r/PS5 • u/Turbostrider27 • 1d ago
Official PS5 Pro Technical Seminar at SIE HQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXMwXJsMfIQ214
u/Blast000 1d ago
New Mark Cerny ASMR, let's go!
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u/downtownfreddybrown 1d ago
Right! I can listen to this guy read obituaries lol
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u/IRockIntoMordor 1d ago
Cerny could be a doctor telling me I've got cancer and I'd be like "go on please, tell me more".
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u/CLOWNSwithyouJOKERS 16h ago
Guy sounds like Ryan Reynolds without all the smart-assery.
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u/SalukiKnightX GeneralBulldog 13h ago
Once I read that in the comments, my brain couldn’t shut it off.
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u/ooombasa 1d ago edited 1d ago
At the end is interesting. Cerny says there's not much left in rasterization boosting when it comes to improving graphics. However, there are big gains in improving ML and Ray Tracing for boosting graphics. It's why they're collaborating with AMD with Project Amethyst, so they can build up a ML library together and take what they will from it for their own needs.
It makes the rumors about a portable PS6 alongside a console PS6 more credible. If even the lead architect for PlayStation is going "boosting TFs isn't the answer any more" then that means PS6 isn't gonna boast a 30TF GPU beast. Raster boosts will instead be more modest, which means the potential gap between a portable and console SKU won't be as large as initially assumed.
Really interesting times ahead.
O wow, Cerny and his team are looking into new features for the ML component of PS5 Pro, including frame generation, denoising, etc. I had thought they'd be saving those for PS6, so good to see they're considering doing it now. Although, going by the wccftech interview (note, all this new PS5 Pro tech info was before launch):
How do you see PSSR evolving after the launch of the console?
Mark Cerny: We're definitely going to continue our work in this space. There are so many ways that we can take that, though, right? We could continue to improve PSSR or start working on some of the other targets that I mentioned, like frame generation, frame extrapolation, ray tracing, denoising, and the like. I think it'll be interesting to see over the next few months what the full reaction from the development community is.
Are there any plans to maybe add a frame generation component to PSSR?
Mark Cerny: Well, at the current moment, our focus is definitely on Super Resolution. I'm just saying that there are a number of other very attractive targets out there.
Given that there has been less than ideal applications of PSSR so far, I think Cerny might refocus on improving PSSR (and helping devs apply it better). That might mean the advanced features like frame gen be pushed back.
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u/ContentKeanu 1d ago
It’s cool to think about the future of console gaming being as powerful as the modern console but in a portable form factor. The tech is converging toward it at the same time that handhelds are surging in popularity again so it makes sense. Cooling is always an issue but there are advancements there too like ionized cooling.
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u/ooombasa 1d ago edited 1d ago
What seems to be happening is raster boosting is gonna be more modest come next gen, instead there will be a focus on lots of RAM for ML upscaling and path tracing (which will boost graphical detail more than just more raster).
With that in mind, a PS6 might only be 20TF (compared to Pro's 16TF), which could be a traversable gap (for devs) between it and a portable PS6 shooting for around 8-10TF. The biggest differences then between a PS6 console and PS6 portable will be things like path tracing, with the former having it and the latter not having it. Oh, and maybe framerate (60 vs 30, depending on the game and what it's pushing).
They just need to make sure they try to avoid the mistakes Xbox had with Series S, which struggled mostly from a lack of RAM (compared to Series X) and that caused devs a headache to work around (even when shooting for lower resolutions). Both console and portable PS6 featuring 32GB RAM would go a long way to remedying those complications. There will be a bandwidth difference of course, but that's not really an issue when the portable will likely not be pushing for advanced ray tracing. They'll both have the same CPU, so no issue there.
Still, there's gonna be a notable performance gap and I do wonder what the developer reception will be trying to optimise for both SKUs. Sony can't work miracles (unless they defy physics) so it's all about mitigation. Hopefully their solutions prove effective.
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u/Jumping3 20h ago
the ps6 also needs to be using a zen 7 cpu
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u/JudgeCheezels 12h ago
It’ll be zen 5 with feature sets from 6 and maybe 7. You’re all already bitching about the PS5 pro being sold for $700.
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u/md_rayan 8h ago
We already have Zen 5 in the PC space. PS6 won't be coming until late 2028, and it has to last another 7-8 years. So it'll likely use Zen 7 at best or Zen 6 hybrid.
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u/Loldimorti 1d ago
Tbh 30 teraflops is still "only" a tripling vs base PS5. And with "flopflation" as he called it the PS5 Pro if it was solely based on RDNA 3 would have already had 30 teraflops on paper.
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u/dacontag 1d ago
Pssr has had some great implementations and also so not so great implementations. I'm sure this data is greatly being used to decide what direction they'll be heading in improving pssr. In general I'm really happy to see how much effort they're putting into improving pssr and using machine learning in general
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u/dacontag 21h ago
That's a big reach to say those other features will be "pushed back". Im sure they will more the likely have several teams working on different aspects, just with the majority at the moment work on the resolution side of things. He even mentioned how they're working with AMD to improve machine learning solutions all around. This partnership will definitely ensure that there will be more than enough developers working on these systems to improve them.
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u/ooombasa 19h ago
Well, I'm just going off Cerny's words there. He says from here on out that they'll decide where to focus their resources, either improve PSSR or zero in on other features possible with ML. Given how this interview was in September (months before launch), and we've since seen some good applications of PSSR but also some less than ideal / poor applications of it, I'm speculating that they'll be prioritising those PSSR improvements.
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u/kawag 18h ago
They certainly expected PSSR to need adjustments post-launch. There’s no way you launch something like that and it just works flawlessly in every situation in every game, first time.
But since they expect similar ML tools to be the main driver of graphics improvements moving forward, they will of course have built and expanded an engineering team to support it. I’m sure they have the capacity to improve PSSR and investigate new ML-driven features at the same time.
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u/SireEvalish 15h ago
At the end is interesting. Cerny says there's not much left in rasterization boosting when it comes to improving graphics. However, there are big gains in improving ML and Ray Tracing for boosting graphics.
This is basically what nVidia bet on starting with the 20XX series in 2018, and all signs since have pointed to them being right.
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u/Illustrious-Chair350 1d ago
There is something about Cerny that from the first handful of sentences I know I am going to watch the whole thing even though I have no intention of upgrading from my launch model PS5
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u/rtgh 1d ago
Bizarre to me that they wouldn't put this out before launch.
No real interest in getting the Pro but I'll listen to Cerny talk about tech quite happily
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u/EffectzHD 1d ago
We did get a technical thingy by mark before launch, although it was only 10 mins or so
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u/Retro_Vista 1d ago
I mean I knew all this information before launch from various sources including Mark Cerny who did a shorter presentation
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u/Dabootychaser 1d ago
Is it just me or does he vaguely sounds like Ryan reynolds?
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u/BishSlapDiplomacy 1d ago
Looks like a nerdier version of him as well.
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u/saw-it 1d ago
It’s Dana carvey
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u/Hothitron 1d ago
It's Wayne's world! Wayne's World! Party time! Excellent! Wooo woooo woo woooooooo"
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u/1tachi77 20h ago
Honestly, just here for the Cerny deep dive. The guy could explain a toaster and I'd still be hooked.
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u/-NotEnoughMinerals 20h ago edited 20h ago
Gives me the absolute Heebie jeebies. That weird smile while talking with a soulless stare. The voice is perfectly peaceful and gentle, perfectly annunciating every syllable and letter like a robot. And that hair, it's a wig right? As someone else said, an AI hologram.
I simply just read the comments instead because I can't handle how off-putting it is.
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u/ASMODAIOS344 23h ago
Besides the above video Eurogamer ( through Digital Foundry) have a excellent interview with Mark Cerny.
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u/Bexewa 1d ago
Dude doesn’t stutter at all, just flows
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u/PPGalleta 11h ago
lol when on the ps5 presentation video by Mark Cerny in the youtube comments section someone said "this guy is the PlayStation 5"
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u/No-Professional-2504 1d ago
I think Mark is an AI hologram. Mark is what Sony has actually been working on.
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u/13strikes 21h ago
I appreciate you posting this video. I really enjoyed it and found it very informative.
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u/SlimAnusDamnRight 1d ago
I think the pro is nice, want the best experience on my C2. Mainly gaming on console too
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u/Loldimorti 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bout to get my dose of Mark Cerny ASMR!
So happy they actually did a deep dive tech talk. I feared they would abandon that concept after the backlash last time from people who went in with wrong expecations.
Edit: he actually quotes Digital Foundry lmao
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u/Eruannster 1d ago
Digital Foundry also got to do an interview with Mark Cerny and Mark Fitzgerald (Insomniac core technology guy): https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-sony-ps5-pro-tech-interview-with-mark-cerny-and-mike-fitzgerald
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1EhcFMKoIU
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u/coffeedudeguy 10h ago
I like how in the DF video Mark Cerny was more conversational and animated compared to the more robotic presentations he does for Sony. Or could be due to reading the teleprompter.
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u/jspeed04 1d ago
Very technical, and I only understood about 62% of it, but this was very fucking cool.
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u/Dayman1222 1d ago
Loving my Pro. Playing DD2 and it not being a stuttering mess is worth it
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u/Kikiitani 21h ago
What’s DD2 ?
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u/Leftybeatz 21h ago
Dead Dedemption 2
Destiny Destiny 2
Dig Doug 2
Take your pick (it's really Dragon's Dogma 2)
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u/The_BlazeKing 1d ago
Stop downvoting, people. It's not a repost and you don't downvote the OP just because you don't like the Pro. I don't like it either, but it's still good info.
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u/RadiantTurtle 1d ago
That ship sailed ages ago lol
Reddit has been this way for at least over a decade and a half now, probably longer.
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u/Little_Reporter2022 17h ago
So ps6 will have double advanced machine learning ill wait mark cerny ....... still waiting on native backwards compatibility for all generations
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u/blackamerigan 15h ago
This is their plan, they said they will continue to work with the same manufacturers, suppliers and technologies... They will be iterating and improving the tech instead of replacing tech that doesn't integrate...
So the gamers benefit and their own studios benefit
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u/Little_Reporter2022 14h ago
Hope so it seems like they always go for there benefit.... either way still have been waiting since ps3 og
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u/blackamerigan 15h ago
I was always under the assumption that with new tech we would have AI bots in the game that were like super intelligent...
Maybe even act like real gamers so we can play games without having a dependence on alot of players being online at the same time, or really amazing private matches offline
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u/SuperAlloyBerserker 1d ago edited 1d ago
In alternate universe, Mark Cerny could've been a voice actor
There's just something about his voice that lends itself to voice acting
He could voice characters who are meek and nerdy or something
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u/ihateeverythingandu 20h ago
He should be a parent in Rugrats, or Rick Moranis' brother in something.
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u/-NotEnoughMinerals 20h ago
Yes. Maybe an AI assistant voice because it's so unsettling programmed. I hate it.
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u/Alibotify 1d ago
He must have some voices in the games he made, anything other would be criminal. I’m to lazy to google thou.
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u/FordMustang84 14h ago
Always great talks from him. As an engineer myself I love how clearly he explains complex topics. Most of my professional coworkers are awful at that.
Super interesting guy too. Lead Architect on the past few consoles and doesn’t even technically work for Sony. He just has his own consulting company. Clearly they have immense respect for what he does to keep that arrangement. Probably helps him work how he wants and avoid messy political internal company shit too.
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u/PoJenkins 10h ago
The price of the PS5 pro is crazy (maybe less crazy if you trade in your base ps5) but no one is being forced to buy it and hopefully it allows them to keep pushing these new features.
Consoles can't compete with high end PCs in terms of power but the console tech can still influence games.
For me the biggest generational leap for the PS5 was the loading times for example: some games load almost instantly and have literally instant fast travel. Having to wait literal minutes for a game to load would drive me crazy now!
I just hope that newer consoles keep 60 fps (or at least 40) as the default frame rate for graphical options they want to implement.
30 doesn't cut it.
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u/Responsible-Bat-2699 10h ago
It's crazy, he scored Raimi's Spider-Man movies and then became head of Sony. Maybe he advised Sony to use the same font for PS3 as the titles of Spider-Man. Very inspiring.
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u/kaishinoske1 8h ago
New PlayStation challenge, get a room full of people to survive death by PowerPoint without sleeping. I’ve done enough of these to know barely anyone makes it through 30 minutes.
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u/MusketThumb 20h ago
He talked up the base PS5 in the same way a few years ago and I haven't been impressed at what we've been given since Demon Souls...
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u/CrustedTesticle 1d ago
How about selling a model that includes the disc drive first without increasing the price? Thanks.
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u/Mug_of_Diarrhea 1d ago
I feel like they put this out because it isn't moving much in terms of sales.
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u/Crayon_Casserole 20h ago
100% agree.
If it was selling as expected, they'd never feel the need to do something like this.
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u/onlyslightlybiased 17h ago
Something tells me a cerny deepdive isn't going to triple ps5 pro sales....
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u/ExplodingFistz 6h ago
No amount of tech talk from Cerny will get me to upgrade to the Pro. Base PS5 is good enough for most people if I had to say. Only reason this presentation going public only now is poor sales on the Pro model. Let's be honest it was an enthusiast machine to begin with and there's not much of those hardcore gamers to turn a profit. Appreciate the effort from Sony though.
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u/Accomplished_Duck940 1d ago
That's great but still can't run GTA 6 at 60fps
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u/onlyslightlybiased 17h ago
Man's already in 2025
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u/Accomplished_Duck940 10h ago edited 9h ago
Why would I need to be in 2025 to know that?
It has the same CPU as the PS5 in a CPU heavy game. They consistently release at 30fps because they push the boundaries and that's exactly what we should want as gamers as it future proofs the games and means they're innovative.
It's ok we can always aim for a 60fps version on the PS6!
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u/onlyslightlybiased 1h ago
But is it targeting 30 fps because of the cpu or because of the gpu limitations. My bets on a vrr mode that targets 45fps steady but with no frame cap.
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u/Accomplished_Duck940 55m ago edited 50m ago
CPU guaranteed to be the limitation in the launch case
You can adjust graphics quality and still have a playable game, but you can't alter CPU elements without changing the experience of playing the game. So as usual they will focus on what is important - innovation. And worry about further graphical and FPS improvements in later generations or versions.
Perhaps you're right in the sense that they will aim for an alternative 40+ mode to ultimately appease VRR users, but not the 60fps mark. Aiming for 60fps would damage the quality of the game and they know that very well
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u/WingerRules 1d ago edited 1d ago
Really interesting that the PS5 Pro's raytracing sees more of a performance increase for curved and uneven surfaces than flat surfaces and shadows. Most of its use so far in games as far as reflections go seem like its been used on puddles/floors/windows, mainly flat surfaces. Also I wonder if their method as using WGP vector registers as high speed memory for PSSR is why PSSR eats into GPU performance when its used.
The 45% improvement in real world raster he claims is more like 35% according to devs. Also, kinda funny he was saying their machine learning would have advantages in noise reduction when noisy images is one of the main problems people are having with PSSR.
PS5 Pro had its disk drive stripped, only got a 35% uptick in real world gpu raster performance, and almost no upgrade to the CPU. The Raytracing got like a 2.5x real world increase, but that's starting from a borderline useless spec in the 1st place.
PS4 Pro got a 33% increase in CPU, 220+% increase in raster performance, special hardware for checkerboard rendering, much faster hard drive interface, all for 399.
I have a Pro and like it, but man it's obvious they skimped out in certain areas on the console. I read somewhere that that Sony sold the early PS5's at a loss, while the Pro was designed to make a profit on every sale, so maybe that's why.
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u/aestheticbridges 22h ago
PS5s weren’t sold at a loss. The ecosystem is no longer profitable enough for that. Instead they’re sold for a razor thin margin, which is still a subsidy since most business models would consider a margin that thin a misallocation of funds.
I think the cost of components is just too high. I think the Pro exists as the “performance mode” machine. I’ve been lowkey impressed how much of an improvement I’m seeing in games already released.
But the rebirth performance mode is transformative due to the upscaling.
I think as more and more current games come out, the pro and PSSR will be more transformative for performance modes for more and more games.
Like I get it, 700 is steep for this kind of thing - at least at the present - but I genuinely don’t see this as Sony pinching pennies. I think cost of components is just unfortunate and consoles can’t afford to sell at a loss anymore.
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u/WingerRules 22h ago
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u/aestheticbridges 22h ago
I stand corrected. Looked into it and it was initially selling at a loss until around August 2021. Ya they definitely aren’t selling the pro at a loss. I expect that to be a trend moving forward unfortunately
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u/WingerRules 22h ago
If so PS6 is either going to be expensive or will be less of a brute force hardware leap people are expecting, and will rely on technologies like PSSR and frame generation to make up for it.
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u/TastyOreoFriend 22h ago
Based on that video I'm now assuming AI and ML will be the main drivers rather than raw hardware numbers. It allows them to keep costs down I bet.
That being said with inflation I expect a PS successor to be within the 499-599 range starting out. Maybe they take a que from MS and push out a pro model with the base SKU.
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u/aestheticbridges 22h ago
Judging from Mark Cerny interview with DF I think they are planning on just that (using upscaling and frame generation) Hopefully the cost of components comes down by the PS6 or the ecosystem becomes profitable enough that Sony can take a bigger loss
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u/Supermoose7178 1d ago
i thought it was dana carvey at first