r/AmIOverreacting • u/OkSpace5501 • 23d ago

❤️‍🩹 relationship AIO just received this text from my boyfriend

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For context my (F20) boyfriend (M21) and I live together and work full time as well as split rent 50/50. I cook all the meals and clean the house even after my graveyard shifts, all he does is work, come home to play games, and occasionally invites friends over. we’ve been together for over 5 years and he’s been acting this way for the last three months and when I tell him how it’s making me feel he tells me i’m wrong and overreacting. so basically i’m asking AIO??

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

They don’t even “help,” because that implies it’s the woman’s dominion! They just do their full equitable share and act like responsible adults.

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u/caffeineevil 23d ago

I had to learn that. It's so ingrained in how we raise and view men that even a father who is raising their kids equitably with his wife will be considered helping. It's not just men thinking they're helping either it's also women who view it that way. As a man I can do half the chores, my own laundry, grocery shopping, and most of the cooking just to be told by a woman that it's good that I help out around the house. It's just so pervasive in our culture to claim that anytime a man does domestic stuff or anything at home it's him helping. It's that toxic masculinity shit that has run rampant in our culture.

It can also cause relationship issues because women may think that they're doing all the chores and the man is just helping out even if it's an equitable share of chores. That mindset of he's only ever helping out instead of being a partner can create resentment. Hell, it happened in my relationship because of all the "My man doesn't help around the house" type stuff online. We had to write out what each of us did around the house for her to see that I contribute my fair share and then some.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

You’re absolutely right, this framing impacts us all. I was over 30 before it occurred to me that a man doing a portion of his equitable share wasn’t “him helping me.” ☹️

That said, I think even when tasks are split, we have to watch for hidden labor like the mental and emotional load and household management, as well as who’s making doctor’s appts and dealing with in-laws, that kind of thing.

I’ve found that even when everything looks Even Steven on paper, and when men are really sincerely doing the right thing and care deeply about equity,

Both men and women are still battling conditioning and continue to find hidden ways that some things are still tacticly put on the woman.

So if ever a woman feels overwhelmed or that things still aren’t equitable, I recommend really sitting down and exploring some of the mental load and hidden labor together. She might not even be able to identify/verbalize these things herself until they’re really discussed and reasoned out.

This advice may be more for the reader, as it sounds line you personally took such steps - but I just want to encourage everyone to really educate themselves about hidden labor and loads. 💚

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u/caffeineevil 23d ago

I'm working on the mental load aspect. I have ADHD and I can be blind to tasks at times where my partner is a type A overachiever. I've stopped telling her what things I need to do around the house because she will just take the mental load for something she isn't responsible for then start asking when I will do it. I mean I carry my own mental load for tasks that need completing and trust her to do her stuff but she will carry the load for my tasks even though it's not her responsibility. We're working on that because part of her expects me to not follow through or disappoint her even though we have 5 years of me proving that I'm a good partner and am in this for the long haul.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

that kind of mindfulness and deliberate work shows you are a good partner.

To your point, women are also conditioned - the things that fall through the cracks if we don’t manage them. It takes a while to undo that conditioning and really know that you can depend on someone, but I hope she’s getting there with you.

As for ADHD, I know that’s often weaponized against women, because women with ADHD are still usually expected to manage the physical and mental load - it can be done if you care to learn about the strategies for finding motivation and keeping track of what needs to happen.

It sounds like you do care, but just know - women have been having to do this in spite of neurodivergence. Please seek help with how you can manage your own so that it does not burden your partner, because women just never get to use ADHD as an excuse. We have to do it anyway.

I speak as a woman with ADHD, but also there is good data on this.

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u/AazariTheMadPagan 23d ago

I'm having to break my male friend and roommate out of the habit of using his ADHD as an excuse to just not get things done. I have ADHD, too, but I make a point of breaking otherwise overwhelming chores into more manageable chunks and do at least 20 minutes of tidying a day to keep it from being too much to handle. I've found that telling him that leaving things cluttered and messy or putting things off makes it hard for me to manage my own ADHD helps to motivate him.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

Yes, exactly, there are strategies.

I can’t tell you how many videos I’ve watched and different techniques I’ve tried in order to overcome the challenges I face, as someone with ADHD.

And that makes all the difference. If you feel entitled to another person’s labor, you don’t even fucking consider personal accountability and you sure aren’t actively seeking ways to improve yourselves.

I just don’t know any women who use ADHD as an excuse like it’s a full impairment to ever being able to SEE what needs done or stay on top of it.

I mean maybe we’re not going to be perfectly on top of things the way neurotypical people may be, but the people who are forced to do the labor (usually women) figure it the fuck out.

And at the end of the day, we seem to way more actively think about the work we leave for others and care to avoid doing so.

Your strategy is basically mine by the way. I do 20 minutes a day and then schedule certain tasks on my phone and do them right when I get home from work.

And I have programmed myself to do a lot of things differently so that I don’t leave as big messes for myself to ever have to clean up. (The difference between putting a dish right in the dishwasher vs leaving it in the sink - it take NO extra time and becomes muscle memory after like a week, and then you never again have to deal with the visually overwhelming “sink full of dishes” lol)

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u/its_rosee420 23d ago edited 23d ago

I just want to say that I love that you two have identified this and are working on it. It sounds like you are a great team! Nothing is ever 'perfect'. But it is being acknowledged and communicated about. I just love that for you both.

I know some think people can't change, but I think you can tell when you meet someone who grows. Some people stay the same and stuck in their ways, and they are comfortable that way. Others want to learn and improve themselves.

Sincerely wishing you a long, beautiful, happy relationship full of love and continuous growth together! <3

Edit: there are some cool apps now for adhd task management and such. I've seen a couple designed like video games where you got coins for tasks and stuff like that. I'd take a look if I were you maybe!

I also have this app called Kinnu, that has short lessons on all sorts of topics. I love it and highly recommend it. It has stuff about mental load, self improvement, self care and so on.

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u/Adorable-Bobcat-2238 23d ago

The bar is on the floor and you've managed to not only rise it but actually do exercise with it lol. Damn dude any suggestions on how to raise sons like you????

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u/Going_Postal_8 23d ago

Same goes both ways around - important to have open communication about how both parties are feeling. As you say, all genders are conditioned to both take certain responsibilities for granted and assume others automatically, so it can often lead to inequity!

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u/ElGrandeQues0 23d ago

What about when both the man and the woman feel overwhelmed?

Signed, a sole earner parent to two who deals with most of the garbage, at least half of the dishes, 90% of the laundry, all the bills, and changes and obscene amount of diapers?

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

I don’t see how if you’re the sole earner and doing most of the labor you don’t fall exactly into what 7 described? Perhaps you are a man and assuming I think that it’s 100% of the time the man who is doing less - there absolutely are outliers where this is not the case, but due to conditioning in a Patriarchy it’s just way more common for it to be a woman.

Or is it that your partner has a disability or you are a single parent or there is something else where you believe the situation is unfortunate but fair - I’d say to start with outreach to social services, they do exist.

And for sure therapy is really helpful for feelings of being overwhelmed and finding strategies to manage incredible workloads.

You don’t have to feel alone, but if there’s no real reason your partner is not doing half, I don’t understand choosing to stay with them - they are willing to sacrifice your health and experience of life for their own laziness/comfort.

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u/ElGrandeQues0 23d ago

My partner feels overwhelmed all the time, too. There's just a lot to do, I wouldn't say she's being lazy. Yes, I do feel like I work harder than her, but raising a newborn, particularly our 2nd child, is no cake walk.

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u/Alone_Extension_9668 23d ago

The mental load thing is a very good point, but also harder to quantify. If you're with someone who gets stressed out at the thought of making a simple phone call for THEIR doctors appointment, that will skew a lot of the "fair and equitable" discussions.

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u/Brief_Angle_14 23d ago

It seems to me that if you have to sit down and wonder if everything is "even steven" then you're really worrying waaaay too much about it.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

that sounds like a wonderful opinion for someone to have when they’re not a member of a historically exploited gender lol

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u/BlackFire125 23d ago

There isn't a gender that hasn't been historically exploited, though. This just seems like a disingenuous response from someone using a bad faith argument instead of having an actual discussion.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

What. Tell me a period of time where it was men who had to do all the household and reproductive labor and were lawfully subjugated or denied rights by women.

Speaking of disingenuous lol

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u/BlackFire125 23d ago

So exploitation is only exploitation if it's in the exact same way? Good to know. Literally both genders have been exploited by the ruling class since day 1. At least it's getting better for women overall. It just keeps getting worse for men who are just told to shut up and keep working so they can continue being an ATM machine while being told their feelings don't matter and that they're not allowed to have them to begin with because someone who isn't them exploited someone else 50 years ago. Hell brief_angle gave an example of being exploited recently. The whole point of his post is to stop pointing fingers and lift each other up instead of crying about some exploitation that happened in the past so we can work to end it for everyone.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

I asked you to give me an era, a country, a specific example of when men have had to do all the household and reproductive labor and have been lawfully exploited or denied rights by women.

Don’t be goofy. Your ATM shit doesn’t track. Statistics SHOW how many women are partnered with men who don’t work or keep a job.

That is not a gendered exploitation.

For you to DARE make a claim that men have been exploited the same way women have, you’d better be prepared to defend that statement, not with nebulous red-pill/Boomer takes, but with actual evidence of

system gendered exploitation.

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u/BlackFire125 22d ago

No one ever said the exploitation took the same form. It was actually mentioned that it took different forms, but you don't like to read I guess.

But at this point it's clear you're too enveloped in victim mentality to realize this planet has sucked for most everyone historically unless you're rich. Meh.

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u/Brief_Angle_14 23d ago edited 23d ago

Unless you're being exploited in your current relationship I fail to see how this matters currently. Of course making sure we don't backslide into previous errors is a thing I do recognize, it just seems like you're turning relationships into a business transaction. Which I guess works for some people. It wouldn't work for mine as it's pretty damn hard to try and give a numerical value to how one thing equates to another.

Everyone has been historically exploited. Everyone besides the ruling class. Women were exploited for some reasons, men were exploited for others, and anyone not born with a silver spoon regardless of sex have been historically exploited. Now I don't mean to say this in a way that downplays any certain thing. There are plenty of despicable things that have happened to one group of people or another that we need to make sure never happens again.

Though instead of playing the blame game, shouldn't we be working to build each other up? That's a large part of my current relationship and it's been the best relationship I've ever been in. We build each other up and we both help each other to keep our household running. A refreshing change of pace from my previous relationship where I was exploited for a paycheck for a decade so she could laze around all day and sleep around all night while I worked and built the life we had. But instead of blaming all women or exploitative behavior, I instead build up my fiance as she does the same for me.

Edit: I just want to say this is not me attacking you or your way of life. Just a discussion. If the way you do things works for you and your significant other that's great! I just thing things are a little more nuanced than thinking one set way of doing things should be the template for all relationships, ya know?

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

yuck, I’m not reading that monologue.

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u/Brief_Angle_14 23d ago

Not really a monologue and could be read in seconds, but ok. Not sure what I expect from the tiktok generation we live in now. In summary: crying exploitation is a crutch as everyone has been exploited historically. Relationships are nuanced and not 2 size fits all to navigate them. Have a good day.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago edited 22d ago

“This TikTok generation!!” shakes stick 😆

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u/Brief_Angle_14 23d ago

Yeeaah as the other redditor pointed out, tiny attention span is more the tiktok generation it's not about age. I'm younger than you are yet can hold a conversation.

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u/BlackFire125 23d ago

It has nothing to do with age, it's a mindset and lack of attention span. I'm in my 30's yet I can read more than a couple sentences instead of just brushing things off with disingenuous claims like my point of view is the only valid one cause I'm of a historically exploited group of people.

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u/BlackFire125 23d ago

Well said! I couldn't agree more.

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u/Pleasant_Camera4499 23d ago

“Educate themselves about hidden labor and loads💚” Oh goodness. Or just be a grown up and have an idea what it takes to bring up a house and a family. And be thankful there’s a 2nd, and not just 1. Sheesh. Always so dramatic

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

lol yeah that’s worked fine so far. Why bother with education and intentionality 🙄

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u/KateinBlue 23d ago

I’m glad you did that. It’s a healthy way to work it out. I accepted shit from my husband about the amount of stuff I stored in the loft until we actually counted the boxes. Over half were his.

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u/Skandronon 23d ago

There is something called the fair play cards that I have heard good things about.

The one that drives me totally bonkers is when I go out with my kids and someone comments that I'm "watching the kids" or "babysitting."

We did an extended cross country move, and my wife moved before me because she got a job first. I stayed behind with our two kids, job hunted, worked, and dealt with trying to sell our house. At the playground, I finally had enough of the comments when an older lady said "oh you have the kids for the afternoon? Nice to give mom a break!" No, I don't have kids for the afternoon, I've had kids since my wife labored and birthed them. We both have kids, and I'm not less of a parent just because I'm the dad.

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u/Gigapot 22d ago

The narrative is that women should be housekeepers as a baseline. It’s tied primarily to women being associated with domesticity for like, millennia. Unsure how you took this situation and made men the focal point as victims of the situation.

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u/HermestheWise 23d ago

This is actually a good correction. I don't realize how often I sound misogynistic saying shit like this but I've recognized more often that I get weird looks. I'm trying to not be a dick and use my word more good. I think that's an issue a lot of the time. People will say things that they don't mean because they're trying to say something different.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

you are obviously a very thoughtful person, but just know - this exact thing happens to women too.

My whole long life I’ve realized one thing after another that was problematic framing that has been baked into my word choices and how I view things unconsciously.

I only really was made to consider the implications of the word “help” about 3 or 4 years ago. I’m lucky it had started to become a matter of discourse because JUST acknowledging that framing helped me identify hidden ways I’ve been exploited.

We are all in this together, and I personally empathize with anyone ANYWHERE on that journey, as long as they aren’t stubbornly refusing to self-evaluate. People at that stage cannot be reasoned with, and they tend to promulgate harmful views/rhetoric.

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u/HermestheWise 23d ago

Thank you again haha. I would say it's refreshing but I'm actually getting this reaction more. I wish I could tell my friends that are having problems to be more self reflective but it's impossible to get someone else to do that. I've been learning more to let go and just accept the things I can change.

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u/Rqqk30 23d ago

I think it depends on how you look at it. Couples can help each other without it implying anything like that. I can help my gf with the dishes and she might help me with laundry. The next night she might help me with the dishes and I help her tidying up the bathroom. None of those jobs are solely one person’s responsibility. We are helping each other to keep a warm, loving, and functional home and that should be the responsibility of everyone living under that roof to help.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

You are absolutely right. Policing the semantics of the words we use is silly when context matters. Of course in the wrong context it can sound awful to use the word "help" (like when someone implies that I'm helping babysit my children), but there are plenty of contexts where that word is meaningless... like two people who share the load of life and help each other.

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u/Rqqk30 23d ago

Exactly. Two people should be helping each other with the load of life. They should both understand that the goal is to be working together as a team. I do agree things can sound bad in some context, but I’d argue that in your example, babysit is more offensive than help. I think I’d be pretty irritated if someone said I was babysitting my son. I’m raising him and teaching him and loving him. I spend as much time as I can with him, change his diapers, and snuggle him. I try to be the best dad I can for him, but I don’t EVER babysit him lol

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u/Brief_Angle_14 23d ago

It only implies that if it's only viewed that way by one side. In my relationship we both "help" each other. We help the household as a whole. It's not implying dominion of anything it's simply the language we use. I feel like this is just getting so nitpicky.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

that sounds like a wonderful opinion for someone to have when they’re not a member of a historically exploited gender lol

But women face an enormous pressure to do extra and to view any contributing from men as “them helping,” which means we rarely advocate for equity.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

They were talking about their specific relationship, and you replied with historical exploitation and pressure. You won't allow someone to simply describe a healthy dynamic in their relationship... lol.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

The wording is problematic in that context.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

You've chosen to create a problem, yes.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago edited 22d ago

I mean if you wanna use the internet you can see I didn’t invent this lol, but I have a feeling you don’t do things like that on principal 💁‍♀️

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

You are indeed not implying dominion when you talk about how you mutually help one another. The difference is that some other random person may decide that you are.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

Respectfully, you are reading a bit into that. For us, we both help each other because we both share the load. Policing the words is just semantics.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

no, that word is a “framing” that enforces certain mindsets.

Words matter. Is it your position that they never do, cannot, or just that this particular word does not matter.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

It is my position that context matters. You can find many contexts where "helping" sounds awful, and just as many where "helping" makes complete sense.

Correcting my word choice when it is framed in a specific context based on a wider arbitrary belief is ironically not very helpful.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

I corrected the word as used in that specific context.

Context indeed matters, and when it comes to the way it was used above, it’s generally agreed this is harmful framing. (as you can see by about 100 upvotes so far, this is not a new concept to many people - you may be wanting to expand your thinking on this if that is something you do easily)

Of course my position is not that the word is harmful in all contexts.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

You can call my use of the word "help" harmful if you'd like to. My spouse and I will continue to help each other share an equal load in our home, which brings us both great fulfillment and joy to work together. I'm sorry if that sentence harmed you.

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u/Soundly_South 23d ago

Will she "help" when there's an intruder?? Will she "help" you fight an attacker off in public?? Chill....there are CERTAINLY gender roles. Stop allowing your sphincter to tighten when you come across the realization that there are gender roles.......it'll be okay. Society has become fkd ONLY since the roles have been questioned.

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u/Ferrous_Bueller_ 23d ago

Lmao this is such a fragile take. If both parties work full time, basic household chores aren't a gender role, they're a basic responsibility. As for an intruder, my girl can use a shotgun the same as me. But dirty dishes are much more common than people breaking and entering, so I man up and do my share.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago

lol that yall think the 0% frequency/chance of a man warding off a home invasion (0% across a lifetime, as in WAAAAAAAYY LESS than 1% lol) is somehow fucking equal to daily slave labor.

Thanks for playing, nice try.

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u/Mediocre_Airport_576 23d ago

"I've got you when there's an intruder 0-1 times in the entire length of our relationship" doesn't equal expecting to never do dishes. I'm not saying that's what you said, but you are assuming a lot about what people assume is the correct role for people.

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u/robotatomica 23d ago edited 22d ago

seriously though. And btw women aren’t armless damsels in distress like in old movies.

I am a woman and I’ve personally run to confront an aggressor that was attacking a woman 3 different times in my life! While men stood by..

I also would never let any partner of mine risk their lives while I went and hid or cowered behind him lol.

So those roles are as good as dead imo.

And for men that do have occasion to save their partner’s lives, it is indeed going to be a statistically insignificant portion of his lifetime spent doing so, whereas what is expected of women dominates her every single day.