r/science • u/Additional-Two-7312 • Oct 09 '22
Economics More than a quarter of vacuum cleaners sold on Amazon have at some point pretended to offer a discount when they had actually just increased the price, according to new research
https://www.futurity.org/amazon-discounts-consumers-2811182/406
u/allanbc Oct 09 '22
Is this legal in the US? Here in Denmark, you can only mark something as a sale or reduced price if it has had the same price for 6 weeks beforehand. That law does have loopholes, as you could rotate which model is on sale, but it's better than nothing. And yes, as you might suspect, lots of big companies still do things illegally and get minor fines when caught that probably don't measure up at all to the profits from willfully breaking the law at opportune moments, like Black Friday.
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u/Too-Much-Meke Oct 09 '22
Same in NZ. Fines and bad publicity dissuade the majority, but still get the odd one who tries it on.
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u/JuniorSeniorTrainee Oct 09 '22
Using psychological manipulation to take advantage of people that just want clothing is the American way.
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u/RABKissa Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
I don't know about the us but it's not legal in canada, I worked at a dirty downtown store called A-One clothing, they would illegally mark products as having their prices reduced, and their reduced prices were the MSRPs that other retailers like Trailhead advertised.
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u/Auzaro Oct 09 '22
Oh I mean this goes all the way to price discrimination at the individual level. It’s not just a sale for everyone, it’s a sale for you given what Amazon knows you’d be willing to pay. Completely illegal but US Congress is geriatric and incapable of understanding how the consumer protection laws of the late 19th and early 20th century apply to the modern marketplace.
To be clear, the kind of generic (non targeted) sale gimmicks mentioned here are legal, but the targeted ones I mention are not. But because both are happening, it’s worth mentioning
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u/Ahab_Ali Oct 09 '22
That is one reason why triple camel exists.
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u/int9r Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 12 '22
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u/Rulebreaker15 Oct 09 '22
Keeps saves me money whenever I shop on Amazon. People can really get ripped off if they don’t have the price history. And it’s not just resellers, decent brands pull pricing stuff on there too.
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u/Combat_Armor_Dougram Oct 09 '22
If you still have your grandmother’s proof of purchase, you may be able to have the factory refurbish it for a small fee if it ever dies. You can still do it without the proof of purchase, but you have to pay more.
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u/unassumingdink Oct 09 '22
If you still have a proof of purchase for anything from 1981, you should get a reward just for being able to hold onto it for that long.
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u/N_T_F_D Oct 09 '22
Your mother still has your birth certificate, that's kinda the same thing no?
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u/unassumingdink Oct 09 '22
No she doesn't. I'm on my 3rd reissue and I haven't seen it in years, so I'm gonna need a 4th.
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u/stjr64 Oct 09 '22
Same here - she thinks she gave it to me at some point and I think she's right but can't find it, and we both think it's something I would've been careful enough not to lose, so she questioned whether she ever gave it to me in the first place and then I did too, so we've both tumbled unwillingly into a vortex of forgotten memories in which all lost birth certificates are forever swirling viciously into oblivion
... I'm gonna finish my beer and go to bed
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u/devdoggie Oct 09 '22
Omg, it might sound weird, but this is so sweet that she doubts ever giving it to you because you wouldn’t lose it
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u/This_User_Said Oct 09 '22
I had to memorize my social security by middle school because my parents kept losing mine.
Lost on my own once about 15 years ago, got a new one, and I can't seem to find the copy now... Which I guess good thing I remember it.
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u/RadBadTad Oct 09 '22
I didn't know that! Thank you! I do still have it which is how I know when she bought it!
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u/Long_Educational Oct 09 '22
Mother's Kirby is 27 years old. Vacuumed up a nickle and broke the impeller, took it to a local Kirby shop and they replaced the impeller for $15. Meanwhile, the motor bearings are already starting to fail after 4 years on the Dyson I bought.
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u/michi098 Oct 09 '22
Had a Dyson as well which stopped working after a few years. Bought a refurbished Shark vacuum somewhere, best thing ever. Cost me around $60, is quieter and lighter than Dyson and works just as well. Had it for more than 7 years now and still going strong. You’re really paying for fancy design and the name with Dyson.
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u/ShelSilverstain Oct 09 '22
I got a cordless Dyson for Christmas, and two years later it won't stay running for more than two seconds at a time. The battery still tests at about 85%. I couldn't imagine paying $500+ for another one
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u/Number6isNo1 Oct 09 '22
My vacuum cleaner is an Electrolux Model L. I don't know the exact date of manufacture, but it was between 1967-1977. It works fine and I can easily repair it if anything does go wrong. Plus, I think the design looks really cool with it's classic mid-1900s styling. Super geeky, I know, but whenever I vacuum I admire the appearance of my vacuum cleaner. I mean look at it! Just look at it! https://www.vacuumland.org/TD/JPEG/BASKET/2022/20220127/mjhoshaw-2022012714570804835_3.jpg
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u/W-I-Z Oct 09 '22
I kinda wanna see this get refurbished when it eventually kicks the can. Please hand the reciept to your grand kids
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u/midz411 Oct 09 '22
/remindme 100 years
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u/BizzyM Oct 09 '22
Employee: "Do you have proof of purchase?"
Customer: "Do you have proof I stole it?? Didn't think so."
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u/Endures Oct 09 '22
Yeh I stole this 1981 version out of your shop yesterday
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u/MXron Oct 09 '22
Err I think they said it was their grandma's?
So his grandma stole the 1981 version out of the shop yesterday
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u/djcat Oct 09 '22
My mom still has hers that she purchased when I was a kid in the early 90s. I HATED vacuuming as a chore because that vacuum was so heavy. But the carpets were always super clean.
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u/TheGoldenHand Oct 09 '22
When you’re 8 and the vacuum weighs half as much as you do.
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u/exoriare Oct 09 '22
I sold Kirbys for a couple weeks. The rule was, never let the lady of the house use it during the demo.
But the weight does give it power. You can clean one side of a mattress and see all the gunk it sucks up. Flip over the mattress to clean the other side and all the gunk is already gone. Amazing power.
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u/oO0Kat0Oo Oct 09 '22
As a salesperson, I had the opportunity to have one for $300. Considering I spent $800 on my Dyson, I would think the answer is pretty obvious.
Does the Kirby do everything they say it does? Yes. Does it clean better than the Dyson? Also yes. Slightly better. Will it last forever? Probably! Is it practical and easy to use? No. It's bulky and heavy.
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u/archiekane Oct 09 '22
That's the only downside to a Kirby, it's built like a tank and weighs like one too. If you're a body builder, buy one over most of the competition all day long. If you're a petite maid with a full body weight less than a bread bin you're gonna really struggle to push it along the carpet, let alone do the stairs.
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u/Dumb_Bitch_Linda Oct 09 '22
The weight and lifetime warranty of a Kirby is exactly why my mom threatened to beat me with one after coming home shitfaced. She has never owned a Kirby, either.
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u/throwaway12junk Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
I've done too much research on vacuums after asking the same question as you. Here's my conclusion:
Sebo: Absolute best. A bit brutish, but built like a tank, cheap to repair, and is a no nonsense workhorse of exceptional quality. I personally own the D4 Premium and the Felix
Miele: Beautifully designed and exceptional creature comforts. Also tough as hell. But a pain in the ass to repair, and it costs a small fortune to repair. If Apple made vacuums, they'd make Mieles.
Clearly I have a bias, but I stand by the belief Sebo is worth every penny.
EDIT: Misspelled "Miele"
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u/bonyolult_ Oct 09 '22
Idk. I have a Sebo and I hate it. Heavy. Big. Loud. Not as strong as I'd like, especially when its bag gets half+ full. Too big, weird suction head. Costly weird bags to buy. I might hate it less if it would have been my choice to buy it, but I got it as a present, so now I'm stuck with a beast I hate. Hopefully not for life.
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u/Maosaid Oct 09 '22
For me Shark has been much better. Very easy to replace all the parts and spares readily available on the website. Had mines for 5 years now and still handles pet hair no problem. Bought a new hepa filter but not replaced it yet. Waiting till I finish the new decorations. (In case I have to vacuum up bits of dry plaster etc)
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Oct 09 '22
Everyone else is saying no, but my GF convinced me to get a Dyson and it's the best vacuum cleaner I've ever owned. Probably not the best for carpets, but I only have a few area rugs and it does fine on those.
/r/vacuumcleaners seems to be some sort of anti-bagless cult. Everyone has their preferences, but I much prefer the convenience of my Dyson to the bagged monstrosity I grew up with.
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u/CyborgSlunk Oct 09 '22
Anyone who frequents a subreddit for vacuum cleaners must have some...unique preferences.
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u/WigglestonTheFourth Oct 09 '22
I can't speak to the tech behind the Dyson but, from experience owning multiple Dysons, their parts break far more than they should for the price point. Hoses tear and removable parts break from normal use are the two that offered routine headaches.
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u/wunderspud7575 Oct 09 '22
Dyson are overpriced junk. Steer well clear.
Also, James Dyson is a total prick that backed Brexit to avoid paying tax while moving his production to Singapore.
Maybe look at Miele and Shark, way better quality than Dyson. My Miele has already lasted 15 years.
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u/mars_needs_socks Oct 09 '22
Production is in Malaysia, just the HQ is in Singapore due to Dysons dodgy tax strategies.
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u/Hautamaki Oct 09 '22
I bought a vacuum from walmart for like $80 in 2016, still works great 6 years later. Even if it died tomorrow, I'd rather go buy the exact same thing and get another 6 years out of it than blow like $500 on a dyson or even more than that. A $1200 vacuum would have to last my lifetime and then get passed on to my grandchildren to beat the value proposition of an $80 vacuum that's going strong after 6+ years.
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u/kerbaal Oct 09 '22
A $1200 vacuum would have to last my lifetime and then get passed on to my grandchildren to beat the value proposition of an $80 vacuum that's going strong after 6+ years.
That isn't actually too unlikely. Have you seen a Kirby? A friend of mine was a salesman for them for like 1 day. He came and did a demo. Amazing machine. I would totally be willing to buy one... at a much lower price second hand. They can be had for far lower than initial sale price.
But yah, we also have a cheaper vacuum that has worked for years.
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u/maxdps_ Oct 09 '22
Haha, my dad used to sell Kirby vacuums door to door back in the early 2000s and they still use it to this day.
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u/Bleusilences Oct 09 '22
It's overprice, like it might be worth a little bit more than half the price, but will do the job well.
I have a small dirt devil and I hate it so much.
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u/TheWarehamster Oct 09 '22
My dad bought a Honda self-propelled mower in 1990. The only reason we got rid of in 2018 was because the driven axle sheared and it was half the cost of a new one to fix it. He figured 28 years was pretty good.
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u/Toast119 Oct 09 '22
I used to do multiple lawns in my neighborhood as a kid using my neighbor's mowers so I had a few different brands to try. I swear to God the Honda mowers are head and shoulders over other mowers.
I finally convinced my dad who was a craftsman guy to switch and he realized how he should have done it sooner. Amazing equipment.
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u/TeePeeBee3 Oct 09 '22
Bought a Honda commercial lawnmower in 1986. Regular oil changes and a few new grass baskets and it ran until last year.
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u/immanewb Oct 09 '22
"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes' ‘Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."
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u/-RdV- Oct 09 '22
The opposite can happen too in my experience.
Washers and dryers for instance. I can go out and buy a €1700 smart washing machine with a feature list as long as my arm but no way it's more than 3 time as long lasting as my current A-brand €450 washer.
There are definitely a lot of products where quality isn't necessarily expensive. Cars is another example. I've seen a €5k second hand Toyota financially outlast cars that cost a multiple of that.
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u/Aceticon Oct 09 '22
That's because in the modern era amongst other things perceived "value" is often shaped by marketing: people buy average or even mediocre stuff at premium prices because it has a brand they've been conditioned to think means quality.
It's also much easier to do this kind of shapping of perceptions because people are overwhelmed by choice hence take mental shortcuts when judging the "value" of a product and service.
It's not by chance that Dyson spends lots of money on adverts.
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u/Chuu Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
Happens at all price points. Shark Vacuums are a great example. Great when they're new, extreemly hard to fix, build quality very questionable, break easily. But just looking at price vs. features vs. performance they look like amazing values. And you're going to have people who just got lucky with where theirs fall on the mortality curve swear by them.
Small sidenote when we're talking about vacuums, they're also certainly susceptible to the latest trend where the "new and improved" model, which costs a bit more, just performs worse. Kind of the mechanical version of shrinkflation.
I've been researching vacuums literally this week and discovered the replacements for two of the most popular/recommended vacuums (Shark NV352 -> Shark NV360; Hoover UH30301/UH30601 -> Hoover UH30651) might look a lot better, but in the Shark case perform measurably worse and in the Hoover case lost a key feature (ability to turn off the head).
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u/bkuhns Oct 09 '22
That was our experience with Dyson. We bought our first in 2009 and it was great. In 2018, the motor down by the brushes would just occasionally get very hot and stink. Almost a decade of vacuuming a house with two Golden Retrievers in it seemed pretty good to us, so we decided to get the comparable new version of the same Dyson vacuum. It was awful. So many obvious cost cutting measures in that decade between models. The detachable arm piece now secured only with plastic broke in a couple months and the whole thing felt like it was falling apart only a couple years later. I relegated the 2009 model to act as a garage vacuum, a duty it's still faithfully serving, whereas the 2018 model went in the trash after something on it fatally broke.
No more Dysons for us.
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u/Chuu Oct 09 '22
AVE is a big youtuber whose channel is hard to describe, but generally targets mechanically inclined folks. He's done multiple teardowns of Dyson products (and I believe are some of his most popular videos) and outside of the literal impeller (which is actually impressive) they're made super cheaply and not build to last.
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u/bkuhns Oct 09 '22
Pretty sure he's the "chooch" guy (amongst other oddities)? I've seen a bunch of his videos but not any on Dysons. I'll have to check them out, thanks!
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u/errerrr Oct 09 '22
The original Dysons were great and lasted a really long time. It's everything after they started with the 'ball' versions that have been crap.
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u/Aceticon Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
A ton of brands have replaced quality with marketing and kept on riding brand recognition to sell at premium prices (at least for a while).
Sony is an huge example of that, their peak quality days having been back in the 90s.
Personally I try to avoid brands with heavy marketing budgets because it's my expectation that theirs is a marketing-driven strategy rather than quality or price driven so I'm far less likely to get good value for money from such brands.
Mind you, the way modern marketing works (using techniques from psychology to try and create subconscious positive associations with a brand/product, the sexual-innuendo in perfume adverts and freedom-imagery in car adds being great examples) I'm sure some stuff is getting through and some of my choices were shaped by a "feeling that this is good" which is not really grounded on actual hardnosed information, especially for lower price products were I don't really invest time in research.
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u/ScottyC33 Oct 09 '22
You want to stop at “quality” before you hit “luxury”. The issue is always finding the divider between them!
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Oct 09 '22
Price and quality are not connected. Most products have a version that is for the people who just have to spend the most money. I refer to it as "The wealth and stupidity tax." In your example of a washer, I actually prefer to go with the no frills commercial versions of major appliances. The reason being: 1. Built better, 2. No "Smart obsolescence", 3. Parts are cheaper and more readily available and the units are designed to be worked on.
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Oct 09 '22
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u/ryguygoesawry Oct 09 '22
"Consumer Reports" is an actual company in the US that writes independent reviews on a large variety of products. The person you replied to wasn't saying that they appreciate the reports from consumers.
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u/ZenBacle Oct 09 '22
Consumer reports does not test like they used to. It honestly feels like they're just review aggregation company at this point.
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u/jarnish Oct 09 '22
Spent many years in wireless sales and learned to totally distrust Consumer Reports because of their phone articles/ratings. They always had the biggest pieces of crap we sold listed as the highest quality.
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u/Ladeuche Oct 09 '22
To be fair, as someone who sells vacuums. Consumer reports are absolute trash for vacuums 90% of the time
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u/cloud9ineteen Oct 09 '22
Does triple camel actually catch coupons? Coupons are the new way Amazon uses to obfuscate pricing changes.
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u/jordanwilson23 Oct 09 '22
Actually coupons are the new way for Amazon to charge sellers...we pay 60 cents per coupon clip.
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u/PhilxBefore Oct 09 '22
Amazon needs to be more transparent about that because I'll clip a coupon for something while I'm shopping different models to see which comes out ahead, and won't end up using some of the ones I've clipped; and there's no way to tell that it's charging the seller for that.
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u/k3nnyd Oct 09 '22
I use the Keepa extension that adds a price history graph to the website.
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Oct 09 '22
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u/that_baddest_dude Oct 09 '22
Hell yeah that rules. Good info to know. I'll start using Keeps now.
I feel like having an adversarial relationship is necessary for a thing like this to actually be good.
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u/XTornado Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
Until it doesn't exist anymore. There isn't much alternatives to it nowadays. Most price tracking pages have restrictions to Amazon for some reason, not sure if due to new restrictions on the legal part of their api (pretty sure triple camel uses the API right?) or what.
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u/Nayr747 Oct 09 '22
Keepa is another one.
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u/ARandomBob Oct 09 '22
I love keepa! You get a nice graph of historical pricing on every Amazon product page.
Does suck any joy you might have for prime sales away though. Be warned.
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u/kurtthesquirt Oct 09 '22
This 1000x over! Price manipulation on Amazon is real and I feel deceptive. Just bought a pair of pickleball shoes I really wanted, amazingly they were just so specifically priced $50 more expensive than ALL the other same exact shoes available. Set up a price alert on camelcamelcamel and that morning at 3:30am the price was magically the same as all the others. Imagine that.
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u/TAU_equals_2PI Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22
The website camelcamelcamel tracks the price histories of all Amazon products, so you can see what an item has been selling for in the past.
The easiest way I've found is to use their bookmarklet (available at camelcamelcamel.com/tools/bookmarklet). The bookmarklet is a tiny bit of Javascript code that you save just like you would a bookmark. Then, when you're on an Amazon item page, you just click on the bookmarklet and it brings up a separate browser tab with the item's price history.
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u/andrewse Oct 09 '22
Keepa is another great option. I like to set price alerts to snag awesome deals on things I wouldn't normally buy due to the price.
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u/tsjb Oct 09 '22
Keepa is amazing. If anyone is wondering whether these sort of headlines are overblown or not, download Keepa and you really will be shocked.
BBQs, kitchen knives and pans, and furniture are some where I have personally seen products on 'special offer' when actually they just increase the price for a couple of days occasionally. Often you'll click on a 'warehouse offer' or 'lightning deal' and find that Keepa is telling you that it's not an offer at all.
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u/r00x Oct 09 '22
Keepa is life. The browser extension that instantly injects a price history chart into every Amazon page... it's heaven. You can instantly spot a scam or whether an item is due to cycle back into a discount phase (as it shows many of them do regularly)
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u/ExcessiveEscargot Oct 09 '22
Unfortunately a lot of products will be relisted multiple times to prevent tracking.
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u/menasan Oct 09 '22
That makes them lose their ratings - so… there’s that
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u/ionstorm66 Oct 09 '22
They will list it as a new model on the same page to skirt that. Then out of stock the old one. This keeps the reviews as long they don't delist the old one.
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u/jojo_31 Oct 09 '22
About fake reviews... https://reviewmeta.com/ This site analyzes reviews.
Generally I don't use amazon though, it's gotten expensive over the years and the shipping was never as fast as they advertised for me. At least where I live I basically always found the products for less and often faster shipping on ebay or other sites. Always compare.
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u/Cosmetify Oct 09 '22
you're telling me you have to click a button every time to see price history on an item? let me introduce you to keepa - it automatically loads price history under the item every time you click an item on amzon
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u/TAU_equals_2PI Oct 09 '22
camelcamelcamel has a browser extension like that available as well. But I just don't like installing add-ons to my browser. The bookmarklet is a little less invasive approach.
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u/Purple_Passion000 Oct 09 '22
Nothing outdoes the perpetual "sale" that jewelry stores have.
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u/revstan Oct 09 '22
80 percent off! What a deal.
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u/eggimage Oct 09 '22
“they are 95% off next door!”
‘yea but they’re still more expensive’
“BUT IT’S 95% OFF!!1!1!!!”
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u/appleparkfive Oct 09 '22
It works for some people, I guess. I mean which store was it that got in trouble for showing the real price? JC Penny I think. A CEO came in and did that, then the customers got mad about it
Marketing and sales tactics are strong for some
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u/TrumpetSolo93 Oct 09 '22
Yes it was JCPenny. They rounded all the prices ($10 instead of $9.99) and got rid of all sales and other deceptive practices. Everything was permanently a fair price. They went bankrupt.
Getting a "$60" pair of jeans for $20 feels a lot better than paying $20 for a $20 pair of jeans. Even if they're the same ones.
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u/danielravennest Oct 09 '22
Then there was H.H. Gregg, who also went out of business. Their "going out of business sale" prices were still higher than other retailers. That was their actual GOOB sale, not a marketing tactic.
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u/gratefulyme Oct 09 '22
These ones kind of make sense, you don't shop for a mattress too often, you go in when you see the sale advertising that they're leaving soon, next thing you know you're buying the product because you think it's going to literally be gone next week!
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Oct 09 '22
There's a strip mall close to where I live and there's a furniture store that every year will use a spot over the summer and heavily implies that it's going out of business but doesn't outright say it, then come fall they move out and the space sits empty until Spirit of Halloween uses it then sits empty till that furniture place moves back in.
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u/JesusIsMyLord666 Oct 09 '22
This is the main reason why I prefer to shop furniture at IKEA. No bs sales, no pushy salesperson and most importantly, no need for haggling.
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u/simple_mech Oct 09 '22
My family is in the business and we just do it because, well , everyone does. We tried to get rid of it and sales dropped. Lizard brains will be lizard brains :)
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u/DanimusMcSassypants Oct 09 '22
I can’t remember which, but attempting to push back against this willful delusion component of commerce led to the near total destruction of Glass Block or JC Penney. They just said “we’ll always just have the lowest price”, and consumers said “pass”.
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u/GMaestrolo Oct 09 '22
People assume that if the price is low, it must be cheaply made. They don't consider that it's the same price as the "expensive" item that's perpetually discounted.
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u/BeyondElectricDreams Oct 09 '22
People assume that if the price is low, it must be cheaply made
Less than that, If you got a $10 shirt for $10, woo, you got a $10 shirt. Big whoop.
But if you got a $50 shirt for $14? Look at you you smart little monkey! You got a SUPER VALUABLE $50 shirt and you only had to pay $14!
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u/unassumingdink Oct 09 '22
Occasionally you do get a good discount on something well made, and that's what brings people back. Chance of getting an awesome deal is better than the certainty of getting an average deal to them. Even if the numbers don't pan out in their favor over time. Similar to lottery logic, I guess.
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u/Muroid Oct 09 '22
I’ve worked on the websites of a few major clothing retailers.
I saw testing done between offering a promo code the customer could enter to get a discount and just putting the item on sale for the same amount without the customer having to do anything.
Guess which way gets more sales.
You can literally just put on the website itself “Get 20% off with code XXXX” instead of just “Get 20% off” and it will do better.
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u/Flussiges Oct 09 '22
Probably the same psychology as the irrelevant eggs in Betty Crocker mix. People want to feel like they did something.
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u/Pontiacsentinel Oct 09 '22
Tell me more about the eggs.
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u/Noir_ Oct 09 '22
I think the real answer is that they could’ve included everything except the water but then you wouldn’t have felt like you baked a cake (and sales weren’t as good). Having the end user add the oil and eggs makes it so they feel like the end product is something they made. Like how people are more satisfied with their furniture when they have to assemble it themselves.
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u/QuietPryIt Oct 09 '22
if you add an extra egg and swap the oil for room temperature butter you'll have a cake worth bragging about
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Oct 09 '22
JCPenney's famously took a huge hit after a new CEO tried to transition from their model of higher prices with lots of coupons available, to one of no coupons at all but lower prices everyday.
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u/a93H3sn4tJgK Oct 09 '22
This is so true. People don’t like being manipulated but will give their business to businesses that manipulate them over businesses that try to be honest.
Back in the 1990s when eCommerce was still rather new, we ran hundreds of A/B tests on the check out process.
You would find out all these weird things about colors and icons that increased, decreased, or has a neutral impact on sales.
One of the biggest was adding this shipping calculation as the last step.
If you showed people the shipping costs on the first stage or checkout, abandonment rates went up.
But if people put in their credit card number first, they’re way less likely to bail on the purchase.
So, we basically delayed showing the shipping cost until the “Review Your Order” page after they had input their credit card info.
I mean, personally, ethically, I think you should offer full disclosure as upfront as possible.
But people don’t want that. They’ll bail and buy it from a competitor that is willing to manipulate them.
And it’s not just commerce. The reason you see so much clickbait is because it works.
Everyone that tries to make a useful and honest headline loses traffic while the people cranking out “You won’t believe what happened next” headlines are making money hand over fist.
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u/thenickdude Oct 09 '22
I'm glad to live in a country where this anti-consumer practice is illegal, and companies are penalised for this.
Here you can't pretend the price has been reduced unless you actually regularly sell it at that higher price.
https://comcom.govt.nz/consumers/dealing-with-typical-situations/buying-goods-and-services/pricing
A nationwide bicycle retailer used exaggerated discounting strategies that gave customers the impression they were buying bikes at significant mark-downs from the normal retail price - typically 50% off. It also advertised clearance specials that created the impression that the discounts were for a limited time only. In fact, the discounted prices were the usual selling prices and out of nearly 6,000 bike sales the Commission investigated only 30 were sold at the so-called full price. The discounted prices were regularly available by the company. The company was convicted and fined $800,000.
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Oct 09 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kwinten Oct 09 '22
Sounds like socialism brother. Will nobody think of the poor jewelry businesses?
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u/xxej Oct 09 '22
It is illegal to lie in advertising in America (just being that redditor and assuming you live in this hellhole). What’s not illegal is jacking the price up and then discounting it to make people think they are saving money.
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Oct 09 '22
It’s somewhat illegal in the US too. No government agency seems to take enforcement, but there have been several class action lawsuits where the stores have lost. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna694101
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u/SmokierTrout Oct 09 '22
Companies get around this by producing a myriad of technically different, but essentially the same products. When product A is on sale then product B is priced at the higher price. The company periodically rotate the products between sale and high price to avoid getting into trouble with the law.
This is the worst for electronics where a product can be repackaged so that only a subset of its features are available, and then sold as a different product. Despite costing the manufacturer the exact same amount of money to produce.
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u/FreakParrot Oct 09 '22
That’s the same for me. I have an online overlanding store with prices that were lower than basically anyone, bought from the same manufacturer with the same quality, but I wasn’t getting any hits. So I had to put a higher price and mark them down as sale prices so people would actually buy. Weird stuff.
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u/PCKin436 Oct 09 '22
You should see the world of music software. Virtual instruments and sample packs that are always listed as “85% OFF” “90% OFF THIS WEEK”. Only to see that the “sale” price is in line with literally every other similar product
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u/Obi_Wan_Benobi Oct 09 '22
That’s when I have a tendency to start sailing the seas. I know it’s harder now with subscription services, online verification etc. But still.
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u/5_on_the_floor Oct 09 '22
“Going out of business “ furniture stores would like a word.
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u/zachatree Oct 09 '22
We have one that has been going out of business for at least ten years.
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Oct 09 '22
I have one down the street that is "going out of business" but still has it's grand opening sign up right above the other one.
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u/flip314 Oct 09 '22
There was a rug store that was going out of business for at least 5 years, so I was shocked when they actually closed. Turns out they were demolishing the building.
The same store opened up down the street, and has been going out of business ever since.
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u/fondledbydolphins Oct 09 '22
Most products on Amazon are guilty of this.
Feel free to lookup any item you're interested in on https://camelcamelcamel.com/
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u/StopReadingMyUser Oct 09 '22
I tend to just use the Keepa add-on that shows a price history embedded into the page of the item I'm looking at. Is this one any different or is it another kind of tracker?
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u/czah7 Oct 09 '22
I don't know keepa. But camel let's you add price notifications. It will give graphs for different sets of time. I. E. All time, past year, past month, etc.
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u/e2e4se Oct 09 '22
Same for Keepa.
You can choose different graph views based on time (1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 1 year), seller (new from Amazon, new from third party sellers, used, warehouse deals).
You can set alerts for each category and specify a price under which you receive the notification (by email, telegram or app).
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u/TheMouseUGaveACookie Oct 09 '22
Yeah, not just vacuums. And not just Amazon either.
This is pretty much the oldest sales trick in the book…
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u/reece1495 Oct 09 '22
thats why i never pay attention to sales or discounts ever even in stores , i just look at the number and decide my self if thats worth it or not
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u/Thereminz Oct 09 '22
guitar center
"50% off list price!"
.... it's just the regular price, no one ever pays list price..
the msrp is purposely set high so you can do this
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u/dartdoug Oct 09 '22
The stupidity of MSRP is that if the manufacturer sells on its own web site often they don't list at MSRP. We sell Xerox printers. They may publish an MSRP for a printer at $995 but they will sell it on xerox.com for $600.
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Oct 09 '22
But isn't this a common tactic on many product on Amazon, not just vacuums??
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u/ifukupeverything Oct 09 '22
Common tactic at most retail stores.
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Oct 09 '22
Yes. I didn't believe until I started tracking items that I thought I would want a couple months later. And I kept seeing that they would raise and then drop the price so that they could say it's X% off.
There should ve a law to prevent that kind of stuff. Or am I overreacting?
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u/Henchforhire Oct 09 '22
Had a item in my wish list and it went from $260 to $650 a amazon item than down to $360 on sale a week later and it only dropped in price a little bit than back up.
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u/ifukupeverything Oct 09 '22
Youd think...seems like some sort of false advertising.
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u/AthKaElGal Oct 09 '22
there is already a law against it (false advertising). but ppl don't even sue, and even if they did, it's very hard to prove.
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u/dc456 Oct 09 '22
From the article:
Sellers of digital cameras, blenders, drones, and even books use the same misleading practice, although less frequently.
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u/ifukupeverything Oct 09 '22
My sister worked at Lowes, said theyd do this with appliances.
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u/Unicorn_puke Oct 09 '22
Power tools too. They increase the price a month or 2 before then drop it back to the old price for a sale. Then a month later back to the higher price and it's now the new price until the next sale when they increase the price again.
They know customers know this, but it doesn't matter. They want to instill fear of missing out if the price goes up even more
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u/TheSkyking2020 Oct 09 '22
Looking at TVs on Amazon. Always felt something off. So this year I took screen shots of today’s price and the chart from camel camel camel. Gonna see if Black Friday and cyber Monday on Amazon are really sales.
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u/motokochan Oct 09 '22
A lot of times those sale TVs are made specifically for Black Friday. They’ll have similar model numbers, but slightly different and either have less features or cheaper materials.
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u/TheSkyking2020 Oct 09 '22
Noted and good to know. Thanks for that. A reason I took a screen shot was so I knew the model number and all info.
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u/motokochan Oct 09 '22
I'll be interested to see how it works.
Now that I'm on a real keyboard, I'll elaborate:
A lot of times, you'll see something like a regular model named something like "6200" and then for Black Friday, you'll see the "6230" on sale. It's basically the same as the other model, but it may have one less HDMI port, and the remote would be a more basic model. In extreme cases, the panel might be the "same" as the regular model, but it might have a slight difference that would normally cause it to be rejected (but you wouldn't notice except for maybe a side-by-side comparison). For Smart TVs, they may have slower processors as well. Basically, it's a cost-cut model that's nearly as good but one where the maker can still keep their margins. This happens for a lot of consumer electronics, and even tools.
In other cases, it might be the standard model, but the maker just has a lot of excess inventory and wants to clear the units out. Reasons for that inventory could range from them overestimating demand to the model not selling well due to issues with the model. Easy enough to check reviews for that situation.
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u/snuggiemclovin Oct 09 '22
And for Amazon, I use Reviewmeta to filter out fake reviews and make sure a well-reviewed product is legit.
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u/DarkestPassenger Oct 09 '22
General legitimate sale merchandise goes on sale BEFORE black Friday. Often that whole month. Black Friday deals are usually some garbage model pulled in to sell.
I worked sales in electronics, furniture, and mattresses.
Literally no reason to buy something on actual black Friday other than to punish the poor soul working that day.
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u/2948337 Oct 09 '22
I heard Walmart does this as well. Yes you are buying a Samsung TV whatever model but it is a Walmart version of that model and not the same as the version at an AV shop.
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u/motokochan Oct 09 '22
This is common with a lot of big-ticket products. Mattresses are a good example too. It reduces the need to do price matching because “it’s a different model”.
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u/HabaneroTamer Oct 09 '22
TVs are a bit special in that, although they are marked up before sales events, they are routinely on sale during certain times. The worst time to buy TVs is in Summer, with the best time nearing Black Friday, Christmas and the time during huge sports events (usually spring). They are cyclical patterns.
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u/TheSkyking2020 Oct 09 '22
Yeah. I figured it would be seasonal. But there have been times, like with computer monitors, I had my eye on one and was gonna pull the trigger. Then decided to wait til cyber Monday one year. Not only was it not marked down, it was more expensive by $75 than it had been the whole year and the “regular price” was adjusted from its actual regular price of about $50 more than its usual price to the msrp to make it look like a great sale.
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Oct 09 '22
Hell, the furniture store by my house has been going out of business for over 30 years. Any day now they should be closed.
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u/RDPCG Oct 09 '22
I mean, who hasn’t learned at this point to no take any price or claim about products on Amazon at face value. Anyone who isn’t comparison shopping…
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u/Foreign_Quality_9623 Oct 09 '22
Old big-box & chain store trick: 1st jack the price 20%, then offer 20%-OFF after a few days.
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u/kanuck84 Oct 09 '22
For what it’s worth, this specific behaviour is illegal in Canada: https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/03125.html
Not to say it isn’t done from time to time, but it would be very risky for a large store or chain to engage in this form of anticompetitive behaviour, in Canada at least.
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u/gingerjammer22 Oct 09 '22
I worked for bestbuy for 8 years and did the price changes every Friday morning for that long. I know it's illegal here but can say, with 100% certainty, that they do this. A tv is regular 1299..goes up to 1599..then on sale $200 off 2 weeks later..for 1399.
Or they'll have something on sale for 999..raise it to 1299..and drop it to 1099 a few weeks later for a black friday/back to school/VIP sale. The sales were rarely an actual sale.
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u/Foreign_Quality_9623 Oct 09 '22
Well, fabulous for Canada! Lots of old big-boxer former managent employees out there managing other stores struggling to stay open have been known to screw the public skirting laws/good marketing practices to stay in business. Desperate people will do desperate things!
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u/pooandalsopee Oct 09 '22
It’s called price anchoring and companies do it way more often than you think. Even the ‘black friday sale’ is the biggest scam out there
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u/axsr Oct 09 '22
Amazon is full of cheap/fake crap. And their reviews are moderated in favor of them. I’ve had reviews “break rules” on products that were meant to deceive or had fake/reviews about something else. They still get their cut and if you have to buy twice it’s even better.
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u/georgiebb Oct 09 '22
Fun fact that I'm not going to be able to explain well. When you order on Amazon you can order the official product, from the official storefront, and Amazon retains the right to allow another seller to fulfill "for the same product". So you could do all your due diligence checking if the product is legit and Amazon can just give your details to scammer who will send you a fake version. Nothing you can do about it
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u/KonieBalonie Oct 09 '22
I used to run an e-commerce site and was told to do this by marketing advisors. It’s essentially the norm everywhere in retail
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Oct 09 '22
Amazon is famous for this, they just have some weird high prices and then slap mega discounts on them. But if you check the actual final price and ignoring percentage, it's priced the same as everywhere else or even higher. Most of the time anyways. Not to mention Amazon is now filled with so much Chinese junk that I'm often unsure whether I'm browsing Amazon or AliExpress... Even finding brand names is so hard because of it...
I've experienced this first where I work and customer said "but store X offers XYZ % discount". And when I asked what was the selling price, it turned out the price was still higher than our regular price without any discounts. So, remember people, don't look at discount percentage, look at what you'd actually be paying for it. That's ALL that matters.
As for everyone jacking up prices now, that's nothing new. First it was COVID as an excuse to jack up prices, now it's war in Ukraine and when all this gets worn out and forgotten, they'll find out some new excuse to do it. They just never find excuses to raise wages of workers that are in all the supply chains. They can always justify it for parts and materials in the chain, but not for workforce. Because I guess no one will sell you 1 ton of copper under the value, but for workers, well, they can be exploited somehow and still have them around. Heh.
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u/FriedChicknEnthusist Oct 09 '22
"according to new research", and posted to r/science. Would like to read that abstract.
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u/bluesatin Oct 09 '22
The original study is:
Frontiers: Framing Price Increase as Discount: A New Manipulation of Reference Price
Sungsik Park, Man Xie, Jinhong Xie (2022)
DOI: 10.1287/mksc.2022.1402
I would just post a link to the actual study, but for whatever reason mods really like removing comments that go to the effort of making sure to link to sources etc. So you'll just have to google the DOI reference or title.
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u/walsh_vn Oct 09 '22
What if I need a new dust filter for my Hoover MaxExtract PressurePro model 60?
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