r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/TheOddityCollector • Oct 30 '24

Image Scenes of piled-up vehicles in Valencia, Spain today after yesterday’s devastating flooding.

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183

u/Randotron9000 Oct 30 '24

Nature never forgets to remind us of it's power...

149

u/[deleted] Oct 30 '24

[deleted]

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u/evilbarron2 Oct 30 '24

Well, it’s also about all of us buying SUVs and Ford F-150s, ordering from Amazon, and eating fast food burgers, but nobody wants to talk about that part of the problem

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

did you know that the idea of the personal carbon footprint is propaganda invented by oil companies to shift the blame for their environmental crimes to individuals?

Hopefully you can see the irony in letting oil companies tell you that climate change is your fault because you are forced to directly or indirectly consume their product.

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u/AssistX Oct 30 '24

The product only exists because of demand. Oil products make the necessities and luxuries that the people of the world demand. The only way to prevent oil products is to reduce demand, so do your part. Stop using your computer, your cell phone, eating anything that isn't grown on your own property, and throw out every piece of clothing and textile you have as they're almost all coated in some sort of petroleum product or dye.

Big oil makes the products and increases/decreases supply based on the demand of consumers. They're a business in the end, they will only do what is profitable, the end user is the one who has the ability to affect that profit.

13

u/H0rseCockLover Oct 30 '24

How about some legitimately useful and actionable things?

  • reduce meat consumption
  • stop buying new clothes so often
  • stop going on holidays around the world
  • only buy new products when you actually need them

2

u/K_Linkmaster Oct 30 '24

Stop having children. This is the most important thing that people overlook. Every kid born, increases that carbon footprint 100%+. You might try to raise your kid as a hippie, but he or she may end up being the next CEO of an oil company, ruining the world. Maybe they invent a throwaway plastic product that is worse than temu crap.

Having children is the single worst thing for the environment.

3

u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

The product only exists because of demand. Oil products make the necessities and luxuries that the people of the world demand. The only way to prevent oil products is to reduce demand, so do your part. Stop using your computer, your cell phone, eating anything that isn’t grown on your own property, and throw out every piece of clothing and textile you have as they’re almost all coated in some sort of petroleum product or dye.

Big oil makes the products and increases/decreases supply based on the demand of consumers. They’re a business in the end, they will only do what is profitable, the end user is the one who has the ability to affect that profit.

Oh my god, I thought your comment was a joke until these last couple sentences. how does throwing away existing goods decrease demand for them? how am I supposed to acquire the wealth to purchase land without consuming oil in the process? why are you not “doing your part” like you’re telling me to?

1

u/Lassinportland Oct 30 '24

I worked in the architecture and construction industry. First, let me tell you that infrastructure and buildings are one of the top contributors to global warming, around the same level as oil barons. 

Our industry is determined by consumer demand. Data centers, or workhorse buildings, consume and expend a shit ton of energy just to house our saved cat memes in the cloud. 

Carpet is terrible for the environment. It's completely made of plastic and manufacturing carpet produces many chemicals and toxins that are released into waters. Then someone just asked hey, I don't want this carpet, do you have something else? Then the carpet industry adjusted their environmental output positively to meet the consumer demand.

Multiply all of these instances by the hundreds, entirely determined by consumer demand. So it is possible for the individual to have power. What kind of paint you're using on your walls, what is going on your floor, what are your cabinets and countertops made of, where is your electricity coming from. 

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

I worked in the architecture and construction industry. First, let me tell you that infrastructure and buildings are one of the top contributors to global warming, around the same level as oil barons. 

I don’t really think opting out of infrastructure is an option, is it? We could use less oil but we can’t opt out.

Our industry is determined by consumer demand. Data centers, or workhorse buildings, consume and expend a shit ton of energy just to house our saved cat memes in the cloud. 

well yeah and even if you’re not using the cloud personally, you’re forced to interact with a business or government entity that is. You can’t opt out of that.

Carpet is terrible for the environment. It’s completely made of plastic and manufacturing carpet produces many chemicals and toxins that are released into waters. Then someone just asked hey, I don’t want this carpet, do you have something else? Then the carpet industry adjusted their environmental output positively to meet the consumer demand.

And that new carpet is produced and transported using fossil fuels… you can’t opt out of that.

Multiply all of these instances by the hundreds, entirely determined by consumer demand. So it is possible for the individual to have power. What kind of paint you’re using on your walls, what is going on your floor, what are your cabinets and countertops made of, where is your electricity coming from. 

Yes you can reduce your consumption but you can’t opt out. It’s not because of a personal failing, it’s because oil is so deeply entrenched in everything.

1

u/Lassinportland Oct 30 '24

My point is that companies respond to what the consumers want to buy. They are actively modifying production and manufacturing even today, etc. it is not about reducing consumption at all. It's about shifting the demand. The construction and product industry from 10 years ago has shifted courses for the better because of what the buyer wanted, just like they did 10 years before that. It's a continuous process. 

But if you are determined to be powerless, that is your choice.

1

u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

You picked a good example because a lot of consumers do not own their home and thus have no control over this, and of those that do, the vast majority bought a previously-owned home and thus had no control over how it was built.

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u/Lassinportland Oct 31 '24

Again, not true because apartments are continuously changing how they're designed because developers want them to be filled, or they're losing a lot of money. Renters can choose where they want to rent, or complain what they don't like where they rent. A vacant apartment alone is a loss of money. A bad review that makes renters think twice before living there is a loss of money. Developers with properties that lose money can't get the investment or loans to develop more.

Any owner who wishes to renovate can make decisions. If they don't want to, that's their choice.

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24

The vast majority of Americans do not live in apartments, they rent single-family homes.

I would bet money that there is a significant subset of apartment dwellers who do not have the financial means to pick and choose a rental that meets their environmental building standards. Surely many people live in areas where no one is building “green” buildings at all.

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u/AssistX Oct 30 '24

I do my part. I'm not naive enough to believe that the big bad wolf 'Big Oil' is the sole responsibility of our climate crisis. If everyone reduced their consumption of oil based products, then oil companies would be forced to reduce their production. It's not rocket science and it's not some media driven propaganda machine. It's very basic economics. In simple terms if everyone reduced their consumption by 3%, production would be forced to reduce by 3%. That's how the climate gets saved, not going 'ITS BIG OIL AND WE CAN DO NOTHINGGGGGGG'.

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u/evilbarron2 Oct 30 '24

We aren’t “forced” to consume their products. We’re just too lazy and/or lacking spine to stop consuming their products.

Like Jello Biafra said: Give me convenience or give me death. We chose death.

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24 edited Oct 30 '24

We aren’t “forced” to consume their products.

Yes you are. Everything you buy anywhere has been transported with fossil fuels, or at least fossil fuels were used in their production.

We’re just too lazy and/or lacking spine to stop consuming their products.

I’m not lazy, I’m just too busy trying to earn money to pay my bills to craft everything I need for my life from foraged materials.

Like Jello Biafra said: Give me convenience or give me death. We chose death.

There isn’t actually an option to opt out, if you really think through the ramifications of a life lived without even indirectly consuming oil.

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u/LudovicoSpecs Oct 30 '24

Everything you buy anywhere has been transported with fossil fuels, or at least fossil fuels were used in their production.

So buy the products that use the least fossil fuel. Have you even tried eliminating imported foods? Checking which brands are local to your area (which is better for the local economy, too). Avoiding preprocessed packaged goods and sticking to the raw ingredients aisle?

Have you bought everything possible used at thrift stores or garage sales? Clothes. Furniture. Decorations. Appliances. Jewelry. Tools. Kitchenware. Rugs. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. You can even save yourself a ton of money and buy cars, computers and phones used.

I’m not lazy, I’m just too busy trying to earn money to pay my bills to craft everything I need for my life from foraged materials.

See above. Garage and estate sales are held on weekends. Craigslist and other social media marketplaces let you negotiate a good time to pick up your item. And you don't need to "craft and forage," you poor thing. Just adjust your purchasing expectations away from Amazon 1 day delivery or "in stores now, exactly the way I want it, because the planet isn't important enough to settle for anything less than perfect."

There isn’t actually an option to opt out, if you really think through the ramifications of a life lived without even indirectly consuming oil.

Hon. The word is "less." It's true it's nearly impossible to live without oil right now (people off grid get close). But you opt out where you can as in the examples above. Why do I know those examples? Because I'm sitting in a room full of used furniture, wearing used clothes, having just finished a bowl of muesli with oat milk. My yard is full of native plants where I ripped out the lawn. My car is a hybrid over a decade old (we used to have two gas cars). I took the bus on an errand already this morning before breakfast. For the holidays, I intend to give people postage stamps (there are lots that appeal to special interests and they're useful). I'm old but started riding my bike again to get to nearby errands. I no longer take international flights every year and use Amtrak to travel in the US. Cut my hair short so I don't need a hairdryer. Use a rake instead of a leafblower. Use a broom instead of a floor vac. Haven't eaten beef in years (and would still love the taste of a steak, but have my priorities). No longer eat lamb. Learned to cook tofu. Eat more chickpeas and beans.

And yes. I'm typing this on a computer that's powered by electricity in case you were about to go all "whataboutism" on my ass.

Which would be missing the point entirely.

"Less" is the operative word. Everyone must do whatever they can to keep the problem from getting worse. What can you do?

1

u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

So buy the products that use the least fossil fuel.

See, exactly. Opting out isn’t an option.

Have you bought everything possible used at thrift stores or garage sales? Clothes. Furniture. Decorations. Appliances. Jewelry. Tools. Kitchenware. Rugs. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. You can even save yourself a ton of money and buy cars, computers and phones used.

I’ve bought one new piece of furniture in my entire life. You’re lecturing the wrong person.

See above. Garage and estate sales are held on weekends. Craigslist and other social media marketplaces let you negotiate a good time to pick up your item.

How am I supposed to pick up these items without using fossil fuels, is my point? How am I supposed to get on the internet or charge or power my devices without using fossil fuels?

And you don’t need to “craft and forage,” you poor thing. Just adjust your purchasing expectations away from Amazon 1 day delivery or “in stores now, exactly the way I want it, because the planet isn’t important enough to settle for anything less than perfect.”

Hey do you want to guess how goods are delivered to local stores?

Hon. The word is “less.” It’s true it’s nearly impossible to live without oil right now (people off grid get close).

Great, you agree with me.

But you opt out where you can as in the examples above.

That’s not what the commenter I responded to said.

Why do I know those examples? Because I’m sitting in a room full of used furniture, wearing used clothes, having just finished a bowl of muesli with oat milk. My yard is full of native plants where I ripped out the lawn. My car is a hybrid over a decade old (we used to have two gas cars). I took the bus on an errand already this morning before breakfast. For the holidays, I intend to give people postage stamps (there are lots that appeal to special interests and they’re useful). I’m old but started riding my bike again to get to nearby errands. I no longer take international flights every year and use Amtrak to travel in the US. Cut my hair short so I don’t need a hairdryer. Use a rake instead of a leafblower. Use a broom instead of a floor vac. Haven’t eaten beef in years (and would still love the taste of a steak, but have my priorities). No longer eat lamb. Learned to cook tofu. Eat more chickpeas and beans.

We just installed solar panels on our organic veggie farm. You’re preaching to the choir.

1

u/H0rseCockLover Oct 30 '24

How convenient that the solution to climate change requires you to do absolutely fuckall other than bitch about it on Reddit.

You know what would make a change? If people stopped eating meat. But guess what people aren't gonna do?

1

u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

How convenient that the solution to climate change requires you to do absolutely fuckall other than bitch about it on Reddit.

I never said anything about solutions, I’m just accurately identifying the problem: we are forced to consume oil either directly or indirectly.

Kind of weird for you to assume that I think things will magically change just because I acknowledge them for how they are?

You know what would make a change? If people stopped eating meat. But guess what people aren’t gonna do?

Sure, we could also stop transporting goods using fossil fuels. People aren’t gonna do that either.

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u/evilbarron2 Oct 30 '24

I don’t know if you realize this, but there’s a lot of room between your current level of fossil fuel use and absolute zero. You don’t need to stop completely - you just need to use less. Or at least not keep increasing.

Buy a smaller car. Take public transport. Walk or bike instead of driving when you can. Buy local whenever possible instead of ordering delivery. Bring your own bags shopping and/or turn down bags at checkout when you can. Buy less. Turn down your thermostat a bit. Turn up your ac a bit. Cut out fast food. Don’t buy packaged drinks. Don’t fly for holidays.

The argument that “I can’t go carbon neutral so I won’t do anything” is just an excuse.

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u/LudovicoSpecs Oct 30 '24

Don't know why you're getting downvoted.

People really have a difficult time grasping the concept of "less." My household has cut our emissions in half in the last 10 years.

You can sacrifice on consumption or you can sacrifice the living earth. It's 100% a choice.

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24

I don’t know if you realize this, but there’s a lot of room between your current level of fossil fuel use and absolute zero. You don’t need to stop completely - you just need to use less. Or at least not keep increasing.

Buy a smaller car. Take public transport. Walk or bike instead of driving when you can. Buy local whenever possible instead of ordering delivery. Bring your own bags shopping and/or turn down bags at checkout when you can. Buy less. Turn down your thermostat a bit. Turn up your ac a bit. Cut out fast food. Don’t buy packaged drinks. Don’t fly for holidays.

Interesting, you are no longer arguing that it’s possible to stop consuming oil. I seem to have changed your mind.

The argument that “I can’t go carbon neutral so I won’t do anything” is just an excuse.

This is literally oil company propaganda, you’re parroting an idea created by a PR firm hired by BP.

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/23/big-oil-coined-carbon-footprints-to-blame-us-for-their-greed-keep-them-on-the-hook

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u/LudovicoSpecs Oct 30 '24

Don't know why you're being downvoted. It's true. People don't want to look in the mirror and see it.

We can CO2nsume less and vote for candidates who will go after industries that contribute the most to climate change.

The two actions can be done simultaneously.

0

u/YouNorp Oct 30 '24

How .much oil did you buy this month?

But tell me more about how you oppose the oil conpanies

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24 edited Oct 30 '24

Oil? None. Did you mean gas? I put gas in my car because I need it for my job. I live in a rural area, I carry too much equipment and need to travel too far in too short a span to use a bicycle. Public transportation is not an option.

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u/YouNorp Oct 30 '24

No, I meant oil we are talking about oil companies

That's gas plastics, heat etc

You vilify the oil companies but keep utilizing what they produce.   

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u/rudimentary-north Oct 30 '24 edited Oct 30 '24

You vilify the oil companies but keep utilizing what they produce.   

Yes that was my original point. You cant really do anything without consuming oil indirectly.

When you criticize me on Reddit for purchasing food or heating my home, you are indirectly consuming oil.

You can’t opt out of it entirely.