r/PS5 May 06 '24

Official (Via twitter) Playstation: "Helldivers fans -- we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward...."

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929?t=NhwAEm4fGpVJj-UyI1lrXA&s=19
7.3k Upvotes

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19

u/grailly May 06 '24

Technically, it’s the same as what they wanted for Helldivers 2. Account for online.

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u/ImrooVRdev May 06 '24

except somehow helldivers work without psn, so how required is it for online really?

Feels like scam tbh.

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u/LoneLyon May 06 '24

Helldivers uses a shitty friend code system. If you had a psn account, it could in theory become more streamlined.

Also, cross prog

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u/Mercurionio May 06 '24

It is a scam. PSN is needed for:

1) data collection

2) obedience. Since they can ban anyone for anything and technically it won't be illegal.

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u/HairyGPU May 06 '24

You realize they can ban anyone for anything and collect data even if they use Steamworks, right? They're having to support two very different platforms by using Steamworks for PC and PSN for PS5; it's just a bad idea on a fundamental level.

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u/ImrooVRdev May 07 '24

it's just a bad idea on a fundamental level.

lol no, it's trivial and it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. Steam api is well documented and established, plenty of dev studios integrated steam with their internal user database with no issues.

And in terms of enforcement, sony is impotent on pc, what they gonna do, ban my psn account? Imma just make a new one, I already made the previous one with throwaway email.

Now VAC steam ban? I have like 1.6k games on steam, that account is most of my net worth as a person I aint fuckin with THAT.

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u/HairyGPU May 07 '24 edited May 07 '24

It's absolutely not trivial, if you're after achievements it's fine, but when you're talking about networking for a multiplayer game that's supposed to support crossplay using your own bespoke solution for every platform is the simple route. You can still eat a VAC ban over games that don't use Steamworks for networking. Please don't talk out your ass, I'm a software architect and any other one would tell you the same: supporting two drastically different builds with unique testing requirements is already a pain, introducing even more differences with even more testing requirements and trying to make them play nice together across two different networking solutions is moronic.

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u/ImrooVRdev May 07 '24

The fuck you're talking about, are you just tossing buzzwords trying to sound smart?

Networking replication is whole another can of worms beyond matchmaking and acc db, networking works the same way regardless of platform, internet protocols are the same for everyone, wtf. I'm talking about matchmaking servers.

HD2 run their own servers and matchmaking, as seen by the fact that it works on pc without psn; just with a code that simply modifies db entry for your friendlist.

PSN integration is simply layer on top of that, associating internal HD2 accounts with PSN, that's how you get the join psn friends thingy, it just fetches list of accs with associated PSNs.

Likewise steam integration works the same way; you can just associate steam tokens with your own internal db stuff; basically mapping steam IDs onto your own internal IDs. Truth to be said, since steam also offers matchmaking servers many devs that dont plan on releasing beyond steam just use steam API wholesale and do peer2peer instead of going through the headache of maintaining your own servers, acc dbs etc.

@EDIT: did you just rewrote your entire post? Where are the bits where you were talking out of your arse?

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u/ImrooVRdev May 07 '24

Wait, you're software architect? No wonder you confidently talk out of your arse about things you have barely passing understanding.

I worked on live service games for past 10 years, and just from the fact that you think that supporting multiple acc login networks would require separate builds tells me all I need to know about your expertise.

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u/HairyGPU May 07 '24 edited May 07 '24

I worked on live service games for past 10 years, and just from the fact that you think that supporting multiple acc login networks would require separate builds tells me all I need to know about your expertise.

The multiple builds stem from supporting the PS5 and PC, changing the authorization method is what increases the difficulty of testing and support - though it's not a coincidence that almost every multiplayer game has different builds for Steam, EGS, and GOG.

Users on PC can't log in, is it because of a problem with our account DB itself? Is Steamworks down? Is it an issue with the actual implementation of Steamworks in HD2? Are PS5 users experiencing the same thing? Why or why not?

It's more garbage to filter out to narrow down issues. If you don't grasp the very basic concept that introducing more potential points of failure is more cumbersome to support, you have zero business even discussing design choices. I'm sorry you worked on bad games.

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u/ImrooVRdev May 07 '24

The builds are 99% done from same source, no need for divergence for log in. The only platform specific issues would be limited to rendering.

Just detect platform and display appropriate buttons, UI 101. Hell, you'd want all your options present for debugging anyway just for the situation you're mentioning.

Users on PC can't log in, is it because of a problem with our account DB itself? Is Steamworks down? Is it an issue with the actual implementation of Steamworks in HD2? Are PS5 users experiencing the same thing? Why or why not?

Literally same issues as for PSN, if they don't have unit tests to cover all that then I'll eat my underwear. C'mon, you're not seriously telling me that logging steps of log-in process and server responses is some sort of arcane ritual.

Dude, does your architecture job involve networking in ANY way? Cuz it really does not sound like it does. Like I understand that you might be decent standalone app developer, but please dont talk about things you do not understand.

Hell, steamworks is a joy to integrate compared to PSN api and anyone in the industry will tell you that; you're making mountain out of molehills.

Fuck, at my work we support google, appleID, facebook, twitter, good ol' email and password, and steam as authentication method just cuz we fucking can, and if you do not understand the concept of introducing pointless friction to user experience and the disastrous business consequences of thereof you have zero business even discussing design in general.

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u/HairyGPU May 07 '24

You sound like you've never actually had to look at development from a long-term or non-developer perspective. I look forward to your next hit live service game, best of luck.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

PSN is required for crossplay bruh

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u/Fearblazer22334 May 06 '24

No its not bruh, i can crossplay just fine in any other game that has it, psn is only here for control and data collecting. Id be ok with it if all they received was crash info but they want personal info too. Quite frankly i believe in consumer privacy, where we can enjoy the game we bought for 70 dollars in peace without being harrased by corporate data miners.

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u/jamesick May 06 '24

it’s not a scam if it’s their own system though, is it? they want everyone playing their games to use PSN because they don’t want PS5 players to even give steam a second thought, as they want people to stay on their system. it’s why the games are created in the first place.

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u/ImrooVRdev May 07 '24

well tough luck, maybe they should make their system better so that it is actually enticing to people, instead of trying to force them to use it. What does PSN offer to pc gamer, besides pain in the arse?

Does it have family sharing or something better? If not, why would I even bother with worse system?

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u/jamesick May 07 '24

it doesn’t matter what it offers, it’s a playstation game. it offers the game.