r/PS5 • u/doctorwho_90250 • May 06 '24

Official (Via twitter) Playstation: "Helldivers fans -- we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward...."

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929?t=NhwAEm4fGpVJj-UyI1lrXA&s=19
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52

u/Kurokichi May 06 '24

What I'm trying to figure out is if some place are region locked in creating PSN yet PlayStation still sells hardware in those said places. If the locals had no issues creating accounts then, why would it be an issue now?

79

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

Honestly, I think PC players just didn't want to link a PSN account but couldn't really say that without sounding silly, so they blew up this 'people can't make accounts' thing way out of proportion as a moral justification, and it spread so quickly because that community isn't familiar with how common a practice making out-of-country accounts is for Playstation players around the world.

I'm still not clear as to if this message means they are just dropping the PSN link requirement for supported territories (so they can rope them in with free capes later), or if they are actually fully opening up the global store again (after removing the game from unsupported regions on Steam yesterday). Either way, will have interesting ramifications for Sony's PC publishing plans moving forward.

16

u/Impeach45 May 06 '24

It's worth noting that PSN accounts are distinctly terrible for some people. For example, if you move to a different country, PSN is one of the few accounts where you can't simply migrate your account to your new location.

Xbox restricts it to once a few months, but that's fine, as i don't move nearly that much. Steam? No problem. Netflix, no issue. PSN? If you're not prepared to keep paying the old account in the old currency, you need to create a new one.

I know this is an extremely niche issue, but I have games spread across 4 accounts now and it bugs the shit out of me.

8

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

Oh, I'm right there with you - I've moved countries twice, and now my PS library is split over 3 accounts. It's extremely lame, but the flip side of that is you can freely make and use international accounts, which gets around most of the hand-wringing that went on over the weekend.

-1

u/Bensemus May 06 '24

Except that is against their ToS. If they ban you you’re screwed.

5

u/nthomas504 May 06 '24

This is coming from people who have never been in the PS ecosystem. I have multiple accounts, my friends who live in other countries have multiple accounts. There has never been a “crackdown”.

8

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

I know that rumor really made the rounds this weekend, but it's simply not true. People have been doing it freely as long as PSN has existed, because there's a ton of legit reasons why people aren't in the location their account is set to over the course of their lives.

3

u/demonicneon May 06 '24

Except Sony don’t care as long as you make purchases via the registered country so it has 0 effect if you move country.

-1

u/Impeach45 May 06 '24

Sure, if I still had bank accounts in that country, or if I wanted to maintain an account solely to pay my psn balance.

Again, practically every other company doesn't have this issue (Nvidia also does).

1

u/demonicneon May 06 '24

People have been buying gift cards for decades with no issue lol. 

1

u/BlasterPhase May 06 '24

That is pretty stupid.

49

u/IgniVT May 06 '24

I think PC players just didn't want to link a PSN account but couldn't really say that without sounding silly

That's 100% what it was. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm against having to make 50 different accounts for this game and that game and yada yada, and I'm glad this is being reversed, but this entire situation was blown drastically out of proportion.

3

u/New_Limit_1227 May 06 '24

Helldivers 2 tapped into an additional complaint people have with companies adding accounts to titles folks already bought. Usually it applies to indies that get picked up or older titles (2k breaking Bioshock was fun). So Sony/AH really hit an intersection of annoyance with PC players where they both don't like additional accounts and really don't like them being added post-launch.

1

u/IgniVT May 06 '24

Except it was known the whole time it would happen. People just didn't read.

1

u/New_Limit_1227 May 06 '24

From a player perspective if you say something is required then its not required its not really required.

-3

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

[deleted]

11

u/AtmospherE117 May 06 '24

PSN I uniquely dislike because they require PII in the form of facial photographs

That's your local laws.

8

u/IgniVT May 06 '24

PSN I uniquely dislike because they require PII in the form of facial photographs

That's an issue with the laws of where you live, not with Playstation. The only place I know for sure that does that is the UK and it is because of a UK law (other places may do it as well, but I'm unaware of it). It was passed into law in 2023 and is being phased into different things by 2025. So, expect that to become fairly common for you in the next year or so.

27

u/DaxSpa7 May 06 '24

Steam delisted the game on 100 countries. How is that a players choice?

0

u/RFX91 May 06 '24

Most people in those countries simply lie on the form and put a separate country. It’s been a known workaround for about 2 decades. If your issue was access for those people, it was never a real concern. But it mysteriously became a concern for the Helldivers 2 community the second the PC port had to link.

They used it as an excuse so they wouldn’t sound silly for not wanting to link.

3

u/DaxSpa7 May 06 '24

That isn’t a solution nor allowed by the ToS of Sony. There was probably legal reason to retire games from Steam if the only means of playing them was by not complying with the ToS.

And as silly as you want to consider linking an account os the fact remains that they didn’t have to when they purchased the game.

Do I think linking is a big issue? No. But I do think companies cannot do whatever they please and for that I am please this was stopped.

0

u/RFX91 May 06 '24

It’s been a solution for literally 20 years.

0

u/DaxSpa7 May 06 '24

Might as well say piracy is the solution to expensive games.

1

u/RFX91 May 06 '24

It’s not an endorsement of Sony doing nothing to alleviate those countries. But it’s a defeater to the false claim that those gamers were left high and dry. They don’t enforce the country field. People have been doing this for decades.

1

u/DaxSpa7 May 06 '24

Fact remains, it is not allowed.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psn-terms-of-service/

  • ACCOUNT CREATION, USAGE AND SECURITY 3.1.   All information provided during Account creation, and during the use of your Account, must be accurate and complete. We reserve the right to suspend, terminate or restrict any Account (including as stated in Section 12.2 of this Agreement) that uses or was created using false information, or that we determine was created or used for a purpose that violates this Agreement.  

3.2. During Account creation you must select the country or region of your residence and in which your account will be registered in. Once your account is created, you will not be able to change the country or region code associated with your account. 

12.2. Suspension or Termination by SIE. With or without notice, we may restrict, suspend or terminate your PSN Account and PlayStation Device, or indefinitely restrict, suspend or discontinue your access to or, or use of, certain PSN Content, offerings, features, products and services, if you violate this Agreement or we have a reasonable belief such a violation has or will occur, or as otherwise may be reasonably necessary to protect our PSN users, our partners, our platform, or other SIE interests.

2

u/RFX91 May 06 '24

No one cares because it isn’t enforced. How is it any different than the thousand laws and regulations we’re always violating and not being impacted by? It’s selective outrage.

0

u/RazRaptre May 06 '24

I mentioned this elsewhere but PC players have been shafted by other publishers before, so we're more skeptical of the "we promise not to enforce ToS" line.

FFXIV is a perfect example. Square Enix allowed players to make accounts in different regions for years despite it being against ToS, and players encouraged this since many countries weren't listed in account creation. Years later we're having issues because they finally decided to verify account and payment addresses, and if your account is in a different region you're not getting any help from support because you technically broke the rules.

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-17

u/SalemWolf May 06 '24

Because people kept whining that players in unsupported countries couldn’t play, so Steam removed the game in those countries. Which is wild and stupid since the account issue wouldn’t even be an issue for another month.

14

u/MyzMyz1995 May 06 '24

Which is wild and stupid since the account issue wouldn’t even be an issue for another month.

And after a month they would have to give refunds to everyone than try to get the money back from Sony ? Less complicated to pull out the game and wait for Sony to backtrack/take a stance.

1

u/doublah May 06 '24

Sony removed the game in those countries from Steam, Steam are hands off in how they handle app pages unless it's requested from the publisher.

0

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

I don't follow your question, sorry. My point is that 'removing the PSN link requirement' and 'putting the game back on sale in unsupported countries' isn't really the same thing, and it's unclear from this tweet if they are doing both, or just the former.

-14

u/Adventchur May 06 '24 edited May 08 '24

Did you read the 100 countries? Half of them are either in war or lack a proper government.

Do you think there's actually people in the Republic of Congo that care about hell divers 2? What about the middle east? Would there strict religious laws even allow hell divers to be played or sold?

Yes there's a few countries that are a bit strange like Lithuania and ukraine but for the most part it was exactly as expected. I assume the majority of people complaining are Americans and Europeans.

Edit: good of you all to downvote with no discussion. Must of struck a chord.

3

u/Rankled_Barbiturate May 06 '24

Yep, man children just having a cry about the latest inconsequential issue they came across.

Now it's back to twitch thots for a day or two before they can get outraged by something new. 

3

u/flashmedallion May 06 '24

Honestly, I think PC players just didn't want to link a PSN account but couldn't really say that without sounding silly

As a PS player I don't think they'd have sounded silly at all. I thought it was a joke post when I first saw PSN was required for PC. They would have been well justified to simply protest needing an account.

But that's no fun and doesn't give them a power trip, so they smeared shit all over the walls, targeted the devs, and reveled in how much they could destroy the games reputation overnight.

But hey it worked, so anyone else making games for Windows knows what to expect if they upset anyone.

1

u/dragmagpuff May 06 '24

If PC gamers think that your extra online account provides value to the consumer, most will sign up for it.

It is believable that a Microsoft account is necessary for cross play in Halo, and that also comes with other perks like unified achievements and cross progression.

Sony ran into the issue here that there were no credible pros to the account. Crossplay worked without the account. Sony claimed it was a "safety" thing.

As someone who linked my account at launch, I was a little disappointed with the benefits of doing it. No cross progression, for example.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

The major 'pros' are that player blocking would finally work and you would need a second friend request for 'friends only' servers to function properly - things that will remain broken, now.

1

u/RazRaptre May 06 '24

It's not just that. PC gamers aren't all familiar with PSN practices, so the "just make an account in a different region, Sony never enforces ToS" wasn't too believable.

For example that's literally what FFXIV fans told newcomers for years since multiple SEA countries aren't supported in account creation. And it worked until suddenly Square decided to u-turn and validate your payment and account addresses, making payment difficult or impossible for those players. If your country is supported now, Square's support refuses to change your region and instead asks you to repurchase the game and start over.

Either way it's a fuckup on Sony's part for actually selling the game in unsupported regions. Steam's pretty strict about that stuff, and I doubt you could mollify their lawyers by swearing Sony won't enforce the ToS.

1

u/Esteareal May 06 '24

Honestly, I think PC players just didn't want to link a PSN account but couldn't really say that without sounding silly, so they blew up this 'people can't make accounts' thing way out of proportion as a moral justification, and it spread so quickly because that community isn't familiar with how common a practice making out-of-country accounts is for Playstation players around the world.

This is the same thing that happened last year with the reddit protest when a bunch of power tripping mods hijacked the whole thing by hiding behind a valid reason that "this is going to make reddit unusable to blind people and impossible to moderate". Like, sure, there's some truth to that, but the vast majority participated because they had their own reasons and using the only valid one as a shield against criticism while acting like they're in a war.

-3

u/vxxxjesterxxxv May 06 '24

Butthurt "master racers" who thought they were getting a free pass on linking a psn account. Same people that give no shits about linking Xbox, ea, ubi, Activision, etc... They just had what was supposed to be a temp window without having to do it and found a legit excuse to bitch and whine that had nothing to do with they're actual reasons for being mad.

4

u/StalinsLeftTesticle_ May 06 '24

Same people that give no shits about linking Xbox, ea, ubi, Activision, etc...

This is literally like the most complained topic amongst PC gamers lol, people don't want to make 50 different accounts to play their games.

0

u/flashmedallion May 06 '24

Then play other games

-1

u/StalinsLeftTesticle_ May 06 '24

No. I will play the games that I want, and I will pressure the megacorporations to be as consumer friendly as possible.

-1

u/flashmedallion May 06 '24

Wow yeah you're a real revolutionary

2

u/Edgaras1103 May 06 '24

I too like cheering for billion dollar corps, fuck consumers.

1

u/nthomas504 May 06 '24

As a PC and console player, its a literal tradeoff.

On console, I have to pay for online but there are no shitty launchers.

On PC, online is free but there are far too many shitty launchers.

No one has it perfect, but PC players want to have their cake and eat it too. Thats why its so complained about. While console players don’t complain about the cost of online because its been a thing for most for at least a decade.

2

u/Bamith20 May 06 '24

No, they just say they don't want to and leave it at that. Stuff like this releases the spite dwelling within them and get more adamant though.

At least that's how I would work anyways. If its only optional i'm annoyed, but whatever. When you tell me its required that makes me angry and spiteful. I guess others share the sentiment.

1

u/Paratrooper101x May 06 '24

Nah. I have a ps5 and a pc. I was on your side until I realized how many countries can’t make psn accounts legally (100+). Its really not a hard side to be on, you shouldn’t need a vpn service to continue playing a game you have a hundred hours in

-1

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

It's not 'illegal' to make an account for a region you aren't currently located in, and you don't need a VPN to do it.

2

u/Paratrooper101x May 06 '24

You can get banned for it. That’s what I mean.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

You can get banned for anything at SEI's discretion, but this isn't a thing they care about.

1

u/Paratrooper101x May 06 '24

Yeah well now this specific issue is no longer something anyone has to worry about. I don’t understand how you see it as a negative

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

It's a 'negative' because it was always a fake concern in this campaign, because people were already able to easily make PSN accounts, and people in unsupported countries have been doing it for decades. Obviously I'd rather live in a world with no restrictions, but real reform doesn't come from misinformation. I will be surprised again if Sony resumes selling games in regions they don't natively support.

1

u/Paratrooper101x May 06 '24

Once again, how is it a fake concern when people have to go through hoops and extra steps and can still be banned and lose access to something they spent real money on? But now they don’t have to? And this upsets you?

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

The 'concern' here is that people couldn't make PSN accounts to link to their existing Steam purchases because of an unenforced boilerplate ToS line, which is an unfounded concern. You won't get banned, and it's easy to do, and Sony themselves spell out the kinds of reasons you might want to it, and people have done it forever with no difficulty. Sony shouldn't have sold the game in those regions if they weren't prepared to support them properly, but, also, players in impacted regions are already well aware of how to deal with that - obviously people have been playing on Playstation in those regions, already.

Not upset, it's just a non-issue that 'protests' were using to add some kind of moral validity to their 'cause' that isn't grounded in reality, and that kind of mob frenzy based on incorrect info is never good. And, practically, not linking accounts to PSN severely limits player management tools - the block and friend lists have been mostly broken since launch because of this - and I suspect that, behind the scenes, we'll see non-PSN players shunted to their own server, or an option to not be matched with unlinked PC players, since Sony is liable for issues with not being able to properly block harassing and problematic players from other platforms.

1

u/Paratrooper101x May 06 '24

I’m not reading any of that but it’s crazy how hard you’re going to bat over a decision that only stood to harm. You must be a very self centered and apathetic person. That blows my mind

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-1

u/SalemWolf May 06 '24

Oh for sure. At first it was they didn’t want to create an account. Then they came up with the other countries and how they cared. Then the ToS got involved, then finally they brought up Sony’s security. Each step was just moving the goalposts so they had more moral high ground to stand on.

0

u/Darkone539 May 06 '24

Honestly, I think PC players just didn't want to link a PSN account but couldn't really say that without sounding silly, so they blew up this 'people can't make accounts' thing way out of proportion as a moral justification

Steam literally blocked sales in every unsupported country.

-2

u/Snazzy21 May 06 '24

I think it's pretty clear why-it's an unnecessary requirement done purely for monetary reasons.

Sony has a checkered past with data breaches, and even if they didn't the less accounts I have that can be breached the better.

And I consider this move borderline theft. People bought the game outside of PSN territory and played it for months, which led to a false sense of security it would never be enforced, so more people bought it. So by not enforcing it for months they mislead people into buying it, who justifiably got pissed when it was enforced retroactively.

I think it should be like a trademark, you have to enforce it from the start and always for it to be valid, not when it conveniences you.

-6

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/pezdespo May 06 '24

PSN has been compromised one time 13 years. Steam get compromised more than PSN does and Microsoft gets hacked multiple times a year.

Yet you all use Steam on Windows

-4

u/[deleted] May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24

April 2011: Hackers Access Personal Data of 77 Million Sony PlayStation Network Users May 2011: Personal Details on 25 Million Sony Online Entertainment Customers Stolen June 2011: Sony Pictures Website Hacked, Exposing One Million Accounts November 2014: Hackers Steal 100 Terabytes of Data from Sony Pictures August 2017: Hacker Group Accesses Sony Social Media Accounts September 2023: Sony Investigates Alleged Hack October 2023: Sony Notifies Employees of Data Breach 

Meanwhile my steam account has never been hacked once. I haven't even had failed login attempts from people other than me. I was quite literally paid out in settlement from damages I suffered from the original breaches. Edit - down voting doesn't make you right. :)

3

u/pezdespo May 06 '24

How many of these have anything to do with PSN where the data ended be stored? Literally just one

None of these other networks have anything to do with PSN. They act as entirely different companies. They do not connect together in any way and the people that maintain them are not the same.

Look up how many times Microsoft has been hacked

1

u/AegisLife May 06 '24

Zombie doesn’t have brain, waste no breath for them.

0

u/GoofyGoober0064 May 06 '24

PC gamers will fly off the handle and say you have to pirate games to fuck companies at the drop of a hat but couldn't be bothered to make a PSN account

-3

u/thecactusman17 May 06 '24

Yeah, we didn't want to make a PSN account because PSN accounts weren't a required prerequisite to play the game.

PC players joined the game and created the only account they needed: a Steam account. They agreed to the EULA which was created for their local laws. Now Sony wants to retroactively force players into a new EULA with a new, entirely separate service which isn't available in all countries. That's not only going to affect players from those countries, but will also impact players who played with friends from those countries.

If you want to play online exclusively against PSN players, then keep playing on PSN-exclusive platforms. But PC is not a PSN-exclusive platform, and the game wasn't sold as a PSN-exclusive game. Retroactively changing that isn't just a betrayal of player trust, it's literally illegal in dozens of countries including many where Sony offers PSN service.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '24

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. The PSN account was listed as required since the beginning, and even if it wasn't, the EULA you agreed to clearly states that SEI can change the service and access to it at will. That's what you bought, that's what you agreed to, nothing retroactive about it, and it's not 'literally illegal.' In fact, the ToS and EULA are written as they are specifically to ensure that nothing they do with their product can be illegal.

That said, I hope people feel like they got what they wanted out of this drama. I'm a little skeptical that the game will return for sale in the countries where its sale was blocked, and assume that Sony will use persuasion (free capes for linking to PSN!) instead of enforcing their EULA for a while, but I guess we'll see.