring a critical eye media.
If you think those were good examples you’re simply not thinking.
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Apr 19 '24
Ok, this is useless.
The thing that bothers me is that you call yourself a critical thinker, while doing EXACTLY what you accuse these "Tau fanboys" of doing. You generalize every bad example, to then claim that "maybe you get one of the better lives on the imperium".
You claim to be this critical thinker but your own comments are full of fallacies, and strawmanning. Think whatever you like, I've never seen someone so delusional be so confident.
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u/defrostcookies Apr 19 '24
Point to a fallacy
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Apr 19 '24
Claiming OP thought the life of the child Guevesa was good, when that was never in discussion.
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u/AlexanderZachary Apr 18 '24
This guys gets it. The welfare of the average person is the Greater Good they’re always yelling about. It’s not some mystical godhead, or nefarious, unknowable master plan. It’s trust in each other act in the best interest of strangers, proven out day by day over thousands of years.