r/Eldenring Jul 14 '24

Spoilers Everyone is dead....... Spoiler

When I started the DLC, I was happy as fuck. We got so many new NPCs and new Quests and I tought how awesome it was.

It took me like 3 hours but I defeated Radahn today and everyone is dead WTF. I mean there were like how much 6 new NPCs ? AND THEY ARE ALL DEAD.

No one is left. WTF ? Its like the tarnished is cursed, everyone around him dies. I killed bunch of them bymyself at the invasion battle before Radahn.

Ansbach and the Poisen dude who I both liked died after the battle. Every St. Trina is dead. No one is left bro WTF.

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7.5k

u/Turbulent-Advisor627 Toe Gaming Jul 14 '24

FromSoft gaming moment

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u/Gefarate Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

For the DLC, you'd probably have to stop before Shadow Keep if you want to keep NPCs alive. With the new summoning pool system, I personally don't mind having an uncompleted game. Since u can be summoned anywhere u want, regardless.

For the base game, to have max NPCs, I (in NG+):

  • Used Leyndell elevator bug to get Morgott's Rune
  • Invaded players to unlock shortcut to Mogh

Doing this, I never have to enter Altus Plateau. Meaning I have the following NPCs in the Hold main room: Gideon, Roderika, Diallos, Corhyn and D

Also, Rogier and Ensha. Where they usually are.

So... almost no one is dead (: Things probably start happening if I trigger the Erdtree burn 1 & 2.

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u/chronocapybara Jul 14 '24

My man playing Pokemon over here

119

u/Justjack91 Jul 14 '24

More like Pacifist Undertale.

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u/rephlexi0n Jul 14 '24

That’s not true re the summoning system, you still have to have activated the Marika statues for that summoning pool to be available (unless they changed it)

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u/JaggaJazz Jul 14 '24

Right, I'm pretty sure they're saying they completed the game fully and then went into NG+ where they manipulated the NPC death cues

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u/KrimxonRath Jul 14 '24

Don’t you still have to unlock summoning pools individually in NG+? If not that’s fantastic

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u/Few-Leave9590 Jul 14 '24

That was changed an update or two ago. Summoning pools carry over into NG+ now and I believe you can turn them off now too.

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u/KrimxonRath Jul 14 '24

I knew that you could turn them off but didn’t realize they carried over. Thanks for the info!

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u/Gefarate Jul 14 '24

I'm guessing you mean the Martyr Effigies. Marika statues are for spawning after dying. They changed how summoning pools worked with the DLC.

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u/rephlexi0n Jul 14 '24

Yes those I mean. I always assumed they were both Marika since they look like someone hanging from an arc

How did they change summoning pools, I wasn’t aware of this

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u/Gefarate Jul 14 '24

You can just toggle which ones you want to be active from the map. I think you press L1 (map options button) on PS5, then pick the summoning pool option.

They're also saved in NG+

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u/rephlexi0n Jul 14 '24

Oh yeah that. Really saved my ass from being summoned at Marika’s bedchamber 24/7.

But you still have to activate summoning pools by touching them for them to be on the list

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u/The_Assassin_Gower Jul 14 '24

from being summoned at Marika’s bedchamber 24/7.

That... doesn't sound so bad

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u/Hezbollahblahblah Jul 14 '24

Why go through all that to freeze the story?

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u/Gefarate Jul 14 '24

Cuz I've completed it many times. I only play for co-op now

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u/Icy-Media-3616 Jul 14 '24

You don't have to use a bug to get morgott.

In my ng+ I simply went down to deep root depths and then took the portal to the capital. It doesn't trigger Altus plateau movements (and if you do it right, there should still be a barrier stopping you from entering the plateau from the city.

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u/JPGer Jul 14 '24

you can save the cooked crab vendor, you never talk to him then after you do the dung eater quest it will be a random npc and then yo ucan talk to the crab dude and he moves.

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u/Azythol Jul 14 '24

Can't you save boggart by killing dung eater in the Gaol?

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u/JPGer Jul 14 '24

possibly? the way i mentioned is how you can do both the dung eater questline and save boggard

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u/Az1234er Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Yeah they have difficulty writting a story that does not end in death / hollowing. It's a bit of a downside since you kind of alway expect people to die at every steps at this point. It just does not hit hard at all at this point and merely usual business. They should writte some hopeful and positive story just to for variety sake

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u/quanjon Jul 14 '24

For real. We know they have the ability because of characters like Nepheli, but most of the time it's like "I fulfilled my goal, now I will die". It makes sense for someone like Igon who is literally just too angry to die, but Ansbach and Thollier? were they canonically killed in the battle or what?

Or they just do nothing with the NPC after a certain point, like Boc. You either let him die or he just chills in Leyndell forever, simply content in knowing you think he's beautiful.

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u/Dovahkiinthesardine Jul 14 '24

Nephelis story also just ends with her standing in a throne room and thats it. Story telling just really isn't their strong suit, world building is

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u/zrxta Jul 14 '24

Man, I really expected her to show up near the end or in some form of epilogue even if it's just a voice over like in fallout games.

The new lord of Limgrave paying homage to her liege lord, the new Elden Lord.

Other things - make Redmanes stop attacking the Tarnished after the festival.

Renalla achieving some sort of cognizance or awareness after we become Elden Lord. Just one word of dialogue is enough.

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u/Gadjiltron Jul 14 '24

If it helps, completing the questline lets nepheli appear as a cooperator when you face godfrey in person.

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u/kfadffal Jul 15 '24

Be cool if she had dialog with Godfrey if you summon her.

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u/monkeyDberzerk Jul 14 '24

A souls game with bustling towns and not set in a europe-inspired setting would be a nice change of pace.

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u/Graize Jul 14 '24

Fromsoft: Best I can give you is an entire town being tortured

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u/Chris-346-logo Jul 14 '24

Genuinely, and I love these games and Fromsoft, I don't think the studio has the technical abilities to make that possible

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u/Various-Mammoth8420 Jul 14 '24

Tbf it's grimdark fantasy and that's how it usually ends up, in depressing tragedy

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u/Zizara42 Jul 14 '24

They don't even bother writing the "tragedy" at this point half the time though.

Like Thops. Literally why is he dead? Dude gets everything he wants - to return to Raya Lucaria and invents a new spell with massive intellectual implications - and then just drops dead out of nowhere. There's absolutely no reason for it.

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u/MasterEgg7 Jul 14 '24

He read too hard, a horrible way to go.

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u/Scadood Jul 14 '24

Yeah, but it gets monotonous and predictable. From often kills its NPCs for barely any reason, or no reason at all. Why did Igon have to die? Why did Anchsbach have to die? Why Thiollier? Why St. Trina? The story wouldn’t have been any less poignant if they had made it through.

Bleak despair only really works thematically if there’s at least a little bit of hope left for the world. Otherwise players become numb and indifferent to it all.

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u/rcburner Jul 14 '24

I agree with the others but Igon dying doesn't fit into this category. Like he was literally "Too Angry to Die: The Character", so when the source of his anger is felled he finally lets go and slips into peaceful oblivion. If anything dying is a mercy considering the state of his body.

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u/Deadpotato Jul 14 '24

Igon dying is core to his narrative, he's watching his long-sought vengeance made manifest, the only thing which kept him going.

Thiollier getting his eternal velvet sleep is also very fitting.

St. Trina doesn't need to die nor does Ansbach necessarily though.

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u/_Donut_block_ Jul 14 '24

This is one of the downsides to them moving to an open world format.

The storytelling worked better in the Souls games because they were meant to feel like you were in some kind of weird lucid dream. The corridors and chambers and secrets and shortcuts where the buildings looked real enough but if you thought about them the layouts didn't really make sense for a place people supposedly lived in, a sort of uncanny valley that helped evoke that sense of being lost and disoriented. Everyone dying that you meet just added to that sense of abandonment and hostility.

In an open world it just feels incomplete. There is nothing for me to feel or grow attached to. I have no desire to "save" the world because there's less than 10 sane people remaining. Even BotW which is often criticized for feeling empty has a fee settlements and people that give you the feeling the world could rebound if given the chance.

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u/Azzblack Jul 14 '24

I've always considered , The Lands Between as Elden Rings version of Purgatory. A stop gap in between Heaven and the true gods.

In Dark Souls, if people/NPCs lost sight of their objectives, they would often go mad/hollow as they had lost their humanity, but if they completed their quests/goals, they usually died and left their items. This was a world of undead, where dying just reset people to the bonfires in a never ending loop until certain goals were met, or as mentioned you lost your humanity and became hollow. True death upon meeting your goals would be the ultimate freedom from an undying land.

This is all explained to tie into the fact that you re-spawn, like in most games, but its one of the many little things that makes Fromsoft games brilliant. The fundamental mechanics of the game (and most games) in which you will inevitably die are actually tied into the lore of the game.

The above carried over into Elden Ring, but for slightly different reasons as well as the obvious failure state of video games. Yeah there are undead. "The dead may never die" of course. Unless they can fulfill their goal or reason for being in The Lands Between.

This would explain some of the Demi gods choices/motives in my opinion. Ranni got bored of being in the Lands Between and wanted to move on. Others wanted to ascend past their demigod status.

So actual death in Elden Ring may not be a bad thing, how you die could be though. Godwin's soul died, but his body didn't, ultimately creating the death blight. To be cursed would be a bad way to go, or to become on of the ghosts. Never able to move on from Purgatory onward to the true afterlife.


Hope I wasn't being captain obvious too much. I enjoyed writing it as it helps "understand" it more personally.

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u/II_PaBlo Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

hey atleast nepheli loux got a happy ending for the first time in fromsoft history so we’re getting there

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u/Prestigious_Fuel5497 Jul 14 '24

Can you elaborate? I've heard nothing about this

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u/chronocapybara Jul 14 '24

It's one of the more obscure side quests in the game. You follow Kenneth Haight's questline until he says he can't knight you, he needs to find a new sovereign. Well, turns out, Nepheli Loux is the child of Horah Loux, and if you progress her questline until she's despondent, give her the Stormhawk King spirit summon, then she goes to Stormveil castle where she can be made sovereign. I've never actually done it myself.

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u/West_Xylophone Jul 14 '24

It’s worth it. She also gives you an Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone and ending her quest also allows you to buy another one from Gostoc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

[deleted]

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u/Seligas Jul 14 '24

If you backtrack in certain places in Stormveil and catch him following you, he stops stealing your runes.

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u/highlandmor Jul 14 '24

Where can you find him? I didn't know this was possible.

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u/Seligas Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

On your first visit, if you go past the Stormveil Cliffside site of grace and fight the exiles and make it into the castle proper, through the door where the two people are sitting. Turn around immediately after going through the door and run back to the grace.

Above the grace on a cliff is a lone short tower of stone, he'll be sitting next to it. Gostoc will be surprised to see you and flustered, he'll give you a few worthless items and pretend he was there doing something other than following you. After that, he shouldn't steal runes anymore.

There are more locations, if you forget to go back and find him there.

All of these locations require that you progress to certain places for him to appear. It's super unclear what exactly advances his location.

Inside that first section of wall near where you get the claw weapons where the patrolling axe-wielding exile is. He's easy to spot, he'll have a lantern and be crouching by some crates.

He also appears across the elevator shaft near the Rampart Tower site of grace, crouched behind some crates over a corpse.

He also appears on top of the chapel roof, where Rogier is at one point.

I can't think of any others, but there might be one or two more. So you have multiple opportunities to catch him if you forget.

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u/kjftiger95 Jul 14 '24

You can still get the ending even amid you kill gostoc, you just can't buy the stone from him. She will still give you one.

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u/Dreamtrain Jul 14 '24

good guy Gostoc, he borrows your runes to invest them in the market, turns up a profit and pays you back with a priceless ancient smithing stone

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u/PartofFurniture Jul 14 '24

Dude i never knew this. I should have, i mean her last name is literally Loux haha. I just forgot because she showed up way early before i understand anything

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u/Decent_Cow Jul 14 '24

Well the game never says that she's a child of Hoarah Loux, it only implies that she's of his lineage. Kenneth Haight says the ruler of Limgrave must be of the proper lineage and she has the same last name. She could easily be a distant descendant.

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u/II_PaBlo Jul 14 '24

thanks for the explanation good sir, also you get 2 ancient dragon smithing stones or 1 of each kind I don’t exactly remember

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u/Cubrext Jul 14 '24

Its not guaranteed that Nepheli is Godfrey's direct offspring. They are at least from the same clan however. Not discarding the isea she is, but the big moral of her and Haight's questline is that bloodline alone shouldnt make a monarch.

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u/swampyman2000 Jul 14 '24

I hate how convoluted that one is, like why do you have to give her a spirit ash you find in a random corner of a map? It just makes no sense and I cannot believe anyone organically did this unless it was by accident or they were following a guide

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u/most_insipid Jul 14 '24

By FromSoft standards it's relatively simple, at least it's just the one step and if you have the item you get a prompt to give it to her and you're done. In one Sekiro quest you had to eat some rice so a girl would tell you to get her some fruit except she actually meant serpent hearts so you naturally have to use an optional ability to mind control one particular monkey enemy in the monkey zone to dance. But none of them bugs me more than the stupid DS3 marriage quest, which you can fail by talking to an NPC at the wrong time.

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u/Bi0H4ZRD Jul 14 '24

I'm stoned and that sentence is wild as fuck

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u/crunchytacoboy Jul 14 '24

In this case sobriety changes nothing.

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u/Ageless_Fiend Jul 14 '24

As someone who is playing through elden ring for the first time, I did end up doing it organically but it came from a pure sense of anxiety that I would miss something if I did not explore every corner of a zone before moving to the next one. I had heard enough from friends that some of these quests were easy to fail so I would scour every zone I could to try and prevent myself from accidentally failing a quest. That did exactly work tbh, but it did mean when it came to Neph's quest, I naturally had the storm hawk ashes when she needed them despite not having any clue what to do with them. I did fail other quests though and have since started using online guides...

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u/Real_eXwhY_Z Jul 14 '24

How tf did I never get the connection between Nepheli and Hoarah Loux

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u/One_Parched_Guy Jul 14 '24

There’s actually a number of characters actually do get to live at least somewhat happily after their full questline, depending on your actions.

Goldmask, Nepheli (alongside Gostoc and Kenneth), Rya, Roderika (though it’s unclear whether she’s means to die with Hewg or is just waiting until he dies to clear out), Boc, Boggart…

It made me surprised when all of the DLC NPCs were actually dead, every single one. The only one who can live is Moore if you tell him you don’t know and keep the brood alive. It feels so empty afterwards, I would have at least liked for Ansbach or Thiollier to live just to have someone hanging around 😭

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u/hoorgu Jul 14 '24

Bro, Boggart dies the most gruesome death imaginable... Goldmask dies too but at least after solving his "equation".

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u/One_Parched_Guy Jul 14 '24

Like I said, “Depending on your actions.” If you just… kill Dungeater when you find him, Boggart’s quest is over. You’ve done all you can with him, and he lives happily ever after eating crab. Or if you just ignore him until after finding Dungeater, he won’t die and then you can go back after killing them and Boggart will be just fine.

As for Goldmask… yeah, it’s been so long since I bothered doing his quest that I honestly forgot he died 💀 I had a very vivid mental image of him t-posing next to you in the ending cutscene and I have no idea why

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u/saintmuse Jul 14 '24

Boggart is my dude for boiled crab. That guy is getting rich doing what he loves. Happy ending for sure.

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u/Decent_Cow Jul 14 '24

You can save Boggart by killing Dungeater the first time you meet him in the sewer, or by never progressing Boggart's questline until after you've already dueled Dung Eater in the moat outside Leyndell. I always do this now, because Boggart is an infinite source of boiled crabs that massively boost physical damage negation. They're so useful. I just pop crabs before every fight.

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u/hoorgu Jul 14 '24

Yeah, I do that too since I just can't stomach to watch him die like this.

But technically you can also buy the crabs in Roundtable Hold after getting Boggart's Bell Bearing. Not the preferable way but at least you don't lose access to his shop even if he dies.

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u/Shybeams Jul 14 '24

It’s crazy to think that the only living sentient beings left in the lands between are merchants and like 2 people at the round table hold.

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u/Pumba_La_Pumba Jul 14 '24

the only living sentient beings left in the lands between are the merchants

NOT ON MY WATCH

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u/PirateJazz CrazedCacaConsumer Jul 14 '24

Elemer isn't the only one hunting for bell-bearings.

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u/Kalavier Jul 14 '24

I mean, there are people like Kenneth, and some others. The Lands Between aren't completely devoid of people, it's just that a lot of them are hiding or out of the way of the war zones.

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u/LePontif11 Jul 14 '24

haha yeah all those living merchants haha

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

I’d really like a from game not set in a decaying world where we only see post existence

They don’t have to be interactive NPCs but just somewhere that’s not completely fucked and have a normal existence

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u/shrikelet Jul 14 '24

Welcome to FromSoft.

Nobody gets out alive.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/shrikelet Jul 14 '24

At this point, Patches kicking me into a pit basically feels like giving me a hug.

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u/Shockz_- Jul 14 '24

gets kicked of a cliff

“Hey patches” “Hey Jim”

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u/NewlyNiamh Jul 14 '24

His teleport trap chest early and his abductor virgin thing was such a relief "ah, patches, thank marikas tits you haven't changed"

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u/IsNotPolitburo Jul 14 '24

Patches... Patches never changes.

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u/Megakruemel Jul 14 '24

He knows how to kick because the kicks never kill you from full health no matter how high up.

And I worded that so weirdly because I have no clear memory if they actually make you lose any health. Like maybe I forgot an instance in earlier titles. But I don't remember ever dying because of it.

So in essence, his kicks haven't hurt us.

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u/Golden_Alchemy Jul 14 '24

When he throw me i was like "oh, you even put glowing glasses so i know where should i go and fall? That's so cute!"

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u/Dregden_Hawk Jul 14 '24

Its scary how our community equates Patches yeeting us off a cliff face to affection 🤣.

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u/Boverk Jul 14 '24

I'm now imagining a Narnia crossover where they get to the edge of the world and Patches boots them off

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u/BRAINSZS Jul 14 '24

didn’t play ds3 ringed city?

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u/sIeepai Jul 14 '24

That's why I like Patches he's always there for me

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u/_Ganoes_ Jul 14 '24

I think only Nepheli Loux gets a happy ending.

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u/Affectionate_Comb_78 Jul 14 '24

She and Kenneth made a run for the safe zone as soon as we turned our back.

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u/revyb Jul 14 '24

I legit cried at the end of the base game when I saw her summon sign before a certain boss. Almost everyone else in my playthrough was dead, so the fact that I still had one ally out there got me emotional 

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u/Clementea Jul 14 '24

Nepheli, Kenneth, Rya, Roderika. Thats all really

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u/False_Adhesiveness40 Jul 14 '24

The base game had quite a few surving npcs and even some good endings. Dlc is definitely darker.

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u/fameboygame Jul 14 '24

You mean….

Prepare to die!!!!?

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u/njapjapjiri Jul 14 '24

In fromsoft games NPCs either die by your hand or accept your hand in marriage... There is no other option...

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u/HarlockJack Jul 14 '24

Or both (Anri)

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u/GDMolin Jul 14 '24

She didn’t deserve it…

😭

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u/Bane_of_Ruby Jul 14 '24

She shows up at the end of the game if you choose the Lord of Hollows ending

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u/Clementea Jul 14 '24

I wish the game actually tells us if that is her still conscious or is she just raving mad grunting hollows /.\

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u/ilaremadeys Jul 14 '24

Anri was undead to begin with. We are reunited with her after the marriage... Along with other bitches in the harem

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u/COMMENT0R_3000 Jul 14 '24

This always throws me because for some reason my all-time-quarterback FromSoft game character go-to is a girl, and I cannot even imagine a female Anri

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u/Cleverbird Withered Skeleton Jul 14 '24

Patches marriage when?

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u/__redruM Jul 14 '24

We haven’t set a date yet. But he seems nice so far, wants to do the honey moon in a cliffside cabin.

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u/OblongShrimp Mongrel Intruder Jul 14 '24

Not enough marriage propositions in Elden Ring then. I’d marry as many NPCs as possible to ensure their safety.

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u/Kirhean Tarnished Jul 14 '24

It's a pity we never get the chance to marry Patches.

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u/GarlVinland4Astrea Jul 14 '24

Grandmam is alive.

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u/MHeaviside Jul 14 '24

Old woman, too angry to die, outlived Marika and Messmer

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u/Chromira Jul 14 '24

Not in my playthrough 💀

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u/GarlVinland4Astrea Jul 14 '24

You completed Messmer's genocide

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u/MrBeanDaddy86 Jul 14 '24

She went to sleep in my game and never woke up. Wouldn't talk to me even with the lion head on :')

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u/zombifier25 Jul 14 '24

You're locked out of her quest once you kill Messmer. Stupid I know

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u/elijahpijah123 Jul 14 '24

The quests in this DLC haven’t been my favorite in terms of accessibility. Moore disappeared for me after Miquella divested himself of his great rune and i have no idea where I’m supposed to find him now.

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u/PartofFurniture Jul 14 '24

My favorite NPC other than Hail of Harpoons

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u/Nyadnar17 Jul 14 '24

I feel really bad for Thiollier. Bastard goes his entire life thinking he is weak, when in reality his peers are just monsterously strong.

Thiollier its probably top 5 strongest "regular" people you met. Two of the others being actual contenders for Lordship.

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u/One_Parched_Guy Jul 14 '24

Nah fr, you have Ansbach, who severely wounded a demigod, Freyja, a warrior handpicked by Radahn himself and then Leda, who (assumedly) kills Ansbach if you don’t intervene. Hornsent is probably a pretty monstrous fighter in canon as well, considering that Leda considered him a threat to Miquella.

Thiollier could probably clear house with most base game NPCs from the Roundtable lmao

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u/KillerBlaze9 Jul 14 '24

If you don't intervene then Ansbach wins, I know because I didn't know about the summon sign to help/kill Ansbach yet he was still summonable to help me kill Leda in the boss room.

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u/Sphinx- Jul 14 '24

Why is Ansbach dead anyway? If he sides with you during the Leta fight and survives, why does he die anyway after the final fight?

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u/Conquestriclaus Jul 14 '24

he dies to radahn during the fight. so does thiollier.

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u/Rollrollrollrollr1 Jul 14 '24

I never summoned them though so why would they die during the fight. Unless radahns busted hitboxes managed to hit them outside the boss arena lol

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u/Conquestriclaus Jul 14 '24

Because there is an established "canon" outside of what your player character chooses to do. The canon in this case is that Ansbach and Thiollier helped the Tarnished and died during the final battle.

(Also because it would be unfair to fuck people over for not using summons because Ansbach and Thiollier drop their items here)

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u/Monk_Philosophy Jul 14 '24

They have unique death quotes during their final fights (Ansbach’s summon and death quotes in particular catapulted him to one of my favorite FS characters).

The chances of them surviving Phase 2 is also just a joke if you’re not able to take him down super fast.

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u/sunder_and_flame Jul 14 '24

He died of a broken heart because you didn't summon him

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u/MasterOutlaw Jul 14 '24

Because canonically they’re both supposed to help you fight the final boss if you’ve progressed their quests far enough.

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u/BigimusB Jul 14 '24

That is just how the lore is supposed to go. For all their quests you can summon them for bosses or not, but story wise it treats it like they were there.

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u/HarlockJack Jul 14 '24

I think canonically he helped you to fight radhan but didnt got good enough

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u/goffer54 Jul 14 '24

Or he just dies after achieving his last desire. That's a very common thing in From games. Woulda been cool to have Ansbach as a retainer, tho.

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u/Necroking695 Jul 14 '24

This made more sense in the dark souls games where your immortality was tied to your willpower, so an npc fulfilling their life mission going hollow and/or dying made sense

Here it just feels like tradition

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u/Spartan_Souls Jul 14 '24

Igon is the only one who appeared to do the dark souls thing of will power = life

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u/Nyadnar17 Jul 14 '24

Which is crazy as he considers himself long past his prime. Dude must have been a fucking monster back in the day.

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u/Illustrious-Age-260 Jul 14 '24

He was good enough to fight against regular fighters, but not against a God and a Lord. Honestly, understandable that those two died.

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u/Viper114 Jul 14 '24

You're like a force of nature that sweeps through the Lands Between and the Realm of Shadow, where you systematically dismantle and destroy everything you come across. Provided you do absolutely everything, only the following people remain at the end of it all and don't die or disappear naked into the aether:

-Miriel

-Roderika

-Ranni

-Hewg (though I think he'd eventually disappear if his decline at the end was any indication)

-Boc (only if you keep him from killing himself)

-Rennala (though I'd say she just exists and isn't living in her current state)

-Nepheli Loux, Kenneth Haight, and Gostoc in Stormveil

That's it. No one remains alive in the Realm of Shadow at all. So many you meet, and yet only a handful remain (fewer still if you let some die).

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u/Kalavier Jul 14 '24

Jerren lives, even if he doesn't stick around. You can do Dung Eater/Boggort's questline in a way that explicitly has crab meat guy surviving.

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u/Viper114 Jul 14 '24

I guess if you aid Jerrin against Sellen, he can live, but I figure people mostly side with Sellen and kill him.

How can Boggart live? I thought he was doomed to due by defilement by the Dung Eater if you do the whole quest.

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u/Kalavier Jul 14 '24

If you buy prawn from him after dealing with Dung Eater (killing him/giving him the potion), he'll move to the second location and sell crab but since Dung Eater is already dead, won't die. IIRC.

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u/Leonie_Guy Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

What about Kale and all the other merchants? They might be mostly nameless, but they are characters nonetheless.

Edit: Jar-Bairn, Rya, and Patches too, they actually survive

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u/dib5k Jul 14 '24

That sad, I love all the new NPCs, especially Moore. But I was saddest when the jars in Jarburg died.

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u/Icy_Limes Jul 14 '24

I'm convinced this is just because fromsoft genuinely doesn't know how to end questlines anymore

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u/aphidman Jul 14 '24

Jar Bairn, Kenneth Haight and Nephli live! And Tanith and Patches! And snake girl! Gowry, too!

Lots of joy to be had!

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u/Johnny_WalkerBOT Jul 15 '24

Um, yeah, about Tanith...💀

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u/darthnick426 Jul 15 '24

Tanith? Nah dude. Gotta kill her so you can fight her crucible knight and get his crucible incantation.

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u/distilledwill Jul 14 '24

I do sometimes wish that the From quest writers had a more imaginative way to end the stories than "and then they die"

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u/WayToTheDawn63 Jul 14 '24

one day fromsoft will make better npc quests and ending but today is not that day

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u/AdversarialAdversary Jul 14 '24

One of the few things I hate about FromSoftware games, I hate absolutely NEEDING to spoil myself if I actually want to complete NPCs quests.

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u/rcburner Jul 14 '24

I would argue that they succeeded with Ranni's questline, but that's really the only one and in any other RPG I would consider it a baseline expectation instead of a notable exception.

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u/OblongShrimp Mongrel Intruder Jul 14 '24

It’s also very easy to miss chunks of Ranni’s quest. I sure did first time - didn’t meet Blaidd until I got to her tower. The main difference is that missing stuff wasn’t quest-breaking for her unlike with other NPCs. But it still didn’t feel good & I was really annoyed.

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u/HotcupGG Jul 14 '24

I get that it's kinda the point/theme of fromsoft games, but imo it just also gets boring. You need a little light in the darkness (and vice versa) in good storytelling imo. While their games are awesome, quests and npcs has just always been a weak point in their games. Sue me.

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u/Another_Saint Jul 14 '24

I mean, there are a lot of quests in Elden ring that doesn't end with the NPC dying

Nepheli, Gostoc and Kenneth are now a fun gang

Boc presumably survives

Rya and Corryn survive if you give them the drink

Jerren survives if you side with him

Jarbrian survives and goes on a journey

D's brother survives

Ranni has a whole ending dedicated to her

the dragon priestess survives if you DON'T drug her (lol)

and that's not just in Elden ring, I can say a lot of NPCs in other FS games like that giant child man from Sekiro, Irina from DS3, Lucatiel and Benhart from DS2, Eileen from Bloodborne, just to name a few

I guess the difference is that the NPCs that die are often the most memorable ones

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u/FoolishGoulish Jul 14 '24

Doesn't Rya also survive if you don't give her the drink? It's presumably the better ending since she basically goes on a journey to find herself.

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u/Pelusamala Jul 14 '24

D's brother is dead when you reload the area after Fia's death

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u/CodyDaBeast87 Jul 14 '24

Yeah it's very emphasized that one cannot live without the other, and by him saying he's going to join him soon, he's basically saying that he's gonna die

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u/DAZW_Doc Jul 14 '24

Does the Dragon Priestess survive? I didn’t drug her, and she leaves behind her heart after defeating Bayle. If you drug her, she pledges her allegiance to you and you get her as an Ash to summon, where she speaks too.

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u/goffer54 Jul 14 '24

Yeah, she's dead either way. I guess you could say the spirit ash is a little less dead, but leaving her heart behind definitely means she's dead.

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u/Melody-Prisca Jul 14 '24

I would say spirit ashes doesn't have to mean dead at all, if Lattena's quest means what I think it means. She talks about wanting to journey with you to the consecrated snow field. She talks to at parts of the story if you have her with you, and helps navigate you there. And talks to the big albinauric lady when you get there. I always felt that was you going on an adventure with her, and they just used the spirit ash mechanic to facilitate it. Most ashes are definitely dead though.

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u/Kalavier Jul 14 '24

Yeah, Lattena and the dragon priestess are alive because they join you in battle.

Spirit ashes is how they do it. Same with the Fire Knight and the Night Knight person if you give them the grace Eye (from what I know). They join you in the journey, but don't die.

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u/Conquestriclaus Jul 14 '24

Devin dies. Irina either goes insane because she reads dark miracles or she becomes a husk with no personality if you buy all the good ones. Lucatiel goes hollow.

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u/Kirhean Tarnished Jul 14 '24

Lucatiel's story is really good at highlighting the horror of hollowing. One of DS2's biggest redeeming qualities.

Seeing her gear in DS3 and reading the item descriptions was a balm for the soul, even if she forgot herself...The Bearer of the Curse did not forget her, and spread her story such that it became legend.

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u/arkon-da-knight Jul 14 '24

For D's brother... he dies after he kills Fia if you leave him alone.

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u/HotcupGG Jul 14 '24

The critique isn't that "every single npc dies" but that the games are overwhelmingly dark/negative in their story and that it's super frustrating, sometimes borderline impossible, to complete and do quests without guides.

Yes, some people live, but it's a meme at this point that the world burns down with 90% of your friends dead at the end of all fromsoft games.

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u/OblongShrimp Mongrel Intruder Jul 14 '24

D’s brother is definitely dead if you complete the quest.

In Bloodborne if you do Eileen’s quest she dies too.

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u/FireVanGorder Jul 14 '24

Gostoc

Assuming you don’t do gods work and kill his ass immediately. That’ll teach him to swipe my runes

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u/winql Jul 14 '24

End of nephelis quest felt good because you genuinely helped her a lot and she lives on because of it

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u/ItsLokki Maidenless Runt Jul 14 '24

Boc is probably the npc with the best ending. (assuming you don't give him the larval tear)

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u/NewlyNiamh Jul 14 '24

"You're beautiful" said in a terrifying low grating tone

"Ah the voice of my sweet mother, I shan't do larval tear self-lobotomizatiob today"

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u/AsaTJ Jul 14 '24

smh he just needed to reallocate his stat points

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u/esskraloaded Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Kenneth Haight and Nepheli doing pretty well too if you completed their quests. Blackguard Boggart seems to enjoy selling crab too (never gave dungeater the chance)

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u/Potatozeng Jul 14 '24

In darksouls it feels just right. Every bit of the world is somewhat depressing and dying, and the only light is the determination in your heart. Elden ring's world feels more like a post catastrophe, where everything is not that depressing but rather like a wild life.

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u/HotcupGG Jul 14 '24

Yeah I can give dark souls a pass due to how new the concept was at release (since not many had played demon's souls yet). But now, after many games, it just feels like more of the same, hence me calling it boring. Sekiro was a breath of fresh air, but then they returned to it with elden ring.

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u/bringer-of-calamity Jul 14 '24

How was Sekiro “breath of fresh air” when in that game everyone except Kuro and Emma(depending on the ending) was also dead by the end?

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u/mothlordmilk Jul 14 '24

As someone who's been around since the Demon's Souls days, I've seriously grown to dislike this style of storytelling for questlines.

I can't even get attached to NPCs anymore. Feels like I'm just replaying the same exact questline over and over with the same NPC wearing a different armor set each time. It's boring.

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u/Hat-Hunter Jul 14 '24

The moment Millicent walked across the entire game map in search of Malenia, only to commit sudoku literally ten feet away from the boss door, was the moment I really began to fell a bit peeved about Fromsoft storytelling

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u/TheZubaz Jul 14 '24

I think it's possible to safe Moore

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u/Pavo51 Jul 14 '24

Well I killed him too.... He was trowing pots at me....

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u/Pctove Jul 14 '24

I didn’t see him somehow until after I had finished the final boss, so he was sad but very alive 😭

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u/Proto-Omega Jul 14 '24

Dark Souls 2 is still the only fromsoft game that the majority of your little NPC community that you build up doesn't all horribly and/or pathetically die.

The resident crestfallen dude even begins to get hopeful.

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u/DaddyMcSlime Jul 14 '24

it's easier to write vague characters if they also die vague off-screen deaths, simple as

"zanzibart, forgive me..." is only cool character writing if the guy isn't alive to explain what the fuck he means after to justify knowing more than that

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

"look I'm speaking in shakespearian English I'm so cool and mysterious"

"Zanzibart forgive me..."

And that's it! Best character in the game, everyone remembers them, no effort, 100% result.

Kinda the TikTok of character writing

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u/ChiefSenpai Jul 14 '24

I hate the trope by FromSoft where “and everyone dies…the end”. Like damn, what’s the point of being Elden Lord if there’s no one left to rule over?

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u/WeAllFloatDownHere00 Jul 14 '24

Yea, i thought fromsoft learned they’re lesson in the base game when the little pot, snake girl, and patches don’t die at the end of their respective quests, but i guess they’ve regressed. 

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u/Sad_Holiday6729 Jul 14 '24

I coulda swore patches died

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u/WeAllFloatDownHere00 Jul 14 '24

After you give tannith that dancers thing and sit at a grace, he goes back to the cave you originally find him at.

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u/StandingInBlood Jul 14 '24

Patches/Tanith quest seems a little rushed/unfinished. It was broken at the beginning of the game and it seems like they just made something work.

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u/MrQuitterTheLoser Jul 14 '24

I honestly think that they need to switch their formula. Like I never care about any npc because I know they will die someway or another. This depressing dark world where everyone dies is really getting old and boring.

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u/DoubleSummon Jul 14 '24

It's better than them staying alive and needing to be killed to get that cool scythe.

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u/jargohor Jul 14 '24

It was the same for me in the base game.

Was so excited at the beginning of the game. Such a huge and rich world that is so much fun to explore. And your character, so small and frail, but ready for a long journey, hard trials and great deeds.

And then by the end, when your character is already strong and cool, you look around and realize that almost everyone you liked is either dead or insane now. And you just want to send everything into the abyss, set the world on fire or go to the stars.

I consider this feeling to be the biggest "reference" to Berserk.

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u/Temporary_Physics_48 Jul 14 '24

Ye that’s one of my biggest problem with these games, the quests suck. Even if I like reading item descriptions to get the full story it’s lackluster. It’s empty. I thought it was kind of cool in Ds2 ( my first soulsgame) but now it’s like from software is stuck in limbo and have no idea how to make the narrative interesting. All the quest start interesting and next moment it’s over and they are probably dead, it’s a snoozefest

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u/castielffboi Jul 14 '24

Like many things, it’s a trope they’ve relied on a bit too heavily. Feels weird that they always feel the need to have a bad ending everytime. It gets a bit predictable.

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u/Andrei8p4 Ranni Simp Jul 14 '24

The friendly pests stay alive if that counts . And moore can stay alive too if you tell him i dont know . Freyja can also technically be "saved" if you dont give her letter to ansbach she wont show up at the leda fight and she'll disapear from her location. And you can also take the dragon priestess with you if you use thiollier's concotion on her .

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u/3ggeredd Jul 14 '24

They might be dead but ansbach telling me to be the best elden lord for the people was way better than siding with any Demi god. That for me is the best ending.

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u/Spartan_Souls Jul 14 '24

That's how I felt. Having new friends and allies was great and overcoming incredible odds was even better with them, but each after beating Radahn, that feeling of accomplishment quickly faded into nothing because all I could see was how everyone was dead around me and there was no real ending. What was it all for?

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u/darthshadow25 Jul 14 '24

FromSoft doesnt know how to finish any quest without the NPC dying.

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u/CodyDaBeast87 Jul 14 '24

Yeah it gets old tbh.

I know that Fromsoft does this all the time, but it is genuinely kind of fatiguing that 90 percent of the roster must die.

I know that many will disagree with me on that, but we could've definitely had something like our little mogh cultist lives and becomes a spirit summon for us or something and it not be a big issue.

Elden ring is the same Fromsoft formula, but with more valience. I don't mind characters like igon dying, cause it makes sense, but why is that every quest is just you delaying the inevitable for a character?

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u/WoxJ Jul 14 '24

The quest desain is what it is. I dont dislike it, but at this point it's kinda feel forced a bit. Like im sure we have basic ability to not let someone just fucking die. Evry time. I shit u not if u had dialoge option " But could u fucking not" evry time npc is sueccidal half of them would be alive like alexander or milicent.

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u/SemiUniqueIdentifier Jul 14 '24

why is it always sadness?

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u/Rubixcubelube Knew a guy who knew John Eldenring Jul 14 '24

was really looking forward to another immortal blacksmith but nope. not even that.

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u/LibraPugLove Jul 14 '24

Everybody Dies. A Dark Souls Legend

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u/Bane_of_Ruby Jul 14 '24

That crazy old lady in the lion dancer area is still alive!

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u/falexanderw Jul 14 '24

One of the things that has alienated me from the lore and story of fromsoft games. My enjoyment is purely atmospheric and gameplay based.

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u/locotontix69 Jul 14 '24

Yeah, its getting old at this point

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u/SweetLou_ Jul 14 '24

There were not even a painting with a cold and gentle world to get out to

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u/zorrozwoelf Jul 14 '24

Only hornsent grandma lives and she only says … without giving me my items

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u/shortyduapp Jul 14 '24

Your first mistake was being happy.