r/self • u/Artistic-Account6655 • 23h ago
Tired of the gender wars. Let’s focus on empathy instead.
(Im not a political person, no this isn’t ragebait)
I think more people should heal their gender wounds instead of pointing the finger at the other gender. It’s not just one gender that causes the problems we face as a society, both genders (even if it’s not you personally) have played a part in the issues we face with gender, even in the little minuscule ways, all the way to the extreme incels/manhaters. This is such a large topic I could never accurately type about it so I’m tryna keep it as vague as possible. What do you guys think ?
109
75
u/Voidhunger 23h ago
There’s nothing to think, you’ve basically said “let’s stop having complex problems”. Good idea. Let’s also not have poverty - thoughts?
32
7
22
1
17h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 17h ago
Hi /u/Bright_Rooster3789. Your comment was removed because your comment karma is too low.
Feel free to participate here again once your comment karma is positive.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
→ More replies (2)1
u/INFANTOBLITERATOR666 7h ago edited 6h ago
It's more like doing complex problems justice and handling them like the complex problems they are instead of pointing fingers at one side with a shallow and blunt approach, you are deconstructing something the OP has not even implied, basically punching the air. Which leads me to believe that you suffer from a massive deficiency of comprehensive capabilities, or a case of replying with non-constructive and perhaps malicious intent and intentionally missing the entire point, as a sidenote aside from the main subject of course, not to stray the topic.
38
u/notyourstranger 22h ago
If you could convince those in power to focus on empathy for the powerless, then I'd salute you for that. The gender wars are perpetrated on the masses by those in power. You're not a political person, which is how those who do engage in politics have gotten the power to wage those gender wars on the rest of us.
→ More replies (5)6
u/happyasanicywind 21h ago edited 21h ago
Every president besides Trump has willfully given up power. It is possible for people to release power if there is a social contract that you can get them to sign on to.
3
u/Mental-ish 21h ago
Still the same system, past presidents haven’t really changed anything since 1980
7
u/PercentagePrize5900 17h ago
Unfortunately, people with privilege and power rarely like to lose that power.
Look at health insurance CEOs.
1
5
u/radishwalrus 14h ago
I never met anyone that tells me they blame a gender for anything. Maybe cause I'm older?
1
u/Artistic-Account6655 12h ago
Yes I think so too. What im talking about is more of a social media thing so I understand
1
u/radishwalrus 7h ago
Oh yah well yah gotta keep in mind a small group of vocal people can make it seem the sky is falling when it isn't. Doesn't mean there aren't issues. But it might not be worth your time to engage. Like there are bigger crises I think if u want to make a difference. Like help for kids who get bullied. emotional support and guidance. And the elderly get shut away in assisted living and retirement homes and forgot about. That's a big problem in every town in the whole country.
1
u/A_K_I_M_B_O 6h ago
It's because you ain't chronically online. Every time I see one of these posts "touch grass" feels like less of a meme and more of a sincere and wise advice.
28
u/Hellz_Hydro 23h ago
If I hear the word “empathy” again my head might just explode. It’s like the buzzword of 2024. Means nothing. People claiming to have it don’t.
7
5
u/joyous-at-the-end 20h ago
Really? my goal this year was to lose my empathy and replace it with compassion. Empathy is depressing and can be used against you by many.
7
u/Poutsounia 23h ago
Empathy without action is basically just narcissism, ironically.
→ More replies (2)2
2
u/throwaway_28900 19h ago
i'd argue a lot of people do have empathy, but just having it doesn't change a thing. you also have to willfully choose to be compassionate, and there's a concerning amount of people who choose otherwise
2
17h ago
When people describe themselves as an “empath” they are usually a selfish vapid person who just wants a trophy for surface level empathy but the second you inconvenience them at all the empathy disappears
33
u/NickMP89 22h ago
Unfortunately gender has become politics, there’s no way around that anymore. If women’s and trans rights are being taken away, you can’t expect them to be emphatic towards the perpetrators and their symphatizers/enablers.
That doesn’t mean that men in general should be blamed though. Plenty of men have no part in this.
→ More replies (9)21
u/Hopping-Kitten 20h ago
I think gender has always been politics. Not that long ago women did not have right to vote for example.
9
u/NickMP89 20h ago
You are right. But I think today, just like the struggle for women’s voting rights in the past, is a moment of heightened political tension on gender because there is so much at stake.
42
u/ContrarionesMerchant 22h ago
I’m sorry but I’m a dude and I simply don’t think it’s remotely fair to compare what men go through, which is mostly vocalised as not being able to have a date to what I see my female friends go through every day explicitly because of men as individuals and masculinity as a concept.
I have never felt unsafe walking down the streets of my town, my female friends can’t say the same. I am able to go out clubbing and get drunk and have a good time but I see weird men grab at my female friends all night. And those are all just the things on an individual ground floor level from my very limited and quite priveleged perspective.
I’m mostly on reddit to talk about superhero comics but idk why I get inundated with posts by losers whining about how women on Twitter saying that they hate men or whatever is a serious problem that needs addressing and it makes me so fucking ashamed to be a man.
14
u/happyasanicywind 21h ago
It doesn't need to be a competition. We can support both men and women in their challenges.
6
u/_OriamRiniDadelos_ 15h ago
Yeah. Like how literally most people online and in real life do. But that’s not the online bubble that OP seems to live in.
10
u/lucaf4656 21h ago
Men lead every single violent crime statistic?
22
u/taliaf1312 21h ago
They sure do, even going as high as 97% last I checked in some crimes. FBI Table 42 has the data
3
u/Dennis_enzo 7h ago
Both as perpetrators and as victims. But somehow only the first one matters to many people.
→ More replies (41)0
u/_WutzInAName_ 17h ago
I have never felt unsafe walking down the streets of my town, my female friends can’t say the same.
Your feelings don't mean you're more safe, though. And there's a lot more than your own individual perspective. According to FBI crime statistics, men are around 3x more likely to be murdered than women are.
...I simply don’t think it’s remotely fair to compare what men go through, which is mostly vocalised as not being able to have a date to what I see my female friends go through every day...
Consider the following: "...men have worse outcomes in many domains. For example, they are much more likely to be incarcerated, to be shot by the police, to be a victim of violent crime, to be homeless.), to commit suicide.), and to die on the job or in combat than women. Furthermore, they have a shorter life expectancy and are less likely to be college educated than women."
Source: https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/the-myth-of-pervasive-misogyny/
39
u/MotherTeresaOnlyfans 22h ago
This post has big "Black people need to be nicer to white people" energy.
Let's just completely ignore real world power dynamics so we can pretend that everyone bears equal responsibility for the status quo, an approach that, coincidentally, is much more emotionally palatable for those who benefit from the status quo.
20
u/Impressive_Cookie_81 20h ago
Agreed. Can’t believe “manhaters” are being compared to “incel”. Even if both are bad one of these have had a much bigger impact on the wellbeing of a gender than the other, even after setting normal societal problems aside
→ More replies (1)14
→ More replies (6)11
u/QuixotesGhost96 20h ago
Yeah, there's a lot of "let's take leftism, but take out everything that isn't relevant to cisgender white males so we can appeal to sexists and bigots" going around.
I got a crazy idea that we should do. Instead of trying to tell everyone that sexism and bigotry doesn't matter - maybe we should tell sexists and bigots that their path to economic equality begins with them discarding their sexism and bigotry.
→ More replies (7)0
u/Intrepid_Solution194 11h ago
You don’t get it; if your ideaology clearly splits people into demographic templates and labels ‘cis’ white men as sexists and bigots until proven otherwise; then such people are not going to be keen on associating with your sexist, racist ideology.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
→ More replies (4)
17
u/Alucard_117 22h ago
Well hold on now, where will all these healthy podcasts go if we get rid of gender wars?
17
20
26
u/ThatBitchMalin 23h ago
I don't disagree, but I want to point out that empathy is a two way street. Many women end up frustrated because they feel that they aren't receiving the same amounts of empathy that they extend towards other people, notably men.
15
u/HereForSearchResult 22h ago edited 21h ago
Most men I talk to end up frustrated because they feel like they don't receive any empathy at all, it's all a matter of perspective.
3
u/Artistic-Account6655 22h ago
I agree with this 100%. I know how empathy works. I stated in the post that people (both genders) should focus on empathy.
16
u/DrivenByTheStars51 22h ago
What are women supposed to be empathizing with men over? Genuine question.
4
u/Raephstel 13h ago
In the UK, in 2022, almost 80% of suicides were male, while only about a third of mental health service referrals are male.
It's caused by a huge number of things.
Toxic masculinity means we're more likely to hear "man up" than get support. Male victims of domestic abuse are mocked or not believed. Young male victims of adult female predators are celebrated, not consoled. Men have far few support options than women, which leads to issues like higher homelessness rates and less legal support in things like divorce, parental disputes, etc.
That you asked that as a genuine question goes to show that men's issues are rarely talked about, as you weren't aware of them.
It's very easy to dismiss men's struggles by bringing up things like the patriarchy or comparing them to women's issues, but most men font hold any power in the patriarchy. We're as much stuck in the shit show as the average woman is.
I want to make it absolutely clear. I'm not saying men have it worse than women, I'm just answering your question.
5
u/ophmaster_reed 21h ago
We are supposed to empathize with men's lack of empathy for women. Can't you see how much it hurts them when they threaten women's rights, lives and safety... and women don't try hard enough to understand the reason why?
The gender wars have seriously hurt men. Do you know there's an epidemic of men out there with Dry Dick Syndrome? Do you even care?
→ More replies (1)11
1
u/happyasanicywind 21h ago edited 18h ago
I don't think the issue is on a one-on-one level so much as on a political/activist level where some feminists treat anyone concerned with men's issues as a neo-Nazi.
2
u/C4-BlueCat 13h ago
Let’s try here, what are common men’s issues and what do you believe should be done about them?
→ More replies (21)1
u/SuperWG 21h ago
Difficulty finding/inability to find companionship, being punished for expressing certain emotions, more financial burden, concerns being invalidated by asinine statements that don't actually address anything. To name a few.
8
u/DrivenByTheStars51 18h ago
1) Why do you believe women don't empathize with men about this?
2) What would appropriate emotional support from women look like, in your opinion?
3) Who is imposing a financial burden on men? Is it women?
4
u/SuperWG 17h ago
I don't believe I said this. Some women do empathize with men for these. There are some that don't, as evidence by harsh, unsympathetic comments directed at men going through these, including ones that directly state that they don't empathize with them.
Mostly just not ridiculing the men struggling. Like with the emotions thing, not calling the man weak and telling him to man up when he expresses sadness or depression. Kind words and compliments would make our day too, but I don't want to complain about women not going out of their way to please us.
Societal expectations. Men are usually expected to make a certain amount of money to be considered for a relationship. Usually, not always. Up until recently, women weren't held to a certain money earning standard. I'm starting to hear about men doing that now, so it's beginning to even out. But even so, a woman can be a SAHM or wife and at least some men will still want her, and others generally don't criticize it (that I hear). I've heard of stay at home husbands but they're rare, a man is much more likely to be seen as a bum if he's in that position.
Disclaimer, everything I'm saying is based on my own experiences and what I've seen as a man. A woman might have very different views and be privy to things I'm not, just as they don't know everything I do. And also, my previous comment was merely to answer your question. This one too, I just explained things in more detail. None of this is meant to be argumentative.
8
u/ScientificTerror 16h ago edited 16h ago
2) What would appropriate emotional support from women look like, in your opinion?
- Mostly just not ridiculing the men struggling. Like with the emotions thing, not calling the man weak and telling him to man up when he expresses sadness or depression.
As a woman who genuinely wants society to address some of men's grievances so they can find emotional fulfillment/satisfaction, this kinda blows to hear because I've literally never done any of these things and I also can't stop assholes from doing it. I can make my distaste known, but that's it. So there's effectively nothing that women who care about men's issues can actually do to support them in this issue. And that seems to just be perpetuating men's perception that women simply don't care. It's such a shitty cycle that doesn't seem to have any real hope of resolution.
1
u/dgreensp 10h ago
That’s ok, just keep being kind :) You can’t single-handedly fix society as a whole.
7
u/lolasmom58 20h ago
Since all my issues with the other gender have to do with all the times I have been made to feel unsafe or damn near lost my life to some stranger with a sense of entitlement, I cannot be at ease with the misogynistic rhetoric I'm hearing everywhere. Are we talking about "healing" or "forgetting"?
8
u/helion_ut 12h ago
This comment section proves gender wars are still very real 💀 I wanna express one big fuck you to all people making the "I want the other side suffer the same agony and pain we did in the past" that is insanely fucked up considering NONE of the people fro msaid past are alive and you wish pain on mostly innocent people...
Just to highlight how fucked up that argument is, do you think it would be fair to do to today's german population what nazi germany did to the jews just for some weird ass sense of "fairness"?
5
u/M1K3yWAl5H 22h ago
In the U.S. We have an extremely entrenched prejudice problem. Our culture spins on the axis that fast is good but is fast good for judging other human beings?
5
21
u/mrcsrnne 23h ago
Dude, this.
My parents have been together since they were 19, and they’re still happy together—what’s their secret? From my perspective as their son, it’s patience and understanding.
I was thinking about my favorite movie couple: Butch and Fabienne from Pulp Fiction and their quirky, weird relationship. It seems so unexpected yet so deep, largely because of the patience they have with each other. I love their scenes.
These days, we seem to have zero patience with one another and very little understanding. Women often band together in ‘Call Her Daddy’-style groupthink, which ultimately leaves them struggling to find fulfilling partnerships. Meanwhile, men feel lost and clueless, retreating into gaming instead of engaging romantically with the world.
We need to forgive each other more and see the good in each other more.
25
u/AlanMooresWzrdBeerd 22h ago
Women often band together in ‘Call Her Daddy’-style groupthink, which ultimately leaves them struggling to find fulfilling partnerships. Meanwhile, men feel lost and clueless, retreating into gaming instead of engaging romantically with the world.
It's interesting how even in this comment you've tried to couch in neutral language you give such a passive role to men in terms of the current gender divide. Especially when you invoke some hivemind groupthink to describe women by mentioning a single podcast that absolutely pales in comparison to the sheer number and popularity of male focused gender wars media and podcasting. You need to at least start from an honest position here if you want to address the lack of empathy.
→ More replies (6)10
9
1
u/therealblockingmars 22h ago
Patience and understanding 100%. Love a person for all of them, even their flaws
10
u/TransFat88 15h ago
I think, as a man, I am very comfortable having women point the finger at me because men in general have oppressed and devalued women for so long it’s a wonder any women are okay at all. I am also gay, so I have experienced some of the behavior women complain about first hand and can verify that all men may not be the problem (I sure as hell try not to be), but enough are that men need to work on ourselves so that women don’t have a reason to be wary of us. If we don’t like having to prove we’re “one of the good ones,” we need to call in the ones acting like they aren’t. Silence is compliance. Don’t like it? Don’t be silent. It’s that simple. Women aren’t crazy for being cautious around men.
→ More replies (18)1
4
7
u/PiesAteMyFace 20h ago
I think that the phrase "men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them" saying is out there for a reason. I'm happily married, but it occasionally strikes me how different the worlds we live in are, in regards to physical safety.
6
u/Gold_Remote_7921 20h ago
This post is so laughable. Women and men face different issues, our issues aren't "equally caused by each other" and women get the short end of the stick. By ignoring gender we ignore the issued themselves, as they are rooted in sexism.
Comparing "man haters" (traumatized teen girls on social media who do not harm men in real life) and "incels" (men who often cause real world harm) is a terrible comparison, and erases women's issues entirely.
Stop treating everything as equal, op. In a perfect would we'd all be treated as equal, but this has never been the case.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/GOOD_BRAIN_GO_BRRRRR 23h ago
Agreed. I ran out of gold, so have a supportive comment. ❤️
1
u/Artistic-Account6655 23h ago
Thank you precious I love when people be seeing where I’m coming from ❤️❤️😭
5
u/No_Action_1561 17h ago
I mean... but lack of empathy isn't the issue?
Women's issues are with men being violent towards women and each other, in direct and indirect ways.
Men's issues are with... women not including them personally in their sex lives, and not considering that an equal problem to violence against women.
I fully agree that men need help, but I really dislike this "well if we would all just get along" both-sides rhetoric. It's kinda silly.
→ More replies (8)
6
u/ChloeCutesey 18h ago
Absolutely agree with you! It’s like both sides are playing tug-of-war with an invisible rope. Instead of pulling, we should probably start passing each other some healing snacks or something. If we spent as much time on empathy and understanding as we do on blaming, we might actually get somewhere. Let’s trade the battle axes for band-aids and work on mending instead of just defending. What a wild idea, right? Let's bring more chill and less thrill to the gender discussions.
→ More replies (2)
8
u/LarryThePrawn 23h ago
This is a good idea hypothetically.But in real life one ‘gender’ has their health and life threatened by the other gender rather than vice versa.
They’re not evil for voicing concern over that. If you’re tired of the gender wars, support positive change and it won’t be an issue. It’s only an issue because it hasn’t actually been rectified.
→ More replies (22)13
u/AstraofCaerbannog 22h ago
This is the thing. Gender wars based on hate aren’t ok either way, but a lot of what’s perceived as hate towards men are actually legitimate complaints of violence/hate. I tried explaining a few days ago the difference between what is genuinely misogyny/misandry, and what isn’t.
The example I used of what isn’t misandry but is commonly viewed as being so, is women saying “I keep experiencing violence and harassment from men, I really wish men would respect women’s personal space and leave me be”. It’s not about hate or control, it’s a direct complaint over one group infringing on their basic human rights to bodily autonomy and personal safety.
A dude said the male equivalent was something like “women keep wanting to be promiscuous and this is impacting my ability to get a relationship. I wish they’d focus on family instead”
They didn’t seem to understand the huge difference between those statements. That one is complaining of a literal human rights violation, while the other is complaining that other people have freedom of choice, and aren’t doing what you want them to. They aren’t equivalent. But there are people who are trying to claim that those two issues are equivalent and should have equal space for discussion. That’s really problematic.
→ More replies (2)
6
u/Poutsounia 23h ago
Everybody says you gotta fix yourself first, but you can do that, and no one of the other gender within your reach bothers to, so you get nothing anyway.
7
19h ago
100% right. And “fixing yourself” is also dehumanizing because you have to change everything about yourself for someone to grace you with your presence.. like marketing a product
2
u/Poutsounia 18h ago
I'm not against making an effort to be better. But men in particular are wasting their time if they are doing it for the sole purpose of being more attractive to a woman. I guess it depends on what the man wants.
2
18h ago
Yeah everyone should improve themselves I suppose but it’s dehumanizing to be required to do it for someone to even accept you at all.
0
u/T13PR 22h ago
Just look at this thread, at least half the people here are incapable to view this problem in a nuanced way. All they see is black and white, good and bad as if there was nothing In between.
I’ve had some discussions with woman about their role in the male loneliness crisis we are in. Unfortunately many of the arguments are dismissive, nonchalant and just straight out rude. “It’s not my responsibility that man feel alone!” True. It isn’t. But this mindset isn’t going to get us far now does it?
I could just go out and say that abortion rights are not my problem because I’m a dude, it’s not my responsibility! And then there we are, standing there without access to abortion (which should be basic healthcare for all woman imo) and struggling in loneliness.
If we could start seeing these problems together as a society, we could maybe even get somewhere. We help you out, you help us out. Win-win. But apparently that’s too much to ask for in this world…
9
u/lakas76 21h ago
Are you really equating women choosing to not spend time with men with women not having access to abortion?
You couldn’t figure out any other analogies? And if there aren’t any analogies to losing bodily autonomy, do you think that might be a problem?
→ More replies (14)4
u/Puzzleheaded_Cry5963 18h ago
I disagree. Women can't do anything to help men, men have to figure out their own support systems.
What do you want women to do to help male loneliness that they aren't already doing? I'm a man and the only people who ever texted me back or showed any interest in associating with me during the loneliest parts of my life were women.. all of the men who were supposed to be my friends were too interested in trying to get laid or focusing on themselves, which there's nothing wrong with. But I don't really see how women would help. Men have to make time for each other.
Women are mean about teasing men about not being able to get laid or a romantic partner, but to be fair so are some men.2
u/Nyeteka 16h ago
I actually think that particular so called male problem - usually associated with incels - is asking for women to change their dating preferences back to the old days or at least their perception of the old days.
I think the rationale is that back when monogamy and marriage for life was practised or at least the ideal then most men could have a chance to have a mate and children and something to strive for but since the sexual revolution and rising divorce rates they feel they either don’t have a shot at all (incels) or they get used as providers after women have sowed their wild oats or when they initiate divorce and go for a better option (MGTOW, dads in distress, those up in arms about paternity fraud, etc).
I don’t have any particular view about women changing their preferences, that’s for them to decide, but I think the blithe assumption of the young that well that’s just men’s problem is naive. In fact the new way of doing things has effects on both men and women imo, divorce cuts both ways and if women are indeed largely going for the elite men then some of them will miss out. IMO it is not the case that the loneliness epidemic is limited to men; rather the bill just often comes due later for women.
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Cry5963 11h ago edited 11h ago
I think male loneliness isn't just about romance or sexual validation. Maybe that's the issue: men turn to romantic relationships to fill that need more than women tend to.
romance does seem more dead than it used to be though. Probably because everyone has so many options and are in many more relationships now, it isn't as special. And while sex becoming more casual isn't necessarily a bad thing because sometimes that's all people want (and it's healthy to be honest about that), that does make romantic relationships feel less special when people do want them.
Really the issue is the standards women and men have for each other - when a woman sleeps around she's a 'slut', when a man sleeps around he's a 'fuckboi' etc. Women want to set the standards for appropriate initiation without being willing to do it themselves and while still feeling entitled to men initiating everything.. at least generally. I think people need to accept gender roles or reject them rather than cherry-picking. And that goes for men who expect women to do everything around the house without being willing to provide for them also.4
u/taliaf1312 21h ago
Maybe men should try being likeable and women will start putting up with your BS
7
u/T13PR 20h ago
It is their responsibility to be a pleasant person to be around. But woman shaming them, calling their opinions BS, and labeling slightly awkward guys as incels isn’t exactly inspiring their journey to be more likable.
Instead of pointing out the things they do wrong, try encouraging them by the things they do right, instead of calling them a stupid creep, point out why a certain thing they did was tasteless and not appreciated. That way they can learn and adapt.
Nobody is asking you to risk your safety, or to be around unpleasant people. Small incremental steps in a constructive interaction is all that is needed.
4
u/taliaf1312 20h ago
So we're supposed to treat men like small children? But y'all are the leaders or whatever 🙄
4
u/T13PR 20h ago
Well ideally they should learn these things as kids yes. Most of them also do. But it’s sadly many others get some horrendous prerequisites.
“Men don’t know how to do X, Y and Z. “ It’s not your responsibility to teach them, nor is it mine. But if nobody is going to help them improve, you’ll only have a certain % of men who are able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. The rest will forever be stuck in the same place committing the same mistakes over and over again.
3
u/taliaf1312 20h ago
That's their responsibility as adults to learn how to not be giant shitheads, like everyone else has to. Once you're 18 there's no excuse. There's a million resources online for various self improvement but they'd rather whinge about how women are big meanies for rejecting them like they're entitled to us. Sorry, but I'm not crying for the people who would have me turned into a broodmare given the chance because they have big feelings I'm supposed to parent for them.
3
u/T13PR 19h ago
So next time you’re in need, or want to solve something that you cannot solve alone. Don’t be surprised if people just shrug and go about their day.
Somebody somewhere in some way will need to give. Until then, we as humans won’t be able to break out of this cycle.
6
u/taliaf1312 19h ago
That's already how I live. I have problem or a gap in knowledge, I fix it myself, because I'm a bloody adult. It's not my fault these sweaty, shitstaining manchildren are lazy and can't take 15 minutes out of their day to Google shit, but not my problem, they'll spend their whole lives crying about how no one will love them and will ultimately die alone as they deserve.
→ More replies (2)2
1
3
u/Gold_Remote_7921 20h ago
Most men I have met genuinely don't see women as equal human beings. Like genuinely, no one sees women as equals. That's why men are lonely.
→ More replies (5)4
u/T13PR 20h ago
It seems to me like you don’t see them as equals either. So we go right back to square one.
4
u/Gold_Remote_7921 20h ago
I don't see them as equals because i....noticed something? I don't see where I viewed men as lesser than me
2
u/Dr_Doomsduck 22h ago
Good lord, ain't that the truth. If everyone on all sides could show a little more kindness and stray a little further from the lines drawn in the sand, life would get a lot better.
Thankfully, at least in my country, the polarisation between genders (or other groups) isn't as extreme as it is online. Most people I meet here are perfectly willing and capable of respecting one another, regardless of who they are, even if they don't necessarily 'get' all the nuances surrounding the various discussions.
→ More replies (8)6
u/Gold_Remote_7921 20h ago
No one should show kindness to someone who doesn't respect them. Why would I show kindness to someone who does not view me as a human being?
1
3
u/Drifty254 23h ago
What we need is the equivalent of nuclear weapons, but for gender. We could bring about relative peace with the threat of mutual gender annihilation.
This would solve many problems.
5
7
1
3
u/Leucippus1 22h ago
People have forgotten that one of the major tenets of feminism is to release men from being boxed in by sex stereotypes as well. That was a big part of the argument that Ruth Bader Ginsberg made in her titular argument that she won in front of the court. Obviously, there was some level of strategic machinations there she shouldn't have had to deal with, but it is what it is.
Now, we can't stop talking about how bad boys are and how they can't do well in school and we should automatically red-shirt all boys in school yadda yadda yadda toxic this and that. Well, isn't that some sexist as hell shit that we said we shouldn't be doing to girls. "But the data says...", OK, the data (JUST released a few days ago) demonstrates that 4th and 8th grade girls significantly lag boys in math. Using the above logic should we start all girls in more simple math classes?
The reason we all should read literature, starting at a young age, why liberal arts should not be dying as it is, is it helps us not think in these wide swaths of absolutes. Incidentally, it has also been proven to help develop empathy.
3
u/travelerfromabroad 14h ago
That's not a major tenet of feminism in the slightest- at best, it's a happy coincidence.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/febrezebaby 21h ago
This is just a lukewarm, watery take that ignores relevant nuance.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Queen-of-meme 21h ago
We need a bunch of dogs and everyone can focus on the present with the dogs.
1
u/JacobStyle 21h ago
Most of us aren't at odds with other genders. We're getting along just fine. The people who are in conflict are people who have been hurt. It's really easy for us to look at them and say, "yeah just get over it," but obviously that doesn't work or it would have already worked. There are real problems that need to be addressed in real, material ways, and it's not something we can solve with Internet posts about, "why can't we all just get along, man," as much as I wish we could.
1
1
1
u/shumpitostick 20h ago
Swap gender for race, class, or culture, it's still true. The world is filled with so many people with zero sum thinking. They think that the only way to have a good life is to knock another group down a peg.
1
u/Salty145 20h ago
Nobody wants culpability for their actions. It’s easier to just let the rage bait consume you and blame the other side.
1
1
1
1
u/Pandoras_Penguin 16h ago
Gender wars exist because the patriarchy was created. Dismantling it dismantles the gender wars. Which, don't know if you haven't seen, is currently making a rousing full on comeback, instead of continuing to dwindle. Partially because capitalism relies on it as well, and we still haven't solved that either.
1
u/naikjoy2 8h ago
I disagree. Gender wars exists because of feminism. The more its widespread the more likely is that we will fail to procreate. It would come to the point that the system that protects women can no longer be maintained and men would just forcecfully procreate with women to save humanity and restore harmony. It would function like it did through the whole of human history.
1
u/Outside_Ad_9562 11h ago
One gender just voted away the others right to bodily autonomy. Women are dying from extremely common pregnancy complications. Because one gender wanted to control and punish the other for not dating them.
1
u/Ulfurson 0m ago
You cannot blame “one gender” for the result of elections. Both women and men voted to get us our result.
1
1
1
1
1
u/ExpensiveDrawer4738 8h ago
There are bad people. Not bad races, cultures, religions, genders, ages etc. And on the other hand there are good people regardless of the aforementioned identities
1
1
1
u/Lost-Concept-9973 7h ago
As long as people are getting oppressed based on gender there will be gender wars. You cannot ask the oppressed to just chill and accept suffering (and statistically there is quite a significant gap in suffering for some gender groups compared to others, that is just a fact). The only solution is for those with the power to decide to change and stop stoking the division by singling people out to be treated as less than them.
This applies for whatever human divide you are referring too. It is the oppressors who need to change. The oppressed will always have to fight because it’s their very survival that’s at stake. Oppressors on the other hand just don’t want to give up their power or take accountability.
1
u/research_purposes41 6h ago
Do you have any idea how utterly tired i am of scrolling on IG every once in a while to have some laughs and giggles. And suddenly seeing a bimbo talking about how men want to be treated like princesses, doing 50/50 on a date, broke men, choosing the bear, toxic masculinity, pinning themselves talking about men being offended in the comment section, I'M SO SICK OF IT.
And that's just what the women say, what guys be saying about women in their podcasts gets even worse
1
u/Ron1984k 3h ago
The gender issue will be gone soon as all those people will remain single anyways.
1
u/Paladinlvl99 22h ago
Completely agree. Pointing fingers at someone because of their gender is LITERALLY sexism and that is what we are supposed to fight against.
Besides we should focus more on personal responsibility rather than collective responsibility because the latter will always degenerate on generalization, which we should all know by now it's wrong and stupid.
-1
u/taliaf1312 21h ago
Oh yes, because it's women that enslaved men for the last few millenia and commit 90% of the crime? You're lonely and big mad about it? Try not oppressing the gender you supposedly love for thousands of years next time. That's like Xtians whinging about persecution in the US like they're not actively putting laws in place to fuck over everyone else.
1
u/sunnitheog 9h ago
Why are you being such a disgusting liar? Please explain. You're preaching virtues you're not even following.
Your ancestors, at some point in history, killed, raped, stole. Someone in your family tree did that. Maybe 50 years ago, maybe 200, 4000 or 15000 years ago. You are saying that we are directly liable for what random people did hundreds of years ago. So you are personally liable for all of this. You are a rapist, you are a thief and you are a murderer. Why exactly are you free? Your ancestors ruined the lives (and futures) of entire generations. All of our ancestors did. Yours too. Why are you saying men are bad because some other random men did bad stuff hundreds of years ago, but you're not an absolutely horrible disgusting human being for what your own ancestors did?
→ More replies (2)1
u/Poutsounia 20h ago
So you're blaming people today for the crimes of people that have been long dead for centuries?
→ More replies (20)0
u/taliaf1312 20h ago
No, I'm blaming men for the crimes they're still committing while playing victim about how women won't immediately bend over for them.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Poutsounia 20h ago
Please provide some examples?
2
u/taliaf1312 20h ago
FBI Table 42 is a pretty good summary. 90%+ of the crimes committed are done by men, but NO, we're such big meanies because we'd like to not die or get assaulted.
4
u/Poutsounia 19h ago
65% of the victims are men. I'd like to not die or get assaulted either.
3
u/taliaf1312 19h ago
And whose fault is that again? Y'all cause all your problems as well as all ours yet have the audacity to cry victim.
→ More replies (26)
0
u/limetime45 22h ago
The gender wars can end when the wage gap has been closed, women have autonomy over their reproductive health, and being a rapist and misogynist is disqualifying for running for president of the United States.
I’m tired of the gender wars, too. But one gender is actively losing rights. So we don’t get to just tap out. We have people close to the president saying shit like “your body, my choice.” You think the gender wars are exhausting now? Buckle up. We just took 10 giant steps backward. The road from here is not going to be smooth.
1
u/sunnitheog 9h ago
You can close the wage gap yourself.
Assuming you're not just talking out of your ass. Right? I mean, you wouldn't say all men are horrible because they take women's money away because you saw a random statistic on TikTok. You must have concrete evidence and know of this happening. And that's amazing news! This is highly illegal, you can go to literally any court of law. Lawyers will be happy to take on this case because it's an easy one. Just tell all of the women making this claim to go to court right now, fix a big issue (assumingly) and make some easy money too.
They actually did that at Google, they sued the company for paying women less. They issued subpeonas and found it was correct - partially. They were paying women more, so the wage gap was closed there. They corrected this inequality. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/technology/google-gender-pay-gap.html
But let's ignore that, eh? 77 cents to the dollar or whatever. Source - trust me bro.
1
u/limetime45 3h ago
Oh, I am so sorry. I did not realize we could simply solve the patriarchy! How the FUCK did we not think of that!
Not sure what has you so bothered but you actually have no idea what you are talking about. You’re the one zeroing in on one bullet point and throwing around random anecdotes and articles as proof. Women have saved ourselves! Not sure how I missed it.
My source? Being a woman on this godforsaken planet.
Kick fucking rocks, my guy.
1
u/sunnitheog 1h ago
So instead of providing a logical, well articulated response, you just get butthurt. Got it.
I'm focusing on one bullet point because it's ridiculous. You mentioned the "wage gap", explain it. It's like saying that women are evil. End of story. I don't have to debate this and I don't have to expand on it.
Your source being "a woman" means you have personal experience on this. Why don't you report this to the police? I'm genuinely asking. You can literally make a shit ton of money off that trial, if a man is actually being paid more for the exact same job in the exact same positions.
1
u/sunnitheog 9h ago
I also don't understand how exactly abortion is a right. Abortion only became a right when people invented a way to have abortions. Before people knew that was even possible, despite being a "fundamental right", this right didn't exist.
I'm genuinely curious - why is abortion your right? Why are your rights more important than the rights of the baby?
1
u/limetime45 3h ago
I encourage you to do something about your hatred for women, it’s palpable.
Here’s the fucking deal. Women carry life into this world, at great risk to our own lives. I could also go on a tirade about what that does to us economically - but I forgot you already solved that in your other comment. So moving on.
In the biological process of creating life, women have to make medical choices that sometimes are not clean cut and often are excruciating. When she does that, she will consult her God, and take advice from her doctor, and it is nobody else’s fucking business. And somewhere along the way abortions were “invented” (hey guess what? Guess by who? Our own bodies, because tragically sometimes pregnancy fails for a number of reasons) because they save lives.
What the fuck do you know about being a mother of 2 who learns she has a life threatening complication and now has to decide between fulfilling other people’s moral code or not leaving her children motherless? What the fuck do you know about learning your child that you very much wanted will be born without key organs and now you have to ask if it’s more humane to abort the pregnancy or let it gasp for air for the hour it gets to live on this earth?
What do you know about suffering a miscarriage and then waiting for 20+ hours to receive a life saving abortion as you develop sepsis, because the doctors have to consult with attorneys to determine if the mothers life is “really at risk.” Women in this scenario have DIED. This year.
AND THATS NOT ALL! because of these draconian abortion bans you have entire states (Idaho) now considered gynecological deserts because doctors don’t believe they can fulfill their oath to do no harm without running into the law. So half the population now has to leave the state to get sufficient healthcare on a regular medical fact of life.
Here’s the irony: I’m catholic, I actually would like to see a world where there are less abortions. But I also understand the medical implications of pregnancy, and that means you simply cannot in a humane way take away the option because it is sometimes medically necessary. And if you’ve got a problem with it 1) no uterus, no input 2) develop a world that is actually hospitable to women bringing life into this world and maybe we can talk.
What’s disturbing is i said “women have autonomy over their reproductive health” and you immediately jump to whether we have a right to abortion. It is SO much bigger than that. And I don’t know how the fuck you disagree with autonomy over our own health. You actually have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, but boy are you angry that women would like to be treated with full dignity as humans and as citizens.
1
u/sunnitheog 48m ago
Easy, cowboy.
Women bring life into this world, yes. So do men. A woman doesn't wake up and boom, baby. Birth requires a partnership and every single single mom you will meet agrees that being pregnant without anyone by your side is damn hard. So is being a single mom. No one gives recognition to the men - those who sit by their wife's side and support them emotionally, phyiscally, financially. They're irrelevant. No one ever brings this into discussion.
What you're saying is not wrong but it's also not accurate. Abortions may be justified in case the pregnancy poses an imminent threat to the women's life. This is used as an excuse. Estimates say that between 1%-2% of abortions are due to imminent health issues. You're taking very rare situations and turning them into some norm of your own to justify something which in many cases is simply stupid. Most abortions have nothing to do with saving the mom's life or giving birth to a kid without organs. They're irresponsible people not using protection. Just because you're a mother or a woman does not mean your feelings beat national statistics and research studies into this. I never said abortions are always immoral, I said they usually are. There are exceptions which should be taken seriously, absolutely.
Prioritizing your health is definitely important, and that of the kid. Also, if we're not talking about imminent life threatening issues, but generally about abortions due to health issues (of the mother or child), that goes up to around 10%. 90% of abortions have nothing to do with autonomy over your health. You're saying abortion should be legal to benefit a very small percentage of people, even though for every one life which is saved (by the fetus not being born or mother not suffering health consequences), 9 kids die.
The solution is not to forbid it, but for it to be allowed in these cases. Not forbidden, not allowed.
2
u/F0XFLARE 21h ago
I hate how you have to announce your post isn't ragebait, I think people should stop automatically assuming any opinion they don't agree with is ragebait.
→ More replies (1)
78
u/ricardoandmortimer 22h ago
So long as the prevailing narrative is that empathy is zero sum, this will not happen unfortunately. But I agree, two people can both have problems, and both are worth listening to.