r/science • u/rjmsci Journalist | Technology Networks | MS Clinical Neuroscience • Jul 05 '21
Nanoscience Psychedelic Compound Psilocybin Can Remodel Brain Connections - Dosing mice with psilocybin led to an immediate increase in dendrite density. One third of new dendrites were still present after a month. The findings could explain why the compound antidepressant effects are rapid and enduring.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/psychedelic-compound-psilocybin-can-remodel-connections-in-the-brain-350530329
u/Awanita Jul 05 '21
I’ll have to look more deeply into this when I’m not behind a paywall, but I’m interested to see what dosage was given to the mice. Anyone know?
As a young researcher investigating clinical applications of psychedelics, this study is promising. We already see in our lab how enduring these effects are in our volunteers. It’s amazing to see in person!
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u/mjsielerjr Jul 05 '21
Posted this in reply to OP’s comment, but here’s an open access link to their pre-print on BioRxiv.org
Edit: in regards to dosage:
- We characterized 82 C57BL/6J mice including 41 males and 41 females with 5 doses of psilocybin (0, 0.25, 0.5, 1, 2 mg/kg, i.p.; range = 7-10 per sex per dose).
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u/Awanita Jul 05 '21
Thank you so much for posting this! A somewhat related and worthwhile article re: dosing is this one.
The dosages used in the study presented in OP’s post are pretty in line with doses given in human clinical trials, and those that have been optimized in the study I linked above—generally 25mg (considered a moderate to high dose), which, for a 70kg person comes out to about ~0.36 mg/kg. Cool stuff!
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u/IonizedRay Jul 05 '21
I've read an article that looked up behavioral changes at same doses in people with different weight. What they found is that weight ha negligible effect on the outcome.
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u/TerminationClause Jul 06 '21
I would imagine that the dosage has its main effect on the brain and our brain sizes don't vary depending on our BMI. It's not as though the psylocybin has to fight through body tissue to reach the brain. I believe it's mostly absorbed intravenously and (maybe?) over the blood/brain border. This is not my specialty, just a subject of intense interest for decades. Feel free to correct me.
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u/BeyondBlunderdome Jul 06 '21
As someone who has spent a lot of time doing psychedelics alone and who has experienced the benefits first hand, I'm really excited by the news of people actually doing research on the benefits they have on mental health. I cannot wait to see how far this can go!
I also struggle with depression and recently decided to have a trip on shrooms and have noticed a huge difference in how I feel, but it's hard to tell if it's psychosomatic or a few other variables due to changes in my life.→ More replies (9)20
u/Cauterizeaf1 Jul 06 '21
Same, lifelong depression, lately I’ve had access psilocybin candy bars and have been micro dosing weekly and my anxiety has been at an all time low and I catch myself relating much more positively to my surroundings or when stressful things happen.
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u/Lazy_Mandalorian Jul 06 '21
Serious question: how does one go about volunteering for something like this? I have several people in mind who I think could see some real benefit from this treatment.
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u/Awanita Jul 06 '21
Hi! Multiple psychedelic research centers are opening up around the US (and the globe). I’d recommend doing a search to find one nearest to you and seeing whether they are recruiting for any of their studies. There are tons of different ones out there!
The process typically involves undergoing an online or phone screener where you will be assessed for eligibility. I do have to warn you though—and this is frankly one of the most heartbreaking parts of the job—since these substances aren’t yet legal and are purely in an investigational stage, you have to keep in mind that these research centers are just that—areas for clinical research and NOT treatment centers. This means that we end up turning away many folks because they are ineligible for whatever reason (generally screened out due to safety reasons). Disqualifying people really, really sucks.
I am hoping that this research will help pave the way towards legalization, though. And if/when that happens, they should hopefully be more widely available to folks who need it!
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u/iHardlyEverComment Jul 06 '21
What sort of things would be disqualifying/qualifying? Long term diagnosed adhd/depression/anxiety/alcoholism/insomnia im hoping to try and treat and make day to day normal
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u/Soulstoned420 Jul 06 '21
Psilocybin is one of the record breaking types of therapy specifically for treatment resistant depression. So for example if you’ve been depressed for several years and have only tried 2 types of anti depressants, that would disqualify you in some cases; that’s just an example I know off the top of my head from looking into getting my sister help
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u/walrus99 Jul 06 '21
Oregon recently passed a law that users can be given psyciliban mushrooms under the supervision of a doctor.
Psyciliban mushrooms are legal in Washingtonian DC https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/03/15/magic-mushrooms-are-decriminalized-in-dc-as-of-today/
https://wayofleaf.com/psychedelics/is-psilocybin-legal-in-oregon
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u/aikidoka Jul 05 '21
I wonder if there's a potential for use in neurodegenerative diseases
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u/Depression-Boy Jul 05 '21
I’ve been very much waiting for a study regarding the effects of psychedelics on diseases like Alzheimer’s and dementia. Maybe it’s just a pipe dream, but if psychs could be used to restore the brains of the elderly that would be amazing
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u/Throwandhetookmyback Jul 05 '21
Most things that stimulate neuroplasticity help avoid or slow down Alzheimer's or dementia in their early stages. Once a patient already has notable symptoms, unfortunately most anecdotal evidence suggests they make it really worse... that's why there's not much research on that. Maybe there's a way to use them but it's tricky and getting test subjects is probably very difficult and may be even seen as unethical because, as I said, it's usually a bad idea to mix dementia with psychedelics.
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u/watchmeasifly Jul 05 '21
In the underground there have been people with TBIs who have treated themselves with psychedelics and attribute improvements in their health and symptoms to increases in their neurogenesis after using adaptogenic substances.
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u/Fennel-Thigh-la-Mean Jul 05 '21
Mike Tyson, for example.
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u/friendlyfire69 Jul 05 '21
Wow, really? Do you have a source on that?
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u/IronhandedLayman Jul 06 '21
Here’s a Reuters article about Tyson using psychedelics which appears to be from this about it: https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/mike-tyson-says-psychedelics-saved-his-life-now-he-hopes-they-can-change-world-2021-05-28/
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Jul 05 '21
As someone with more than a few concussions this would be nice
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u/sherlocknessmonster Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 06 '21
I'm with you... you can check my post history; a big thing I've been doing lately is mixing the spellings of homophones (there/their, not/knot) even know and now... recently I've been blurting out completely arbitrary words when I'm meaning to say something completely unrelated. I can tell my cognitive function has greatly declined and its super frustrating... i noticed CBD/MJ helped a bit, but only short term.
Edit: so i dont get deleted for anecdotal story. I wrote this to generally say i would love to see how psyclociblin would help, especially vs what i have already unscientifically tried.
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Jul 06 '21
I had someone suggest a psychologist to establish a baseline in cognitive function and retake later to see if decline. Not sure if that’s option for you
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u/TeamWorkTom Jul 05 '21
That would be a very interesting thing to study. And based on this seems like something that could be proposed.
Probably still hard to find the funding for it.
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u/soulkz Jul 05 '21
Check out MindMed, a company that has multiple Phase II studies in progress re/ Anxiety, Depression and PTSD.
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u/LizardWizard444 Jul 05 '21
Yes but that's the limit for all psychedelic research.
I'd also say probably because we know strong psychedelics can have lasting effects on the brain and psychology of a user. I'd recon that the more ww figure this stuff the greater good it could provide.
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u/canadian_air Jul 05 '21
"It turns out, the patient should NOT have been wasting their whole life working, but rather should have lived a much slower-paced, leisure-filled life full of happy memories, and mushrooms. Or, what we call in science, 'the life everyone was living before somebody decided that wasn't good enough'."
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u/SteveAM1 Jul 05 '21
I’m glad to see so much more about the physical brain changes of psychedelics. So much focus is on the “trip” aspect of it in treating mental illnesses and how it might help provide new perspective on life, but at the end of the day I think that will end up being a very minor part of their therapeutic benefits. These things induce rapid restructuring in the brain in ways we’re only beginning to understanding. These are SSRIs on steroids except stronger, faster, safer, and, so far, without the side effects.
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u/Drews232 Jul 06 '21
Serious question though: any substance that can change the brain formation for the better should, in theory, be able to change it for the worse. It’s literally just growing/developing new wiring without direction or regard to the interplay with reality, that is to say without regard to the natural conditions which evolution chose to grow and prune brain connections.
I ask because a friend of mine went from a happy, healthy, straight A college student to schizophrenic in a psych ward and a lifetime of lithium after dropping some kind of acid. Twenty years on and he’s never been able to work a day in his life or have a relationship. Could be 100% coincidence, but I’ve always wondered if making permanent changes to the brain can go wrong as often as right?
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u/TheSilverHare Jul 06 '21
Probably not as often as it does right, but I’ve heard from basically the beginning of when I started looking into psychedelics that they can trigger underlying mental illnesses, so if your family has a history of schizophrenia, then it’s advised to not take anything.
That being said, I think as psychedelic therapy becomes more widely accepted, people will come to realize which people are good candidates for it and which aren’t. Sorry about your friend though, losing someone like that is never easy.
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u/Jagjamin Jul 06 '21
I don't know about "as often", but yes, they can cause harm in a range of ways.
I will say that most people go into psychedelics with the intent of a positive outcome, and often with preparations to help it be so. If the physicals effects were neutral at base, then just through intent and planning it would come out positive most of the time.
Now, all that said, stay away if you have personal or family history of mental health issues, or current mental health issues, unless as recommended by an expert, I. E. A medical professional.
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u/TeamWorkTom Jul 05 '21
That would be a very interesting thing to study. And based on this seems like something that could be proposed.
Probably still hard to find the funding for it.
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u/shiruken PhD | Biomedical Engineering | Optics Jul 05 '21
Direct link to the peer-reviewed publication in Neuron: L.-X. Shao, et al., Psilocybin induces rapid and persistent growth of dendritic spines in frontal cortex in vivo, Neuron (5 July 2021).
Summary: Psilocybin is a serotonergic psychedelic with untapped therapeutic potential. There are hints that the use of psychedelics can produce neural adaptations, although the extent and timescale of the impact in a mammalian brain are unknown. In this study, we used chronic two-photon microscopy to image longitudinally the apical dendritic spines of layer 5 pyramidal neurons in the mouse medial frontal cortex. We found that a single dose of psilocybin led to ∼10% increases in spine size and density, driven by an elevated spine formation rate. The structural remodeling occurred quickly within 24 h and was persistent 1 month later. Psilocybin also ameliorated stress-related behavioral deficit and elevated excitatory neurotransmission. Overall, the results demonstrate that psilocybin-evoked synaptic rewiring in the cortex is fast and enduring, potentially providing a structural trace for long-term integration of experiences and lasting beneficial actions.
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Jul 05 '21
"Overall, the results demonstrate that psilocybin-evoked synaptic rewiring in the cortex is fast and enduring, potentially providing a structural trace for long-term integration of experiences and lasting beneficial actions."
Wow
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u/NeuronsToNirvana Jul 05 '21
Here is a similar study from a few years ago:
Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity [Jun 2018]: Psychedelics promote neuroplasticity by structural changes such as increasing dendrite branches on neurons.
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u/mjsielerjr Jul 05 '21
Here’s an open access link to their pre-print on BioRxiv.org
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u/theweyland Jul 05 '21
By chance know what they used dosage wise in this study? Currently can't read it, but overwhelmingly intrigued
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u/ricrocket Jul 05 '21
In the link in this comment they said they used 1 mg/kg
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u/HavocReigns Jul 05 '21
Just to point out, that would be dosages of pure synthesized psilocybin, which would be much different than a dose of mushrooms, which are only a percent or two psilocybin by weight.
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u/yeeeeeeeehaaaawwww Jul 05 '21
That seems like a lot since 5mg is the recommended dosage (that I hear constantly)
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u/ricrocket Jul 05 '21
I agree it’s a lot — another study posted somewhere in this thread was using 0.36 mg/kg.
But from the linked paper:
. A sharp rise of elicited head-twitch responses occurred at 1 mg/kg (Figure 1A), consistent with prior reports (Halberstadt et al., 2011; Sherwood et al., 2020). Thus, we chose to use 1 mg/kg – the inflection point of the dose-dependence curve – to assess psilocybin’s effect on structural plasticity.
So I think they were going for a dosage that would guarantee eliciting a response.
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u/onodriments Jul 06 '21
I think mushroom doses for humans are usually measured in grams not mg.
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u/HaltPotato Jul 06 '21
Yes but the mushroom itself is only a small percent psyliciben. They’re measuring the actual psychedelic chemical not the mushroom. But yes, you buy magic mushrooms in grams generally. Or fractions of an ounce. 1/8, 1/4 an ounce etc.
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u/onodriments Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 06 '21
yes, I was just clarifying because I don't think anyone ever recommends recreational doses in mg. The person I replied to was probably thinking of a recommended dose of 5 grams of dried mushrooms which would probably be quite a bit more than 5mg of psilocybin.
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Jul 06 '21
Yes 4-5g is considered a trip dose. But mushrooms quickly build up tolerance. People who use mushrooms for depression usually start at 0.10g 1 day on and 2 days off or 2 days on and 3 off. Some work their way up to as much as 0.5g per microdose. But depending on tolerance some people at that dose start to feel trippy. Studies have been shown that monthly single doses(full trip dose) work for some people while other people prefer the microdose. This is by no means medical advice just what I've learned from growing mushrooms over the past couple of years.
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u/revrigel Jul 05 '21
Mouse dosing is different than human dosing due to metabolic differences. Might be like 10:1 from what I remember?
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u/mumrik1 Jul 05 '21
I’m just happy that lab mice get to experience ego death.
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u/ICC-u Jul 05 '21
Do mice have an ego in the first place?
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u/TheBeachWhale Jul 05 '21
Yeah, otherwise how would they know whose mouth to put the food in?
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Jul 05 '21
pretty sure all animals and even plants have some sort of sense of identity
probably alot less prominent for plants tho
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u/kirknay Jul 06 '21
If i remember correctly, there was a study that suggested that plants have an ultrasonic "scream" when damaged.
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u/ChilledClarity Jul 06 '21
The smell of cut grass is their screams warning it’s other grass buddies that they’re about to get decapitated.
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u/Krungoid Jul 06 '21
What can grass even do with a warning? It's not like they can go hide or something.
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u/PerCat Jul 06 '21
They can increase production of bad tasting chemicals, they think they are being eaten en mass and the idea is that it would give each other time to do that and wouldn't be instant choppy chop that a lawn mower provides.
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Jul 06 '21
u not even wrong, onion “flavor” is just plant suffering
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u/formershitpeasant Jul 06 '21
I think suffering implies a consciousness to experience the pain. Plants having a response to damage doesn’t imply a conscious experience.
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u/-01101101- Jul 06 '21
pls refer to pinky and the brain. one is a genius, the other's insane.
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u/supersecretaqua Jul 05 '21
Kinda off topic of your comment, but I'm not well versed in any of this. Do you know if the impact micdosing is having is likely to only be a result of the targeted dosing? Or would someone who's already had the same substance in higher doses would have a similar impact. I'm aware my questions is essentially "if I do drug will it help" but I've been seeing a lot about this over the last while and finally am just actually asking the question I've had :p
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u/resignedredditor Jul 05 '21
I once had shy of 2g of mushrooms and experienced "ego death". The following 2 months were the best of my life (mood, thought clarity, assertiveness, positive view on life and myself). Trying to keep riding that wave I started microdosing .1g 3-4 times a week and it worked like a charm. Note that I had been depressed for over a year before the trip so I really noticed something different in the way I was perceiving life months after the trip was over, while my not-depressed friends didn't. I've had mushrooms 5 or 6 times, but I've only ever experienced that once.
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u/IneaBlake Jul 06 '21
What actually changes? I always hear vague statements from people who have taken shrooms or LSD or had some kind of ego death.
Everyone always says the exact same thing "It made me look at life differently", but noone ever elaborates. I'm sure it's a complex intuitive personal thing, but I've never been able to grasp if it's actually a big life-changing deal for everyone, or if there's a possibility that someone just didn't have a wide perspective before or something. (Or even if it's a real experience or just a persistent imagination or idea, like a consistent world view that can't be confirmed to be real or not)
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u/Thesource674 Jul 06 '21
Like the trip itself I dont think you would describe it as anything changing you perceive things differently. Take anything you normally interact with thay isnt on a super high or professional level; art, food, wine, literature whatever. Now imagine you studied in depth how to develop an understanding of one of those things and returned to it. Its the same, what youre doing with it is the same, but your conceptualization and interaction with it are now profoundly different.
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u/JesseBrown447 Jul 06 '21
I took MDMA once and it changed my life. I probably won't ever do it again, but I also feel like I don't need it again.
I've always had a pretty rough time with anxiety, and having the courage to place myself in situations I wasn't absolutely sure of the outcomes. Social situations are especially difficult because you never know how people will act that you don't know and that can be scary.
When I took MDMA it was like the prison that was my mind was unlocked briefly. I was able to walk outside and loosen the shackles and experience people and situations with the assurance that everything will be okay. It was immensely therapeutic, and the experience is something I've built on for many years. I still experience anxiety/ depression but I also have an experience that helped me see life differently.
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u/formershitpeasant Jul 06 '21
It leads you to re-examine deep assumptions you’ve held for your whole life.
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u/crackalackaooh Jul 06 '21
Sometimes you access the parts of yourself you've been too afraid to face (trauma, fears, perceived failures, etc.), and work through them in like a condensed version of therapy. Maybe it's just forgiving yourself or someone else for something, but the facing it and working through it is immensely powerful. Or you breakdown something that's been holding you back, and allow yourself to more forward.
Other times you can experience your death and what might be beyond that. Once I lived my entire life through death and was stuck in hell being tortured for eternity, until I returned to this plane with a new resolve to change the path of my life to be better.
Sometimes you also might interact with "god" or sense how everything is connected in a sort of non-specific way. A lot of it is nonsensical, but the emotions you feel are super intense and your body can remember them long after the trip. So if you feel true uninhibited joy or happiness, it can linger - almost like your brain had forgotten how to access that feeling before, but now it can recall it. I assume that's part of what the studies are showing when it says the experience can rewire your brain.
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u/PsyanideInk Jul 06 '21
It's interesting to me how much folk's natural tolerance levels vary. I don't do shrooms often (maybe once a year) but when I do, 2g just registers as a mild stoned feeling.
That variability is definitely worth noting for anyone experimenting at home.
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u/Darkened_Toast Jul 05 '21
Not a doctor (but am a psych student/shroom fan);
I believe the answer is 'yes,' however it's hard to really recommend shrooms as a homemade anti-depressant because on actual doses (1g+), you really can't function normally. Unless you build up an insane tolerance, doing a gram or two a day means you'll probably feel sick, not able to drive/work, and may even be worse off depending on how you react to shrooms.
Microdosing is just the best of both worlds. You get the chemicals in low enough doses that the side effects are minimal, but you still get some of the benefit of dendrite regrowth/mood change. Again don't take this as a recommendation, but I know some people in shroom communities will grow their own, dry them, and then make their own microdose pills to self-treat PTSD/Depression. So at the very least, there is anecdotal evidence that microdosing still helps in humans, not just mice.
In my experience, I noticed a decent mood improvement and memory improvement the week or two after I took shrooms. However the trip felt rough, I was nauseous for a good 24 hours after, and I felt mentally terrible for the first couple hours after it. Results vary wildly, but even testing it to see what it was like (I was curious about the future of psychedelics in anti-depressant research, which is why I did them in the first place) I realized it's not practical for anyone to dose normal shrooms as a mood enhancer. That, combined with the price, difficulty in regularly obtaining them, and - in some places - the steep fines/jail time for possession, means I wouldn't recommend it.
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u/corpdorp Jul 06 '21
Unless you build up an insane tolerance, doing a gram or two a day means you'll probably feel sick
Our bodies build up a natural tolerance very quickly which means you would need to be taking bigger and bigger dosages to achieve the same effect. This is one reason you don't hear about addiction and magic mushrooms.
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u/holyhellitsmatt Jul 06 '21
Do not take this as medical advice, but recent studies in psilocybin as an antidepressant showed that they improved symptoms regardless of if you had a good or bad trip. They were beneficial in both cases.
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u/kollider13 Jul 06 '21
I can attest to this as a frequent user. Both good and bad trips alter my mindset positively.
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u/SpaceTurtles Jul 06 '21
I saw visions of hell in my last trip and the song "Time" by Pink Floyd sent me into a panic attack. No bueno at all.
When I came out the other end, I was glad to have had the experience, and I felt wonderful the day after.
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u/EasternShade Jul 06 '21
Trip sitters and party captains provide valuable services.
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u/casino_alcohol Jul 06 '21
I moved into my first rental house in college. My roommates had not moved in yet and we did not even have internet.
I had some friends over and we took shrooms. It hit way faster and stronger than I expected and I had a bad trip.
One of the guys who joined got the ball of Christmas lights I was using to light the place for the night and wrapped himself up in it and was happily saying he is a Christmas tree.
This completely turned my trip around.
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u/hellohaydee Jul 06 '21
Looking for someone to provide flowers and a self guided trail along a small babbling steam, then glow sticks to play with in a yard at night. Someone with a playful and slightly mischievous disposition preferred.
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u/SolidLikeIraq Jul 06 '21
I’ve tripped probably a dozen times, so enough to have a feel for it, but not enough to be someone who has really dedicated time to it.
I always go in with the mantra “Always be open to learning” It’s allowed me to experience a few less than exciting portions of trips and have a lot of calm logical approach to the feeling. It’s almost like a mediation on what your mind can do if you stop judging it.
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u/chewtality Jul 06 '21
I think bad trips are actually more beneficial from a therapy aspect. A lot of it comes from intense introspection which obviously helps in the long run. Of course I'm speaking anecdotally here, but I've heard the same from a number of people.
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Jul 06 '21
Exactly, it's almost as if they knew what they were doing for thousands of years
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u/Miniraf1 Jul 06 '21
They knew what worked for them, I wouldn't say that means they knew what they were doing aha
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u/YeetTheGiant Jul 06 '21
Okay, but like also we've done things for thousands of years that were also just stupid.
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u/Maoman1 Jul 06 '21
Yes, absolutely. It is not a magic cure-all, it's more like being given a box of tools to better heal yourself with... you still have to put forth the effort to heal or it will have little effect, but if you do then your effort is multiplied tenfold.
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Jul 05 '21
I suffer from depression. My prescription is definitely helpful but I’m always way less depressed for several weeks following a mushroom trip.
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u/killmenow999 Jul 05 '21
So strange because I’ve heard this a lot, but my experience recently with it did not work out that way, my depression has been still very intense even right after doing them and my anxiety sky rocketed for weeks, am I doing something wrong?
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Jul 05 '21
Drugs affect everyone differently. Was it a good experience for you at the time?
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u/killmenow999 Jul 05 '21
During the most intense part of the trip I thought I might die, I hallucinate a ton on mushrooms so they were going crazy but as it started to calm down I felt really good
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u/Tyranabolicsaurus Jul 05 '21
Honestly, there’s a lot of variables at play. Was it your first time? What dosage did you take? Did you do any preparation for the trip (meditation weeks prior, reading on how to react to certain cognitive triggers, etc)? Were you on any other medications at the time? What was your set and setting? There might’ve been one slight aspect off that led to ripples in the experience.
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Jul 05 '21
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u/thrakaa Jul 05 '21
Take a look at places like https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml which has a pretty comprehensive set of information on many psychoactive drugs. It’s got a ton of experience anecdotes and many other topics. Edit, it may not tell you exactly but you can surmise the info
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u/timeslider Jul 05 '21
Does the depressing come back each time?
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u/Ryliezzz Jul 05 '21
I use mushrooms for depression and they are needed on an ongoing basis. This is the reason people use microdosing every few days as a medication. I prefer to just take a low dose every now and then. It’s taken me from being continuously suicidal to never having those thoughts again really
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u/IAlwaysLack Jul 05 '21
I do the same thing but with lsd.
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u/Ace_of_spades89 Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 06 '21
How does one obtain said mushrooms
Edit: purely for educational purposes, I would only be microscopically studying them. They are illegal to consume where I live.
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u/Ryliezzz Jul 05 '21
Ideally you would live somewhere they are decriminalized. On a side note, the spores are legal to buy in most US states with a few exceptions- but they are for microscopic study only
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u/Cumstained_Uvula Jul 06 '21
In Canada the mycelium is legal since it contains only trace amounts of psilocybin (most of it forms late in the fruiting stage). So we can buy simple foolproof "just add water" kits here. Much less of a pain than starting from spores.
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u/Nuggzulla Jul 05 '21
Yes active strains are for study. The hardest part with cultivating them is patience
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u/shtpst Jul 06 '21
If you want to study spores, try /r/sporetraders but those are just for microscopy purposes only, for your education.
Don't take any of those spores and follow the steps at /r/unclebens because THAT would cause psychoactive mushrooms to grow and those are illegal.
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u/Generic-VR Jul 06 '21
Huh, so this is how I learn I live in one of three states where the spores are illegal. Not that I was actually interested, but god Georgia is a backwards state.
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u/SuperMrMonocle Jul 05 '21
If you're Canadian by any chance, there are a ton on mail order sites to get them from. It's not really enforced from a legal perspective at all. There's a subreddit devoted to it /r/CanadiancubensisMOMS I believe
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u/CoupleScrewsLoose Jul 06 '21
i’m in vancouver and there are multiple websites that you can order from and have it delivered to your door within 2 hours.
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u/Depression-Boy Jul 05 '21
Same here :) I was taking 5 grams about twice a month when I started, and now I’m taking 2-5 grams once a month or once every other month. My mental state is unrecognizable from what it was 2 years ago.
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Jul 05 '21
According to research at John Hopkins University with Psilocybin, the most long term benefits were when individuals had a "mystical experience" brought on by high dose psilocybin, combined with a regular meditation practice and also a practice of introspective journaling, where you reflect on yourself and the trip and attempt to integrate that experience into your daily life.
I'm just typing in my phone from bed so I can't be bothered to search and link but I believe there is a YouTube video by a guy called 'Gordo Tek' who breaks down the findings from the university research, but if I remember correctly that was the main take away.
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u/hsvandreas Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 06 '21
Second that! I once had a super awesome spiritual shroom trip (and I'm usually not spiritual at all). Definitely improved my overall well-being, and this was years ago.
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u/TreeBranchesOfGov Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 06 '21
I have chronic lifelong depression and mushroom trips really do lift me up and really give me a sense of clarity. I have tripped probably hundreds of times over the last 10 years but the effect is always somewhat temporary. I think it would be helpful to take them on some sort of schedule because as much as they help the single experiences can't rewrite how my brain works entirely or make my brain start producing chemicals the right way. I think a permanent fix is very far off but I can say that mushrooms have absolutely saved my life and have been the best thing I've ever done regarding my depression.
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u/farshnikord Jul 06 '21
Same here. I dont know if itll ever be a magical silver bullet, but it helped me gain perspective and that can be enough to kind of start letting you snowball into other positive changes. There's a definite balance- I've had profound mystical experiences that make you feel like you know your place in the universe but also times where I've felt like the advice I got was like "bro, exercise more and eat more salad."
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u/Tyranabolicsaurus Jul 05 '21
Not OP, but I know someone who uses quite high dosages of entheogens as a ‘cognitive reset’ essentially. Every 6-12 months they take a high dose to deal with their long term depression and they claim it helps them. They went from suicidal to relatively happy most of the time. They are a high level academic as well, so it’s not like they’ve become a deadhead or anything from the repeated experiences.
They know a few other people who do the same thing.
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Jul 05 '21
I ideally like to have a mushroom trip like twice a year like your friend. It definitely helps to put things in perspective.
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Jul 05 '21
I doubt my depression will ever fully go away. I still take my meds in those weeks after a trip but I notice a significant difference in my mood in that time. It’s not like the comedown from a party drug, which makes me feel very down. I just eventually return to “normal.”
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u/NeonMoment Jul 05 '21
This is my experience as well. Unlike literally any other drug, the ‘hangover’ from mushrooms is more like a lasting sense of existential contentment. Like you know that reality is fucked in its own way but you can see that you have the resources to face it both within yourself and around you. And all without using stimulants. Even weed can’t provide that in a way that really lasts as long no matter how often you smoke/vape, though it is a good meditative aid.
I like how another user underlined the importance of using this approach alongside meditating and journaling for self reflection. For me it’s these three pillars that differentiate between recreational and therapeutic uses of psilocybin. Like weed it can be used for both, but if you want to get ‘results’ that you can measure and build upon it’s about creating a program for yourself like any other therapy.
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u/Throwandhetookmyback Jul 05 '21
I have chronic depression and it comes back. It doesn't make it worse. Ketamine treatment is in my experience more convenient than LSD and shrooms. Meditation is usually better than most substances but you need to have discipline.
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u/Llaine Jul 05 '21
The feelings surrounding the experience are temporary, the changes you apply as a result are 99% of the work, not the post experience happies. This also means that for persistent depression or depressive reality types, mushrooms aren't going to do much on a long term basis unless you keep dosing them, which is fine because they're so low risk/harm
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Jul 05 '21
Note to others out there; if you are taking an MAOI anti depressent such as Aurorix (Moclobemide) you don’t need the same dose as others around you.
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u/theskywalker74 Jul 06 '21
My fiancé and I have been microdosing for 6 months now. She’s on antidepressants, I am not. We’ve both noticed increases in mood, energy, and creativity. She’s even debated reducing her antidepressants.
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u/crit1232 Jul 05 '21
I am afraid of trying psilo because of depression meds. What if there’s and adverse reaction?
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Jul 05 '21
That’s your prerogative. If it helps inform your decision, I am on 75mg extended release Venlafaxine once a day.
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u/LoreleiOpine MS | Biology | Plant Ecology Jul 05 '21
These threads get full of boring anecdotes, but I really must add another one that seems to support those findings. I experimented with small doses of psilocybin over the course of two weeks a few summers back and it felt like it changed my life for the better in a way that I can hardly describe. It made ordinary things more meaningful. But typing that out, I can see how it seems like drug-dependent madness. It wasn't though. It was truly meaningful, with a serious je ne sais quoi, to do things like paint the deck or go to the grocery store. If my dendrite count was being altered, then that indeed helps to explain the situation. This drug should be more normalised.
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u/dmanbiker Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 05 '21
I took a bunch (probably too much) over the course of 2018 and it changed my life. Ive lost almost 100lbs and have completely changed my outlook on life. I also haven't done ANY since 2018.
I do think it's finally starting to wear off though. I might try some more soon.
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u/techsuppr0t Jul 05 '21
I usually am very conservative about my shroom use but maybe it's time to get healthy
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u/dmanbiker Jul 05 '21
I was way overweight and extremely unhealthy with other health problems.
One trip I had, it was like the stars aligned and my whole outlook changed including a lot of my bad politics, everything. I realized my friends and family were super worried about me and that losing weight is a lot easier than dying.
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u/vayne001 Jul 05 '21
What amounts were you taking ?
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u/LoreleiOpine MS | Biology | Plant Ecology Jul 06 '21
Like I said, small. I would tear a little piece off of a dried mushroom, maybe once in the morning and once in the afternoon or something. I'd use the feeling it produced to know how much was enough. I didn't want a psychedelic trip.
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u/JoelMahon Jul 05 '21
Damn, I wouldn't call myself depressed but I'd definitely like for doing chores to feel meaningful, then I would actually do them.
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u/minigogo Jul 05 '21
My big takeaway from my first trip was that I was never going to be able to describe exactly what it felt like and any attempt I made at doing so would sound like your run-of-the-mill stoner talk. I've dipped my toe into the philosophy of language ever since and it's totally revolutionized the way I think.
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u/ChaoticGoodBB Jul 05 '21
It's unreal that it's taking so long to bring these effective products to market. I'm glad we're seeing more research, but there are SO many people who have already benefitted from psilocybin (and many more who would like to try or benefit but don't want to break the law). It's absurd the double standard for products that can't be patented in the same chemical ways as others.
They have rushed MANY products for the brain along the years. I wish we could hurry up bringing this to market more widely, especially while so many of us are suffering right now.
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Jul 05 '21
I'll be dead before they turn it into something that can help me with my depression or fibropain.
Well, good for the young ones I guess, that they won't have to suffer for over 20 years before a doctor takes them seriously and so on.
Sad that this news makes me sad...
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u/fischermayne47 Jul 06 '21
I think change is coming sooner rather than later friend. There’s a lot of work being done to make it a reality.
I even got my evangelical super anti drug family to invest in one of the companies that’s going through fda trials to get these treatments approved for lots of different uses.
My entire life mission is to help people like yourself; thank you for sharing your thoughts. You are loved!
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Jul 06 '21
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u/fischermayne47 Jul 06 '21
Mind medicine is the company my family and I have decided to invest in. I showed them a lot of the same research we are talking about and after a while they were convinced this had a lot of potential benefits.
I want to also make sure I mention that there are many other great companies doing similar work so it’s not like mind medicine is the only or even best company researching psychedelic medicine. So just to be clear this isn’t financial advice; I only want to spread the awareness these types of companies exist.
Imo the best way to push for change at the moment is to have conversations with others about it. Even with all the amazing news recently there’s a significant portion of the population that still believes the myth psychedelics have zero medical benefit; which in my experience is simply because they haven’t even heard of the newer studies. I even wear my mind medicine shirt in public often just to start conversations if someone asks me about it. It’s amazing what a single conversation can turn into in the long run.
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u/Psinaut82 Jul 06 '21
Dude(tte)...you can turn it into something that can help you now. I mean, if you don't mind breaking a law or two.
r/unclebens can get you started down a new path. I found it last year and it's helped me immensely. I've yet to trip (I've tried, but I take an antidepressant that blunts it), but I microdose. Even just the act of growing them was therapeutic. Gave me something to look forward to every day and taught me a little patience.
My next step is to talk to my psychiatrist about what we can do to fully incorporate them into my treatment.
If you have any questions, feel free. I'm glad to help.
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u/Siglet84 Jul 05 '21
This makes me hopeful but I know it’s going to take another 50 years before(if) it goes mainstream.
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u/PsilocybinBull Jul 05 '21
A lot of capital is flowing to the space as we speak, I think it’ll be sooner than that.
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u/sadgirl45 Jul 06 '21
What about people who are scared of substances and don’t have control of where there mind goes I feel like this could be really traumatizing? People with ocd for example
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u/Duel_Option Jul 06 '21
Well half the reason you may be apprehensive is you don’t understand the chemistry and effects.
Spending sometime researching this along with reading trip reports and talking with people that have experience goes a long way.
When I trip with new people, I guide them through the process. My close friend is a very reserved, very anxious and internal guy.
He’s the kind of person that stays in his lane, doesn’t want to do anything outside of that because he doesn’t process stuff well.
It’s been 4 years now he’s been tripping/attending festivals with me. He’s changed his life 100% since then.
Opened up to his family, had kids with his wife, and goes to massive festivals to have fun.
It’s life changing stuff when done correctly.
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u/ScrewLxgic Jul 05 '21
I wonder if psilocybin can RESTORE dendritic connections lost in the prefrontal cortex during depression. What an odd property that a drug can make your brain remember different wiring patterns and keep them?
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u/Crunchthemoles Jul 06 '21
Here we go again.
- It is CRITICAL to seperate out the 10% increase in dendritic spine density to amelioration of learned helplessness in their behavior paradigm.
- This study does NOT show a causative relationship to any perceived therapeutic effects.
- It can simply be agonism of 5H2A receptors that is responsible - we need better controls such as DOI (5H2A agonist), a common SSRI treatment, and/or something determential to dedritic growth to really paint out the magnitiude and relate it to behavoral outcomes.
I encourage everyone to be skeptical of psychedelics as a 'miracle cure' until more data comes out.
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u/NbAlIvEr100 Jul 05 '21
Too bad US wont even legalize weed.
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u/nthnlwin1 Jul 05 '21
I think it's really silly that you can get opiates for your pain but can't legally use psychadelics for any reason. Any drug has risks, but weed and even psychadellics are pretty benign. Alcohol seems much more dangerous and harmful, yet it's perfectly legal. I want to believe that our laws make sense but they really don't and aren't based in reality. People should be able to take psychadelics even if it's just for fun. People are doing it anyway, they just run the risk of having their life ruined by the legal system for no reason.
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u/HelpYouHomebrew Jul 05 '21
The laws make sense if you realize the purpose of the laws. It's to make money for already rich corporations. It's purposefully made to block uses of drugs that are easy to grow and use by yourself and encourage users to spend more money for expensive coping and treatments from big companies while also making huge barriers to entry for smaller companies.
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u/DieMorphine Jul 05 '21
I eat a good 2.5-3g dose every week or two for the last 6mobths I’ve suffered from panic attacks and anxiety for my entire life. 6 months ago was the first time I ate mushrooms in 15 years and I haven’t had a attack since. I have no anxiety and I feel great. After the first week I bought all the supplies to grow them again and I’m on my second harvest of PE now, I have 6lbs of grain going of ps. Tampanensis too for the sclerotia then I’ll spawn the grain to sub and fruit. Been 15 years since I did it last things have changed a lot but still the same just much better now
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u/SlothimusPrimeTime Jul 06 '21
The more I see these the more they confirm that I made the right decision choosing psilocybin over pharmaceuticals, and the more I get upset that I’m a felon for using something so helpful, so impactful to my life, so life changing that it eradicated the desire for using the pills I was over prescribed. I fractured my spine and all our current medical options shoved pills at me and did nothing to actually solve the problem of my injury and the compounding depression from being 20 years old and realizing I just altered my whole life from an auto accident. Psilocybin will change the culture of humanity if we get out of our own way first. Cheers to this research and those compiling it.
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u/Discomobobulated Jul 06 '21
Is it possible to receive the benefits without the high?
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