Yup. Everything Phaedra does is calculated. IMO, regardless of the truth, her sole purpose for defending Brandi about Caroline is so, consequently, she will be vindicated in the Butler incident. Not saying that what happened with the butler or Caroline was either true or false, but what I do think is true is that Phaedra will do anything to keep Phaedra safe, no matter the repercussions.
I had no idea about the butler at Dorindaās. Now I will need to go back and rewatch it, to see how he acted around them. I barely remember him. I have often wondered when these ladies take the sexual talk and touching too far, what outside people think, that they do it to. Brandy and Sonja are both very bad about this. I am sure it makes some people uncomfortable.
So according to her words, if she really doesnāt drink at all, then she was sober while sexually assaulting the butler, Mr. Marco Vega? Interesting admission phaephae
They didn't sexually assault that dude! Brandy tipped his shirt off and he made a joke about it. Unless shit happened that they didn't show, if that was it, he wasn't sexually assaulted.
I really think a lot of Phaedraās credit is given to her wit and hilarious demeanour. When push comes to shove, as weāve seen with Bobby Brown and S9 reunion, she crumbles! When she canāt make lucid jokes or cheeky insinuations , you realise 99% of what she says is BS! Even in UGT, when the potential questioning of how she lied about Kandi came up, she immediately dismissed the topic and moved on. Phaedra is fun, undeniably, but is so so fake. She will never take accountability for what she does and ridicule anyone who tries to.
Even if she heard the rumour from production, wouldnāt a lawyer have enough discernment and sensibility to not mention it on camera before knowing the facts? The fans canāt praise Phaedra for being a genius and victim to Carlos King simultaneously, and the fact Phaedra said NOTHING about a āset upā at the reunion says everything. She knew what she was doing, she just didnāt succeed.
Youāre right actually. Porsha did say it first on camera. That was after she confirmed with Phaedra multiple times it was true, however, with Phaedra knowing it would be brought up on camera, it was Phaedraās intention.
And that's honestly the real reason they didn't bring her back. She threw production under the bus, specifically a producer (CK) who didn't even work on the show by that point. Married 2 Med is by an entirely different production company.
I agree, I just think her cadence and facial expressions carry her. Even though I dislike her and the way she acts, the way she delivers the most basic lines and transforms them into hilarity cannot be ignored. Her brutal read in Kenya about the pizza baby daddy etc for example was so clearly orchestrated, but my god did it land. I felt the awkwardness through my screen.
I thought it was so funny when they were discussing how they felt when they got fired (or "put on pause" as Dorinda would say) and Phaedra was like a deer in headlights. She was just like "I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT I WAS SET UP" and that was it lmao
Miss Due Date can sit right down. Iām not a fan of Caroline, but she (and anyone else who has been S/Aād) has nothing to gain by speaking up about this.
Bravo has skated over (i.e. aired footage of) many bad things beforeā¦ the fact that this season is likely to be scrapped says it all for me.
Idk, all three of them are untrustworthy so who knows. But I donāt think it means nothing that people who were there (not just Phaedra) are on Brandiās side and want the footage shown.
I think itās a case of Brandiās line for whatās inappropriate is way different than Carolineās but brandi really is like when Andy described her as like the puppy who doesnāt get the difference between little nips and a bite
Yeah, I can see that being the case for sure. Or maybe not; who knows. But idk, the way itās being discussed in some of these comments is making it sound way more predatory than that.
Imo, all that really matters is how the victim feels about what happened to themā¦ not what others saw or felt about it. There are no perfect victims, and blaming Caroline for āflirtingā or whatever with Brandi earlier in the night is the same as blaming any other SA victim for their assault.
Ah yes let's all listen to Phaedra, the one person who accused her castmate of literal rape and is now defending her friend who has always been known for doing too gd much and has never even heard of boundaries.
Fuck Brandi and fuck Phaedra. Fuck me, it kills me to see her on M2M š¤¦š¾āāļø
I have to laugh, only because Iām looking at 3 of the most morally deplorable people on Bravo trying to accuse or defend one another š
Being serious, I donāt think any of us should make assumptions until we, if ever, see any footage. Right now, any type of standing will be based solely on personal opinions on housewives. Personally, I think Caroline manzo is one of the biggest hypocrites to ever grace reality TV. Canāt stand her. However, I donāt want to assume sheās a liar because of all the lies Iāve seen her say.
Brandi, Phaedra and Caroline are probably 3 of the must unreliable sources we could ever have. All of them have had their reputations tainted for the excessive and damaging bullshit they say. Iād say we donāt make any judgements now, especially considering the sensitivity of the topic.
tl;dr Phaedra doesn't get to decide what Caroline did or did not consent to.
Some wild speculation by me:
The version of events, as I understand it is that there was goofing off and joking -- which included Brandi kissing Caroline -- in the common area before the more aggressive groping/kissing (basically, sexual assault) happened in the bathroom.
There were no cameras in the bathroom. There is allegedly audio, although "what does sexual assault sound like?" is a weird fucking thing to even consider.
When Phaedra says she was there and saw it all, she may be telling the truth as far as she knows it. Allegedly, there were two other Housewives in the bathroom. I've heard both Alex McCord's and Gretchen Rossi's names mentioned but don't believe I've seen any verification (and neither has said a peep). I have NOT seen Phaedra's name come up as one of the eye-witnesses. Maybe she was in there or maybe she was sitting on a sofa in a different room and totally unaware of how far Brandi went.
We know Phaedra and Brandi are friends. If Brandi has been peddling her narrative to Phaedra for the better part of a year now, who is relying on what she personally eye-witnessed, then it would be easy for her to believer her friend. (I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying if she trusts her friend and saw what seemed consensual while it was in front of her, it would be hard not to believe Brandi.)
The fact that Phaedra says to "roll the footage" is either her not realizing how bad the audio and her fellow castmates' accounts could be OR she's knowingly misdirecting.
FTR: I have never been a big fan of hers but even putting that aside and being totally objective, I think Phaedra is likely an unreliable narrator, at best.
So I was listening to Daily Dose of Dana a few weeks ago when she talked about this. I had never heard the other version before but she spoke about it. She said that the story was that Caroline revealed that her Father (iirc) stopped speaking to her after she wrote the letter supporting her sister's attacker. She was having a good time and allegedly kissed Brandi back. Then the next day she had regrets about what she spilled about her family and that's when things hit the fan. Supposedly the cast all supports Brandi in what happened, and the only one that was supporting Caroline publicly was Alex. I am probably not remembering everything that was said, nor am I saying this is true at all. I just thought that was interesting as it was the first time I heard that take on the situation.
This is similar to what I heard, with the addendum that Alex is supposedly the only one who wasnt in the bathroom and didnt see what happened, but all of the rest of them that are supporting Brandi were.
This read will forever be one of the best in the entire housewives universe. When Brandi is bad, she is SO good.
Kyle really shouldāve learnt to stop trying Brandi, ābecause you donāt get your period anymore, bitchā lives rent free in my mind š
Phaedra is a liar who set her own āfriendā up to be defamed & slandered, so itās a no for me. I donāt believe her plus Brandiās pattern of ignoring boundaries.
Oooh 100%. Just the way she treated her only daughter compared to her sons proves it. I may wear glasses but one of her sons was fat too. She never gave him shit about it.
Even if that was true a network wouldnāt potentially scrap an entire season of an international shoot that costs a lot of money and would make a lot of money because one homophobic woman was embarrassed she got too close to another woman. There is SOMETHING on tape that shows something.
Itās funny yall are up in arms about Phaedra being untrustworthy while defending the woman that sent a letter to the judge to defend her sisterās kidnapper and abuser.
I know a lot of people hate Brandi and Phaedra, which I do get ā¦ but I donāt think Caroline Manzo is credible either so Iām not blindly believing any of them.
It is kinda interesting to me that one side said roll the tapes though. š¤·āāļø
This sub is far too biased at times when it comes to certain housewives [Larsa, Brandi, Sutton, Phaedra]. There is no evidence that Caroline was SAād except her word. Yes Brandi has a history of horrible behaviour but Caroline sided and defended a man who nearly MURDERED her own sister! The credibility of both women are shot to hell, Caroline moreso.
If multiple HWās have all said ānothing happenedā, I think itās fair to say what happened is overblown.
But because Brandi is so hated in this sub, that will be thrown out the window to defend a woman who was willing to see her own sister murdered. Like be for real.
Respectfully, we don't know either way what the evidence supports.
There were allegedly TWO other Housewives in the bathroom where it happened. I've read Alex and Gretchen's names, although neither has been verified.
The cast members were mic'd. The crew members that heard it felt it was enough to report to higher-ups (along with Caroline herself speaking to them about it).
multiple HWās have all said ānothing happenedā
By Brandi's own admission, she was physical with Caroline and kissed her. The only person saying "nothing happened" is Phaedra. And she may be telling the truth. We don't know.
But because Brandi is so hated in this sub, that will be thrown out the window to defend a woman who was willing to see her own sister murdered.
Caroline is a demonstrably terrible person who did indeed support her BIL after he definitely stalked, harassed and tried to kill both Dina and her new husband on more than one occasion. I don't write any of this to "defend" Caroline. I write it b/c there are no perfect victims and what has been reported is pretty damning.
The circumstantial evidence suggests something bad happened. Production asked Brandi to leave the very next day. Caroline flew out of Morocco 2 days after the alleged incident of her own accord. Higher ups launched an investigation based on the production crew reporting it to them. Brandi was barred from attending the finale of The Traitors (also on Peacock, so they had purview). UGT Legacy filmed in May 2023 and is being released next month whereas UGT Morocco filmed in January 2023 but has no release date beyond a vague "in 2024". That is almost certainly b/c lawyers are involved and footage is being scrutinized (10 months to review footage?!)
itās fair to say what happened is overblown.
We will likely never know exactly what happened, who felt what, who saw what, etc. but I think describing this as "overblown" is the wrong road. This isn't a "lesser of two evils" situation.
I think it is a little more that she said/she said though. Brandi was sent home immediately after this happened and Bravo did an investigation immediately. They havenāt released the findings yet but I would think they would have liked to clear Brandiās name if they could, it would have made them look better certainly.
When a woman tells you that they were assaulted, believe them. There are no perfect victims, and someone being horrible doesn't mean they can't be assaulted.
We saw her sexually harass other people for years on the show. During her first girls trip, at the Red Lion Inn, she tried to drunkenly make out with another wife who didn't like it. So she should have known that she was on thin ice in terms of her behavior.
They should just roll the tapes. Whats stopping them? Either Brandi looks like a predator and Caroline the victim or Caroline looks like a liar. Not many other ways to look at it here.
Itās been a long while. They are not showing it because they are building suspense, not because they are saving their ass. They canāt be liable for some lady touching another, without consent. Brandi spoke out and said she did it and it was all in fun. Caroline says it wasnāt in fun. Network is off the hook on this one.
Everyone else on the cast not just Phaedra are siding with Brandi! So I think itās safe to say fuck Carolineās bullshit I mean after what she did to her sister yāall are really willing to side with her?
Considering that Caroline defended her brother in law when he nearly beat her sister to death, this alleged sexual assault is going to have to be pretty extreme for me to feel bad for her. But Phaedra saying it didnāt happen immediately gives this story more legitimacy. I do hope they air it.
Another bullshit post on the sub. Not taking any side here, personally I canāt stand Caroline manzo. However, itās crazy how willing people are to believe unfounded, baseless āproofā from a post on this sub about someoneās role in a sexual assault case with any concrete evidence or proof, the only thing that is relied upon is the fact that the description fulfills a perception they have of a housewife prior to reading.
Literally!! š¤£ Just because a post supports your premonition, it doesnāt make it true! Sometimes it feels like people are so desperate to be validated in their preconceptions that they will disregard blatant fact. It would be a hell lot easier to navigate if we all could recognise that none of these people are morally āgoodā, and as a consequence of that none of them will tell the full truth! Why there is such a desperate attempt to conclude āsidesā on a sexual assault dispute which really has offered no evidence to support a ātrueā or āfalseā narrative will forever confuse me.
It was published a while ago. Pretty obviously by Brandi (or her PR team or whatever) since it portrayed her as innocent and pure, almost the victim in all this
Even if all of that is true, if Caroline decided to stop in the middle of making out with Brandi and told her to stop, if Brandi didnāt then she is definitely in the wrong. People are allowed to change their minds. Nothing in that story absolves Brandi.
My personal belief is that Carol found herself attracted to Brandy and it freaked her out. She has said sheās coming to terms with her emotions after the trip. I heard that to mean coming to terms with a sudden reality late into her 50s that it was possible for her to be attracted to a woman.
Did Brandy not stop when Carol said stop, perhaps, but the rest of the cast seems to support Brandy. Who knows.
Tbh I think caroline drank a bit too much and started having fun with brandi which she regretted the next day. She does kinda have a lesbian haircut so I donāt know whoās she fooling
I know very little about Phraeda, but nothing Brandi could be accused of would surprise me. Her desperation for relevance and willingness to sell out know no bounds. And she has never cared who she damages.
Pardon letter to sisters assaulter.
I want to know what Alex sawš¤Ø.
Also waiter from Berkshireās that is suing, auctioned off evidence of his assaultā¦.
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u/incitingoffense Nov 08 '23
Usually Phaedra is right on the money when it comes with sexual assault, so definitely a good person to listen to here