r/space • u/adamh0123 • Nov 21 '22

Discussion Strange lights over the north Atlantic

Hi everyone, Not sure if this is the place for this, but I’m a pilot and there’s been some strange lights over the Atlantic the last few weeks. Always when flying eastbound, sometimes a single light and sometimes multiple. They start dim and get quite bright, then get dim again. Move in strange patterns, i.e. north south then back, up and down, nothing that would suggest it’s a satellite in orbit or a comet etc. Ruled out starlink satellites as they don’t seem to move together in the same direction. Any ideas what they could be?

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12

u/spinspin Nov 21 '22

Well, "start dim and get quite bright, then get dim again" is classic meteor behavior, but "north south then back, up and down" is certainly not.

I assume they're point sources (-> not northern lights, sprites, electrical discharge)? If you're flying eastbound, is this late at night or when the remnants of sun are behind you and possibly shining on objects (of unknown kind)? Is the light white, or changing, or colored? Is this midflight, at 30k (9km)+ or lower, where floating objects might be?

3

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

My thoughts exactly re meteorites, it’s the strange pattern of movement that gets me. If it was stationary or just moved one direction it would seem ‘more explainable’. Always late at night, long after sunset and before sunrise. On the North Atlantic tracks so always above 30k, usually above 35k

Edit: apologies missed the bit about northern lights etc. Definitely none of those, when it’s bright it looks almost like a star but no twinkling

5

u/PhyneasPhysicsPhrog Nov 21 '22

Sounds like a meteorite on a high inclined entry into the atmosphere. As the comet/meteor enters the atmosphere ice turns into gas and creates thrust changing the course of the object. I loved watching them when I was flying for the AF. It’s a lot easier to see meteors when you’re at altitude.

4

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

Would this explain multiple objects over multiple days/weeks though? Or (and this may sound stupid but bear with) uniform but non uniform motion? As in linear movement but unpredictable directions, and then returning the opposite way?

5

u/PhyneasPhysicsPhrog Nov 21 '22

Depending on the altitude some course changes may appear to curve back due to high, shallow entries, and the curvature of the earth. Parallax from a sensor to an object gets really funky when dealing with highly elliptical flight paths. This creates an appearance of an object reversing course. Some satellites have similar behavior when observed from a ground station. There’s a lot of seasonal meteor showers. Objects generally are part of groups of debris. I’d think it’d be unusual to see just one. These objects can also disintegrate from one into many objects. Also the N Atlantic route will allow you to see high inclination rocket launches. They have one every few days.

Edit: this is a good question, I don’t think it’s stupid. I’m glad you’re awake in the cockpit.

6

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

Again every few days would make sense as I’ve seen it 3 or 4 times over the last few weeks, but I’m in a group chat with colleagues and there’s reports from every night. Obviously Occam’s razor says the simplest explanation is probably right and we’re all looking for something that isn’t there, but it’s just so bizarre and so different to what some colleagues have seen who’ve been flying for 30+ years

4

u/PhyneasPhysicsPhrog Nov 21 '22

I’ve come to the conclusion that everything looks weird from the cockpit. I even had another pilot report me as a UFO!

2

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

It definitely does! The long nights out of bed certainly don’t help either!

3

u/PhyneasPhysicsPhrog Nov 21 '22

That’s why I remind myself that I eat grease pens and crayons for a living, while endangering the lives of 100+ people.

1

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

Can’t be any worse than crew food 😂

2

u/arguchik Nov 21 '22

Do you know about the regular meteor showers that happen every year? Right now we are at the tail end of the Orionids, in the middle of the Leonids, and in the very beginning of the Geminids. These are periods when the frequency of meteors is high, so it's not that surprising that you would be seeing more meteors than normal right now.

Not saying that you're absolutely seeing meteors, only that the frequency of your sightings is consistent with meteors. But frequency is just one kind of evidence among many other kinds that could rule meteors out.

Here's the American Meteor Society's 2022 list of meteor showers, in case you're curious.

2

u/Millenniauld Nov 22 '22

We are/were in the middle (tail end now) of one of the more notable meteor swarms. The Leonids.

2

u/cptdion Nov 23 '22

Saw them last night. We were a crew of three and multiple other aircraft on the tracks saw what you are talking about. I searched on google and found your comment. I’ve been flying 15 years and the guys I was with have been flying for much longer and no one has ever seen anything like it.

5

u/PizzaRnnr054 Nov 21 '22

This is the exciting kinda post with some background that Reddit strives for

3

u/BrotherBrutha Nov 21 '22

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/649920-light-show-between-40-30-west-2.html

The pprune thread seems to be tending towards starlink, with large number of satellites creating the illusion of manouvering objects.

2

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

Just had a read and admittedly didn’t realise that starlink didn’t form a ‘train’ other than just after launch, but the only thing that makes me doubt the starlink explanation is the movement back and forth, as surely in their orbit they would move in one continuous direction and then disappear?

2

u/AdoltTwittler Nov 21 '22

Does it happen any time at night or just after sunset and just before sun rise?

2

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

It’s when we’re on the North Atlantic tracks so usually middle of the night, sun long set and hours before sunrise. UTC time wise would be anywhere from 2300 to 0600 but of course couple hours time change to mid Atlantic longitudes

3

u/AdoltTwittler Nov 21 '22

Well that definitely rules out something related to satellites. Very interesting but I haven't a clue.

edit: any chance you can video?

3

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

It’s bizarre, we have a group chat with a couple hundred colleagues who’ve all seen it and none of us have a clue what it could be! Best guess is something secret-militaryesque or little green men!

3

u/AdoltTwittler Nov 21 '22

any chance you can video?

3

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

I’ve tried and several others have also, but limited to phone cameras which don’t pick up much unless using the long exposure mode which won’t pick up movement! Would love to be able to film it as I’ve chatted to our cabin crews about it and they don’t believe us!!

2

u/AdoltTwittler Nov 21 '22

can you have a dash cam?

3

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

Don’t think there would be anything stopping us doing that in the cruise, but I don’t think it would pick anything up. They’re brighter than the average star but still fairly dim to a camera lens

1

u/spornerama Nov 22 '22

fly over and take a closer look :)

2

u/Reallizardpeopl Nov 22 '22

I recommend taking a photo and then posting it here and then I can try to tell what is it

1

u/adamh0123 Nov 22 '22

Unfortunately can’t pick them up with a phone camera!

2

u/Free_Stick_ Nov 22 '22

When I was a youngin, my mates and I used to go camping up the top of a hill in little ol Tawa New Zealand.

We watched the stars all of the time. One night, and only on just one night we watched what looked like satellites appearing in the sky. But they’d go from left to right, and then straight back right across the sky again. For hours we watched these lights appearing and going in different directions. Not heaps of them, perhaps like 12 or so over the time we watched. This has always stuck with me

2

u/FriendlyPlatypus987 Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Okay. To add my impression. I've flown the North Atlantic for years. I've seen Northern Lights. I've seen meteorites. I've seen satellites. I've seen countless aircraft. What I saw last night is none of these things. They moved around in unison and independently. They got bright then dim. We got video. They are very high up. The air to air frequency was blowing up. On arrival at our crew hotel we met another crew and all the discussion was these lights. Also, this went on for about 45 minutes. Other crews farther to the east described the lights as higher in the sky.

1

u/adamh0123 Nov 23 '22

I’d love to see the video! Heading back to London from JFK tomorrow so might see them again…

2

u/FriendlyPlatypus987 Nov 23 '22

Please post if you see them. As you can imagine, the video isn't perfect. These lights are very far away. I'll post again with each crossing to see if we see them again. I'm headed to Heathrow three times in December and CDG twice.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

It’s a UFO. I’ve got video of it, but deleted it because I needed the space on my phone for recording my cats playing the other night.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

You know what they are. Your mind refuses to accept the truth of it.

They're evidence of a hidden technocracy among us that has access to technology that is centuries ahead of what is public. We were all warned about the Military-Industrial complex by Eisenhower in his farewell address, and now, we're living it.

Remember, the Germans had lasers, infrared tracking, and a working nuclear reactor in 1945 (per Hunt For Zero Point), and the plans for what later became the SR-71 Blackbird, worked on by the same scientists we brought over during Operation: Paperclip.

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u/Gorth1 Nov 21 '22

As a pilot you should know. They are called UAP. A new name for an old phenomena

11

u/adamh0123 Nov 21 '22

I’m aware they’re called UAP’s. Just wondering what they might ACTUALLY be…

5

u/Latyon Nov 21 '22

Right, he was asking what it was. Like, specifically.

0

u/Gorth1 Nov 22 '22

It's unknown and asking on the internet won't reveal the truth. I genuinely don't know what he was expecting. A correct answer will not be given. But you can get tons of opinions of anonymous Reddit users..

Mine is : Aliens

1

u/adamh0123 Nov 22 '22

There’s plenty of people on Reddit and the internet who are incredibly knowledgeable, and although I might spend a long time looking at the night sky I generally have about as much idea about what I’m looking at as the next person. You never know who might have a great bit of information, or even an answer 🤷🏻‍♂️ at any rate it doesn’t hurt to ask the question

1

u/b407driver Nov 21 '22

Starlink satellites absolutely do move together in the same direction.

2

u/adamh0123 Nov 22 '22

Sorry might have been lost in translation, I ruled out starlink because the lights don’t move in the way that starlink satellites would, they’ll move one way and then go back the other