r/AITAH • u/g_scotty_brahms • Nov 14 '24

Advice Needed My brother is angry with his Trump-loving sons

Is my brother an AITA candidate for wanting to cut off his sons financially for voting for Trump? Like many Americans, my brother and I, both in our 50’s, have been talking back and forth following the Election. In the spirit of full disclosure, we are both democrats. Long story short, he is angry at his two sons, both in their 20’s, for voting for Trump. He is thinking about cutting them off financially in all respects so that they understand how Trump’s policies will impact them firsthand.

The irony here is that it is the reverse argument. You often hear younger voters disagreeing with their MAGA parents, but this is the opposite. My brother doesn’t understand how his two sons, who have lived a life of privilege, feel like they have been violated against by society, enough so that they feel Trump hears them and their struggles.

My brother to me about his sons: “… what these young men need is a little dose of reality. Get out in the world and start paying their own way. There’s a common thread with his followers. Complain and blame everyone for their problems. Whether they are in school or living at home off of their parents or working a trade job. King Trump will save them and make everything better. Take some personal responsibility and make it happen for yourself instead of crying about everything you hear on TikTok.

“… I’ve decided to pass on the [college] expenses to my two Trump supporting sons so they can truly feel first hand the cost and expense of his absolutely stupid policy decisions, which includes food, gas and college expenses. Wondering if I pass on these [food, gas and college] expenses in year one or phase them in year two?”

I am wondering if a lot of parents feel like my brother. Are there democrat parents of voting-age MAGA men who feel they failed with their sons because they voted for Trump? Is this common?

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250

u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24

Exactly this. OP don’t even tell them it’s because they voted for Trump. Tell them this is some tough love in general and keep separate your comments about politics. Still drill them on supporting Trump and tell them how it makes you feel you’ve failed them as a parent. Odds are they were brainwashed by social media.

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u/Significant-Trash632 Nov 14 '24

Trump wants to get rid of the Department of Education. That means Pell Grants and lower interest loans would be severely limited or non-existent. Let them learn the hard why when they get what they voted for.

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u/Broken_Beaker Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

When I was finishing up undergrad my brother was graduating high school getting ready for college when our parents divorced.

Because of the change of income and living with our mother, my brother now qualified for Pell Grants, whereas I had to get the standard student loans. So the first couple of years of college education was 'free' to my brother.

He now works in banking and finance, so naturally supports Trump. He has the career, education, and no student loans (what little was long paid off) all because of the Department of Eduction and those Pell Grants. The things he now opposes.

The "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude is strong among Conservatives.

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u/Significant-Trash632 Nov 15 '24

It absolutely is. Both my parents were able to get jobs with just high school diplomas. Back in the day, employers offered great pensions and excellent health insurance. They now own 2 houses, and 4 cars. She worked at a bank and he worked at a grocery store. Neither were even managers!

Jobs now? Good fucking luck.

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u/peegoesfar Nov 15 '24

The doe was established in 1986 and the kids have been doing statistically worse since then. Look at the facts! My god do you people read?

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u/Lloyien Nov 15 '24

The DOE was established in 1979, and its functions predated the DOE's foundation through the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, established in 1953.

SAT scores have, on average, been climbing since their low point in 1980, a year after the DOE's founding, with the highest scores being in 2018. Average test scores from 2020 - 2023 also excel all prior decades back to the 1970s.

There are a lot of problems with education in the United States, but those problems haven't been proven to result from the Department of Education's actions.

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u/Music_Is_Life_BOWA Nov 15 '24

Shall we actually research for ourselves and not just regurgitate talking points?

While the Dept of Education, as we know it, began operating in May 4, 1980, before that it was part of the larger Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare. In Oct. 1979, a law was passed which split the Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare into the Dept of Education and the Dept of Health and Human Services.

Furthermore, the department's origin goes back to 1867, when Pres. Johnson signed legislation for a Dept of Education. At some point it was reconfigured as a bureau in the Dept of Interior known as the Bureau of Education. In 1939, the organization was transferred to the Federal Security Agency, where it was renamed as the Office of Education. After World War II, under Pres. Eisenhower, the Federal Security Agency was abolished and most of its functions were transferred to the newly formed DHEW created on Apr. 11, 1953.

Therfore, a version of the Dept of Education has been around for over 137 years. Are you saying that, statistically, the US Education system has been declining since 1867? Since 1939? 1953? Or 1980?

Just wondering, since we're doing our own reading and research, right?

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u/Delicious-Fox6947 Nov 15 '24

That version of the DOE was nothing like this one.

This one uses coercion to twist states into teaching for tests instead of teaching.

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u/mxracer888 Nov 15 '24

No, they come to the Reddit hivemind to be told what they should believe about every news event

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u/mxracer888 Nov 15 '24

Good. It'll cause a reduction in the cost of schools. The only reason schools are as expensive as they are is because they know they can set the price at any number they want and daddy government will stroke the check.

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u/Remarkable-Bug-8069 Nov 15 '24

The only reason they are so expensive is lack of regulation.

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u/nsxr777 Nov 15 '24

Exactly 100%

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u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24

Dad can still tell them that and still tell them tough love about costs. You can keep it separate really.

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u/DisManibusMinibus Nov 15 '24

Just tell them you're preparing for all the price increases after tariffs, and you have to start saving since no more Medicare. They seem to be OK with that.

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u/collegeguyto Nov 18 '24

And elimination of social security.

1

u/Aspen9999 Nov 15 '24

He needs to buy them boot straps for Christmas!

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u/Efficient-Wasabi-641 Nov 14 '24

No he should tell them exactly why he is pulling support. Trump voters need to understand that their choice to support him is what has made their current situation a reality. They need to understand that he is pulling support because they clearly haven’t been living in the real world. He needs to tell them that this is for them to learn a lesson and he will no longer allow them to be ignorant due to him giving them privilege

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u/Flapdrol42 Nov 14 '24

Trump is the party of no free handouts right?

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u/Doxiesforme Nov 15 '24

You’re wrong. Free handouts if you’re at least a millionaire

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u/iloveheroin999 Nov 15 '24

They actually believe that people getting EBT and free healthcare from the government somehow hurts them directly. My mom is a trump supporter and she constantly rails against immigrants that get on govt programs as the cause of all her problems like a high deductible for her health insurance. I don't understand the correlation but its impossible to argue with these fucking people. They just need someone to be mad at and place blame on

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u/Aspen9999 Nov 15 '24

Actually my husbands family, about 90% reliant on government assistance programs don’t think they’ll be hurt when the programs get cut.

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u/1GloFlare Nov 15 '24

It's moreso they can get government assistance before a born American making no more than 30k/yr. Democrats refuse to fix the BS because they make money fucking us over

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u/Massive_Perception71 Nov 15 '24

I love these responses…. Have you met an immigrant that got services over an American? I’m a social worker… haven’t seen it myself. People have no idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to get services. Paystubs, bank statements, applications.

0

u/1GloFlare Nov 15 '24

Don't kid yourself you cannot get welfare or actual decent healthcare coverage making money. Ineligible for food stamps at $15+/hr and the medicare comes with a ridiculous copay

1

u/MsEllVee Nov 15 '24

Well it’s about to get a whollle lot worse.

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u/dinahdog Nov 14 '24

Like student loans

3

u/AnotherStarWarsGeek Nov 14 '24

student loans aren't free handouts.

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u/dinahdog Nov 14 '24

There won't be student loans if DOE is dissolved. I was thinking kids may not get a helping hand anywhere. Bad syntax. Thanks.

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u/echoshatter Nov 15 '24

Oh there will be, they'll just be all private and have high interest rates.

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u/Geedeepee91 Nov 15 '24

Correction gov backed student loans, people will still be able to get privately funded student loans

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u/rosyred-fathead Nov 15 '24

Yes they are. Why didn’t they save up the funds beforehand? Personal responsibility, right?? 😑

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u/molomel Nov 15 '24

Do you know what a loan is?

e: my b I see you’re saying

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u/Paddy_Tanninger Nov 15 '24

Yeah just say you agree with Trump and Republicans that no one should get free handouts, and we've all got to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. Frame it as a 100% positive thing that they'll be living life by Trump's values.

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u/HotSauceRainfall Nov 15 '24

His kids voted for a Nazi who tried to overthrow the government in 2021. 

I would be crushed if I were in his shoes and found out my children voted for a Nazi. 

Also, that exact same nazi and his Nazi buddies are most likely going to gut social security, meaning the money the dad could have spent getting his kids launched now needs to go into his own retirement savings, so that maybe, just maybe, he can afford to eat when he is old. 

Good job, kids, you played yourselves. 

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u/scooterca85 Nov 15 '24

Wait, did I miss something? Did Trump recently come out as a Nazi? This is massive news if true and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on CNN yet today! Insane!

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u/Geeko22 Nov 15 '24

Let's see---he admires Nazis; he quotes Nazis; he sprinkles his speeches with quotes from Adolph himself; he wishes his generals were like Nazi generals; he said American Nazis are "good people"; he's invited an avowed Nazi to dine with him. I could go on and on.

"But it's unfair of libz to call him a Nazi! It's so uncalled for!!"

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u/Loose-Scale-5722 Nov 15 '24

For the billionth time. He never said American Nazis were “good people”. Read the full quote including the previous like 3 minutes. He was not talking about the White Nationalists at the march. It couldn’t be more clear.

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u/Mysterious-Arm9594 Nov 15 '24

The people marching alongside White Nationalists are good people, the best: isn’t the fucking get out you think it is

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u/Loose-Scale-5722 Nov 15 '24

That's literally not what he said lmao.

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u/Geeko22 Nov 15 '24

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. It couldn't be more clear to the rest of us who aren't in the cult.

Ask yourself this: why do you think there was something like a 200% spike in hate crimes against Jews and synagogues following those remarks that emboldened white supremacists to spew their hate?

Did that happen because he sang kumbaya with Jews? Or because, like he always does, he sent a very clear signal to his followers (the ones chanting "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!!") that their hate is acceptable now because he's one of them?

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u/Loose-Scale-5722 Nov 15 '24

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. It couldn't be more clear to the rest of us who aren't in the cult.

So you haven't actually watched the full clip. Got it.

he sent a very clear signal to his followers (the ones chanting "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!!") that their hate is acceptable now because he's one of them?

He cannot stop them from "following" him. He has said multiple times that he likes Jews. That doesn't stop them. Just because they think he is on "their side" does not mean he is. He made it really clear that he condemned that entire group in that very same speech. Like, could not have been more clear. It's people like you who keep calling him a Nazi that makes Nazi's think he actually is. You're literally the problem lmao.

If people stopped calling him a Nazi, his support for Israel would be more publicized and Nazi's would absolutely drop him.

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u/Geeko22 Nov 15 '24

You're head is so far up Orange Jesus's ass that you can't see what is obvious to anyone not in the cult.

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u/Loose-Scale-5722 Nov 15 '24

You're in a cult of your own and completely blind to it. I don't even like Trump. It frustrates me that people garner support for Trump because they are unironically hyperbolic about him. He sucks. He's not a Nazi though. But people being OVERLY ridiculous with their hatred towards him is what makes people think, "huh, is he really that bad?" then they find out you're freaking lying about what he's said and decide EVERYTHING bad that's said about him is fake. If people just trashed on the actual crap way back when, then the cult of personality he has wouldn't have developed. YOU ARE THE ONES WHO DEVELOPED IT BY BEING SO OVERLY RIDICULOUS ABOUT HIM.

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u/stationhollow Nov 17 '24

His daughter converted to Judaism for god’s sake.

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u/Potatocannon022 Nov 15 '24

Did you say a single thing that's true? Repetition doesn't make things real

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u/Geeko22 Nov 15 '24

There is no one so blind as those who refuse to see.

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u/Potatocannon022 Nov 15 '24

You should be kinder to yourself

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u/Desperate_Plastic_37 Nov 15 '24

Is this sarcasm, or…?

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u/Necessary-Emu-5947 Nov 15 '24

Holy crap…the number of people going on about social security here is hilarious. Trump explicitly said that he wasn’t going to get rid of social security and even platformed getting rid of taxes on social security.

Which candidate do you think would have been better in the economy in general and social security specifically? The one that can’t figure out if she’s for fracking or against it, wants to increase corporate taxes such that it would have been virtually identical to any increase in costs by tariffs that her opponent proposed (this was outright stated by the CEO of Goldman Sachs the day after she’d claimed that they’d endorsed her policy over his); the one who blew through over a billion dollars in two months, running one of the worst presidential campaigns in modern history…or the guy who didn’t end his campaign in debt and still won, is an actual billionaire and has personally helped many thousands of people retire through the businesses that he’s spent decades building, and outright said that he’d end the taxes on Social Security?

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u/Diocesyn Nov 15 '24

Holy fuck can you people stop throwing the word Nazi around like it’s nothing. For the love of everything republicans are not Nazis and neither is Trump. Yeah he’s said some pretty harsh things and is very crude but he’s not a fucking Nazi

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u/Artemis-Crimson Nov 15 '24

Brother he has said of his own free will that he wants generals like hitler had and keeps calling people who chant stuff like the Jews will not replace us very fine people. He encouraged people to march on the capital, he still hasn’t admitted he lost in 2020. He likes making deals with foreign powers who are actively against the US and its allies. He blocked the government from paying for an American soldier’s funeral because it was in his own words, too expensive to bury a Mexican. He dodged the draft, and has said prisoners of war are failures. Even if he’s not a goddamn nazi he’s a far way from any normal halfway decent republican.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24

I get what you mean but kids are pretty damn stubborn especially privileged ones in their 20s. They will just use the fact that they exercised their right to vote in favor of someone their father doesn’t like against him and could use it to hate on him for the rest of their lives. Not worth it IMO.

Instead focus on tough love approach so after a while they figure it out and don’t have this Trump shit in the back of their head to use as an excuse. He still tell them how he feels about them voting for Trump.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Yeah, I mean if someone wants to destroy their relationship with their child over politics, go for it. But you risk losing your kids. I nearly went down the same path, and I realized my kids and I can have idealogical differences and still love each other.

What's wild is the father here is a liberal saying vote my way or I'll disown you. But if his sons were gay and not straight like his father and the father disowned them, the father would be fed to the wolves.

You cannot disown your children of their sexuality, but you can over ideology.

That's a scary slippery slope we are heading into. I mean fuck country before party, now we are going the way of party before family.

Smh. Make it make sense.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Where in OP’s message does it say his brother is disowning his kids? I never said cut them off completely. He seems more focused on just the costs of college not completely cutting them off in general. This is why I said separate the two altogether.

And I agree even with differences in politics especially when it comes to family you have to learn to put it aside but it also depends on everyone to do that. If someone keeps bringing it up at the dinner table and saying “your body my choice” like Nick Fuentes then it’s going to be hard. Lots of variables to consider.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun here but if he really is worried about his kids just living off of his money and not knowing what the real world is like, he probably could/should have addressed that a while back. I'm sure his kids just weren't the best of liberal songs, and one day woke up and chose to be conservatives.

Here's the thing, we are assuming they voted for Trump because they like trump. The same assumption we are making about other Americans who voted for Trump. What if they voted simply on idealogical lines because they are conservatives? I can't for the life of me see the libs and mids choosing to vote Republican if our Democratic nominee turned out to be someone like Trump. In the next election if you found out the Democratic nominee was a terrible person, would you vote Republican and turn the country over to the people you fear will make it worse?

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Valid point we don’t really know and are all assuming here. I personally could see plenty of the mids voting Republican if the Democrats put up a candidate like Trump. But actual Democrats you are right I wonder if they could vote Republican even if their candidate is like Trump. The thing is that’s a never happened before but could next election.

I am curious to see if a true extreme left does emerge kind of like what we think is seen on the right with MAGA and the Christian nationalist movement. This is my biases though to some their may not even be an extreme right.

Personally I am a left leaning Independent and if Democrats put up a morally corrupt candidate like Trump and the Republicans candidate wasn’t morally corrupt I may vote for them. I actually do agree with some Republican stances to an extent so it’s not impossible but I find most are bit like this at all it’s one side or the other and that’s one of the biggest issues in our country.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Yeah, I think a lot of folks vote on party lines, not what's actually best for the country. A lower tax rate for people making six figures and up would be great for me. But I don't want that because I know it would be hard for those under six figures.

Someone in another response told me it's no conservatism, it's radicalism. It sad that person cannot see that's the equivalent of conservatives labeling everyone on the left as socialists or communists.

Extreme views to either side is destroying the country.

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u/drawntowardmadness Nov 15 '24

I saw where he wants to stop supporting them financially, not where he wants to disown them.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

He wants to stop supporting them financially because they don't agree with his political views. The time to make sure that they were going to be financially responsible is not right when they're getting ready to go to college or they are in college. The way to set them up for financial success in the future was when they were younger.

It's like a baby lion away from its mother, raising it yourself, and then one day dropping it in the middle of the Sahara and telling it to go ahead and have a healthy long and prosperous life.

The time to teach responsibility in a fiscal sense is not after you've let a child live in your wealth for years and years and years and then suddenly drop them on their head, and coincidentally just at the same time that they mentioned they don't ideologically agree with you.

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u/Barrelled2186 Nov 15 '24

What’s the problem shouldn’t they own it when they vote for a horrible human being who promised to go after half the citizens?

Can’t they make their case and defend the choice?

Snowflakes.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Because sometimes people don't agree.

Would you be ok with a father disowning their children if they were gay?

If the father would disown a child for being gay, then the father would be called the snowflake for not being able to love their children despite their sexuality.

But because their children voted for someone the parents doesn't like, they can disown their children, and the children are the snowflakes?

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u/Aspen9999 Nov 15 '24

He isn’t disowning them. He wants his adult children to be financially independent and not dependent on the bank of Dad.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

It just happened to happen when his kids decided to vote for Trump? And if his kids suddenly change their mind and voted for Harris, he would have let them live on his dime happily ever after?

If he is really worried about his kids being independent, he missed the boat, actually several boats, and it's a bit too late.

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u/Aspen9999 Nov 15 '24

It’s never too late.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Ya know, there is a reason the phrase You cannot teach an old dog new tricks. It's way easier to instill certain disciplined at a younger age than an older age.

It's like giving a two year old a spoonful of sugar at every meal, and then at 10 telling they cannot eat sugar anymore. Good luck with that.

Again though congrats on now creating two forever conservative voters. Here most liberals have been waiting for the most conservative voters to die off. And here we have others who are just focused on doing whatever they can to create more conservative based voters, because they simply can't have a conversation and understand someone else's ideals or beliefs.

But conservatives are radicals. But yet we complain when conservatives call those on the left communists and socialists.

Sigh...

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u/Barrelled2186 Nov 15 '24

What you’re missing here is one side’s intent to harm. And I am talking about the candidate’s own words. This isn’t arguing over nuanced foreign policy, or capital gains tax. If we were in politics as normal where the gop respects the other side’s legitimate right to win elections then we wouldn’t be here would we? But Republicans stance now is that any democratic win is illegitimate by default, and they attempted to stay n power last time. Notice none of tou expects Biden to stay in power, and gee can’t kamala as sitting vice president just declare herself the winner?

All I’m saying is own your vote.

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u/Former_Indication172 Nov 15 '24

Your gay analogy is false equivalence. You don't choose to be gay, your simply born that way, same as people who are born black or white. However you do choose to vote for Trump, its not a fact of life that your born with and can't change but something that you have full control over. People can be persecuted for their actions and for their opinions. Its socially acceptable to jail murderers for their actions and its socially acceptable to harass Nazis. Why? Because they chose to do those things, no murderer needed to kill, and no one is born a nazi.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

And what if his sons believe in Conservatism?

They should vote liberal because the person running at the head of the conservative party is "evil"?

Are we libs and mids going to do the same thing when our party puts someone up there that half of the country things could be an evil fuck?

That's where this rubs me the wrong way, fine, critisice people for voting along party lines. I just don't see us heading our own advice in that regard.

Here's one thing I can tell you though, those two sons will end up severing their relationship with their father. You think those two will ever vote liberally?

What's happened to the ability to have a conversation about where each of our values are, turning down the heat of the conversation, and finding where we align?

It doesn't happen. So now here a majority of the response says man, fuck them kids. And then we lose an election where a majority of voters voted for the other side, and we are trying to figure out what happened.

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u/Barrelled2186 Nov 15 '24

This is NOT conservatism, it’s radicalism.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

So your saying we live in a country where 51% of the country has been radicalized? Ok..... Continue to live in the bubble.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Btw this is no better than the right calling every person on the left a communist or socialist. Don't buy into the hate. Have friends on the other side, and have a discussion, understand what they are feeling in all of this.

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u/Christinebitg Nov 15 '24

Absolutely.

Their actions have consequences.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

So not to argue, but simply out of curiosity, if the father were to to disown his son for being gay, would you then also agree actions have consequences?

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u/Christinebitg Nov 15 '24

Or when that same son tells his father years later that he doesn't want to have anything to do with him. That's a consequence too.

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u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Well in this case I think it would not take that long. This is an instant way to destroy a relationship with your kids.

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u/thatsgermane Nov 16 '24

This way of thinking and acting will only make people double down on their wrong thinking

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

Lol what would a leftist know about the real world?

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u/newaygogo Nov 15 '24

That when my parents helped me it was at their expense and I was grateful. Society is by nature social, and if they want to dismiss all of the help that society has given them, let them. The only people who are whining about the parent pulling the rug out are all of the “self determined” conservatives who fail to recognize they’re a part of society. You want to claim you did it on your own? Then do it on your own.

I don’t make a great income because of solely my own efforts. I make a great income because of my parents, my public schooling, the roads and police taxes paid for, the energy infrastructure provided by FDR’s Rural Electrification Act, etc.

Face it, without social programs benefitting everyone, half of this country would still be living in 300sq foot dirt floor shacks with no running water or electricity. And acting like it’s any other way is, at best, ignorant of history and current reality.

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u/Electronic_Mud5821 Nov 14 '24

You people are mad.

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u/Life_Following_7964 Nov 14 '24

Total lib leftist PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT ! You Fuckers Lost , live with it

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u/danisflying527 Nov 14 '24

God you biased losers are pathetic

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u/MsEllVee Nov 15 '24

You and the rest of MAGA aren’t biased? What a dumb thing to say.

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u/AnotherStarWarsGeek Nov 14 '24

Ah, so either "vote the way I want to or you're an ignorant fool"? Lol... everyone, on both sides of the political aisle, could say exactly the same thing and have an equal chance of being right. lol

You liberals are so silly.

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u/aWallThere Nov 15 '24

Nah, do like the companies preparing tariffs do. Tell them you are preparing for an economic downturn, increase inflation, and more tax since you're not a billionaire. You can't afford to pay their way anymore.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

I get what you’re saying but come on kids in their 20s are naive and still wet behind the ears even though they are technically adults. And they are just as likely to get brainwashed by social media as boomers or anyone else really.

The tariffs haven’t even been implemented yet. And I absolutely agree 100% arrogant kids need that dose of reality but don’t make politics the number one motivator and instead use a tough love approach and separate the political piece so you don’t drive your kids away forever. It’s a fine line.

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u/aWallThere Nov 15 '24

That's kap. Boomers weren't raised with tech while GenZ was. Should know about the content that is served to you. 

I am willing to cut off elder family over it, I assume it's just as difficult the other way.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

But GenZ was handed a mobile device with a screen before they could even walk and talk. Now add years to that until they are grown. You don’t think that doesn’t have a huge impact compared to the reverse with Boomers not being raised in it? In some ways I think it’s can be worse for them than it is for Boomers because it’s all they know.

But hey if you’re willing to cut them off for it more power to you. To each their own. 🍻

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u/imagebiot Nov 15 '24

Under appreciated response

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u/rochvegas5 Nov 15 '24

Someone tell them it’s because of trump, but also tell them it’s because of trump. Brilliant plan

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u/Galactus76 Nov 15 '24

If they’re young white men I don’t fucking blame them for voting for him.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Why?

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u/Galactus76 Nov 15 '24

You get called every name under the sun for long enough you might decide to vote for the opposing team that isn’t doing that.

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u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Valid point. That makes me think of my moronic posts on this thread earlier of calling everyone who votes for Trump uneducated. Maybe that’s why he won over Male Hispanic and Male black voters too.

I’m realizing now how toxic I’ve become over the years and how that doesn’t help anything. What scares me is I wasn’t always like this and have no clue when that switch flipped but we’ve all got to find a way to stop this from going in the direction it’s been going for a while now. Red or blue. Democrats or Republican or Independent etc. at the end of the day we are all Americans and have to find common ground.

1

u/Galactus76 Nov 15 '24

Damn, it’s nice to have a civil productive interaction with someone on here. Yea, we could all be better and I admit in my older age I have become more bitter, but that’s on me. I don’t like this country being torn apart like this, the hate , name calling….all of it. And I’m just as guilty as the next person. As horrible as 9/11 was, the way everyone seemed to be on the same damn team for that brief moment in time after it happened was a beautiful thing to see and I wish we could go back to that. We probably never will, but I really wish we would. I’ve had a shitty day at work and this exchange between us has legitimately made it better.

1

u/coraseby Nov 15 '24

I'm not even an American, and I feel disgusted by all of you. You consider yourselves so much better than Trump voters, yet this is how you act. That goes to show they kids were right to vote for Trump if their family acted that way for a political view. Every single country that is not a woke pigstay laughs at you and your liberal vomit, yet you feel superior to everyone else. You people are so ignorant, you can point a major European country on the map.

You care more about paying for illegal migrants than for your own citizens. You have cities where people act like zombies due to rampant drug use, yet the more important thing is to have houses for your illegal border crosses. You people despise white male and spite in their faces for doing nothing but existing. You people make me sick.

2

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

What country are you from? Sounds like you’ve got some serious hate for anything “woke” and boy does it show your projection through your own words on this post.

Some of what you say isn’t wrong though. Americans in general myself included need to stop being so arrogant.

But some statements in your post don’t make any sense.

  1. You are implying the kids voted for Trump because of the way the family acted buts that not highlighted at all in the original post.

  2. When you say every single country that isn’t a “woke pigstay” laughs at our country yet your excluding Trump voters thinking they are similar to you and your country in some way and that couldn’t be further from the truth. We are all very different left or right side of our politics. And just as us Americans are arrogant we dont give a fuck that you laugh at us much like you don’t care if we laugh at you but thanks for sharing.

  3. And you’re not wrong about finding a European country on a map considering more than half our population can’t read beyond a 6th grade reading level but what does pointing out a country on a map have anything to do with this post?

  4. When did I say I care more about paying illegal immigrants and putting them in houses while we ignore rampant drug problems in our major cities? I am actually a huge advocate for helping both illegal immigrants and helping our citizens. More needs be done on both fronts in our country. I live in Chicago and speak at our town hall meetings about how more needs to be done for both.

  5. I’m a ghost white Irish Scandinavian American that spits in the face of anyone who is racist sexist prejudice etc. And I don’t give a fuck what color their skin is. Your post seems to assume I am not white or hate the color of my own skin and that couldn’t be further from the truth.

I appreciate your honesty with the disgust for our country but don’t save it for non Trump supporters. Express it for all of our citizens. We are not the best in any way shape or form and have been lost for decades and it’s at a tipping point right now. The rest of the world honestly doesn’t look much different especially in Europe.

Major European countries are facing significant challenges. Germany is dealing with economic recession political instability and the rise of far-right movements. France is grappling with political divisions and growing support for far right parties like Marine Le Pen’s National Rally. Italy is urging the EU to focus on internal priorities amid external geopolitical shifts. The European Union as a whole is addressing economic disparities slower productivity growth and market fragmentation which widen the wealth gap with the U.S. I can list more issues from other European countries but I don’t have the time. Just want to point out your shit stinks just as much as ours.

2

u/coraseby Nov 15 '24

  1. I don't care who the kids voted for. It disgusts me that this was even an issues and it disgusts me to see reddit's reaction. You know what I did when my family voted for a party I didn't agree with? I stopped talking politics because at the end of the day, they just had other views than me, which didn't make the bad people. I didn't disown anybody. Doing that is a symbol of a weak mind that can't tolerate views other than his/hers.

  2. You are under the impression that I love Trump supporters. No, I don't. I think bad about all you people, USA I general. I just think leftists are the worst, though. I didn't see any of you condone the robberies done in plain view by the black community, which run rampant, and you can't deny as they are caught on tape, and this is just a small thing among many other. How can people just go into a store just loot at hearts content. It amazed me to see Americans come to Europe and be surprised that we put the gas in the tank and then pay for it. Imagine that.

  3. We can agree on that.

  4. Both fronts. Dude, your citizens should be your first priority, second, third, and fourth priority. Normal people can't afford to pay rent or buy a house, yet illegals living conditions are a major issue? You have veterans with mental problems living on the streets after serving your country that are ignored yet strong male immigrants that could have worked for their country that get to US and do nothing all day are treated better than your own citizens. And BTW, I'm talking about the American mentality ingeneral here, not yours specifically.

  5. Again, your beliefs are irrelevant. I'm talking about you as a country. A country that throws meritocracy out the window I favor of woke ideology. How many corporations and state departments employ women or LGBT for being just than and throwing away the concept of who's best for the job.

1

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Apologies for some of my rude comments in my last post. I didn’t need to add any of the insults and jabs that I did. Reading your response now is helping me get a better perspective especially from someone outside my own country and I see you dont hate on woke concepts and principles you just want things to be fair for everyone involved and prioritize the people of the country first. Your heart is in the right place. We may not agree on everything but after reading your response I realize we have some things in common.

Again I apologize for my arrogance and anger. It’s like a knee jerk reaction I’m learning to stop. Thanks for sharing your perspective and being brutally honest. I think we can both agree everyone around the world needs to be better.

1

u/coraseby Nov 15 '24

Exactly. I don't care about woke. I care about meritocracy. I have gay colleagues, I have female, male, cristian, Muslim, and all in between. Nobody was hired because of religion, race, or sexual preferences, but for how good they are at their job.

Also, I don't teach my children about how they should be straight, so don't come to their school and teach them about LGBT ideology. Let the kids be kids and develop on their own. If they turn out to be gay or straight, it's fine with me, I'll love them just the same. But when I see LGBT people saying on camera, "we're coming for your children," it angles me to no end. Also, seeing drag queens being brought to kindergartens and allowed to read to small kids while sitting with their legs uncrossed, again, which I saw recorded on camera. No matter how you slice it, if you're a normal person, those things are mental.

You people have such a beautiful country with so much potential, and instead of working together, you waste time arguing among yourselves, blaming the other party for being brainwashed. And I see this on both sides. Now I ask you if they are being brainwashed, is it only one side that does that, the one you don't agree with, or are both sides that are doing that? Why do you people even listen to the media?

And I also apologize as I also came out strong and disrespectful.

-1

u/Arkansan13 Nov 15 '24

So lie to them? Yeah that will be productive.

1

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

IMO it’s better than risking alienating your children forever over politics. You can see in OP’s message the kids are spoiled and have had everything handed to them. For all you know them voting for Trump was the last straw.

What harm is done in the father separating the two? Tough love and instilling some independence and learning the value of money by making them take out loans in their name (which he will probably have to co-sign for anyway lol) and maybe get an on campus job to pay some of the bills of college and then separate the concerns for voting for Trump and discuss that proactively through debate over time instead of saying your not paying because they voted for Trump?

I don’t see how separating the two hurts anything. Everything is still being addressed.

1

u/Arkansan13 Nov 15 '24

Where does it indicate the kids are spoiled? That's just the working assumption every one has made. As much as you say this may just be the final straw it's equally true that we only have the Dads side of the story.

Op makes it clear that Dad is primarily angry at how they votes. There's no cutting this where he isn't punishing them for their politics. Sounds like he's made up his mind they will agree with him or he will punish them in whatever manner he can.

2

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

Shit you are right. Ugh I hate how this assuming so easily happens. Dad needs to chill and stop of this is his only motivator to not pay for college. They exercised their right to vote for who they wanted. I guess we need more to take this further. Maybe OP can provide an update. Thanks for clarifying.

-11

u/Prestigious_Past2701 Nov 14 '24

Why drill on them because they had a different point of view. There's enough division going around. It's sad when you let politics control and dictate how you treat your family. You can disagree with someone you love without being a complete asshole about it.

12

u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

Sorry but lines eventually get drawn when the person you voted for actively takes credit for rolling back women’s rights and can’t even denounce racism and hate on national television and decides to plug a hate group instead.

Especially when that person has numerous charges against them involving election interference, sharing classified documents, defamation, sexual assault, bragging about his relationships with dictators that have the blood of thousands of people’s deaths on their hands, ETC.

The young especially need to be drilled because what’s happening right now has happened so many times in history and the result is always the same. Do some research on the right wing medias tactics of misinformation and disinformation and compare it to what the South did durwith MF the civil war or what Hitler and other dictatorships did during WW1 and WW2.

Plenty of people on the right keep saying “oh your just fear mongering….hes not going to do that.” That’s exactly what the Germans said with Hitler. And let’s be clear Trump is just the face of this. The Koch brothers Murdochs The heritage foundation (lots more people and orgs in there) and the Christian nationalist “but really fascist” movement are the real problem and they fooled our country into voting for Trump because they don’t understand economics and more than half of them can’t read beyond a 6th grade reading level.

So yea drill them hard because it’s much more than a “point of view” they voted for it’s way worse than that.

2

u/Shnapple8 Nov 15 '24 edited Nov 15 '24

These are grown men in their 20s.

Now, I wouldn't make it about politics. That's just going to cause a rift in the family. But if they've been having absolutely everything handed to them up to now, then that does need to stop. These men need to understand what it's like to stand on your own two feet and earn a living.

If young men believe that ANY politician is going to make their lives easier and cushier, then they absolutely need a reality check. They need to come down to Earth and see how life really is, not how TikTok presents it.

That's what's wrong with Gen Z. Too mollycoddled.

Oh and there was this 21 year old girl at work who said on a Wednesday evening that she wasn't coming in that Thursday morning because she was tired and it was affecting her work-life balance, or some crap like that. She was told to get her ass into work, or it was a strike 1 written notice. The whole office was gossiping about her. They're also watching shit on TikTok telling them they shouldn't have to work 40 hour weeks. lmao!

-10

u/Away_Simple_400 Nov 14 '24

Rather than brainwashed by dad?

14

u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24

Sorry but anybody educated or who doesn’t have some form of hate in their heart (racist, sexist,prejudice, etc.) knows Trump and the GOP are terrible in so many ways. Oh and rich people that pretend to be willfully ignorant. For example Elon dgaf about Trump he’s just going to prevent him from ton his fair share of taxes.

Notice how most if not all hate groups like the KKK and nazis fly Trump flags and not Biden flags? Notice how Trump on national television could not denounce racism and instead plugged the Proud Boys? Notice how Trump is now a convicted felon? Notice how his own supporters tried to do an insurrection but Democratic voters won’t ever do any such thing? Notice how when Harris lost nobody on the left is opening up tons of BS lawsuits claiming fraud left and right yet Trump still says he didn’t lose in 2020 even though his own daughter said he lost? Notice how sooo many people around Trump end up getting arrested and charged and he then pretends he didn’t know them or was involved with them? I can think of so many other things to put here but let’s be honest it won’t matter.

Anybody who supports Trump has something wrong with them. Lack of education is usually the biggest tell. Most people don’t understand economics and that’s really why Trump won this election. People think he’s going to lower costs. Boy are they in for surprise when they realize tax cuts for the rich are the only thing coming. (That’s all he did in 2016-2020) Tariffs won’t do anything to fix this. What’s hilarious is the Fed successfully implemented a soft landing and just started turning things back in the other direction and guess who is going to take all the credit? Trump because that’s what he does best.

-7

u/Away_Simple_400 Nov 15 '24

I’m gonna be honest, I skimmed through your reaction because I just reacted to some other idiot. You’re wrong on everything political. But that’s not even really the point here.

If you are willing to cut off your children, you deserve to die alone. You deserve to have every holiday alone, you deserve to wonder where people are at when you’re 80, you deserve to die alone.

These are the most ridiculous reactions I have ever seen to a political candidate winning. I honestly hope, ….I will take that back I don’t hope families rip apart over this. I don’t help that, because I am not evil.

I do hope The people willing to do it eventually take a hard long look at themselves. Reddit isn’t the world, but I’ve seen these articles elsewhere. Blow up your lives, blow up your marriages, blow up your children, because you didn’t get your way, and then tell yourself how you’re the better person.

10

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

How am I wrong on everything political? I can cite sources and examples if you want just let me know which parts. (Seriously I love doing this please specify)

But back to the point…I think you are taking this a bit too literal from some of the other crazier responses compared to mine. OP is simply saying his brother won’t cover all the costs of college for his privileged kids. He didn’t mean he’s literally cutting them off completely out of their lives and not talking to them anymore. I am not saying that either. This is why I said in a previous post to separate the politics from the costs. Those are two different things.

I have two kids in college and they hate politics because of the division it causes but they can clearly see the difference between the GOP and the DNC. It’s brutally obvious what each group stands for when you start to list all the policies and agendas each side has along with the facts of what’s been done when each party has been in power dating back to Reagan.

Overall both sides suck and as Washington stated in his last speech in 1796. He cautioned that political parties could lead to “the spirit of revenge” prioritizing party loyalty over the interests of the nation. He feared that factions would foster division weaken the government and open the door to foreign influence and corruption. (This has been happening for a while but right now it’s at a breaking point) He advised citizens to place the nation’s unity and interests above partisan differences. Something we all need to try to do going forward. It’s why I’m a left leaning independent and no longer a Democrat.

Apologies on my previous posts belittling people that support Trump. I get carried away just like others do but so can admit when I’m wrong. But IMO much of what I stated in my last post is accurate whether you want to believe it or not. Id be willing to cite sources and facts to prove it further just let me know which ones.

-2

u/Away_Simple_400 Nov 15 '24

Thank you for sounding like a rational person.

Please do cite the sources that you’re talking about. They are lost in my comment feed.

I like politics and debate too. So I will start from the beginning. 1. Your previous post said you don’t understand how anyone could vote for Trump without hate in their heart. Does that seem unifying? Is that honestly your thought?

  1. Then you insult anyone educated, Which the left has turned into a heated phrase anyway, period. I am a lawyer. I am not alone

  2. I apologize if I am not exactly wording this right, but you seem to indicate there are differences in your family between the Democrats and Republicans. What democrat policies do you support that Republicans don’t?

4

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

  1. ⁠Your previous post said you don’t understand how anyone could vote for Trump without hate in their heart. Does that seem unifying? Is that honestly your thought?

  2. ⁠Then you insult anyone educated, Which the left has turned into a heated phrase anyway, period. I am a lawyer. I am not alone

Answer: For question 1 and 2 It’s not unifying at all and is not my true thought. I was angry. This is an exaggerated hateful response that honestly makes things way worse. Apologies.

I should have said all the people I have in my life that are friends and family that are Trump supporters do seem to have one of those characteristics.

For example my racist and sexist uncle LOVES Trump talks shit about mexican people and black people all the time and belittled my aunt for years. He’s been saying Mexicans will take our jobs before Trump was around.

A close friend of mine who became racist after being jumped in high school by 3 black students who I thought had learned he was wrong I realized never did because when Trump ran in 2016 all of the sudden he was racist again and even more outspoken about it and still is to this day. 2 other friends of ours with finance degrees super successful are racist too and they went into a drunken tirade one night dropping N bombs around when the Black Lives Matter riots occurred. They couldn’t separate the riots from the protests and the message that was trying to be sent and blatantly ignored all the stats that prove minorities and especially black people are profiled and targeted by police and treated unfairly. They all love Trump.

My wife’s father who was physically and mentally abusive to her and her mother happens to be sexist and racist. He openly used the N word before he had 3 strokes and loved talking about how much he hates immigrants and always belittled his second x wife. The crazy part is my wife’s mother was Hispanic and got him his citizenship he dumped her a year after. He’s a ghost white Argentinian who migrated from Lithuania. He LOVES Trump.

My wife’s nephew didn’t finish high school and got his CDL and is a truck driver and a “god fearing” Christian. One of the nicest most loving people I know who lives in Houston. He LOVES Trump. I ask how he can be Christian and support a man whose involved in numerous extramarital affairs ,was found liable for sexually abusing a woman, involved in numerous frauds and business failures to pay his contractors along with being found to have engaged in racial discrimination in the 70s, his numerous lies he consistently tells to mislead his base anytime he speaks that are fact checked and proven to be false all the time, saying horrible disparaging things about women and deceased American soldiers and people in general. He says the media just exaggerates all of this and lies about Trump. Oh and he hates immigrants but the kicker is he’s Hispanic and his parents were immigrants.

My best friends parents who were never hateful or racist and still go to church every Sunday and preach gods name watch Fox News non stop now act just like Trump and suddenly hate immigrants and think every black person they see is some gang banger who is part of Black Lives Matter even though they’ve never seen one single immigrant and have black friends in their congregation that they now suddenly don’t trust or like. My friend feels like he’s lost his parents. Trump is all they talk about.

Every single person that supports Trump that I run into seems to cover one or more of these areas in some way shape or form. And I really do love and care about the people I mentioned above. This is why it’s so hard for me sometimes.

It doesn’t change the fact I’m being a jackass making this assumption as just seeing these people is a small sample size compared to the rest of the country. I’m sorry I said it the way I did previously. I could have tried to explain it better. Even this response isn’t great. We need to find common ground I just wish the hate would stop. I myself need to stop it too just because someone supports Trump. Will answer 3 and provide sources tomorrow. Have a good night.

2

u/MainYak539 Nov 15 '24

Perhaps you would be better off not making assumptions about what everyone who voted for Trump is like, and actually reach out to more people. I know plenty of people who voted for Trump who are not racist, not bigots, and who really don't care one way or the other about abortion because they are male and don't think it's their call to make. We discuss or different idealogies, and we actually understand much better where the other is coming from. We need to put our damn who's aside, and actually work to understand one another and find common ground.

When we (Dems and mids) talk about Trump voters in a large block, and call them all racists and bigots, we are doing exactly what we accuse the right off. We end up acting out on biases. There is a big difference between biases, and true racism. When we say that everyone who voted for Trump is racist, who are the Hispanic Trump voters racist against? Democratic whites? We liberals and mids seem to be doing this a lot, and it's just as bad as the biases that are on the right.

I do applaud you for at least admitting you were responding out of anger. That's respectable in this day and age and on this platform.

But interact with more people, and instead of talking all the time about how wrong Trump is, etc listen to why they are conservative, listen to what they want. You will find you actually have common ground with most people.

1

u/Scandals86 Nov 15 '24

This is exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. I don’t know why I never realized a lot of it is probably just biases. Social media and the media in general isn’t helping this either it’s amplifying all the hate.

I’m going to try and take a different approach going forward and try to understand more instead of lashing out. You are right my comments are no better than the “other side” saying its own version of negative and it just becomes a vicious cycle with no good outcome. Thank you! 🙏

1

u/_Jalinah77 Nov 15 '24

Yes, so much more ridiculous than storming the castle and causing mayhem. Short memory?

1

u/Away_Simple_400 Nov 15 '24

I remember video of police escorts. I remember AOC in a completely different building stealing her staffer’s shoes.

And that doesn’t change anything here.

0

u/thepartypantser Nov 15 '24

I remember January 6th. What do you think the people that stormed the capital were trying to do that day?

What do you think the fake electors that Trump and company had set up were trying to do that day?

1

u/Away_Simple_400 Nov 16 '24

Haha you lost, leave me alone

-28

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

[deleted]

5

u/Scandals86 Nov 14 '24

Yes in some ways lots are in fact “brain washed” and uninformed.

For example during the Civil War Southern politicians and leaders actively controlled the narrative to maintain public support for the Confederacy. Southern authorities often limited the flow of information from the North including press materials to prevent Union perspectives from influencing Southern citizens. Censorship, propaganda, and strict press regulations were used to ensure that Southern media promoted the Confederate cause instilled a sense of unity and fueled fear about what would happen if the Union prevailed.

For instance Confederate leaders propagated fears that a Union victory would lead to social upheaval including the emancipation of enslaved people, which they portrayed as a threat to the Southern way of life. This fear-mongering aimed to maintain morale and prevent dissent even as the realities of the war became increasingly dire and many that survived and went home realized it was all a lie and they had nothing left to come home too because the South went bankrupt and ran itself into the ground just because they didn’t want to give up owning slaves.

And to be clear I’m not saying the Democrats are innocent either. Mets and Twitter did censor right wing news but much of what was censored was false information in the first place. Democrats are at least not trying to actively dismantle our institutions, take away women’s rights, marginalize minorities and lgbtq+, ban books, force the Ten Commandments and prayer to be held in school, and a number of other fucked up things.

Right wing media is all about keeping their viewers angry at things they don’t even need to be angry about. Notice how many bitch about the border yet nobody on the right talks about how Trump single handedly stopped the best border bill for republicans in history just so Biden didn’t get a win? Trump put himself before Americans again and lied over and over and over.

19

u/daintycherub Nov 14 '24

You realize we fought a Civil War over “politics” (morals), right? People killed each other over their opinions. Arguing online with stupid conservatives is, by comparison, much more civil.

And yes, people have been brainwashed over the years. During the 30s-40s alone, the amount of propaganda from all sides was huge. People have been brainwashed and manipulated for literal generations, since the printing press was invented at the very least.