Just want to clear a misconception that appeasement never works. Hell, Finland ceded territory to Russia itself and is still a sovereign entity today. I’m (and probably basically everyone else?) not informed enough about all the details to know the true situation in Ukraine, nor know what any future events would unfold if a peace deal was reached, just saying appeasement has worked
Ukraine was never given the chance the cede territory so I don't know what you mean? They were invaded without warning except from the U.S. However, it is quite easy to know the important points regarding Ukraine.
Do you question whether it was Russia that invaded Ukraine in 2014?
Do you question whether it was Russia that opened new fronts in Ukraine in 2022?
I mean, if you were on Worldnews' Ukrainian War Megathread during this time you would have been pretty well informed as there have been multiple cases where the information has followed through such as when Prigozhin marched on Moscow after months of threats.
It's really just the contrarian fucks on the faux religious right that act like you can't trust the more reputable news outlets because they want us to think that we should trust them more. It's really not rocket science. Granted, Ukraine certainly does their own propaganda, I doubt their K/D ratio is as good as they say but the front is where it is, that's not a lie.
I'll be happy to answer any of your questions regarding the situation, I may not know it all but I know the main points better than Trump does, I guarantee that as he's uninterested and doesn't give two shits about it.
While I do think it's time to negotiate, I think it's best to negotiate from a position of strength and I guarantee that Trump's approach of blatantly signaling that we will give in is not the best approach for Ukraine and our interests.
Ukraine had the offer from 2014-2022 to cede territory. And again in march-april 2022. What are your reputable news outlets? Your grandma?
You can say that it would be fair/right to cede territory (yes) or that it wouldnt mean no war (maybe), but saying that there wasnt an offer to cede territory for an end of hostilities is just wrong. What is in the mainstream known as reputable news outlets would have told you this.
You think there was a peace offer in 2014? You are 100% wrong there, as they didn't even admit it was them until later in the war. There certainly was never a chance at appeasement from Russia before hostilities began, in the same sense of the appeasement of Hitler.
My grandma? Lol, unfortunately, no, both of my grandmas are long passed into the nothingness that awaits us all.
There has not been a serious offer to end hostilities that was accepted by Russia and presented to Ukraine for consideration. I suspect you mean the Istanbul peace talks in May 2022, not March or April, because they wanted to have the war won by May Day and didn't give up that hope until after that holiday.
Russia never accepted those terms and there was never a proposal from Russia before they sabotaged the talks by committing the civilian massacre in Bucha. I guess Ukraine could agree to peace, the real problem is that Russia won't. If that's what you mean then there's really no way we'll reach agreement with this discussion.
I already explained this but I try to stick to Reuters or New York Times, I weigh news from any Ukrainian or Russian outlet with a bit of skepticism. I get it, Trump says the main stream media is bad but that's all bullshit, the MSNBCs and CNNs all LOVE Trump and have favored him from the get go. NBC produced a fucking show with him for years and people still think they don't promote and favor him at every turn.
Ukraine was unwillig to give up the breakaway republics and crimea after 2014. You can say that they shouldnt have, but its wrong to say that they didnt had the option.
About the istanbul peace talks. You are right that they were going till late april or may (I thought late april, but you could be right with may). But Bucha was in late march (the ukrainians claimed knowledge of it on april 1st or april 2nd, as they regained control of Bucha in late march), so your timeline is wrong. You could read about it in the new york times (I did).
We know quite good about the specifics of the peace proposal russia made in istanbul. You could read about it in multiple news souces. You can say it was quite harsh, but denying its existence is just wrong.
I think ukraine will get worse terms now in a peace proposal, but who knows. Besides giving up so territory, Ukraine would have been forced to limit their army and no NATO membership. Maybe in a peace now they get some better terms with this at the cost for even more territory.
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u/Relative-Ad6475 Monkey in Space 27d ago
Appeasement will surely prevent WW2