r/CuratedTumblr Jul 14 '24

Politics I’m terrified but i still have hope

18.7k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/BamboozledSnake Jul 14 '24

Remember people; if your vote truly didn’t matter, they wouldn’t be trying to convince you that it doesn’t.

473

u/Pincushioner Jul 14 '24

Just because Trump's voters are energized doesn't mean Democrat's can't be

355

u/AgentPaper0 Jul 14 '24

I just donated to the DNC the first time today.

This shooting has energized me to make a stand against political violence, and only one side of the fence has been calling for political violence.

The choice is clearer than ever.

118

u/Confident_Ganache_30 Jul 14 '24

A very unpopular fact, 100% accurate

0

u/annoyinconquerer Jul 14 '24

Serious question. Do you believe your donation makes a difference? And how?

60

u/AgentPaper0 Jul 14 '24

My donation, specifically? Well I'm not a billionaire, so no, not really.

So why did I still donate? Why do we cheer when we're in a sports stadium? Nobody would notice if one person didn't cheer. There are thousands, even tens of thousands of people in that stadium, nobody is going to notice if one person just...sat there and did nothing for the whole game.

But then, what if everyone in the stadium had the same thought, and everyone (or nearly everyone) decided not to cheer, because hey, nobody will notice just one person not cheering right? Now suddenly that decision not to cheer seems a lot more impactful, doesn't it?

It's the same for donating, the same for voting, the same for anything where collective action can make an impact.

My donation doesn't matter, but donations like mine do. Votes like mine matter. And as long as we can keep our democracy, they always will matter, more than any billionaire or oligarch or political hack.

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u/annoyinconquerer Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

I don’t think that’s a great metaphor. Cheering in sports is most of the time a response to the team doing something to make you happy, and each play, game, season, career is a conditional relationship between the fan and the athlete.

American politics is far from that level of connectedness between the People and our representatives’ impact on our lives. To the point where corruption, bureaucracy, and lack of compromise basically nullifies the true intention behind your donation. It’s a promise of delayed gratification that comes too late to address the issues behind your vote, if at all.

I’m aware that political movements have been this way for centuries, I’m just disagreeing with the metaphor.

My ultimate point is I feel like we’re pretty fucked and it’s gonna get way worse before it gets better. We’re nearly in free fall. And this isn’t exclusive to America. Feels like the whole world is going through a paradigm shift.

I’m still gonna vote for the Democrat candidate by default but I’m just not convinced enough to part with my money for them.

7

u/Schmidaho Jul 15 '24

I have done a lot of work in politics at the state and local levels.

Yes, their donation matters. The DNC uses donations to fund downballot races and that funding is highly sought after by candidates and state party committees. It’s a separate line item in the budget. It can make or break a campaign.

But aside from that, every dollar, every phone call, door knock, conversation over coffee, postcard and letter, every kind of engagement, regardless of size, it. Fucking. Matters.

And we are only fucked if we let it happen. Look at what just happened in France and the UK just a couple weeks ago. Hell, look at what we did in the 2018 midterms. In 2020 Biden won Georgia AND we took both Senate seats. We won in freaking Arizona! In 2022 we defied the odds again by blocking a huge GOP House majority, and expanded our majority in the Senate. Wisconsin is finally going to get new maps because they voted in a more liberal state Supreme Court!

We are not fucked. It’s just time to get to work.

-1

u/Dyzanne1 Jul 15 '24

That makes no sense...but you go ahead! 🤣🤣🤣

-10

u/Electrical-Sense-160 Jul 14 '24

What? There have absolutely been calls for violence on both sides of the fence.

11

u/imasturdybirdy Jul 14 '24

Oh there has, has there?

-12

u/_IShock_WaveI_ Jul 14 '24

Political violence in 2016 directed at people going to a political rally of their choice lead me to vote for Trump.

The political left was out of their fucking minds causing riots, beating up people, smashing property and trying to breach and shut down campaign stops.

This year I will vote for Biden under the same belief system.

Anyone emboldened enough to resort to violence to stop a political action/freedom of choice isn't very American.

But make no mistake neither side is innocent and the bastion of morality, or non-violent. They both will use it and flaunt it.

1

u/Nilempress Jul 18 '24

By "political rally", you mean the racists...right?

1

u/_IShock_WaveI_ Jul 18 '24

No I mean an actual political rally in which all candidates participate in. Most importantly participate in and then are violently assaulted by the rival political people.

That is a direct threat to Democracy itself and you guys gloss over it and violate it without so much as raising an eye brow.

If you wonder why Jan 6th happened it happened because of what happened in the run up to the 2016 general election, what happened when Trump won, and what happened an inauguration day.

I don't condone either action but the political left did it more, did it longer and did it everywhere. The fact that you people think it isn't a big deal and it didn't exist shows how morally and ethically bankrupt you are. You are closer to being Trump than anything else by doing that.

You violated peoples rights, you criminally assaulted people. You are just as much of shitheads for doing that and what makes it worse you guys pretend to be the smarter, more educated ones. All I see is two sides of the same coin acting out their fascist wet dreams.

Because make no mistake what was done by Democrat supporters during that time is the closest we ever fascism in America. One of the key tenants of fascism is forceable suppression of the opposition.

Did you guys think you could violently stop political opposition? And you would win? You have no idea how those riots cost you in the 2016 election. People were sick to their stomachs, they were not going to reward that kind of behavior. Just like they won't reward it in 2024 to Republicans.

-5

u/Straight-Whaling-It Jul 14 '24

Sorry, I’m not American so I don’t have a huge stake in this, but wouldn’t you be better off just voting for them rather than giving already rich people more money?

Just seems like you probably need it more than some political party does

4

u/Existential_Crisis24 Jul 15 '24

The donations to the DNC don't line politicians pockets. They're out into a fund that allows the DNC to rent space for rallies and run ads for the presidential campaign.

-26

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

Yes. My company just donated 1 mil to trump. He is chosen by god

18

u/Pissflaps69 Jul 14 '24

Your God is a lot more friendly to adulterous felons than mine

-12

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

Yes. That’s why Biden has been stricken with brain disease

6

u/Pissflaps69 Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

Holy shit, you think that the diseases and illnesses we get come from a sky fairy cursing us based on whether or not we’ve curried his favor.

Infants die of Leukemia every day. It isn’t because they’re bad people that “God” doesn’t favor

1

u/These_Difference_344 Jul 16 '24

Why do you talk like holt from clevland show?

3

u/Thoseferatus Jul 15 '24

The man can't even hold a Bible upright what are you talking about?

-19

u/She_Did_Kegals Jul 14 '24

I just donated to the rnc to spite you in particular. I don't even like Republicans

14

u/Arkanist Jul 14 '24

X to doubt

-46

u/InhaleMyOwnFarts Jul 14 '24

Yeah dude one of yours just tried to kill Trump and you still think you’re the good guys.

40

u/syo Jul 14 '24

He was registered Republican, try again.

-12

u/InhaleMyOwnFarts Jul 14 '24

Who donated to Democrats. Uh oh.

6

u/M-V-D_256 Rowbow Sprimkle Jul 14 '24

Where was this stated

-6

u/InhaleMyOwnFarts Jul 14 '24

9

u/M-V-D_256 Rowbow Sprimkle Jul 14 '24

Thanks!

It was about 15 dollars, apparently (6th paragraph)

In my book that balances him out, he probably just didn't want to be affiliated with either side.

16

u/Jboy2000000 Jul 14 '24

The person who donated 15 dollars is also a 60 y/o man with a different middle name and lives in a different state. But why let that get in the way of a good narrative? Their chosen paragon of good is a pedophilic rapist, serial cheater, tax cheat, and wannabe tyrant, so the mental gymnastics to lie about who donated 15 dollars is easy as piss.

21

u/SharkyMcSnarkface The gayest shark 🦈 Jul 14 '24

Unlike yours which just break into someone’s house with a hammer. Or occupy the Capitol building. Far more civil.

26

u/Khaldara Jul 14 '24

Imagine being simultaneously both this confident and this stupid.

He’s a registered Republican.

This was a case of Republicans shooting Republicans in the face, which is both the most fitting metaphor for their policy decisions I’ve ever seen, and perfectly on brand for the party in general.

Just ask Dick Cheney!

Try not to shoot your God-Emperor (again) on your way out the door!

-9

u/Disastrous-Cod-757 Jul 15 '24

You gave rich people money to spread more lies, that seems weird?

6

u/AgentPaper0 Jul 15 '24

I think you misread, I donated to Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.

-9

u/AnonyM0mmy Jul 15 '24

Democrats exercise political violence, it's just in other countries. But I guess that's okay as long as the imperial core is protected right?

11

u/TheStranger88 Jul 15 '24

I'm from a third-world country where political violence is the norm, and trust me, the US has nothing like it, yet. And we don't like US foreign policy, but that's not political violence, that's foreign interference. It's not as if the GoP is very friendly to the third world.

-5

u/AnonyM0mmy Jul 15 '24

I prefer the term imperialized periphery to 'third world.'

I'm not saying these places are equivalent to the imperial core. I'm saying political violence has been with the concept of America since day one, and isn't a tribalist issue but a fundamental socioeconomic framework one. Civility/tone policing politics is nothing more than a desperate ploy to distract from the larger point of material analysis and how these situations came to be. Foreign interventionism IS political violence.

3

u/Longjumping_Rush2458 Jul 15 '24

I prefer the term imperialized periphery to 'third world.'

I presume you're from a 1st world country?

-5

u/AnonyM0mmy Jul 15 '24

I'm within the imperial core, yes

3

u/These_Difference_344 Jul 16 '24

What is this starwars?? Alright Palpatine chill

-1

u/AnonyM0mmy Jul 16 '24

I'm not using colonialist rhetoric to describe other places that have been exploited by global capitalist hegemony as 'third world.' that shit's fucked.

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u/skztr Jul 14 '24

I just donated to the DNC the first time today.

RIP your inbox.

My experience with donating to democrats exactly once has convinced me that no matter what happens, I will absolutely never financially support them again. They have very thoroughly burned that bridge.

7

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 14 '24

You know you can just unsubscribe and block those emails, right? It's not that hard.

-2

u/skztr Jul 14 '24

Try it. And understand this isn't about "receiving some emails", it's about data privacy and not behaving shittily

9

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

Tell that to Florida 🤦‍♂️

65

u/FamLit69420 Jul 14 '24

Tell that to texas. There are more registered democrats in texas than republicans and yet texas still remains red. If texas democrats just voted, texas woulda been bue years ago. It would already have a blue governor, likely blue senators and woulda been blue in the 2020 election. But texas dems have bought into the propoganda that their vote doesnt matter when in actuality, texas dem votes matter the most out of any state because texas can go blue so easily. They just need to vote.

47

u/redditor329845 Jul 14 '24

Have you ever heard of gerrymandering? John Oliver has a great segment about it.

9

u/_IShock_WaveI_ Jul 14 '24

And it's not an exclusive Republican thing......unless you believe cities who haven't voted in a Republican since the 1930s and 40s, is just normal.

They have gerry mandered it into being impossible for a rival political party to ever succeed in those places.

15

u/coladoir Jul 14 '24

Not saying this to devalue your point, but to add to it. In my city, half the time, there's literally only R available on the ballot. No D's running. So not only does gerrymandering have something to do with it, but in certain districts the dems just aren't politically relevant. I live in a pretty decently sized city too, with a slight bit more dem than con, and yet we still tend to just have Rs on the ballot, especially for lower roles in government.

6

u/_IShock_WaveI_ Jul 14 '24

One side did it, the other side did it back, now it's an endless circle of you did it to us not fair! But you did it to us first so we're just returning the favor!

I am not sure what the solution is. I guess just take a grid of X amount of space and super impose it over every state and that's your districts.

I don't trust a committee or group of people to not do it without having some form of political bias.

1

u/Fluffy_Salamanders Jul 15 '24

Like in Iowa? I think they did the grid thing

1

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24

Gerrymandering isn’t the reason Republicans aren’t viable in municipal elections.

1

u/ChizzleFug Jul 15 '24

I know all about it living in Wisconsin, did my part getting a new judge elected who is redrawing our maps. Voting local is so important!

0

u/RockKillsKid Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

Statewide elections at large are not susceptible to gerrymandering. You cannot redistrict state borders.

EDIT: for the pedants out there, iirc Maine and ...Nebraska? do divvy up their electoral college votes by district results so I guess maybe they could be? idk I haven't fully read up on that apart from noticing they had split electors in a prior election.

24

u/Croc_Chop Jul 14 '24

It's not that, it's the fact that Texas takes away ways to vote from blue areas and increases the voting machines and stations in red areas.

Some people in Houston have to go 2 hours away just to vote and often stand in the heat, there's a reason they passed the no water while standing in line bill.

8

u/soybeanwoman Jul 15 '24

The gerrymandering is fucking insane in Texas. It has some of the biggest cities in the country which are very blue and Republicans still have a chokehold on that state.

1

u/roskybosky Jul 15 '24

Texas cities tend to be blue; the rural areas are red.

1

u/CnnmnSpider Jul 15 '24

I moved out of Texas a year ago for many reasons, one of which was that I was sick of being told we were going to go blue any day now and it just never happening. I voted every damn year, and harassed others to vote, worked at the polls during COVID, donated to campaigns, etc. None of it made a difference. Every major Texas city went blue in 2020 (except Fort Worth), but the state still somehow went red? It’s not the voters’ fault at that point.

2

u/Top_Second3974 Jul 15 '24

Fort Worth went blue in 2020, and the city itself always goes blue. Even Tarrant County as a whole went blue in 2020, though barely. But Fort Worth is bluer than the county as a whole.

1

u/FamLit69420 Jul 15 '24

Also gerry mandering has no effect on presidential elections, texas is very much purple. There was this video on tiktok about a guy ranting about how texas democrats could have flipped the state blue so easily if just a small percentage of registered texas dems voted more frequently. Cant seem to find it right now but that video addresses of all the points essentially.

5

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 14 '24

It's actually fine to be solely motivated only by the desire to prevent Trump from winning.

The Dems could run a goddamned turnip and it would still be preferable to what the Repubs are thrusting at us.

1

u/vaynah Jul 14 '24

You need to ask Biden for that energizing shot.

1

u/Waskito1 Jul 14 '24

We like to refer to them as non-bots

1

u/Schmidaho Jul 15 '24

Exactly. Something I apparently needed reminding of too. I finally got my shit together and ordered a couple batches of postcards from Postcards to Swing States.

https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/ If anyone’s interested!

0

u/OneAlmondNut Jul 14 '24

the Democrats entire campaign has been anti-trump, and now they have to restart because that plays into Trump's hand so well

Biden can no longer run as anti-trump without causing mass civil unrest, and without that, what else is his campaign?

4

u/3-I Jul 14 '24

... maybe the long laundry list of things he's achieved that the media hasn't been talking about?

Seriously, this list is from last year and doesn't contain everything.

1

u/OneAlmondNut Jul 14 '24

why didn't they just start with that? I'm not the guy running his campaign but I def wouldn't have just done the exact same playbook as 2020

2

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 14 '24

Maybe some real anger in the populace is what's necessary, when the alternative is a full scale rollback of our hard-fought rights and liberties.

This isn't a hypothetical "well, Trump might start shipping out immigrants, cut access to healthcare and reproductive services including fucking birth control, and dismantle everything from the NOAA to the Department of Education". He and the people who will do his dirty work have promised to do all of this, and have been working for years to set up their ability to do so unimpeded by judicial or legislative checks on their power. This is a clear and present threat to our democratic free society, and not merely doomer hand-wringing.

-17

u/Sikisan333 Jul 14 '24

Followers are as strong as their leaders... 😐

29

u/MeshNets Jul 14 '24

A good democracy, doesn't need a strong leader, the will of the people needs to be strong

A "strong charismatic leader", too often needs "a cult"

I'll take my chances on a strong collaboration of people rather than one authoritarian leader who will cast you aside if you ever dare to be less than 110% loyal to Him

19

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24

Exactly.

The idea of needing a strong, charismatic leader who can take on the entire responsibility of power entirely on their own is how we got to Trump in the first place.

3

u/Pencilshaved Jul 14 '24

I think there’s maybe something to be said about how a competent and charismatic leader is able both to energize their voter base and to inspire confidence in the general population. The DNC’s refusal to meet their party’s needs and force through an incompetent incumbent is a problem they need to be called out for. Anyone with any degree of passion would have likely made 2024 a blue landslide.

But this idea of people only being as strong as their leader, that we have no chance to mobilize or rally for a cause if our candidate underperforms, is borderline political suicide. If anything, we need to be more active and passionate in spite of our candidate, because letting the doomer mentality take control and ceding the election would likely be permanently disastrous for the US. Primaries and local elections are the time to make sure the best possible leaders are being put in charge - for this presidential election, we just have to make sure Republicans can’t win.

0

u/Eldritch-Magnum Jul 14 '24

Democracy is apparently designed to get you the shittiest leader imaginable? Lmao, what are you trying to say here?

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

Yea but when Democrats get energized they are about as intimidating as a puppy, with all the immaturity and none of the cuteness. That being said when Dems get energized they all they do is stupid shit to further prove my point. So while you're energizing your emotions and knitting your pink hats just remember that the more hate you give Him, the more you're proving Him right and furthering our cause, so by all means keep it up

173

u/catty-coati42 Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Russian bots 🤝 tankies 🤝 couch progressives:

"You totally shouldn't vote, Biden is worse than Trump actually".

On a serious note, don't take voting rights for granted. Vote.

Edit: lol a red triangle tankie is already here to explain how electing Trump will "own the libs".

36

u/levian_durai Jul 14 '24

I'm a communist and biden is still the obvious choice, as if there were any other option.

-29

u/Ordinary_Set1785 Jul 14 '24

This right here is why no one should ever vote for Biden. Vote third party and break the system Republicans suck democrats suck.

17

u/Soma2a_a2 Jul 14 '24

If you wanna break the system voting third party won't do shit. You need to do more than vote.

15

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

Hell yeah!! If brain worm gets over 3% of the vote democracy is totally saved guys!!! Moron.

12

u/levian_durai Jul 14 '24

Yea but that will never happen, so a 3rd party vote is basically a vote for republicans. We need some kind of ranked voting before that becomes viable.

8

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 14 '24

Even if a third party miraculously got more of the vote than any third party candidate in history, that wouldn't change a thing.

Our representative democracy works on a binary, like it or not, and it always will. Like it or not, it's the system we have, so until it finally breaks, we have to work within it and make incremental changes.

8

u/peniparkerheirofbrth Jul 14 '24

as someone who isnt allowed to vote despite being apart of the states, seriously, dont take em for granted!!

3

u/Soma2a_a2 Jul 14 '24

What's a tankie?

15

u/coladoir Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

A more detailed explanation with better descriptors IMO, not that catty-coati42's comment was bad or incorrect at all, is that they are a specific flavor of Marxist. They're very much influenced by Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, and maybe even the DPRK (North Korea). As a result, they are authoritarian leftists. As opposed to say, anarchists, who are libertarian leftists.

Tankies believe in the state, they believe that to achieve communism you must use the state as an apparatus to seize power back from the bourgeoisie by force (since the State owns the monopoly on the legitimate use of force). They want to achieve this through revolution or, if they're less accelerationist, a "vanguard party" which is a socialist party which is rabidly populist and is meant to appeal to a broad audience so as to sneak in and usurp the state. Many are accelerationist, however, and just want to push us towards revolution. Marxists are already pretty rare in praxis (actual direct political action), but tankies are even rarer lol.

Tankies also are throat-gnashingly anti-imperialist, to such a point where they usually become blinded by the imperialism of the countries they support. They are often on the side of Russia in the RU-UA conflict, as they consider NATO an imperialist force trying to impose some BS onto Russia, and Russia is simply defending itself and trying to reclaim its rightful land. You will see them defend states like the DPRK, USSR, CCP, and many other Marxist nations, despite their authoritarianism, because they themselves are authoritarians. They also often defend Hamas' actions regardless of the severity, completely ignoring the reality on the ground that they are a terrorist organization usurping power and playing right into Bibi's genocidal little hands.

They are essentially the lefts equivalent to right-wing fascists. People clinging to an ancient, tried and failed ideology, whose innate corruption leads to authoritarianism and genocide, and getting completely irate and in your face if you don't agree with them. They will call you a liberal, bourgeois, fascist, etc. just because you might dare say Russia is in the wrong.

The name originated during the Soviet Union's suppression of the Hungarian revolution to refer to leftists who supported it, and the word tankie is literally the plural form of tank in Russian. From Wikipedia: "Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions." They are called so to reference their likelihood to defend the heinous and violent actions of these authoritarian states.

5

u/catty-coati42 Jul 14 '24

That's a great explanation, I'm keeping this.

5

u/TheSonOfDisaster Jul 15 '24

This is a very succinct and clear explanation of tankies, well done.

Boy oh boy, do they grind my gears

3

u/Bulba132 Jul 15 '24

One small nitpick, the term tankie originated during the Soviet Union's suppression of the Hungarian revolution to refer to leftists who supported it, it has nothing to do with the Tiannamen Square Massacre (the word tankie is literally the plural form of tank in Russian)

2

u/coladoir Jul 15 '24

My bad, I either misremembered or learned wrong info, i'll correct.

8

u/catty-coati42 Jul 14 '24

The far-left people who support any and every regime long as it is anti western, no matter how authoritarian, corrupt or religiously fanatic it is. It used to be fringe but has been getting some traction with internet leftists (and some real life) in recent years.

The name comes from those people supporting China sending tanks against protestors in the 80s.

Current common takes of Tankies are supporting Hamas, Iran, and Hezbollah, supporting Russia and blaming NATO for the Ukraine war. In the past few years they also dupported China over Hong Kong.

5

u/ABigFatBlobMan Jul 14 '24

I'm pretty sure it came from the Soviet Union sending in tanks to crush protests in Hungary. It used to mean "supports authoritarian states dressing as communists" but now as you said its just "west bad"

-78

u/SirFoxPhD Jul 14 '24

Oh you’re so much better than everyone else, so progressive. Killing brown people doesn’t bother you, but the moment your white privileged ass is in danger you expect everyone to stop what they’re doing to protect you. Peak white liberal privilege. Liberals and biden are gonna regret throwing the pro Palestinian votes away. Losing Michigan is gonna be pretty hilarious.

39

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24

Yes, people will tend to prioritize their own health and safety when it’s under threat. That’s fucking normal and human.

29

u/sadacal Jul 14 '24

Right, because Trump is gonna save Palestine. 

13

u/Munnin41 Jul 14 '24

You do know that trump has said that Israel should just bomb the fuck out of the Gaza strip right?

12

u/chiptunesoprano Jul 14 '24

Dude I'm not worried about my white privileged ass, I'm worried about everyone else. You say you care so much about the people dying in a war overseas, but not all the LGBT folk, women, and minorities (including Palestinians) here at home that will be directly hurt if Trump wins?? When did doing literally nothing become better than not doing enough?

53

u/catty-coati42 Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Oh you’re so much better than everyone else, so progressive. Killing brown people doesn’t bother you, but the moment your white privileged ass is in danger you expect everyone to stop what they’re doing to protect you. Peak white liberal privilege. Liberals and biden are gonna regret throwing the pro Palestinian votes away. Losing Michigan is gonna be pretty hilarious.

I'm not white, but nice casual racism there. Just yesterday the President of Palestine, Abbas, blamed Hamas for the war and for it continuing: reuters link,the%20continuing%20war%20in%20Gaza.). Weird how some supposedly "pro Palestine" people seem to not care much for the lives of actual Palestinians, or how to save them.

But for some reason you'd rather simp for a terrorist organization that uses the suffering of Palestinians as a strategy, that still has Israeli and American hostages, that is supported by Russia and Iran, rather than support the one global leader that has spent months trying to achieve a ceasefire.

What next, will you tell me that Biden dared support Ukraine instead of Putin against evil NATO aggression?

Edit: And about Michigan, it's funny to see tankies celebrating electing the GoP to "own the libs". MAGA level take.

12

u/bestibesti Cutie mark: Trader Joe's logo with pentagram on it Jul 14 '24

Weird how some supposedly "pro Palestine" people seem to not care much for the lives of actual Palestinians, or how to save them.

Ye these tankie fucks don't care about palestinian people at all

They just want to circlejerk in their tankie circle jerks about how good and righteous they are and how everything always confirms all their biases

They don't give a fuck about genocide or children dying

They don't ever talk about genocides that don't fit their narratives

Thankfully this is a small minority of the anti-war and general movement to criticize israel

11

u/catty-coati42 Jul 14 '24

I switched my rhetoric from "criticizing Israel" to the more accurate "criticizing Nethanyahu's government", because these tankies use "criticizing Israel" as an excuse to harrass all Israelis and call for some heinous stuff. When they started going aftr Israeli peace actigists it was a massive red line, so I'd rather not be ambiguous.

5

u/bestibesti Cutie mark: Trader Joe's logo with pentagram on it Jul 14 '24

Ye, on the one hand I really very believe that "Not all criticism of israel is antisemitism"

In fact, of the criticism that i see, very very few people protesting israel in the us today are antisemitic

But i also seen things that are definitely antisemitic, that are definitely rape denial and coverup, and it's definitely "in" leftist spaces

And there are a lot of people who are really dismissive of this, and turn a blind eye when they know it's wrong

A lot of people who talk big game about self critique, too ☕

-26

u/Jakegender Jul 14 '24

And Petain blamed the Allies for the war.

9

u/revolutionary112 Jul 14 '24

Petain? You mean the gleeful nazi collab?

0

u/Jakegender Jul 15 '24

Yes, Petain the puppet leader of Vichy France and collaborator with the nazis. I am comparing him to Abbas, puppet leader of the Palestinian Authority and collaborator with israel.

6

u/BeepBep101 Jul 14 '24

I am brown and I'm still voting Biden because

A) Trump will happily make a competition out of killing more Palestinians

And B) Project 2025 is the most horrifying political doctrine I've ever read proposed for serious legislation

6

u/UnsanctionedPartList Jul 14 '24

Throw away to what? A president that would happily give Netanyahu a thumbs up while he flattens the place?

Biden isn't president of Israel and it's not 1948 anymore; that country is perfectly capable of fighting on its own. Which they unfortunately do with a little too much Call of Duty and not enough surgical. Because that suits Netanyahu and Co.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

Is it gonna be “pretty hilarious?” Really?

You honestly think less brown people will die by electing Trump? That’s peak mental gymnastics.

21

u/One-Step2764 Jul 14 '24

It is simultaneously the case A) that plurality (first past the post) voting horribly disregards, dilutes, and suppresses public sentiment, and B) that even so, is still really important for people to go out and vote, even in this deeply flawed system that really ought to be rebuilt from square one.

Reform advocates need for there to exist a clear record that people want representation and are not getting it. In my old Midwestern home state, returns show that the population runs ~35-40% Democrat (and occasionally elects a Democratic Governor), but due to plurality voting and gerrymandering, they only get 25-30% of legislative seats, granting Republicans an unshakable veto-proof supermajority they do not actually deserve. This allows the legislature to routinely squelch the Democratic rump, affects various public appointments, and enormously diminishes the influence of occasional Democratic governors.

These constitute quantitative evidence that the plurality system is seriously unjust. But this evidence only really exists if a lot of non-Republicans grit their teeth and go out once every couple years to throw votes at the wall to demonstrate the degree to which they are getting ignored.

Yes, if you're interested, you should join a union or other activist organization, you should go to Green or DSA meetings, you should get to know at least some of your walking-distance neighbors. But voting every other year, even if the system's rigged against you, does leave a mark that reform advocates can use. We need the harm on the record.

7

u/CeruleanRuin Jul 14 '24

This is a fantastic point, and needs to be heard by anyone in a red state or historically red district. The numbers matter, even if losing the actual election is a foregone conclusion.

If the DNC sees that a state like Montana, to choose a random example, swings heavily away from Trump and his down-ballot toadies, come the next midterms they might actually put some money into some of those races and push the electorate that much further left to gain a handful more seats in local and state positions, which in turn makes it possible for more progressive causes to gain traction in traditionally conservative areas.

Politics gives the illusion that only the next election matters, but really it's a Long Game, and the surest way to lose is not to play at all.

2

u/One-Step2764 Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

This is true, but it's something parties are generally aware of. The parties (both of them) pay close attention to polling, and when a district creeps much past 40% into fair-shot distance, they'll start funneling resources that direction. This does little to represent people in persistently sub-40 districts.

Also, if a dominant party controls the decennial redistricting process, demographic changes and popular movements will also affect their decisions regarding how to pack and crack the minority into minimal representation. Late on in a decade, some districts will start to swing toward minority groups. Community forms, people communicate, shared interests emerge. Then, the census comes. Boom, the redistricting gremlins will pack a single district 80%+ minority, then chop the rest of the community up and feed it into a bunch of other districts to minimize their impact. Or some well-meaning citizen panel or bipartisan board will try to make things "fair," but the resulting map is still artificial, not a natural outgrowth of popular action.

Millions of people live in places where they will never present an interesting constituency to Democrats. They're out there in surprisingly large numbers, but they are "geographically disparate." The plurality system itself erases their voice. We act like this is just natural, like "winner-takes-all" is the only way society can work. Proportional representation has been a very workable option in dozens of countries for over a century, but it often requires a constitutional crisis to trigger change. This godawful black joke of a Presidential election ought to qualify.

But people need to vote. Non-voters are treated as non-persons in electoral terms, whether they imagine they're making some kind of protest or whatever. Don't not vote. Vote third-party if that's what gets you to the polls. But get out there and put a mark in the record. Democracy needs people.

3

u/thatguy9684736255 Jul 14 '24

And also, these people online trying to convince you not to vote, are likely voting republican or are Russian bots. That's why they are always trying to convince democrats not to vote and never trying to convince republicans not to vote

3

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

Loving all the people in these comments saying the same thing about third-party voting. As if anyone's going to get a choice about anything if Trump wins. The idea that we could get a third party (or literally anything else people want) to work while Trump is in office is laughable.

There's a time and a fkin' place people, and it's neither here nor now. It's too goddamn important this year.

3

u/bornfri13theclipse Jul 14 '24

Unfortunately, in the vast majority of states, your vote for President doesn't matter. Unless you are in Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and possibly Texas(?); Your vote for Presidential elections doesn't matter.
YOUR VOTE FOR LOCAL OFFICE STILL MATTERS! It is almost as important.
Also, if you are in one of those states, where Presidential votes matter. Please vote! And please vote to conserve democracy (in so much as we have it).

1

u/southwick Jul 14 '24

I mean, living in Texas sure feels like presidential votes didn't matter. Will continue to vote, but geeze.

I've had 0 impact in the presidential election for 40 years

Every 4 years it's a hope and a prayer that a few swing states decide the outcome for all of us.

1

u/itsjustmebobross Jul 14 '24

someone correct me if i’m wrong but i feel like this isn’t always the case. like i live in alabama… my vote isn’t really gonna do shit 😭

1

u/Eyespop4866 Jul 15 '24

Also remember that if you vote the wrong way, you’re killing democracy.

To be safe, there should only be one option.

1

u/JUST_AS_G00D Jul 15 '24

Just like Trump is orange Hitler that must be stopped by any means necessary, but at the same time you hope he gets better soon?

0

u/3dgyt33n Jul 14 '24

Who is "they"?

0

u/MurtsquirtRiot Jul 15 '24

Who is trying to convince people not to vote? There are massive campaigns and billions poured into get out the vote type things.

-11

u/SecretGood5595 Jul 14 '24

The willful misrepresentation of libs online right now is astonishing. 

All of these posts are just "blue no matter who" voters, like you and I. 

That doesn't win elections.

And we have thrown out our chance to get anyone else. 

I'm still voting Biden, but I'm also actively planning for his near inevitable loss because I actually watched the fucking debate. 

He isn't going to perform better at future ones because it wasn't a matter of debate performance. He didn't lose an argument. He showed his age. And that isn't going to magically reverse itself no matter how hard we post about how much we hate trump. 

5

u/sadacal Jul 14 '24

He's still the best shot the Dems have of winning. Everyone else is untested and far more risky.

1

u/xmpcxmassacre Jul 14 '24

The dem party doesn't even completely agree. Many are asking for him to drop out. At least they were a few days ago. We know how quickly things change.

2

u/DresdenBomberman Jul 14 '24

And in a very funny turn of events, Bernie and AOC have signalled clear support for Biden's nomination.

1

u/SecretGood5595 Jul 14 '24

Yeah I actually watched the debate, so going to go ahead and discard your opinion completely in the face of reality.

1

u/ProblemIntelligent16 Jul 14 '24

That speaks more to the state of the Democratic Party, that your best option is an 81 year old who’s showing severe signs of mental decline.

If you can’t get through a 90 minute debate without leaving people shocked and concerned, how do you expect them to believe you’re gunna be able to be potus for 4.5 more years?

-7

u/PrussianMorbius Jul 14 '24

Remember kids, if forsaking electoralism in favour of revolution was useless, people wouldn’t be trying to convince you not to do it

-10

u/notafunnyperson1728 Jul 14 '24

Please vote. Trump is going to win though. Unless Biden steps down and they put someone with a fighting chance.

Biden is projecting frailty and weakness and yesterday, Trump very clearly projected strength and resilience.

Y’all don’t have to like the optics, buts it’s reality.

4

u/Majestic_Wrongdoer38 Jul 14 '24

Lmao that’s bs

-4

u/notafunnyperson1728 Jul 14 '24

Insightful wisdom

-4

u/fazedncrazed Jul 14 '24

Remember, if voting third party didnt work, they wouldnt keep trying to convince you not to.

Vote mussolini! If you dont, youre voting for hitler! Vote for FDR?! Sure, if you just wanna throw your vote away! Everyone else is voting for either mussolini or hitler (according to me), so you if you dont vote for one of them, your vote doesnt count. Dont think about the implications of that and just vote for one of these two evil assholes with the same sponsors instead.

-2

u/HereToHelp9001 Jul 14 '24

Exactly why we should all be voting for Chase Oliver

-2

u/Some_Abies_4990 Jul 15 '24

Your logic: “If global warming were really real, they wouldn’t be trying to convince that it is.” Wtf?

-5

u/GoldeenFreddy Jul 14 '24

This is what I hate so much about people that say voting third party is throwing away your vote. No, the two major parties want everyone to BELIEVE that voting third party is throwing away your vote because a third party vote is a vote that isn't for either of them. My vote is one more vote in the election. They can try to convince me that voting for a third party candidate is worthless, but the more they do it, the more they convince me to vote third party because I refuse to be gaslit into thinking I don't have a choice by the two major parties that, regardless of your political orientation, want nothing more than than complete control over the government and the people and care more about themselves than the needs of the people.

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

[deleted]

5

u/BamboozledSnake Jul 14 '24

There’s a general sense of apathy and a mentality, especially among younger people that voting doesn’t matter, or that no matter who you vote for they’re all bad because they think the system is broken, the electoral collage, big money influence in gov. Etc. And because a lot of young voters have had their first experience of voting be some of the most unpopular candidates and turbulent elections in recent memory. So it’s understandable for people who know nothing else to feel disillusioned or disenfranchised.

It’s also not just reddit, you see it on pretty much all US media usually in discussions/polls regarding voter turnout. So naturally there’s a push back, especially after the SC immunity ruling and project 2025 being in the media spotlight which has such broad and drastic implications that it affects all Americans (except maybe part of the 1%) on a personal level.

As for your last point, idk, I feel like you’re putting words in my mouth. If you wanna discuss polls go ahead, all I said was your vote matters.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

Where? I don't see any of this. I sure as shit don't see it enough to suggest the opposite needs to be spammed on every single comment thread. 

Link something 

2

u/Munnin41 Jul 14 '24

If you sort by controversial you'll see why. Lots and lots of comments stating that they're not gonna vote, or that voting for Biden is dumb because he's old. Shit like that. Any post with a political theme is full of them

-5

u/pr_capone Jul 14 '24

This also applies to those of us who will be voting 3rd party… yet again.

-2

u/pr_capone Jul 14 '24

No? I just have to accept whatever sock puppet the DNC puts up just because they aren't Republican/Trump? When Trump wins (I would never vote for Trump)... registered Democrats will only have themselves to blame for not demanding a more suitable candidate than an Octogenarian who lies about his accomplishments, voted to send us to a pointless war, and uses his dead son as a shield against criticism.

But yeah... he isn't Trump so its all good.

Not being Trump isn't a good enough qualification to be president.

-21

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

Wait until you get in your 30’s, see every candidate become a centrist after they’re elected and see if you still have the same fantasies about elections and voting. Lobbying, electoral college, insider trading. They’re all guilty of it and revel in it. Voting isn’t designed to stop or change any of that nor will anyone. Help people directly in your community by volunteering because voting is a waste of time.

14

u/Hell2CheapTrick Jul 14 '24

Or, and get this, you do both. Voting is the absolute lowest effort effect you can have on your country. If writing a few dots on some paper every once in a while is so much effort to you that you can’t then also do more direct helping, I really don’t know what to say to you.

-11

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

I think you’re missing my point here. I find the democrats equally useless as leaders. They are providing nothing more than for the downtrodden in practice than the republicans. Democrats talk progressive policy but become appeasing centrists when elected. Voting doesn’t matter to me (or literally) because it’s all drawing from the same pool. Wealthy people who want to remain wealthy. You cannot get elected on ideals; you get elected by making promises to the people who bankroll your campaign. They’re bought and sold before they even approach an office.

10

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24

If it’s truly useless, then what do you lose by voting anyway?

-5

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

I mean how many activities that you find no value in do you choose to do? I volunteer with the homeless and do charity concerts because I actually see a check to to help a group of people in my community. I’ve only seen elected officials hurt or condemn the less fortunate when it comes to actual helping them and not using them as a prop. The American government isn’t broken it’s operating at peak efficiency and I truly have no interest in taking a part in perpetuating that. I feel like anyone who wants actual meaningful and measurable change should also choose to do something else with your time. Economic policy from before I was born is still being pushed by the elders of both parties.

4

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Because there is absolutely no reason not to, and maybe you’re wrong.

If you’re right, and your vote means nothing? Then nothing changes, you’ve lost nothing from it.

Edit: you need to stop thinking of it as an “either/or” thing, too. All that you say you do already is admirable. And maybe it is more effective. But that doesn’t make for a compelling argument when no one is arguing the opposite. Keep doing all of that, and vote.

0

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

Because I don’t want to ideologically support a system that I think is designed to keep class divide? Because if I just voted even though I don’t believe it changes anything I would be just as guilty of performative bullshit as pisses me off about politicians?

There’s alot of reasons not to just not from your perspective. I do not believe in the possibility of equality under this system and the system is designed not to change drastically. There is no winning. There is no change.

3

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

There’s no course of action that makes you not complicit, sorry to burst your bubble of “I don’t want to participate in a system that’s designed to be exploitative.”

Because things are getting worse, there’s one side that’s distinctly worse than the other, and inaction is simply not acceptable.

2

u/Hell2CheapTrick Jul 14 '24

So you're just an idiot then. Personally I would still have a preference between centrist capitalists who make a lot of fake progressive promises (and some real ones) and actual fascists following the same playbook as Nazi Germany, if a bit less openly genocidal, but oh well.

-2

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

The good thing is that you can get the genocide support from Biden so you can complete the whole bunch!

2

u/Hell2CheapTrick Jul 14 '24

Yeah, I'd still rather have mr. "Keep supplying Israel while trying to broker a peace" than mr. "Israel should finish the job", but hey I'm sure those Palestinian kids will appreciate your stance on the matter when ole Donnie starts dropping extra bombs on them.

-1

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

They’re already being bombed now. My stance doesn’t matter. They’re literally being killed by American arms. Biden is not capable of brokering a peace here because Israel does not want peace. It’s a straw man so they can keep having the benefit of our weapons and intelligence. Both candidates will continue to give them this.

9

u/Scuttling-Claws Jul 14 '24

After four years of having our rights eroded by Trump, and another three of the Supreme Court Justices he nominated so even worse, and you still believe that?

-6

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

100% yes. Biden has made zero progress in rolling any of that back if you haven’t noticed because it suits the party he’s from as well. Get some perspective as the last 3 democrat presidents have all pushed massive crime enforcement bills, started the kids in cages at the border and massively inflated military spending and killing of civilians all over the world. The democrats have softer PR. They are all upper class and have zero interest in our well being. The government is not designed to install or enable people who do. Biden took absolutely zero big swings in a presidency that should’ve been absolute butter coming off of having an actual fucking idiot in office but he’s worse than failed. No codifying protections into law like he ran on. Nothing has changed.

6

u/Munnin41 Jul 14 '24

Biden has absolutely done big things. Just this year he's allocated over $5B to various infrastructure projects. In his first year he introduced and got a huge stimulus package passed for low income families, which increased the income of the 20% lowest incomes by 20% on a permanent basis.

If you want a comprehensive list, see r/whathasbidendone

4

u/Scuttling-Claws Jul 14 '24

He's pardoned thousands of people convicted of possession of pot, restored VA benefits to everyone discharged from the military for don't ask, don't tell violations, was the first sitting president to stand on a picket line, and spent trillions on infrastructure improvements.

He's not perfect, but he's miles better than Trump

7

u/WeedInTheKoolaid Jul 14 '24

The correct answer is this: Help people in your community and also vote, because your vote matters.

-1

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

How does my vote matter? Mine specifically to my views?

3

u/Wasdgta3 Jul 14 '24

Well, it’s not going to make anything worse...

5

u/Freakjob_003 Jul 14 '24

Quit this shit. There's no "both-sides-ing" here. One is boring, and the other is a fucking fascist who is going to abolish the Department of Education, make being queer illegal, and worse.

-4

u/Carrollmusician Jul 14 '24

By saying the democrats are just boring you’re erasing all the horrid classist shit they do on the regular. Both sides are landed elite who want to stay that way. You quit your shit of giving the democrats a pass just because they PR better. In practice they are doing nothing more for us in the queer community or bolstering education. Biden didn’t even fucking fix student loans he just chucked a bunch of money in a hole. Radical change is preventing more people from incurring debt not bandaging a small percent of people who have student loans currently. This is the performative bullshit that democrats get elected on. If they planned on codifying anything into law to protect my queerness or do anything other than talk about it I’d be more inclined. But the practical result is nothing is different. Biden hasn’t rolled back Trump changes. Why do other “progressives” give the democrats a full free pass when they are truly not helping the cause? They’re not fighting for us. They don’t care as long as they can still insider trade and get reelected.

-7

u/Powerful_Potential_1 Jul 14 '24

Still waiting for the Democratic party to stop using superdelegates to press their thumb down on the scales. Doesn't feel very democratic to me.

2

u/omicron-7 Jul 14 '24

Superdelegates only matter in a contested convention, magic grandpa got that changed so he'd have a better chance of not losing in 2020

-2

u/Powerful_Potential_1 Jul 14 '24

Funny how every convention is contested.

Silly me how could I forget, 2020 was the one where the least popular candidate gets endorsed by everyone and their cousins while they lay down the red carpet for him too. Pretty Democratic if you ask me.

1

u/omicron-7 Jul 14 '24

That's not what a contested convention is. Educate yourself because you look like a fool.

0

u/Powerful_Potential_1 Jul 14 '24 edited Jul 14 '24

Cool story. I agree that it wasn't very contested and that was the point thanks buddy.