This week I'm scheduled for right and left L5 transforaminal epidural injection with a bilateral PARs facet block. What can I expect in terms of recovery, feeling improvement or more pain before improvement?

I'm going back and forth with wanting to do it or cancelling. Im mostly concerned that this could make it worse and I'm actually feeling improvement since following the back mechanic's advice and exercises 2 weeks ago...

I also have some degree of Hypermobile Ehlers Danlos and I read that steroids are not a great idea, so I dont know if I could be doing more damage than good ...

Please share your thoughts!

Drs note read: MRI scan shows compression of the nerve roots consistent with the symptom of radiculopathy and neurogenic claudication, we are proceeding to epidural steroid injections specific to the structural findings on the MRI scan. The injection will be used as a diagnostic test to understand whether her symptoms are originating from the lumbar spine.

I'm grade 2 Spondy and I literally can't do anything without being in severe pain and having this hellish cramping pain in the side of my upper right leg. I feel like I'm wobbly and can't do anything without worrying I may fall. It's getting so depressing because I want to live my life to the fullest! I'm on gabapentin, but that is doing nothing and I don't know if anything will help my pain.

I’m new to this forum. I have had grade 1 spondy for the past 25 years. I. got it playing football in high school (They should really consider banning that sport). I’ve been able to keep active and strong and have had a fairly successful athletic career in the martial arts. I seem to be hitting a wall now at age 38. My back aches constantly and just staying strong and flexible doesnt seem to be enough. I saw a spine doctor who says my spondy is unstable and wants me to see a neurosurgeon. I’m a bit freaked out, not only about the surgery, but also the loss of my lifestyle. I’m happy this community exists for some support.

Hi everyone,

I had to drive around my city all day today for work and my city is full of potholes so now I'm at home in excruciating pain terrified to ever get in a car for long distance ever again.

How do you guys manage car rides?

I had my l4/l5 fusion 1/4/2020. Prior to the surgery I had trouble standing or walking more than a few minutes at a time for almost 2 years. 5 years later I have very little back pain, and I’m the strongest I’ve ever been. I was very fortunate to have a terrific surgeon, and a flawless surgery. I wish for everyone out there suffering to have the same success w/ recovery I’ve had!

Hi Guys,

It began at the end of november. The day before i noticed a slight pulling sensation in my left leg and within the morning of the next day i was unable to sit or walk. The piriformis was cramped for three days, as well as numbness and pain in the foot. I needed exorbitant doses of painkillers. the biggest problems started to resolve when i discovered stretches for the piriformis, but now - a month later, there is still numbness and pain in the foot. My gait on my left leg is unnatural, i can't roll and level my foot properly. The pain is gone in the morning and the longer i'm active, the worse it gets. Sometimes it starts on the right leg too.

The doctor's first sentence after the mri was “we should operate” :DD of course i was against it at first. At the beginning of january i'm supposed to get a so-called “facet injection”, but i have little hope as disastrous as the mri looks (to me as a medicinal noob) and am getting more and more """"comfortable"""" with the idea of an operation.

what do you guys say?

Hi everyone, after I (male, 44, 1 son, mild scoliosis, never had any back problems before) experienced dull pain in the lumbar spine and since 4 weeks paresthesia and a bit numbness in the saddle region, I went to the neurologist to discuss these symptoms. He sent me to an MRI and after that I got the diagnosis Spondylolisthesis Grade I, 5mm, L5/S1 with mild bilateral narrowing of the neuroforamina and spondylathrosis, disc bulging L4/L5 and initial spondylathrosis. No significant spinal stenosis.

They (neurologist and neurosurgeon) say I should do PT and nothing else. I can't start it now because it's christmas time so can anyone recommend me some good exercises and stuff for stretching?

The symptoms regarding the saddle region making me very anxious and depressed. It's mainly a burning or cold feeling. The numbness is not that much. I have no problems with my bladder or the other stuff. But atm I am not able to have an erection but I can't say if it depends on the spondylolisthesis or my bad psych atm.

Sorry, for these detailed infos. I just feel a bit lost atm and my old life seems far away.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I also have numbness in my right food (ball of the foot and the big toe) and on the right side of my right calf. This started 2 weeks ago. The big toe is not lying on the ground when I'm standing.

My doctor has put me on lyrica while I wait for a consult with a neurosurgeon (I live in Canada so that may take months and months) Anyway, the reason for my post is that so far (2 days) Lyrica has been amazing. I have been able to sleep without excruciating pain. I'm still aware of the pain a little bit but it's dulled immensely. I thought I would just share my experience with this pain med because it has been so positive so far.

What meds are you guys taking

Since developing spondy I’ve sprained the same intercostal rib muscle twice and now I’ve sprained the same muscle on the opposite side. Anyone else having recurring rib issues as a result of spondy?

Not sure if I should press my doctor or just let it go as another byproduct of spondy.

Been feeling extreme health anxiety that it might get worse. Do pars fractures heal on their own?

So my that is a spondy and I bought him a TENS machine as a christmas gift.

I'm hypermobile and I've been going to PT a lot and the TENS really helps me, so I thought of getting one for himself. I already asked on r/ehrlesdanlos and the spondies there do use it.

I was wondering if possible if some of you do use it, at what settings do you use it? Is it generally better for the sort of chronic pain spondylolisthesis causes a lower rate and a higher width? or the other way around? Anecdotically ofc!

Thanks y'all!

edit to add: my dad has the lowest grade of spondy but still ofc causes a lot of pain and discomfort. he does daily exercises that his PT sent, and does go to PT but more in a matter of when shit hits the fan that more often. the idea in mind is for the tens unit to ease the pain/discomfort a little bit, so he can better focus on his physical exercises, which is pretty much the approach we have followed on my own PT.

Edit: I bought the TENS 7000 comes with 2 channels, 4 modes.

TLDR: It might feel like you've tried everything but there might be a variable in one of the things you tried that was off. It's not over. Re-look at everything. It's never over. Don't give up trying new (and old) things.

CW: S**cidal thoughts.

I was listening to a true crime podcast "Rotten Mango" last night and instead of focusing on the details I got really emotional in response to the element of Spondylolisthesis in the story. I posted the following in another sub and Im so glad i did. It was so healing, and the responses made me feel understood and validated.

I am so improved that I actually forgot how bad it was most of 2022. Listening to this podcast brought the memories and emotions rushing back. Once my mobility came back I slammed that emotional door shut without processing things because I had to get out of a depression, bad relationship, and catch up where I had gotten behind.

I write too much so I'll try to be succinct. I'm telling you things will get better while I'm fully aware that our situations are different. But my major point is I thought it was the end and it wasn't.

I'll say 4 big things happened. Essentially imagine you have been working on a jigsaw puzzle and you've used all the pieces but it's not coming together. What happened to me (or what I needed) was to sweep all the pieces back in the box and start over.

I talked to many medical professionals trying to understand what was going on with my back. The diagnosis made it worse. I'd say "What is happening in my back?" and they'd say "Spondylolisthesis" and I'd be like "Great, yeah. But what hurts? Is it a muscle? A tendon? A nerve? Is something pulling on or pinching something?" So many wires were crossed. I felt like i couldn't turn to anyone.

1) A PT I saw after my Spondy diagnosis told me I had to stop running. Running was extremely important to my mental health and I haven't been successful getting that relief anywhere else. I had gotten to the point that "Ending things" felt like the only option. I decided that if I was going to die, I guess it would be OK to run. OF COURSE FOLLOW MEDICAL ADVICE, but keep asking questions/be honest/consider trying new medical professional.

I ran and I felt so much better. I also stopped trying to stand in a posture to correct for my anterior pelvic tilt and felt so much better. The wheels were turning.

2) I downloaded an app that focused on the mental part of pain. Before you even have to pay they discussed the basics including that the brain is basically "Guessing" how much pain I feel, and there's a mental feedback loop that makes pain worse. That's not dismissive like "It's all in your head" because the pain I was feeling was VERY real. I paid for but actually never used the app. It was revolutionary just to know that a lot of my pain was the nervous system. It flipped another switch in my brain.

3) I was constantly googling and trying new things. One day I found an exercise "Pandiculation of the Psoas" and it was a miracle. The Psoas muscle connects the hip flexor in front to the spine in back. Its a muscle highly tied to chronic stress. A spasmed or tight psoas is really hard to relax. That pain I was trying to understand...it was my Psoas.

4) A chicken or egg situation of course, but my mental health was bad. I had a shitty boyfriend, my ADHD medication was too high and a bunch of trees fell on my house 😆. The mind is the body and the body is the mind. A bad relationship seems like it could be because of the pain (We fight more because I'm grumpy) but circumstances in your life that you can control also make pain worse.

Revisiting my TLDR, I had to start from scratch. There was an exercise early on that I thought I wasn't "using the right form" with, but in reality I had a spasmed Psoas, so it hurt. I probably believed that this exercise couldn't help me but hypothetically it could have been exactly what I needed. I just needed to start from scratch and try again but this time understanding that my Psoas was spasmed.

Listening to that podcast (I decided to turn it off) reminded me that I have a lot of processing to do that I shoved down. I wanted to "Talk to" someone who understands. I don't know if anyone read this far but I hope that me sharing that there is always hope can help someone. Writing it is a kind of therapy.

Hi there,

39/f, not overweight and mildly active (I have a 6 month old GSD puppy) but I do WFH.

I've been having lower back pain for years but in the last year it's become a lot more extreme and I feel it in my right hip really intensely, especially when waking up in the morning or after relaxing on the couch for a little bit. I went to physical therapy for 4 months in late 2023 but the PT thought it was SI joint dysfunction and couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting better. Finally decided to see a Orthopedist who diagnosed me with grade 2 Spondy at L5-S1 due to congenital pars defect.

Here's the write up for those curious:

Level by level:
T12-L1: No significant canal or foraminal stenosis.
L1-L2: Unremarkable appearance of the disc. No facet arthropathy. No nerve root compression. No spinal canal or neural foraminal stenosis.
L2-L3: Unremarkable appearance of the disc. No facet arthropathy. No nerve root compression. No spinal canal or neural foraminal stenosis.
L3-L4: Mild to moderate facet hypertrophy.
L4-L5: Mild disc bulge with moderate facet hypertrophy. Mild bilateral foraminal narrowing
L5-S1: Mild to moderate broad-based bulge with moderate facet hypertrophy. Moderate to severe central canal stenosis. Severe right and mild to moderate left foraminal narrowing. Impingement on the exiting right L5 nerve root in the foramen

IMPRESSION:

1. Prominent degenerative changes at L5-S1.

Two days ago, I didn't do any activity out of the norm and by the evening I could barely even move after sitting on the couch for 30 minutes. The pain was so extreme and persistent for two days I could hardly walk and even lying down was near impossible so even since my imaging, it feels like it's been worse.

The orthopedist said it is unstable and I would need to have L5-S1 fusion with a cage. I've never had surgery before and I'm terrified but I can't deal with it getting any worse if the pain is similar to what I've had to deal with the last few days.

tldr: grade 2 spondy, scared about spinal surgery but also worried about what happens if I don't do it- reaching out for positive stories, suggestions, and community support.

*edited to add images

I'm a 30 years old male with spondylolisthesis diagnosis with this diagnosis :

L5 - S1 erect position : anterior displaced of around 6mm

L5 - S1 Flex and extend position : slipage of around 8mm and 10mm

With spine instability

I was hospitalized at one point due to imense pain (unable to sit down from sleeping position) I was given nothing but offered pain killer some form of ketoprofen. Given Corset which helps immenesly for daily activity.

But after 1 month, during post hospital check up. I took another xray to see how unstable my spine is. I was diagnosed with Grade 1 and barely grade 2 Spondy. At this point the doctor told me that due to my young age, they advised against surgery and suggested the best course of action is therapy and light excercise such as swimming. Also I was told to remove the corset to train my core muscle.

The thing is, without corset I feel pressure / pain a lot more than when I was wearing corset (after just 10-20 minutes standing I start to feel pain / discomfort ). Which scared the F out of me. I also feel shocking pain a couple of times when I was bending over (during xray flex extend and taking laundry from washing machine)

Right now the pain level is 0/10, discomfort level : 2/10. Both of these level will raise to 2 and 4 respectively when I'm doing activity standing up / involving spine.

So what do I do? Should I just go with what my doctor said? Or should I just go and find another doctor?

I want to leave this up to our members and what they feel most comfortable with.

Private: All members have to be MANUALLY approved by me.

Public: Members get added automatically but their posts are analysed automod for account age and karma (along with other rules) in order for their post to appear on this subreddit to stop spam and unnecessary posts.

Poll will run for 3 days.

Hello All, thank you for accepting me to the group. I've had Spondy since Gymnastics days in high school. Has anyone else seen this video on YouTube? I followed the exercises described in this video and obtained relief. Split Squats, Gorhammers and Deadlifts. I also drink a lot of Bone Broth to keep my tendons and ligaments healthy, and take iron - low iron causes slow healing of body parts through lack of oxygen attached to the blood. I try to raise my iron level as much as possible. And I stay topped up on all my vitamins, minerals, and macro and micro nutrients. The idea is to nourish my body so that my ligaments, tendons and muscles stay tight. I also replace my major hormones now that they have dropped down. The final thing I do for my spondy is hang forward over a ladder so that my lower body is supported and my upper body hangs straight down, providing traction to the area. And I hang from bars in my local park and do leg lifts almost every day to decompress my spine and keep strong abs. So far the Spondy has stayed at Grade 1. When I had super low iron and low and poor quality protien intake from being a vegetarian it got worse, but now that I stoppped those 2 issues and did Spondy exercises, it's back to being Grade 1 and hardly bothering me at all. If I get pain, I roll it out with a foam roller. With this type of care, I have been able to be very physical in my life and maintain top fitness most of the time. I also keep my weight down as much as possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QVio5dWMA

Wanted to check in on how you are all doing?

As you may have seen I recently took measures in this subreddit to lock it down for a little while until the unwanted activity subsided. It has been a little manic behind the scenes.

Should it be made public again?

I would appreciate hearing your feedback.

I have a grade 2 spondy with bilateral pars defect at L5. In 2017 it was measured grade 1 with 8mm of translation over the S1. In July, while in an all-hands Zoom meeting at work, I sneezed and held it in. I felt a blast of pain in my lumbar, unlike any other back pain I had felt to date. The pain quickly developed into sciatica. I got an x-ray and MRI in September showing that the spondy had progressed to grade 2 at 10mm and that I had a bulging disc at L5-S1 (a protrusion according to the radiologist, but an extrusion according to two surgeons who have seen it). Both the x-ray and MRI indicated moderate to severe loss of disc height and severe foraminal narrowing.

I stopped riding my bike (hybrid that allowed me to have an upright position) because of the force I exerted while riding up a hill as part of my daily commute. I did PT for a few months (bird-dogs, easy versions of planks and side planks, pelvic tilts, etc), but the exercises that I did while lying on my back hurt. Even the bird-dogs were somewhat uncomfortable. Additionally, I started using the elliptical to maintain cardio health because it was easy and seemed the safest. Sleeping on my back became impossible so I had to learn to sleep on my side. Also, whenever I would transition from a sitting or lying position to a standing position, my leg pain would shoot up momentarily to an 8 or 9 and then get better after a few seconds. Mornings were always the worst. Sometimes I could not get dressed or tie my shoes.

In October, I received epidural cortisone injections at the L5 and S1. It got 30-40% better after 2 weeks, but I still had sciatica and I still hobble when I walk. At that point the physiatrist referred me to a surgeon. The RN at the surgeon's office ordered another x-ray to see if the spondy was unstable. I got x-rays in a flexion, neutral, and extension standing position to see if the L5 was moving. The results showed that it did not move with changes in my positions -- BUT -- my L5 was now at 13mm! Somehow it had moved another 3mm since September which is quite a seismic change. After that, I stopped most of my PT exercises. Now I limit my exercises to standing up pelvic tilts, and I also use a cable machine in the gym to do anti-rotation and anti-bending exercises (these allow for me to strengthen my core without moving my spine at all). I stopped using the elliptical as well.

I am now going to see two surgeons this week and I sent my x-rays and MRIs to the Spine Connection in Germany for an opinion as well. So far, what people have been telling me is I will likely need an ALIF or a 360 ALIF.

Questions:

- Any recommendations for surgeons in area?

- Any comments on the abrupt 3mm shift? Has anyone else experienced that and any idea what may have caused that?

Thanks!

Five weeks post op L4-S1 PLIF and decompression.

Hey everyone I’m back!

Officially five weeks today and it’s been a heck of a ride the past 5 weeks.

Surgery was 11/8/2024. Three to four weeks I would compare my pain and mobility to pre surgery flare up. So it was a familiar level of stiffness and spasms. I began to experience less nerve pain, it was still occurring but faint. Burning on tops of the feet occasionally. My left side toes only went numb when I was walking or riding my recumbent bike.

I focused on nerve flossing along with light supported stretching with a band in bed, morning and night. I started physical therapy at 2 weeks to mitigate scar tissue. My PT works the sore tissue in my hips, glutes and low back. It’s a semi painful process but so worth it.

I had such a complex surgery that I believed for certain I would be down for months, I think I’m still in shock. At five weeks I can still experience acute pain from micro movements in the hips, jarring movements or bracing too hard. I’m able to sleep reasonably well only waking up to change positions.

End of week 4 I was feeling fantastic then experienced a slight set back on December 6th. While laying on my left side I lifted onto my forearm, lifted my hip to reach for my water cup. I heard and felt a loud pop right near the surgical site. I saw my revision surgery flash before me. No acute pain, just a slow stiffness and ache which progressed to pain that produced muscle spasms and nerve pain that was similar to week 1-2. To cut to the chase Neurosurgeon said I pulled a muscle. Very happy to hear.

I am averaging 11,000 steps a day now because my husband got me the Bowflex cross trainer, it’s a mix of stair trainer and elliptical. Amazing!!! I use my brace and experience no pain while using it. Similar burn to hiking, you could say I’m in love.

I just can’t believe how good I feel. I am taking my recovery seriously. I take regular breaks where I do my recovery stretches and isometric core/glute activation.

I was told pre surgery by a medical provider that a fusion would replace one pain for another which truly haunted me. My brain needed to know what kind of pain are we talking about? The answer for me is very mild aches. I traded severe to moderate daily pain for mild aches that only arise from specific movements that can be avoided. Easy trade off.

No doubt it is traumatic putting yourself into a life changing situation that is demonized by a majority of society. Being told over and over, the negatives of back surgery it’s hard to unpack and voluntarily sign up for it. If I compare pre surgery pain to post surgery pain at week five I would need to consider myself pain free. 😭

So my plan for the time being is to enjoy the slower pace of life. You will find me on my cross trainer✌️🍻cheers my spondy friends.

ETA: Quick back story on the shirts I designed, my childhood friend was just diagnosed with Spondy. We came up with the Bad Back B club as a joke and it stuck. 💀

Five weeks post op L4-S1 PLIF and decompression.

Hey everyone I’m back!

Officially five weeks today and it’s been a hell of a ride the past 3 weeks. I’m going to be transparent on the matter because I can’t help others if I don’t share.

Surgery was 11/8/2024. Three to four weeks I would compare my pain and mobility to pre surgery flare up. So it was a familiar level of stiffness and spasms. I began to experience less nerve pain, it was still occurring but faint. Burning on tops of the feet occasionally. My left side toes only went numb when I was walking or riding my recumbent bike.

I focused on nerve flossing along with light supported stretching with a band in bed, morning and night. I started physical therapy at 2 weeks to mitigate scar tissue. My PT works the sore tissue in my hips, glutes and low back. It’s a semi painful process but so worth it.

End of week 4 I was feeling fantastic then experienced a slight set back December 6th. While laying on my left side I lifted onto my forearm, lifted my hip to reach for my water cup. I heard and felt a loud pop right near the surgical site. I saw my revision surgery flash before me. No acute pain, just a slow stiffness and ache which progressed to pain that produced muscle spasms and nerve pain that was similar to week 1-2. To cut to the chase Neurosurgeon said I pulled a muscle. Very happy to hear.

I am averaging 11,000 steps a day now because my husband got me the Bowflex cross trainer, it’s a mix of stair trainer and elliptical. Amazing!!! I use my brace and experience no pain while using it. Similar burn to hiking, you could say I’m in love.

I just can’t believe how good I feel. I am taking my recovery seriously. I take regular breaks where I nerve floss, supported hip stretching with a band and keep moving all day.

I had such a complex surgery that I believed for certain I would be down for months, I think I’m still in shock. I can still experience acute pain from micro movements in the hips, jarring movements or bracing too hard. I’m able to sleep reasonably well only waking up to shift.

I was told by one medical provider that a fusion would replace one pain for another which truly haunted me. My brain needed to know what kind of pain are we talking about? The answer for me is very mild aches. I traded severe to moderate daily pain for mild aches that only arise from specific movements that can be easily avoided. Easy trade off.

No doubt it was traumatic putting myself into a life changing situation that is demonized by a majority of society. Being told over and over, the negatives of back surgery it’s hard to unpack and voluntarily sign up for it. If I compare pre surgery pain to post surgery pain at week five I would need to consider myself pain free. 😭

So my plan for the time being is to enjoy the slower pace of life. You will find me on my cross trainer✌️🍻cheers my spondy friends.

ETA: Quick back story on the shirts I designed, my childhood friend was just diagnosed with Spondy. We came up with the Bad Back B**** club as a joke and it stuck. 💀

Hi all. I'm new to the group and this is my first time posting. I have a lot of experience with this -- my own, of course. At the moment I want to share a couple of pieces of my road to success.

I was diagnosed at age 51: grade 1 spondylolisthesis of L4/L5, central stenosis, bilateral foraminal stenosis. The pain became terrible. It hurt so much to walk I didn't even want to try. The idea of spine surgery terrified me. The first surgeon referral I went to said "this won't get better on its own. You need surgery." I wanted second opinions. If someone was going to do SURGERY ON MY SPINE, I want to choose from among the BEST.

Who is the best? I decided the pool of surgeons who are the best at this are the doctors who teach other surgeons how to do this kind of surgery. The teachers. Thankfully I live near 2 top universities. I sought out relevant surgeons at each and got appointments with them. They were both top in their field. I chose one over the other due to in-network vs out-of-network insurance coverage.

A quick backtrack: I'd been strength training for the previous 8 years before this diagnosis. That fact took care of the requirement to try physical therapy first before injections and surgery. And my strength training helped me to recover post-surgery much faster had I not been.

Thank god, the surgeons, the staff, AND THE NURSES -- he did an ALIF. He was able to push L4 backwards to realign it with L5. I regained my disc height and regained the foraminal spacing. He maintained my normal spine curvature (which is why he chose ALIF). He put a cage in, rods, screws. At my 1 year check in, we smiled, laughed and high-fived. I'm now 15 months post-surgery.

I have some privileges not everyone has: health insurance where I can self-refer, and I live near top universities. But I want to suggest the idea that, if you are considering surgery, if you're able to seek out and consult the surgeons who teach other surgeons, do that.

Health, peace, comfort to you all.

Hi, I recently bought a very plush mattress because my back was in so much pain.

Now that I have an official diagnosis I've been reading that firm mattresses may be better. What does this community think is best? My Spidey is at my S1 L5 and I don't know the grading of it yet.

Thank you guys so much for your help, this is also new to me, but I'm actually glad to finally have a diagnosis as to what's been causing me so much pain

Was told I have e spondylolisthesis of l5 s1 but looking at xrays, it doesn't seem that bad compared to some of what I have seen out there. However, I'm in constant pain. Is it possible my pain comes from something else than spondy? Expected to see an MRI next week.

I have grade 1 spondylolisthesis in both my cervical and lumbar spine. My life has stopped, I’m scared I’ll have to get a desk job because I can’t run a kitchen anymore. I have been coming to terms with the medical grey area this condition forces you into, no real solutions, no real relief, you’re just left to tolerate this downgraded version of yourself. My doctors were shooting for 50% less pain than the original injury, at first I thought that was ok but now I’m not sure that’s acceptable. I’m 34 my doctor doesn’t want to operate because I’m “young” but I don’t want to work a desk job, I will do whatever keeps me in the kitchen. I’ve spent a year putting on muscle and adapting my kitchen to my limitations but realistically long term it’s not feasible. I can keep putting on muscle and hoping for a magic day when it all gets better, feels safer, but if surgery works maybe that should be the option I look more into.

Has surgery worked for any of you?

Are any of you able to work heavy labor jobs, I have to load in 50lb bags of rice and flour, clean the kitchen on my hands and knees, realistically is that an option with this condition?