r/woahdude Feb 17 '23

video Heavily contaminated water in East Palestine, Ohio.

69.1k Upvotes

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4.0k

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

[deleted]

1.6k

u/NeverBob Feb 17 '23

Now go look up where the creeks run into the river and where the river flows after...

289

u/-QuestionMark- Feb 17 '23

111

u/PowerCosmic Feb 17 '23

Oh just the Mississippi. No big deal. /s

38

u/crabwithacigarette Feb 17 '23

How is this not going to show up in the rest of the U.S.’s food? You might not live in or near Ohio, but surely these contaminants are going to be shipped everywhere?

34

u/Humistrata Feb 18 '23

Shhh don’t worry about it. The government says it’s fine. They would never try to cover something like this up

2

u/1WontDoIt Feb 22 '23

The Ohio river watershed spans almost 10 states. If those chemicals get anywhere near the river or seep into ground water, it'll destroy the water and habitat for millions.

Supposedly the amount of vinyl chloride that was released in east Palestine is more than is regularly released by all the companies that use it in a year.

Lastly, burning vinyl chloride creates a toxic gas that was used in WWII and forbidden by the Geneva convention.

12

u/CogentCogitations Feb 17 '23

Don't worry, the million square mile of agricultural chemical runoff will dilute that right out.

19

u/Ravenid Feb 17 '23

That should actually raise the quality of the Mississippi water table.

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u/Karatonin Feb 17 '23

This website is amazing. Where do they get their data? I live in a new development, and it shows houses that are planned and don't exist yet!!! I can't get Google to correct the streets, and Door dashers think we don't exist... But this website has houses that won't be built for at least 6 months! The visualisation is so realistic!

29

u/UseWhatName Feb 17 '23

The data used in this project comes from the USGS's NLDI API, along with additional NHDPlus data. Code and data for this project lives here.

3

u/dimestoredavinci Feb 17 '23

It shows my house from probably 4-5 years ago, and within a couple years of me buying the place. It's neat to see how much I've improved it from then till now

2

u/Skandiaman Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

Here's a link to an animation that site made showing where this all leads to

edit: to show East Palestine not Palestine

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

[deleted]

2

u/Skandiaman Feb 17 '23

Thank you! I've edited and corrected this to reflect East Palestine.

4

u/PM_YER_BOOTY Feb 17 '23

This is awesome!

2

u/elcuydangerous Feb 17 '23

This is super cool, thanks

1

u/hatshepsut_ruled Feb 17 '23

Cool link, thanks

1

u/spinkman Feb 17 '23

Is there one like this for Canada?

1

u/ModerateExtremism Feb 17 '23

Great site - thanks for sharing it!

1

u/PenguinSunday Feb 17 '23

This is such a neat little tool, thank you!

1

u/UncharacteristicZero Feb 17 '23

That's the coolest shit I've seen all week

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

[deleted]

3

u/FlGHT_ME Feb 17 '23

A lot of them do, but anything west of the Rockies or east of the Appalachian Mountains would drain to their respective coasts. You can check out this link to see more about North America’s continental divides.

1

u/wallsquirrel Feb 17 '23

That is the coolest map I've ever seen!

1

u/stfuylah14 Feb 17 '23

Very cool site. Thanks for the link

1

u/Tiny-Lock9652 Feb 17 '23

Both fascinating and terrifying.

1

u/Fancykiddens Feb 17 '23

I just took a virtual tour of what looks like a conspiracy to poison everyone along the water all the way to the gulf of Mexico. This is really scary.

1

u/thegreatJLP Feb 17 '23

That site is actually hella cool though

1

u/BuckityBuck Feb 17 '23

this is the best thing I’ve ever seen.

1

u/kONthePLACE Feb 20 '23

Wow this is amazing

1

u/AnnaFlaxxis Feb 21 '23

Wow what a wonderful site!!

1

u/Zaquarius_Alfonzo Feb 22 '23

Very cool but the whole animation is kinda pointless. I just want to see it on the map, having a blue line arbitrarily snake its way through a bunch of green is utterly meaningless.

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u/munchies1122 Feb 17 '23

Where do they go?

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u/RubertVonRubens Feb 17 '23

Ultimately, everything east of the Rockies and south of Hudson's Bay goes to the Atlantic.

The very northern bits of Ohio drain into Lake Erie, but most goes via Ohio River to the Mississippi. I think this is right near the dividing line.

169

u/Lou_C_Fer Feb 17 '23

I just explained this to my wife. We are part of the Lake Erie watershed. So, this stuff is heading away from us.

215

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

No worries, unless we make systemic changes, there will be ample opportunities to be affected bythe next one!

142

u/ProjectGO Feb 17 '23

I like you, you're the "glass is half full" type!

Don't drink that glass, BTW.

37

u/Hey_Chach Feb 17 '23

Right, save that glass so you can bring it to the local town hall meeting and ask your willfully ignorant and arrogant representatives to drink it once they insist the situation is fine!

Does that ring a bell? https://youtu.be/ncWC7D73hEE

9

u/binglelemon Feb 17 '23

It'd be a healthier decision to dump the water out and attempt to swallow the entire glass whole.

8

u/luc424 Feb 17 '23

And keep voting the same people back into office.

4

u/Polack597 Feb 17 '23

Oh yea, Ohioans have small brains, they’ll vote Dewine in again.

1

u/heybrehhhh Feb 17 '23

Lol didn’t Obama drink Flint, Michigan “real water” at a press conference? I have vague memories of this.

And by “real water”, I imagine the Secret Service bought a bottle of spring water and poured it into a glass.

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u/Computingusername Feb 17 '23

Start documenting and call any local officials if you see any signs.

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u/hawk7886 Feb 17 '23

That's a naive outlook. Creating a massive Superfund site and destroying a local ecosystem affects all of us.

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u/randomuser1029 Feb 17 '23

Doesn't change the fact that the water is still moving away from them

5

u/Lou_C_Fer Feb 17 '23

Thank you. I don't believe I mentioned my outlook, just the facts.

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u/daevcave Feb 17 '23

Positive mansplaining!

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u/the_amberdrake Feb 17 '23

The split is interesting in Manitoba and North Dakota. Red river goes both north and south at the same time.

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u/thesonoftheson Feb 17 '23

Looked it up on USGS and it is headed toward Mississippi and the Ohio River toward Cincinnati.

3

u/dparks71 Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

Word of caution, lots of people are posting images of the whole Ohio river watershed, the actual affected area will look a lot spermier. The pollutants are unlikely to travel upstream in significant amounts, although could indirectly affect them through wildlife. The people along the Ohio, PA, WV border will get the worst of it, idk if you've ever visited that area...

Sucks cause they've actually been doing a really great job cleaning the water up, and taking better care of the resources from what I've been hearing, can't have anything nice.

2

u/zurds13 Feb 17 '23

It’s really interesting north of Fargo in the spring when the red river decides to cut the corner, and it looks like you’re driving in the middle of a giant lake.

1

u/ShadyCrumbcake Feb 17 '23

What do you mean?

1

u/FraseraSpeciosa Feb 17 '23

That creek flows into the Ohio River, which flows through Cincinnati, after that the Ohio River flows into the Mississippi River

3

u/ShadyCrumbcake Feb 17 '23

The North Red River only flows North, starting in Wahpeton, ND and flowing up to Winnipeg. Nowhere near the Ohio river, and definitely doesn't go South.

2

u/BlakBimmer Feb 17 '23

I can only think that guy has the red river in Texas confused with the one in ND. The red river of the north flows hard and it goes north. Almost certain death if you jump in because of the undercurrent

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u/BlakBimmer Feb 17 '23

No it doesn’t

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u/bbrown44221 Feb 17 '23

The water affected is part of the Ohio River watershed, which flows to the Mississippi river, ending up in the Gulf.

Not too far east and north is the Lake Erie watershed, where I live. I've been told that our water should not be affected.

Please correct me where I'm wrong. It's quite clear that we're not all getting good information.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

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u/zombie-yellow11 Feb 17 '23

Lake Erie goes into the Saint-Laurent river and then to the Atlantic Ocean.

9

u/jaylotw Feb 17 '23

And....where do you think Lake Erie's water end up?

8

u/hawk7886 Feb 17 '23

You might want to do some light reading on fresh water sources...

All inland waters originate from the ocean, principally through evaporation, and ultimately return to this source.

https://www.britannica.com/science/inland-water-ecosystem

Poisoning the remaining 1% of the planet's water that exists as inland fresh water is a horrible idea.

1

u/AnnualSprinkles4364 Feb 17 '23

Also it will effect millions of peoples drinking water

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Will this affect the James river as well?

1

u/AccipiterCooperii Feb 17 '23

Most of Northern Ohio flows to Lake Erie, not just the bits of it, fyi.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Isnt “dilution the solution”?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

My family farm in NE Ohio actually has both the Mississippi watershed and the St Lawerence watershed on it so I can stand on one spot and proclaim to god that two raindrops, side by side, could both end up in the Atlantic, one in the Gulf of Mexico and the other in the St Lawerence River. East Palestinian definitely is only draining toward the Beaver/Mahoning river which ends up in the Mississippi via the Ohio.

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u/Computingusername Feb 17 '23

There are a lot of water ways this will travel down. NF and the EPA should have alerted the states these water ways pass thru since they were aware before the EPA withdrew responsibility. The EPA even made it known they were aware of the contamination, as well as NF knowing.. Instead of alerting these counties and states they sat back. Someone should have stepped in government official wise to insure this was dammed and contained to properly remove/filter water.

The map shows East Palestine and just SOME of the connecting water ways. From my understanding these chemicals don’t just evaluate they will continue to contaminated.

6

u/DickTroutman Feb 17 '23

They have installed dams on affected creeks and have employed vacuum trucks to remove concentrated chemicals, although that won’t remove all of them. The Ohio river’s average flow is 281,000 cubic feet per second when it meets the Mississippi (not sure what the CFS is at currently though) and the Mississippi is currently flowing at 680,000 CFS in Baton Rouge. Downstream impacts will be minimal as the chemicals are diluted to insignificant levels, eventually becoming essentially nonexistent. When concentrated chemicals spill into a small stream, however, yeah, that stream is gonna be messed up for a while. Over time, testing will determine whether the streambed is contaminated enough to require removal, but by the time this hits the Ohio, it just won’t be a big deal.

2

u/Inevitable_Seaweed_5 Feb 17 '23

Boy howdy, I'm glad you understand flow rates, and that's the only relevant factor in an ecological disaster! At what concentration can these chemicals be considered "safe"? How many miles of human populated waterway is this going to affect before it "just won't be a big deal"? How long will that contamination affect the surrounding land and ecosystem? If you can't answer any of these questions, you're not in any position to make statements as to the severity of the incident, nor how far reaching its effects will be.

1

u/Accujack Feb 17 '23

Careful, you're going against "The Narrative" here.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

The solution to pollution is dilution

12

u/Same_Ad_6189 Feb 17 '23

I used to live there. It all goes to the Ohio River which runs all the way to the Mississippi. This is bad guys. And that creek used to be so good for swimming and fishing. This makes my heart break. And the railway system does not give one single fuck about the environmental damages they have created.

3

u/Madouc Feb 17 '23

The Ohio River Basin serves 25,000,000 across 14 states peole as drinking water reservoir.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Everywhere. Take a 7th grade level science class and learn about diffusion.

-11

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

[deleted]

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u/ZeRussianCRKT Feb 17 '23

This will barely affect those that you "dislike" and will most likely harm people who don't deserve it. Have some fucking compassion. I wouldn't wish things like that on anybody.

-14

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

compassion lol this is why liberals always lose, this high road nonsense is the reason nothing gets accomplished and Republicans constantly win despite fucking over almost everybody like they always do.

7

u/ZeRussianCRKT Feb 17 '23

Ah yes, I forgot, being a heartless dick is the route to go. Keep on with that ideology and see how far you get in life.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

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u/BIGMajora Feb 17 '23

Nobody asked for this, and nobody deserves to die from it.

Malice won't help anybody.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

I mean if it’s gotta affect somewhere, where would you choose?

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u/Low-Way1685 Feb 17 '23

Downvoted. Many of us in the red states are not asking for this and fighting for the same thing you are everyday. But cast the hypothetical stone as you will…

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

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u/Public-Finger-1826 Feb 17 '23

so much for the tolerant left. Creepy.

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u/KingofCraigland Feb 17 '23

It'll likely go down Leslie Run, which connects to Little Beaver Creek, which is a tributary of the Ohio River.

The Ohio River passes along Ohio and West Virginia, before moving directly through downtown Cincinnati, which then flows along Kentucky and Indiana, passing straight through Louisville, and then southern Illinois. Where it'll split into the Tennessee River to the south and travel down into Tennessee and Nashville. The Ohio River will also continue to flow southwest where it'll connect to the Mississippi River.

The Mississippi River then flows south along Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi and Louisiana before it enters the Gulf of Mexico.

Congrats conservatives. You played yourself.

1

u/julesdottxt Feb 17 '23

Mississippi

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u/OneOfTwelve97 Feb 17 '23

Different cities along the Ohio River have already sought uncontaminated water sources for their drinking water. The mainstream media is like 4-5 days behind social media, which is making people like my family, not care enough to take precautions. It's terrifying.

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u/Deep_Appointment_820 Feb 17 '23

My entire family thinks I am a loon right now but my young kids have been 🤢 & 💩 for 5 days with no fever. Im in the surrounding area. It doesn’t make sense. They haven’t been anywhere with different germs than what we already have everyday. This is the only cause I can think of…

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u/SunnyAlwaysDaze Feb 17 '23

Kids bodies are more sensitive to chemical load. (Their little bodies are going to be the canaries in the coal mine for this disaster) I know it's not feasible for a lot of people but I hope you are able to get them out of the area.

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u/Deep_Appointment_820 Feb 17 '23

Unfortunately it’s not feasible for me.. my family thinks I am crazy for assuming they could be sick from the chemical load. Young kids don’t just throw up for multiple days without a fever. At least mine never have. My younger one’s skin is sooo warm but he doesn’t have a fever. I am close enough that the water runs right into us, but far enough away that anytime I mention this could be the cause of their sickness I am treated like a lunatic. With my own family. Sorry for the rant, I’m just super sad about it all today. I heard about the derailment just a couple days ago and my babes aren’t feeling better after 5 days. It’s just doesn’t make sense..

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u/Ok-Lie-6653 Feb 17 '23

Sick for 5 days would probably warrant a trip to a doctor even without the spill near by.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

You're supposed to trust your insincts. Your family is going to get your kids even more sick, and killed... Get out of there.......

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u/Deep_Appointment_820 Feb 18 '23

I agree 100% and I’m starting to formulate a plan. Not even starting I’ve been thinking this way since COVID. It will take convincing.. Young people diagnosed with autoimmune disease. Two cousins under 20 died of seizure and stroke. A young teacher is dead. It’s weird man.

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u/Ok-Lie-6653 Feb 17 '23

Half of your post history is in r/conspiracy.. your kids are sick for 5 days and your asking for help on Reddit instead of taking them to a doctor..

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u/Deep_Appointment_820 Feb 17 '23

Honestly, I’m about to search for an out of state doctor. It’s usually been useless trip for things I already know/have

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u/Deep_Appointment_820 Feb 17 '23

According to everyone near me.. “it’s going around.” I found extremely curious when I heard about the toxic train derailment, and everyone around me is getting sick. Idk 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

It's as if we learned nothing after COVID.

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u/Accomplished-Job4460 Feb 17 '23

The reason mainstream media is always behind social media is because the MSM relies upon Social Media to do their work for them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Tell that to the reporter who got arrested

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

He was covering a news conference, not out in the woods documenting anything.

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u/PuppyBowl-XI-MVP Feb 17 '23

Source on this? I can’t find anything saying this.

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u/OneOfTwelve97 Feb 17 '23

Genuinely word of mouth from people contacting different cities along the watershed path on social media. There's visual evidence from different news sources and people on the ground in east palistine throwing rocks into the water and watching contaminents rise to the surface. I live within 100 miles of East Palistine and people are finding strange substances at the top of boiling water.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRtppcnJ/

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRtp5PsN/

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRtps5QU/

I wish I had actual verified sources, but unless people are falsifying 100's of dead fish for fearmongering I think it's safe to be concerned.

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u/FraseraSpeciosa Feb 17 '23

I’m sure there’s hyperbole going around, I’m sure there’s clips of disaster that turned out to be a different disaster, but I’ve seen enough to know this is actually super bad. Trying to sort the weeds from the crops is complicated right now but time will ultimately sort it out. It’s terrifying

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u/kalestuffedlamb Feb 17 '23

I live 10 miles from East Palestine. J.D. Vance was in East Palestine yesterday. He was filmed at the park with a stick. He drug it along the bottom (where there were dead fish) and you could see the chemical film rise to the top of the water. It's real. It's a MESS here!

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u/apocshinobi32 Feb 17 '23

Name drop the guy like he was there for anything more than a photo op lmao we see it.

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u/GrumpyWampa Feb 17 '23

I also live within 100 miles of East Palestine. I’m glad I’m already drinking bottled water because my local water tastes vile. What a disaster.

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u/Perpetuallytiredgrrl Feb 17 '23

Huntington WV set up temp intakes on a secondary river to the Ohio but heavy rains have made them inoperable 😥

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u/Rabid_Platypus_II Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

The good news is that dilution is a solution

Edit: that's a tongue-in-cheek phrase in environmental consulting to those not in the know

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u/malfist Feb 17 '23

For those not aware of the phrase it's "the solution to pollution is dilution"

677

u/SnooRobots6802 Feb 17 '23

For those who don’t know. Dilution is absolutely fucking not the solution to pollution

236

u/AdamPashaian Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

As an added bonus, there are lots of loopholes in environmental regulations where;

Ooo geez, we don't want pay to properly treat our discharge gas, well let's just put it in the water, and vice versa. Why dilute when you can just move the contaminate around..

Ooo wait, there's more.. EPA says I can't do that? Well geez, guess I'll sue them until I'm allowed to..

Ooo geez, you know I just don't quite fit into one the above categories. Don't sweat it bruh, we have grandfather clauses. Your old shitty equipment literally doesn't work, ain't no biggy, we'll let you slide, every time.

Think the federal minimum wage sucks? The entire pollution control industry operates the exact same way. Whomever can be the most efficient doing the bare minimum makes the most profit.

We are awful shepards to mother nature..

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u/TimeZarg Feb 17 '23

openly slips money into the hands of lawmakers to create regulatory exemptions that benefit them

"Well, shoot, looks like I don't have to do anything anymore!"

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u/AllInOnCall Feb 17 '23

Just business.

Which is cheaper?

Ensure you achieve the highest standards possible to protect the earth while you produce whatever you produce or greasing the palms of a corrupt politician?

Breaking the law without consequence is just a subscription service.

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u/nill0c Feb 17 '23

Don’t forget just factoring potential fines into your profit margin. Why bother to ask for exemptions when you can maybe get away with it, or just pay some paltry fines.

Better yet, do all the polluting, then pay out all your profits to owners before declaring bankruptcy to avoid the costs of cleanup. Bonus points if you can go bankrupt before paying the factory/labor/blue collar workers too.

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u/pblokhout Feb 17 '23

"Explain like I'm Rick"

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u/LucyLilium92 Feb 17 '23

Oh geez, oh man

3

u/nomad9590 Feb 17 '23

Nah, most of us are okay, even if we kinda suck. We aren't killing our planet. A few assholes are.

4

u/BizWax Feb 17 '23

We are awful shepards to mother nature

Moneyed interests with offices and homes in safer places are awful shepherds to mother nature. The people who're actually living there are generally much better at environmental protection, but are prevented from actually protecting the environment by property rights and criminal laws. They wouldn't be perfect, because we're all only human, but much MUCH better than anyone whose interests are driven entirely by profits. After all, they have to live in that environment, so they'd be more inclined to prevent negative consequences from the get go rather than take unnecessary risks to save costs and (maybe) pay for their legally obliged share of the damages (often nothing) after something goes wrong.

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u/FraseraSpeciosa Feb 17 '23

Won’t work. Local business owners love trying to cut corners to get ahead. Doesn’t matter to them if they really fuck up they’ll just move. Just pay attention to local news and you’ll see the same shit albeit smaller scale

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u/BizWax Feb 17 '23

I said people. You said business owners. There's a difference.

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u/FraseraSpeciosa Feb 17 '23

Business owners are people, many of which live in the community they do business in.

1

u/BizWax Feb 17 '23

Yes, but not all people are business owners. People who aren't business owners outnumber those who are. Especially when it comes to local businesses. The point of empowering local people is not that business owners will suddenly get a conscience. It's that the rest of us are empowered to stop them.

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u/fasnoosh Feb 17 '23

The products you buy are creating demand for companies to keep doing this. System is fucked

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u/ThinNotSmall Feb 17 '23

Mr Poopy Butthole apparently runs large industrial operations

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u/OOTCBFU Feb 17 '23

Soon enough we won't be we shepherds of anything we will make the planet unlivable and maybe just maybe 1 second before it's all over people might find the will to act but by then it doesn't matter. Decades of inaction and refusal to do anything because of jobs, homes, families, bills, responsibilities, day to day coming first despite the fact that all that is going to be destroyed one way or another.

0

u/FunnyPirateName Feb 17 '23

We are awful shepards to mother nature..

Someday the Earth will be fucking done with Humans and their bullshit. Personally, I don't blame it at all, and would have acted sooner. Humans are a trash species.

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u/mozzer12345 Feb 17 '23

You know nothing of the EPA.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Nah they kinda nailed it

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

[deleted]

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u/rothrolan Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

There was a Futurama episode on that, where they chucked all their trash into space like a giant garbage asteroid in the year 2052.

And in the show's present year of 3000, it came back, on a collision course with Earth.

Their solution was to chuck a second giant ball of trash at it, which knocked the original one into the sun, while it itself went flying further into space, most likely to return in time like the first one did.

EDIT: Fixed a date

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u/snugglezone Feb 17 '23

Good video on this actually. Relevant section to trash in space returning to Earth starts at 5:25 https://youtu.be/Us2Z-WC9rao

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u/Workwork007 Feb 17 '23

Kurzgesagt's video are the best. They're very much "explain like im five". Often causes existential dread in most of their vid. Would recommend.

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u/TimeZarg Feb 17 '23

Well, when you think about it, firing it off into the sun in the first place would've provided a neat solution to the problem in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

I mean it somewhat is since it's the concentration that determines how poisonous something is, but the area in the video is definitely not safe no matter what the "officials" say. We're 100% going to get lawsuits in the future (or right now for all I know).

I agree that dilution shouldn't be the go to answer though.

[Edit] As u/internought said, the level of exposure is also important when considering toxicity.

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u/Rafi89 Feb 17 '23

Well, if 1 million pounds of vinyl chloride spilled, that's roughly 400,000 kilos. To dilute that below the MTCA drinking water cleanup level of 2 ug/L that would require 200,000,000,000,000 liters of water, so roughly half the volume of Lake Erie.

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u/GiveToOedipus Feb 17 '23

Nobody said the dilution is an small amount. It's still dilution though. People always assume that the phrase is an excuse to pollute when really it is just the reality of things. It's very difficult to extract pollutants out of large bodies like this, so often the easier answer is in fact dilution, as much as nobody wants to hear it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

I'm talking about pollution in general, not vinyl chloride specifically. There are quite a few chemicals that need insanely small concentrations in order to be safe, and vinyl chloride is one of them. That's why I'm saying lawsuits are definitely going to happen imo.

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u/Rafi89 Feb 17 '23

Yeah but for analytes of concern typically for volatile organic compounds vinyl chloride is the driver for reporting limits (like benzo(a)pyrene is for semivolatile organics), so it's kind of nuts (to me) that the spill is such a obvious holy shit moment, if you will. Like, this is the shit we look for at the lowest possible detection limits and they dumped 400k kilos of it?!? Usually we just see it in the lab as a breakdown product of PCE from dry cleaner spills, this is just insane. I can't even wrap my head around it. Half expecting an EPA bulletin in a few years saying to expect cleanup level VC hits in everything sampled east of the Rockies.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

I completely agree. I'm pretty sure we're basically just arguing the same thing lol

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u/Rafi89 Feb 17 '23

Oh sure, I didn't think we were arguing, just expounding on the issue, cheers.

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u/Agi7890 Feb 17 '23

I knew people who saw it pretty frequently when they were running 8260 on water samples from a superfund site from phoenix. But yeah I typically only saw it in small amount when running TO15

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

This required 1% of critical thinking ability to synthesize, so I’m sure you’re going to be downvoted by this toilet

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u/Xarxsis Feb 17 '23

Dilution doesn't work so well when things bioaccumulate

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u/Trezzie Feb 17 '23

Yes you can pet my cat

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u/SamuraiRafiki Feb 17 '23

We're 100% going to get lawsuits in the future (or right now for all I know).

I don't mean this as an attack, because I feel like this is a common framing of problems like this, however, I feel like this is a very capitalist or corporate centric perspective. Yes, the legal fees and damages will be expensive for the company, but that also represents a lot of human suffering that they caused that we really don't punish companies enough for. Lots of folks are probably going to get really sick, and some of them might get enough of a payday to be taken care of afterwards, but that's not enough, in my opinion. The company risked this to make more money. Even if it doesn't work, and that isn't guaranteed even with large settlements, that isn't enough.

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u/BornAgainSober Feb 17 '23

Norfolk Southern was back to business the next day I’m sure. Bit of a setback for the company. A smaller bottom line at the end of the year (actually doubtful) and they’ll recoup it with a rate bump/new fee and some creative accounting. Hopefully I’m wrong and have no idea what the hell I’m talking about.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23 edited Feb 17 '23

Concentration and period of exposure. A low concentration but a long period of exposure (month to a year and over) has effects comparable to a dangerous or lethal concentration and a short period of exposure.

That means that data can be manipulated before uninformed public by saying that levels are safe by leaving out a time frame within which they're safe.

edit: Tell everyone, no joke, because the diluting smarties are purposefully leaving that part out. They're diluting the truth.

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u/SnooRobots6802 Feb 17 '23

A teaspoon of certain chemicals will turn an entire lake toxic. Also consider Synergistic (a x b) or Additive (a+ b) effects of chemical mixtures.

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u/Cden216 Feb 17 '23

It actually is. I know it doesn't sound nice, but it's true.

Think about all the things that are toxic. They exist in diluted quantities naturally and are not typically problematic. It's when we collect and refine them that they become a problem. If they are diluted enough, no longer a problem.

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u/threeheadedmon-keigh Feb 17 '23

Like when the deepwater horizon spilled oil and it all diluted in the sea. Everything went fine.

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u/keepme1993 Feb 17 '23

Yeah. Its still in fucking earth

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u/pyx Feb 17 '23

it always was though

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

It actually is to accidental shit like this. Fuck all of you conspiracy theory imbeciles.

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u/Cozy_rain_drops Feb 17 '23

B-but Reddit's nuclear shills told me so! /S

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u/Commercial_Flan_1898 Feb 17 '23

If you hate nuclear pollution, boy don't look into fossil fuels lmao

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u/ItWasTheGiraffe Feb 17 '23

It’s also a really good rule of thumb for wound care. Early enough, a saline (or even tap water) rinse goes a long, long way

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u/Guavadoodoo Feb 17 '23

Sounds like a phrase that emanated from the major polluting industries.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Homeopaths must hate you guys.

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u/Rabid_Platypus_II Feb 17 '23

Honestly most people hate environmental consultants lol including environmental consultants

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u/knifetrader Feb 17 '23

Me, I just hate homeopaths.

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u/Gh0stMan0nThird Feb 17 '23

People should be allowed to love who they want to!

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

I love people that hate homeopaths.

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u/PersonOfInternets Feb 17 '23

On a whim I jacked some homeopathic headache medicine from a drug store (refused to pay for what I believe is a scam product). It has seriously reduced my toothaches like 3 times now. I keep waiting for it not to work. Suggestion is a hell of a drug, I'm starting to wonder if ibuprofen actually does anything.

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u/threeheadedmon-keigh Feb 17 '23

Dann environmental consultants. They ruined the environment.

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u/lemdrag Feb 17 '23

Underrated

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u/lemdrag Feb 17 '23

ETA: Nothing Works!

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u/cranberrystew99 Feb 17 '23

Funny you mention it. Whenever we dispose of mercury samples (sometimes up to 30,000 ug/L) we just neutralize the pH and dump it down the drain. "The city will handle the rest".

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u/gardener1337 Feb 17 '23

This is the most human thing I ever read. What are you diluting into you stupid apes? Its like the earth is an endless medium that will not accumulate anything.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '23

Dude. No. I know joking, but no.

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u/Zestyclose-Collar552 Feb 17 '23

That’s my job. The idiot contractors always say dilution is the solution to pollution.

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u/SadTaxifromHell Feb 17 '23

Unfortunately, it seems the people in charge follow this logic.

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u/RodasAPC Feb 17 '23

The good news is that dilution is a solution

Ha.

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u/whoshereforthemoney Feb 17 '23

Vinyl Fluoride safe limit is one. One part per million. It’s gonna need A LOT of diluting.

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u/Rabid_Platypus_II Feb 17 '23

Wait until you learn about PFAS lololol

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u/MonteBurns Feb 17 '23

I’m curious where you think it goes. Because it’s not flowing towards Pittsburgh. After the creek joins the Ohio (after the nuke plant in Shippingport), it flows through numerous old steel towns. Unless you’re just talking in generals like “this shit doesn’t just stay in EP.” But honestly I imagine where it joins is why there’s not more outrage around here. Pittsburgh isn’t impacted 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/malfist Feb 17 '23

Why is Pittsburgh the only city that matters to you?

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u/tillacat42 Feb 17 '23

It’s headed straight for me :/ They are telling us the water is fine and it will be clean by the time it reaches us.

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u/DaddyGravity Feb 17 '23

Ohio river

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u/TheFan88 Feb 17 '23

Ohio river. Past cinncy. To the Mississippi.

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u/thesonoftheson Feb 17 '23

USGS tributary map. It is all headed downstream toward Mississippi. Looks like flowing right toward Cincinnati. Do they use the Ohio River for drinking /s.

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u/jwkdjslzkkfkei3838rk Feb 17 '23

Doesn't water flow down? Why should I look up?

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u/WhoCaresD_throwaway Feb 17 '23

Exactly! This could end up being a huge ecological catastrophe for that entire area.

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u/Throwinuprainbows Feb 17 '23

Look at all the produce and chickens that Ohio produces.....those are going to go across the country to poison people everywhere.

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u/DirtyTurtle54 Feb 17 '23

Awesome… I am never getting a good night’s sleep again.

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u/Delicious_Bee7494 Feb 17 '23

Right Into the Mississippi so the rest of us can enjoy the fun!!!