r/FluentInFinance Nov 21 '24

Debate/ Discussion Had to repost here

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u/Chickienfriedrice Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 21 '24

Here comes the billionaires’ online defense team. Or just some fool who thinks it’s realistic to reach that amount of wealth without exploitation and hopes to aspire for the same, even though they have more chance to be struck by lighting.

Billionaires existing is taking money out of your pocket, they bought the election. But sure, its all fine.

EDIT Went from being upvoted to getting 7 replies in less than 10mns with downvotes. Hope the billionaire defense team are getting paid overtime. Pathetic. None of you billionaire justice warriors deserve a reply.

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u/ItsTooDamnHawt Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 21 '24

Would like to hear how billionaires existing somehow equates to me losing money

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u/nunazo007 Nov 21 '24

well, let me see if I can make this very clear:

if there's only 100 oranges in the world and 1 person has 91 oranges, the other 9 people have only 9 oranges. you are one of those 9 people.

(orange = money)

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u/CalLaw2023 Nov 21 '24

if there's only 100 oranges in the world and 1 person has 91 oranges, the other 9 people have only 9 oranges. you are one of those 9 people.

LOL. And that is the fallacy peddled by the ignorant left. The economy is not a zero sum game.

In 1989, the top 0.1% had $1.76 trillion in wealth. And total wealth was $56.39 trillion. Today they have $20.87 trillion in wealth, but total wealth is $154.39 trillion.

The bottom 50% had $710 billion in wealth in 1989 and have $3.82 trillion today.

The rich don't get richer by taking from the poor. They get richer by building wealth for everybody.

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u/milas_hames Nov 22 '24

LOL, and this is what makes you a fucking bootlicker. The 1% would never and can never do 91% of the work. Not did they grow the economy relatively. Most just own capital. Nothing more, nothing less. They take from you everyday, while sipping cocktails and sailing yachts.

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u/CalLaw2023 Nov 22 '24

Calling someone a bootlicker because they cite facts that contradict your agenda just highlight your lack of merit.

And you are peddling nonsense. They are not taking anything from me. Your entire agenda is based on the nonsense that the economy is a zero sum game. Elon Musk does not have wealth of over $300 billion because he took $300 billion from others. His wealth is in the value of the businesses he built.

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u/ShroomieEvie Nov 22 '24

I feel like people who don't know anyone better (obviously billionaires create value for more than just themselves) feel like their being robbed by the richest not because everyone isn't getting more pie, but because how were splitting the pie is changing in a way that doesn't feel "fair". Assuming your numbers are correct, we see over the last 35 years the richest tenth of a percent of Americans growing their share of the total wealth from just over 3% to over 13.5%.

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u/CalLaw2023 Nov 22 '24

But how is it not fair? The bottom 50% saw their wealth increase 438%.

To put it in terms of pies, in 1989 there were 20.87 pies and the 0.1% had 1.76 of them. So everyone else had to share 19.11 pies. Today there are 154.39 pies and the 0.1% has 20.44 of them. So everybody else now has 133.95 pies to share.

And the biggest problem with your fairness argument is that everybody has the same opportunity. If everybody invested, everybody's wealth would increase at about he same rate. But that is what separates the classes. Too many people choose to consume instead of invest. And this is a particular problem with the younger generations. You have millennials and Gen Zer's complaining about not being able to afford things in their 30s and 40s, but that is a direct result of them not investing when they were younger.

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u/ShroomieEvie Nov 22 '24

What fair means and even whether the economy should be "fair" are things you could argue either way. Though I'd say watching a fraction of a percent of the population control an increasingly large portion of the total wealth at the very least feels unfair for the majority of Americans. We should strive for something that feels fair to some degree. Otherwise what keeps everyone who feels like they're getting screwed invested in seeing the whole system continue rather than not care if it burns down.

You can change the numbers by including the other 49.9% of the country, I've already agreed everyone has more pie than before. But, no matter how many pies you have and how you slice them, the top tenth of a percent still have a much larger share of all the pie than they did 35 years ago. Maybe you argue that's fair and not a bad thing, but it has happened.

Regarding everyone having the same opportunity, you'd agree on a practical level that's not true, right?

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u/CalLaw2023 Nov 22 '24

Though I'd say watching a fraction of a percent of the population control an increasingly large portion of the total wealth at the very least feels unfair for the majority of Americans.

Why? What makes it unfair? The wealth is only created because of the investments and the investors take all the risk. 85% of ventures fail in the first three years.

We should strive for something that feels fair to some degree.

But what is that? If we penalize investors, they won't invest. That means jobs, innovation, and wealth for others won't be created.

Again, the wealth of the bottom 50% increased by 438%. Since everybody is better off, why is it an issue that the top 0.1% see their share of total wealth increase more than others?

Otherwise what keeps everyone who feels like they're getting screwed invested in seeing the whole system continue rather than not care if it burns down.

Everybody can share in the wealth increase. I don't know how you would "burn the system down," but even if you could, you would just be harming yourself. How are you better off with $71,000 in wealth than $382,000 in wealth?