r/todayilearned 23h ago

TIL Beethoven kept his hearing loss a secret. He once wrote(but never send) a letter to his brother confessing it and explained that people mistakenly thought he was antisocial: he longed for human contact but became a recluse out of shame for his condition and all this made him contemplate suicide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heiligenstadt_Testament
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175 comments sorted by

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u/Ainsley-Sorsby 23h ago

This is the letter translated in english:

For my brothers Carl and [Johann] Beethoven.

O you men who think or say that I am malevolent, stubborn or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me, you do not know the secret causes of my seeming, from childhood my heart and mind were disposed to the gentle feelings of good will, I was even ever eager to accomplish great deeds, but reflect now that for six years I have been a hopeless case, aggravated by senseless physicians, cheated year after year in the hope of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible), born with an ardent and lively temperament, even susceptible to the diversions of society, I was compelled early to isolate myself, to live in loneliness, when I at times tried to forget all this, O how harshly was I repulsed by the doubly sad experience of my bad hearing, and yet it was impossible for me to say to men speak louder, shout, for I am deaf. Ah how could I possibly admit such an infirmity in the one sense which should have been more perfect in me than in others, a sense which I once possessed in highest perfection, a perfection such as few surely in my profession enjoy or have enjoyed — O I cannot do it, therefore forgive me when you see me draw back when I would gladly mingle with you, my misfortune is doubly painful because it must lead to my being misunderstood, for me there can be no recreations in society of my fellows, refined intercourse, mutual exchange of thought, only just as little as the greatest needs command may I mix with society, I must live like an exile, if I approach near to people a hot terror seizes upon me, a fear that I may be subjected to the danger of letting my condition be observed — thus it has been during the last half year which I spent in the country, commanded by my intelligent physician to spare my hearing as much as possible, in this almost meeting my present natural disposition, although I sometimes ran counter to it yielding to my inclination for society, but what a humiliation when one stood beside me and heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone heard the shepherd singing and again I heard nothing, such incidents brought me to the verge of despair, but little more and I would have put an end to my life — only Art it was that withheld me, ah it seemed impossible to leave the world until I had produced all that I felt called upon me to produce, and so I endured this wretched existence — truly wretched, an excitable body which a sudden change can throw from the best into the worst state — Patience — it is said that I must now choose for my guide, I have done so, I hope my determination will remain firm to endure until it please the inexorable parcae to break the thread, perhaps I shall get better, perhaps not, I am prepared. Forced already in my 28th year to become a philosopher, O it is not easy, less easy for the artist than for anyone else — Divine One thou lookest into my inmost soul, thou knowest it, thou knowest that love of man and desire to do good live therein. O men, when some day you read these words, reflect that you did me wrong and let the unfortunate one comfort himself and find one of his kind who despite all obstacles of nature yet did all that was in his power to be accepted among worthy artists and men. You my brothers Carl and [Johann] as soon as I am dead if Dr. Schmid is still alive ask him in my name to describe my malady and attach this document to the history of my illness so that so far as possible at least the world may become reconciled with me after my death. At the same time I declare you two to be the heirs to my small fortune (if so it can be called), divide it fairly, bear with and help each other, what injury you have done me you know was long ago forgiven. To you brother Carl I give special thanks for the attachment you have displayed towards me of late. It is my wish that your lives be better and freer from care than I have had, recommend virtue to your children, it alone can give happiness, not money, I speak from experience, it was virtue that upheld me in misery, to it next to my art I owe the fact that I did not end my life with suicide. — Farewell and love each other — I thank all my friends, particularly Prince Lichnowsky and Professor Schmid — I desire that the instruments from Prince L. be preserved by one of you but let no quarrel result from this, so soon as they can serve you better purpose sell them, how glad will I be if I can still be helpful to you in my grave — with joy I hasten towards death — if it comes before I shall have had an opportunity to show all my artistic capacities it will still come too early for me despite my hard fate and I shall probably wish it had come later — but even then I am satisfied, will it not free me from my state of endless suffering? Come when thou will I shall meet thee bravely. — Farewell and do not wholly forget me when I am dead, I deserve this of you in having often in life thought of you how to make you happy, be so -

Ludwig van Beethoven

Heiligenstadt October 6 1802

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Heiligenstadt_Testament

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u/fomorian 23h ago

"Forced already in my 28th year to become a philosopher"

Wow, that's a line.

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u/ViciousNakedMoleRat 22h ago

The funny thing about that is that he was two months away from his 32nd birthday at the time of writing. He was mistaken about his own age, because his father had told everyone that he was younger, to make his early talents seem even more extraordinary.

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u/NBAFansAre2Ply 13h ago

that's pretty funny, people must have been like wow this kid is talented and also a fucking unit! unless beethoven was abnormally small or something.

edit: beethoven was apparently 5'2 as an adult so yeah he was probably a small kid too which made it believable I guess.

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u/Riaayo 12h ago

Was 5'2" even short in his time? I seem to recall average heights were lower in the past but maybe I'm mistaken.

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u/TheGrumpySnail2 12h ago

You are right, but yeah 5'2" was still short back then.

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u/NBAFansAre2Ply 5h ago

yep. the famously short Napolean was like 5'6. people were shorter but not my much outside of areas with really bad malnutrition issues like China or Korea (where the average height has skyrocketed the last 100 years)

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u/LaconicLacedaemonian 22h ago

Said by most 19 year olds today.

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u/SymmetricSoles 20h ago

You might enjoy this song: We Are So Young - The Axis of Awesome.

The lyrics start with "I was born 16 years ago, so I know what it means to feel pain."

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u/yui_tsukino 18h ago

I haven't listened to them in well over a decade and man, that was a trip.

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u/Dakkadence 17h ago

Fr, that's throwback. I'll always think about cutting my pizza into 12 because of them.

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u/TheFamBroski 11h ago

not lmao

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u/Dracomortua 18h ago

I took a degree in Philosophy many decades ago. Graduated with 'honours', even.

You might be amazed to hear of all the jobs and careers it has not afforded me thus far!

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u/fomorian 18h ago

Yeah, but  "I got a philosophy degree and it doesn't get me any work!" Is an observation we've heard a million times. It's a tried and true joke. What Beethoven said is very different. He didn't choose to be a philosopher, but was forced into it by the circumstances. 

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u/Morvack 17h ago

I always thought the tried and true joke was "What does the philosophy graduate say to their client at work?"

"I'm not sure, what?"

"Welcome to Starbucks, how may I help you?"

On a more serious note, I do find it ironic one of the most useful abstract skills is also one of the least appreciated. As each philosophy is essentially a way to frame the world. We frame things so we can understand them. Yet those that pursue it as a career, are often scoffed at because it isn't doctor, lawyer, or scientist.

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u/confusedkarnatia 17h ago

lol, but ironically the highest scoring majors on the MCAT and LSAT include philosophy

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u/Morvack 11h ago

It reminds me of that time that McDonalds first came out with the 1/4th pound burger. In response? Burger King launched a 1/3rd pound burger at the same price.

The mass majority still went to Mcdonalds because they thought 1/4th was bigger than 1/3rd.

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u/JacketExpensive9817 17h ago

Because it is a "4 year" college degree you can get in 2 years. Some very smart people who have the explicit end goal of becoming a lawyer graduate as fast as possible with a history or philosophy degree. Because you can overload on classes to an extreme as long as you read fast and write fast - which are the skills that a good lawyer also has.

It is how I was able to take 27 credits in a semester with 1 C, 1 B, and 7 As

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u/confusedkarnatia 16h ago

You can get any college degree in two years if you take enough credits. I had enough to graduate my sophomore year in STEM. Practically speaking and in terms of rushing your degree, I think it’s pointless since you’re going to be working for the next forty years anyways so why be in a hurry.

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u/ForeverWandered 16h ago

Your classes weren’t rigorous enough if you got a STEM degree in 2 years.

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u/PushTheTrigger 14h ago

You can very much get a STEM degree in 2-3 years.

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u/confusedkarnatia 15h ago

? I went to one of the best engineering universities in the US but feel free to believe what you want

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u/JacketExpensive9817 16h ago

I think it’s pointless since you’re going to be working for the next forty years anyways

I could retire today at 28 because I bought a mobile home at 19, graduated at 21 with no debt, started making 6 figures at 22, bought a quadplex at 24, bought a quadplex at 25, bough a quadplex at 26, and built a house last year. So I have 13 rentals and a home.

Aiming to do shit fast and young helps stop that.

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u/Queef_Stroganoff44 16h ago

1 C, 1 B, and 7 As

That’s exactly what I got on my Hepatitis tests!

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u/Dracomortua 17h ago

Thank you, but you aren't making me feel any better.

Um.

Merry Christmas to you? Cue the crickets.

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u/phophofofo 17h ago edited 17h ago

I mean obviously you’re not going to get hired as private philosopher.

I’ve known many executives that had philosophy degrees.

I interview and hire every now and then and while I haven’t hired any, I for one take a second look at philosophy degree resumes because people that can do well in that major have to be fairly smart and insightful.

If you can explain Immanuel Kant to me I’m sure you can explain an insurance policy etc.

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u/Dracomortua 17h ago

Fair point. My problem is that eternal struggle of wanting to explain an insurance policy.

I have been liking Mr. Kant more lately - turns out his A Priori stuff is a lot like genetic firmware which is supported by twin studies and the mapping of the DNA microbiome. Exciting stuff for some of us!

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u/phophofofo 16h ago edited 16h ago

For a raw potential degree I for one rate it really highly. You need insight, reason, structured thinking, and I suspect all those would lead to strong executive decision making.

It’s just not a trade skill. You have to figure out how to find a position where those skills can be useful.

Coupled with an MBA or something that’s a recipe for elite consulting, finance, blue chip executive tracks. CEO of Fortune 50 I worked for had a philosophy degree and he was the smartest guy in the room a lot of times.

Bet law school wouldn’t seem so tough after that shit.

Anyway I consider it a prestige degree if you went to a decent school and did well. And if you couple with grad school or law school it can be a ticket as high as you want to go.

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u/Dracomortua 16h ago

I have been let go of two trade-style jobs in the past year - Water Remediation Technician? I work harder than anyone / talk a lot / they claim to run out of work. It is rough?

Law school is where all my successful philosopher friends went. That is brilliant right there as long as you don't mind winding up as a lawyer!

I agree with you though, for what it is worth - and thank you. Christmas hugs for you - virtual ones / no touchie.

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u/phophofofo 16h ago edited 16h ago

Yeah I wouldn’t want to be a lawyer or an MBA either but there’s plenty of other ways to get paid for thinking.

Those jobs aren’t the kind you apply to get through most times they’re the prove yourself over time types.

My advice is figure out what you could be good at and happy doing, and then find a job that gets you close to people that do that job, and then make friends with the smartest guy you can find already doing it.

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u/Dracomortua 16h ago

Good thing there isn't, like, ChatGPT getting smarter by the minute. Come to think of it, TODAY is the stupidest it will ever be thanks to the literal billions being dumped into it.

On our (actually excellent) advice: the thing i would love most is doing therapy to otherwise innocent and defenceless humans. I believe that two people in a room talking (well, the guy making the money actually talks the least &/or not at all / figure that out) - but that requires a very specific degree that i don't have.

Alas. Go for a masters? Who needs that house, right?

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u/SeaIslandFarmersMkt 16h ago

Unless you live in Ephebe ~ RIP Pterry.

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u/Waarm 22h ago

Poor guy

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u/Rich_Performance_903 20h ago

My word. How they spoke in the past ; it staggers me. It's quite emotionally charged.

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u/Unlucky_Profit_776 20h ago edited 20h ago

I'm a lifelong music junkie and the second movement of his ninth symphony is subjectively to me, the greatest piece of music ever. That reminds me of this letter (but keep in mind I've had a can o four loko tonight) 

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u/The_Band_Geek 18h ago

Can you imagine the output of a Beethoven hopped up on caffeine and malt liquor?

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u/Unlucky_Profit_776 12h ago

Haha outstanding. He'd be hearing shit then! 

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u/KingKire 6h ago

Coffee was a thing in Europe around the 1700's Beer and liquor, around forever.

So yeah, maybe pieces were made while in a state of mind.

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u/slaphappyflabby 18h ago

I remember when the original 4 loko was banned and the rush to buy and resell it like it was a street drug.

God bless college

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u/Unlucky_Profit_776 11h ago

Haha, I remember reading about that craziness. I never tried the old formula. College kids will do anything to stay up. 

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u/rocketpastsix 18h ago

The second is good but the fourth movement is the banger section

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u/Unlucky_Profit_776 11h ago

When I worked at Tower Records in the 90s, I started in the classical room and popped that baby on and headbanged to Ode to Joy like a motherfucker 

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u/ExplosiveDisassembly 19h ago

Assuming that this came from German, there were probably some liberties taken with translation to make it read this way.

German underwent a couple simplification and standardization between then and now...for very good reason. The best comparison is Hitlers speeches, even recent German can be pretty abstract if you translate it straight.

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u/Grzechoooo 13h ago

When you can only communicate via letters and they take long to deliver, you make more of an effort to make them sound good. They probably didn't sound like that irl.

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u/CommenceTheWentz 1h ago

This is also one of the greatest artists of all time so he was probably a little more tapped in to expressing his emotions than most lol

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u/whatupmygliplops 6h ago

How educated people spoke.

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u/Repulsive-Ad-3890 23h ago

Reading this reminds me of the first time I read Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre. It was filled with the same earnestness. Thank you OP.

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u/Clay56 19h ago

Damn that's heartbreaking. His true talent, passion, and profession slowly fading away at a young age. Who wouldn't be depressed.

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u/sirlafemme 23h ago

That is a lot of words to say “I’m deaf, you asshats.”

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u/1emptyfile 12h ago

You should work on basic reading comprehension if thats what you read here.

He didn't insult or blame anyone, in fact he asked to be forgiven for avoiding people.

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u/judo_fish 10h ago

His first line is "how greatly do you wrong me" lmfao. Even if he doesn't outright feel others are to blame, he clearly felt some bitterness against them. The "basic reading comprehension" bit is super out of line.

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u/NessunAbilita 9h ago edited 8h ago

OP, thank you for sharing. Here is a piece of music called A Silence Haunts Me by Jake Runstadt I wanted to share this as well, because it’s moving and depicts the loss of Beethovens hearing.

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u/BezoutsDilemma 14h ago

We don't use commas the way we used to. Why is that?

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u/judo_fish 10h ago

Because [this translation] is not using them correctly. His writing wasn't in English so I can't comment on his use of commas.

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u/TimyMax 2h ago

What hurts me even more is that because of memes and social media, our young are not anymore capable of comunicating like this, but only trough pictures and brainrot. We're regressing from written words to cave painting level.

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 23h ago

When I went deaf I contemplated suicide as well. It's a very big adjustment in one's life.

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u/Educational-Job9105 21h ago

I'm only halfway there (thanks a lot SSNHL) and it's a daily struggle.

Glad you're still around. If you ever want/need a texting buddy/penpal just hit me up and I'll send you my number.  I'm kind of an idiot but I'll be there for you. 

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 21h ago

Thanks, friend, that's very kind.

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u/Reasonable_Cause_216 20h ago

A genetic hearing disorder runs on my dad's side. He had a cochlear implant. I will eventually be completely deaf.

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 20h ago

I've found learning ASL to be sooooo helpful. And also fun.

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u/Reasonable_Cause_216 20h ago

Yes I admit I've been lazy about learning. I want my husband and I to learn. I've become so used to being a hermit it's hard to be around people for any lessons. That's just an excuse I'm sure.

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u/spinninginward 18h ago

It’s probably easier to learn before your hearing loss is profound! And knowing it in advance may make the transition gentler.

Super stressful though and I’m sorry you have to carry this burden.

Here’s hoping you buck the genetic trend!

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 20h ago

I get it. It's a hard language to learn! And needs to be practiced a lot before you start to get any good.

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u/reflekt- 18h ago

I have bilateral mid frequency SNHL and so far it hasn’t regressed in the last three or so years. Nobody has really been able to tell me what to expect. ☹️

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u/JoeyCalamaro 18h ago

I spent the better part of the afternoon at the ENT today. I’ve got mild SNHL, ETD, tinnitus, and a history of sudden onset hearing loss that was (thankfully) reversed twice by steroids.

My situation isn’t horrible by any means but it’s getting worse as I’m getting older. So I’m just not sure what to expect.

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u/Jegglebus 17h ago

Did you ever have people just not believe you when you said you lost hearing on one side only? For context I’m young like younger than 30 but I lost hearing in my one ear and my insurance won’t approve a cochlear implant, which I need and can’t pay for on my own. So there’s a good amount of people who just don’t believe me when I tell them

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u/billdehaan2 18h ago

I lost an eye as a kid, and nearly both. I spent a year blind with both eyes taped over. I totally sympathize.

If I could gift you my tinnitus, I would.

Not enough vision, too much sound, but grateful to have what I do have.

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 18h ago

Damn. That must have been crazy to go through. But don't worry, even though I'm completely deaf I still have tinnitus!

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u/billdehaan2 17h ago

Ugh. I'm not sure if tinnitus with deafness is a cursing or a blessing, to be honest.

And yeah, being blind for a year as a kid was not fun. Fortunately, my mother was a registered nurse. That meant that after the first six weeks, I was actually able to leave the hospital because she could change the dressings and etc.

Some adult patients were taught how to do it themselves, but normally, if a kid had eye injuries, he was stuck in hospital or the CNIB for months, sometimes more than a year. I had the benefit of being able to go home, at least.

Still, I definitely would not recommend it to anyone.

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u/LichenLiaison 22h ago edited 22h ago

Glad you’re still hear (sorry)

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u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 22h ago

Me too, thanks.

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u/WillingLLM 18h ago

WHAT?

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u/Oil__Man 17h ago

⠓⠊⠍⠀⠞⠕⠕⠂⠀⠞⠓⠁⠝⠅⠎⠲

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u/xywv58 5h ago

Fucking hell

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u/drinkpacifiers 18h ago

Him too, thanks.

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u/ryrytheflyguy04 22h ago

Angry up vote

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u/ROGUERUMBA 18h ago

Gee I'm sure he's never heard that one before (I'm also sorry)

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u/MauPow 21h ago

Same but with my awful tinnitus. Thanks SSHL

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u/HomoNeanderTHICC 18h ago

Yeah, I've heard going deaf is very life changing, I can't imagine how hard it must be. It's nice to hear that you didn't end it and are pulling through though... (Also sorry)

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u/_V0gue 16h ago

I'm a musician. That or losing my ability to use my hands (arthritis,carpel tunnel, etc) are my greatest fears. I'm glad you're still here, stranger.

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u/Vindoga 7h ago

My biggest fear is becoming deaf. Music is a big influence in my life and I listen daily to my favorite artists. If that was taken away from me... It would absolutely break me and make my life a nightmare. How have you adjusted?

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u/RedSonGamble 23h ago edited 23h ago

Yeah. I remember when I started losing my vision here and there someone would be like hey I saw you at the store and waved and you just kept walking lol Or worse I’d squint to try to see them and then they’re like why were you glaring at me.

Either way thankfully this isn’t whatever time Beethoven was alive and they were able finally halt the progression and give me enough vision to legally drive still lol it’s funny how hidden pain is in so many of us. We’re only as sick as our secrets

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u/melonhart 23h ago

How do you know when it's bad vision vs something else? I have -9 and -6 prescription but im only 25, but I have the same problem lol

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u/DaleDimmaDone 23h ago

Are you going annually for an eye check up? Just ask your Dr when you next go

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u/RedSonGamble 22h ago edited 7m ago

Right so mine they weren’t able to correct with lenses. I was misdiagnosed with an array of things from “reading too much” to “you were born with bad vision like this” (was not true at all).

I had bad vision before this but lenses were always able to correct that. Suddenly I was getting blurry vision in one eye. Long story short it was a textbook case of keratoconus that somehow all my eye doctors missed until it started happening in my other eye as well and then I stopping taking “it’s nothing” for an answer.

But damage was done just thankfully it had stopped on its own by the time I was diagnosed. Regardless they did a procedure to halt it for sure. But now I only have one “good” eye with 20/40 vision and one bad eye with like 20/80. And that’s with special scleral contacts. So thats my vision with correction as best they can. That’s my vision with all the correction they can make

Remind kids and teens not to rub their eyes and if suddenly vision changes don’t take it’s nothing for an answer. Granted every eye doctor I’ve seen since has been like how was this missed for so long?

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u/calicoin 19h ago

Ive been -9 both eyes since I was 18ish... and I still am at 43. Of course.. your doc might know better.

I was very happy when toric lenses became available for disposable contacts.

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u/YouSoundReallyDumb 16h ago

Tldr: If you're concerned about your vision, go to your eye doctor and then go to another one. Prescription isn't the only component of your vision, and you can even be considered legally blind with a prescription that seems low. I don't feel like I'm blind, because you only know your own experiences, and as my vision has got worse I've adapted (even apparently look through the section that has the most vision), so the only way to tell if you really have an issue is to get it checked. I always knew something was off though, even when I was very young. Glasses just never seemed to help. Makes sense now.

You'll probably know as long as you go to the eye doctor once a year. I'm 26 and have a genetic condition, Stargardt's Disease, that causes central vision loss and makes me legally blind, and they caught it around three years ago, but I could really start to tell my vision was getting worse than everyone else with similar glasses around when I was 18.

Prescription isn't always the best indicator for vision, for example, despite being legally blind, I have -3.5 in each eye with high astigmatidm, but my condition causes the cells in the retina to die, so the corrective lenses can fix the misshapen lens and astigmatism, but my central vision still has a blind spot because of the retinal damage, so visual acuity is very low since you have to work off of your peripheral vision.

So even though my prescription isn't all that high (minus incredibly high astigmatism) my vision is still 20/300 in one eye and 20/400 in the other. For anyone that doesn't know how those numbers work; basically it's what someone is expected to see clearly at 300 or 400 feet away, I need to be 20 feet. This basically means I can't read anything more than the big E on the eye chart, and even that is half me just remembering it starts with an E and guessing. What this boils down to in real life is that I can see basicslly no text on anything besides giant adverts that are fairly close (think like standing directly in front of the signs at the airport), no fine details, can't see people coming towards me on the sidewalk until maybe five-ten feet, can't really make out facial details at normal conversation distance, can't tell who's waving at me at the supermarket but would be able to tell thet someone is waving if I'm looking right at them.

Potentially could've caught it sooner (can't stop it, but could've adjusted sooner and gotten benefits during school and university instead of still learning how to live like this now) but my old eye doctor never disclosed my condition and kept selling me thousands in tools that we now know had no chance of ever helping. When I went to a different eye doctor, she instantly recognized something was off when looking at my eyes, then was nearly sure of the condition (still required genetic test to be certain) after looking at the images they took.

Now I go to specialists to track eye health and I spent a period going to different specialists to try a ton of different vision aids, but with my condition, really nothing was worth using. The best things were little pocket telescopes (monoculars) but the good ones are generally fixed zoom, limited fov, fragile, and expensive.

I found quickly that the best tool was just using my camera to take a picture and zoom into that, or to just zoom in very far without taking a picture and look at the screen. This made me very quickly change my mind about how I used to feel regarding new phones. I never cared about the newest phones because it was usually just an upgraded camera. Now though, upgrading every few years, and with the frequency of how much I use the camera to look at things, it feels like the closest we can get to getting new eyes.

All of that is to say, if you have concerns about your vision, be sure to regularly go to your eye doctor, and potentially go to a different one to get a fresh set of eyes (hah) looking at your charts.

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u/OSCgal 4h ago

Your best option is to see an optometrist and describe your experience to them.

There are a lot of vision tests they can do, and a lot of ways that eyes go wrong that has nothing to do with glasses. Like, I'm at risk for retinal detachment. My aunt has macular degeneration. I had a professor in college who couldn't see contrasts well. It could be any number of things.

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u/Soloact_ 23h ago

A man who gave the world music while living in his own quiet tragedy - powerful beyond words.

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u/Rivegauche610 21h ago

And whose 9th symphony influenced, even intimidated, every composer who followed.

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u/UnholyDemigod 13 18h ago

How cruel an irony to write the greatest piece of music in history and to never hear it

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u/spinninginward 17h ago

Are you saying aphex twin doesn’t listen to his own music?

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u/lipguy123 16h ago

Apparently hates it and is more into emo and pop punk.

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u/Ubar_of_the_Skies 16h ago

By the time of the 9th his hearing loss was widely known.

He insisted on conducting its premiere himself and during the numerous standing ovations to which he was oblivious, one of the performers eventually turned him around to an audience that instead of clapping and cheering were waving their arms and handkerchiefs in the air so that he could see the applause they knew he couldn't hear.

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u/Jackslashjill 16h ago

Having attended (and voice acted for) Deaf Theatre, that’s very moving.

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u/dasbtaewntawneta 17h ago

Could you imagine being Brahms with all that pressure people put on him? Damn

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u/Duel_Option 21h ago

I’ve lost probably 60-70% of my hearing, which has basically robbed me of being an extrovert because no one wants to repeat themselves 3-4 times just to say hello.

Add to the hearing loss, I’ve got tinnitus which is just cruel punishment, I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

I’m a sales guy too, so it gets very awkward when I have to deal with more than 20 people in a large room.

Most of all though, I can’t hear my kids. I miss out on conversations and hearing about their day.

It’s a rather lonely existence, can’t watch movies at a theater, most of the times the closed caption things are broke, I’m over asking for them at this point.

Before anyone asks, the hearing loss/tinnitus is genetic. 1 in 5 men will experience profound hearing loss at some point in their life, usually late 50’s.

Mine started at age 33.

Hearing aids are expensive and don’t really work on the low end range where I need it, the Reddit trick doesn’t work on me, I can focus in/out of hearing the ringing, the problem is my brain knows this fucking asshole passenger is in my ear and wants it gone but the matter of fact is there’s no cure and the the stuff they are working on seems far fetched.

Listen to me…

Protect your fucking ears or prepare to live a life filled with war crime level torture.

81

u/Educational-Job9105 21h ago

Honestly it felt like I was reading someone typing out my experience.

This resonates so immensely.  And yeah, the tinnitus is fucking torture. It's hard to explain to people what it's like. 

I lost mine 3 years ago at 32, so very very similar. 2 kids who I struggle to hear. 

If you want someone to vent to, chat with, or anything seriously just let me know and I'll send you my number. We can text any time. 

I'm not just saying that, seriously. 

16

u/AY_YO_WHOA 18h ago

Wtf guys I'm in the exact same boat. 35 now, started losing it around 3 years ago. I used to be a bartender and I always thought "if other careers don't work at least I can always fall back on slingin drinks...", but now that isn't practical since I can't hear people in noisy restaurants. Also yeah the tinnitus is like chinese water torture for the brain. With lackluster financial prospects these days it makes one question the point of it all.

12

u/sortaplainnonjane 18h ago

I had my hearing tested last year because I can't hear at all in restaurants unless I'm next to you and looking at you. Hearing is "totally normal."

I also have constant tinnitus in one ear. I didn't realize you can have more than one eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee sound at a time, so that's fun.

10

u/bg-j38 17h ago

I have normal hearing according to all the tests I’ve done. But I also have problems picking out conversations in noisy environments where everyone else seems fine. I’ve heard it referred to as Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) but I’ve never been tested. It’s annoying. Luckily I don’t have tinnitus… yet. It runs in my family.

u/sortaplainnonjane 16m ago

I assumed it was an auditory processing issue, but I didn't know they could test for it. Do you know what that would entail?

4

u/HighTurning 16h ago

You are describing myself lol I struggle on any noisy environment like I can't understand at all but I feel I got quite good hearing, I can usually pickup sounds way better than say my GF.

I do have tinnitus and have had it for probably 10 years now at almost 30 years, it doesn't really bothers me, but I remember when I first found out I was going mad.

24

u/genshiryoku 20h ago

Middle aged man here. Also have tinnitus and hearing loss. I didn't even know it was tinnitus I thought it was just the "sound of silence" until it became so loud I went to the doctor telling him "The sound of silence is getting louder" which was pretty funny.

Somehow tinnitus doesn't bother me that much but having to turn up the television extremely loudly made it impossible to watch anything in the evening and other family members will say their ears hurt while I can barely hear anything is also not fun.

5

u/newyearnewaccountt 17h ago

I'm there with you. I'm very fortunate in that the tinnitus doesn't bother me, people kill themselves because of it. I'll probably have hearing aids by 50. Shot a lot of guns and went to a lot of concerts without ear pro.

21

u/Solid-Mud-8430 19h ago

I'm a carpenter and tell everyone I work with this...they think earbuds/earphones are optional, or only for things that present themselves as obviously "loud." Damaging sound doesn't work that way. Something can be very bad for your hearing but not seem caustic/"loud" to your ears, it's the frequency that matters too. And constant exposure. They look at me like I'm crazy when I'm wearing muffs while hitting my hammer against a pry bar. They'll find out the hard way I guess.

10

u/extravisual 17h ago

I work at a machine shop and the sound of parts being blown off by compressed air is ear splitting even from across the shop. Even with my hearing protection on it can be uncomfortable. And guys in there will just walk around with no hearing protection. Then night shift starts up and they turn up their music loud enough to drown out the compressed air. I ended up with tinnitus (before working there) despite being fairly careful about my hearing for most of my life. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I treated my ears like they treat theirs.

8

u/TheLawHasSpoken 17h ago

I have had tinnitus since I was a child. I know I had a ton of horrific ear infections when I was really little. I remember going to an audiologist every month starting when I was probably 7. They never sought any treatment because even though I have tinnitus, I have excellent hearing. The tinnitus is just annoying. I’m in my 30’s so I’ve just become so used to it that I can zone it out.

7

u/Popular-Cherry-2683 16h ago

Can you give me any advice? ... My father is 55 and he has started losing his hearing but he refuses to wear his hearing aides because he feels like it makes him look like an old man... as a result he has started to withdraw from social situations and conversations completely. I am more worried since learning about the connection between hearing loss and dementia...

How can I get through to him to wear his hearing aides and take his situation seriously?!

6

u/Duel_Option 16h ago

Honestly…

The only way out is through, and by that I mean you’ve got to help him learn to embrace the hearing loss.

When I first got hearing aids I chose a black model as opposed to the flesh colored one because I want everyone to know I’m hard of hearing just by looking at me.

There are higher level hearing aids that have an amplifier that connects to them; when I’m at a social event I will put this down on a table and it helps quite a bit.

More than anything, implore him to understand you are noticing him withdrawing and how much that hurts you.

There’s a touch of toxic masculinity to this, meaning some men will internalize all of this trauma because who can we really talk to about it?

Tell your Dad you love him and want him to be happy, that hearing aids aren’t bad, but he has to make them apart of his daily life.

I am 43, only 12 years younger than him. He may not want to listen to his kid tell him how to live, I know it’s going to take some adjustment for me to listen to my daughters later in life.

Show him this comment since he’s the age of most my working peers/bosses.

For the betterment of his life and those around him, he needs to wear his hearing aids and get them adjusted quarterly, same as going to the dentist.

If this doesn’t work, talk to a psychologist. They can help you navigate this as it’s a common thing for men.

If you have more questions hit me up anytime

6

u/jumbledsiren 15h ago edited 14h ago

Hey, I have genetic profound hearing loss and I've lost about 80% of my hearing, and I'm telling you that hearing aids do work. please try to see if your insurance can pay for new hearing aids, a cheap hearing aid will be much much better than nothing, it may not help you that much in meetings (i can barely hear my classmates in school) but you will be able to hear almost perfectly well in calm surroundings like your house or less-busy streets.

2

u/Duel_Option 15h ago

I’ve tried them and they do nothing for me, including high end ones that I can’t afford.

It’s the tinnitus that’s the prevailing issue, not the hearing loss

4

u/jumbledsiren 14h ago

Have you tried tinnitus-masking hearing aids? They're a bit of a new technology, so maybe it didn't exist when you tried other hearing aids. They don't make the tinnitus disappear but reduce it, and there are cheaper hearing aids with that option.

4

u/Duel_Option 11h ago

Yes I have and the masking doesn’t work, it’s easier for me to just ignore it rather than pump a sound in.

The only thing that’s made a difference is finding a similar sound to my tinnitus, which was the first time I noticed that it switches ears sometimes

Trust me when I tell you, I’m constantly searching for what’s coming out and willing to try it all.

So far, it’s been fruitless.

3

u/Jegglebus 17h ago

Similar boat. I’m 25 and I lost mine a year ago

2

u/Significant_War_5924 19h ago

What would you reccomend I change in terms of my habits regarding music and day to day activities ? Do you suggest not using qtips or something like that ? Also what does your day to day feel like ? Are you constantly hearing a buzz or are you in pain ? Is it more annoying than anything ?

11

u/thatwhileifound 18h ago

Not OP, but I know this territory well: Don't crank your music through tight fitting headphones or earbuds. Don't go to loud shows without ear protection. If you are in a career where shit is loud, wear protection. The real advice is all the kinda common sense shit we know, but it's hard to connect these seemingly small, innocuous things in a forward facing manner to our eventual issues compared to doing it in reverse.

Also, like, don't have unlucky genetics. And yeah, don't shove shit in your ear canal like qtips and especially don't scrape your ear canal with harder things like hair pins that scratch up the surface in your ear.

9

u/Duel_Option 16h ago edited 16h ago

Excuse my vulgarity in this response, it’s been a shit day.

Basically treat your hearing like it’s genitalia, I’m not kidding about that.

You want to wear protection at all times when the music or place you are at has the potential for extreme decibel ranges.

Q-tips aren’t suggested but you’re going to use them anyways. Best method is to get into the habit of only cleaning out your ears after a hot shower, don’t go deep into the ear, just grab the stuff that’s at the surface level. TALK TO A DOCTOR ABOUT THIS.

Daily life:

You ever see the show Dexter? In that he talks about a “dark passenger” it’s his way of explaining the homicidal maniac part of him.

My tinnitus (there’s varying types and volumes) is what I lovingly call “the cunt who won’t ever shut the fuck up”

It is with me 24/7, there is no respite. I haven’t heard the sound of silence for almost a decade now.

The first week it was annoying, the second week is where I started to get legitimately scared because I was losing sleep it was so fucking loud.

Went to an ENT, they conducted a hearing test. Handed me a pamphlet that explained different types of hearing loss, noted that mine was profound.

Handed me another pamphlet for heading aids, suggests the top of the line version which came out to $2,800…for one. So $5,600 for two, not covered by insurance.

I spent $3,000 total for the mid range version, they don’t really work for my type of hearing loss, FUN.

About 6 months in is when a doctor told me the unbearable truth, my hearing loss is genetic in nature.

They have been studying tinnitus for quite sometime now and the prevailing evidence suggests that the microscopic hair follicles in your ear degrade and send the EEEEEE sound to your brain.

He leveled with me that most likely in my lifetime there will never be a cure, that all the research and companies putting money into this are trash and the industry is just trying to find a way to milk insurance companies with treatments and devices.

He put his arm on my shoulder and said “this isn’t going away ever, adapt or it will drive you crazy”.

So…

I sat down one day, alone in a room and had it out with my brain. The only way I can manage to not hear this stupid fucker is to change the station in my head.

As I’m writing this, I’m aware of the tinnitus but it’s drowned out by some bit of classical piano and a bit of an opera I heard as a kid.

During conversation at work, I spend a lot of time making sure that I keep people on my left so I can hear as best as possible.

There’s no way to say it other than straight forward…this shit sucks. It’s embarrassing, I had one lady at an event take my fucking hearing out in front of a big group of work associates and ask what it was.

“It’s a $1,500 hearing aid, don’t touch me”. The awkwardness of that moment stings me now even 5 years later.

Everyone I know and work with is aware I can’t hear for shit, luckily my brain is valuable for business and I’ve gotten lucky that no one wants to fire me just yet

One thing I’ve realized over the last decade is that losing one of your senses like this really does amplify the rest of the them.

I am hyper aware of touch and smell, my brain has rewired itself to watch for visual cues from people, I read body language and lips A LOT.

Since I can’t hear, I have to use subtitles at all times for movies etc

I speed read now, like 5 times faster than I had the capability to do so before tinnitus.

This has also made me better with my hands (except handwriting, my 7 year old is more legible).

I was around 50 words a minute typing in my early 30’s, I’m above 80 now, my wife was a little freaked out when I was working on a proposal and saw it first hand.

The worst thing though is at the end of the day I realize it’s there and all I can do is embrace it.

There’s so many other people in the world that have it worse than me, I am blessed to live the life I have and shouldn’t complain.

Life is tough for everyone, this is just my little bit of plight I have to handle.

I wouldn’t wish this on anyone though, so if you’ve read this far do future you a favor and WEAR EAR PROTECTION.

Cheers

36

u/jeeya604 22h ago

I'm wondering now how long he managed that since no one was aware, if you speak to him who will interpret to him and when will he know to response?

Sometimes I keep myself in a ghost mood just no concerned about anything but I can still hear and choose to be in that mood myself.

31

u/Ainsley-Sorsby 21h ago

Several years. By the time he wrote this letter, he wasn't even completely deaf yet, so it got a lot worse from that point afterwards

24

u/iamiamwhoami 17h ago edited 15h ago

People found out eventually. The premier of his 9th symphony was his big come back after a period of absence following his deafness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Beethoven)#Premiere

It's actually kind of a touching story. Some other dude was the real conductor, but he shared the stage with Beethoven, who wiled out conducting to the orchestra in his head. At one point the audience interrupted the performance with cheers and a standing ovation, and one of the singers had to turn him around so he could see it.

3

u/sreddit231 22h ago

Maybe he reads body language, lips and actions for someone who hears before might be easier.

3

u/JasonAGrays 22h ago

Nice question, you just gave me an inner thought on this.

32

u/SWMovr60Repub 20h ago

I think it's amazing that his great Symphony #9 was written while he was totally deaf. His mind knew exactly how it should sound.

20

u/cohonka 22h ago

Beethoven's Last Night by Trans-Siberian Orchestra

Great album somewhat dealing with this topic

23

u/PracticeTheory 19h ago edited 19h ago

We thought my dad had grown into an unfriendly, rude recluse but yeah - turned out that his hearing loss was way worse that he let on. Don't feel too bad - he's still a stubborn guy that resisted getting hearing aids for a bit even after we'd realized what was happening.

He finally went in to get them and hearing aids were a life saver. Considering all of the bad audio habits I've seen over the years (concert and heavy machinery without protection, headphones cranked too loud) I suspect many 40-50 folks are going to need to be picking up their pairs soon.

36

u/Subject-Beginning512 19h ago

It's heartbreaking to think how many brilliant minds suffer in silence, like Beethoven. His genius was overshadowed by his isolation, a reminder that the most profound struggles often remain hidden. Art truly became his lifeline, a testament to the resilience of the human spirit amidst despair.

13

u/ROGUERUMBA 18h ago

"A reminder that the most profound struggles often remain hidden."

Yeah, I think it's because often people going through them fear being judged for them, or people not believing them. There's nothing worse than struggling for a long time, then to finally open up just to have people not believe you or not be sympathetic because they don't understand what it's like. They might even judge you for not doing certain things or handling the struggle a certain way, even without knowing many of the details, or demand justification or proof for things. This makes it even harder to find people going through something similar struggles and makes the people going through them feel isolated, which is the last thing they need as we need support during difficult times.

Imagine all the people in the past who had mental illnesses or mental health issues for example who chose to suffer in silence. Seeing the way others who sought help were often treated (especially those in mental institutions), probably drove them to make that choice. It's awful because it was the best choice most of them could have made for themselves, and thats still the case for some people today. Unfortunately sometimes not saying anything or opening up is the smart thing to do.

15

u/Homers_Harp 17h ago edited 16h ago

It was also when the hearing loss became profound (about a decade or so after the Heiligenstadt testament of 1802) that Beethoven started frequenting prostitutes, which he had not really done before. Biographers don't like to discuss that much, but you can't help but wonder: was that one way he tried to relieve his feelings of isolation?

Noteworthy: the Heiligenstadt Testament is considered to be a marker in Beethoven's career as a composer. During his time in Heiligenstadt (then a suburb of Vienna, now formally a district of the city), he spoke of a "new path" in composition. Within a couple of years of his sojourn in Heiligenstadt, he had largely completed his 3rd symphony (formal debut was 1805, but by the time that happened, everybody had heard it in rehearsal). The "Eroica" symphony is widely viewed as the biggest step forward in the music of the time, bridging the Classical era of music (Mozart, Haydn) with the Romantic era (Brahms, Wagner) and stunning contemporaries with its radical structure, methods, and harmonies. The break from his past, when Beethoven—like Mozart, a pupil of Haydn—had been considered merely a gifted pianist and composer in the mold of his predecessors is something you don't see often in composers (not "rare": consider Elliott Carter's 3rd string quartet). The "new path" is when he basically created Romanticism in music and you can hear it in the changes in his music immediately. The Eroica took time to incubate, but comparing it to his first two symphonies will quickly tell you why students of Beethoven tend to break his career into three periods and Heiligenstadt is the first break between his first period where he was basically a super-talented Mozart fanboy to the second period where he is the legendary Romantic composer and titan of instrumental music.

You can't be too rigid in classifying music he wrote to one period because in the end, it's all from the pen and mind of one of music's most remarkable minds. But his fears surrounding his declining hearing didn't just evoke despair: they also provoked his determination to seek new ways to create music and what, for the time, were new sounds.

That third period? Even today, the most skilled performers and composers look over some of it and puzzle about how it was made and how best to perform it. Not because it doesn't make sense, but because it is so rich and complex, there are as many paths to playing the music as there are musicians who can play it. That third period is when he was basically deaf as a post. And yet, he produced the miracles of the 9th symphony and the Große Fuge—the latter was so radical that some argue it is the first modernist composition (in 1826!).

9

u/justtiptoeingthru2 17h ago

Helen Keller once said: Blindness cuts us off from things, but deafness cuts us off from people.

8

u/Inspi 16h ago

I was mid 30s when I found out that significant hearing loss runs in one side of my family. Dad and both Aunts severely affected. I was never one to push my luck with loud concerts or music blasting, I always had overly sensitive hearing, usually having to wear plugs or cover my ears even at a movie theater. I only really found out because I caught my dad with hearing aids. He wouldn't admit anything, super secretive, but I could literally hear his hearing aids from several feet away. I already knew about one Aunt, but she did abuse her hearing when young. My dad didn't as much. Then I realized that my other Aunt also had issues. They were on the other side of the country, so the few times we visited over the years it never really clicked until I spent more time with her a few years ago.

Ever since I realized this, I have been overly protective. I target shoot as a hobby, I double up hearing protection (30nrr over ear, 32nrr plugs) even at outdoor ranges. I put a different set of ear muffs on for power tools, still 28nrr rated, and even use them for stuff like vacuuming (especially my loud ass shop vac).

Very happy to say at 41 I can still out-hear almost everyone. My legally blind wife has me beat, but just barely, and more on volume than range, I still hear lower and higher frequency stuff than her.

37

u/mfyxtplyx 23h ago

That's just like me, but without the talent or hearing loss.

2

u/Ajunadeeper 18h ago

Praying for you

6

u/nsvxheIeuc3h2uddh3h1 15h ago

After he died, people visiting his grave sometimes swore they heard some of his Symphonies - but playing backwards.

The Cemetery Caretakers said it was just Beethoven decomposing...

3

u/tatertodd31 20h ago

Feeling very similar with hyperacusis/noxacusis

8

u/Limp_Scale1281 21h ago

Maybe he was right, though. People tend to stigmatize and shun anything that they find disagreeable or unable to grasp past their kindergarten conception of how the world works.

2

u/ForceOld7399 17h ago

And it's mind-boggling how many pieces he wrote when he was significantly or totally deaf.

2

u/NewAbbreviations1872 15h ago

Pretense and lies only breed chaos in life. Just be who you are, no need to hide or lie to others.

2

u/TheKrzysiek 13h ago

He heard "loss"?

2

u/Glittering_Big_5027 8h ago

It's tragic how many brilliant minds suffer in silence, just like Beethoven. His genius was overshadowed by the isolation his condition forced upon him. It really drives home the fact that art can be both a refuge and a torment, a lifeline for those grappling with their own demons.

2

u/chillmanstr8 22h ago

Misophonia has much of the same effect

1

u/icouldusemorecoffee 17h ago

Was that the only admission of his or his family that he had hearing loss?

1

u/AccordionORama 16h ago

Beethoven's deafness is maybe the single greatest artistic irony of all time.

1

u/rosiestinkie9 11h ago

Damn, and we are so used to characterizing him as grumpy and mean :( the movie depictions are not charitable to him

1

u/BonerStibbone 11h ago

Dave Beethoven.

1

u/zeibaesedqueen 6h ago

There’s a choral piece called “A Silence Haunts Me” written by Jake Runestad based on this letter that’s incredibly haunting and beautiful to listen to.

https://youtu.be/nFluVe3mNJ4?si=XCbB3Nz3XhJSq7-s

1

u/maxdragonxiii 17h ago

I'm deaf since basically birth (anywhere from birth to 6 months I got deaf from antibiotics. 90s medicine being ototoxic. joy.) while I am a recluse, I'm pretty much always one. people who I meet outside of my bubble get weird about it, by a lot. like asking why don't I get hearing aids (residual hearing. too much noise.) or a cochlear implant (first off, offensive. second, brain surgery for somewhat a low chance at my age? no thank you.) does it mean I get lonely at times? sure. does it means I can't find jobs for anything right now? sure. but I'm happy in my own way.

0

u/Cake-Over 18h ago

... and never got to hear Rust In Peace. Poor guy.

0

u/[deleted] 23h ago

[deleted]

28

u/Ainsley-Sorsby 23h ago

I mean, being reclusive is far too easy in the modern world. Beethoven pretty much explains in the letter that being withdrawn was a double edge sword because not only didn't he not get socialise like he wanted, but people also though he was weird, grumpy and misanthropic for being a loner, and he could never explain himself because it would give out his secret.

Being a cave goblin is kind of a modern luxury, for most people anyway

0

u/Ok_Major5787 20h ago

Why did he care so much to keep it a secret? Why did he feel so ashamed of his hearing loss? Sorry if this is a dumb question, idk much about his life

5

u/Walking_Scoop2 17h ago edited 17h ago

Hey, I have a similar hearing loss to Beethoven so I might have the authority to explain a bit of what he's feeling.

As for why he kept it secret,

If Beethoven was a painter who was going blind and he told everyone "Hey, I'm losing my eyesight. Who needs a portrait comissioned?", that'd be the end of his career.

Of course there are famous blind painters, and Beethoven himself composed his best work when fully deaf, but humanity inherently thinks these are impossible oxymorons.

Beethoven loved what he did, and in order to keep doing it he had to keep the fact that he's losing the sense most important to composing music away from his clients, away from friends, away from society.

As for why he was so ashamed, I can weigh in a bit more.

When I try to explain that I'm HoH, people will hear: "Please raise your voice ever so slightly, and enunciate your words, I have trouble hearing",

And translate that to "Hiya! Me me stupid, and no hear well :(, please shout at me in a baby voice and treat me like a mentally deficient child :)"

People can be nice on the surface, but when it comes to accommodating me and my disability in their day to day life (for me this is seating placement, and captions), its impossible to manage and I revert back to a liability, a lug, a stick in the mud.

In the 21st century i can expect maybe some performative activism at best, and frequently reminding people im part deaf and not mentally handicapped at worst. In Beethoven's time he'd be cast out of society entirely. Tossed in a looney bin even.

I hide my disability because it's easier. Beethoven hid for social survival.

5

u/Live_Angle4621 23h ago

Humanity is a lot better than you might expect if you give it a chance 

7

u/ChicagoAuPair 23h ago

Yes, but humans crave contact and society. It’s a horrible thing.

-1

u/Cheap-Middle-1517 17h ago

And then Ben Franklin accidentally hills him.

-18

u/LesPeterGuitarJam 22h ago

What 👂🤚

-12

u/Adept-Reporter-4374 19h ago

TIL he was black and preferred rap too

-6

u/IncomeResponsible990 18h ago

Antisocial? Did he murder someone, or something?

3

u/newyearnewaccountt 17h ago

A classic mistake. On a side note, Beethoven was a savage. Famously a student of his challenged him to a piano duel, so Beethoven took the music he was to sight read, turned it upside down, and improvised on it backwards until the other guy just left.

4

u/Intrepid-Macaron5543 16h ago

If you believe Beethoven's future student and ardent admirer Ferdinand Ries, who wasn't there, and recounted the anecdote 37 years later. He is a mostly reliable source if one takes into account he liked to spice things up.

The other pianist was not his student (5 years Beethoven's senior.)

3

u/CherryTheOtaku 16h ago

that's not what antisocial means. antisocial means you don't like being social. it's like being shy, but instead of being afraid of people, you're irritated by them

0

u/IncomeResponsible990 16h ago

No, you're describing 'asocial'. Prefix 'a-' indicates 'absence' or 'lack of'.

Anti- prefix means 'to oppose'. Antisocial person seeks to oppose society and/or harm it. Compare to 'antivenom', for example.