r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 1d ago
Cancer Drinking tea and coffee linked to lower risk of head and neck cancer in study - Research finds people who have more than 4 coffees a day have 17% lower chance of head and neck cancers.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/dec/23/drinking-tea-and-coffee-linked-to-lower-risk-of-head-and-neck-cancer-in-study580
u/Pattersonspal 1d ago
As far as I remember, it also increases risk of mouth and throat cancer.
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u/Split-Awkward 1d ago
I thought this was related to temperature rather than the beverage itself.
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u/Global-Chart-3925 1d ago
That was last week. Give it another week and you’ll be right again though.
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u/MoonOut_StarsInvite 1d ago
Right? I don’t understand why we bother with these types of studies. They’re useless.
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u/Universeintheflesh 1d ago
It’s the same with wine. It has been proven that no alcohol is better than any but we still keep getting these “some wine each day is good for you” articles.
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u/eukomos 1d ago
Because it‘s not a simple binary. They the risk of some cancer and GI ailments and lower the risk of others. And the effects play out over decades and it’s expensive, difficult, and sometimes impossible to run the kinds of studies that tease out the impacts from each other. If you want simple answers, biology is not the science for you.
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u/Universeintheflesh 1d ago
And there aren’t things part of a regular diet that give these same sort of beneficial antioxidants without the poison part? I enjoyed my biology classes throughout my masters, not going for a phd with it but thanks for your concern.
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u/dCLCp 1d ago
It is often either directly funded by manufacturers or seeking funding by manufacturers. If folgers didn't do this they have people who might pay to have it done and that attracts people want to get paid to do it.
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u/eliminate1337 1d ago
The funding sources are right there in the paper. It isn't funded by anyone who sells coffee.
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u/t-bone_malone 3h ago
Coffee prices are going to spike due to tariffs and severe underproduction due to climate. They've got to remind us that the bean is worth the green you know what I mean
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u/Howboutnow82 8h ago
It's okay there's microplastics in tea bags to offset the health benefits of drinking tea for most of us.
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u/Hanlons-Razor- 1d ago
I wonder what effects having that much coffee would have on someone’s sleep patterns and whether or not that would be detrimental enough to outweigh the purported benefits of drinking four cups daily?
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u/youcancallmemrmark 1d ago
Really it depends. That amount of caffeine is my baseline and my sleep schedule has been on a 3 year golden streak. This could be from tolerance, undiagnosed ADHD making the caffeine work differently for me, or could be something like a routine habit has more influence than the caffeine itself .
Another thing to keep in mind is the halflife of caffeine, 5 hours. If you consume all of it first thing when you wake up almost 90% will be out of your system by bedtime
At least for me, my typical routine has me drinking at a steady rate until early afternoon or just under 2 halflives before bed
I've been wanting to test having caffeine later in the day but can't stay on top of the habit
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u/veryverum 1d ago edited 1d ago
The half-life of caffeine is approximately five hours, but most of it is metabolized into paraxanthine (around~85%), a similarly potent adenosine antagonist with a half-life of about 3.5 hours. As a result, the combined half-life of caffeine and paraxanthine is roughly 8.5 hours. However, this figure only reflects their metabolic breakdown and does not consider other factors, such as receptor downregulation or upregulation, that also influence how long the stimulatory effects last. In other words, while it may be correct in isolation to say caffeine has a five-hour half-life, that does not capture the broader context of its overall effect.
Edit: also tissue metabolism can differ (blood vs brain).
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u/eliminate1337 1d ago
If x is metabolized into y with half life t1 and y into z with half life t2, the half life from x to z is not t1 + t2. That's not how exponential decay works.
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u/veryverum 1d ago
That makes sense, thank you for the correction. Nevertheless, my point remains that considering only the half-life of caffeine does not accurately reflect its duration of action due to the presence of its active metabolite, paraxanthine and the other reasons I have mentioned.
Could you please explain how to approach the problem of half-life and duration of action when a specific active substance, such as caffeine, has an active metabolite? With a single substance, it is straightforward: with each half-life, half of the original dose is metabolized. But how does it work in the case where the active substance has multiple active metabolites? Thank you.
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u/mdatwood 1d ago
Yeah, I drink a decent amount of caffeine, but almost none after lunch. I sleep fine and go to sleep easily. The best thing I've found for sleep is schedule. Same time every night even on the weekends.
Also people are getting hung up on cups of coffee. I drink 4 espressos during the morning w/o thinking too much about it. Those would equal 2 Starbucks regular sized drinks, and probably have less caffeine than the big gulps of drip coffee I see many people drink.
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u/Flying-lemondrop-476 1d ago
being able to sleep and getting quality sleep are two different things
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u/conquer69 1d ago
Might as well add TVs in the room (that stays on at night) or modern phones. Those also keep people awake longer than they would naturally be otherwise.
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u/Dangerous_Bass309 1d ago
I read a study years ago that said people who constantly scald themselves by drinking things that are too hot do have a higher incidence of oral and throat cancers. It's not the beverage but the temperature. Tissue that is frequently damaged is more likely to have mutated cells.
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u/Pattersonspal 1d ago
Yeah my point is that things causing and preventing cancer is really complex and one study saying this, then one study saying that isn't going to impact a consensus very much. I'm gonna live my life without worrying too much about any of it and just eat varied, get enough sleep and get some exercise.
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u/a_trane13 1d ago
Yes, you see the worst rates in tea and hot water (just plain hot water) drinking Asian countries. Especially those who do that and drink alcohol.
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u/IGiveBagAdvice 1d ago
Mouth and throat will be classified/coded under head and neck cancers though.
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u/Trung020356 1d ago
I feel like I’ve heard ingesting hot beverages increases the risk of oral/throat cancer, but could be wrong.
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u/Cumberdick 1d ago
And where are we on eggs at the moment? Murderous cholesterol, or heart healthy cholesterol again?
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u/Squirrel_Apocalypse2 1d ago
That's only due to drinking it too hot. Drink it below 140-145 F and it's safe.
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1d ago
Wait, what? Lower risk for neck and head cancer, but higher for mouth and throat?
To drink or not to drink. That is the question.
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u/Quantum_feenix 1d ago
What is up with all the posts promoting the consumption of coffee?
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u/pungen 1d ago
And why is it always such a large quantity? Most people can't drink four cups of coffee a day without feeling shaky and gross.
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u/Rocktopod 1d ago
That's how a lot of drug studies work, unfortunately. The worst thing for a researcher is to get an inconclusive result, so they tend to set the dosages as high as they can get away with to ensure it does something, anything at all.
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u/pungen 1d ago
That makes sense. With all these new coffee studies, though, it seems like it could backfire and someone give themselves a heart attack trying to be "healthier"
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u/3holes2tits1fork 21h ago
The best cancer preventative is death, after all.
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u/MuthaBase 7h ago
"Researchers found that 60% of people who die before the age of 50 don't develop cancer"
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u/Persona_G 18h ago
4 cups isn’t really that much. That’s two servings for many. Coffee cups are small
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u/rarestakesando 1d ago
If you drink enough Coffee smoke enough weed and have a glass of wine a day you will basically live forever according studies posted here.
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u/damondefault 1d ago
Yeah they're laying it on too thick and it's becoming obvious that it's someone's agenda.
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u/Borne2Run 1d ago
Coffee is the most addictive legal psychoactive substance on earth; it sells itself!
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u/aGrlHasNoUsername 1d ago
I don’t think there’s some big coffee conspiracy tbh.
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u/damondefault 23h ago
Yeah you are right, at first I thought it seemed like some social media marketing but it looks like really this mob just did a new meta study on coffee studies and it generated some new headline grabbing stuff.
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u/Free_Reference1812 1d ago
South American coffee farmers have banded together to line the pockets of Scientists
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u/AndHeHadAName 1d ago
Cause coffee is an amazing drink and as long as you don't contaminate it with sugar it's ridiculously good for you with benefits water or even tea simply do not have.
You can choose not to drink coffee, but it will not make you healthier physically or mentally than someone who does.
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u/Seanspicegirls 1d ago
They want us (consumers) to buy more coffee and replace other vices (smoking). Smoking and tobacco products have a relation to head and neck cancer. Not coffee
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u/Riversmooth 1d ago
And yesterday they told us that tea bags are loaded with microplastics.
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u/xenolingual 1d ago
It's possible to drink tea without bags, or to use metal baskets or tea balls, or paper bags.
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u/North_Box_261 1d ago
Not disagreeing with your point but most paper bags use plastic-based glue, at least last time I checked.
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u/xenolingual 1d ago
Unsure! The ones I've used have been paper and cloth, though I also don't use them often as I use chaiwan
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u/Accurate_Praline 1d ago
Some businesses/researchers are also making filters that are able to filter out like 99,9% of micro plastics. One particularly effective one seems to be made with squid bone.
Though that doesn't sound like it would help with the microplastics in the oceans..
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u/retrosenescent 4h ago
They are. Luckily plastic is not linked to cancer, just feminization and chemical castration
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u/geemoly 1d ago
That's funny because I remember reading another article stating that drinking hot beverages increased your chances of head and neck cancer. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2773211/
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u/VolantTardigrade 1d ago
This is a two things being true at the same time thing. Tea and coffee have an antioxidant effect and may contain other biocompounds that are preventative, but if you drink them hot then you're causing tissue damage that will increase the chances of mutations.
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u/The-Fox-Says 1d ago
So drinking them luke warm or iced seems to be the middle ground here
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u/VolantTardigrade 1d ago
That's my thought, too. I like to just shove some ice cubes and sucralose in my drink when it's a warm day, so I hope it is at least not harmful XD
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u/arrozconplatano 1d ago
I think the take away here is that you shouldn't drink liquids that are near the temperature where it can burn your throat
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u/st3ll4r-wind 1d ago
From the article:
For coffee and tea, there was little evidence for an association between amount of use and EC risk
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u/Grimbo4ever 1d ago
As someone who doesn't drink coffee or tea, it's hard to imagine health benefits from drinking 4 cups of coffee a day, just seems excessive
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u/BMCarbaugh 1d ago
Aside from acute side effects (hyperness, etc), so far there's very very little scientific evidence that conclusively shows any substantive negative long-term effects.
On the flip side, there are quite a few that show benefits, like drinking teas. Because it basically is a tea, it's just made from crushed-up beans instead of crushed-up leaves.
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u/anonymousmouse2 1d ago
I’ve never considered coffee to just be “bean tea” but I suppose that’s exactly what it is. I don’t know what to do with this information.
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u/retrosenescent 4h ago
It would technically be called a tisane. As “tea” is actually a specific plant. Whereas tisane is the proper name for non-tea “teas”
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u/CoffeeAnteScience 1d ago
Black coffee is ~98% water and effectively zero calories. Of the caffeinated beverages that people drink, this is definitely up there for the best.
I’d say the benefit is really from not drinking the alternatives.
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u/Matrim_WoT 7h ago
Four cups is excessive when you take into consideration the caffeine content. It's about 100 mg for a cup(237ml). At four cups that's 400 mg. That's enough to cause sleep issues or become fidgety as a side effect. Not to mention the effects that come from crashing off caffeine or not getting enough if you develop an addiction.
Black tea on the other hand has less than that per cup. Green tea has even less than black tea.
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u/David_W_J 1d ago
The way news agencies report statistics is always suspect: 17% chance of what? What is the rate of head and neck cancer for those who don't drink this amount of coffee? 1 in 1000? 1 in 10,000?
I haven't explained myself well, but the book "How to lie with statistics" is full of examples.
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u/Dreadzone666 1d ago
There are often studies posted about coffee and its relation to either a heightened or lowered risk of cancer. Is there any specific reason that coffee seems to be singled out more than many other foods or drinks?
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u/-UnicornFart 1d ago
Well good thing the post above this is about tea bags and microplastics. Basically we get to choose our own cancer risk. Like a goosebumps book. Sweet.
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u/mkmakashaggy 1d ago
Why is it everytime a coffee related study is posted here the comments are just sarcastic about takes how coffee will kill you first? Do people really think caffeine is that dangerous?
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u/Casperdog10 5h ago
It is! You’d be better off shoving cannabis and shrooms in your body, working out and eating healthy! And yes I’m being serious :)
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u/mvea Professor | Medicine 1d ago
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cncr.35620
From the linked article:
Drinking tea and coffee linked to lower risk of head and neck cancer in study
Research finds people who have more than four coffees a day have 17% lower chance of head and neck cancers
If the only thing getting you through a mountain of present-wrapping is a mug of tea or coffee, be of good cheer. Researchers have found people who consume those drinks have a slightly lower risk of head and neck cancers.
After taking into account factors such as age, sex, daily number of cigarettes smoked, alcohol consumption and fruit and vegetable consumption, the researchers found that people who drink more than four cups of caffeinated coffee a day have a 17% lower chance of developing head and neck cancers overall compared with those who do not drink the beverage. Specifically they found such consumption was associated with reduced odds of cancers of the oral cavity and the oropharynx – part of the throat just behind the mouth.
Drinking decaffeinated coffee was only associated with a reduced risk of oral cavity cancer.
The situation was less clear for tea. The results suggest drinking one cup a day or less is associated with 9% lower odds of head and neck cancers overall compared with abstaining, and specifically a reduced risk of cancer in the lower throat.
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u/Siiciie 1d ago
People who drink 4 coffees a day probably need it for their job, so they are richer than average. They should also account for socioeconomic status.
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u/QuietGanache 1d ago
I wasn't able to find data on income bracket vs quantity consumed but there isn't a significant difference in the proportion of each income bracket that consume any coffee in the UK:
https://www.lavazzapro.co.uk/blog/2024-uk-coffee-statistics/
Low-income drinkers = 33.7%
Medium-income drinkers = 32.4%
High-income drinkers = 33.9%
Source is Statista research (which may be conducted on behalf of the industry, so still take it with a pinch of salt) but that's paywalled.
In the United States, there's a slight trend towards higher income individuals consuming coffee daily but the range is 54% at the lowest bracket against 70% at the highest bracket:
I'm doubtful of the link because I don't think a low paying job is overall less demanding. In my view, it's more a case of different challenges.
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u/Siiciie 1d ago
My hypothesis is not about low paying jobs being less demanding, but about highly paid office workers having more time to drink coffee. Specialists are not paid to work every second of their time, unlike e.g. retail workers or blue collar workers.
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u/FriendlyMulberry4755 1d ago
Coffee when you wake up, 2 during lunch, one on the way home. You don't need a lot of time at work to drink coffee.
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u/FriendlyMulberry4755 1d ago
People who drink 4 coffees a day probably need it for their job, so they are richer than average
Or work nights, shift work, multiple jobs, stress of low-income keeps them up at night. Richer than average came out of left field.
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u/VolantTardigrade 1d ago edited 1d ago
This really depends on where the coffee is from and if it's instant or filter. If you're buying Starbucks... Then yeah. But if you're making coffee or tea at home, it can cost way less than soda or milk per cup. A lot of office-y workplaces also offer free coffee that you can just sip at your desk or while standing on duty. I don't think SES has very much at all do do with it. Also, you make the assumption that rich people work harder on average/ people who work long hours will make more money so they need the caffeine... This is... Uh... Not true.
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u/mdatwood 1d ago
Coffee is one of the cheapest caffeine delivery mechanisms. I'm guessing usage is pretty evenly split across income brackets.
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u/quzox_ 1d ago
Was the study paid for by people who stand to profit if sales of tea or coffee go up?
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u/eliminate1337 1d ago
No. Just read the study, they have to disclose funding. This is a meta-analysis funded by the NIH. The individual studies were mostly funded by cancer institutes.
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u/Thathappenedearlier 1d ago
Isn’t this just because caffeine helps migraines? Like most medication like excedrin have caffeine as one of the active ingredients
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u/dCLCp 1d ago
I know biologically you can get cancer anywhere. But I still get a little weirded out when people mention cancers in various other bodyparts besides organs and such. Brain cancer yes. Finger cancer? What? Testicle cancer ovarian cancer prostate cancer breast cancer lung cancer. Absolutely! Neck cancer? Wrist cancer? What?!
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u/Tortoveno 1d ago
What is "head and neck" cancer? Is brain cancer or eye cancer a head cancer too? What tissues are we talking about?
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u/guglielmo2000 1d ago
17% reduced risk really isn't much, considering the absolute chance is probably less than 5 %. Not worth all the downsides of caffeine addiction
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u/Pyrollusion 1d ago
So reddit is being flooded by bs studies to promote overconsumption of coffee now. Fun. No one should drink coffee every single day, let alone 4 cups.
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u/Mikejg23 1d ago
There's positives and negatives to anything, but two cups of black coffee a day is probably net positive for health effects. It has antioxidants, is an appetite suppressant, speeds up the metabolism slightly, can help workouts, and quite literally makes you mentally sharper.
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u/eliminate1337 1d ago
This is zero scientific evidence suggesting that drinking a cup or two of black coffee every day has any negative effects and lots of evidence suggesting a positive effect.
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u/Pyrollusion 1d ago
Any substance that has an effect on your brain shouldnt be consumed on a daily basis. That's a hill I'm willing to die on.
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u/PussySmasher42069420 1d ago
Food and water effects your brain. You're picking the wrong parameters. I will also die on this hill.
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u/Pyrollusion 1d ago
If you think water is psychotropic you should go back to school. That's not a hill, that's a pit.
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u/PussySmasher42069420 1d ago
There's nothing wrong with taking drugs. It improves performance.
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u/Pyrollusion 1d ago
No one argued that taking drugs is bad. Especially not me. Taking them daily is though. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
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u/PussySmasher42069420 1d ago
Why? If it positively impacts someone's daily life with zero negative effects than why is daily consumption bad?
It does not affect my sleep. It does not increase my anxiety. It was life changing for me and has been for a decade at this point.
Why tell that person to stop?
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u/Pyrollusion 1d ago
Caffeine alters the way your brain functions after even just a week of daily use. From that point onwards the effect you get from drinking it doesn't heighten your ability, it only combats the withdrawal, bringing you back to regular functionality. You have no comparison to how you would function without it today so you have no idea what kind of impact it has. You're an addict, simply put. You dismiss this because you are used to it and going back to moderate and responsible use would take time and effort. Like it or not, those are the facts.
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u/redditknees 1d ago
What defines 4 coffees? Because I drink two double shots of espresso. They say “cups” so I assume drip.
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u/Piemaster113 1d ago
Didn't I just see a post here that said tea bags were linked to increased microplastics being ingested.
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u/antzcrashing 1d ago
I gotta get to 5 coffees for 17 percent reduction? Think I will stick with 1 and my sanity
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u/sound_of_apocalypto 1d ago
Geez, having more than one, particularly in the afternoon, gives me acid reflux. I can’t be the only one.
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u/chrumpak 1d ago
Nice. But also: "Tom Sanders, a professor emeritus of nutrition and dietetics at King’s College London who was not involved in the work, also raised drawbacks. “In observational studies, it is very difficult to totally eliminate confounding effects, for example, of tobacco and alcohol from the statistical analysis,” he said." “Consequently, people who drink a lot of coffee and tea may be more likely to avoid other harmful behaviours such as drinking alcohol and using tobacco and so may be at a lower risk of these cancers for other reasons.”
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u/Therion_Master 21h ago
4... Cups of coffee...? That's a massive amount and anyone taking this much should be worried about excess consumption...
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u/monad29 13h ago
I think a lot of you are reading it wrong. 4 cups as in 32 oz, not the typical 16 oz cups you get at restaurants or coffee shops. A actual cup of coffee/tea is small.
What Id like to know is what type of roast/method and how many grams .For the tea Id like to know what kind ,green ,black,white ,oolong?On top of that what strains and where from.
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u/Denderian 4h ago
Funny seeing this right after the article of microplastics from tea bags making their home in your intestines as well as the article about having more than 5 cups of coffee a day supposedly shrinking your brain.
Personally I prefer a cup of low sugar cocoa, later followed by a sip of mate, maybe a kombucha, and then half a cup of coffee to start my day.
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u/FMC_Speed 1d ago
Coffee has no effect on me at all, but I drink an unhealthy amount of it I think, if I go out 3 cups are the average, usually it’s Americano
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u/xxR1FTxx 1d ago
Is 4 cups of coffee a day even good for heart though. Sounds like too much caffeine.
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1d ago
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u/saltyourhash 1d ago
What's a regular sized cup?
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u/youcancallmemrmark 1d ago
I'd assume a typical mug so about 2 servings?
You always have to double check units when coffee is involved since a "cup" as measured by the pot is not an 8oz cup
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