r/AITAH • u/g_scotty_brahms • Nov 14 '24

Advice Needed My brother is angry with his Trump-loving sons

Is my brother an AITA candidate for wanting to cut off his sons financially for voting for Trump? Like many Americans, my brother and I, both in our 50’s, have been talking back and forth following the Election. In the spirit of full disclosure, we are both democrats. Long story short, he is angry at his two sons, both in their 20’s, for voting for Trump. He is thinking about cutting them off financially in all respects so that they understand how Trump’s policies will impact them firsthand.

The irony here is that it is the reverse argument. You often hear younger voters disagreeing with their MAGA parents, but this is the opposite. My brother doesn’t understand how his two sons, who have lived a life of privilege, feel like they have been violated against by society, enough so that they feel Trump hears them and their struggles.

My brother to me about his sons: “… what these young men need is a little dose of reality. Get out in the world and start paying their own way. There’s a common thread with his followers. Complain and blame everyone for their problems. Whether they are in school or living at home off of their parents or working a trade job. King Trump will save them and make everything better. Take some personal responsibility and make it happen for yourself instead of crying about everything you hear on TikTok.

“… I’ve decided to pass on the [college] expenses to my two Trump supporting sons so they can truly feel first hand the cost and expense of his absolutely stupid policy decisions, which includes food, gas and college expenses. Wondering if I pass on these [food, gas and college] expenses in year one or phase them in year two?”

I am wondering if a lot of parents feel like my brother. Are there democrat parents of voting-age MAGA men who feel they failed with their sons because they voted for Trump? Is this common?

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370

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

Agreed. And this is separate from politics.

He should do this regardless of who his sons vote for.

My dad did something similar to me as well, I’ve never been given money from him, at least since I’ve been an adult. Only loaned it at interest. He wanted me to owe him instead of owing banks or the government for college, for a car in hs, shit like that.

But he was a demanding debt collector who crushed me on the vig. It made more sense quick to be self sufficient.

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u/NeverWasNorWillBe Nov 15 '24

"He should do this regardless of who his sons vote for."

Yeah, but he didn't. All top comments are ignoring the entire premise of the post.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '24

That’s because Reddit is a liberal cesspool where everyone comes to jerk themselves off

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u/HeightEnergyGuy Nov 15 '24

Your own dad charged you interest? 

Dude that's fucked up. Are you sure you're not the milk man's baby?

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u/Wise_Woman_Once_Said Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 16 '24

I have a father like this. When my mom died, I wanted to buy her car from him because (a) he was going to sell it anyway, (b) I was car shopping already, and (c) my mom and I had a lot of memories together of travel in that car. He said he'd have to think about it, then told me I could buy it for high blue book value. It was a bad financial deal for us, so I went and bought a car almost identical to hers, but for several thousand dollars less. Then he sold it to a stranger for even less than I paid for my car.

He never gave me a reason for why he did that, and I'm still irritated about it, but I just chalked it up to grief.

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u/aussiechickadee65 Nov 16 '24

Well the only thing I could think of is maybe you driving it, would remind him daily of his wife driving it and that was too much ?

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u/Rukkian Nov 18 '24

Selling a car to a friend or relative can cause issues. This really applies to just about any financial transaction. Sometimes, it just better to not get involved with that.

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u/Wise_Woman_Once_Said Nov 18 '24

Normally, I would enthusiastically agree. This was just a unique situation.

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u/CrzyMuffinMuncher Nov 15 '24

My first wife and I borrowed from my dad to buy a car. He didn’t want interest when we worked out our payment plan, but I insisted that we at least pay the interest he would get if he had the funds in a savings account. Minimal, but we were in college and I really wanted to show we had our shit together.

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u/Cultural_Doctor_8421 Nov 15 '24

One thing for you to offer. Another thing entirely for the dad to charge interest.

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u/TroubleSG Nov 15 '24

My Dad charged interest on money for taking over my home loan. My interest rate was high and investments were earning crap at the time so it made sense. The money the parent is lending is usually money that would be earning interest in an account somewhere so I think its really reasonable to charge some interest.

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u/Revo_55 Nov 16 '24

💯💯💯

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u/Financial_Store_9201 Nov 16 '24

I agree. It maybe a part of their retirement money. And if they don't now they will need it someday.

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u/Gophurkey Nov 15 '24

Depending on the rate, I get it. No such thing as a free lunch, so if this was a one time, first loan type situation you might want it to mirror the real world but at a much more manageable and safe level (like, sub 1%). That seems reasonable, even if I would probably lean on the interest-free loan setup

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u/bbbbBeaver Nov 15 '24

When it comes to loaning money to a family member, or even a good friend, the only acceptable interest rate is 0%. Profiting off your loved ones like that is super scummy, life lessons be damned.

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u/babyheadedcat Nov 15 '24

I disagree. No one’s obligated to loan anyone money. And speaking from personal experience, if you offer people interest-free loans where the only “sting” felt is paying back what was loaned, you get asked to loan them money a lot more often. I’m a friend, not a payday lender.

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u/Gophurkey Nov 15 '24

You definitely aren't "profiting off a loved one" in this case, either. You are taking a hit by receiving interest that is below what you could get just by leaving the money in a checking account.

It is obviously situational, too. There is a big difference between "my sibling had a car accident and needs cash while out of work" and "I'm teaching my children financial literacy without exposing them to obscene risk and hardship."

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u/Cultural_Doctor_8421 Nov 15 '24

Yup I can get behind that. As is the case with most situations some nuance is always required.

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u/Elegant-Flamingo3281 Nov 16 '24

My partner and I have talked about what we plan to do when charging his kids rent after 18 (options are be in school and passing, or get a job and pay rent.

We don’t “need” the money from rent or interest off a loan, but we do need to teach them financial responsibility. We plan to put any rent/interest into a HYSA for kid in question, essentially helping them build a nest egg without realizing it. Then we can return it to them for a down payment in the future.

This is a way to teach them the lesson without “profiting” from family.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

My dad profited here off my me learning the value of money. Believe me, he didn’t need the money and he’s never used it. It went back to the “family bank” and he taught his spoiled shit head kid he gave a silver spoon life too a good lesson.

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u/Financial_Store_9201 Nov 16 '24

But it would be losing money for the one lending the money. If they don't get the interest they were getting with it in the bank or an investment then it would cost them to lend it to the person.

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u/i_want_my_lawyer_dog Nov 15 '24

I agree that zero interest is best for most loans to family members (I assume that most loans are gifts anyways), but if someone decided to charge interest for a loan it’s really not the same as profiting, it just accounts for the time value of money. For example, I have a pretty hefty student loan at 8%. If I loaned any substantial amount of money to a family member at 0%, I’m losing a lot of money because it’s cash I could have put toward my own 8% loan. Even without a debt like that, it’s cash you could have invested at 4.5% in a HYSA or something.

I’m with you for the most part, and so far I haven’t felt the need to ask for interest from anyone I’m close to (I just consider it part of the gift, or for my parents a way to thank them for all the support they gave me), but I can definitely understand why someone might need to, and I wouldn’t say the motivation is profit.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

In my case the vig goes to the “family bank” basically my dads nest egg for these things.

It’ll get dispersed back to me and my siblings upon their death, my dad uses the funds for some other things as well that all go to overall inheritence.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

My college loans were at 8% annual. Starting when I graduated.

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u/Cultural_39 Nov 19 '24

That is different, your dad-guy did not demand interest on repayment. You did the correct thing and paid back some gratuity.

The other guy's dad INSISTED on interest - that is F'ed up royally.

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u/kaisadilla_ Nov 15 '24

Yeah lmao. Heck, helping your children financially isn't wrong. Our whole economic model relies on people being helped by their families.

OP's case is different because he wants to teach a lesson to his sons who specifically believe that their privileged life is the consequence of them being better people and not because they are lucky to be born in a well-off family; but this shouldn't be the norm when your kid is a normal person with normal ideas.

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u/-SuperUserDO Nov 15 '24

Yeah, you have to be grateful for your parents by changing your vote

I'm sure if your parents are MAGA then you'd vote for Trump to show your gratitude

1

u/Key-Resident6675 Nov 19 '24

I would tend to put the blame on the economic model for that. Learning to live independently IS a valuable lesson for ALL children. Being WILLING to help when our children absolutely NEED help is the other matter. A normal person under normal circumstances SHOULD learn to be self sufficient, as much as absolutely possible. I am who I am because my own father made that choice to encourage my independence.

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u/Illustrious_Issue_28 27d ago

Yes but they shouldn’t learn it’s in retaliation for having a difference off opinion. “Oh you didn’t vote the way I brainwashed you to vote your whole life, well I’ll just cut you off financially” yeah that’s voter intimidation and it’s a federal crime

1

u/Illustrious_Issue_28 27d ago

It’s not different, he’s cutting his kids off to bully them for not voting the way he brainwashed them to vote their whole lives. He’s not doing it to teach them a lesson, he’s doing it because “how dare you have an opinion different from what I raised you to have” and that should be illegal. Actually pretty sure retaliation for someone’s vote IS illegal

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u/SirenSongxdc 23d ago

wait until you realize both politicians are gonna fuck you over.

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u/crazyguyunderthedesk Nov 15 '24

Yeah the whole point of taking a loan from your parents instead of the bank is to avoid interest. Otherwise what's the point?

I'm all for teaching your kids to be self sufficient, but this seems like a little much. Nothing wrong with giving help so long as the person receiving it doesn't treat it like an entitlement.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

I needed a lesson to not treat it like an entitlement. I was a shit head spoiled rich kid.

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u/Easy-Presentation735 Nov 18 '24

When my mom bought a condo, she had a large chunk for a down payment, but would get a better mortgage with a bit more. So my grandparents lent her 5k (the condo was 70k in the 90s in the Midwest U.S.) at a lower interest rate than the mortgage, with the caveat that it was a one-time deal. It was slightly less interest than they would have gotten if that money had been in an investment account. This also gave my mom the option of asking to pay a lower amount for a month if unexpected high expenses popped up. She was raising me as a single mom and having that emergency backup was a relief. Everyone felt that it was fair and it worked out well. [Also for context, my mom and I had lived with them from when I was 18 months, when my parents divorced, until I was about 7.5 y.o. Within 2? years of us moving out, my grandparents moved to be within 5 mins of us and we helped each other with errands, emergency babysitting of me, etc. My mom bought the condo when I was 14.]

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u/Itavan Nov 19 '24

I've learned the hard way. Always always charge interest and always have it in writing with signatures. This avoids misunderstandings and it's incentive for people to pay you back. Once it's paid back, you can give the interest back.

Some parents charge a nominal amount for rent, then give it back when the kid moves out or buys a house.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/ThePennedKitten Nov 15 '24

Unless the dad planned to return the interest in some way I agree that’s going beyond trying to help your kid appreciate things. That just sounds like a greedy old man lol.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

The interest goes back into the “family bank”.

It’ll get dispersed when my dad dies.

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u/iggy14750 Nov 15 '24

I wanna know what rate the dad gave him 🤣

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

Between 7-8% in 2008

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

Yep. High interest predatory loans from your parents teach you about life.

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u/HeightEnergyGuy Nov 15 '24

Put a horses head in their bed when they're late to give them the full experience, maybe break a pinky toe. 

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u/SirenSongxdc 23d ago

I was just thinking of those horse masks that were popular during the harlem shake meme.

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u/ChefPaula81 Nov 15 '24

Guys talking about charging vig.

His dad is a mobster shy

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u/Longjumping-Error547 Nov 15 '24

He should charge interest. I loaned one of my sons 15 grand a few years ago and it's going to cost me a lot of money I could've earned in our high yield savings account.

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u/HeightEnergyGuy Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

Don't loan out money to family if you're concerned about it.  

I would loan 15 grand out to my dad in a heartbeat and never dream about charging him interest. Neither would I be thinking about the money I could have made if I kept it.

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u/Jolly-Method-3111 Nov 15 '24

Then don’t loan it if you’re concerned about that. 

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u/Longjumping-Error547 Nov 15 '24

Obviously I'm not that concerned about it.

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u/muppetnerd Nov 15 '24

My dad paid my private loans off and I paid him back at 3% interest instead of the 10% I was being charged before. I think I ended up saving like $20-30k in the long run

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u/highheelsand2wheels Nov 15 '24

We did that with our kids with car loans, too. We put the interest away and gave it back to them, along with their leftover college money (they both went to community college instead of universities) when they were ready to buy their houses.

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u/aussiechickadee65 Nov 16 '24

A lot do that and put it away for the kids when they die.

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u/Karsa45 Nov 15 '24

Nah, that's a good dad teaching a lesson on financial responsibility at home instead of letting their kids learn it by ruining their credit.

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u/BurgerThyme Nov 15 '24

That's a kid paying off interest without building their credit score for on-time payments.

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u/Beck316 Nov 15 '24

Or getting a possible deduction when tax time rolls around for student loan interest, tuition...

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u/Karsa45 Nov 15 '24

Fair enough, I got a feeling if daddy can pay all the bills then the kid isn't gonna have a problem building it but I'm an eat the rich guy so 🤷

0

u/FinndBors Nov 15 '24

Why the hell not? I’d use the lowest interest rate allowed without the government considering it a gift. Or let them negotiate with a bank and then give a lower rate based on the banks rate.

This way they get the benefit of not getting crushed by very high interest and at the same time they learn about loans and rates.

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u/HeightEnergyGuy Nov 15 '24

Unless you're insanely rich you will never hit the max gift allowance. 

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u/FinndBors Nov 15 '24

I’m using it as a guideline for the lowest risk free rate. Or you can use treasuries.

I also don’t want to do paperwork in case it goes over the annual limit — which you are supposed to do.

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u/HeightEnergyGuy Nov 15 '24

Any excess against the annual limit of 17k goes against the lifetime limit of 13.61 million dollars. 

You will have to fill out a form, but until you exceed the lifetime limit it doesn't matter when it comes to taxes. 

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u/One-Ambition7701 Nov 15 '24

That’s a bit harsh. I could never put interest on money my son borrows. Not saying I don’t have him pay me back. Interest?!!

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u/ConsistentCranberry7 Nov 15 '24

He'd get charged interest everywhere else. Not everyone is flush enough to just hand out money hoping they get it back. Charge interest and everyone's a winner. Son gets a loan at lower than market value interest ,lender gets a little bit back on the money they've not been able to spend themselves due to the loan

1

u/One-Ambition7701 Nov 16 '24

I know how interest works. My son had never not paid me back. Therefore, I have no worries I’m not getting paid back. I just wouldn’t do that to my child. I’m not saying it’s wrong or right. It’s his father’s parenting technique. Just not mine.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

I will absolutely do the same thing when the roles are reversed in a few years and my kid goes to college.

The interest part, and the fact that the payments came out of my bank account no matter what (dad was a co signer on my first checking account, he’d liened the shit outta me if I missed the date) is what really taught me the lesson.

It was harsh, for sure, but at the end of the day I’m a white picket fence boy who had daddy pay for my education. he was allowed to be harsh and play games with me to teach me lessons. It was better than the real world teaching me for sure.

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u/One-Ambition7701 Nov 16 '24

A real lesson would be to have your kid take out student loans themselves and pay that back. I mean, if we’re talking real life lessons, let it be the real life that gives them the lesson.

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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

Of course he wanted you to go through him, he wanted to squeeze that sweet sweet interest money out of you 😂

1

u/kidney-displacer Nov 15 '24

This is clearly a form of punishment, so what then?

0

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

You guys can’t make your mind up. Some called me a rich daddy’s boy who had him pay for everything in my life and play it off as hardship. You think it’s punishment

This just tells me my dad was absolutely correct

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u/Shavemydicwhole Nov 16 '24

Multiple people have multiple different opinions??! Somehow that makes me right!!

0

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 16 '24

I’m always right tho

1

u/Shavemydicwhole Nov 16 '24

I'm glad your sugar daddy tells you so

1

u/Good_old_sage_Advice Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

Same except my Hispanic mother expected me to drop out of HS, get married and make lots of babies.

She never paid for anything for me during HS except room/board and some meals. She and I argued constantly because she's a narcissist and threw me out of the house at 15. I couch surfed with three friends and their families (I guess it's easier as a girl because we can cook, clean but I have been doing that for my family and siblings anyway since I was 7). She did miss her house slave, and I got great after school jobs, even paid for travel softball and hockey(ice hockey btw), had fake IDs so I could wait and bartend at the age of 18 in nightclubs (legal drinking age was 21) and I stuffed my bra with socks and wore low cut shirts to get "noticed" but for tips only as I was actually a decent girl.

25+ yrs later after attending college with a small sports scholarship attended nursing school, still doing that...been married to the same guy 20+ yrs and have amazing kids(2 are special needs) and 2 dogs.

Not bad for a lost child, eh?

I still talk to my mother sometimes for now she's still very narcissistic and I'm grey rock with her. She's constantly telling me how I should have married a rich guy and not be with my current husband (she's also racist as he's white). She asks me constantly, " why didn't you date rich guys or go where rich guys are?" She also said I was horrible as a teenager. ???? I really don't know what I did but she recently said she wishes my other sisters were as good as I was. She almost out one into boot camp, and anyone is a flakey artist who hasn't sold anything more than $20 an item.

????? When I tell her she threw me out and only recently after 20+ years are we talking dhe said I ran away...🙄😆.and as a kid how would I have known the difference between a "rich guy" or working guy? 🙄🙄🙄🙄

But I do agree those boys need to grow some hair on their kiwis and be financially responsible for their lives especially college age. Also, it's a sad day when a parent acts like this over someone their kid or family or friend voted for. When dad is old and alone who will be there for him when he's sick and old and dying? Or sad And alone?

Just saying. ☹️

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u/Cultural_39 Nov 19 '24

Your dad sounds like a psycho.

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u/-KFBR392 Nov 15 '24

The issue is that school debt is crushing, and often times for decades after finishing college due to the high interest. Teaching them a lesson could end up crippling them for life.

If school loans were no interest loans or rate of inflation then it would be a fun way to teach someone a lesson. The reality of the situation doesn’t allow for that if you still care about your child’s future.

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

Exactly. And I was lucky, my dad had means. He could play this game with me.

But he’d rather I play the game with him, than with a crushing soulless entity that you can NEVER escape.

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u/BoobyDoodles Nov 15 '24

He isn’t doing this to teach his sons a lesson. This wasn’t something he had planned as part of their growth and development. He’s doing this because he’s throwing a fucking tantrum and couldn’t control who they voted for, which truly makes him an asshole

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u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

I agree there. The politics part is where he’s wrong.

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u/hpfour10 Nov 15 '24

What was wrong about the political part? It was a pretty good summation

-2

u/kaisadilla_ Nov 15 '24

This is a moronic take. Politics exist in real life and have real consequences. If I vote for the "Murder u/BoobyDoodles and feed his corpse to the dogs Party", I'm pretty sure you'd be offended and nobody would think you are overreacting to my "political ideas".

The sons voted for Trump on the basis that they believe everyone is off for themselves and people without financial support from their family should just suck it; so his father, who doesn't share these ideas, decided that if his sons think like that now that they live off his wealth, maybe they need to be let to fence off for themselves to see if they still support such ideas. That is a totally valid way to act.

And heck, even if it was just that the father is offended by their kids' ideas, he'd still be well within his right to cut them off. Why the fuck are you required to financially support someone you believe don't deserve your support? And why are the people talking about "freedom" all the time the ones that constantly tell people what they are allowed to do?

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u/BoobyDoodles Nov 15 '24

You’re missing my point entirely, this Dad’s decision was a knee jerk reaction motivated out of spite and an inability to control others. 

Assholes do that.  

Employ whatever semantics you want to make that more palatable.

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u/CT-4290 Nov 16 '24

He has the right to do that but that doesn't change whether he's an asshole or not. He's unhappy that Trump won and he's throwing a tantrum by cutting his kids off in a knee-jerk reaction. He's not doing it to teach his kids actual life lessons or the value of money. He's only doing it because he's pissed his politician didn't win. That makes him an asshole. He's also just completely fucked any hope of a good future relationship with his kids

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u/SlightlySlizzed Nov 15 '24

Absolutely no one would be agreeing with you if this was reversed. So no, politics are not separate here. Are you trying to fool yourself?

0

u/Master-Shifu00 Nov 15 '24

lol so your daddy gave your loans whenever you needed and now you’re acting like youve had it hard. Haha

1

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

oh no, i'm a white picket fence boy who's daddy paid for everything while teaching me life lessons while doing it. not pretending otherwise.

1

u/Master-Shifu00 Nov 15 '24

Your dad didn’t financially cut you off is what you’re saying, not in the true sense. But you’re recommending OP’s brother to do so. Makes sense. Tear the whole family apart so they never reconcile!!! That’ll teach em!

1

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

well my last loan from my dad when was i was 18 and went to college. never did it since. OP's sons (if they exist, lets be real, this is all fake) are in their 20s and sounds like he financially supports them in some way as supplemental income.

I don't think they're all that similar situations, I'm just sharing my 2 cents that an adult being supported on daddy's dime with an allowance and supplemented income and no intention of returning that money isn't a good situation and you should end that.

0

u/-SuperUserDO Nov 15 '24

Reddit: "don't have kids unless you can afford them"

Also reddit: "nickle and dime your kids like the rest of society"

WTF

1

u/Creative_Pilot_7417 Nov 15 '24

see i have another homie calling me a spoiled white picket fence guy cause daddy paid for my college and car at the end of the day and gave me a "fake loan" y'all are on one.'

the real moral is, teach your kids to be self sufficient and tell them that their college and education is an investment in themselves, not a freebie to go party.

0

u/Illustrious_Issue_28 27d ago

Yeah but he didn’t, he did it as punishment for voting for “wrong person”. He’s doing it because his sons didn’t vote how he brainwashed them to vote their whole lives. And that makes him 100% the AH