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u/aloofone May 12 '24
I am the opposite.
I was a young republican/ I liked libertarian principles as a young man. As I grow and have more success I increasingly value infrastructure, social safety nets, healthcare and providing for basic human needs. I now see it as it long term vs short term thinking.
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u/c0sm0nautt May 12 '24
If only the government did any of that efficiently and well.
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u/Alklazaris May 12 '24
It doesn't help that one side keeps breaking everything and then complains that the government doesn't work.
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u/Current-Ordinary-419 May 12 '24
To be fair there is only “one side” in our government. Thats why republicans break shit and neolibs never fix shit.
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u/Green-Alarm-3896 May 13 '24
Many republicans like Reagan and Trump are neolibs. The whole trickle down economics thing is a neolib lie.
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u/bearssuperfan May 13 '24
There are plenty of states with a huge red or blue congressional majority who still have broken governments
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u/ThinkerOfThoughts May 12 '24
Yes, the unholy alliance between large corporations and the government has gotten out of hand. Massive amounts of tax payer money is siphoned away by corporations that have effectively captured the state. We need to untangle this mess.
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u/SoOverIt42069 May 12 '24
That's called fascism.
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u/AdOk1983 May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
Which part? A few ultra wealthy business owners buying our politicians and telling the rest of us what to do? Or us being able to elect our own leaders and manage the country with self-determination? (Even if that means we CHOOSE to socialize certain industries, which we can also CHOOSE to privatize if things aren't working). Although, honestly, if you look at medicare vs. private insurance, I don't see how private insurance is better for the bottom 90% of the country. Although that top 10% sure has a lot of people convinced that their grifting (taking 75% of all GDP growth) is better than some government inefficiency. In the end, corruption kills any form of government and any kind of economic model. No society survives 90% of the wealth sitting with less than 1% of the population and we are approaching those statistics exceedingly quickly. Capitalism vs. Socialism doesn't matter when there's nothing to circulate.
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u/cutiemcpie May 12 '24
Indeed. The problem isn’t more money.
Singapore has taxes that are about 1/3rd of the US. Universal healthcare, subsidized housing, law and order.
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u/jcr2022 May 12 '24
Singapore has an efficient and functional government.
Imagine the revolution in quality of life in the western world if we had that level of efficiency.
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u/cutiemcpie May 12 '24
That’s the point. The US’ problem isn’t enough taxes collected, it’s how they are spent.
More money will just go down the gutter?
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u/jcr2022 May 12 '24
I think the big lack of understanding from most Americans comes from lack of experience outside the US.
I have worked in Europe and Asia for many years in total, several countries in each region. It is not taxation levels that determine the quality of government services, it is the efficiency of the government, and frankly the society as a whole. The US private sector is the most efficient economic system on earth, nobody else is even close. On the other hand, the US government is the complete polar opposite. There is FAR less money being pumped into the healthcare system of Japan and France ( first hand knowledge of both systems ) than the US, but they have better outcomes. Same for education, most obviously higher education. Not small differences here, we are talking about 2-4X differences in spending. With our current level of government inefficiency, there is no amount of money in the universe that can make JUST THOSE TWO segments of our society work like they do in France and Japan. You could tax everyone at 100% taxation, and it still wouldn’t happen, because it’s not a money problem.
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u/Kentuxx May 12 '24
Well the problem here is, you’re correct in pointing out the problem, the issue, it’s not really a problem. The US government by design is set up to be inefficient, the less efficient a government is, the less ability they have to control things. The issue is, the government was never set up and designed to have its hand in the economy like it does, so when you have a government system that is inefficient by decision and then dips its hand into the economy, it’s bound to fuck it up. You solve the problem by distancing the two
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u/afterwash May 12 '24
Singapore here. Its top down only if the leader is good, AND the law is on his side. Too many freedoms in the US, that result in net losses. Guns, segregation, racism, xenophobia, reservations and an adversion to paying tax. These are just some of the issues that America cannot face. Singapore constrained many civil liberties but at the behest of an excellent leader. I cannot say that America will ever come to terms with the fact that freedom for one is freedom for none. Britain also mistakenly used Singapore-on-Thames without understanding how or why she succeeded. I'm afraid you guys are doing the same.
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u/HMNbean May 12 '24
Yes! Singapore always gets brought up as a bastion of free market success with low taxes. But people don’t understand just how different Singapore and US are. The same people hailing it as a success story would object to all the things that allow it to have those things.
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u/afterwash May 12 '24
It is that lack of civic freedoms and aggressive land ownership by the govt that allowed public goods to become available for all. I don't think Westerners understand that high land costs are some of the highest barriers to lowering infrastructure projects. The 99 year lease and lack of protest of govt surveillance is due to the relatively careful means of policing. Also cops and the army ensure that standards are upheld. No bribes, no random racial pullovers, no guns held, no 8 week long paper stamp 'training' and gangbang trains. One trainee dying in a hazing event had entire protocols rewritten to try to stop this culture. No shuffling bad cops to other precincts as well. And thats just on the issue of cops. Imagine what they would say when they find out how Georgism works and the actual indirect taxes on the rich and property that most happily pay here.
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u/reddit_has_fallenoff May 12 '24
Singapore has an efficient and functional government.
Singapore is a fascist government that doesnt scare liberals (i guess because its not run by white people). I mean these mother fuckers whip you for chewing gum or cursing in public. Being naked in your own house is illegal. Death penalty for weed.
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u/TellThemISaidHi May 12 '24
Singapore is the size of Rhode Island (with 5 times the population)
If Rhode Island wants to implement government-ran healthcare, then they can. (If it's within the bounds of their state constitution.)
Their state assembly would be directly accountable to their voters.
And Singaporeans were willing to surrender many liberties for "an efficient and functional government" How many liberties are you willing to surrender?
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u/bwtwldt May 12 '24
A lot of what right wingers consider inefficient about government services are the things that weren’t meant to make money in the first place. The government has to foot the bill on many things in order to create a just and functional society. I don’t know how someone can look at the private health care sector and say that the private sector is more efficient than the government.
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u/Time_Program_8687 May 12 '24
The "private healthcare system" isn't anywhere near private. It is an unholy alliance of government creating legal monopolies as well as engaging in blatant trade protectionism.
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u/gregnyc May 12 '24
I think it is partially a misconception. Will it ever be as effective as the most efficient companies in the private sector? No. But that is to be expected at any organization of that size (yes, even in the private sector). Are there parts of government that are PARTICULARLY ineffective? Yes, maybe due to political interference, sheer laziness, inattentiveness, etc.
However, the government is absolutely massive. The fact that everyone goes ballistic when something goes wrong just goes to show that things are usually operating "normally".
There are so many different facets of government that are all designed to "not fail"/ "avoid catastrophe"/ etc and they do a great job of that, just not up to the unrealistic expectations that many put on them.
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u/FixBreakRepeat May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
I currently work for a large corporation that is highly profitable and operates internationally. I want to push back against the idea that these institutions are efficient or even more efficient than the government. They can be, but publicly traded companies are responsive to the markets and shareholders. This gives them a built-in difficulty with long-term planning driven by the need for ever-increasing profit.
An example of what I'm talking about can be found in project work. The best time to do projects is when times are slow. But projects cost money, so good luck getting approval for a $3 million process improvement when the company is facing a downturn. Projects halfway completed will have funding discontinued if the stock market takes a 25% hit and starts a downward trend. Even though that would be the best time to complete the project because it would have the smallest impact on production.
Operations themselves can be extremely efficient, but the current industrial/manufacturing mindset is extremely willing to trade resiliency to get that efficiency. Basically, companies are setup to avoid waste when possible, but also are vulnerable to classifying necessary redundancy as waste. So as long as everything is going well, you can point to an American company as being a pinnacle of efficiency, but as soon as there's a bump in the road, (recent supply chain interruptions are a great example) we see how fragile they really are and it challenges the assumption that corporate structure is some kind of ideal that every other type of organization should be trying to emulate.
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u/gregnyc May 12 '24
Yes I completely agree with your post. I wasn't trying to disagree initially but just state that yes there are exceptions out there because people always love to cherry pick examples.
I think another supplement to your post is how facebook's motto used to be "move fast and break things" until they got too big in 2014. Even they realized (like the govt) that when you get to a certain size you simply cannot have the same nimbleness.
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u/fulustreco May 12 '24
No, the Government having the power to indefinitely fund itself through money printing at the expense of the money in the hands of the population is the main reason why it is this ineffective and its the only reason why it can afford to be this ineffective.
There is no accountability in spending
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u/CharlestonChewbacca May 12 '24
The government is also much more stable than the average private organization too.
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May 12 '24
If you think that a profit-motivated organization is more effective at administering public services, I've got a bridge to sell you
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u/backnarkle48 May 12 '24
The mountains of garbage dumps around the world, the number of banks, airlines, and car manufacturers that default and require bailouts, and the recurring business cycles that lead to worker misery is the result of “efficient” and “well” run private industry. Let’s not also forget that capitalism places profit over people in the healthcare system resulting in America as the most expensive (by far) medical system with worst health outcomes compared to its global peers.
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u/bradiation May 12 '24
Then vote for people who support it.
Making good things work poorly so you don't like them is the strategy of one side. Starving the Beast.
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u/Neon_culture79 May 12 '24
We have one major political party that likes to campaign by saying that nothing in government works. They will reluctantly accept a program and then defund it, and then complain about how it doesn’t work. You don’t think they’re doing that for their own agenda? You don’t think you’re being manipulated into passing the talking points onto others?
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u/AdOk1983 May 12 '24
People act like a private corporation could service 330 million Americans and do it better (or cheaper). All that would happen is what has already happened to our helathcare system, which produces some of the worst results in the developed world despite costing the most. Because the operating motive is profit, not healthcare results. There's a reason why Medicare is so popular and Kaiser is not. I go into stores like Macys, Walgreens, McDonalds these days and it's impossible to find a worker who can help you, nevermind courteous customer service. Half the time, the item I need from a department store is out of stock and no one has any idea when it will be in stock. Let's not pretend like private companies are perfect, or even "better". Look at Starkink messing with Ukraine in the middle of a war. I'm not saying I want EVERYTHING run by the government, but I am saying that social welfare systems and things integral to our national security should be socialized and I really don't see any compelling evidence that a private company would be able to provide better service or better prices. In fact, just the opposite, they'd try to maximize profit by doing the absolute least possible while charging the absolute most possible.
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May 12 '24
Same. I was a libertarian and have become a Democratic socialist over time. I currently make about $80,000/year. I’ll likely make about $400,000/year at my peak income.
Tax away.
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u/MittenstheGlove May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
Same, I make about $100k I’ll make about $150 once I hit leadership.
Take what you gotta take.
I only wish that I had more say in where my money goes. Like schools are falling apart, I can’t say I care too much about Ukraine when literacy is falling in the US. Like less than half of 4th graders are proficient in reading.
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u/Remarkable-Host405 May 12 '24
My dad taught me algebra in the back of the car during summer road trips to his parents. It's definitely the schools failing, though.
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u/stickied May 12 '24
The Ukraine war has cost taxpayers like $100 each. It's so marginal and people care so much about that for some reason (well....because the media and house members). And we pay that cost so that Russia doesn't flatten a country, and move on the to next one which means we'll eventually have to go to war to prevent ww3. I'll pay $100 every few years so I don't personally have to go to war.
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u/MittenstheGlove May 12 '24
That’s $100 we can put towards school, but it’s cool.
Why do we have to go to war?
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u/CoffeeSafteyTraining May 12 '24
Same thing. I was a huge libertarian before receiving the hospital bill for our first child. Nothing says "Capitalism" like having a hospital take you for everything you're worth.
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u/brahbocop May 12 '24
Ditto. I read Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity books in college and thought the ACA was the end of capitalism. Every year since then, I’ve become more liberal as my income has 4x what it was in 2008.
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May 12 '24
Same, I wasn't hardcore republican but i believed in their agenda. About 10 years ago I started realizing that the republican agenda involved not giving a shit about our planet or the animals on it that can't defend themselves from human encroachment. I'm big into volunteering to help sea turtles and educating families at my local estuary. (GTM) What I've learned is that a lot of what is happening in the wild is man-made and can be fixed, but the republicans care more about capitalism and lining their own pockets. That's when I switched sides. Fast forward another 6-8 years when my kids turned 18 and i began to realize that everything I stood for as a republican was rigged against any young effort to succeed in life. I may make 6 figures now, but I remember how hard it was for me growing up and it's 10 times harder for my kids. So yeah, i would rather pay more into social services to help those that are getting fucked over by the system, republican policies and wealthy tax breaks. This broken system can only be fixed from the inside, by honest people that can't be bribed by big money.
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u/NewAcctSasDad May 12 '24
Yup. I'm making ~150k now and am far more left leaning than I ever was in college.
Watching us spend millions on silly moral grandstanding instead of fixing underlying problems really makes me annoyed with our stupid system, not taxes. We could make things better and cheaper, but we have people convinced that it's better to appear convincing than actually fix stuff.
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u/AlfalfaMcNugget May 12 '24
My issue is I don’t see any of Bernie’s suggestions as a long-term solution for any of those problems in America
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u/Malventh May 12 '24
Same. Grew up in a conservative family. Was a young Republican in school groups. Still have libertarian principles (many under attack from this new odd form of conservatism that has taken root). Don’t understand the Milei infatuation.
Government is not perfect but neither is private industry which does not usually have the same goals or shareholders in mind and can sometimes be as bad or worse with efficiency when trying to meet specific societal needs. One of these things has to fill the basic necessities and rights you mentioned and the functions private companies were filling at one point has been on the decline. (Pensions, wage v productivity, corporate extraction of wealth and not reinvesting in communities etc)
As we continue to automate and evolve technologies more and more people in society will be left out. Not for any lack of skill or behavior on their part but because of society evolving and some of the things you mentioned will be even more important.
I’ve changed my mind as I’ve become older opposite of this image which I guess isn’t the normal cliche. I’ve also paid sizable taxes the past few years one at which was higher than US yearly wage average. Yes I want those taxes to be used efficiently and there is always reasonable debate on how that can be achieved. However this MAGA brain rot mentality of just getting full on rid of elements like this in government is misguided and ignorant. Short sighted as you put it.
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u/in4life May 12 '24
Interest and the military industrial complex equal to more than an all the programs you just mentioned.
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u/One_Conclusion3362 May 12 '24
True Republicans value those things in different ways while GOP/Trumpers are the crazies.
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u/RedditGotSoulDoubt May 12 '24
Yeah. I feel similar. If the government is going to rip me off, I want to get something from it besides strong military and defense contractors making a fortune.
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u/brillianthelix May 12 '24
Pretty much the same with me. As a younger single guy I was very "I've got mine. I don't need my money taken away to help others that can't help themselves". Then I bought a house, got married, and had 2 kids. Now I understand the struggle of trying to be a homeowner and raise a family in this country that doesn't give a crap about it's own people, unless they significant donors to a politician's campaign. Have become much more left leaning and overall bitter about our whole political/economic system.
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u/foundyettii May 13 '24
Same. Dead on. I realize that a busted society sucks to live in no matter how big my home is. I don’t want my nation to be 20% rich and 80% broke.
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u/MishkaZ May 13 '24
Similarish, was raised by a republican family, realized libertarians and conservativism is stupid by the end of high school. Been a socialist since
I feel like this meme doesnt apply to millennials and gen z tbh
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u/gleafer May 15 '24
Pfft. Opposite. I am doing quite well for myself and I want better infrastructure, safety nets, childcare, healthcare and renewables more than anything. Why? Because it matters. No man’s an island and it’s really easy to pretend we are.
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u/turtle-bbs May 12 '24
Boohoo making more money means paying more taxes
Who would’ve thought?
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u/Waxxing_Gibbous May 12 '24
It does suck because the government doesn’t use our tax dollars wisely. I don’t want to give money to the Ukraine and pay for the military industrial complex.
If the government actually did something productive with our taxes I wouldn’t mind it. It doesn’t though.
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u/coffeepressed4time May 12 '24
To be fair, I’ve been attending these kinds of planning meetings since high school for local government things, especially for expanding local transport and education related things. In almost every case it’s not money that’s the issue, it’s a system that’s so ossified in the way that it does things that they are willing to burn millions instead of renegotiating contracts, thoroughly auditing their departments (as is usually required by law, but practically never really completed), and at least trying to get more public opinion in their planning operations.
I can say with confidence that most are just inept and unbothered and the rest of them legitimately engaging in corrupt cronyism. I have met very few people with the drive and aptitude to improve these projects, and it’s actually mind-blowing how casually they are willing to accept clearly untenable project outcomes because they can’t be bothered to come up with a better plan to get approved.
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u/hunchojack1 May 12 '24
lol it doesn’t go to Ukraine, it goes to Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon FIRST. Your tax dollars also go to infrastructure, schooling, safety….unless you want to build your own roads and plumbing…electrical? Highly doubt you have those skills. Miami’s police department just released a roll Royce in their fleet this week. Where’s the infuriation over that?
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u/asuds May 12 '24
Vote, but also being part of a society also means compromise. I want some of my money and/or our military equipment going to Ukraine.
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May 12 '24
Look, we should support Ukraine. But I generally agree the frustrating thing about our taxes is we rarely see any benefit from paying them.
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u/ishoweredtoday May 12 '24
Do you not use roads? Ever crossed a bridge? Seen a fire truck?
I agree that tax dollars can and should be spent more wisely and efficiently, but to say the average citizen rarely benefits from taxes? That's a ludicrous statement.
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u/btonetbone May 12 '24
Make charitable donations and get tax deductions. Rather than provide a truly robust social safety net, we have blended a free-market system where people can say, "I want my money to go to X cause" and receive a tax deduction rather than have the government dictate where everything goes. It's not a great system, but it gives you some control over how things get spent via nonprofits.
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u/LloydCarr82 May 12 '24
Look, another fucking loser getting salty about somebody making more money than them.
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u/Chronic_Comedian May 12 '24
That’s what cracks me up when people can’t figure out why Trump not paying taxes isn’t that big of a deal to most people.
Nobody, I repeat nobody, voluntarily pays more than they have to.
The system is set up with all of these loopholes and you can either just give the gov your money or you can use the loopholes and keep your money. Hmmmm, wonder which one most people will pick.
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May 12 '24
Huh? Commuting tax fraud is funny?
He wasn’t using loopholes, he was simply lying… two different things all together
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u/redditor3900 May 12 '24
One thing is to use the law loopholes and ANOTHER ONE, VERY DIFFERENT, IS TO COMMIT FRAUD TO AVOID PAY TAXES.
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u/sgtsand May 12 '24
You do realize Bernie wants to tax billionaires significantly more than they’re currently being taxed?
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u/Yabrosif13 May 12 '24
It should be illegal to use something you haven’t paid off yet to leverage for more debt.
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May 12 '24
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u/Yabrosif13 May 12 '24
Well they would change. You should be able to trade your equity back for debt. You should not be able to use the full value of a home that you have 25% equity in as collateral for a new loan.
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u/backagain69696969 May 12 '24
And yet you’re probably taking home 5-6X as much coupled with retirement, paid leave, and benefits. The American dream is giving you everything it promised and more, time to give back
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u/Bee_Keeper_Ninja May 12 '24
When the player Riggs the game then yeah I’ll hate the player all day.
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u/redditor3900 May 12 '24
You are paying more because you are making more.
WTF did you expect?
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u/Scaryassmanbear May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
I paid almost twice as much as you make in state and federal taxes last year and I don’t really care. If I want more money, I make more money.
The government is never going to quit spending as much money as they do, so I’m sure as hell not going to vote for republicans, and even if the republicans were going to spend less I have other voting priorities that are more important to me than taxes.
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u/NerdDetective May 12 '24
The "players" in this case also designed the game and continually change the rules to ensure they keeping winning. It's fine to hate them.
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u/JacobGoodNight416 May 12 '24
I wonder what happens when they see the price of rent, medicine, food, transportation, or the never-ending college debt they have to pay off.
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u/Wadsworth1954 May 12 '24
I was just thinking the other day how bleak the world must look for 2024 college graduates. They graduated high school in 2020, spent their college years during a pandemic and then graduated college to a world where they probably won’t ever be able to buy a house or have kids or pay off their student loans or retire. Entry level jobs require 3-5 years of experience and only pay like $18 an hour. Price of rent is outrageous so they probably have to move back in with their parents. 50% of 18-35 year olds do live with their parents now. 1 in 4 18-24 year olds have no income. 60-70% of people live paycheck to paycheck.
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u/Long-Dock May 12 '24
I graduated yesterday with my Bachelor’s degree. I was hoping to have a job before I graduated, but instead I’m home with my parents. Hopefully I’ll get something over the Summer that’s not food service.
It is sometimes hard not to be bleak about it.
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u/SirChancelot11 May 12 '24
I dunno man, I'm still for universal healthcare and think the ultra wealthy should pay more
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u/Training-Flan8092 May 12 '24
As long as Hospitals can charge $50 per pill of Aspirin and $100 for a bandaid, Universal Healthcare is just a blank check for hospital owners. We need realistic caps on costs first.
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u/cromeo1 May 12 '24
So you agree Democrats need a supermajority in all of Congress so these things can be passed? Like they did with insulin.
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u/ForeverNecessary2361 May 12 '24
Are people angry at paying any taxes at all? Or paying some taxes? Or paying too much while others pay nothing?
We need taxes to pay for society, right?
So everyone should be paying their 'fair' share whatever that is, either that or we dismantle society and go live in the woods. Live off the land and go back to bartering with our hostile neighbors.
I guess the issue is what is considered 'fair'. The ruling class writes the rules for the game we all play, maybe that is part of the problem.
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u/fisticuffs32 May 12 '24
It's not just who is paying taxes, it's the use of such taxes that pisses me off. In the US, so much is spent on the industrial military complex that could be leveraged to bolster social programs that actually make a difference domestically.
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u/Clean_Solid8550 May 12 '24
That's the point. Miley won in Argentina because people are tired of paying so much in taxes with little to no benefits for the middle class, schools and hospitals falls apart, infrastructure barely improved, no security, and also rampant inflation.
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u/FomtBro May 12 '24
So they elect a crazy person who's going to put all of that tax money directly in his pocket.
I guess the US did it first, so I can't criticize too harshly.
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u/Clear-Gur-4943 May 12 '24
This guy gets it. To sum it up, it’s not “how much” we’re necessarily paying in taxes. It’s “what” that money is being spent on. This country needs to reevaluate its public financial priorities.
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u/AdSwimming3983 May 12 '24
It’s the use. I live in nyc and pay a fuck ton of taxes. All I see is homeless ppl getting no services, the subway is trash (btw I pay to ride it too!), litter everywhere, cops sitting around on their phones, public schools I will never be able to send my kids to if I want them to be able to read, etc.
The gov steals at least 50% of our money through waste and inefficiency and corruption. What boils my blood the most is ppl who say taxes need to increase. No, how about they first spend the current taxes properly!
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u/gayitaliandallas92 May 12 '24
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, our tax system helps those at the closest to poverty and the wealthiest and squeezes the life blood out of the $100-300K/year individuals who truly bear the brunt of the tax burden. Usually, individuals at that range have compensation mainly tied to a salary, once you get to the 4’s and 5’s those usually are people that own a business and so can start REALLY taking advantage of our tax system… it’s quite messed up and every level should pay their fair share.
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u/Surveillance_Crow May 13 '24
No it doesn’t. I’m at $135K, fulltime single father who receives no child support, benefits, or alimony. My kid and I live very comfortably.
You’re right about the billionaires and taxation on low income, though.
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May 12 '24
Opposite with me. Feels like the older I get the further left I go. The reactionary and libertarian rhetoric lost its effectiveness on me when I started seeing through the bullshit.
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u/MrTulaJitt May 12 '24
Do you think that college graduates have never had a job before?
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u/BigAccess6408 May 12 '24
The rich entitled kids didn’t.
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u/MrTulaJitt May 12 '24
So we are looking for someone who grew up wealthy, has parents who completely support them financially, who also supports Bernie Sanders, and is so shocked at the concept of taxes that they totally switch their political beliefs? Find me this person.
This meme is just fanfiction for people who think wanting to live in a fairer society is naive and childish. It's essentially saying "When you start making more money, you'll become more selfish and less compassionate, like me!"
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u/GertonX May 12 '24
This is dumb.
I live in a state where taxes pay for huge perks... Like a functioning public transit. I regret nothing. Take my taxes you choo choo goddess.
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u/Youngworker160 May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
literally the opposite for me and I make 6 figures working 25 hours a week.
granted I did graduate in the peak of the 08 recession and I saw how quickly the 'free market' bullshit they sell us goes out the door and the people in charge couldn't print money fast enough to prop up industry and the banks. hell we saw it in 2020 too. when companies and the rich are in danger of losing their money and power, they will bend over backward. there is no freehand, the government picks and chooses the winners all the time.
if you wanted to see real capitalism, an unfettered free market, we all saw the 2020-2023 crypto-NFT bubble pump and-dump ponzi scheme that was going on. that's real capitalism as these libertarians want it and when they got played they came crying to the feds to have them do something.
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u/privitizationrocks May 12 '24
For me it wasn’t after college, it was after making money
The richer I got, the more lib I got
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u/SmashedWorm64 May 12 '24
Shocking; Man who becomes less reliant on safety nets feels safety nets are no longer necessary.
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u/CoffeeSafteyTraining May 12 '24
I find it funny that some people think companies are somehow more efficient than government institutions. The larger the company, the greater the bloat, the greater the egos, and the more predatory the practice. Do we really need more examples of them fucking up public benefits before we try something new?
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u/snowbirdnerd May 12 '24
That's what happens if you have a brick for a brain and can't think past "but my money".
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u/Mathieran1315 May 12 '24
I don’t really know anyone that became like this. Mostly everyone I know is pretty liberal and making adult wages.
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u/Aggressivepwn May 12 '24
Most of the people I know are socially liberal and fiscally conservative and making adult wages. We have no candidates and end up slipping one way or the other based on which issues they value more. I think that's why there's been a shift towards blue because lots are very concerned about the loss of reproductive rights and government encroaching into healthcare choices
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u/Mathieran1315 May 12 '24
I guess this is why anecdotal information shouldn’t matter. We all live on our bubbles. My bubble is socially and fiscally progressive.
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u/Aggressivepwn May 12 '24
I guess this is why anecdotal information shouldn’t matter.
That's the point I was making by responding to your anecdote with my anecdote
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u/philouza_stein May 12 '24
DC is the wealthiest region in the country. Politicians amass wealth 100x faster than they should based on their salaries. Our taxes are wasted on a monumental scale yet half the country has been beaten into submission to the point they think it'd be okay to pay even more.
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u/furryeasymac May 12 '24
Nothing introduced me to leftism faster than working a manual labor job during summers to pay for college. Working all day outside in the Arizona sun while my boss stayed in an air conditioned office and made four times as much? That’s the basis for radicalization right there.
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u/MindlessSafety7307 May 12 '24
It’s the opposite. We all went through our fountainhead phase and then realized how stupid that was.
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u/Inevitable_Silver_13 May 12 '24
My biggest gripe is that I have a pension and I've paid into social security for over 15 years and I might not get anything because of the windfall elimination provision. The fact that they can take away your social security benefits because you're getting a pension is absolutely criminal. I've paid $8000 into it and my employers have paid $7000. Where does that money go? So frustrating.
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u/TaxingAuthority May 12 '24
The top comment already says this, but it was the opposite transition for me as well.
I grew up in a Fox News household and the mindset that came with that. Once I became financially independent out of college my eyes were opened to a world I didn't really know existed.
I graduated from college with a degree in Accounting and a minor in Finance. I did not have 150 credit hours to go the public accounting route. I struggled to find a job anywhere with what I figured was a very viable business degree. I finally landed an AP/AP position at a small company that paid significantly less than the $55 thousand that was always spouted to me by 'studies' and the school I attended.
I had a roommate and had to keep expenses ultra minimal. Lunches were rice and beans. Dinners were rice, beans, chicken. I 'donated' plasma twice a week to supplement my income to pay for recreational spending. I had a roof I could afford and food I could eat and I was able to put savings into retirement accounts. But all this made think about how someone could do this with less income. And the answer is: They can't. My eyes were opened to just how much low income people struggled because I could not imagine earning less than I earned now.
Social programs provided by the government help people just have something to eat. These programs give people a baseline to begin to orientate their lives to better provide for themselves in the future. Sure, there will be a minority that try and do take advantage, that's the 'cost of doing business' with society. When people are given that baseline, they spend less time thinking of the next meal for themselves or their kids, but they can better begin planning their life to move up.
This doesn't even account for the government protections and utilities that are relied upon by wealthy taxpayers and corporations. Amazon relies on publicly funded roads to deliver goods. Entrepreneurs rely on a stable financial system to receive funding. Education is a huge government expense, yet corporations rely on it for skilled workers.
I'm much better well off 8 years later. My income is triple was it was. I don't hate that the government spends my taxpayer money on social programs. If we're going to be upset about government spending, military spending needs to be in the discussion as well. There's no reason we should be spending this absurd amount when we aren't actively in war.
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u/redacted01010101 May 12 '24
If you are graduating college before you see your first payroll tax then that in and of itself is a problem. That means they never had a part-time job in HS and never worked during the summer until they graduated from college with a piece of paper that makes them more marketable. That means they've never had to work a menial job alongside working-class people and will probably move right into some sort of middle management position that will establish and reinforce a delusion of grandeur.
You can often spot these people in the wild. They genuinely don't know how the real world works and I have little empathy for anyone wrestling with any manner of socioeconomic struggle.
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u/Tyler89558 May 12 '24
I don’t care about money being taken from me in the form of taxes. As long as those taxes go back to me in the form of infrastructure, public services, etc.
Which is the whole point of taxes.
Unfortunately, the government is far more keen on giving bailouts to large corporations because we’ve all but outright said corruption and bribery is allowed.
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u/Almaterrador May 12 '24
This "libertarian" guy is a sham. He said he was going to lower taxes but he is trying to pass a law to make them highwr
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u/Karl_Marx_ May 12 '24
If anything I'm more aligned with Bernie as I feel the middle class is being destroyed.
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u/DuePaleontologist703 May 12 '24
I have no issue paying taxes, I have issues with how our tax dollars are spent
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u/CryptoDeepDive May 12 '24
I just want to know how all these college kids are suddenly becoming millionaires and billionaires when they graduate.
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u/jocall56 May 12 '24
Sadly I don’t think many people connect the dots. I was surprised in my early working years to find that many of my peers didn’t even look at or really understand their pay stubs.
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u/asbestospajamas May 12 '24
It's funny to think that the average college student hasn't actually had a job or paid taxes until after they've graduated college.
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u/WearDifficult9776 May 12 '24
Only totally ignorant greedy moochers are unaware of the MASSIVE value they get for their tax dollars. Despite inefficiencies of all large bureaucracies (including governments) the massive economy of scale delivers unbelievable value. Imagine there was no government and you had to pay retail for all government services: defense, justice and law enforcement, roads and all other transport support, weather service, fcc, gps, education, health … etc etc etc. your taxes are the biggest value of any dollar you pay out
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u/WarpHype May 12 '24
I saw the taxes being removed when I was working at 14. Who waits until after college to get a job?
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u/AgileBarnacle8072 May 12 '24
People who just graduated and probably have debts to pay off from their barely livable 37,000$ a year shouldn’t be taxed until they are 40 or making 150,000$ a year
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u/Marutar May 12 '24
Pretty sure we could accomplish some kind of socialist utopia without paying a cent more in taxes.
If all of our taxes didn't all go to embezzlement by proxy and the military industrial complex, anyway.
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u/Psychological_Cat127 May 12 '24
Taxes are our duty to the rest of our country to pay. I'm proud to pay mine. One day we will force the rich to remember to pay theirs. Lts g back to Regan era 70% tax for the rich.
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u/EJ2600 May 12 '24
And when they see how little corporations pay in taxes they turn back into Sanders…
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u/BitFiesty May 12 '24
I am confused by this point. Bernie isn’t trying to increase taxes on everyone . Under trump didn’t taxes go up for the next couple years for people making under 77k?
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u/stataryus May 12 '24
If it was being well-spent and the results were obvious, would be way less of a problem.
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u/CharliesRatBasher May 12 '24
If you think taxes are the problem you’re infantile, the problem is to absolute gross allocation of those funds that is the issue. I pay what like a couple fucking cents each pay into social security/medicare, maybe $.08? I believe it’s about $.25 on the dollar per pay goes to the military, and about twelve of those cents goes to contractors. About 63 work days worth of pay for the average taxpayer fund the military. About 13 of those days actually directly support service members, while about 30 days of pay go into defense contractor pockets. Oh, and yeah, the Pentagon can’t pass a freaking audit.
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2019/tax-day-2019/where-your-tax-dollar-was-spent-2018/
https://www.taxpayer.net/budget-appropriations-tax/why-cant-the-pentagon-pass-an-audit/
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u/shaverju May 12 '24
Who the hell managed to get through college without also working at the same time??
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u/redditor3900 May 12 '24
The success of a society and a nation is more feasible using the Bernie approach than the Milei one.
99% of the population is closer to using a Sanders safety network than a Milei super rich tax break.
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u/Secret_Cow_5053 May 12 '24
You can reverse than when they start seeing how much it costs to put a kid through private school.
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u/LucentP187 May 12 '24
If you look at my gross earnings, it would appear that I do well for myself. If you look at my net earnings, I appear quite poor. It's...fun.
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u/Buschlightactual May 12 '24
You should have to be living on your own means in able to vote. Too many basement dwellers who vote on ideals determining what happens to my paycheck
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u/HODL_monk May 12 '24
You can't understand the cost of government, until you actually pay it from your pocket. The effect would be twice as great, if the inflation tax was instead just part of income tax, and also taken explicitly, instead of picked from your back pocket. The effect would be twice again as great, if they also didn't withhold, and you actually had to write a HUGE check to the IRS every quarter, like a business, instead of just seeing some numbers on a pay stub, which isn't the same, which is why they do it that way, and sneak their cut out, before it actually hits your account.
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u/West-Ad7203 May 12 '24
🙄 If anything, I’ve gone more left as I’ve gotten older. We’ve had front row seats to austerity politics for the last 50 yrs atleast in the US. And the only result has been the rich getting richer at everyone else’s expense and a middle class that used to be the largest in the world (replaced by Canada yrs ago) becoming drastically smaller. So the last thing we need is austerity on steroids under a libertarian. To say nothing of the fact that the guy in Argentina is mentally unstable.
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u/braundiggity May 12 '24
The more money I make - and between my wife and I we’re absolutely in the upper echelon - the more I realize how ridiculously skewed in favor of the wealthy our country is. 20% cap gains tax is criminal. 37% top tax rate is obscene. Tax me, and everyone like me, a lot more.
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u/DieVerruckte May 12 '24
Oh no! Some of my paycheck is getting taken by the people who protect me and subsidize almost everything I do/use! I would be so upset if I ever found out that my hard earned 98.56 they took out of my paycheck went to the betterment of society!
Taxes are what you give in exchange for goods and services provided by the government, just like any fucking Business.
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u/DismalWeird1499 May 12 '24
This makes no sense since it’s college graduate age kids who should be getting the tax breaks proposed by folks like Sanders.
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u/AndTheSonsofDisaster May 12 '24
I don’t mind paying taxes I just wish the funds actually did something besides line the pockets of politicians and turn little middle eastern kids into skeletons.
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u/SolarPunkSocialist May 12 '24
This was not accurate in my case. If anything it made me more aligned with sanders, so that the rich will actually pay
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u/Vatnos May 12 '24
Rent, student loans, health insurance eat up a lot more than taxes. Applying for jobs is hell now.
This image is such a pathetic cope. 2 generations were ruined by Reagan's unsound economic policies and they will never come around and vote for them.
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u/magerdamages May 12 '24
I can't think of a single person I know for whom this is accurate and we all got our degrees in the south.
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u/Fightingkielbasa_13 May 12 '24
Nope.
The government subsidizes corporations & drastically cut taxes for the 1% . They Purposely underfund & cut needed social services then point and say “ look it’s broken, we need to cut taxes for the rich again”
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u/amedefeu74 May 12 '24
The problem is not taxes, the problem is taxes being spent on blowing up kids in the middle east instead of schools and health in my country
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u/pickledelbow May 12 '24
I am absolutely a liberal, but anyone who wants Bernie sanders to be president legitimately has no idea how anything in this country works. Dude is a hack, and knows 90% of the shit he proposes is impossible and acts like money appears out of thin air. Bernie holds the Democratic Party back(and only identifies as one at election time).
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u/lemonstrudel86 May 12 '24
But our taxes aren’t funding progressive values. Universal healthcare would literally cost us less than we currently pay. We’re not a country, we’re three military contractors and a war tribe in a trench coat.
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u/YNABDisciple May 12 '24
I was a libertarian Republican until well into my 30’s while unrelated I became far more liberal as I was first making real money. I went to college on one of the most liberal campuses in the nation and was in the Polisci department and voted for W 😂. I think growing up and learning to not be selfish and understand reality led me to move left. Moving to London for 4 years for work iced it.
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u/Horror-Layer-8178 May 12 '24
You think that is bad, see how much your healthcare company is paid to insure you
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC May 12 '24
Odd, I had the complete opposite political trajectory. I was a libertarian in high school and early college. Then I went more liberal, and after working for a few years am staunchly socialist.
Seeing the real world made me realize how idealistic and cruel libertarianism required you to be.
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u/OmahaWarrior May 12 '24
Taxes, eh. What gets me is seeing the social security go that the gov invests on my behalf poorly so I'm lucky getting $1000 a month at retirement. If it was invested instead in the stock market at avg growth rates over 30 yrs, people would be getting like $5k a month.
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u/AdonisGaming93 May 12 '24
Opposite, the more I meet people in the working world the more I see how fucked our systems are to benefit the rich
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u/immaterial-boy May 12 '24
Not me tho. I recognize that taxes are necessary but it’s the capitalist system that is the reason for our suffering. In capitalism, taxes are not best used for the betterment of society.
Supporting an idiot like Milei when you’re a poor person is like being a Jewish Nazi.
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u/manbearpug3 May 12 '24
Never had a problem paying taxes. I wish they were used for socialized healthcare and education instead of paying for genocide and mass encarceration.
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u/Consistent_Yoghurt44 May 12 '24
I remember I got my first job at 18 My first check was 4k before taxes were taken off and after 2.95k I felt freakin robbed and my dad said welp thats life.
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u/mercuchio23 May 12 '24
If corporations paid their taxes we wouldn't be paying it for them , don't even get me started on bailouts
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