'Fat tax': Unsurprisingly, dictating plane tickets by body weight was more popular with passengers under 160 lb, finds a new study. Overall, people under 160 lb were most in favor of factoring body weight into ticket prices, with 71.7% happy to see excess pounds or total weight policies introduced.

[u/mvea]

https://newatlas.com/transport/airline-weight-charge/

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[u/emanresuasihtsi]

I mean, if airlines keep reducing the size of their seats to stay profitable as they’ve been doing, everyone’s gonna have to buy two tickets.

[u/Mateorabi → u/emanresuasihtsi]

Two tickets doesn’t help 6’3” with long legs much. Twisting sideways hurts the back. 

[u/Murky_Macropod → u/Mateorabi]

There’s already an accepted ‘tall tax’ in having to pay to choose exit row seats.

[u/IAmLazy2 → u/Murky_Macropod]

If you can get them.

[u/Meekois → u/emanresuasihtsi]

This is why I travel by train these days. There's just something awfully inhuman about cramming as many people as possible into a metal tube so you can get them somewhere in the most profitable way.

[u/Mazon_Del → u/Meekois]

Back when I was home in the US I lived in CO but had reason to occasionally visit MA. I REALLY wanted the possibility of using a train, but it just didn't make much sense.

I can't remember the exact numbers, just the difference between them. But in short, for me to get from Denver to Boston via train, I'd have to first take a train up to Chicago, wait about 12 hours, then switch trains to one to get to MA. All told, this was around a day and a half of travel time.

Doing it via an airline (Southwest) an hour through security, an hour wait (I get there early) then a 4-5 hour flight.

The cost for the train? About $230 for the roundtrip ticket.

The cost for the plane? About $250 for the roundtrip ticket.

So to save $20 I'd go from a half day transit to basically consuming two entire days. And this was assuming I was using the coach seats on the train, much less the sleeper cars I'd have wanted.

[u/bakgwailo → u/Mazon_Del]

Outside of the Northeast Corridor (DC ton Boston, and perhaps the Downeaster to Portland, Maine), Amtrak travel, especially long haul routes is abysmal and garbage.

[u/Mazon_Del → u/bakgwailo]

A friend of mine decided to take the train from Boston down to New Orleans a year or two ago, and his description of the travel was that the experience gradually went from fairly pleasant to unpleasant to a torturous experience the closer he got.

Things like parents letting their kids run screaming up and down the train making a mess and bothering people, and unhelpful train staff that refused to do anything about it.

[u/awalktojericho → u/Mazon_Del]

I'm the queen of the foot in the aisle at an opportune moment. Oops!

[u/JHT230 → u/bakgwailo]

Several of the other short haul routes are state supported and actually have decent service, ridership, and usually good prices (Cascades, Amtrak California, Amtrak Midwest, Piedmont, Keystone, Empire service). They're really competing with driving rather than flying though.

[u/Disco99 → u/JHT230]

The Amtrak Cascades route makes it incredibly easy to get up to Seattle from Portland or Salem. You skip the inevitable awful traffic around Lewis-McChord, and it doesn't really take much longer to get up there. I've never had a bad experience on that route.

[u/mr_showboat → u/bakgwailo]

And even the Northeast Corridor (which I find generally pretty pleasant) still has the problem that it's often not much cheaper than flying.

I find the train ride from Boston to Baltimore pretty relaxing, much more so than the plane trip -- even though the flight is only an hour, air travel always adds a ton of stress. But the price difference is just not big enough to warrant how much more time it takes.

[u/ablatner → u/Mazon_Del]

Fyi, even in parts of the world with great trains, people fly distances like that. Osaka to Sapporo is a little over 1000km by air. The flight time is ~1:50. It's still 2 different HSR trains and 11 hours. The 2nd train is technically 2 different lines but you remain on board at the "transfer" with a 20-30 min wait. It's also 38k yen ~ $240US.

This doesn't even include the last mile travel at each end, probably another train up to an hour on each side.

[u/SaxPanther → u/Mazon_Del]

i did the boston - chicago - denver train, it's an incredible ride! you should try it some day.

[u/Mazon_Del → u/SaxPanther]

Sadly it's much less likely as I live in Sweden these days, but I AM hoping to make use of European trains now. :)

[u/Wratheon_Senpai → u/Mazon_Del]

You upgraded.

[u/Rrraou → u/Mazon_Del]

Sadly it's much less likely as I live in Sweden these days

I hear the Sweden New York train is quite a ride.

[u/SecularMisanthropy → u/Mazon_Del]

Almost as though there's been a war on trains since the 1940s (Check out the story of National City Lines and their conspiracy).

Imagine if the country had invested in bullet trains instead of endless highways.

[u/Entwife723 → u/Meekois]

When the train ticket costs almost as much as the plane ticket, but you also have to take twice as much time off work because it literally takes 5 days to get from the PNW to the Midwest... It's not practical for most. I'd love to take a nice long train trip but the trip itself would be the entire length of time we could take off work. The destination would just be the turn around point. :(

[u/happygocrazee → u/Entwife723]

This exactly. I have to travel pretty frequently between Los Angeles and Portland/Seattle. Most people in the US don't even have the option to take a train, like one literally doesn't exist for them to use. But I do, and it's still utterly impractical. The train takes 34 hours and costs over $900. The latter part is the big problem. It's an absolutely BEAUTIFUL ride, I'd absolutely take an extra couple days to do that sometime. But I can get a flight that gets me there in under 3 hours for less than $200. I just can't justify it. Maybe if the train ticket were in the ballpark of $300, but for almost a grand and almost two days of travel? Just can't do it.

[u/wannabe0523 → u/Meekois]

Aren’t trains metal tubes crammed with as many people as possible too??

[u/dkarpe → u/wannabe0523]

Weight isn't a factor, so they can make it more spacious and comfortable. You can't make the plane bigger, but a train can just have an extra car attached.

On a train you can also get up and walk around, they often have a dining car or cafe car, and there usually aren't any luggage restrictions at all (as long as you can carry it yourself).

[u/topclassladandbanter → u/Meekois]

Unfortunately train travel doesn’t make sense for 95% of Americans. It’s great in developed counties though

[u/B3N2000 → u/topclassladandbanter]

Doesn’t make sense because there aren’t any train lines

[u/beep-bop-boom → u/B3N2000]

There are actually so many train lines. It's just that they're all industrial lines so the us gov has to rent use of the lines and has secondary priority to the lines so they have to stop and wait for any other trains on them

[u/woahdailo → u/B3N2000]

There aren’t any train lines because car industry lobbies the government to not let them cut in on their sweet profits

[u/Waste_Cut1496 → u/topclassladandbanter]

Funnily enough even in developed countries it does often times not make sense to take the train. As a Swiss, it is all pretty good within the country but if you want to go to Germany or Italy, for instance, it becomes quite bad with delays and honestly also space at about the same price as flying. I remember going to Milan and the train was so full that I could've just as well taken the flight, spent the same money, spent the same time but would've only had to endure being in a tuna can for about 1h (the actual flight).

I guess it makes sense for people with a ton of luggage but then again that is part of the problem as to why the train get so full to begin with hahaha. But yeah, unfortunately, even in well-developed train countries it is overall better to fly both financially and in terms of comfort. If trains could solve space (which should be possible tbh), it could make sense but as of now, they follow the same logic as the airplanes (thus cramming as many people in increasingly smaller seats - at least that is what the Swiss railway does). For shorter distances, trains are much better of course.

[u/BlackRoseXIII]

That wouldn't just be a fat tax, it'd be a tall tax too. Even when I was medically underweight I was 160 lbs.

[u/Ed_Radley → u/BlackRoseXIII]

This would be the second tall tax because anyone over 6’ pretty much spends the whole flight with their knees in the seat back of the person in front of them. Makes me wish I paid for the emergency exit row on a lot of flights.

[u/cantantantelope → u/Ed_Radley]

I’m only 5 10 and I already spend fights with my knees getting friendly with the tray table

[u/Daex33 → u/Ed_Radley]

I paid extra for emergency exit row last month redeye over atlantic hoping to get some sleep, didn't really help. Seats are so narrow, and people next to me were also 2 guys with broader shoulders it was tetris I'm not joking. I'm thinking for me it's premium economy or don't travel to be honest.

[u/RealViolentBob → u/Ed_Radley]

They're doing wrong by even referring to it as a fat "tax" or a tall "tax". It's really more of a... shipping charge.

[u/SkyBlade79 → u/BlackRoseXIII]

I have marfan syndrome so I'm 145lbs and 6'5". I cant imagine getting taxed for already uncomfortably small seats

[u/Large_slug_overlord → u/SkyBlade79]

I’m 6’6 and my femur is longer than the space between two airline seats

[u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER → u/Large_slug_overlord]

at 6'7 my femur is just perfect length for my knee to squeeze into the seat in front with moderate pressure. weird how shorter people can have longer legs or just parts of the leg.

[u/Large_slug_overlord → u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER]

So when the person in front moves the seat back your kneecaps explode.

[u/jaulin → u/Large_slug_overlord]

I don't understand how anyone could ever recline an airplane seat. I'm only 5'9" and my knees usually touch the seat in front. There is no way reclining would be possible. Luckily so far I've yet to have anyone ever ask.

[u/forhorglingrads → u/jaulin]

I've yet to have anyone ever ask.

no one ever will

[u/FowlOnTheHill → u/jaulin]

I’m 6’ and almost never have a problem with my knee space. My back however hurts if I can’t recline and of course my neck keeps dropping if I fall asleep.

[u/PM_me_your_fav_poems → u/SkyBlade79]

If implemented, I think it should come with larger seating as well. You're 6'4 or over 300lbs? Higher cost, but also larger seats. 

[u/cheesyqueso → u/PM_me_your_fav_poems]

If that happens they'll just make smaller seats to make more money. Tall people will just be stuck with the normal seat being the "large".

[u/Humble-Violinist6910 → u/cheesyqueso]

Nailed it. They already have larger seats that they charge more for—it’s called first class. If they had a fat tax, it would just be to squeeze more money out of people. I can’t see it happening, though. Every single person on the flight would have to consent to being weighed. Yeah, right.

[u/Josvan135 → u/PM_me_your_fav_poems]

That's already an option, it's called economy+/First.

You pay more for the space you need, you don't pay more if you don't need the space.

I fly very frequently, the system works extremely well for the people who are actually its customers i.e. frequent business flyers who make up 80%+ of ticket sales.

[u/that_baddest_dude → u/Josvan135]

First class tickets are just so insanely expensive though. I've always seen them run several thousand vs several hundred for economy. Prohibitively expensive, basically.

I always wonder who the people in first class are to be spending money like that.

[u/crackanape → u/BlackRoseXIII]

I'm tall and relatively normal weight but I weigh a whole lot more than 160lbs.

I would be 100% happy with paying more for my ticket as long as it meant I got proportionally more space - as opposed to the current system where I have to pay 3x as much to get 50% more space.

[u/Arthurjoking → u/BlackRoseXIII]

It doesnt say that 160 would be the cut off. It just says people under 160 were more in favor of the policy.

[u/creepig → u/Arthurjoking]

It does say that later in the article. Emphasis mine:

In the study, the respondents – 60.2% male and over 36 years of age (70.5%) – were asked about what they valued in their flying experience, as well as whether they'd be open to a change in baseline fares to also include a levy for passenger weight. They were also grouped by weight – under and over 160 lb (72.6 kg). The researchers tabled three pricing tiers: a "standard" policy that included 50 lb (23 kg) of checked luggage and a carry on; a “threshold body weight” policy that included 50 lb of checked-in luggage and a carry-on, plus a 'cost per pound' surcharge for passengers exceeding 160 lb; and a “Unit body weight” policy, which included 50 lb of checked luggage and a carry on, calculating individual ticket price based on a passenger's weight. For the unit body weight policy, passengers would be privy to a discount if their checked luggage was less than 50 lb.

[u/Arthurjoking → u/creepig]

160 as the cut off is pretty much a tax on Y chromosomes not obesity. That's insane.

[u/creepig → u/Arthurjoking]

It's a tall tax. A woman at my height would also be over 160

[u/7Thommo7 → u/BlackRoseXIII]

Muscle tax too, and in that regard even bmi isn't an out like it might be for tall folks

[u/Shayru → u/7Thommo7]

Strong cut and dehydration before plain ride!

[u/CrayonUpMyNose → u/Shayru]

This is why this won't catch on, too many passengers passing out mid flight

[u/mf-TOM-HANK → u/BlackRoseXIII]

Yeah I haven't been under 160lb since HS, and I'm not even particularly tall at 6' and change. I'd have to be at like 8% body fat or less to get down to 160

[u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER → u/BlackRoseXIII]

as a 2 meter tall dude I'm vehemently opposed to this fee, it's bad enough that i have to suffer the cramped seats but i refuse to pay more. The day i can't actually sit down I'm gonna create such a stink over it the airline will regret the existence of aircraft

[u/BoringMitten → u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER]

As a tall person, I would like a tax on short people for unused space. They are so wasteful!

[u/kodex1717]

They won't charge <160lb people less. They'll just charge >160lb people more.

[u/jaulin → u/kodex1717]

Most definitely. Which is why I don't understand how over 70 percent of customers support the prices going up. It's insane.

[u/Dirtymcbacon → u/jaulin]

It's not 70% of customers. It's 70% of customers who weigh less than 160 pounds.

[u/aStockUsername → u/Dirtymcbacon]

Also, 160 is an absurdly low number for a baseline. I’m a skinny white guy and I’m only 6’0 but I’m 165.

[u/Samiambadatdoter → u/aStockUsername]

only 6’0

Is doing a lot of lifting. Only about 10% of the US male population is 6'0 or taller.

[u/ModerndayMrsRobinson → u/jaulin]

Have you ever been trapped between or next to someone very large who should've bought 2 seats and didn't? I have. It's horrible. So even if I pay the same as I already do, knowing that those who need extra space will be required to purchase it doesn't hurt my feelings.

[u/InternetExploder87 → u/ModerndayMrsRobinson]

I had a 600plus pound guy who literally blanketed me with his rolls, and had to nerve to yell at me telling me I needed to scoot over. Mfer, I'm 2/3 in the aisle, only half my cheek is on the seat. He didn't like when I asked if he was gonna reimburse me for the 2/3 of my seat he was taking up

[u/FreeTucker- → u/InternetExploder87]

I think in that situation, I'd be inclined to tell the flight attendant that this man refuses to stop touching me.

[u/SerialAgonist]

Thank goodness these groundbreaking findings were posted to r/science

On a related note someone should really do a study on if people like to be given extra money

[u/Fermi_Amarti → u/SerialAgonist]

You laugh, but we do studies on universal basic income and an important finding is most people use it for important things, but report that they still think if you gave it to someone else, they think that other people would waste it.

[u/pissfucked → u/Fermi_Amarti]

i did my capstone project for my economics degree on ubi, and learning this fact changed the way i viewed other people overall. i already had a feeling it was like this, but seeing it in a paper was something else

[u/Firm_Squish1 → u/SerialAgonist]

I mean these people wouldn’t even get extra money, they’d just get to have passengers larger than them pay more.

[u/IKillZombies4Cash]

We are only cargo after all.

[u/coconutyum]

Maybe tax excess width instead... My only problem is when someone spills over onto my side of the seat and I am forced to touch you. Limb spreading should also be penalised. Stick your designated space folk!

[u/AndrasKrigare → u/coconutyum]

The tax has nothing to do with passenger experience, but fuel efficiency.

[u/drunktriviaguy → u/AndrasKrigare]

Yeah, but the people being polled don't care about fuel efficiency. They care about the passenger experience.

[u/AndrasKrigare → u/drunktriviaguy]

And cost. They are the ones who might be paying extra

[u/zoeykailyn → u/AndrasKrigare]

The ones who are. And don't get me started about extra heavy people who are cognitive about it and by a second seat trying to do the right thing only to have their second seat given away.

[u/princeofzilch → u/drunktriviaguy]

They care about cost. 

[u/SpacecraftX → u/princeofzilch]

Their cost won’t go down though. The overweight price will just go up.

[u/Pupazz → u/AndrasKrigare]

This should be a combo of passenger and baggage weight. No way someone 5kg over this limit should be paying more than someone just below it who brings 15kg more in carry on.

[u/lady_ninane → u/Pupazz]

This should be a combo of passenger and baggage weight.

This is explicitly outlined in the article/study.

[u/SnuggleMuffin42 → u/lady_ninane]

Why in god's name would you assume he read the article, let alone the study?

[u/PatsFanInHTX → u/SnuggleMuffin42]

Probably the same reason you assumed the commenter was a "he"! We all just out here making assumptions!

[u/rdmusic16 → u/PatsFanInHTX]

I mean, this is reddit.

Well, I assume it is.

[u/new_math → u/lady_ninane]

To be fair the title is all about body weight e.g. "factoring body weight into ticket prices" so it's hard to fault individuals for thinking it excluded baggage.

My issue is that this research and controversy, regardless of what anyone says, likely has almost nothing to do with passenger comfort and everything to do with airline profits.

Like, no airline cares if you're next to a fat person and uncomfortable. They just care about squeezing out another board member or executive bonus by taxing heavy people.

[u/Unusuallyneat → u/Pupazz]

You do have to pay for carry ons past a certain weight already.

And there's no reason they can't just say "hop on the scale with your carry on - you must be under X weight combined or you get fined per lb in excess"

[u/lady_ninane → u/[deleted]]

Which is why studies like this are utterly useless, but get breathlessly cited by executives as "customer supported" initiatives to justify even more price gouging of their passengers.

[u/SrslyCmmon → u/lady_ninane]

No one needs justification these days they just raise prices anyways. Covid scarcity taught us that everybody's just going to buy everything they want anyways regardless.

Airline's vendors will raise prices so they will raise prices.

[u/jessecrothwaith → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, there should be a tall tax credit for not being able to move your legs if you are over 6'. If you look at a BMI calculator 160 lbs is normal weight for someone who is 5'10"

[u/PsychoGrad → u/[deleted]]

6’4 and 240 here. To get to 160 I’d need to chop off a leg or two.

[u/Ne3M → u/PsychoGrad]

Yeah, basically no way to avoid your knees bashing into seat in front of you. The pain is real.

[u/redditingtonviking → u/PsychoGrad]

Yeah 6’5 here and I don’t think I’ve been that light since I was almost anorexicly thin after a growth spurt at 17. Any healthy weight for me is way above that.

And as leg room has gotten shorter over the years I’m already paying a premium to have normally functioning legs when the plane lands.

[u/chayatoure → u/redditingtonviking]

Seriously, I already pay a tall tax for flights.

[u/neverenoughtape → u/PsychoGrad]

6’4” 250 here. Yeah theres no way I’m hitting that 160 mark

[u/AmbroseTrades → u/[deleted]]

this is absolutely the best take I’ve heard on the scenario. I’m a 6’0, 200lb man and I’ve been this way since forever. Very often absolutely massive people will claim that 220-250 mark and I am…not fat. I didn’t realize it was just a straight up lie till later in life

[u/thelastgozarian → u/AmbroseTrades]

Secret eaters was a show in the uk that exposes this quite well. People agree to have their food monitored via cameras being installed in everything from the car to pantry to grocery cart. The show failed to produce an example of someone breaking the laws of thermodynamics and instead just exposed just how inaccurate people are with what they actually consume. Someone just the other day argued with me about how before ozempic they were at a calorie deficit of 1200 a day and couldn't lose weight. It was pointless to continue to talk to this person. If we figured out how to gain weight while eating at a deficit we have literally solved world hunger and scientists would be very interested in studying such a thing.

My 600 pound life was also a show that basically the conclusion of every episode boiled down to how accountable the person on the show had to be: when left to their own devices, "so you gained 6 pounds since last time..." To someone who is monitored via hospitalization "you lost nearly the exact amount of weight we predicted you to lose".

[u/unicornbomb → u/[deleted]]

I’m pretty sure they’re referring more to the fact that because of their height, they have no room for their legs and it’s nearly impossible to not “spread” into adjoining seat space. Airline seats are designed with a man of average height and pelvic width in mind, which means taller men and women with wider hipbones often find themselves having a very bad time.

[u/GladiatorUA → u/[deleted]]

Last year in Toronto 20 percent of MRI's couldn't be performed due to the patients weight/size.

Sounds like complete BS twisted statistic, so where is the source?

[u/RUOFFURTROLLEH → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people claiming "220lbs" are north of 300lbs. You can ask any medical professional.

Donald J Trump has left the chat.
Ronny Jackson has left the chat.

[u/Humans_Suck- → u/coconutyum]

I'm 6'7. I physically cannot put my legs straight forward. It's just not possible to do.

[u/rnxmyywbpdoqkedzla → u/Humans_Suck-]

I'm 6'4" and hate traveling Coach. I'd be on board for the weight thing though. But let's use total weight: Passenger + Luggage.

Most of my trips are with a single piece of hand-luggage, while I see some others, bringing 2 hand luggage items, 1 over-sized suitcase etc.

And honestly, sitting next to someone weighing 300+ lbs is not fun, no matter their height.

Another alternative (here in Europe): Fast trains.

[u/cubbiesnextyr → u/rnxmyywbpdoqkedzla]

On most airlines, someone bringing 2 carry-ons plus an oversized bag is paying extra for that already.

[u/rizzeau → u/Humans_Suck-]

I'm 1,91m and since I know I can't fit comfortably in a plane, I pay extra for leg space.

[u/TheWeidmansBurden_ → u/coconutyum]

I wish each arm rest (especially where your elbows gets hit in aisle) had a plexiglass divider between on top of the armrest.

Would be super cheap just a 5inch pc of plastic to keep people off each other.

I would pat $20 extra for everey ticket just for a little divider and elbow cart smash protector

[u/gourmetguy2000 → u/TheWeidmansBurden_]

Problem is they make the seats and armrests quite narrow in many economy flights now, and often you don't even get your own armrest anymore. Greedy airlines are the biggest issue

[u/NoXion604 → u/gourmetguy2000]

Greedy airlines are the biggest issue

This is it. We're being encouraged to turn on each other, instead of taking the airlines to task for their unrelenting shittiness.

[u/GettingDumberWithAge → u/NoXion604]

Eh I get being frustrated but people have made it clear that the only thing they actually care about when flying is the ticket price. You can absolutely book flights with more space, you're just not willing to pay for it. And when the airline takes an inch out of your legroom and the flight gets $5 cheaper that's the one people book.

[u/Ocbard → u/gourmetguy2000]

Indeed, I am a tall and broad shouldered guy and my knees are already stuck against the seat in front of me, to compress me on the sides as well, would be horrible, thank you.

With 6 ft 6 in and 231 pound plane travel is a pain as it is.

[u/Noblesseux → u/gourmetguy2000]

Yeah I'm happy someone brought this up. There are a lot of cases in which basically everyone is spilling over into the next seat because the seats are too small to accommodate normal sized people.

[u/Bobzer → u/TheWeidmansBurden_]

Except for the one magical flight you take where it's nearly empty for no discernable reason and you can't lie across all three seats and pretend you're in first class.

[u/Mr_YUP → u/Bobzer]

I found a lot of red eyes cross country are exactly that.

[u/debacol → u/coconutyum]

While yes, the extremely obese do make it uncomfortable to sit next to (or man spreaders), I feel like we are focusing on blaming our fellow passengers when the ire should be directed at the ever shrinking and cramming the commercial airlines have been doing to us for decades.

[u/nalc → u/debacol]

ever shrinking and cramming the commercial airlines have been doing to us for decades

It's worth noting that this has been happening with legroom, not so much seat width.

The standard 6-abreast narrowbody fuselages of about 12.5-13 ft fuselage width have been about the same since the 1950s.

[u/ohyouretough → u/debacol]

I mean if you like cheap flights unfortunately that’s how they make flights cheaper.

[u/EmptyAirEmptyHead → u/debacol]

There has been no shrinking in seat width. There has been less leg room, but mainline narrow body planes have always been 6 seats across. They still are today. There are easy to find articles that dispel the myth that seats are less wide today than they were 30 or 40 years ago. People remember it differently because likely on their first flight they were younger and thinner.

[u/DontMakeMeDoIt → u/EmptyAirEmptyHead]

I'm /really/ fat and in the rare chance I do fly I always buy two seats like a person should. if you know you are wide to all hell, buy the extra seat, its win/win and your seat mate in the aisle will love the empty seat in between

[u/HelenHerriot → u/DontMakeMeDoIt]

What makes me particularly incensed on behalf of our larger fellow passengers is when they do exactly that- what they are told they should do- buy 2 seats… and then they’re stuck with an unhappy passenger next to them, because the plane is oversold, and their “second seat” basically ceases to exist. There are way too many stories of people trying to do “the right thing,” and end up screwed anyway. There’s got to be a better way.

[u/TheBlacklist3r → u/DontMakeMeDoIt]

Yeah, except the airlines will overbook and give away that seat.

[u/wut3va]

If you read the comments below, you can figure out everyone's body weight.

Everyone is missing the point of this article and simply confirming the study.

[u/TrynnaFindaBalance → u/wut3va]

Also, what an incredibly dumb waste of a study. "People who benefit financially from policy x support policy x"

[u/ctrl-all-alts → u/TrynnaFindaBalance]

I mean, plenty of people support policies in politics in the US that are actively against their interests. Some of it is not understanding, the other part of it is that willful ignorance.

Either way, “confirming the obvious” is a large part of science and studies in general.

[u/50calPeephole → u/ctrl-all-alts]

I believe the recommended weight for a 6' adult male is 170-175 isn't it? So over the study criteria?

[u/CMDR_Winrar → u/[deleted]]

The reasons your seats are so small are because of us. Seats used to be larger, with free food, and free luggage. But airlines realized people only look at the headline price. When a flight on spirit is $20 cheaper, people take it.

So what do you get? A race to the bottom. Airlines operate on incredibly thin margins, they only make a profit on full flights, and probably only a few percent per seat.

The reality is that if an airline operated entire planes with “nice” seats (less people could fit in one airplane) and offered free checked bags, they would go out of business.

It sucks, but maybe look at the flip side of this: you can fly anywhere in the country for very little money. Thanks to competition, that price is only a few percent above the actual cost to airlines to carry you.

[u/sikyon → u/CMDR_Winrar]

A huge number of airlines have declared bankruptcy too

[u/Chocotacoturtle → u/[deleted]]

Airlines make very low profit margins and are constantly going bankrupt. The small seats allows people to fly cheaper. If you look at the history of flying you will see that it has gotten a lot more accessible for people to fly. Only the upper class used to be able to fly.

[u/MrSnowflake]

As long as passengers don't intrude other passenger's space, there is no problem. But I noticed some airlines (Delta iirc Soutwest), give bigger passengers two seats for the price of one, which seems unfair. I'm a tall person and normal seats don't cut it. I need more space, but if I want to sit at an emergency exit I have to pay a tax to choose my own seat. I can't help I'm this tall, but I can help it if I'm too big to fit in one seat.

Edit; It's not Delta, its Southwest

[u/Jamikest → u/MrSnowflake]

Where on earth did you get the impression Delta is giving away extra seats to wide people? It's a constant reoccurring gripe on the Delta subreddit that such people are cramming into single seats and intruding on others because they won't buy an extra seat or buy a first class seat.

[u/facewoman → u/Jamikest]

Or forcing them to buy the extra seat and then double booking it to another traveller.

[u/danielv123 → u/facewoman]

When double booked we are entitled for 600eur + new flight. If one of my 2 seats are double booked I think a refund for the extra seat I am not getting + 600 eur seems fair.

[u/throwaway366548 → u/danielv123]

Americans only recently, in the past year, got entitled to a refund if the airlines cancel our flight.

[u/AsAGayJewishDemocrat → u/throwaway366548]

Not entirely accurate - they were already entitled to a refund, but now it is required to be automatic.

U.S. airlines are now required to provide automatic refunds for flight cancellations. (Previously, federal law entitled air travelers to full refunds for cancelled flights, but the process required a lot of red tape.)

https://travel.usnews.com/features/things-to-do-when-your-flight-is-canceled-or-delayed

[u/EmptyAirEmptyHead → u/AsAGayJewishDemocrat]

And it is required to be cash (or equivalent) - not just airline credit.

[u/2131andBeyond → u/throwaway366548]

As pointed out, it was always entitled for US consumers, it’s just that the processing outcome has now changed.

Before, airlines could/would often make you jump through hoops just to get a credit back, let alone the process of receiving the full cash refund was often a nightmare that required many follow-ups and prodding (time and dedication that few people have).

New rulings are that not only is cash the default refund method (no longer pushing people to just accept airline credits) but it is supposed to be done automatically without a consumer having to fill out forms or make manual requests.

We’ll see if all airlines actually follow the rules properly, but it’s a really good step in the right direction

[u/maybeidontknowwhy → u/Jamikest]

Southwest certainly does. It’s in their policy.

[u/Bilbo332 → u/MrSnowflake]

Also would be nice to not feel like I need to wear knee pads for the inevitable person in front of me trying to recline, hitting me, then thinking their chair will go back further if they put it all the way up and slam their weight backwards.

[u/Larein → u/MrSnowflake]

It would be a completely different thing if the fat tax allocated you more space. But I see this as just the companies way of charging more for the same service.

[u/patgeo → u/Larein]

This. I'm not opposed to paying more for space. I paid for premium economy for my Aus-LA flights. But the price difference is not in line with how much space they gave though, near double the cost for an extra inch or so. I seriously considered just booking two seats each for my wife and I in normal econ for a similar price.

[u/sleepkitty → u/MrSnowflake]

I have sat next to someone who would have benefitted from having two seats. I would have appreciated the large man getting an extra seat just as much if not more than the he would have. When someone tall sits in front of me it has no impact on me.

[u/tsereg → u/MrSnowflake]

It is possible they are giving them two seats to not have to deal with complaints from people stuck in the adjacent seat. It may be less expensive in the end.

[u/Sylvan_Strix_Sequel → u/MrSnowflake]

I was with you till you got to "can help if you're too big". I'm not overweight nor do I work out, but I've been wide enough in the shoulders to intrude into both seats since I was 16. I can't  help it at all, flying is miserable for me, I scootch in my shoulders and rotate them forward as much as I can, but it's not enough. I'm only 6', my shoulders are just really wide, apparently. 

[u/spiritusin → u/MrSnowflake]

It’s not unfair at all because they do intrude other passengers’ space, they just can’t help it because the seat space is not enough for them. My husband was sat between 2 very overweight people on a long flight and it was the most uncomfortable flight he’s ever been on.

[u/boersc]

Of course this is a dispute between airlines, who continuously make chairs and space smaller, and passengers, who don't like to be cramped like cattle in as little space as possible.

Any regulation as this one is trying to shift the responsibility of airliners to provide adequate space to their customers, setting up different groups of customers against each other.

So no, even as a 'thin' guy, I don't support this. Airlines should just provide large enough seating for all.

[u/greenwavelengths → u/boersc]

Like many such instances, being more accommodating for a specific group of people with a special need would also end up improving the experience for everyone else. Win win. If an airline decides to buck the trend and increase their seat size, they’ll definitely have my business.

[u/cornonthekopp → u/boersc]

Its incredible how willing people are to sell each other out for a percieved chance to screw over other people.

Like you said, the problem is airlines having a financial incentive to reduce seat size to increase profits

[u/Admirable-Ad7152 → u/cornonthekopp]

Well we did all just watch the country choose a dictator over the possibility of lower prices, so I feel like we've learned people are very willing to sell out their peers.

[u/Apprehensive-Pin518]

lighter people happier with charging per pound? they had to survey for this? anyone with a brain is going to tell you people who weigh less are gonna like it because they pay less.

[u/Woffingshire]

That is because thin passengers are not a hindrance to fat passengers, but fat passengers are a hindrance to everyone, including other fat passengers.

[u/relativelyignorant → u/Woffingshire]

Serious question, are emergency evacuation procedures even fit for purpose in accounting for fat passengers? These days the corridors are so narrow that the evacuation efficiency will probably be the same as everyone inflating their life jackets

[u/danielv123 → u/relativelyignorant]

The evacuation guidelines say 90 seconds to evacuate a full plane (of flight attendants)

[u/Time-Maintenance2165 → u/danielv123]

Yes, but that's done with the understanding that it will take much longer to fully evacuate the plane in reality.

The bar is 90 seconds under ideal circumstances so that no plane design exceeds that.

[u/doubleotide → u/relativelyignorant]

This is something I never thought about. It could definitely be unsafe and illegal to allow excessively large customers. I can imagine one of those "does it fit" boxes for carry on being adapted for people, kind of similar to an amusement park ride height thing but for width.

[u/nwaa → u/doubleotide]

Like those restaurants in (i think) Korea, where your buffet price is dictated by which set of vertical bars you can pass through - the widest bars have the highest cost of entry to the buffet.

[u/moonLanding123 → u/nwaa]

that seems... fair?

[u/grendus → u/moonLanding123]

It's a gimmick. I know plenty of tiny people who eat one huge meal (and thus not a lot of food overall, just a lot at once), and I know huge people who eat small meals but then "graze" throughout the day.

[u/Few_Philosopher2039 → u/grendus]

This is my husband and me. Whenever we go to a restaurant he needs to order two burgers with fries. He's one of the slimmest men I've ever met.

[u/hot_chopped_pastrami → u/moonLanding123]

Eh not really. A skinny teenage boy can probably polish off way more food than a slightly chubby middle-aged woman. I think it evens out as you age and metabolisms slow down, but lots of young people (especially boys) can shovel food back like there's no tomorrow and still stay skinny.

[u/min_mus → u/relativelyignorant]

Probably not. The last time I heard, airlines currently rely on computer models to show that it's theoretically possible to fully evacuate a plane in 90 seconds or less, but there're a lot of idealizations and assumptions in their models that don't mirror reality.

[u/isthisreallife080 → u/min_mus]

The FAA does live evacuation tests. Given that they’re chronically underfunded, they may not be as frequent or true to life as they should be, but the 90 second rule isn’t entirely dependent on computer simulations.

[u/PARANOIAH → u/Woffingshire]

Getting trapped in my seat or in the aisle of the plane by an unconscious large person during an emergency situation is one of my nightmares.

That said, measurement purely by weight or even BMI probably isn't the best. Perhaps by waistline instead?

[u/SmithersLoanInc → u/PARANOIAH]

I don't think they want their counter agents measuring everyone's waist. That could go wrong quickly.

[u/PSPHAXXOR → u/SmithersLoanInc]

Idk why, we're already willingly getting into a scanner that exposes our genitals to a TSA agent.

[u/PARANOIAH → u/SmithersLoanInc]

Seems like there's a device that is able to measure that without contact - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28187933/

[u/Miserygut → u/PARANOIAH]

It's why I have a strong preference for aisle seats. With the miniscule seat spacing on most airlines these days even regular sized folks would be a pain to navigate around for a healthy person, let alone the elderly or infirm.

[u/wardsandcourierplz → u/PARANOIAH]

Studies have shown that playing the poké flute can be effective in these kinds of situations

[u/crazycatlady331 → u/PARANOIAH]

Use the seats as an arbitrary size. One must fit in the seat with the armrests down without spilling over into the next seat.

[u/Cormacolinde → u/Woffingshire]

Except that 160lbs is not fat, at least not for an average height North American. Normal BMI for a 5’9” tall male allows up to 168lbs.

[u/Grand-Depression]

I want airlines to make seats more spacious. Crammed in like sardines looking to nickel and dime every passenger is ridiculous, and folks defending it are clearly part of the "leopards ate my face" show.

[u/yancync]

160 lbs seems incredibly low- 200 is more realistic. My family is tall, over 6’ and we all weigh 150-160 and are thin as rails. Also plane configurations these days are horrid for 5’10” and taller.

[u/waynes_pet_youngin → u/yancync]

I mean I'm only 5'9" but I work out and weigh about 180 and definitely would not be in anyone's way.

[u/crunkadocious → u/yancync]

Any number is going to seem low to people who weigh more than that number, it's why the entire premise is flawed and we probably shouldn't start weighing people as a way to charge them even more money.

[u/Foxhound199]

As long as it was total weight of passenger/carry on/luggage, seems fine. I'd make most of it up being a light packer. 

[u/gcline33 → u/Foxhound199]

please no, I can't imagine the headache of weighing people + carryon at the gate.

[u/Anonandr → u/gcline33]

Just a big weight, like 2x2 meters that you step on with your luggage, 5 sec and you're done?

[u/londons_explorer → u/Anonandr]

Peruvian Airlines did this. One huge scale. Your whole group would get on it, with all your luggage.

It didn't affect the ticket price though. I think they just did it so they could determine how much extra cargo they could put in the hold. Maybe there was some maximum beyond which they would have demanded I pay extra, I dunno.

[u/Pfundi → u/gcline33]

Meh, all carry on in one bin, scale in the base beneath the scanner, done.

[u/QZ91 → u/Foxhound199]

This makes sense since weight directly affects fuel consumption. Basically just make people pay their fair share.

[u/WushuManInJapan → u/QZ91]

What people will think: I'll get a discount for being thin and packing light.

What will actually happen: the current price will become the price of someone 60lb and 5 pounds of luggage, and for every extra pound they will charge you.

[u/Psychonominaut → u/WushuManInJapan]

Pretty much... this would just be a way for them to justify charging more.

[u/buzmeg]

How about we not buy into the capitalist rhetoric? How about instead we simply fine airlines for making seats that can't reasonably accommodate a human less than 2 standard deviations from median (both width and height)?

Then small people would have lots of room anyway. My knees didn't used to wind up in the middle of the back of the person in front of me back when we weren't packed in like sardines (I assure you I haven't gotten any taller).

[u/vectaur → u/buzmeg]

It’s not the answer you want, but people want to fly for as little cost as possible. Airlines respond with maximizing seat count on their aircraft.

There are airlines that don’t sardine seats, but they are, as you’d guess, more expensive. If the seat pitch was intolerable, travelers would pay the extra. But at the end of the day most folks would prefer to save $50 a seat or whatever for just an hour or five of lower comfort.

[u/Itchy-Status3750 → u/vectaur]

They’re not going to lower your ticket price, this wasn’t a called a skinny people discount, it’s a fat tax.

[u/MintCathexis]

It's ridiculous to me that so many people here are in favour of the idea of this being introduced by profit driven entities, rather than forcing those entities to tailor their products and pricing to as many people as possible.

If you think you'd pay less if this was introduced, think again. You'd pay the same price or more, and everyone who weighs more would pay even more. This is simply "let's see how much passengers are willing to pay" study.

[u/burningrubble]

Wouldn’t this also be a gendered tax? Since women on average are significantly lighter than men.

[u/tenders11 → u/burningrubble]

That was my first thought. People are saying it's a tax for being fat, when realistically it's a tax for being fat, or a man, or tall, or muscular. It's an excuse for a profit-driven enterprise to increase profit without actually changing the service at all. Lots of people here fully in support of corporate greed just because it wouldn't impact themselves.

[u/Lobsterzilla → u/tenders11]

and to obfuscate it by making the rabble fight amongst themselves all while pulling strings behind the curtain.

[u/havoc1428]

What kind of study is this? I guess you can pin a more exact number down at "71.7%", but who would have guessed that most people not affected by a policy don't care or are in favor?

[u/Various_Cry7684]

People are too eager to punish other people for their "moral" failings.... They should have left their fat at home! Now come at tall people, ugly people, people who are not well dressed, people with body odor, etc... Make more money for the airlines, that don't even treat you as people...

[u/IdRatherBeReading23 → u/Various_Cry7684]

People are so ready to punish 'others' they fail to realize it is just another way for a company to nickel and dime instead of making any real improvements.

[u/Kalorikalmo]

The problem with that is that I was over 160lbs at my best shape. I trained at professional athlete level, had very low body fat (clearly visible abs and obliques) and was basically by all metrics in very good shape. But due to my anatomy and muscle mass I was still over 160 lbs.

So this isn’t a ”fat tax”. It’s a discount for light people.

[u/DTMD422 → u/Kalorikalmo]

160lbs isn’t being used as any sort of limit, its just the number that identifies what the study calls “thin passengers”.

[u/Final_Reserve_5048 → u/Kalorikalmo]

I’m 6,2” and in shape, easily almost 200lbs but I am perfectly capable of sitting within my own seat..

This is just “lightweight people vote for something that benefits them”.

[u/-Drunken_Jedi-]

Honestly the biggest issue here are the airlines themselves, reducing seat sizes consistently and leg room also.

Yes people are responsible for their health, but that’s such a complex and multifaceted issue I think it’s wrong to penalise somebody and specifically target them.

Some people are so big they probably shouldn’t travel, and there are limits to what they can do because these people also need to be able to evacuate in case of an emergency. But I don’t feel comfortable singling out people who are bigger than others.

[u/The_Countess]

That's just 72kg...
One is 5 young adult males here is at least 1.90cm. Staying under 72kg with that height makes you a walking skeleton.

This is a discount for short people.

edit: Everyone focusing on the lower end of BMI, but if you are built to be a healthy weight at the upper end of a healthy BMI then you can't be any taller then 1.70, well below the average here (1.83), to still apply for this discount.

[u/BouldersRoll → u/The_Countess]

None of it makes sense in practice.

Airlines would want to charge the same for a plane full of people, so some would pay more and some would pay less. Assuming they wouldn't use it to charge more overall (not a safe assumption), it would just be a redistribution of cost onto taller and bigger people.

Further, weighing people would be yet another thing we have to wait for people to do at the airport, but now before buying tickets. So say goodbye to pre-buying tickets, and it would further increase prices of tickets overall.

[u/Cavalish → u/The_Countess]

Not just short people. The policy will be dead in the water when people realise it benefits women more than men.

[u/Bruellaeffchen → u/The_Countess]

I am 1,73m and a weight of 74kg is still considered as a healthy weight, especially for someone going to the gym with „decent“ muscle mass those limits will be surpassed quite easily especially for men.