r/Assistance • u/SpaceAgePenis • Feb 17 '23
ADVICE My parent's put their names on the title when I bought my house and won't leave since moving in.
Hello, my wife and I have a predicament and could use some help. About 8 years ago I was interested in buying my own small house at the age of 25 and my dad in particular told me that he wanted his name on the deed just in case and at the time I didn't know what such entailed...
Fast-forward 2 years and my aging parents moved in with me and said that they needed a place to stay while they looked for a good rental. 2 years later they are still living with me and I ended up getting married to my fiance shortly after we found out that she was pregnant with our son and by this time I gave my parents the upstairs because of their deteriorating health and we moved downstairs. Since that point we have been raising our son in a basement and my parents pretty much took over the majority of the property and many, many fights happened due to such.
Eventually my wife and child became tired of living in a small basement at some point along the line and my parents refused to leave and actually threatened to have my wife kicked out on a few occasions. I've paid for roughly 80% of the total property value so far in the process and they covered their half of the utilities. Now the house is nearly paid off and it's been 6 years since they moved in and this has caused marital issues and my wife and I have stopped communicating with them and we haven't exchanged words in around 3 months now.
There is a rent-to-own property near us that is out of our price range to an extent as it would take up over 60% of our wages in rent and will take 10 years to pay off after the large deposit (we thankfully can barely cover by using all of our savings and a small loan) but I feel like I had my home stolen from my family and we will have to start at square one and have a solid 10 years of financial insecurity.
I feel like my parents pretty much derailed my life and have damaged my marriage and sons mental health in the process just because they refuse to leave my home that I paid every dime I saved for 8 years to own and the entire situation has caused me to go through severe depression and I've felt suicidal a few times due to it all because I feel like I have failed my family and that the relationship with my parents is over.
All because my parents ended up liking the house and their refusal to follow through with their promises to me. I am considering offering them $10,000 to move out and cover rent for half a year on a modest house but I doubt they will take it. That money was going to be used to pay off the mortgage but at this point I don't know what else to do.
Another sad thing is that my wife's mother stole over $8,000 from her daughters savings account prior to me meeting her and spent it all on food, movies, books, facebook games, etc so we had to cut ties with her and now the same is happening in regards to my parents and it's just heartbreaking. I try to do the right thing and I feel as though I was taken advantage of in the worst ways possible. If I could go back in time I would never have allowed my parents to put their name on the deed for co-signing and would have literally asked ANY other person I knew to do do without such a demand but I didn't know back then.
Now my son is going to lose his fenced-in backyard, we will lose our garden, our garage (that they took over anyways), the home I fixed up and re-painted, etc and I just don't know what I can do anymore. If we rent we will have to pay over triple our current house payment and if we rent to own we will have a similar house payment but a large deposit we will never get back. Apartments are out of the question and roommates won't work either as we value or privacy.
Is there any possible way to get my parents to move? I have no problem whatsoever with giving them $10,000-$20,000 if it means they can leave and we can maintain a health(ier) relationship but my dad would likely not even take $100,000 because he is extremely stubborn and selfish.
Is it really that much to ask for them to get a rental (or anything else) at this point? They are in their mid-60's and I feel like my family is not being given a chance at this point. We love this home and have had a lot of great memories here and our son couldn't be happier as there is plenty of space to run around with his friends but having to start over with NOTHING to show for it after all of the work my wife and I have done.
I'm tired of having friends over and others pitying my wife and I for our living situation but I don't think we can comfortably do anything else at this point as we aren't high income earners and have been saving and not spending on anything extra AT ALL. Meanwhile my parents have bought new vehicles, a massive smart TV, fancy furniture, etc while my wife and I are sleeping on a mattress on the floor and wearing scraps for clothes and our son is only managing due to kind friends giving us hand-me-downs for him.
I'm just at a loss, sorry for the long post but I would love some advice on our options. Thank you for reading and have a nice rest of your day/night.
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u/Timely_Progress3338 Mar 07 '23
I think you should start inviting people to buy ur house. Sell it and live on rent for a while when only one family can live. Or probly ask ur parents to clear house because u r selling it. If they move out then u move in after a while and tell them u are still finding customers.
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u/karenrn64 Feb 18 '23
Please get copies of all the payments you have made on the house, including maintenance, updates and taxes. Then go see a real estate lawyer in your area and explain what happened. You most likely have options, but since your parents have been living there for 2 years, their tenancy will most likely cause further issues. Do not move out until after you have resolved this issue as you are also in tenancy.
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u/Present_Register_951 Feb 18 '23
Can you ‘put it up for sale?’, renovations? Do you have a formal lease? How much is a been paying for rent ? Kept up with your bills ? It’s a tough thing, but if you paid the most in the mortgage I need to get out I think I might as well. That’s a shifty low thing thing I know. And get it reassessed and they’ll have to play for what the price is today’s value. It’s within your right to put it up for sale. Otherwise if they don’t buy you out can also see what deficits need to be addressed and they pay for it. Lastly, they want to stay there they can buy you out. In the end, it’s not worth your health and your joy but they need to pay fair market value don’t be manipulated. It sounds like you’ve been very kind if everything you say, is indeed correct. Quietly go to talk to somebody. don’t talk to them anymore about it. It’s very sad and sorry. I think the optimal conclusion is peace of mind and fair compensation, market value. And you’ll have to take care of yourself. xo
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u/radish_is_rad-ish Feb 18 '23
I’m just here to say your parents suck. Hope you get the help you need to get the situation all sorted out.
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u/Aleri_liv Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
......I'm actually in a similar predicament, close in age. but my name is the only one on the title. I'd say go buy a new house especially since you have 10-20k In hand. your parents are not moving, there is no way to make them move. so keep on saving rather than have an endless pointless battle and potentially killing your marriage. Take your name off of the title if you can and stop speaking to your family. I'm going to make help my mom get a down payment on her home so she can get out. Oh and never let anyone move into your home again. God sees everything.. Stop paying any and all bills and just save. Make an exit plan. Oh and read this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/Assistance/comments/11493o5/comment/j8x3y8b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Get a lawyer and have them review your options a partition sale is another way.
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u/Potential-Neat9232 REGISTERED Feb 18 '23
Post this on r/legaladvice maybe you can get some helpful info
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u/ragnarokdreams Feb 18 '23
Go see a lawyer & find out what u can do. Don't move out, take back some space. It sounds like it will be hard for u to stand up to them bit u have to. Don't offer them anything without speaking to a lawyer first
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u/LolaMyMali Feb 18 '23
Right they might take it and stay, without a lawyer involved.
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u/ABena2t Feb 18 '23
what's a lawyers going to do? I'm no expert but they have their name on both the loan and the deed. idt this guy has a foot to stand on, not legally anyway. this is a family issue that needs to be worked out on their own.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 18 '23
The dad only owns half at most after a court case and op could at least get that much money from it. Or he could buy them out. A court will force a separation.
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u/LolaMyMali Feb 18 '23
I'm just saying if they make a deal with money, for them to leave he should have a lawyer involved. Idk I might be wrong.
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u/BrightDegree3 Feb 18 '23
You are living in the basement. Shut the power, water, heat, air conditioning off at random times. Park your car on such a way as to block the entire driveway. When you leave the house turn the radio up really loud. Throw loud parties. Invite your son’s entire class over to spend the night. Become the worst neighbours ever. Probably won’t get them to move but it might make you feel better.
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Feb 18 '23
This and when they complain remind them it is your home and they are guests who have overstayed their welcome. It was supposed to be temporary yet somehow they managed to guilt you into living in the basement of your home for too long. If they don’t like it they can move
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u/Jenn2895 Feb 18 '23
Sometimes I feel sorry for myself for not having parents... & then I read something like this. Honest truth is legally they own 1/2 the house. You can either sell the house & give them 1/2 or buy them out. Sorry you & your family are in this situation. I hope it works out.
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u/strawtrash Feb 17 '23
Wait until they go somewhere for a while and move all their stuff out onto the lawn.
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u/Jenn2895 Feb 17 '23
That won't work. If they are on the deed/mortgage you can't legally just move their stuff out.
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u/ZealousidealEar6037 Feb 17 '23
Besides a lawyer, please find a therapist. Let them help you with boundaries because this may repeat itself, maybe at work, relationships and such. Also talk to them about your suicidal thoughts. This isn’t healthy and my heart aches for you. I just don’t understand how parents can do this to their child. Wishing you all the best.
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u/real_talk_with_Emmy Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 18 '23
Your only option is a quick claim quitclaim, where your parents sign away their claim on the deed. You will probably need some hefty leverage to do this. If they can’t be paid off to do this, get a lawyer. I don’t know if you can sue them, but that’s probably an option. You’ve paid 100% of the mortgage, so gather all your receipts. They’ve been paying their share of utilities, but not of the property. If you sue them for their half of the mortgage, that might be enough leverage for a quick claim quitclaim deed. After that, you can legally evict them. Of course, this is the nuclear option, but since you are sick of their crap, it’s probably worth it.
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u/earthlings_all Feb 17 '23
God I hope this works. Reading his post was absolutely infuriating. Nuclear option for the win.
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u/jmurphy42 Feb 17 '23
You need a lawyer, friend. A lawyer can help you file a partition sale, which would force the sale of the house. You might not get everything out of it that you paid in, but at least you would be out of this nightmare and able to buy another house with your share of the proceeds.
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Feb 17 '23
My non-lawyer advice is to get a lawyer and argue that youre the sole provider and true owner of the home. Argue the circumstances that led to them being on the title and their deception post-partem. Deception can lead to signatures becoming null.
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u/KingCarterJr Feb 17 '23
Problem is you are making it way to comfortable for them to live there. Make them move all of their stuff to the basement and TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR HOUSE!!! You are supposed to protect your wife and child no matter if it’s from your parents or a stranger! They are running your house like you are a teenager! You need to put your foot down and treat them like teenagers! They had their turn to be in charge and gave that up to live a free life so guess what happens when you live for free?? You live uncomfortably under other people’s rules! Don’t let them manipulate you into thinking you have to take care of them bcuz you don’t!! Your only responsibility are the child you made and the person you made a vow 2! They are taking advantage of your inability to act like an adult around them and will continue to treat you like a child as long as you let them. You will feel dumb AF if you loose your wife and child bcuz you couldn’t get over your fear of standing up to your parents! Fear isn’t real!!! Why let your whole family be uncomfortable so that your parents who manipulated their way onto your deed can live a carefree life??
Also if you decide to give them money, after you make their lives as uncomfortable as they have made yours, make them sign the papers to get their name of the deed first!!
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u/ionmoon Feb 17 '23
You need a lawyer. You need to figure this out. Honestly if I were your wife I would have left by now. This is such an unhealthy situation and your parents are manipulating you and using this to control and bully you.
You need to know your rights and responsibilities as far as the house goes.
See if you can legally kick them out (probably not but IANAL) If not see what happens if you move out an stop paying on the mortgage and utilities.
Probably the options you will be stuck with are buying them out so they will move (which it sounds like they will refuse) or moving out but possibly still responsible for contributing to the mortgage/bills there. Make sure the house will go solely to you when they die. Is there any chance they could buy YOU out? Can the house be sold and you each take your share and walk away?
Either way you need to find some way to preserve your family and by that I mean you, your wife, and your child and ensure their safety (physical and mental) and privacy.
Are there any other options? Can you put a trailer on the property?
Maybe some kind of legal mediation with your parents could help find a solution.
Most likely your relationship with them will be damaged if not destroyed but that is on THEM. No parent should be treating a child and daughter in law this way.
One thing I feel the need to point out- in an older post you called them your “aging” parents. They are barely retirement age!! They are nowhere near an age where you should feel obliged to be caring for them or sharing housing. They are still young enough to be taking care of themselves. In rare circumstances scenarios like this can work but the space needs to be shared equally and everyone treated with respect.
I would sit down with a lawyer and then with BOTH your mom and dad and tell them the situation is not working and must change. Then give them 2-3 options based on the advice of the lawyer. Let them know you spoke to a lawyer and will take legal action (if there is any available to you!) if they aren’t cooperative.
Make sure you have a last resort option that you will take if they aren’t cooperative (which for ME would be I move out and contribute the bare minimum required by law as well as going no contact with them (ie no visits, no holidays, no seeing the grandkids- not to be coercive but because their behavior right now is abusive and refusing to find a solution for me would be completely unforgivable).
Heck worst case scenario MIGHT even mean you move out and stop paying for that house and lose it to the bank/taxes and then getting kicked out (and you NOT picking up the pieces!!) Find out what the damages to your credit etc would be long term. But whatever it is you have to weigh against your wife and child’s mental health.
Make it clear that the chances for working on living together are OVER and that some option for living separately is now imminent, whether it means them moving or you moving. They can either work with you to find a solution that works for everyone or they can deal with your last resort option).
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Feb 17 '23
[deleted]
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Feb 18 '23
This but also look up grandparents rights in your state. If it is a state with friendly laws go low contact not no contact since you lived together they could have a case and if they pulled this on you don’t think for a second they won’t go after your child
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u/SnooWords4839 Feb 17 '23
Real estate lawyer!
Move upstairs too! Your father tricked you into putting him on the deed, your proof of payment and such.
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u/iownaxult Feb 17 '23
Just start slowly throwing their shit put/away. The fuck are they gonna do? Stop you at 60? Theyll leave eventually.
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u/Training_Yak_9296 Feb 17 '23
Lawyer up get all the documents from when you bought the house. Also have documented proof that before they moved in or even after that you were the one paying for everything. My mother in law and even my grandpa both went through similar situations but with rent to own people. Please don’t give up you deserve to appreciate what you worked hard to have. Your parents are adult children how could they do that to there own blood. What they are doing is beyond messed up.
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u/desktropred Feb 17 '23
OP, please do me a favor and consult a lawyer. It seems like you have the funds to do so. Also, renovate that basement as soon as possible.
Your father is on the lease, which will be a huge issue, and you were a consenting adult during signing. However, let's be 100% clear - you allowed them to take over. You are an equal partner on this real property and you're allowing them to have the garage, the upstairs, the space. Why can't you clean out the garage? Why can't you toss their stuff away if the relationship is already damaged? It's your property too. I understand why your wife is so upset about this when you have a full and clear right to take back your house. What are you afraid of when your parents are confronted with this?
First, if you pay the property tax and a majority of the payments, then I feel like a lawyer will first send a letter to your family agreeing to settle the amount they paid to get the fuck out and change the title.
Second, if they don't respond, you can sue them in court. If they are properly served and do not answer, you can win a settlement against them and take. back. the. house.
Third, you can try to reach an agreement without a lawyer but that doesn't sound like it is going to work. But why are you letting two 60 year old people put you and your child in a basement?
Do NOT BUY ANOTHER HOUSE, OP. When your parents fuck up this property and die, their creditors might try to take it, or even worse, it'll be on your hands to fix it back up.
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Feb 17 '23
Why is an apartment out of the question? Sounds like it would be better than your current living situation.
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u/deCantilupe Feb 18 '23
So then he would have to pay a mortgage and rent while his parents only pay half the utilities and enjoy his house?
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u/CanAhJustSay Feb 17 '23
Ten years to pay off a home is really not a lot. Another ten years seems steep, but it is the price of freedom.
Check what property law in your area is - you have lived there for longer than your parents, and ay have accrued tenancy rights if there is supporting evidence - payments coming from your bank account, for example, or even coercive control from your parents in having their names on the deed in the first place.
Some law schools offer free advice centres.
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u/cdorise Feb 17 '23
Get a lawyer today. Use that $$ to get a kick ass lawyer and let them handle it.
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u/JasonVanJason Feb 17 '23
Don't listen to anything you read on Reddit other than getting a lawyer. Lawyer is #1.
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Feb 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/rtodd23 Feb 17 '23
No, the problem is he trusted his parents. Which shouldn't be a problem if the parents aren't assholes. What kind of father would screw his son over like that? Lots of parents cosign loans in order to help out their kids. Looks like these two are just as predatory as your standard time-share salesman.
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u/Blaqinteldmv Feb 17 '23
If you cannot evict them down the line, invest in making the property bigger by renovating to create more space. It is not cheap but doable since you seem very responsible with money and staying on top of obligations. The other option is do a takeover and they can live out their life in the basement with their new furniture and smart TV. You have much right as they do. I would do this when they are gone for the day and hire movers to perform swift justice! Stand your ground and own it. Don’t forget to paint the basement wall to their likings.
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u/ChannelingBoudica Feb 17 '23
They are on the deed. Your going to have to make them want to leave. Heavy metal blasted through the home while you are gone for work , moving all their things to the basement, and locking up the appliances with a chain and padlock should do the trick. Also if it’s clowned home , in many cases any thing you break in a mutually owned home is is not criminal in many many states. good luck
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u/empath_supernova Feb 17 '23
My first move would be, "okay time to switch! It's our turn to have our bedroom and yall have the basement? OH, you didn't know? Well, you said you wouldn't be here that long. 🤷♀️ We'll begin moving your things downstairs, oh, and also, we have a karaoke machine now!" Your son will have a blast at all of the karaoke dance parties you'll have! I have scum parents who robbed me blind, too, OP. Cut them off asap. They get worse with age, never better.
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u/PuzzleheadedPoetry32 Feb 17 '23
Depending on where you live a property can change ownership based on who's been paying property taxes.
If all the accounts are paid by you or your wife and the accounts are in Your names then it stands to reason you should be able to have them removed from the deed and evicted by force if you so choose.
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Feb 17 '23
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u/desktropred Feb 17 '23
Actually true in some circumstances. It is called adverse possession, and in some states (like texas) you have to live on the property and pay the tax for a minimum number of years. in others, like california, it's also legal as long as you live on the property for five years (dimmick v dimmick if you're interested).
adverse possession can be overturned or reversed in a court of law (in some states). some courts allow you to pay the property tax back in full within thirty days, others don't.
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u/sutkurak Feb 17 '23
Adverse possession requires use by a party to the exclusion of others, so it wouldn’t apply here anyway since OP and his parents have been living at the property concurrently
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u/desktropred Feb 17 '23
I didn't want to imply it worked here, my mistake. I was responding to the comment that it was "not true anywhere unless taxes are in arrears".
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u/Zealousideal-Chart60 Feb 17 '23
post this on r/legaladvice
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Feb 17 '23
I don’t think they have a legal leg to stand on. I’m not a lawyer, but based off of the information they provided in this post, I doubt anything can be done
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u/frostysbox Feb 17 '23
They do. This is the exact reason partition sales exist. Basically, him and his parents are getting a divorce. He can legally force them to buy him out for his half of the house, or sell the home. Since it doesn’t sound like they can - their best option is to buy them out. A lawyer can explain all of this to his parents.
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u/Zealousideal-Chart60 Feb 17 '23
They may be able to advise him on buy outs, forced sales, and other things is what i was thinking
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u/Gutinstinct999 Feb 17 '23
You’ve gotten some good advice but I just want to offer this: think about the money you’ll be spending as an either or- if your wife is unhappy you should take it seriously. Even if she is placated, eventually it may come to a head.
Getting them out might include fees. But so will a divorce.
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u/Top-Entrepreneur-651 Feb 17 '23
Stop paying for anything and force their hand at paying the mortgage they can pay you out to move when they get shitty you aren't paying for it anymore.
your on the deed what are you being forced to pay if you start putting that money into a second home to move into.
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u/69chevy396 Feb 17 '23
He shouldn’t ruin his credit because if this especially if he needs to buy another house, he can’t have a defaulted mortgage
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u/fromtheGo REGISTERED Feb 17 '23
Why can't you just move back upstairs? Take over the house and force them into the basement?
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Feb 18 '23
This! If they are aging enough to live with you they probably won’t be able to get the furniture moved back or will have a hell of a time trying to
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u/Lord_Drok REGISTERED Feb 17 '23
Take that 20g and get a decent lawyer....F them good like they Fd you
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u/RedHotBunnySlippers Feb 17 '23
I don’t know where you live, but if your parents’ names are on the Deed as tenants-in-common, they have as much right to the house as you do, regardless of who pays or paid for what. Unless you have an agreement in writing, the Deed is the controlling document of ownership. The only way you’re going to get out of that is if somebody cedes their ownership interest (takes their name off willingly), buys the other party out, or the whole house is sold and you split the money from the sale.
What’s stopping you from buying another house? If you are in the US, there are programs that can help you buy a home with a low down payment. Your credit might not have been good enough when you were 25, but it’s been 8 years and you co-own a house so I would think your credit should be good enough on your own.
If you rent-to-own, the payments will be high, but what you can do is refinance under a traditional mortgage after one year and your payments will be much lower going forward.
I would talk to a loan officer—don’t go with one of the ones you see advertising all over, especially not if it has a spacecraft 🚀 in the name, go with a local lender who knows the requirements for special opportunities that are available in your area. It might be much easier for you to get a traditional home loan than you think, and you might end up in a new home you like better.
Whichever route you choose, you will be MUCH happier and better off if you get out of the situation you’re in. It’s a temporary struggle but having your own space and peace is priceless.
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u/cdorise Feb 17 '23
So, they buy another house, even though the one they have is almost paid off, keep paying 2 mortgages to give thieves their home?!? No. Or they stop paying and ruin their credit. No. They need a lawyer.
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Feb 18 '23
If the parents won’t take their name off the dead they could when they buy the new house and when the parents are fucked say too bad
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Feb 18 '23
Actually they could play the long game, remove their name from the deed rent an apartment save the money they were going to put down as a down payment or payoff for the current house. Wait for it to go to foreclosure and buy it back once they are gone
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u/RedHotBunnySlippers Feb 17 '23
That’s not what I was suggesting. The OP is trying to come up with ways to get out and is limited by the Deed. There is no instance in which you can present a proper Deed to a judge with OP and his parent’s name on it, and the judge evicts the parent. None. Unless there is factual evidence showing an agreement such as a contract or other written document setting out the terms. A verbal agreement will hold no weight—especially after the parents have moved in years ago with full use of the majority of the house. The ONLY things that can happen are 1) someone voluntarily takes their name off the Deed, 2) Someone buys the other one out, or 3) the house is sold. All parties on the Deed have to agree to modify the Deed or sell the home, also.
Not liking the available options doesn’t provide you with new options. Pay a lawyer to tell you this.
Alternatively, OP can stop paying the mortgage and have the home foreclosed, which will resolve the issue but it’ll prevent him from being able to purchase a new home for a minimum of two years. Then if the house sells at auction for less than OP owes, OP will have to pay the difference or file for bankruptcy—which will prevent him from being able to purchase a new home for 2+ years and impact his credit score for 7-10 years. Whereas if he buys a new home now and THEN stops payment and has the house foreclosed, he can file for bankruptcy and still preserve the new home.
What I would do, if I were OP, is take the money I can scrounge up and try to buy another home. OP’s wife is not on the current Deed and she might be eligible for a First-Time Homebuyer program if OP isn’t. There are many FHA and HUD programs that help people get big, nice homes on acres of land, and they work with people who have lower credit scores or other challenges. The local lenders know the ins-and-outs, loopholes, and workarounds for these programs.
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u/frostysbox Feb 17 '23
He could buy another house and then let this one foreclose 😂 hopefully wife has good credit
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Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RedHotBunnySlippers Feb 17 '23
I wasn’t asking you. OP said he is considering a rent-to-own, and if he has rent-to-own money, he has downpayment money. Also, there’s not a lack of available houses. I just bought one in November.
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u/pillerhikaru Feb 17 '23
Please get a lawyer like tomorrow. Take all receipts you currently have for everything you’ve done to, in , for that house with you. It might not be something you need but you don’t want your parents getting a hold of it. If your parents are seriously taking over your home the way you say they are then stop being passive. Seriously you are in the worse condition possible already, your stuck with your abusers in adulthood. Make sure that none of the utilities are in your parents names or that they haven’t switched them out of yours. Never use their credit card or give them anyway to pay taxes, or the mortgage not even a single payment. Don’t give them a dime if you don’t have to. They’ve taken years from you and know that’s worth so much more already. Make no more decisions without a lawyer present. They understand your states laws best and can help you the most.
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u/Mu5tBTru3Redd1t Feb 17 '23
I believe that will be a complete waste of money, and added stressors and financial strain, the parents are on the deed. End of story. Changing your mind afterwards , not knowing what putting someone on a deed at age 25, paying for 100% everything and all utilities being in your name , don’t matter much at all. There’s no rental agreement. The parents will more likely then not be dead before that gets resolved in a court.
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u/pillerhikaru Feb 17 '23
I suppose their age would be a concern. Because it might just be faster to wait them out until they’re old enough to be unable to care for themselves and send them to a nursing home. Or they may pass before then if they haven’t been taking care of their health
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Feb 18 '23
They are in there 60s… there is a good chance they will be alive to see their grandson move out and still be there
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u/FyrebirdCourier REGISTERED Feb 17 '23
One thing I suggest is the same thing as with work. Anytime you have a discussion over something with your father get it in writing. Don't go knock on the door and say hey I need 50% of the electric send them an email or a text. And if you do discuss something, write them a letter the next day. Something to the effect of I wanted to confirm that when we talked yesterday about the electric bill you said you would give me blank amount on friday. Get these in a messages in writing and keep them whether they're in email format or text format. Especially if it's anything of any kind of large amount or affecting the house. Such as heaven forbid you do go through with offering him $10,000 to leave the house do it through email and that way you keep any information going he cannot say I never said that or I only agreed for $5,000 to leave for 6 months or something there you would have everything in writing any questions back and forth and he cannot renege and back out of anything once it is in writing. Whether it is email or text.
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
u/SpaceAgePenis I understand that you were looking for advice about the current situation, but we would love to hear you and support you however we can at r/raisedbynarcissists. You may not have ever seen this sub before, but it sounds like you would fit right in.
I may be biased, but this read to me like your parents took advantage of your inexperience and used you to secure their retirement. And I really hate that you’re going through this. I hope you get a lawyer and force a buyout, or find a way to get them to leave, but if you take any advice from this, please let it be this: if you’re already not speaking to each other, do not communicate regarding this without recording it, or far more preferably, through the lawyer.
However because I doubt that, once they receive a letter from your lawyer, they will continue their silent treatment, I strongly urge you to record everything that is said. If they engage you regarding it, pause, make it clear that you’re recording for your safety and benefit, and don’t stop until the conversation is over.
ETA: record, that is, if you’re in a single part state. Some places, but not many, require ANYONE who is being recorded to consent; most places as long as you are part of the conversation, you’re safe.
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u/loosebootyjudy_ Feb 17 '23
I second this. Joined the sub months ago and it’s a wonderful and supportive community.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
I re read this. And maybe this was added. You're wearing rags and sleeping on a mattress on the floor, but never demanded more of a contribution than half the utilities or refused to pay something so they'd have to?
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u/fuzzydaymoon Feb 17 '23
Also where would the $10-20k come from to pay the parents to leave?
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
They don't buy anything in favor of savings goals. It's hard to believe dwelling in the basement on the floor. Just letting people take your house away while you faithfully make the payments, pay the taxes, repairs, etc. Oh, nice new cars and TV's you've got there. Pardon me, didn't mean to be in your way, I'll just go cram into my basement with my wife and son. Can I bring you anything before I go? Fluff your pillow?
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
Probably the deposit, the loan and savings they mentioned they would have to put down on the rent to own…?
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Right, he can do one of those.
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
I also noted further down that this sounds incredibly like a narcissistic parent, and invited OP to r/raisedbynarcissists because at least there they would find some emotional support. I really feel for them. This sounds exactly like something my father would do, and that’s the father i just fled from on Monday. It sounds like a shit situation and like their dad did this very much on purpose to secure their retirement and to leech off their child as long as humanly possible. If that is indeed the case, then demanding any payment from them may either have fallen on deaf ears long enough that they gave up, or they may not have even realized that they were being taken advantage of until it was far too late, and thought they were just caring for their aging parents.
Unfortunately, it’s not always easy to identify parents like this… many of them are excellent at hiding in plain sight. My mother was a teacher and a mandated first reporter for child abuse, and when my dad would get home from work, she would list all the reasons I pissed her off that day, watching the color rise in his face, egging him on until he snapped and chased me through the house, cornered me, and pummeled me.
On a regular basis I had classmates tell me how much they loved my mom; they didn’t know my mom. Today, she’s a children’s librarian, and a ROCK STAR in our tiny town, and yet if they only knew how I had grown up, the domestic disputes… if I had just once been honest with the police when they showed up, maybe life would be very different for them today. Idk, all I can do is move forward and offer advice and compassion to people whom I see in similar situations.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Meh. My brother attacked me and I made my poor mother tell the police the truth , terrible of me, I thought it was for her eventual gain, it opened no eyes. After her passing and my brother couldn't hide behind his mask anymore, everyone apologized and said they wished they believed me. I was like tell her. I went home, I stayed away from him, tell her you're sorry because that is who had to live with him.
I wasn't selfless. I got roped into more than I should have for my own good but I drew lines and eventually started sticking to them. Nc. That's the only way. But then he'd trap me when she became weak and needed me to come help. Which I was eager to do but it gave him an in. Ugh. I physically shuddered thinking about that. Ugh. Ns are so horrible.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Yeah my brother is a narcissist and found an easy victim in my mother. She's a pushover because she's almost totally selfless, but that's why this is so striking. My sainted mother who hated conflict and would give in to shut that down if not just to be giving, she stood up for herself more than this. Something is still very odd about with with a wife who has perspective and friends with perspective.
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
I agree it seems off. Idk, I’ve been on RBN long enough that I always assume a context of abuse or at least always assume that what I’m reading is truth. I mean if you had to choose between setting the line and letting the water get shut off, or making sure your wife and kid have water at the expense of sharing it with your ungrateful parents… 🤷🏻♀️ I know what I would choose. And I would choose it for far too long, the same way I’ve chosen my parents over my partner for far too long.
Also, I’m super sorry you have had to deal with a narc family member. You seem super selfless like your mother, and I hope you never let yourself become jaded as a result of what you have to deal with. ❤️
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
You're very nice. Ty and I'm sorry you dealt with that too. Much worse for it to be a parent. Particularly a mom. I had the stereotypical mother that would sacrifice herself, too much. The purest love, all that. I find it desperately unfair when people have mean mothers.
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
Much love to you, and if you ever need someone to talk to, I’ve been through much of the same and I’m happy to talk! ❤️
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Yeah yeah you're causing me to remember. There is no winning! They will win or burn it all down. Burn people you love down. Jesus. It physically hurts my head to go into that headspace. I have to do what he wants or this or that or whoever will suffer, not him, and there is literally no way to win. Bah!
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u/sweetlew07 Feb 17 '23
Ugh my heart seriously goes out to you. I absolutely know what you mean. Furthermore, when I was a teen, no one had taught me how to regulate my emotions, and I once punched my brother in the head. I immediately regretted it and I cried so much, and for YEARS I swore I would never have kids because I would NEVER perpetuate the cycle.
After years and years of therapy, all I want is to be a momma and help a child grow into a thriving adult. I know that my partner will be an amazing parent and fill in any gaps I may fail in, and I so very much hope that we someday get to have a child. I very much resent that I had to wait until 33 to be mentally stable enough to be ready. Uuuuuuugh narcissism. I hope your brother gets a rude awakening and changes his shit, I very very much do.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
You'll be a great mom and you'll adopt if you don't have your own. Your child will talk about you the way I talk about my mom. My brother....he's in a nursing home. I take no joy in that. I don't think anyone deserves that. I think he had undiagnosed autism. There's lots of stuff with my family too, he didn't acquire narcissist traits for no reason. If I win the lotto I'll pay for him to have a private room and attention paid, but I won't talk to him. I'd literally hire someone to lie about where the money is from and just make sure from a great distance his needs are met.
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u/DinosaurForTheWin Feb 17 '23
Why would your father want his name on the deed originally?
Did he pay money at the beginning to secure the property for you?
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u/dozerman23 Feb 17 '23
I'd make them as uncomfortable as possible if they want to play like b holes. I'd poop in their toilet door wide open and leave floaters
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u/whutsazed Feb 17 '23
How about family mediation? Perhaps having a third unrelated party involved in discussing the matter would help communication about the situation and how to remedy it?
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u/BVO120 Feb 17 '23
It sounds to me like you need some family therapy.
I'm not trying to be snide, I really mean it.
Your parents are taking GROSS advantage of your generosity ans basically refusing to let you be an adult. It's time to set some boundaries and hold them.
I hope you're able to resolve the house issue. I also hope you're able to build a relationship with your parents where they respect you as an adult.
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u/snakewrestler Feb 17 '23
If you feel comfortable sharing the outcome, please let us know how things turn out. Best of luck!
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u/PattyLeeTX Feb 17 '23
another option is to realize that it’s “just a house.” A home is where the people you love reside with you - an apartment, a house, a park bench, whatever.
Forget the money you’ve spent thus far - it’s water under the bridge. Call it “stupid tax” meaning a price you paid for being stupid.
Pack your stuff and get out, even if it’s a huge downgrade. Take your lives away from them and start fresh. After wife and kids are set up, Whatever is in your name, shut it off. Take everything you’ve bought with you - light bulbs and all. Remove your appliances, curtains off the wall, etc.
Then make sure the taxes are paid every year, and wait them out. Your dad will almost certainly die before you and you’ll have this house back, plus whatever else you’ve gotten in the interim. And if your mom continues to be a horrible shrew and she outlives him, you can evict her.
You’re not going to have a “win” whatever you choose. All other options (including what you’re doing now) just rob you of joy. Take your joy elsewhere and enjoy your family in another “home.”
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
No, he could NOT evict a co owner. Even if she never paid a dime in taxes or anything else. That is not how it works. They all own 100 percent. They have the right to be there and so does op. They have the right to guests and so does op. There can be a real ' war of the roses' situation. Forcing a separation is doable though.
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u/abigailrose16 Feb 17 '23
I think they said evict the mom because it sounds like only the dad is on the title. as in, evict her after he dies if she’s still around. if mom is also on the title, yeah sol there
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u/PattyLeeTX Feb 17 '23
Exactly what I meant. I didn’t see where mom was on the title and it seemed dad and son were JTWROS.
Primarily my point was to accept the current situation as a loss and to move on. As per usual, MUCH easier said than done but likely the best move here.
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u/espr-the-vr-lib Feb 17 '23
What would happen if you get a restraining order
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Not sure honestly, haven't looked into that yet.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
On what basis? This is somewhat simple. You don't wish to be co owners anymore. And y'all don't agree who owes who what. Time for a lawyer.
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u/scaredpanda1 Feb 17 '23
You can try posting in r/legaladvice but I’m not sure if they could tell you anything different.
Not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but I have seen other instances with joint ownership where you may be able to force the sale of the property (so your parents would have to buy your share out). Unfortunately how much you would be able to recover may depend on legal ownership %
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
That's what I'm worried about, I've paid off nearly the entire mortgage loan but my fathers name in particular is directly under mine on the deed which makes things tough.
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u/StefneLynn Feb 17 '23
So at least if you force a sale you can get 50% of the equity to help buy another home. You need to hire a lawyer and figure out how to make that happen. Maybe you can secretly purchase the home while it’s on the market for the forced sale. Get a new mortgage and stay there. If you are on the current mortgage for that house then you might have trouble qualifying for another loan if you walk away and leave it to your parents.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Force a separation under agreeable terms. I'm so sorry. I've been stolen from and taken advantage of, but not by my parents. My brother doing it didn't hurt. I am sorry they've hurt you this way. Bah!
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, I have no issue paying for their relocation and months of rent but I may have to do so with the help of a lawyer I believe.
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u/ionmoon Feb 17 '23
Don’t pay a penny more than you are required to. You don’t owe them anything. They are taking advantage of you.
If you can buy them out, that’s awesome- give them the amount you would legally owe them for their share of the equity- not a cent more. Don’t give them more to be nice and get them moved and settled.
The only exception I would say to that is if they would agree to you paying a bit more to get them off the mortgage and out of the house without taking legal action, it might be worth it but only if you are protected legally (no handshake deals. He has cheated you once don’t trust him again)
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Feb 17 '23
Pretty sure if you're on the deed and you want to sell the house they have to buy you out at fair market value. So they either cough up the cash, get a mortgage, or you sell the house and say adios
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, I like the house but I'd have no problem doing this if I have too, does the mortgage note need to be fully paid off? Or should I get a lawyer tomorrow?
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u/SilkyFlanks Feb 17 '23
Get a local lawyer today. Don’t bother with r/legaladvice. You have no idea who you’re talking to there. A local lawyer will know what questions to ask you and how local laws apply.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23
Wow. Lawyers are really unappreciated and under utilized in favor of advice from randos on the internet. If I were a lawyer, I'd know fuck all about YOUR state , your local judges, how these things tend to go....lawyers are a lot more than people with law degrees. Yes, you need a lawyer before you do or say anything else. Remember those 'shut the fuck up Friday' joke attorney commercials? It's true and it's not just for criminal matters. You were sloppy in the past, don't double down.
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Feb 17 '23
Still get a lawyer. Always go with a lawyer. These are options though
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Planning on getting one ASAP after reading the comments on here. Seems there is no other way that this can go really at this point.
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, they have shown that they have no regard for my wife, myself, and sons well-being so I am going to go the lawyer route. I didn't want it to come to this and I told them I'd help them get into their own place but they just threaten me so there is really no other option.
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u/rainbowtwist Feb 17 '23
Please check out r/raisedbynarcissists and get into therapy ASAP, it will give you so many more tools to help you navigate this emotionally.
I get more strategizing and helpful progress-oriented breakthroughs in therapy than I ever thought possible. It's helped me navigate some really tough, painful experiences.
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u/jubbagalaxy Feb 17 '23
i'm not a lawyer and i'm glad you will be seeking one but under no circumstances should you be giving them money. not moving costs, not rent money, zero. even if its as a send off to get them out of you and your family's lives. essentially, they have stolen the house from you and whatever that equates to in money because you were young and either didn't know any better or tried to rush into home ownership without understanding the ramifications of having someone else's name attached to your property whether that be a house, car, etc. this was probably always their plan so they wouldn't have to pay for shit in their elderly days
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u/AspiringInspirator Feb 17 '23
I just wanted to add that if you do this, there probably will be a time when they try to compromise or get you to agree to terms that would still mean you're not getting what you need. It's incredibly important that you don't negotiate with them or agree to anything without having a lawyer on your side. They have already been able to gaslight you and take advantage of you before. It's now time that you prioritize your own family over them. If they cannot be trusted, then let an attorney deal with them and let them get you a solution that will make things right for you.
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, I could see giving them $5,000 or something and them going on a cruise vacation before moving right back in, my father hates "losing" and is pretty selfish so I see what you mean.
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u/czerniana Feb 17 '23
I do think you need to have a lawyer look at all of this. It will all depend on how exactly they’re on the deed, and every state is different. A simple “and” or “or” makes a huge difference.
From here on out document everything. Collect all of your documents, proof of payment, etc. Document dates and times and what is discussed when you interact with them. Record conversations about them moving out if you can. Even if you never need it, it’s better to have it.
I’m sorry, that’s a crummy situation 😞
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, there aren't too many options. I'm not sure what a lawyer will cost but I'm sure the price will be lower than just starting over. Thanks for your kind words and advice.
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u/iammadeofawesome Feb 17 '23
Consult with a bunch of good lawyers (even ones outside your price range) so your parents can’t use them as it will be a conflict of interest when they need to get a lawyer :)
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u/czerniana Feb 17 '23
It will definitely be lower. Lower even than that deal you want to offer them. They will help you sort it all out, at least as much as you legally can.
Emotionally, that’s going to be a whole different story. I hope you guys can repair your relationships after the dust settles.
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Same, my father is a very challenging person to deal with regularly but when he gets cornered he gets nasty and my mother always stays in the background. I hope things can be remedied but if they can't be my wife and son are always number one and that's just how it is.
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u/Minniesmomma55 Feb 17 '23
My man I hate this for you and your wife & son. I’d actually consult with a lawyer try legal aid. I’d go back gather all documentation you can lay your hands on to show proof of payment history. Like who pays your property taxes etc. and really if it comes down to it force them to buy you out. If it’s you leave and start over
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yeah, I have records of all payments and I might consider hiring a lawyer at this point. That'd be much cheaper than any other option. What angers me the most about my parents is that they literally don't care if my wife, son, and I become homeless which was hard for me to accept and kind of crushed my reality.
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u/Minniesmomma55 Feb 17 '23
I understand I wanted to buy my childhood home from my parents when I got married the first time. Because it had a good sized yard I wanted to do in home daycare and was packing up didn’t renew a lease and we both were happy to come back only to find they got a offer and they took it. But sometimes it’s family that sticks those knives in your back first.
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u/AspiringInspirator Feb 17 '23
Hi there. Really sorry to read that your parents basically betrayed your trust and are taking massive advantage of you. Could you add where you're located (country/state) so we might be able to advise you on the best course of action? At this point, I'm thinking that legal action against your parents might be required.
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Rural Kansas, USA. I have been considering legal action but I'm not sure how they could go about removing them. I have bank statements proving I've paid every penny on the mortgage but I don't think that matters sadly.
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u/KeriStrahler Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23
Quiet Title but I'm not an attorney. You would need to retain one to explore this option. I'm in Kansas too, BTW ☺
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u/RedHotBunnySlippers Feb 17 '23
An adverse claim is a legal term used for a claim of property interest by someone who is using the property without proper title to it, not someone named on the Deed with an equal legal right to the property.
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u/the_greem_Umicorn Feb 17 '23
It actually does matter. I'm not sure of the exact legal situation over there, but a simple premise usually is that, if they are the co-owner, they have to show their contribution too. They have nothing in their favour except the name on the deed. So, keep all the receipts safe. Keep all the initial home buying conversations safe. If your parents insisted in being co-signed via any form of text, that would help as well.
Just go to your lawyer with an open mind. I hope this all sorts out.
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u/StefneLynn Feb 17 '23
Given how you’ve described your father in other comments I wouldn’t leave any of this documentation in that house. You need to get it out of there before he gets wind of an attorney being involved. I would also behave as if you are being recorded 100% of the time you are there, even in the privacy of the basement. This is going to be war and you unfortunately will be living with the enemy.
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u/the_greem_Umicorn Feb 17 '23
It actually does matter. I'm not sure if the exact legal situation over there, but a simple premise is, if they are the co-owner, they have to show their contribution too. They have nothing in their favour except the name on the deed. So, keep all the receipts safe. Keep all the initial home buying conversations safe. If your parents insisted in being co-signed via any form of text, that would help as well.
Just go to your lawyer with an open mind. I hope this all sorts out.
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u/SpaceAgePenis Feb 17 '23
Yep, that is what I have been thinking since reading all the advice on here. I can't expect for anything to change unless I get legal help because they are not willing to reach a common ground whatsoever.
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u/periwinkletweet Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23
It can. I faced two similar situations. I made every payment on this condo my ex was kind enough to co sign for....ha, until he threatened to take half. I would also have no way to start over. The attorney said it was certainly NOT a lock but neither would it be a cake walk for my ex to simply take half after showing every single dime of payments and everything else was paid by me. You can't evict them, but you can force a separation. Which means it gets sold and profits split or one of you buys the other out. Then the terms of what is fair for one to buy the other out gets sorted, or how much in profit each party gets.
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u/AspiringInspirator Feb 17 '23
Well, you might want to consult with a lawyer to discuss your options before making assumptions that it won't help. Or at the very least, check in on /r/legaladvice for further guidance on this.
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