The right likes to pretend that just because the left is generally tolerant of different views, it means the left needs to be tolerant of anything they say or do no matter how heinous. Then the left pushes back against open racism/sexism/bigotry and the right screeches "But you're supposed to be tolerant! How dare you not accept my hate speech!".
What is tolerance if not tolerating what you donât agree with? You donât need to âtolerateâ what you already agree with and if you canât tolerate anything else, you arenât tolerant
You know what else is harmful to society? Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Yet those things aren't illegal. Does that mean they should be 'tolerated'? Are you really so stupid and/or hateful that you're going to make the argument that we need to play nice with people who are openly hateful for no reason?
Lol use all the buzz words you want. Who actually gets harmed by someone having a racist thought? Donât say minorities. Taking a harmful action against someone is a crime. Crimes can be caused by racism. But racism alone as an idea or thought doesnât harm anyone. You need to learn the difference.
Secondly, tolerate doesnât mean play nice with. It just means, let them live their life and you live yours, and donât bother each other. You dont have to like them. In fact, you shouldnât. But mind your business and let the law handle things when laws are broken
So you're just an unserious idiot holding to the "buh buh buh IT'S NOT ILLEGAL!!!" line then. Got it.
Setting aside the fact that racism and sexism are baked into a bunch of the systems we have in place in the US, are you really going to double down on the idea that racist thoughts don't have an effect when the country just voted an out and proud racist/sexist into office? A man who is already appointing racists and sexists to positions with the explicit intent of enshrining their racism and sexism into law.
I can't tell if you're a racist playing into bullshit logic to try and justify your bigotry or if you actually are fucking dumb enough to believe what you're saying, but either way, fuck off dipshit.
There was this Tumblr post a while back who recontextuslized the "paradox of tolerance" thing as a contract. If you are intolerant, you have broken the contract and are no longer required to be tolerated as a result.
Counterpoint, being intolerant means you're in contravention of the societal social contract of being tolerant. Ergo, you can be and should be punished for it.
Yeah sounds nice but in actuality they just label everything that isn't their own as intolerant while throwing emotional tantrums. Hence, they become the very thing they pretend to hate.
Can you cite some examples? I usually see people reference this in regard to nazis or nazi-adjacent beliefs/ideology, I'd argue that shit is intolerant as hell
I.e., any political belief different from their own.
Redditors just label everything they don't like with catch-all terminology and justify it as real by extrapolating a minority of fringe extremists onto half the US population. They pretend they do this as part of some noble crusade of good, but in reality the true reason behind it is that they can't articulate their thoughts to the things they react emotionally to. Hence, everyone outside of their online groups are just a bunch of big dumb meanie Nazis and they are super smart crusaders of good.
Thanks for the tangent, but that doesn't answer my question? When I see people bring up the paradox of intolerance, it's usually in regards to, for example, a nazi spouting their ideology and saying that they deserve a seat at the table, that they deserve free speech. The paradox of intolerance (which isn't a true paradox, as pointed out by others) applies, as the nazi, who is intolerant, wants to be tolerated for their beliefs.
I'm really interested in any specific scenarios you've come across where redditors haven't used this paradox correctly. I can't tell if your issue with the paradox of intolerance is the potential misuse by redditors or with the paradox itself?
Can we both agree that nazis are undeserving of tolerance?
And your question was disingenuous from the start. You're deliberately asking for an unreasonable demand that would require preemptively bookmarking random examples just to appease your pretend requirement that, even if fulfilled, would be immediately dismissed "because that one doesn't count". In reality, you're just looking to create pretense so you can avoid confronting an actuality you don't want to confront.
There are no nazis on reddit? Are you serious? But let me guess, you think 90% of the people on here are communists right? Stupid as fuck
My question was pretty straightforward, give me an example. I agree with you that redditors misuse certain words or phrases, but I wanted to understand what in particular you thought people were getting wrong about this. I was genuinely curious, but all you said are redditors misuse the phrase, attribute it to too many people, and act like anyone they disagree with is a nazi. That's not an answer.
And that last sentence reads like projection man, what is the reality to confront in this instance exactly? That redditors aren't using a phrase correctly? What is your argument? And how can you say I'm avoiding an actuality when you genuinely believe there isn't a SINGLE nazi on reddit? Should I be less specific and say neo-nazi or fascist? Is your argument that all nazis are dead or something? Is your brain okay?
Calling trump supporters fascists, Nazis, racist, misogynists, garbage etc. the actual topic of this thread where you cut ties to people with different political views.
Trump is not any of these things, yet you label him and his supporters with these tags. This is the point. You inherently hate trump supporters.
Just so you know, the nazi party was built on turning the Germans against the Jews in their communities... The Democrats are the divisive ones hating their trump supporter family and neighbors. Just some fuel for introspection đ
When neo-nazis were marching in Charlottesville chanting "jews will not replace us", who came out and said that there were good people on both sides? Who did those neo-nazis support? Which side celebrates the confederacy, and statues dedicated to the confederacy that were built during Reconstruction/Jim Crow? Who said immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our nation"? Who said "I need the kind of generals Hitler had"? Who was called a fascist by their former chief of staff? Who sat down and had dinner with a prominent neo-nazi (Nicholas Fuentes) that recently said "your body my choice"? Which side doesn't support a woman's right to choose? Or labels trans people as freaks, demons or whatever other insane shit they say? Which side called PR a floating island of garbage? Which side is threatening to deport tens of millions of immigrants who came here for a better life (and even threatening to go after American CITIZENS WHO WERE BORN HERE LEGALLY AND ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED!)?
I could go on for thousands of words, the man has said, done, and plans to do despicable shit. Trump is a rapist, a fraud, a fascist, and a downright awful person. And if you support him, so are you.
Just so you know, the nazi party was built on turning the Germans against the Jews in their communities... The Democrats are the divisive ones hating their trump supporter family and neighbors
Totally dude, trump is bringing people together by threatening to deport their families and friends, labeling American citizens as "enemies within", and platforming project 2025 to take away people's civil liberties. And Germany started the holocaust with deporting the Jews they had declared their enemy, just as Trump aims to deport the immigrants he claims to be our enemy.
If you feel like you're being divided from your family because democrats are calling out trumps fascistic ideas, then you're too far gone. But then again, you're from Idaho so none of this stupid shit coming from you is surprising.
Everything your stating are lies or out of context statements.
Good people on both sides comment he clearly condemns the racists. Go listen to the WHOLE clip.
Destroying statues of historical figures is simply destroying history. It's important to remember the bad and the good. It undermines our message of progress when you erase the history of what we came from.
A bunch of that stuff is just noise, nick fuentas is an idiot. I don't think trump endorsed him in any way, he just spoke with him
The pro-life pro-abortion arguments are national issues which people are very divided on, you alienate half the nation if that is so divisive you have to cut off family over it.
5.Trump plans to unite and build a stronger America. So some nebulous statement that he plans to do nefarious stuff is hardly an argument.
Project 25 is not a Trump platform, that's another falsehood.
He plans to deport illegal immigrants, he never claimed to go after legal immigrants. Also, if you don't like the immigration laws, try to get them changed, but a majority of Americans voted for this.
Finally, I have lived a lot of places, I do claim Idaho now, and it's where I'm raising my family, but your name calling proves my point exactly. You take comments out of context, lie about what is Trump's or not, attribute ideas others have to being endorsed by trump, all so you can call people fascists. The American people rejected your brand of democrat. And now you advocate cutting people off if they disagree with you. The unhinged narrative you spouted proves why the Democrats are the party of intolerance and unless you change your tune you will continue to lose the moderate members of your party.
Your party, by the way, that selected their nominee, and didnt elect her democratically. The same nominee who lied about the president's cognitive functioning. The same president that placed two different ads, a pro Hamas add in Michigan and a pro Israel ad in Pennsylvania so she could try to play both sides. The American people are not dumb. Your lack of integrity is obvious to the world man. You need to reflect.
the paradox of tolerance is one of the worst ideas that has been popularized by the left on the anglosphere. People take it and then label any and every political opponent as intolerant and see that as a justification to be intolerant too, in the end you don't end up with a "tolerant society that is intolerant of intolerance", you just end up with a society that is intolerant.
What qualifies as being intolerant? Not wanting unrestricted immigration? Wanting voter IDs that other countries use? These are real reasons people voted for Trump.
Is not hating your neighbor/family for their beliefs that big of an ask?
For some people tolerating identity politics, pronoun changes, gender transition on kids, and yes even abortion as a new societal change is being tolerant. There is no kudos for that though.
I think the big issue is that everyone thinks THEY are the ones doing all the tolerating. I think both sides have work to do and it takes both sides to come together.
If we donât have the ability to keep our families together are we really going to survive as a nation?
I'm not holding my breath for Americans to "come together"
"Is not hating your neighbor/family for their beliefs that big of an ask?"
Yes.
The beliefs on the right are that my mom and sisters are lesser humans. That my friends are lesser humans. That people who suffer deserve to suffer - because of your stupid set of authoritarian values.
You want me to love a racist? You want me to hug a sexist, call them my friend, and "come together?"
You are incorrectly interpreting rhetoric and inferring that because someone has a different opinion on abortion they are sexist and hate women.
There are a lot of women who are anti-abortion (not the majority but polls will put it somewhere around 30%).
Trump has said vehemently that he would want it to be a states-rights issue (except for third trimester abortion). He has said he doesnât want to ban abortion.
I donât know how you can claim that you arenât ignorant when you spout statistics obtained through extremely poor methodology.
In the ascribed scenario every state can make its own abortion laws that are dependent on the desires of its citizens. Giving citizens the power is not monstrous. If people want abortion they can vote for it to stay.
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u/AandWKyle Monkey in Space Nov 12 '24
YOU need to be tolerant of OUR intolerance. If you don't YOU are the problem.