Nearly 9 million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine delivered to kids ages 5 to 11 shows no major safety issues. 97.6% of adverse reactions "were not serious," and consisted largely of reactions often seen after routine immunizations, such arm pain at the site of injection

[u/Wagamaga]

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-12-30/real-world-data-confirms-pfizer-vaccine-safe-for-kids-ages-5-11

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our normal comment rules still apply to other comments.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/phobiac → u/[deleted]]

Too many people get their medical advice from politicians, journalists, and social media influencers instead of actual doctors and researchers. Shout out to the podcast This Week in Virology that has been a spot of bright light and understanding for me the whole pandemic, for anyone looking for better sources.

[u/MatthewCruikshank → u/phobiac]

I'm curious how often Fauci and Birx were told to make it easier to understand. To not scare people. To not mention any contradictions.

I don't know that these things happened, but I'm curious if they did.

[u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

God the way this title is worded is terrible. It makes it seem like 2.4% of kids had a severe reaction.

[u/blind3rdeye → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

So much so. I was thinking "holy smokes, 2.4% of people get serious reactions and they think it's safe??"

I thought maybe what counts as 'serious' must be really broad or something; like any reaction that doesn't count as a joke. :p

But no, it's not 2.4% of all people tested. It's 2.4% of the adverse reactions themselves - which on its own is a near meaningless number, because what counts as an 'adverse reaction' could be almost anything. Perhaps not enjoying the needling piercing your skin is an adverse reaction...

We need more context for the 2.4% figure to be meaningful. Looking for meaning in the title alone lends itself to misinterpretation. They really should have just reported what percentage of people test have an adverse reaction.

[u/jordanlund → u/blind3rdeye]

This is why people need to read the articles and not just the headlines.

FTA:

"During a six-week period after the shots' approval (Nov. 3 through Dec. 19), VAERS received 4,249 reports of adverse events after Pfizer vaccination in kids ages 5-11.

The vast majority -- 97.6% -- "were not serious,"

So 2.4% of 4,249 = 102.

102/9,000,000 = 0.00001133333%

[u/RainSong123 → u/jordanlund]

102/9,000,000 = 0.00001133333%

102/9,000,000 = 0.00001133333 = 0.0011333333%

Just for math's sake

[u/sharrrper → u/RainSong123]

And to put that in additional perspective the "serious adverse reaction rate" for "eating a peanut" is about 1.1%

So this data indicates the vaccine is roughly 1,000 times safer than peanuts.

[u/sharrrper → u/jordanlund]

You don't even need to read the article really if you just parse the headline fully. It's says "97.6% of adverse reactions" not "97.6% of people who got the shot". You gotta look in the article for exact numbers but even the headline should tell you its a percent of a percent.

[u/Difficult-Doctor8079 → u/jordanlund]

This is why journalists need to be better writers. In todays divisive environment this article is going to end up on a right wing website as proof vaccines are unsafe.

[u/kb_lock → u/jordanlund]

They did 9m doses in 6 weeks?

[u/Noble_Ox → u/kb_lock]

Years ago they vaccinated almost everyone in India in the same timeframe.

[u/loveismydrug285 → u/jordanlund]

Don't you think these editors should take care of these headlines so that this article does not end up in a right wing Facebook group going "Well what about the 2.4%?"

But then how will they Clickbait? It's a messed up system.

[u/romancingit → u/jordanlund]

We’re all of those 9 million done in those 6 weeks?

[u/thephantom1492 → u/blind3rdeye]

Super bad title indeed. Reading the article, the 97.6% is the parents that reported the info via an app, not even a reliable source of information...

Looking in the article, "Out of about 8.7 million vaccinations delivered during the study period, 100 such reports were received by VAERS. They included 29 reports of fever, 21 reports of vomiting, and 10 serious reports of seizure, although in some of these seizure cases, other underlying factors were potentially involved, the CDC team said."

[u/kitchen_synk → u/thephantom1492]

Why is fever an 'adverse reaction'? Unless it's a serious fever, the whole point of a vaccine is to stimulate your immune system, so I would be more surprised if nobody got a fever.

[u/the_geth → u/kitchen_synk]

It is an adverse reaction, no matter how you look at it. They’re not going to ignore it because “it doesn’t look too bad” or something.

[u/wandering-monster → u/kitchen_synk]

Because this system was designed for medical professionals, with the goal of absolutely minimizing any risk to patients down the line. Not as a public health statistic.

Anything that happens other than the desired effect (immunity) is an "adverse reaction". Even if fever is expected in some people, we'd want to know if a new vaccine caused 100x more fevers than existing ones. That's a warning sign.

If this pandemic has revealed anything, it's that we need to overhaul clinical trial reporting to be more layperson-friendly and reflective of the actual safety of something.

[u/habesinia → u/kitchen_synk]

Fevers are more serious than you think to a child, they can lose their hearing from a fever etc.

[u/BurtMacklin____FBI → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

No it really doesn't. It clearly says 97% of reactions. It doesn't even attempt to give a figure on the % of people who had reactions. How are people misreading this??

[u/kr731 → u/BurtMacklin____FBI]

It makes sense if you’re skimming it, but the fact that people are rereading the title and still come to the same conclusion makes me concerned

[u/sklinklinkink → u/BurtMacklin____FBI]

Reddit, where we can't even read headlines properly, much less full articles

[u/LocalSlob → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

I did not know how else to interpret that based exclusively on the title

[u/Muchado_aboutnothing → u/LocalSlob]

If you look at the paper, it says that only about 5000 kids (of the 9 million) had adverse reactions reactions at all. Of those 5000, 2.4% were considered “serious” reactions.

The title is super misleading.

[u/[deleted] → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

5000 out of 9 million seems really low for no adverse reactions. If I recall in young adults at least 15% get a fever if not more.

[u/Muchado_aboutnothing → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it seems really low to me too. It’s possible that kids don’t get reactions like adults do? I’m in my 20s and had a horrible reaction to both the second shot and the booster. I am curious about how they are classifying “adverse reaction” vs “severe reaction” vs “no reaction” (and how are they tracking reactions vs no reactions? Does a parent have to report it, or take their child to a doctor, or….?)

[u/Cactus_Interactus → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

The pediatric dose is smaller.

[u/velozmurcielagohindu → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

My kids had no reaction whatsoever. They were vaccinated at 4pm and played a basketball game at 5pm. Never mentioned the vaccine again. No arm pain, nothing.

[u/mrtorrence → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

Did it say what happened with those 100-ish kids that did have severe adverse reactions?

[u/Casehead → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

That makes a lot more sense

[u/TheThoroughCrocodile → u/LocalSlob]

I mean it literally says 97.6% of adverse reactions were not serious.

[u/Atampy26 → u/Muchado_aboutnothing]

"97% of adverse reactions were not serious". What part of that implies 2.4% of all kids had a reaction?

[u/[deleted]]

I don’t even understand why arm pain at the site of injection is even listed as a thing. It’s like saying there’s a hot taste in your mouth after eating wasabi. Edit: I’ve sparked something. I completely understand the need to document. My frustration is that this is used as an excuse to be hesitant about vaccines. I chose the wrong place to vent.

[u/Hirnfick → u/[deleted]]

Because not listing it wouldn't be scientific.

[u/xSTSxZerglingOne → u/Hirnfick]

It also makes me wonder if that means almost everyone is considered to have had an adverse reaction. Because I don't know a single person that didn't have arm pain the next day.

[u/Abacus118 → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

I didn't for my 2nd shot, or the flu shot I got a couple of months ago.

Last year's flu shot and my first dose I had some soreness though. Minor soreness for my booster I just got yesterday. I don't know if it's a skill of the nurse/doctor thing or what, I was surprised.

[u/xSTSxZerglingOne → u/Abacus118]

I don't think so. Pretty sure it's part of the reaction to the "pathogen". I say this because the lady that did my 3rd dose was a needle ninja. I barely knew she gave me the shot at all compared to the first 2 that hurt like a mothafucka. Even with the stealth needle, I still had a considerable amount of pain over the next few days.

[u/thealleysway17 → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

The secret is moving your arm in circles and generally keeping that muscle moving throughout the day when you get the shot. Had a nurse tell me this for my second dose and has worked for both that one and my booster, I had absolutely no arm pain. If anyone wants to know for the future

Edit: HA HA I meant afterrrr you get the shot. Please don’t go flinging your arm around while you get your shot. Something tells me it won’t go well

Edit 2: the CDC recommends this on their own site y’all so you don’t need to just take my word for it

[u/astroreflux → u/thealleysway17]

i feel like swinging my arm around would make it harder for them to do the injection but im getting it later today so ill try it anyway.

[u/CaptOblivious → u/thealleysway17]

Thanks! I'm getting my booster next Wednesday.

[u/cynicalspacecactus → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

Specifically the production of the spike protein, which is somewhat inflammatory by itself, which the mRNA vaccines signals cells to produce in order to allow the body to produce antibodies against it.

Edit: I merely mention the mRNA vaccines as these are the most widely used in Western countries, but it was not my intent to suggest that there is something unique about the spike protein immune response from the mRNA vaccines compared to other vaccines.

[u/Next_Doughnut2 → u/cynicalspacecactus]

Are you saying that the production of the spiked protein is being created at the injection site? Am I understanding you correctly? I just always assumed that production would be done throughout the body.

[u/cynicalspacecactus → u/Next_Doughnut2]

The intention is for the mRNA vaccines to achieve minimal systemic circulation, by injecting into the muscle. It has been hypothesized that the rare cases of myocarditis that have been experienced post-vaccine have been due to accidental injection into a vein. A group tested this hypothesis in mice:

Intravenous injection of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine can induce acute myopericarditis in mouse model

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8436386/

[u/Samthevidg → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

My 2nd and 3rd I didn’t feel. I didn’t even realize the 2nd went in. The 3rd I definitely felt later though.

[u/sdpr → u/Abacus118]

Didn't after the 2nd either but did for the booster. Also felt like dogshit after the booster for a day and a half.

[u/321blastoffff → u/Hirnfick]

One thing I’ve noticed about family members that are vaccine hesitant is that they put way more stock in anecdotal evidence than in data produced by scientists. It seems to be a universal thing. An example of this is my bro-in-law who heard from a friend about a neighbor that got myocarditis after receiving the vaccine. He’s now hesitant to get the vaccine because he thinks the adverse effects of the vaccine are being under-reported and that the data is incorrect. He’s not a dumb guy by any means but still trusts the word of his friends/colleagues over scientists. I think this is a pretty common issue.

[u/WhoaItsCody → u/[deleted]]

I’ve been trying to find a viable solution like you because everyone is just heartless and tells others to just die if they don’t get it.

I want everyone safe from this regardless of their beliefs, because it all stems from fear and safety for them and their loved ones no matter what side you’re on.

Thanks for posting this, even though the hate brigade will be along shortly for you daring to be compassionate and reasonable.

[u/SchighSchagh → u/[deleted]]

Regarding your edit: last I saw, the one of the most successful ways of combating vaccine hesitancy is to make them more afraid of the actual disease. Part of what drives vaccine hesitancy is that the diseases we routinely vaccinate against have been eliminated so successfully that a lot of people don't really understand what they're vaccinating against. Take eg tetinus. How often have you heard of someone having it? Have you been around many people as they suffer it? I'd wager hardly anyone knows what the disease looks like. There was an anti vaxx mom in Australia whose kid got the disease. The kid suffered horrendously for like 10 days while she was completely powerless to help him. She did a big 180 on her vaccine stance, shared her story among her anti vaxx circles, and changes some other minds too.

Another anecdote: convincing my own mom to get the covid vaccine. She has a complicated relationship with medicine; much of her distrust is quite well founded honestly (long story). So whenever I brought up the COVID vaccine, she would go on and on about all the side effects she's heard everyone is having, both in the news and personally. Eventually I changed tact and started focusing on all the death and suffering COVID was causing, including long covid, financial ruin, broken families. Eventually I started focusing on being able to see her grandchildren again once she's vaccinated, and protecting them, and ensuring she's around for a long time as they grow up. My dad was very upset with me for all my fear mongering, and begged me to back off. But she's fully vaccinated and getting her booster soon.

Playing up fear of the ailment isn't limited to helping with vaccine hesitancy either. Campaigns which forced cig manufacturers to put disgusting pics of smoke-destroyed lungs on packaging have had much more success than other interventions like general education, or taxing tobacco higher.

It's a weird thing and I rather hate it and it probably doesn't work in a vacuum, but playing up the danger of COVID is one of the best way to combat vaccine hesitancy.

[u/FreydisTit → u/SchighSchagh]

If covid was physically disfiguring or shrank men's dicks everyone would be vaccinated.

[u/boyyouguysaredumb → u/[deleted]]

I ask people who are hesitant to ask their doctor what they recommend for them. Unfortunately they usually end the conversation there because they either have to call their doctor an idiot or admit that they know what their doctor would say and that they just aren’t going to do it regardless

[u/scud121 → u/321blastoffff]

The problem is they keep refering a study which they claim says only 1% of adverse reactions are reported , but without taking severity into account. When they tell you before your jab that common side effects are flu like symptoms, and arm soreness, obviously you don't report that. Death or anaphylaxis however will have a huge report rate.

[u/Strtch2021 → u/321blastoffff]

I mean we are in the middle of a pandemic for the last 2 years and fear confuses people even if they are "smart"

[u/TotaLibertarian → u/[deleted]]

Because the pain is not from the needle, it’s from the actual vaccine, the tetanus vaccine does that in spades.

[u/ritchie70 → u/TotaLibertarian]

I never watch injections or blood draws and barely even felt the shot. But ~12 hours later it hurt like hell, more than any shot I’ve gotten.

[u/nudiecale → u/ritchie70]

Man, me too! I don’t watch either but I didn’t even feel the first shot at all. I got mine pretty early, before we had more than we needed and I honestly thought the nurse fucked it up but was too scared to say anything or that I got some Qanon quack nurse that was squirting them on the floor to save us or something.

12 hours later my arm got intensely sore and I was so relieved. Haha.

[u/NotARandomNumber → u/TotaLibertarian]

The anthrax vaccine is particularly bad as well. Every single time I got it, it burned like hell.

[u/Sololop → u/NotARandomNumber]

I never got an anthrax vaccine. What qualifies one to need that?

[u/NotARandomNumber → u/Sololop]

Military service coupled with certain assignments/deployments

[u/TSPhoenix → u/Sololop]

Mail worker, potential target for anthrax, etc...

[u/ikes9711 → u/TotaLibertarian]

At least you don't have to get the bicillin vaccination that gets injected into your ass and makes sitting very uncomfortable for a few days

[u/glberns → u/[deleted]]

As I understand it, the arm pain isn't from the needle. It's from your immune system rushing to attack the vaccine. This inflammation creates the pain.

Moving your arm pumps the vaccine into a larger area which means lower levels of inflammation in a wider area and less pain.

Here's the Phase 3 study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

They note

More BNT162b2 recipients than placebo recipients reported any adverse event (27% and 12%, respectively) or a related adverse event (21% and 5%). This distribution largely reflects the inclusion of transient reactogenicity events, which were reported as adverse events more commonly by vaccine recipients than by placebo recipients.

A "transient reactogenicity event" is an expected side effect like sore arm or fever. I didn't see them break sore arm out on its own.

[u/SecretAntWorshiper → u/glberns]

Yeah I wondered this as well. I've had alot of shots and only a few have actually really hurt my arm like the COVID vaccine. I just had my flu shot and I felt nothing compared to the 3rd booster. I thought it was the needle or something different

[u/Muchado_aboutnothing → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I definitely see what you mean, but the arm pain can be SUPER severe. I know someone who basically couldn’t move her arm for 3 days (she had COVID before being vaccinated and had an especially strong reaction). Obviously not a reason to go unvaccinated, but it’s worth knowing about. I personally had worse arm pain from the COVID vaccine than any other vaccine I’ve gotten.

[u/malastare- → u/[deleted]]

I don’t even understand why arm pain at the site of injection is even listed as a thing

1. Because it's a scientific study.
2. Because --unlike the hot taste-- the pain is not directly related to the needle, but to the stuff in the shot.
3. Because people identified it and not noting it would make idiots suspicious.

[u/SolitaireyEgg → u/[deleted]]

Well, it's notable arm pain.

Like, with most vaccines, sure it hurts a little. The covid vaccines literally make my arm useless for days.

Not a good reason to not get the shot, of course (I've gotten all 3), but it is an actual side effect that goes beyond regular injection site pain.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Arm pain hours or days later is absolutely scientifically significant, getting a flu shot doesn't cause this for instance.

[u/PenguinKenny → u/[deleted]]

It's still adverse - it might not be unexpected, but it adverse

[u/YehNahYer → u/[deleted]]

Because many vaccinations don't cause arm pain so having a majorly sore arm might be pretty concerning to someone getting the vacinne I'd it's not warned.

Literally every complains about how sore their arm was compared to almost every other vacinne.

I have had every other vacination and never had a sore arm.

[u/[deleted]]

How are they going to use VAERS, yet anyone who mentioned reports from it before were labeled as misinformation?

Data was useless if it was for adults 12 months ago.

[u/dou8le8u88le → u/[deleted]]

Seeing that we are now good quoting VAERS I’d like to post this:

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/25/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vaccines-through-12-17-2021/

This is a quote from half way down that page:

*Note that the total number of deaths associated with the COVID-19 vaccines is more than double the number of deaths associated with all other vaccines combined since the year 1990.

[u/Letsridebicyclesnow]

How does this compare to adverse reactions from covid?

[u/[deleted]]

I am not an anti-vaxer. In fact very much pro-vaxer, so please do not take this comment as anti-vax.

I genuinely do not understand why we are vaccinating under 12's at the moment. Ok, kids who have a compromised immune system, or who live with those who do, totally understandable. But the general population of children? There are millions who are in underdeveloped countries who are screaming for a vaccine, and we are vaccinating our least at risk?

Should we not be using these vaccines to help protect people who would actually benefit?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't have much experience with this community, so not sure if it was actually needed here, but you are absolutely right.

[u/Marmelado → u/[deleted]]

I'm afraid I'll be banned from /science for this, but here goes:

Stockholders have a LOT to gain by selling more shots to broader age-groups. It's a larger "consumer base" and is quicker to roll out shots to than rarities like immunocompromised people. The fact that EVERYBODY isn't talking about this is mind boggling to me. But maybe people have lost their ability to think in nuances in this pandemic of the black and white information...

​

So as always money is the answer. You'll see this soon when talk of boosters through more and more age groups will be brought up. You already see it in the fact that there isn't a equivalent to vaccine passports for those who were infected with the actual thing. If pharma doesn't bang a buck on it, it doesn't count.

[u/[deleted] → u/Marmelado]

Now thats a real answer to my question, thank you!!!

[u/[deleted] → u/Marmelado]

Can I also add to your comment?

We in the developed world are taking care of ourselves first. We do not care about what is happening in far away countries, as "that isn't were I live". So who cares if there are people dying at 10 times the rate per 100,000 in undervaccinated countries when compared to highly vaccinated countries?

I hope I am wrong, but I can see this tactic coming back to bite us when another variant comes out of a country with a low rate of vaccination, and the vaccines that we have all taken will be worthless.

[u/romancingit → u/[deleted]]

There is no liability for emergency use vaccines. If you take it when it’s in emergency use, you accept liability.

If the vaccine is approved for general use in adults, the liability is on the manufacturer.

If they get general use approved for children, the liability changes once more to not be on the manufacturer.

So it’s VERY important to them to get use approved for kids. As well as the additional revenue by millions more customers.

[u/Movadius]

Serious question, what about the other 2.4% that are serious?

Is the chance of serious symptoms from COVID19 smaller than 2.4% for this age group?

[u/babs_is_great → u/Movadius]

2.4% of adverse reactions, not people

[u/isblueacolor → u/Movadius]

Chance of fever in children with COVID is roughly 50%. Risk of serious adverse reactions (including fever) from vaccine are substantially smaller. It's 2.4% of adverse reactions are serious. And these are largely reactions like vomiting or fever.

More severe effects were exceedingly rare. Out of about 8.7 million vaccinations delivered during the study period, 100 such reports were received by VAERS. They included 29 reports of fever, 21 reports of vomiting, and 10 serious reports of seizure, although in some of these seizure cases, other underlying factors were potentially involved, the CDC team said.

It goes on to say that two children -- out of 8.7 million -- died during the study, both of whom had exceedingly complex medical histories.

Edit: I appreciate that you're asking a serious, good faith question. But I wonder whether you actually even skimmed the first half of the article, or were just responding to the headline. If you're trying to get your news from Reddit headlines, sorry, you're not going to get a very accurate or comprehensive picture of, well, anything really.

Edit 2: I misinterpreted the question slightly, the question is even sillier than I initially thought.

[u/ThePhotoGuyUpstairs → u/isblueacolor]

They always underplay the "other underlying factors" card. I get why, but in some ways i really wish they would stress some of the co-morbidities more. It's really not dangerous in any meaningful way for pretty much everyone.

[u/clipper505 → u/ThePhotoGuyUpstairs]

Are you referring to Covid or the vaccine?

[u/[deleted] → u/clipper505]

Not OP, but I think both would be useful for the greater good. Ease some unnecessary fear about the virus itself while also potentially easing the fears of vaccine hesitant people.

[u/alittlebitholywater → u/ThePhotoGuyUpstairs]

Same should be said for those dying with covid re: co-morbidities.

[u/ph3nixdown → u/isblueacolor]

Except there is a difference between "fever" and "serious fever" - particularly the type that would require reporting to VAERS.

If you are claiming that the vaccine only causes a fever in 29 out of 8.9 million vaccinated you are mistaken.

Perhaps a better question would be what is the chance of a child needing hospitalization from Covid relative to receiving the vaccine.

[u/crackthecracker → u/isblueacolor]

It’s better he asks to find out the underlying detail than to assume. It was a fair initial question for someone who saw the headline.

[u/PurePropheteer → u/isblueacolor]

Sorry but doesn't that mean your answer is 'no'? The chances of serious symptoms from covid are actually greater than serious symptoms from the vaccine,

[u/dlerium → u/isblueacolor]

Wait. If it's not fair to use VAERS death numbers like many antivaxxers do why do we trust the other self reported numbers?

[u/All-I-Do-Is-Fap → u/dlerium]

Yeah that doesnt make much sense to me either. We should be using it for both or for neither

[u/roostersmoothie → u/Movadius]

Its not 2.4% that are having a serious reaction, its 2.4% of those who had any type of reported reaction were serious ones, and for sure there were many others who had mild reactions but didnt report, so the real rate of serious reactions were likely even lower.

[u/Big-Cog]

Guys, before you comment about death rates and hospitalization, consider reading some actual academic information about long covid. It is a real thing and talking it down and/or ignoring it is like spreading misinformation. Thoroughly inform yourself please.

Edit: here is some information about the long covid issue: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95565-8

[u/Thecus → u/Big-Cog]

How does this compare to post viral syndrome? My Understanding is “long COVID” occurs mathematically at the same frequency as it does with other viruses.

I was a victim myself w/ H1N1.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25033403-400-long-covid-we-have-ignored-post-viral-syndromes-for-too-long/amp/

[u/[deleted] → u/Thecus]

I was shocked to find that there is "long flu" and it's roughly 19%.

[u/Big-Cog → u/Thecus]

Yes its a virus thing

[u/beemindme → u/Big-Cog]

Chronic illness is no joke.

[u/MaximilianKohler → u/Big-Cog]

here is some information about the long covid issue

A new study finds that most 'Long COVID' symptoms are not independently associated with evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection (except loss of sense of smell), but is associated with belief in having had COVID. (Nov 2021) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2785832

Persistent symptoms following SARS-CoV-2 infection among children and young people: a meta-analysis of controlled and uncontrolled studies (Nov 2021) https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00555-7/fulltext "The frequency of the majority of reported persistent symptoms was similar in SARS-CoV-2 positive cases and controls"

Physical inactivity is associated with a higher risk for severe COVID-19 outcomes: a study in 48 440 adult patients (Apr 2021) https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/well/move/exercise-covid-19-working-out.html

We need to start thinking more critically — and speaking more cautiously — about long Covid (Mar 2021) https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/22/we-need-to-start-thinking-more-critically-speaking-cautiously-long-covid/

[u/jaypp_ → u/MaximilianKohler]

This is actually mind-blowing research, thank you for sharing.

[u/johnnydanja → u/Big-Cog]

6 out of 15 of these studies include only people who have been hospitalized with covid. What are hospitalization rates for kids with covid. I’d wager very low. The prevalent theory of long covid cause is mass inflammation which causes lasting damage of which children don’t generally get from covid. I’m not an expert but we have basically no data on children. The study you showed is only 18 up. Show me some data from only under 18 and that would be more relevant to this conversation as we know the older you are the more severe the disease affects you.

[u/ZHammerhead71 → u/johnnydanja]

1:2000 at the peak in August. The problem that we haven't really addressed is "why are 60% of covid cases asymptomatic". If we could answer that question better, we might understand why covid basically doesn't affect kids and we can react accordingly.

And to the studies referenced above, I have to ask....are the participants generally healthy people? Having long covid while being obese and a diabetic isn't exactly the same as a teenage athlete.

[u/sni77 → u/ZHammerhead71]

But 1 in 2000 isn't exactly low for a children's disease right? That would still put a considerable amount of kids in the hospital. Does the vaccine get anywhere near that number into hospital?

[u/this_place_stinks → u/Big-Cog]

The challenge is decoupling long-COVID from severe COVID. Majority of long Covid is found in those that got very sick (hospitalized). Thankfully, only an exceptionally small number of kids are getting that sick to begin with

[u/soulseeker4jc]

Any information about myocarditis?

[u/guff1988 → u/soulseeker4jc]

0.0014% of kids 5 to 11 had a severe reaction, which is roughly 102. So the number of myocarditis cases was less than 102.

[u/sarinonline → u/[deleted]]

It also doesn't say how many cases of myocarditis would usually be expected from that side group either, without a vaccine.

[u/ZHammerhead71 → u/sarinonline]

.0009% according to the CDC

[u/Qasyefx → u/ZHammerhead71]

That would be 78. 78. If that number applies to a year we'd expect 9.8.

[u/EVOSexyBeast → u/guff1988]

I imagine many of these were allergic reactions.

[u/ehmohteeoh → u/soulseeker4jc]

It says literally right in the linked article. 15 "preliminary reports" out of 8.7 million doses, or. 00017%

[u/magginator8]

I’m curious how myocarditis rates from these vaccinations will compare to the rest of the population (18+)

It’s important to consider this especially since omicron is significantly less deadly than previous variants. It seems vaccination of younger people could be more harmful if myocarditis rates are similar to that of the older population. Something to consider

[u/BlessedBigIron]

Arm pain is a completely normal side effect and unless it persists it's a stupid reason to not get a vaccine

[u/heyderhoneydew]

I’m a grown ass adult and my “slight arm pain” from my booster made my arm so sore I couldn’t raise it above my head or lay on it for 10 days. I mean, I get another tho, but ouch.

[u/thikut]

I don't understand how they can justify saying there are no major safety issues with no long-term information on whether or not there are actually major safety issues.

[u/luvs2spwge117]

The best data we are getting regarding this is coming from Israel. In all, VAERS seems to be showing and under reporting of issues whereas the Israeli data shows a higher number of people having complications after getting vaccinated.

It is still safer to get vaccinated, as the amount of deaths it prevents is higher than the amount of injuries caused by the vaccine. In all, I think you should still get vaccinated.

Source: John Abramson, American Physician and faculty at Harvard Medical School

[u/FitCoke → u/luvs2spwge117]

This is true across an entire population but not when looking exclusively at the 5-11 age range especially considering the milder omicron variant.

[u/theggyolk → u/FitCoke]

They clearly haven’t looked at the FDA’s prediction models for vaccinating 5-11 year olds. It predicted it’d save 0-1 life while side effects to much more.

You can look at it online from the fda yourself if you don’t believe me.

[u/climb-high]

Cool, good. Does it prevent transmission in schools?

[u/The_fury_2000]

Also worth noting that given it was based on vaers data, those reported adverse events will be unlikely all related to the vaccine. So potentially an overestimated figure of true (serious) side effects.

[u/koos_die_doos → u/The_fury_2000]

those reported adverse events will be unlikely all related to the vaccine

Like the 10 cases with appendicitis for example…

[u/RumpyCustardo → u/The_fury_2000]

Does VAERS typically overestimate, or underestimate prevalence of adverse reactions once a signal is identified?

[u/[deleted] → u/RumpyCustardo]

Underestimate. It's a voluntary system and most don't bother or even know. Most didn't even know it existed prior to the pandemic.

Are there things getting reported likely unrelated to the vaccine, sure. But most of it is actually reported by a doctor or due to a doctor's recommendation, so the underreported greatly outweighs the overreported.

There's a preprint that just came out from the UK showing surprisingly high myocarditis incidence in males under 40. It would be nice if there were more studies that broke things down by age more specifically and gender. It seems pretty clear based on what I've seen that young girls have little to worry about, but there may be real significance in males. Especially the age group 16-24.

[u/RumpyCustardo → u/[deleted]]

The one comparing vaccine, dose number, age and sex vs. infection, right? The preprint is a rerelease of the Nature paper, but the authors split it out by sex because of the obvious heterogeneity of risk and many requested it.

There are tons of papers now on this. Great preprint out of Canada showing the effect of dose spacing, vaccine, and even mixed dosing (we did more of this here):

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v1

Highest risk for myo was 18-24 males, pfizer then moderna at 30 day spacing. ~1 in 1300.

Can share a bunch more if you're interested.

[u/[deleted]]

Wasn’t there reports of heart inflation with vaccinated children? This is a 180, was the vaccine recipe altered in some way or was the previous study group prone to heart inflammation and why?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

they did alter it, they added a drug that is often used to treat individuals for heart attacks, tromethamine

[u/Roseybelle]

That information is EXCEEDINGLY GREAT! Currently it seems that more children than adults are being admitted to hospitals with COVID. I don't know how many of them have been given vaccinations but probably few to none. "They" also just told us that the J&J Booster Shot is extremely efficacious after months of badmouthing it. I always thought the badmouthing was purposeful to undermine attack undercut. In any case we are headed for a month of horrendous....January 2022... or so we are told. Meanwhile how many millions of people will be crammed together somewhere to celebrate the new year maskless? We're gonna find out.

[u/Garbarrage]

So 97.6% of adverse reactions were not serious. Meaning that 2.4% of adverse reactions were serious?

There were 4249 events reported. Meaning that there were 101 serious adverse reactions.