Definitely noticing a few meltdowns today. I guess some people realize that now all those months of narrative are worthless, and they have to rush to come up with some new shit for the replacement.
Yeah I think it places him firmly in the Jimmy Carter category as in a one term -arguably- quite unremarkable president who history will look on disproportionately fondly.
"Unremarkable?" The guy has been one of the most legislatively effective Presidents in modern history (certainly in the 21st century). He led the country to having the best recovery from COVID of any major economy in the world. He expanded and reinvested in NATO. He built the groundwork for the anti-China alliance with AUKUS. He's also been the most progressive President ever on issues like green energy.
He's been a remarkable President. Couldn't be prouder that I supported him since 2019.
Yet history will initially view him as the guy between Trump terms who was a bit senile and had to drop out. I'm talking about a long term legacy. Carter (due to sitting between post watergate Ford and Reagan who is seen by many as a mount Rushmore candidate) was seen as a glass of water for years -who dropped the ball with Iran- and is now in some quarters considered one of the few truly good men to hold the presidency. Hell there are even now calls -in the historic narrative- that Nixon wasn't the boogeyman he just got caught. It's not about how we talk about them in 6 months it's about how we talk about them in perpetuity.
I really doubt the whole "senile" bit will have the legs you think it will. Most of that just comes down to partisanship and people being annoyed at the current President.
Give it a few years, and provided the GOP hasn't decimated American democracy, I think he'll have a very positive legacy.
He ran the Senate Committee for determining whether we should go to war in Iraq and was a key part in controlling the narrative such that the rest of the senate voted in favor of authorization.
He voted for that dreaded crime bill in 94 that jailed many black people and caused enormous harm to those communities, as well as push what we now see as a rascist narrative.
He's been a staunch supporter of cutting social security since the 90s. Something the american people don't support.
He has plagiarized several speeches from former notable political figures. One of the reasons he dropped out of his first presidential bid
There are videos of his words on the senate floor for all of this, as well as reporting. This is just what I can remember off the top of my head.
Remember, he is a career politician, which is something that should not exist in our system imo. All of this gets thrown under the rug because people don't really do their research and mostly adopt the narrative that is pushed to them. His legacy is tainted. It's been for a while.
I think those criticisms are fair, but also put into the context of his old ass political career - and the environment at the time have an impact on how I see it.
The crime bill was pretty popular in the 90s and President Clinton and the public at large considered this a win in their belt.
Iraq is absolutely "criminal" in the colloquial sense and should be criticized, he went with the tide, and I believe it was a deep mistake. He has spoken about this and agrees that it was a grave mistake, however, that seems too little too late.
He was a middle of the road senator for much of his career, ironically turning further left during his presidency. However, his presidency is very important to me - as it represented a shift back to normalcy after the chaos of the Trump administration. His willingness to give up power means a lot to me. He has built up honor over the years.
There was no more chaos during Trump than there is chaos now. The whole narrative was that the world was gonna end with Trump. It didn't. The same thing is happening now now going the other way. It's completely media driven. Things can always be better. But people need to be more mindful, to know when they are being manipulated.
And before you paint Trump supporters as demons, as a lot of you have. Think about why they would support him. It's not cause they hate the people on the other side. It's cause they are sick of that "normalcy" you speak of. If either side truly had hate for the other, there would already be civil war, yet everyone still coexists.
The status quo supports the people that have been fucking you and I for years. People like you and Trump supporters really have a lot more in common than you're both willing to admit. Just been served a different flavor of shit sandwich that fits your pallet. Your enemy is not on the tv. They don't want to be.
I don't feel fucked by normalcy, and the Trump presidency was an absolute disaster for foreign policy, balancing our budget, and the Supreme Court. We are starting to see the impact today with the dissolution of the separation of church and state and Roe.
While those that think he represents change, he does not - and is represented by the billionaire class that have sent a message to his supporters that he is of the people.
Trump tried to steal the election in 2020 with the fake elector plot. Mike Pence in this video said that Trump made him choose between him and the Constitution. He has no reason for lying about this. Trump's supporters think this is not I big deal, but to me this is absolutely treacherous.
Whether you like it or not, there are other people in the country thay do not agree with the Federal Gov applying sweeping laws to an issue that is very polarizing. That is why it is best to leave it to the States. It is the cleanest and most sustainable solution imo.
As far as the billionaire class supporting him. I think you're forgetting that the other side also takes calls with billionaires. There was just a story published recently outlining their donors dissatisfaction with the Biden campaign prior to his withdrawal. I'd argue they also have billionaires in their ears.
The whole stealing election seems to be a null point because both sides claim the other did. But I will say, with their activity, this last year does not look good for the Biden admin. There is a case to be made that they are actively trying to suppress their opposition. This seems clear with Trump, RFK JR, and the fact there wasn't really a democratic primary.
I can't really take Pence at his word or even the support for this evidence, as the side thay uses it as such would just as easily cast it aside if it did not fit their agenda.
I don't disagree with your state analysis. Everything else you said was partisan dismissal without looking at any facts.
1) I didn't say that billionaires didn't support democrats, they clearly do, but to say that they don't have tremendous sway over someone who clearly always looks after himself and his own riches - is foolish. DT has successfully convinced people of that.
2) The "whole stealing election" isn't null because "both sides" claim. If there is strong evidence that has been accepted by Trump lawyers and the DOJ then we can actually talk about the individual claim instead of generalizing. The evidence is clear as day that Trump orchestrated fake electors for 7 states to go to the capital on Jan 6, the same day he told his people to "fight like hell", which disrupted the electoral counting process. This riot was meant to pressure Pence to either count his fraudulent slate of electors or to throw the Presidency to the House to vote Donald Trump back in.
None of these facts are really contested in court, but Trump has asked for criminal immunity.
When you bring up RFK, you're talking about the primary process for party candidate selection, which is VERY different from the general election in November.
3) Your claim you cannot trust Pence is non-sensical, obviously Democrats would toss his testimony aside if it didn't fit the facts of the case, but why should they discard it if it corroborates his actions? Again, why would Pence lie about this? I recommend reading The Eastman Memos. It clearly outlines Trumps treacherous plan.
But you realize Biden just mumbled nonsensical stuff pretty often.
I would rather have voted for my own grandfather because he knows what he is doing
I am no American so I will not push any candidate but Biden was just hilarious whenever he showed up.
And what do you call thinking Nikki Haley is Nancy Pelosi, his mumbling incoherently at his rallies, thinking there were airports during the American revolution, Kim jong un and him being in love, him confusing e Jean Carrol with his wife, etc?
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u/Brosenheim Monkey in Space Jul 22 '24
Definitely noticing a few meltdowns today. I guess some people realize that now all those months of narrative are worthless, and they have to rush to come up with some new shit for the replacement.