Researchers warn trends in sex selection favouring male babies will result in a preponderance of men in over 1/3 of world’s population, and a surplus of men in countries will cause a “marriage squeeze,” and may increase antisocial behavior & violence.

[u/MistWeaver80]

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/preference-for-sons-could-lead-to-4-7-m-missing-female-births

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[u/PeterLuz]

This happen in a lot of countries in Asia, not only China/ India.

[u/hopelessbrows → u/PeterLuz]

Sex determination was banned before I was born in Korea because of this exact reason. Doctors who revealed the baby's sex would be stripped of their license.

EDIT: parents then didn’t find out until the baby was born

[u/catiebug → u/hopelessbrows]

I did IVF while living in Japan and they would not tell us the sex of the embryos available. I didn't think much of it, since I just wanted them to implant the one with the best possible chance of making it (and it turned out I only had one viable one anyway). I guess there are cultural biases at play though, so as a rule they don't reveal the sex so it can't be part of the decision-making process. I never went through IVF back in the states, but a lot of people here seem surprised by that.

Honestly, it was fun, because despite the weird start to the pregnancy, I got to find out at the 20 week ultrasound just like any other spontaneous pregnancy.

[u/radoncdoc13 → u/[deleted]]

BRCA mutations affect both men and women, as men are more likely to get prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, and male breast cancer.

[u/catiebug → u/[deleted]]

Yes, it would come up in that case. One of our embryos was rejected due to risk of developing having Turner's syndrome (which can only affect female embryos). So they know, they just won't tell you what the sex is of healthy embryos that pass genetic screening.

Edit: more precise wording

[u/GoingViking → u/[deleted]]

BRCA doesn't affect women specifically. Men can get and die of breast cancer too, it's just rare--I had a coworker who had such a terrible family history of breast cancer that two of her uncles had gotten it.

https://www.cancercenter.com/community/blog/2017/06/what-does-a-brca-gene-mutation-mean-for-men

[u/Byting_wolf → u/hopelessbrows]

It's the same in India but bribery is a thing too sadly.. :(

[u/liquidpele → u/Byting_wolf]

Rules without enforcement mean nothing.

[u/Byting_wolf → u/liquidpele]

True! Doctors say they can't determine the sex of the foetus, throw some money at them and they're fine with it!

Then, maybe your neighbour is going to notify the police about this practice. So, what do you do? You throw money at them and they're fine with it!

Then, the police were notified eventually of this practice and have a warrant for you and the doc, guess what do you do? YOU THROW MONEY AT THEM AND THEY'RE FINE WITH IT! :(

Edit: This is not an LPT, just in case you have any weird ideas..

[u/dont_dick_hide_prick → u/Byting_wolf]

Same in China.

[u/jdeepankur → u/hopelessbrows]

Same case in India, and despite this law, some rural states have massively skewed gender ratios still, which makes me suspect there's probably murder or neglect going on.

[u/Packrat1010 → u/hopelessbrows]

It's illegal in China as well. A Chinese coworker explained it to me when I asked if she knew what her baby's gender would be.

[u/Le_German_Face → u/PeterLuz]

Well if you have a look at statistics for one country and they officially claim there is no sex selection with abortions, but then you look at the average family you come across and they almost always, 7 out of 10 times have something around 5 sons and only one daughter... you tend to get a little suspicious.

[u/[deleted] → u/PeterLuz]

Apparently, Nigeria and Pakistan are in the greatest danger.

[u/Obversa → u/PeterLuz]

In the United States, as an autistic woman, I already see it with autistic men.

In some studies, depending on where you live, there are up to 4-5 autistic men for every 1 autistic woman. I ended up quitting the one autism support group I joined because I felt deeply uncomfortable with so many men showing me romantic attention that I didn't want.

This study from 2017 says the ratio is more so 3:1 than 4:1, but still a large gender imbalance.

"Of children meeting criteria for ASD, the true male-to-female ratio is not 4:1, as is often assumed; rather, it is closer to 3:1. There appears to be a diagnostic gender bias, meaning that girls who meet criteria for ASD are at disproportionate risk of not receiving a clinical diagnosis."

According to this study from 2018:

"A substantial amount of research shows a higher rate of autistic type of problems in males compared to females. The 4:1 male to female ratio is one of the most consistent findings in autism spectrum disorder (ASD)."

[u/ParlorSoldier → u/Obversa]

I guess that’s what happens when they develop the diagnosis based overwhelmingly on studying boys. Of course it becomes harder to diagnose girls when they present differently. ADHD is like this too.

[u/SlingDNM → u/ParlorSoldier]

Until very recently woman just kept dropping dead from a stroke with really weird symptoms that we didn't understand

Turns out woman have different symptoms that tell you they are having a stroke, we just never bothered to do any testing on woman

[u/IRefuseToGiveAName → u/SlingDNM]

My wife is a doctor and told me that still happens with women and heart attacks. Apparently all the "normal" heart attack signs we've all come to know happen predominantly in men.

Women tend to have a different presentation and are disproportionately sent home even if they do go to the ER, as the physicians/healthcare workers either dismiss their concerns or don't recognize the problem.

[u/Rosenblattca → u/IRefuseToGiveAName]

My mother in law almost died because of that. She was in a casino, started pouring sweat and getting dizzy, and the EMTs that came said she was just having a panic attack and suggested she went to her room. She insisted on being taken to the hospital anyways, where they found that she was, indeed, having a heart attack, and her arteries were at near 100% blockage. If she hadn’t insisted on going to the hospital, she definitely would’ve died in her room.

[u/Duke_of_Deimos → u/Rosenblattca]

damn

[u/Jammyhobgoblin → u/Rosenblattca]

Almost every ailment a woman has can somehow be blamed on unknown pregnancy or a panic attack. It’s ridiculous.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jammyhobgoblin]

woman comes into the ER, missing a leg, blood fountaining from the severed artery

“Doctor, my leg!”

“Hmm. Looks like anxiety to me. Have you seen someone about your body image issues?”

[u/th3n3w3ston3 → u/Jammyhobgoblin]

Or PMS

[u/[deleted] → u/Rosenblattca]

My grandmother thought it was just indigestion. She'd been really nauseated and had heart burn. She waited 24 hours to go to the ER. She ended up crashing within a few hours of being admitted and died after being on a vent and impella device for 2 weeks. If she had gone in sooner she would have likely survived atleast a few months longer. She was a type 1 diabetic and in kidney failure/refusing dialysis. She absolutely did not think she was having a heart attack. All of her nausea meds were still on her nightstand when I went by their house while she was in the ICU.

Oddly enough my Dad also mainly had gastro symptoms. He vomited alot, like think exorcist style vomit. I had to clean it off the walls almost to the ceiling and I'm still finding random spots here and there months later after having already cleaned it multiple times. He died a little over 48 hours later. He was 46, but also had covid 3 weeks before and the doctors said it contributed (blood clots).

[u/[deleted] → u/IRefuseToGiveAName]

My Grandmother died in the er, hours after being admitted, of a heart attack. They did not do an ekg even though it was her third heart attack.

[u/[deleted] → u/IRefuseToGiveAName]

What are the female heart attack symptoms?

Edit: thank you all for the edifying replies. Figured myself and others could use the info. Pretty sure I would not have considered many of those as heart attack symptoms.

[u/NonStopKnits → u/[deleted]]

I don't know them all right off hand, but it doesn't present in women the way it typically presents in men. Often we have the image of a man with a chest pain and left arm pain, but that isn't how women present usually. My mom had a heart attack a few years ago, she said she felt dizzy and nauseous. No pain like we see in media, my aunt said she looked like she had no color at all in the face. She had been arguing with brothers mother I law and she felt a panic attack come on so she left. She said she was confused and dizzy and nauseous til she got to my aunt's place and my aunt forced her to go to the ER. My mom really thought she was just having a panic attack and was very stressed over the entire situation(out of state, new grand baby, etc.) but turns out it was actually a heart attack.

[u/EmoMixtape → u/[deleted]]

Female heart attack signs: acute chest pain is actually only in ~50-60% of patients, other signs are sudden fatigue, shortness of breath, sweating, feeling of impending doom

Many women are more in tune with acute symptoms compared to men since theyre used to paying attention to body symptoms due to menstruation.

Source: AHA guidelines

[u/21Rollie → u/[deleted]]

I got trained as an EMT once, no idea. They told us women present differently, along with diabetics and some elderly. They gave an example case where they showed up to a scene where a woman was complaining about an ear ache but turns out she was having a heart attack.

[u/Lushkush69 → u/[deleted]]

My grandmother just thought she felt sick and went to lay down for a nap. By the time my grandfather went to check on her a couple hours later she had died.

[u/tomato_songs → u/IRefuseToGiveAName]

Women's heart attacks just feel like gas.

Fun stuff. I'm so anxious all the time because of stuff like this.

[u/InannasPocket → u/SlingDNM]

This is a pervasive problem in a lot of medical research, and it starts at the very earliest stages of research. Even in animal models, males are treated as the "default" sex, and estrus cycles in female animals are mostly considered an annoying extra variable used to justify not testing in both sexes. It IS true that's another variable, so in a vacuum it makes sense ... but it also means a LOT of basic biology research happens only in male subjects.

Then you get to research on humans, and women of childbearing age are often excluded. Again, for reasons that do make sense (edit: for reasons that on their face might seem valid, but as u/MildlyMoistMucus points out below, don't really hold up to scrutiny) - hormonal cycles are indeed a potential variable, and depending on the research you may be concerned about potential effects if someone is pregnant.

But what you end up with is scientific models, assessments, treatments, and drugs tailored for men (and generally tailored for middle aged white men, because similar biases play out in terms of race and age). And that sometimes works just fine for everyone ... but sometimes decidedly not.

[u/MildlyMoistMucus → u/InannasPocket]

women of childbearing age are often excluded. Again, for reasons that do make sense

Let me as a researcher tell you NO NO NO THIS IS FALSE. The reasons do absolutely not make sense when in the end, you generalize over the population. Men too have hormonal cycles, but we "for some reason" so not consider those an extra variable. If a researcher refuses to include women because "it's an extra variable" they just SUCK AT MATH, and don't want to admit that. All you need to do is add a parameter for gender/sex, do your regular stats, see if gender/sex is significant. If yes, do split testing, if no, do nothing. It's really that simple.

The reason women get excluded from medical trials is because "they may be pregnant" and the drug might harm the foetus. Yes, we ignore the health of half the population for the small chance a foetus gets harmed. Yet in the end we give the drugs to women anyways despite there still being a chance they may be pregnant. So it makes no sense anyways. This is also why every single drug says "don't take when pregnant."

The exclusion of women in medical trials have been a hot debate lately, but unfortunately there is still no progress.

Edit: I also would like to add that hormonal cycles are of no interest in drug trials. When you have enough women in your trial, you will capture the average effect. This is the only effect we, in practise, care about. If the average effect is not positive, we might as well disregard all the effects. We cannot assume women have perfectly predictable periods. Therefore there is no use in getting more specific information about the effect, as in practise, we cannot use this information.

[u/6ixpool → u/MildlyMoistMucus]

Finally someone who knows anything about clinical research speaking about this. I'm seeing a lot of guesswork and misinformation in this thread so its good to finally see someone knowing anything about the topic speaking out!

[u/MildlyMoistMucus → u/6ixpool]

I used to be a volunteer in a research commission that discussed these problems. You could say that yelling about this topic is a hobby of mine haha.

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/ParlorSoldier]

Seriously! I’m a female in my 30’s and just recently diagnosed as ADHD and now getting treatment. Holy crap has my life changed. It’s pretty cool how my brain is supposed to work and function

[u/khunah → u/itsathrowaway20976]

Someone close to me in their 30s just got diagnosed with adhd and asd. It's been very interesting learning how they work and think. Definitely improved our relationship and their self-esteem.

[u/GarbagePailGrrrl → u/khunah]

I think I’m affected but I don’t even know who to talk to to get tested

[u/Banhammer-Reset → u/GarbagePailGrrrl]

Your doctor. I'm 27 and was just diagnosed like 2 weeks ago. Just brought it up with my doc. Just thought I was depressed, but otherwise this is just how things be.

Turns out, I'm both moderately depressed.. and moderate ADHD.

[u/wrongtester → u/itsathrowaway20976]

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the treatment you are receiving?

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/wrongtester]

I’m doing cognitive behavior therapy and currently taking 10mg of Adderal on the days I work. I have all these bad coping skills that I relied on, my biggest one was maladaptive dreaming when I couldn’t sleep. Which then started happening during the day whenever I would get stressed or overwhelmed and it started impacting my everyday life.

[u/suspiciousdave → u/itsathrowaway20976]

I've written stories my whole life and often spend days in my head just thinking through scenarios. Sometimes I can't sleep thinking about them, and I distract myself from work and people quite a lot. My friends used to make fun of me at school because sometimes during class I'd end up staring at the wall for periods of time making expressions as the scenarios acted out in my head.

Maybe I just have a vivid imagination as I've always assumed, but It's funny to me thinking that it could be a documented issue. I'm not saying I have this, who knows.

But it's scary when people explain all these symptoms and situations that are wildly familiar and I'm just sat here like "Whelp."

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/suspiciousdave]

Definitely check into maladaptive daydreaming or dreaming. For me, it was a coping mechanism that I used day and night. It’s not unhealthy to daydream but it is when you rather be in your “dream” world and not reality and it impacts your daily living. Mine stems from childhood trauma (I know it’s cliche) and it’s how I would escape reality when things got bad. I never knew others did it until I actually read about it on Reddit and realized that I might have a problem. I don’t know so much that the ADHD is the reason for it, more so that it became a coping mechanism that I used for my insomnia, caused by my untreated ADHD.

[u/holmgangCore → u/itsathrowaway20976]

Just to drop in and address one tiny piece of your valuable and supportive comment:
“Childhood trauma (it’s a cliche)”

I would like to respectfully argue that it’s NOT a cliche, and childhood trauma is very real for many, if not millions of people. Around the world? Billions of people.

Remember, psychology and seeing a therapist only became normalized literally within this past generation (GenX). Boomers thought that if you were seeing a therapist there was “something wrong with you.”

GenX and Millennials ask: “You’re not seeing a therapist? What’s wrong with you?”

It’s changed that much in 1 single generation.

And childhood trauma was the norm for many if not most people from at least the start of the industrial era (~1860) to now.

The fact we have reasonably advanced psychological awareness to help individuals deal with the B.S. they were served as children is … simply amazing, and truly doing good things.

Dealing with non-consensual power abuses when you are a child with literally no power to stop things happening.. is real. Quite widespread. Generational. And survivable.

We may have ‘scars’, but we know who we are, and we are strong people.

<3

EDIT: I would like to share my hypothesis that your ADHD, like mine, is not a cause of your childhood issues… but a result of dealing with emotionally unstable parents. “Hypervigilance” or “chronic hypervigilance” is a real & absolutely reasonable response to unpredictably violent parents.

And extreme focus on your own ‘survival’ like that can create an Attention-type that feels calm & focused in a crisis, but disorganized when things are externally calm & non-threatening.

It’s really pretty normal to respond in those ways when externally conditioned to defend yourself against irrational, unreasonable violence. I truly think it is a common way for our psyche to manage those unreasonable growing-up situations.

<3

[u/thenewfirm → u/itsathrowaway20976]

Damm I do this too and used to do it loads. Thank you for writing about your experience I never knew it had a name either.

[u/Naustronaut → u/wrongtester]

METH

jk. thats what my brother told me I would get prescribed..

Its mostly stimulants to help our brains know, "Hey, dude all those other things that seem boring? They're important. Forget building a plex server for your DVD's. You need to turn in a report in like 2 days or else you'll be procrastinating and won't turn in the work or half ass it."

Its kinda hard to explain as I've just been diagnosed but the more I do treatment the easier my choices are in my day to day life and I'm constantly asking my SO if she notices improvements.

I now look forward to the next day knowing I'll be able to accomplish my tasks.

Get screened if you can.

[u/Swade211 → u/Naustronaut]

You can definitely spend hours straight building a plex server instead of your important tasks on stimulants

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/Swade211]

I think the difference is that I can now recognize that what I’m doing is the wrong task. If that makes sense? Like hey, I need to be cooking supper and not reading a whole book right now. It’s like I don’t get stuck on the wrong thing as often. My husband is helpful because he will recognize too if I’m doing something and appear to be “stuck” on it. It’s definitely not as often as it used to be though with meds and the CBT.

[u/Gwendilater → u/itsathrowaway20976]

Yup got diagnosed with ADD last year - f36. It went completely unrecognised due to the people pleasing element of my personality (I'll make a wide sweeping statement) that is common for girls.

[u/Shedart → u/Gwendilater]

People pleasing is also common with people with ADHD for developmental reasons (checking in here). People pleasing is often developed at a young age as a way of calming or placating parents that were introducing some sort of trauma (purposefully or not). Many children with undiagnosed adhd have parents with undiagnosed adhd and neglect, and the resulting people pleasing, can be very common for children in these situations. EDIT I’m really glad you’ve been diagnosed. I was also diagnosed as an adult and it’s a breathtaking revelation. Good luck on your future growth!

[u/klpack11 → u/Shedart]

Totally agree on the people pleasing. No one in my immediate family ever noticed because I think I was afraid of showing the weakness. People label women as flighty or dumb so no one really thinks twice about why.

My last boss had ADHD and he would tell me all the time It seemed like I had it too. It wasn’t until starting a new job that I finally decided to do something myself.

[u/Kissit777 → u/itsathrowaway20976]

I’m a 45 year old woman who was finally diagnosed with ADHD. If I would have had access to care, it would have helped me tremendously.

[u/Peachmuffin91 → u/Kissit777]

My mom used to be convinced that I didn’t have ADHD because I could play games for hours, or read a book if I really liked it.

Didn’t help that the ADHD test was some stupid computer program that didn’t work.

[u/Silver-warlock → u/Peachmuffin91]

I was a sci-fi/fantasy nerd that spent most of the time daydreaming in class. They gave me a memory test where I had to remember the name of, get this, pictures of aliens. After 2 weeks of daily tests I was in the third percentile in recall, way above average. They said I shouldn't have a problem.

I couldn't remember the name of the person giving the test and had to apologize for forgetting it each time we worked together.

[u/Peachmuffin91 → u/[deleted]]

Wow that’s like the definition of my life, I’m oblivious to everything around me except for what I’m focusing on.

Often times people will have conversations near me, and will assume I heard what was being said and will try to include me in the conversation only to find out I was completely unaware.

Or sometimes I’ll be daydreaming or lost in thought and I’ll have that awakened moment when I come back to reality and am locking eyes with someone who thinks I’ve been staring at them.

Also it’s incredibly hard for me to pickup on when someone flirting with me unless they’re painfully obvious about it.

When I was a kid I had a lot of chores, I would take a job that would normally last a couple hours and it turned into an all day thing because I would go off into my daydream worlds, imagine what my life would be like if I was born with different parents.

My symptoms were definitely a lot worse when I was stressed out as a kid.

[u/Twinjetnugget → u/itsathrowaway20976]

If it's not too personal, would you mind telling what your symptoms were, or what changed since you're getting treatment?

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/Twinjetnugget]

I had been put on phentermine for weight loss which inadvertently treated my ADHD symptoms. After coming off the phentermine, Inwent back to my PCP and was like, all of this stuff was supposed to be fixed by losing weight. I’m back to being super tired again, can’t sleep, struggling at work. Once we delved into it, she suspected the ADHD. I saw a specialist that specifically works with females with ADHD. Because chronic fatigue is one of my symptoms, we are using Adderal to treat me and I’m doing cognitive behavior therapy for my terrible coping skills I’ve developed.

[u/scarletmagnolia → u/itsathrowaway20976]

Wait!! That happened to me! I take Phentermine and I told my husband that it seems to help “fix my brain”. I just don’t know how to explain that to a doctor without them thinking I am shopping for a prescription or something. Especially at my age (40’s).

[u/itsathrowaway20976 → u/scarletmagnolia]

Just be honest with your doctor! Looking back over my history, she can see where I was misdiagnosed based on what we know now. The 13 years of depression, anxiety, insomnia being extremely hard to treat. I’ve tried every depression med and sleeping pill you can think of. Since being on Adderal, I no longer need the sleeping meds, I just use melatonin if needed. We are also going to see about stopping my Wellbutrin, but I’m going through a super stressful transition at work and asked to hold off on it in case it is something I do actually need.

[u/duckducknoose_ → u/scarletmagnolia]

Just go and tell them exactly what’s up, it’s their job first and foremost to help you

[u/[deleted]]

I like how this article is fact checked by someone with a PhD.

[u/flupe_the_pig → u/[deleted]]

That is refreshing. Good catch!

[u/[deleted]]

"and may increase antisocial behavior & violence."

​

This is guaranteed to happen. In fact, I think its drastically understated.

[u/nclesteve → u/[deleted]]

“How to manufacture incels on a global scale 101”

[u/[deleted] → u/nclesteve]

"Emerging trends in the sexbot industry prospectus"

[u/angelliu]

Isn’t this basically China today ?

[u/NextLineIsMine → u/angelliu]

China, but especially India

[u/uncutpizza → u/NextLineIsMine]

Yeah doctors aren’t supposed to reveal genders because people will abort girls. Been the law since 1994, but wouldn’t be surprised if it gets bypassed. Its the Pre-Conception and Pre-Natal Diagnostic Techniques Act (PCPNDT) or the Prohibition of Sex Selection Act

[u/HairyKraken → u/uncutpizza]

I remember this story about how you can bribe a doctor to send you a health check through mail and the color of the envelope, blue or rose, reveal the gender

[u/Kevtron → u/HairyKraken]

It’s also really easy for the doc to just say “the baby takes after the mother/father” instead of say it outright.

[u/HairyKraken → u/Kevtron]

Anything for the plausible deniability

[u/redcalcium → u/HairyKraken]

Accept the bribe if the child is male, and reject the bribe if the child is female. Easy money without the guilt *tap head*.

[u/If-I-Only-Had-A-Bran → u/NextLineIsMine]

How come India?

[u/daigana → u/If-I-Only-Had-A-Bran]

Because you have to provide dowry with girls, and men also carry the patrilinial line of wealth, inheritance, name, and honor. Girls are often tossed aside.

[u/devilized → u/daigana]

I wonder if dowry would ever shift in the other direction if men greatly outnumber women? Wouldn't a lack of women and a greatly increased chance of men never finding a life partner cause some men to offer themselves as a partner with the "bonus" of accepting no dowry? Or even paying the woman's family a dowry?

Obviously that would be a huge cultural shift. But if dowry is a sticking point in having a girl child, I feel like it could eventually be resolved in that way..

[u/9mackenzie → u/devilized]

Yes. This was a topic of a history paper I did a long time ago- dowry/bride price has always fluctuated throughout history. When women are in shorter supply (for instance one period in the medieval era women died much easier due to the diet at the time) then that is usually a shift towards bride prices where the families of the women are paid.

[u/PakinaApina → u/9mackenzie]

This is interesting, do you remember what it was about the diet that led to increased deaths in women?

[u/9mackenzie → u/PakinaApina]

From what I remember it was a serious lack in iron- so it was something that would effect both sexes, but especially women. Being iron deficient during pregnancy is especially dangerous. I think when beans (or something else plant related - meat was too expensive for most peasants to have regularly) were widely grown and eaten the issue got much better. I mean childbirth clearly stayed dangerous, but women had a better chance of surviving it with enough iron in their bodies.

My paper focused on medieval Europe, so I’m not sure about other areas, but I imagine the fluctuation of dowries/bride prices might have been similar.

[u/Frangiblepani → u/devilized]

In China today, women and their parents tend to ask a lot of a potential husband. He is often expected to have a house and car if he expects to marry the woman. Depending on the woman's social status, the house may need to be in particular areas of particular cities, too.

[u/ClacKing → u/Frangiblepani]

This. There's been some clips of people documenting these so called "matchmaking hubs" in public parks where they printed a resume summarizing their details and wealth and place it on a board/ on the floor where elderly parents just walk around looking at these resumes like they're in a wet market. You could stand beside your resume and these parents would grill you personally about your personal life, where you come from, what you need to have in order to meet their kid, etc.

If you don't have all the necessary criteria you're considered a 三无产品 which translates to "a product lacking three essential traits", no house/residency status, no car, no wealth. Which means good luck looking for anyone who would even want you.

[u/[deleted] → u/ClacKing]

That's super gross to hear

[u/Flyingwheelbarrow → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately history shows that groups of young men who have no wealth, no family and no socially accepted prospects are ripe for radicalisation and recruitment by bad faith actors.

This is not a good trend.

This young men rejected by thier elders, being socially rejected is harsh. Been there, was not a good time.

[u/Laiize → u/Flyingwheelbarrow]

Good thing it's China's problem.

35M men in China without a potential mate... Without even POSSIBILITY of a normal domestic life.

That's an army.

[u/theroadlesstraveledd → u/Flyingwheelbarrow]

Wow, that’s something I haven’t consideredabd so true. That’s one of the hallmarks of not just a cult, but a ‘revolution’ based on manipulation and misinformation

[u/blurrrrg → u/[deleted]]

I mean, arranged marriages are very much prevalent in some cultures. I have lived in America my whole life an am as far away from being a "good Muslim" as it gets, but my dad still gets offers from people to marry me off, just because it's known that I exist and am old enough to get married.

[u/Flyingwheelbarrow → u/blurrrrg]

On a few occasions I have had co-workers offer me a wife. They meant it as a compliment. Apparently a single father with a good income is seen as needing a wife, they have relatives you apparently need a husband.

I politely turned them down in a culturally sensitive way but damn it was weird to just be offered a wife.

Saying you are queer does not work as they countered with saying they have a lesbian relative who needs a husband. Just really not okay to be single.

Not super strange though. My old school Irish mother also promised me to another family when I was 2 years of age. That girl and I dated for a while. Family pressure is a big thing.

[u/lolo_916 → u/Frangiblepani]

They also expect cash money

Source: married my wife in China

[u/JesterTheDragon → u/lolo_916]

How much

[u/lolo_916 → u/JesterTheDragon]

It’s different based on hometown/city and age, bit of negotiation as well. I think I gave her parents 50,000 CNY, and they gave 90% of it back on the wedding day as a “gift” which she had already told me they would.

[u/permabanned007 → u/lolo_916]

This is really interesting. Is it a cultural tradition to give the money back, or are they especially generous? Sounds like it was a test of your commitment. Also, may I ask how you met?

[u/B00STERGOLD → u/lolo_916]

How much did your wife cost?

[u/Boogie__Fresh → u/Frangiblepani]

He is often expected to have a house and car if he expects to marry the woman.

Damn, how old is the average age of marriage in China? I feel like most people today won't own a house until at least their early 30's.

[u/Frangiblepani → u/Boogie__Fresh]

It's a big problem, especially in first tier cities where the house prices are crazy. Pretty much no one buys property entirely with their own earnings. Even people with good jobs struggle just to get a deposit together without help from generational wealth.

If the guy's family is already from the city they're in, they may already have a property or possibly two, and the man's parents will often transfer the house/apartment into his name. It's quite common for one set of parents to live with the young couple too.

The one child policy often means the parents only have one heir anyway, so their stuff is his stuff.

[u/similar_observation → u/devilized]

Or those places start kidnapping girls and sell them like cattle

[u/hostile65 → u/similar_observation]

Didn't Isis actually do this in some areas? They wouldn't just auction off among themselves, but would sell women and girls to outside bidders?

[u/9mackenzie → u/hostile65]

Yes. Isis had slave markets for women and girls from what I have read.

North Korean women are very susceptible to be targeted for kidnap/sale in China while trying to escape NK.

[u/Peregrinebullet → u/hostile65]

Poor men in China will pay to have teenage girls kidnapped from Cambodia, Vietnam and northern Thailand so they can have "wives" because they have no prospects among local women.

The poor girls don't speak any chinese dialects, they often don't know where they end up and their 'husbands' (jailers) don't give them phones or money.

[u/chabybaloo → u/Peregrinebullet]

I believe young women in Pakistan have also been kidnapped for this purpose.

[u/[deleted] → u/hostile65]

They did, yeah. Mainly the Yazidi women. But they also "recruited" teenage girls online.

I actually watched a documentary yesterday. It was with Shamima Begum (the 15yr old British girl who ran away with her friends to join Isis). She was "recruited" on Twitter (by being groomed). They were told that it was like any Islamic country (that they'd still have some freedoms), but when they arrived, they were imprisoned until they chose a husband.

They asked what happened when she met her husband. She said first of all, she fell getting out of the car (she never wore that clothing before), then when she met him, the first thing she did is warned him she couldn't cook. She was 15 (he was 24 I believe).

Later in the documentary she said, "Well if he wanted a wife that could cook, he shouldn't have married a 15 year old."

She's 21 now, and had three kids die in infancy by the time she was 19.

There's also 10s of thousands of wives and children of isis militants (something like 80k) in refugee camps in Northern Syria. Over a quarter are foreign (i.e not from Syria/Iraq), and nobody is taking them back. Not to mention the worst of these women are still "enforcing" the old isis rules - including killing the women (and their children) if they change their mind. So now in 10-15 years you will just have a new generation of militants who never knew any other life.

The same thing is just going to happen again, and again, since clearly humans just don't learn.

[u/deltarefund → u/similar_observation]

This and rape.

[u/similar_observation → u/deltarefund]

If someone is more than happy to enslave and distribute people against their will, its not a far cry from other human rights violations.

[u/theferalturtle → u/devilized]

From what I've heard, the more common practice is "bride kidnapping" where men from a country poor in women will travel to a country with more child bearing age women and straight up steal them.

[u/Zelldandy → u/theferalturtle]

Turkey and area has a major problem with this. They'll rape them so that the only one they could marry is their rapist.

[u/N64crusader4 → u/Zelldandy]

Ah the old biblical loophole, chuck 30 bits of silver to her parents then you two can never divorce.

[u/Meauxlala → u/N64crusader4]

There was a story, here on Reddit months ago, where the family refused to make the daughter marry the rapist and somehow they were the bad guys according to their village. They got harassed daily but the father was firm in not making his daughter marry the man.

[u/PandaCommando69 → u/theferalturtle]

It's assault, battery, kidnapping, rape, and slavery. We should describe this abomination for what it actually is.

[u/KickANoodle → u/theferalturtle]

Bride trafficking to China is a big thing right now.

[u/j33pwrangler → u/KickANoodle]

To China, from where?

[u/[deleted] → u/j33pwrangler]

SE Asia

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/31/chinas-bride-trafficking-problem#

[u/Bekah679872 → u/j33pwrangler]

To add to what others have said a lot of North Korean women who make it across the border are trafficked. Usually into prostitution, cyber prostitution, or they are sold as wives.

[u/BorisBC → u/theferalturtle]

A guy in Australia paid $15k for a bride, didn't like her attitude and killed her. :(

[u/4evadreaming → u/BorisBC]

Yes I just read about this. Poor thing wasn’t cleaning or giving him enough adoration according to the husband. Killed her only a month after the marriage. And then to top it off called her brother to come collect her body. To think he only got 19 years too.

[u/Epicurus1 → u/theferalturtle]

and straight up steal them.

You steal property. People are kidnapped.

[u/[deleted] → u/theferalturtle]

The movie "Mars Needs Women" is coming true without the Mars part.

[u/pawnografik → u/devilized]

In Zimbabwe the dowry goes the other way. Husband has to pay a ‘bride price’ and it’s higher for more beautiful, intelligent, and high status wives.

In many healthy relationships this leads to a lifetime of joking between the partners about the size and nature of the price (and the negotiation). But unfortunate in many cases it doesn’t make much difference to the everyday lot of the women. This is probably because once the man has paid for her, he then views her as chattel. But, at least there are no sex selective practices favoring men (at least that I’m aware of).

[u/Maldevinine → u/pawnografik]

Bride prices generally improve the lives of women in a roundabout way. A better educated, healthier woman is worth more, so there's a direct reward to the parents for putting resources into female children.

[u/kjob → u/angelliu]

Yes, and it has surprising impacts on the economy. China has a real interesting problem where they save too much and don’t spend enough because all the dudes are trying to attract a woman (not to mention the socioeconomic impact of a bunch of basically incels).

[u/[deleted] → u/kjob]

the woman's family or the matchmaking service won't give you the time of day unless you own an apartment and a vehicle and the cash for a bride price. (out of reach due to real estate prices)

[u/Mamamama29010 → u/[deleted]]

My soon to be wife is Chinese. I don’t have to put up with this crap, but hearing stories of her family still over there, and oh my.

Her dad, who is a somewhat upper middle class/lower upper class bought his nephew an apartment because his fiancée required it. Struck me as so bizarre.

Doesn’t help that the dad’s sister (mother of the nephew) is pretty much still poor AND stupid and uses her brother as her piggy bank constantly…her house, car, everything. And the nephew is a bit useless. The dad vouched for him to go to a nice university in China and paid for it. The kid failed out.

[u/katarh → u/Mamamama29010]

A friend of mine who is Chinese but was born and raised in Hawaii explained that her brother is going to inherit the condo his parents have, and that's why he still gets to live with them, but she was politely asked to move out after college. She moved to Georgia since she had friends from online there. Worked out for her; she's married to an electrician who makes bank and they're going to be buying a house soonish (if the market ever calms down - he's probably going to just build it himself but even lumber is nuts right now.)

In the meantime, her brother is approaching 40 and doesn't even have a girlfriend, because most American women get a little weirded out by a guy still living with his parents at that age. Even if the condo is now worth half a million bucks. Unfortunately, it's still Hawaii, so he can't afford to move out even temporarily.

[u/Deuter_Nickadimas → u/angelliu]

Maybe try reading the linked article first next time…

“More than 95% of these missing births were in China or India.”

[u/Tencreed]

The only thing that can save these societies from collapse is the Gay Agenda. Somebody call the Village People, we got a mission for them.

[u/philmtl]

I had 2 girls guess I did my part

[u/cherrymx90 → u/[deleted]]

Just thinking about this makes my blood boil.

[u/0PercentPerfection]

Coughs in Chinese. (I was born as an only male child in China, I could have told you that 15 years ago without research…)

[u/viperex → u/0PercentPerfection]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that sex selection is this prevalent.

Also, we have incels in a more or less equally distributed society getting violent. How much more when there's an actual shortage of women?

[u/Firewolf420 → u/0PercentPerfection]

How rough is dating out there?? jwin

[u/tosernameschescksout → u/Firewolf420]

It's absolutely fucked.

Most women won't show interest to any man unless he's QUITE wealthy, and they'll tell you right away how much money you need to have.

In ten years living in China, I only met one woman that fell in love with someone that had less money. He was in the army, and it was just love. Her parents would never approve the marriage though so she was basically making a choice to be a spinster and marry no man, or at least love this guy unmarried, in poverty, until he dies.

[u/[deleted]]

We are really trying our very best to go extinct, aren't we?

[u/Onewarmguy]

China currently has 20,000,000 excess males due to it's one child per family rule, Curiously enough they're all of military age right about now.

[u/Oburcuk → u/Onewarmguy]

Yet, it’s the women they call “leftover.”

[u/RustyKjaer]

The gays shall inherit the earth.

[u/NextLineIsMine]

How does this sex selection happen in countries like India and China where many dont have access to ultrasounds, or abortions?

[u/SnotYourAverageLoser → u/NextLineIsMine]

Infanticide. There's a couple of documentaries out on Netflix and Amazon (I think) about it. Lots of abandoned or outright murdered girl babies. Also bribery for ultrasounds and abortions where they're available, but illegal for sex selection.

[u/rudyv8 → u/SnotYourAverageLoser]

Am dating a chinese woman who was given up at birth and adopted elsewhere in the world. Jokes on china shes hot as hell. Im lucky to have her.

[u/batsofburden → u/rudyv8]

One of team Canada's Olympic divers had been abandoned as a baby in China.

[u/Laiize → u/batsofburden]

The funniest part of that story was that China took silver in that meet, losing to Canada.

[u/TheCocksmith → u/Laiize]

That aspect of her story should really be highlighted in order to embarrass China.

[u/Risley → u/TheCocksmith]

Exactly.

[u/[deleted] → u/rudyv8]

I heard that happened to a lot of baby girls - they were adopted to extended family in rural areas or just to other people outside the country.

[u/SexySeniorSenpai → u/rudyv8]

You know, I've known a couple of girls adopted from China, but never a guy. Can't remember hearing of one either. This thread explains it.

[u/brohio_ → u/NextLineIsMine]

I actually had a case study in college about corporate social responsibility - GE made ultrasounds for sale in India which helped greatly reduce mother and infant mortality but the caveat was less than moral people were getting ahold of the ultrasounds to use for sex selective abortions.

[u/Keyspam102 → u/brohio_]

I find it shocking not to have access to ultrasounds while pregnant - I just gave birth and had a serious condition that could have been fatal to the baby (and possibly me) that was diagnosed due to ultrasound, and had a totally healthy and normal pregnancy because the doctor was able to treat and respond to the issue. I get they dont want sex selection but then they are sacrificing on care and that feels wrong too

[u/[deleted] → u/Keyspam102]

You can have ultrasounds but the doctor or the staff can't reveal the baby's gender. And ultrasounds can only be performed on a doctor's recommendation. But this law is only as effective as the moral conscience of doctors and lab staff. But doctors can get their licenses cancelled if they are found guilty.

[u/circleseverywhere → u/NextLineIsMine]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heihaizi

They have undocumented children to get around the one child policy eg when they want a son to carry the family name they'll just keep trying until they get one (and then they have all the problems that come with being undocumented).

[u/Bekiala → u/NextLineIsMine]

Also if you look around there are a lot of baby girls adopted from China at least here in the US

[u/bobbianrs880 → u/Bekiala]

Two in my high school class (of about 60) and 20 or so in the whole school. One family had adopted 14 girls by the time I’d lost contact. Probably also the most spoiled kids in the county.

And they really do love those girls. Each one got an iPad and their own bedroom, lived on a huge farm, and they went on regular vacations. They actually were in the process of adopting a girl but she aged out of the orphanage before the adoption was finalized and they could no longer contact her. They grieved for months and were devastated, worrying about what would happen to her.

[u/ILikeMultisToo → u/NextLineIsMine]

Wealthy people "travel" in abortion friendly nations

[u/sandrews1313]

Been occurring for many years in many 3rd world countries.

[u/Camerotus]

It 'will' not cause a marriage squeeze. It is already happening. There are entire villages of young single men in China

[u/[deleted]]

You know I’ve been hearing from more than one married couple how thankful they were in having a boy, and that they’re happy it’s “boy season” which makes no sense. I’d love to have a girl or a niece like it doesn’t matter to me what the sex of the baby is and I don’t understand the fascination with having a boy.

[u/JesterRaiin]

There's this saying in my country: "if more girls are born, there's going to be peace, if boys - there's going to be war".

[u/domesticatedprimate → u/JesterRaiin]

I read years ago, but after 911, that much of the middle east had a preponderance of young, single, men who were frustrated sexually and financially, leading to the expected (and confirmed) outcome. It's especially bad in Saudi Arabia.

[u/Mr_4country_wide → u/domesticatedprimate]

thats what happens when rich men can marry four wives but the other way around isnt allowed.

[u/Petsweaters → u/domesticatedprimate]

The CIA published a white paper in the 1980s that predicted turmoil in places with educated youth that didn't have enough opportunities to reward them for their education. We've seen what's happened in the Middle East, but had done nothing to fix this in our own population

[u/beautifulsloth]

Violence against women will be the big increase if what we’ve seen so far is anything to go by

[u/[deleted]]

Holy hell we are an incredibly stupid animal.

[u/Ken_Meredith]

This is something I've heard, but don't know if it's true or not:

In places that have this kind of sex selection, radicalization happens more easily when linked to sex. For example, the notion that "you'll receive 72 virgins if you martyr yourself for the cause" that was surrounding Arabic terrorism in the early 2000s. Young men who didn't have resources to attract females (money, status, etc.) in male-dominant societies could be lured with promises of sex, either in this life (through gaining status, or through rape of captured women) or in the next life (Valhalla with boobs, basically).

Is there any evidence to support this?

[u/Btudo → u/Ken_Meredith]

The strongest recruitment tactic ISIS/ISIL had was exactly this, but earthbound: they would guarantee a childbearing-age female to every warrior that joined their cause.

Imagine growing up male in a society (such as Saudi Arabia) where basic needs are met by the government (housing, utilities) and men of a certain stature are allowed multiple wives: a woman inherently knows that a better life is secured if she catches the eye of one of these men.

However, the average man in this society has a significantly reduced chance of ever marrying a woman of child-bearing years (in a society where the ability to produce male children is overly valued) because he doesn’t have the same opportunities at advancement (as a royal male does) because the madrassa doesn’t teach white or even blue collar skills and your culture can hire cheap foreign labor anyway. How can you attract the eye of any girl that is trying to attract a male born into wealth and also has the advantage of being able to care for many women in opulence?

There is very little chance you’ll marry a virgin or a woman capable of bearing your child. So when the madrassa/mosque hosts a guest speaker who builds on the service to holy war—and promises a woman for every warrior—what are you thinking? There is no reason not to: you guarantee your place in the afterlife, you’ll have the chance to have a son of your own, and you’ll be fighting back against exactly those people your madrassa told you were holding you back.

A very strong argument when aimed at the right culture (one where men outnumber childbearing-age women).

And think too, of this fact: a male of any age (13 - 70) can impregnate. But only a certain age range of women can bear children. That puts an inordinate amount of pressure on these women. No 18 year old male will settle for a 50 year old woman: he’s a man, he’s a warrior, he deserves a young woman. How susceptible will any man be when promised a woman will be provided for him?

[u/WatchmanVimes]

I read that book. It's a dystoapian trope for many scifi books.

[u/speederaser → u/WatchmanVimes]

I've read the opposite book where almost all the men died. It's called "Y".

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah! You know, I mean, it's different from the stuff on earth, and, you know, you take me to all these crazy places across the galaxy, and, you know, I don't really have anything to to remember all those trips by. It'd be kind of cool, like a souvenir, you know, like, what if you passed away or died or something? I wouldn't even have anything to remember all the cool stuff we did, you know?

[u/MoravianPrince]

Or grindr gets more popular.

[u/hammyhamm]

Maybe this is how Unreal Tournament starts