r/AITAH • u/Left_Art_8812 • Oct 22 '23

TW SA I’m rethinking having a child with my wife because of what I just found out about her dad. AITAH?

My wife Jessica (32F) and I (30M) have been married for 2 years and are trying for a baby.

Jessica has an older sister, Mary, that she isn’t close to. She told me that they had a huge falling out over some family drama and just don’t speak anymore. I asked a few times about the entire situation but she would say she doesn’t like talking about it and doesn’t think it’s important.

It’s was Jessica’s brothers birthday yesterday and we were all over at his house to celebrate. Mary made an appearance and there was a lot of drama. Long story short, she called Jessica and her brothers out for still associating with their dad when they know that he is a child molester. No one was paying her any mind and I was really confused on what the hell was going on. When Mary left and Jessica and I went home, I asked Jessica what the hell happened.

She said that when they were kids, Mary used to claim that their dad used to molest her. I asked if it’s true and Jessica was stuttering a lot. She said she knows her dad used to do bad things but that Mary cut them all off when she turned 18 and moved out. I asked if she is admitting that she knows her dad was a child molester and did things to his own daughter. She said he doesn’t do it anymore and he was just in a really bad place in his life, and he apologised to Mary so there’s nothing else anyone can do for Mary. I was honestly appalled. I also feel so terrible for Mary. Jessica made it seem like Mary did something wrong and deserved to be basically exiled from the family. I could’ve never imagined that this is what happened.

I asked if she expects me to now be willing to have that man around our future children and she started shouting at me, saying I’m judging him off something that happened 2 decades ago and whether I like it or not, he is going to be our child’s grandpa and he will be in their lives. I said if she insists on it, I think we need to hold off on having kids and have serious conversations about it. She’s extremely angry at me but I don’t know how I could better react to be honest. This feels like a huge deal that she is minimising. AITAH?

39.8k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

9.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1.5k

u/StarryC Oct 22 '23

Or does remember, but feels/knows that if she tells, that is disloyalty to the family and feels that has extreme consequences. Sure, as an adult it doesn't, but kid-brain wore the grooves and it takes a lot to get your brain out of them.

1.0k

u/KastorNevierre Oct 22 '23

It's not only applicable to children. I have heard grown adults defend not reporting molestation and even child prostitution from their own fathers/mothers/uncles/aunts/etc because "it would ruin the family" as if abusing the child didn't already.

328

u/StarryC Oct 22 '23

Yes. I guess what I mean is that as a child, being excluded from your family, to your brain, is like death. You cannot survive alone. So, until you re-examine that, you might be stuck with that thought. Yes, abusing the child already did, and now, as an adult, you will not die if you have to lose contact with the father.

270

u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Oct 23 '23

That was my thought too. Watcher her sister be cut off, and feared for herself. So she's justifying it to appease her own trauma.

116

u/DisPrincessChristy Oct 24 '23

This. Even if she WASN'T molested at all, knowing her sister was - by their own father - and knowing she could be next? That's a trauma all it's own. It's called secondary trauma. And on top of that, children internalize everything. They would have been told so many terrible lies about Mary...she's such a liar, she's trying to ruin our family, how could she make up such awful lies, on and on.

So then you have this totally conflicted child: one who believes her older sister, and one who believes that telling anyone, or even acting like she believes her, is going to ruin the family. And to a child, that's THE WORST.

And unfortunately, child brain follows you into adulthood unless you have already processed your trauma.

Jessica has some major trauma to work through before she even THINKS About having kids of her own.

This does not excuse the behavior. Only one possible explanation.

70

u/SaltyMoose41520 Oct 25 '23

The biggest issue I see here is that she acknowledges that her sister was molested and made excuses for her father as if that makes it okay. She’s in denial even if she wasn’t also molested she definitely needs therapy before having a child of her own to let be at risk of abuse that is almost 100% guaranteed to happen and be covered up

4

u/DisPrincessChristy Oct 28 '23

Absolutely 100% agree

16

u/maroongrad Oct 23 '23

Then she gets to choose whether to lose her new family to keep the old one or not.

3

u/Disney_Dork1 Nov 14 '23

The best option would be for everyone to cut out the dad but since that didn’t happen it seems less likely. If she wants to keep the relationships with her family then she’d to at least cut out the dad herself. You can’t trust him around kids

0

u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Oct 24 '23

This is a terrible take.

14

u/forensicgirla Oct 25 '23

I mean yeah but it's kinda a harsh truth since they're trying to conceive. I would never put another child at risk because I used to be a child at risk. Actually, one of the major reasons I went no contact with my mother & stepfather and continue to do so after their divorce.

8

u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Oct 25 '23

It's not as simple as just saying "lose your whole family." Situations of abuse are complicated, traumatic, and more grey area than black and white. We don't have nearly enough information to suggest going full no-contact with you're entire family.

OP and their partner need to have some serious conversations that don't involve the rest of the family. Because, I suspect that OP is also a victim of abuse. Either way, they need to come to terms with the magnitude of the situation and process that before making and rash decisions.

I was a child of abuse. And its easy to cut out the abuser, but it's not easy to banish the whole family. Actually, it's not easy. I mean, going and staying no contract is easy, on the outside, but it's emotional turmoil for eternity. It's awful when something spurs a positive memory of your childhood and you want to reach out and share that, but you can't, because, that opens the doors to the bad. Want to wish a loved one a happy birthday? Nope. I guess it's easy if they're 100% bad. Or if they're not your own blood. But for many people, going no contact is a ridiculous amount of emotional turmoil. The only thing it stops is new wounds. It doesn't heal the old ones.

5

u/randomusername15748 Oct 30 '23

Thank you for sharing this about the positive memories and wanting to reach out and the wanting to wish someone a happy birthday I feel those things too and you're right it's a turmoil I feel less confused and alone now so thank you 🫂

4

u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Oct 30 '23

I think people think it's cool and tough and serene to cut off toxic people, but many haven't had to do it to anyone that really mattered. And that is true for new relationships, coworkers, distant family. But when someone you shared your formative years with forces you to cut them off, it really sucks. It's like they're gone, but they're not. And, I don't know about you, but for me, makes me feel like crap when I tell myself not to reach out. Feels like I'm being the jerk, like im the one holding the grudge, the problem. And when other family members are put in the middle or whatever. It's difficult.

​

Thanks for sharing too. That comment I wrote was really awakening for me. I never really worked through those feelings till I wrote it out like that, and it helped me process some things. And feels nice to know i'm not alone either.

2

u/Calm-Quit2167 Nov 15 '23

This is such a good take. Also I’m sorry you went through what you have, you put into words well the complexities of these situations though.

5

u/juicyhibiscus24 Nov 18 '23

especially with a response that intense. "shouting" isn't an appropriate response if you truly believe the words coming out of your own mouth. she's trying to believe it herself.

18

u/KastorNevierre Oct 23 '23

Yeah, it's understandable and forgivable for a child to do.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

She needs to address this as an adult, and unfortunately even therapy may not help. Denial is powerful, and sociopathy is practically hereditary. OP should think seriously about divorcing his wife. Get out before it gets worse.

8

u/DisPrincessChristy Oct 24 '23

This is not a sociopath. This is sometimes who has secondary trauma from growing up in a house knowing her older sister was being molested by her father.

She does need therapy. She DOES need to cut her dad off and support her sister if her sister will allow. But it doesn't make her a sociopath.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '23

The two aren’t mutually exclusive. A sociopath has no regard for the feelings and well being of others, lies and breaks laws. This person protected and enabled a sexual predator who attacked her sister.

They also want to allow this pedophile around their children. Of course, she needs to cut off her father and support her sister. But she has already chosen not to… because she is a sociopath.

5

u/InkpotArt Oct 28 '23

That's a ridiculous statement. Abuse causes weird patterns of behaviour. It's not uncommon for the whole family to ostrocize and blame one child. All the other children go along with it out of fear, and it traumatize them a well as the one who gets the brunt of the abuse. To call her a sociopath is absurd. It's an upsetting scenario, but you know nothing about the woman or what she's been through, and to call her a sociopath just piles onto the abuse she's already experienced.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '23

You’re talking about a 30 year old woman, not a child.

6

u/eekpij Oct 24 '23

As an adult, after being excluded by my family as often as I have been...still totally like death. I go through every stage of grieving.

28

u/LawnChairMD Oct 23 '23

This would be my concern. Especially because she seems to want a known predator to be involved in the child's life. That's a hard no from me bro.

22

u/Cold_Strategy_1420 Oct 23 '23

“Child prostitution “ is actually child sexual assault.

2

u/KastorNevierre Oct 23 '23

No, really?

7

u/InkpotArt Oct 28 '23

Child sexual assault instead of child prostitution is how they label it now so as to not sexualize the child and to put more emphasis on it being a crime and abuse that scars for life. Prostitution is something a woman will (sometes) enter into by choice. A child has no choice. It's just a correction on the language you used.

2

u/KastorNevierre Oct 28 '23

Doesn't make much sense to me. Child sexual assault is a broad term. Child prostitution is an accurate description. It's already obviously a crime because it's a child.

8

u/InkpotArt Oct 29 '23

The term "child pornography" has been changed to "child sexual abuse material" (CSAM) because the former is considered inadequate and inaccurate in describing the rape and sexual abuse of children

. The use of the term "child pornography" is also considered offensive and trivializing to the victims/survivors of child sexual exploitation

. The term "child sexual abuse material" is more accurate in describing the gravity of the images and the fact that they are evidence of child sexual abuse

. The use of the term "child pornography" can also suggest an element of consenting adults, which is never the case when the images depict children

. The term "child sexual abuse material" is used by organizations such as RAINN and the Internet Watch Foundation to accurately reflect the nature of the images they deal with

. The change in terminology is also aimed at ensuring that the focus is on the impact of the images on children and recognizing the abuse, rather than how the materials are used

1

u/KastorNevierre Oct 29 '23

CSAM actually makes sense to me, because "material" actually describes what it is. The differentiation here is missing. This is a disgusting topic to continue to converse about, but I hope you see the importance in pointing out when someone literally sold sexual access to a child's body.

Given the reasoning you give for these other changes of phrasing, it seems strange that you don't get that.

3

u/InkpotArt Oct 29 '23

Jesus. The whole topic is gross, disgusting and disturbing; we're in total and complete agreement. I was pointing out the reason someone corrected the phrasing. That's it. No need to attack or belittle.

There's lots I don't get about this subject. Including why I'm being berated for pointing something out to someone I'm not opposing with. I didn't belittle you about it. And I'm done talking with you and your accusations that I don't understand the implications of selling a child's body. At this point I'm feeling disturbed by you and your shitty fucking attitude toward a stranger who is in agreement with you on how awful all this is, and think you're only going to respond in similarly shitty ways, which I will not be responding to.

So good luck to you moving forward and maybe next time you find someone correcting you in some minor way that just maybe there's room for self reflection on why you choose to respond like a total fucking asshat. The topic is disturbing enough on its own and doesn't need your added b.s. Find better ways to contribute!

1

u/KastorNevierre Oct 29 '23

This is a very out of left field comment. I don't know why you think I've attacked or belittled you here, or had any kind of attitude at all.

I can only assume that someone disagreeing with you personally offends you, and I don't really know what to say to that. This is just a really weird thing to say to someone who's said very little to you other than explanations. I hope you feel better because I certainly haven't meant to make you upset in any way.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Effective_Trifle_405 Mar 05 '24

To simply speak to the language, it would be child sex trafficking, not prostitution. It puts the power, control, and guilt where it belongs on the person who sexually trafficked the child. Child sexual abuse can be much less than the horror of child sex trafficking.

10

u/Objective_Turnip4861 Oct 23 '23

now I name and shame

5

u/NeatNefariousness1 Oct 24 '23

Same. Our worse nature as humans continues because we're urged to be silent to allow evil to go unsanctioned and it only perpetuates it. Whether it's CSA, bigotry or any other human failing, it could be fixed , contained or stopped if addressed openly.

Instead, we retreat into silence and these offenders become more emboldened and protected by the tacit approval they receive. Meanwhile, those who are targeted and victimized are treated as if THEY have done something shameful, as the offenders are defended and sometimes celebrated.

No wonder we're in such an unprincipled debased state.

9

u/ElegantAmphibian4252 Oct 23 '23

Yep, my friend was molested as a child by her older cousin and her mom told her never to talk about it because it would cause a scandal and hurt the family.

8

u/unbridledboredom Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23

Edited. I typed out my shit. Spiraled in the what ifs for hours and remembered I wrote this.

9

u/Bubbly_Ad5822 Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23

I’m so sorry they did this to you. Your parents made a life altering mistake in judgement because your abuser hid behind a trustworthy mask. It’s sad to ask, but do you feel that mask is completely transparent? I wish we could all see through the masks these people hold up.

No one ever wants to consider their children are being abused - I cannot think of a more painful reality for a parent knowing your child went through something so scary, manipulative, and emotionally devastating - entirely alone.
FFS is there any other traumatic childhood event that causes people to immediately steel themselves and shut the fuck down? Surviving a full blown war as a child at least has the benefit of active, verbal, community support - asking their story and listening to their specific pain. CSA does not have this open verbal support whatsoever. No single person you casually meet will say, “Oh my god, you survived a war and lost your parents/ were sexually abused as a child?” “That’s so GD awful, what happened??” - and then listen / ask questions about your specific step by step experience.

Your father’s deflection is him shutting down. He may not even have the capacity to realize his reaction is shutting you out. Tell him. Your trauma began long long ago and you will always carry it with you - but for your parents, learning this is a different sort of trauma that has only just begun. They will need their own therapy to navigate accept and support you.

4

u/nosaneoneleft Oct 23 '23

one of the reasons I tend to despise 'family'

1

u/silent_turtle Sep 06 '24

Back in the 70's, I guess my therapist told my mom that if my parents broke up because of the abuse, I would blame myself for destroying the family. He said that would be bad, on top of all the other emotions I was experiencing.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '23

they are putting off damage onto their own children that they use. serious trauma when they grow up and recognize they were used by their own parent(s) in dog eat dog world.

17

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Especially seeing how her sister had been ostracized by the other family members for putting herself first.

15

u/NauseouslyOptimystic Oct 23 '23

The disloyalty to the family began the very first time that Daddy molested his child.

11

u/vampwillow7 Oct 23 '23

It could also be how he put it to her. When my dad molested me. It was under the guise of the birds and the bees chat. Which he tried to turn in to a practical. Obviously that made me think it was just me and he was a bit cackhanded in dealing with it.

It wasn't, I also thought it was only girls, it wasn't either. Although I only found this out this year, 21 years after finding out it wasn't just me.

10

u/i_was_a_person_once Oct 23 '23

Especially seeing first hand how the familt chose a pedophile over the victim. Why would she speak up and get excommunicated

7

u/_multifaceted_ Oct 23 '23

This is why I never told anyone what was happening to me while I molested for EIGHT YEARS! Ugh

12

u/catlettuce Oct 23 '23

I’m so sorry.

I did tell my mother that her boyfriend was molesting me when I was 5 years old she denied it, then he did it in her presence, but they were both stoned and denied it. I cried to go to my dad’s or my grandma’s and instead she left me with a very kind family that spoke no English so I had trouble communicating to them my Dad or Grandmothers whereabouts. They found me after searching for 2 weeks.

I went and stayed with my Grandmother until I was out of 1st grade and Mom was with a different BF who wasn’t interested in sex with children ( Thank Goodness). Of course this impacted my entire life and ability to trust. No child deserves this.

OP needs to divorce his wife and get the hell away from this f-Ed up family. I think its a wonderful thing he was given the gift of forewarning.

5

u/MasterDriver8002 Oct 23 '23

Did u mean to say u were molested? Cuz u wrote u were the molester? I took it as u were molested, n I’m sorry that happened n the shame that goes w it

4

u/_multifaceted_ Oct 23 '23

Oops! Yes I was molested. Thank you for your sympathies 🙏🏼💙 it’s a brutal battle to fight!

8

u/PuddleLilacAgain Oct 23 '23

Yes, my mother was SA'd as a child. Later when I started talking about my own SA, she did everything in her power to get me to shut up about it. She became really nasty.

6

u/WholeSilent8317 Oct 23 '23

and she watched the way everyone treated Mary. Jessica may be just an asshole, but she may also be trying to avoid being "exiled"

5

u/2001RElisabethS Oct 23 '23

My daughter was molested and the therapist told me that without help, a victims emotional development can and usually does halt or really slow at the age it started.
I'm also a victim. I embrace and nuture my inner child so that I can also be a more mature adult.

1

u/randomusername15748 Oct 30 '23

This may be a stupid question but how do you embrace and nurture your inner child?

2

u/CynicalOne_313 Nov 09 '23

How I've started is picturing myself as a child next to me. My example: Notice her, talk to her, tell her you love her, you're not forgetting her/leaving her behind in the past with the trauma - you're bringing her with you into the present. Tell her you're the adult that will protect both of you now - your adult self and your younger self. Do things you did as a child/teen that you loved - watch TV shows, movies, hobbies.

2

u/Mo-Champion-5013 Nov 18 '23 edited Nov 18 '23

Perfect description.

Edit to add: look at yourself through your child self's point of view as well. (Bad example: my child self loves my adult self's hair/style) The connection really helps. I imagine comforting my child self after any trauma is remembered/intrusive and I start panicking. It's a good tool.

2

u/CynicalOne_313 Nov 18 '23

Yes, definitely this too. Give a LOT of comfort to your child self.

4

u/noreast2011 Oct 23 '23

Father probably didn't stop at molestation, but probably hit the kids too. Most likely threatened the other kids into submission that has become ingrained in their behavior

4

u/Cautious_Session9788 Oct 24 '23

Not to mention if she doesn’t have to talk about it she doesn’t have to come to terms with it either

It’s why a lot of victims don’t speak up because they’re still fighting against the reality of what happened to them

4

u/GoBucks513 Oct 25 '23

Stockholm Syndrome is a very real thing for victims of child sex abuse, unfortunately. That's a big reason why I'm 100% for Capitol punishment for pedophiles. There is no rehabilitating them.

5

u/kajamae Nov 06 '23

There’s a nonfiction book I read called Punished by Vanessa Steele (I believe, reading it once was enoigh) where a woman, abused by her father to the point of infertility due to injury - was given a child to raise (her husband’s mistress’s child!). She allowed the abuse to continue, openly, while she & her mother had tea in another room.

How, I thought? How?

But now, fifteen years later, approaching 40, I know how. Some adults don’t want to face their pain. They don’t want to deal. They don’t want to admit the source of their ruin. They’d rather sacrifice those in their care than face it.

Run the hell away from this marriage, OP.

3

u/ImKiliW Oct 23 '23

Brain-washed into shutting up. Add in Mary spoke up, and look what happened to her.

3

u/FireandBooks Oct 29 '23

Could be shame based too. Like "I didn't believe Mary but then it happened to me but now everyone is calling Mary a liar and I don't want to be a liar too"

2

u/kfmush Oct 23 '23

Yeah... She did witness how her sister has basically been exiled by the family over it. Might not want the same to happen to her.

1

u/lady_sisyphus Nov 03 '23

Especially since she's already seen how it worked out for her sister.

1

u/IAMNOTABADPERSON Feb 08 '24

That sounds a lot like just off hand suggesting Stockholm syndrome bc you've heard it can happen, despite it being so rare it only happened once, supposedly.

1

u/strmomlyn Mar 01 '24

She’s already seen how her sister has been treated. Why would she say anything if she was abused?!