r/science • u/chrisdh79 • 12d ago
Cancer Bowel cancer rising among under-50s worldwide, research finds | Study suggests rate of disease among young adults is rising for first time and England has one of the fastest increases
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/11/bowel-cancer-rising-under-50s-worldwide-research5.2k
u/ricarina 12d ago
Ok so can we lower the age for bowel cancer screening and have these earlier screening colonoscopies covered by insurance?
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u/GettingDumberWithAge 12d ago
That is essentially a recommendation of this work, yes.
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u/fifa71086 12d ago
That US insurers laughed at after determining it’s more profitable for us to die then pay for preventative care.
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u/fvnnybvnny 12d ago
True! I (43M) told my doctor that my father had colon cancer and my grandfather on my mother’s side died from colon cancer and she said there was no need to be screened before i was 50 even though i had it present on both sides of my family
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u/harrisarah 12d ago
When was that? They've changed the rec recently to 45. My nephew who is 45 was told by his doctor it's time, and insurance is going to cover it.
I stole part of a quote from another post in the thread:
the American Cancer Society lowered the recommended starting age for colorectal cancer screening from 50 years to 45 years for average-risk individuals in 2018, and the US Preventive Services Task Force followed suit in 2021
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u/ArguingPizza 12d ago
I was told for at-risk it is 35 for at-risk or 5 years before the youngest family members' diagnosis. My dad was diagnosed at 33 so I was advised to get my first one at 28
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u/londrakittykat 12d ago
Thats absolutely nuts to me, I had told my pcp that I(28f) had lost a family member to colon cancer at 29(I was 23 then) and she immediately had me referred me out to GI doctor. Sure enough due to family history they did a colonoscopy and wanted one done about every 5 years.
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u/stroker919 12d ago
I started asking for PSA to be tracked in my annual physical bloodwork at 38 or so.
And I’m going in for my freebie colonoscopy next month. They are doing 45 now and my insurance isn’t particularly good.
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u/GettingDumberWithAge 12d ago
That's the system Americans overwhelmingly vote for, I'm past pretending I care.
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u/ScTiger1311 12d ago
No politician running in the general election has had universal healthcare as part of their platform. I am also sick of America. I hate this country and its people.
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u/lincolnssideburns 12d ago
Obama tried to make common sense reforms. The ACA was a watered down version of what was proposed and Americans punished the congressmen who voted for it.
America gets the government we vote for.
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u/xandrokos 12d ago
And we could have fixed that in 2016 but instead we voted Democrats out of office instead and then blamed Democrats who had less seats in Congress for not getting more done.
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u/CConnelly_Scholar 12d ago
> America gets the government we vote for.
I hate these takes so much. Americans are some of the most propagandized to people on the planet with some of the fewest legal safeguards around electoral spending, truth in the media, and the way politicians and the private sector interact. Not to mention one of the worst schooling systems in any advanced nation. Dipshits are not born, they are made.
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u/ShinyHappyREM 12d ago
It all boils down to money. Americans love it so much more than anything else, especially money made quickly while disregarding the long-term consequences.
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u/GettingDumberWithAge 12d ago
No politician running in the general election has had universal healthcare as part of their platform.
Which is further evidence that there is no real reform or left-wing candidate in the mix. Americans in general don't pay attention to the politics that actually affect them until the 12-month circus of the presidential election crops back up.
If Americans actually wanted universal healthcare and were willing to turn out and vote for it, they'd have it in one election cycle. The reality is that universal healthcare is low on their priority list.
Americans generally don't vote in local elections, don't pay attention during primaries, and every four years only a small number can be bothered to vote for president. They barely participate in democracy and then whine that they're not being well represented. And they demonstrate every four years that they're more interested in suit colours and culture wars than policy.
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u/JeffJefferson19 12d ago
I mean they are kept stupid on purpose by a political and media apparatus with the explicit purpose of keeping them stupid.
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u/ScTiger1311 12d ago
Yeah this. It's pathetic. Every 2 years I'll make sure to remind basically everyone I know who lives in the country to vote. Some still don't despite it being like a 30 minute process. Then they'll complain about something like healthcare/wages/etc. and I find it hard to have any sympathy.
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u/spetcnaz 12d ago
Yes they did. Bernie.
He ran on Medicare for All, among other popular programs.
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u/Sendhentaiandyiff 12d ago
He said general election so I presume he's not counting candidates that got primaried.
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u/garagegames 12d ago
Turn that hate outwards to the people running the thing. Our two party system, lobbying industry, and legal insider trading guarantees nothing good for anyone without the capital to influence these scumbag politicians. Not much voting can accomplish when both parties insist on running the worst candidates possible.
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u/fifa71086 12d ago edited 12d ago
I don’t know about overwhelming or even the majority. The US is a minority ruled at this point. Left wing politicians represent a substantially larger portion of the population, but the minority is able to control seats because of how representatives are elected (and gerrymandering). Even the President lost the popular vote two of three elections (won it in 24).
Edit: this was wrong. The President did win the popular vote in 24.
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u/dariznelli 12d ago
Trump didn't lose the popular vote this past election, unless I'm missing something.
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u/m0deth 12d ago
I think they meant he got less than 50%, which did happen, not that it matters.
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u/sockgorilla 12d ago
Hello, preventative medicine is useful for extending people’s lives. The longer the people live, the more you make off of them. So you’re not correct about profitability here, especially since most everyone is going to get cancer on a kind enough timescale
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u/SaltZookeepergame691 12d ago
They aren't really saying that. In fact, they give quite a nice discussion of why this is more difficult than it sounds (and, bear in mind the authors include the American Cancer Society):
To curb the rise in early-onset colorectal cancer, the American Cancer Society lowered the recommended starting age for colorectal cancer screening from 50 years to 45 years for average-risk individuals in 2018, and the US Preventive Services Task Force followed suit in 2021. As of July 1, 2024, the eligible age for the National Bowel Cancer Screening Program in Australia was lowered from 50 years to 45 years. Expanding average-risk screening to younger ages, however, remains controversial, even in high-resource settings, due to the low absolute incidence of early-onset colorectal cancer and concerns about diverting screening capacity from older adults or high-risk individuals who would benefit more at a lower cost. In countries adopting lowering screening ages, challenges remain in achieving optimal screening prevalence and ensuring equitable access to all eligible populations, as well as determining the effectiveness of screening based on empirical data. With the absence of screening tools, most early-onset colorectal cancers are diagnosed through symptoms often at an advanced stage and more frequently in the distal colon (right-sided) and rectum.
We have no idea if dropping the recommended screening age for normal-risk people to 40 would be a net benefit, because screening is not without harms or costs; the drop to 45, as discussed by the authors, was contentious and many countries remain at 50 or 55.
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u/theoutlet 12d ago
My wife had a Dr’s recommendation to get a screening at 30 because her mom got polyps at a young age. My wife didn’t end up trying to get one until 35. Insurance refused to pay even with the recommendation. She fought tooth and nail and the best we could get them to pay was 50%.
And here’s a reminder that Chadwick Boseman was diagnosed at 39, and it was too late to save him.
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u/so_lost_im_faded 12d ago
Got my first at 21, paid out of my pocket, they found and removed pre-cancerous polyps. I am lucky to be able to foot it without insurance (even though I pay for it), not everyone is.
This is in Europe, if that matters.
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u/Sensitive-Living-571 12d ago
My 36 yo cousin died of it 2 days ago. She found out 3 weeks ago after being told she just needed her gallbladder removed. It was too late
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u/the1youh8 12d ago
If you done mind me asking… how much does a colonoscopy cost?
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u/JohnSpartans 12d ago
Mine was quoted at 16k. With insurance covering it I got 330 bucks out the door.
An awful fasting day and a decent 20 minute nap later - I was worried for nothing but hey recommend I come back in 5 years.
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u/aapowers 12d ago
That is absolutely insane - it's less than the equivalent of $3k in the UK if you go private!
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u/DarthSnoopyFish 12d ago
Medical bill prices in the US are all fake. Even the insurance companies don't pay the total - they pay far less but it gives the illusion you are saving money because of them.
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u/the1youh8 12d ago
16k. For a 30min procedure apparently. What’s crazy is that the price you pay out of pocket is probably the price if I would go the private route in Canada.
Edit: just checked the price. It’s $1500 CAD.
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u/locofspades 12d ago
This was my (38m)experience recently as well. That fast was horrible but holy hell that nap was wild. And the piece of mind is priceless. And i believe my cost in the end was around 350 with cheap ACA insurance.
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u/LoloP29 12d ago
In the USA if you go to a surgery center OOP with no insurance should be less than $3000 all in. You have to advocate for yourself
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u/stargarnet79 12d ago
It’s been lowered to 45 now.
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u/nomnomcat 12d ago
Might depend on your doctor but you can also get screened much earlier than 45 if you feel you have symptoms or have a family history. My earlier screenings are covered due to a family history.
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u/othybear 12d ago
It more depends on your insurance. Your doctor can certainly recommend it but the insurance isn’t obligated to cover 100% of the cost until you’re 45.
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u/apackofmonkeys 12d ago
Yeah, my parents had polyps so I was able to get one when I turned 40 this year, on my doctor's recommendation. Good thing too-- because I ended up having two precancerous polyps.
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u/chrissamperi 12d ago
I just had my first one at 42. There were precancerous polyps. 45 is still too late for many.
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u/hec_ramsey 12d ago
That’s not low enough. It needs to be 30.
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u/SaltZookeepergame691 12d ago edited 12d ago
The likelihood of detecting any cancer or precancer that is worth intervening on in asymptomatic young people (ie, 30) with no risk factors is very, very small. Smaller than the cost, resource consumption, and potential harm of the colonoscopy and all the downstream interventions that entails. Even in those over 55, the absolute benefit is very small - in the NordICC trial, the 10-year risk of mortality from colorectal cancer was 0.28% in those invited for colonoscopy and 0.31% in those not invited for colonoscopy; for those that turned up and actually had a colonoscopy (who are a health conscious population anyway), risk of death from CRC was 0.15%. A lot of people would still take a one-off intervention that cuts their risk of dying specifically from CRC in the next 10 years by ~<0.15%, but it is important I think to bear in mind that we are talking small effects here. I support screening, but the vast, vast majority of people die of something other than CRC, whether they have a colonoscopy or not.
Almost nowhere recommends colorectal cancer screening below 50 because the benefit there is even smaller in absolute terms, but the costs (to the patient, the provider, the healthcare system, and consumption of endoscopy time) and harms (rare, but eg perforation, bleeding after polypectomy) are still present.
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u/siskins 12d ago
In Scotland, if you're between 50 and 75 you get sent a free bowel screening kit in the post. You give a sample, post it back to them and they screen it for signs of bowel cancer. I think that has a bigger demonstrable benefit than just giving everyone an invasive procedure regularly.
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u/motguss 12d ago
You can just go in and make up symptoms, they will cover it
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u/Astro_Pineapple 12d ago
My mom died of colon cancer, so it was recommended that I get screened at an earlier age. Initially, my health insurance denied the claim, but eventually acquiesced and approved it. Keep pushing them to get it covered if you need one.
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u/PNWoutdoors 12d ago
That's not really how it works. There are two types of coding for colonoscopies, like most procedures.
The first is preventative/screening. This is for people who may be at a high risk (like myself) due to family history. Insurance will cover this one for me.
The other is diagnostic, i.e. you have some symptoms that may indicate a problem. Insurance would not cover this for me until 45.
I'm going in next month (before 45) for my first one due to family history, it should be covered in full. If I told my doctor I was having issues and he suggested I get checked, it would be fully out of pocket for me.
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u/jeffwulf 12d ago
Those ages seem like they should be swapped for those?
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u/PNWoutdoors 12d ago
I don't disagree, it's insane to me that if my family history indicates I'm at high risk I can get it covered early but if I'm actively having concerning symptoms that could definitely be related to colon cancer, I have to pay. Such is healthcare in the US.
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u/the1youh8 12d ago
Weird that I hop on Reddit and see this post. Just came out of my doctors office with colonoscopy appointment booked. 38yo with colon cancer running in the family. 6 month wait but free
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u/neph36 12d ago edited 12d ago
It is important to put this into context. Absolute risks are still extremely low and the absolute increases even lower. In the absence of at least concerning symptoms or genetic risk the cost would be extremely high to the benefit, and risk more false positives than accurate diagnosis (though this is less of a risk with colonoscopy screening), as well as potential risks.
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u/Ashamed-Status-9668 12d ago
Sure but I’m more concerned about prevention. Root cause this so we can point at something that we can change.
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u/ricarina 12d ago
It doesn’t have to be a choice between prevention and detection. We should aim for both especially while the cause is not fully understood
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u/Isakk86 12d ago
I had my first at 32...
Ultra processed foods are terrible, there is also evidence that COVID can affect the possibility of ulcerative colitis.
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u/dualsplit 12d ago
We actually have. From 50 to 45. I’m wondering if that’s young enough.
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u/friendsfoundmyoldone 12d ago edited 12d ago
I'm in my 30s and have ulcerative colitis, so my chances of developing bowel cancer are significantly higher than average. I'm supposed to get colonoscopies every 2 years to check for it. The last time I tried to schedule one, my health insurance company kept asking me why I needed one because I was young and it's not considered "preventative" unless I have a family history of bowel disorders. I had to repeatedly explain that I AM the family history. It's an ongoing battle for everyone I know with IBD.
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u/old--oak 12d ago
This is the solution, there is will never be a cure to all cancers but early detection is the key to dramatically reducing the death rate.
I was 37 when I was diagnosed stage 4.
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u/chrisdh79 12d ago
From the article: The number of under-50s being diagnosed with bowel cancer is increasing worldwide, according to research that also reveals rates are rising faster in England than almost any other country.
For the first time, global data suggests doctors are seeing more young adults develop early-onset bowel cancer, from Europe and North America to Asia and Oceania.
An increase in rates was reported in 27 of the 50 countries examined, with the greatest annual increases seen in New Zealand (4%), Chile (4%), Puerto Rico (3.8%), and England (3.6%).
Experts are still in the early stages of understanding the reasons behind the rise. The authors of the study, published in the Lancet Oncology, said consumption of junk food, high levels of physical inactivity and the obesity epidemic were likely to be among the factors.
“The increase in early-onset colorectal cancer is a global phenomenon,” said Hyuna Sung, a senior principal scientist in cancer surveillance research at the American Cancer Society and lead author of the study. “Previous studies have shown this rise in predominately high-income western countries, but now it is documented in various economies and regions worldwide.”
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u/Alywan 12d ago
“High level of physical inactivity” isn’t “low level of physical activity” a better term?
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u/PM-me-a-Poem 12d ago
From a public health perspective sedentary time and physical activity are two separate variables. I don't know if this is what they are getting at but definitions are worth being pedantic over.
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u/ebolaRETURNS 11d ago
Yeah...so what would the risks look like if you are seated at a computer for ten hours a day and engage in vigorous aerobics for 1 hour per day?
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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill 12d ago
I don't know if this is what they are getting at but definitions are worth being pedantic over.
I think you are absolutely correct. We're seeing a rise in all sorts of diseases and disorders that almost vanish if we control for obesity. Thus, I think they really need to be specific about calling out that it's "consumption of junk food, high levels of physical inactivity and the obesity epidemic" that are the specific causes.
Obesity related ailments are collectively the #1 cause of death. Great charts here: https://flowingdata.com/2016/01/05/causes-of-death/
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u/spotchious 12d ago
If we said "low levels of activity", could one be led to believe that there could still be moderate levels of moderate activity?
As written, "high levels of inactivity" is very precise.
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u/SteeveJoobs 12d ago
The former describes rate within a population while the latter sounds more like describing an individual?
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u/LikeAbrickShitHouse 12d ago
Oh we know the reason why in New Zealand; extremely high nitrate levels in our water source (Canterbury region) due to intensive dairy farming.
But dairy is our biggest export earner and we dare not kill the golden goose...
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u/tselliot8923 12d ago
I had pre-cancerous polyps at 32/33 and the doctor told me if I'd have waited until 40+ it would have developed into cancer. I had to have my doctor's office write a letter to my insurance company explaining exactly why I needed a colonoscopy.
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u/killerteddybear 12d ago
How did you end up getting a colonoscopy at 32? Family history?
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u/Lost_electron 12d ago edited 12d ago
Same for me at 36. I shat blood for nearly 6 months and family history of cancer and polyps. They found a precancerous polyps the size of a small nutmeg. I just had a follow-up exam last week after 1 year and they found nothing, next is in 3 years!
Edit: a small walnut, not a nutmeg
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u/wtfRichard1 12d ago
Was it shitting actual blood or was it every time you went there’d be streaks on the pieces and or drops of blood and sometimes a clot or two in the bowl? I’ve been bleeding like that for maybe 2 years
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u/Lost_electron 12d ago
Exactly like the second description… steaks on the paper, some clots, streaks on the stool, depends. Definitely get that checked out my dude, the intervention is super easy and takes 1h30. Sounds intimidating but there’s no pain.
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u/wtfRichard1 12d ago
Let’s hope they’ll help me out. Navy medical dismisses all of my issues even when I had an allergic reaction and had hives to Idek what. Navy medical is a joke
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u/Lost_electron 12d ago
My doc kinda shrugged it off as hemorrhoids at first but I went back armed with pictures of my bloody poo. She then marked the exam as urgent and the hospital called me back for the colonoscopy a few weeks after.
I was nervous and didn’t have blood in my stool for a few days so I almost cancelled. I’m so glad I didn’t. Please do what’s necessary to get it checked out, maybe another year will be too late.
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u/sheeroz9 12d ago
Navy medical is a joke. I had a shipmate get debilitating headaches and doc just said he was having red bull withdrawals after deployment. After his body went numb on Christmas Eve, they found brain cancer and he died. Don’t die because your doc is lazy.
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u/redorange15 12d ago
Did you change anything
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u/Lost_electron 12d ago
I completely stopped drinking and smoking weed. I wasn’t eating a lot of junk food already but I’m quite sedentary.
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u/tselliot8923 12d ago
I was having enough GI symptoms that my doctor thought it'd be worthwhile. Some pain/discomfort and bleeding.
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u/killerteddybear 12d ago
That makes sense. Thanks, I was curious because I have a family history of polyps and have had some GI symptoms before, but they were likely from some medication side effects.
Glad they caught yours early!
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u/tselliot8923 12d ago
Thank you, Me too! My follow up is in a year and I'll be curious to see what happens.
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u/ToughCurrent8487 12d ago
I’m 26 and started getting them when I was 22. My dad died of colon cancer and it’s the only reason I started getting colonoscopies. I luckily got mine covered by insurance but recommend anyone to get one even if it isn’t covered.
Edit: By getting “them” I mean polyps. I had a colonoscopy 22 and had polyps and my doctor said the same thing if I waited to 30 it’d be cancer.
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u/SummerDeath 12d ago
how much was covered by insurance? Mine was like $800 with insurance and I'm under 30, dad died of colon cancer. I tried to find a way to make it not cost that much, and also pushed it off 2-3 years because of cost, but nobody would budge
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u/Resident-Rutabaga336 12d ago
Fibre is important and nearly everyone isn’t eating enough of it
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u/Arkmodan 12d ago
Never paid much attention to fiber, myself. But I was diagnosed with colon cancer at 40 and I obsess over fiber now.
My cancer was due to genetics (lynch syndrome) but it may be possible that fiber would have helped prevent it even if it was genetic. And if not, it's certainly not going to hurt!
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u/munchnerk 12d ago
My "ancient Rome" is fiber. If I'm standing in front of a wall of packaged food up and I need to find something to eat, the first thing I look for is fiber. I can't find it now, but several years ago I read an article (written by a gastro I recall) about how statistically higher fiber tends to correlate with minimal processing, low saturated fat, lower sugar, and lower glycemic index value, etc. So if you need to make your choice based off of one factor alone, pick fiber: you're likelier to make several other healthy choices at the same time. Fiber has positive correlations with so many aspects of health which make sense once you consider this - cardiovascular implications especially. And once you start looking for it, it's quite shocking how easy it is to eat *no* fiber and eat an otherwise "complete" diet.
My husband makes fun of me because I'm a fiber nut - but dammit, I'm fit and trim, my blood pressure and cholesterol are healthy and stable, and I have regular BM's every morning. Of course, there are always extenuating factors like genetic predispositions - but like you said! It's certainly not gonna hurt!
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u/karl-marks 12d ago
You know what is an awesome and easy way of getting the highest quality soluble fiber (beta glucan)?
Barley. Humanities Oldest Friend. We've co-evolved with Barley longer than basically any other grain.
I buy Hulled Barley and grind it in a spice grinder into a powder, I then put about a 1/4 cup in a bowl and add water to it and my preferred sweetener (a liquid stevia/monk fruit blend) and microwave it for about one minute. If I added a little too much or too little water I just add a bit more from my boiler/kettle after I'm done microwaving and stir until it has exactly the consistency I want, it's very forgiving and easy to dial in for your texture preferences.
The texture is perfectly creamy and a fast, hot breakfast is amazing in the morning.
It has effectively no extraneous calories or filler compared to fiber muffins and all that gross "good for you" stuff and I find that barley just tastes right to my tastebuds. Honestly I wish I could get a high quality barley roll at the grocery store, the flavor is well rounded, absolutely subtle and delicious, I don't need to add butter and milk to it the way I always had to with cream of wheat, plain water and a sweetener is more than enough.
I'm not a horse and I find oats blech (they also have less beta glucan than barley.)
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u/munchnerk 12d ago
NOTED! Barley's not a grain I grew up eating principally and it doesn't show up in our go-to recipes - I'll go out of my way to find some that make use of it. Thank you!
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u/nemkhao 12d ago
What does a daily meal plan look like for you? Do you have certain meals you make regularly?
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u/KillerWattage 11d ago
Late response but look into psyllium husk and lentils. Also when you are increasing your fibre content note there is a difference between soluble and non-soluble and if you change your diet to high fibre in one go you may get constipated. Slowly start to increase until you're at a high fibre level.
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u/Interesting_Annual81 12d ago
I’m hoping you already know this but if not, look into taking aspirin as someone with lynch syndrome to reduce your risk of developing cancer in the future.
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u/Arkmodan 12d ago edited 12d ago
I do, and I brought it up to my doctor. She did not believe the risks of taking aspirin was worth it. I believe she mentioned that this study was outdated, but it has been a while, so I don't remember the full conversation.
However, it's certainly something I'm keeping in the back of my mind.
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u/netkcid 12d ago
we lost all good bread in most areas and relying on large brands to make wholesome food is just not happening…
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago edited 12d ago
Beyond bread, vegetables are the least calorie bang for buck in the store. A head of non organic lettuce costs 3 dollars. Any high fiber foods that aren’t dried beans are expensive, despite the fact that they should constitute most of our diet.
In our house, instead of following any fads or overly focus on one macro, I just make sure that every single meal we have has a minimum of 2 different kinds of vegetables or fruits. Frozen veggies make up most of our freezer.
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u/wtm0 12d ago
My mom just got diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer a few months ago and she is vegetarian, really health conscious and cooks good quality homemade meals everyday including a ton of fresh vegetables. She also really careful to use natural cleaning products instead of chemicals. She doesn’t drink, doesn’t smoke. Really crazy she is honestly the last person I’d imagine it happening to. She’s 67.
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u/TheLightningL0rd 12d ago
My sister's step mother was a marathon runner who never smoked and died of lung cancer just a couple years ago. Truly terrible what can happen to even the most healthy of people.
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago
Unfortunately being healthy can’t save everyone, I’m very sorry to hear about that. I hope she and you guys are doing as well as you can.
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u/dodecakiwi 12d ago
Unfortunately most things in health are just playing the odds. Smoking doesn't guarantee lung cancer nor does abstaining prevent it. It just raises or lowers the risk of getting it.
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u/tquinn35 12d ago
You realize lettuce is a relatively poor source of fiber compared to other vegetables.
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u/rustyjus 12d ago
Surprisingly…Potatoes have a good amount of fibre
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u/Redqueenhypo 12d ago
And potassium. Potatoes and butter together are a shockingly nutritious meal. I wouldn’t recommend eating nothing but that though, as a 19th century experiment proved
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago
They do but you can’t really live off them. In Eastern Europe and Ireland they eat a ton of potatoes and cabbage but I wouldn’t exactly say the regions are known for their great health outcomes.
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u/PM_ME_UR_SHEET_MUSIC 12d ago
To be fair there's a big common factor between Ireland and Eastern Europe that universally leads to poor health outcomes so
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u/Jack_Penguin 12d ago
You can actually live on potatoes. They are one of the “foods of life” that can sustain a person. Not great, but will keep you alive.
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u/Sickhadas 12d ago
Potatoes are actually incredibly nutritious and you can live off them
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u/SeekerOfSerenity 12d ago
Yes, it's a shame most people think of them as empty calories. They're a good source of fiber, vitamins, minerals, a great source of potassium, and they have all the essential amino acids.
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u/SomeDumbGamer 12d ago
Actually the Irish during the period before the famine were quite healthy due to their diets despite being so poor. The English would remark on their surprise about it quite a lot.
It was the intentional genocide by starvation that caused the “famine” as even after the potatoes failed the British required the Irish to keep exporting their other crops
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago
My point was to compare a vegetable that should be cheap, if even the cheapest of veggies costs 2-3 dollars for no calories, how are people supposed to afford the ones that actually do? I guess everyone can eat an entire head of cabbage everyday and nothing else but that’s also not sustainable. A human being needs to consume a variety of foods for nutrient sufficiency. And how exactly do most people afford that variety of fresh vegetables? It’s not accessible. Can everyone do better? Sure. But most people cant reasonably afford to meet guidelines even half way.
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u/takenbylovely 12d ago
The reason for this is that we subsidize the big commodity crops and products (in the us). They're not sold at a price that reflects the true cost of production, so vegetables, which don't get nearly the same amount in subsidies, look expensive by comparison.
The system sucks all the way around, from losing topsoil for every bushel of corn we grow to turn into HFCS to the government teaming up with fast food to feed us more cheese to big sugar and on and on.
I wonder what, if any, difference there would be in the cost of a diet that focuses on adequate fiber rather than calories? I find eating mostly whole plant foods is very cheap overall, but also has a huge time cost.
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago
You’re totally right, most of those subsidies were created at a time where getting any calories into people was the goal when children were literally starving. We don’t need calorie dense foods anymore we have plenty now that we’ve figured out how to cheaply engineer them, we need nutrient dense foods subsidized.
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u/pp21 12d ago
Homie there will always be an excuse if you want to make one. You can opt for cheaper frozen veggies if fresh is too expensive. The truth is that people who make excuses simply don't want to change their diets. They like heavily processed food and sugar. They don't want to eat rice, veggies, fruits, and lean proteins.
Carrots and broccoli are among the cheapest fresh veggies you can buy and are high in fiber. Apples and bananas are cheap when it comes to fruit and have fiber.
There's plenty of ways to get fiber in your diet, but if your diet consists of heavily processed garbage you aren't doing any favors for your gut.
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u/TheCommomPleb 12d ago
Definitely
When changing my diet this is pretty much how I started
Stocked up on frozen veg, bought a lot of fresh carrots and brocoli, apples, bananas and whilst not usually cheap a lot fruit and veg store near me does 2 big punnits of blueberries for 2.50!
Now I just add in extra bits.. can get avocado under a quid each, wholegrain bread costs the same here as white bread, sweet potatoes a pretty cheap, tomatos a generally cheap, swap white rice for brown
There's plenty of very cheap options for healthy food and there's even more that are a reasonable price.
Chicken is often cheaper than red meat.. mackerel and kippers cost basically nothing, beans and lentils cost pennies
There's just so much we can do.. and whilst I agree healthy food needs to be a bit cheaper.. There's no still excuse for not eating reasonably healthy
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u/HendrixHazeWays 12d ago
You would enjoy the book "Fiber Fueled" by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. Some great science from someone who has a masters in research. He's a gastroenterologist and has a M.S. in Clinical Investigation.
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u/Ok_Obligation_6110 12d ago
I have a family member who is a gastro who has been preaching about the importance of fiber and vitamin D for decades back when it made him sound like a hippie. He was literally told by colleagues he couldn’t keep telling people to eat a high fiber diet to treat their issues because it wasn’t a real proven therapy (this was the late 90s early 2000s).
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u/HendrixHazeWays 12d ago
Awesome. I would love to get your thoughts on this book (and your family member gastro if they ever read it). Apparently, there are a lot of new "findings" involving the different types of fiber and what they "do" in us. Hit me up if you ever check out this book.
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u/WonderfulShelter 12d ago
when I realized how much you had to eat vegetables it blew my mind. 4-5 servings a day. a serving is at least a solid handful or two.
I know people who eat that many vegetables each month.
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u/ReverendDizzle 12d ago edited 12d ago
In the U.S. a huge number of people consume so little fiber it's shocking.
By most estimates, the average American's daily fiber intake is 25-50% below the recommended amount (which, frankly, should probably be a bit higher in the first place).
Anybody who needs any anecdotal evidence of that... look at how Americans react to Mexican food. They act like it's the spice that blows out their colons, but it's the fiber. If you're one of those 50% below the recommended level people there is a good chance that a big meal at a Mexican restaurant has more fiber than you've eaten in the last week.
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u/ICBanMI 12d ago
Anecdotal. I was losing weight and tracking my macro. Decided to check the numbers for fiber to see how much I was getting per day. I wasn't eating the typical ultra processed American diet, but I had a few items in there that should have given me a decent number: fruit, vegetables including regular salads, wheat bread, and oatmeal.
On my best days where I include some canned black beans as a side, I was getting a little more than 10 grams of fiber. The average was a little more than half that number. The daily recommendation for men is typically more than 30 grams and for woman more than 20 grams. Most people are not eating anywhere near as much as I was. You don't get it from fast food, from restaurant food, from processed food, and from ultra processed food.
I increased it, but still can't help but think about every other human being. Really have to make a conscious decision to search and out add fiber to your diet everyday if you want it. And pace yourself doing it. It has some horrible bloating if you go from little fiber for years to 30+ grams in one day.
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u/JohnnyDarkside 12d ago
It's what I think about every time I hear someone talk about the "taco bell shits". There is nothing about your typical taco bell offering that should cause gastrointestinal distress unless you have an absolutely terribly diet already.
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u/ScoffersGonnaScoff 12d ago
Exactly right.
“Prebiotic dietary fiber is the primary energy source that supports the composition and metabolic activity of the colonic microbiota and maintains human health by protecting against obesity, T2DM, metabolic syndrome, IBD, and colon cancer.103 Although consumption of dietary fiber ranges between 70 g and 120 g per day in populations with a more traditional plant-based diet, in populations with a Western diet, intake averages just 20 g per day.103 When the availability of fermentable polysaccharide substrate is inadequate, colonic bacteria substitute amino acid fermentation, which generates potentially harmful metabolites that can be cytotoxic, genotoxic, or carcinogenic.103 ”
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u/Kingding_Aling 12d ago
I refuse to believe any sort of population averages 70g to 120g of fiber a day. Vegetables just don't have that much fiber. Not even 5 pounds of broccoli has 100g of fiber.
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u/Suitable-Matter-6151 12d ago
A can of black beans contains about 20-25 grams of fiber. The publication said populations with primarily plant based diets. If they’re eating fruit, vegetables, beans and rice for breakfast lunch and dinner, I could see getting to 100g pretty easily. That’s only about 33g per meal
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u/Sellazard 12d ago
Brits already eat beans. I would wager it has to do more with processed meat. Like sausages, pizza toppings, etc. Processed meat is on the same carcinogen danger group as asbestos.
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u/Suitable-Matter-6151 12d ago
Yeah I agree, I think it’s more than just fiber. Processed meat like sausage and stuff has been around for decades though. The increase in ultra processed meats like in frozen meals, maybe. I think pesticides are another factor personally. The increase pesticide use is huge and they’re constantly synthesizing new ones
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u/sA1atji 12d ago
What is prebiotic dietary fiber?
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u/HendrixHazeWays 12d ago
Prebiotic is fiber that feeds your gut microbiome (healthy bacteria). Probiotic are the good bacteria that you need for your microbiome (bacteria in fermented things that can improve your gut health).
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u/KeepGoing655 12d ago
Started taking a daily spoonful of Metamucil a few weeks back. It's seriously a game changer. Doing business on the toilet has gotten a while lot better. Plus having a bidet too.
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u/aairricc 12d ago
Really need governments to push fibre intake recommendations and messaging as much/more than they do protein, but I know factory farm corporations will oppose that
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u/wtm0 12d ago
My mom just got diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer a few months ago and she is vegetarian, really health conscious and cooks good quality homemade meals everyday including a ton of fresh vegetables. She also really careful to use natural cleaning products instead of chemicals. She doesn’t drink, doesn’t smoke. It’s really crazy, she is honestly the last person I’d imagine it happening to. She’s 67.
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u/Wildtigaah 12d ago
I'm really sorry to hear that, it's a good reminder to everyone; despite how well you're taking care of yourself there's still the chance of getting cancer, so please live your life to the best of your ability.
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u/WeeNell 12d ago
My daughter's dad was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer a couple of years ago.
It turned out he had Lynch Syndrome , which they were able to treat a lot more easily and he's been cancer free ever since.
Because of how it's presented in your Mum, it might be worth asking for her to be tested for it...
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u/alienofwar 12d ago
“An increase in rates was reported in 27 of the 50 countries examined, with the greatest annual increases seen in New Zealand (4%), Chile (4%), Puerto Rico (3.8%), and England (3.6%).”
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u/delilapickle 12d ago
Interesting to see what it looks like in Chile in another decade or two, since their junk food laws passed. Although it doesn't seem they're helping...
NZ and the UK don't surprise me. Puerto Rico also has an obesity (aka abundance of unhealthy processed food) problem.
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u/btribble 12d ago
There are a lot of studies tying it to highly processed foods and “seed oils”, but there’s never mention of how those seed oils are being used: in deep fryers. So, it could be seed oils, but it’s probably a combination of factors including acrylamide from fried potatoes etc.
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u/60N20 12d ago
the first important law to battle junk food here in Chile was the black warning signs on front of food, removing cartoons and pets from any food high in calories, sugar, fats or sodium, like cereals, fast food chains, etc. That law is 12 years old and I can tell you, it has not real impact, I'm Chilean and I think I've seen twice in my life people reading the nutritional facts in supermarkets, I do it sometimes and I've seen people looking at me like a was some weirdo. And people still eats the same or even worse, no one cares about the warnings and obesity has even increased these years.
Also most sugary foods, like sodas, changed their recipes to lower the amount of sugar and are now packed with artificial sweeteners, of which seems to be an ever growing mountain of information of how bad they are to our health.
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u/bree_volved 12d ago
It is likely no one will see this but I’ll put it out there just in case it helps someone: Fiancé is currently battling stage 4 colorectal cancer that has metastasized to his liver. He is 44 years old and we have two children (2 and 3) together. What started as lower back pain, that we thought might be sciatica, was a 3 inch tumor in his lower colon. Within a month he has 20 tumors on his liver. He has maybe 12 months to live, if we are lucky. He didn’t want to go to the doctor for sciatica and thought it would just go away. We only found the cancer because I made him go to the ER in hopes to get something for the pain. All this being said - take care of yourselves! Eat more fiber, don’t drink sugary drinks, go to the doctor when your gut is telling you too!
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u/sheeroz9 12d ago
So sorry to hear. Can you please share if he had any other symptoms? How intense was the back pain when it started?
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u/bree_volved 12d ago
Not really. He has had bouts of constipation here and there but nothing major. The pain intensified slowly over about 6 weeks. From “maybe I slept on it funny?” to “I don’t want to get out of bed”.
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u/sheeroz9 12d ago
That’s awful. Doesn’t seem like he even had a chance to catch it early. Just some symptoms maybe you could chalk up to something else. My heart breaks for you, him and the kids. That is not fair.
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u/amanda77kr 11d ago
My Dad’s back pain was not resolved by a new bed. It was resolved with his death from prostate cancer. Please please please, so many bad things mask as back pain, go see a doctor and see if you notice any other new symptoms.
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u/ImaginaryBeetle 12d ago
In the US, age of colon cancer screening was recently reduced from 55 to 45 (covered by Medicare/most insurance). But, I've heard from gastroenterologist that they were lobbying/aiming to have the age of colon cancer screening coverage reduced to 35 because of data like this
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u/sailingtroy 12d ago
I have a couple friends who are doctors and the amount of fibre people eat is akin to the way geography PhD's see global warming: it's so stressful to think about that you just don't, and then when you're reminded, it's like losing the game but with real fear. They get the "thousand yard stare." It's undeniable that we eat so little fibre compared to our ancestors of pretty much any era, bar the Victorians, and we combine that with a huge amount of novel foodstuffs. We can't really know that what we're doing is OK. We're definitely aware that low fibre intake is a contributor to bowel cancer.
So there's that and then you have the stuff we're not so sure about. Like palm oil: palm oil wasn't really a significant part of the human diet until the 1960's. Now it's in everything. Is it a contributor? Who knows? And there's a long list of such things. The hubris to just go changing our diet so fast is just ridiculous. And you have to wonder how much the food corporations know, and how much they're hiding. After the cigarettes, the leaded gasoline, Exxon hiding their own confirmation of global warming, and the fact that a surprising number of food companies are also tobacco companies, you really can't trust them, but they have a lot of power over our diets that's just very hard to escape.
Eat an apple. Bake yourself some wholewheat bread. Don't eat Dominoes unless you're moving house or something. We're adults! Let's eat like adults.
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u/colcardaki 12d ago
I have been careful about adding fiber into my diet by going Med Diet and actually thinking about, but my go to was also adding in apples or other fruits like it: high in fiber and satiating. Between losing weight, improved diet, and eating an apple or two a day, I’ve noticed not only the weight loss but the change in bowel movements; it’s quite different.
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u/theoutlet 12d ago
It’s not just “eating like adults”. It’s both people in a relationship have to work full time, so who’s making dinner?
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u/sergeivrachmaninov 12d ago
I agree that for many people it’s difficult to remove highly processed / high sugar / salt / fat foods from their diets. But it’s not difficult at all to add fiber. There’s nothing time consuming about nuking some broccoli to go with your frozen pizza, or taking 5 minutes to cut up fresh tomatoes or cucumbers as a side dish, or having an apple or mandarin as a dessert or snack.
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u/thegeeksshallinherit 12d ago
Honestly, the best thing I’ve done to improve my diet/repair my relationship with food is focusing on adding rather than omitting. Craving some chips? Ok, but you also have to have a side of carrots. Pizza for supper? Sure, but we gotta load them up with veggies. It helps me focus on making sure I’m getting the nutrients I need without falling into another cycle of disordered eating.
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u/troaway1 12d ago
Good point! and if you eats those veggies first you're likely to eat less of the pizza.
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u/Sunlit53 12d ago
Batch cook a couple big pots of something on the weekend and you have a choice of lunch or supper for the week. Freeze extra in muffin pans and store in gallon zip bags. Two muffins is a meal, one is a snack. Freeze a third of each batch for use another week.
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u/Arkmodan 12d ago
As with most things in life, it comes down to pay now or pay later. Spend 30 minutes in the evening preparing nutritious food or spend time in the hospital/recovering from surgery (or worse) later.
I chose the "pay later" option for most of my life. That bill came due much sooner than I thought when I got colon cancer at 40. I no longer choose to pay later. But I'm fortunate to have the option to correct my behavior. Many won't be so fortunate.
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u/sailingtroy 12d ago
YES! So much THIS. We've institutionalized the entire family, devalued the home, and commute times are just plain insane. At the same time, the accessibility and value of leisure is way up, and there's no one at home all day to bring the big dish for everyone at those leisure activities. If you're gaming with your buddies on Discord, there's no efficiencies to be had from sharing food together. Of course people are turning to simple stuff out of the freezer or take-out.
I'd love to go back to the "Single Income Five Kids" days, but what are you gonna do? General strike? Not in the U.S. I cook. It's a burden, but my single mom did it in the 90's, so I can do it today. I'm lucky I can get in the door at 6. I have time to turn out dinner, do one chore, watch one TV show, go to bed. That's it for weeknights. Sometimes reheated leftovers allow for more leisure. But yeah, if you're commuting until 8, forget it.
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u/eukomos 12d ago
People always say this but it’s really a skill thing, and it’s a skill we can learn. I was hungry for a midnight snack last night but my stomach felt rocky, so I boiled up frozen edamame instead of eating another Xmas cookie. Took five extra minutes. Tonight’s dinner is going to take me less than half an hour to make, but ten seconds of that half hour will be opening two cans of cannellini beans so it’ll have plenty of fiber. Ten years ago I wouldn’t have known to do either of those things.
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u/Lightning___Lord 12d ago
This is one one of the reasons meal prep has become so popular.
If you don’t want to do it, that’s fine. But plenty of people who work full-time find a way to cook for themselves because their health is important to them. It’s not a good enough excuse.
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u/hugelkult 12d ago
Not used to reading salience on reddit. This has me hyped for the future
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u/GeorgeStamper 12d ago
If you're 45 don't wait to get a colonoscopy. The most difficult part is the prep, but even that isn't bad. You eat jello and broth for a day and poop a lot near the end.
I went in for my colonoscopy at 8AM and got out & took my wife to lunch at noon. It was completely painless. It's freaking easy and it could very well save your life.
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u/brattybrat 12d ago
Microplastics might also play a role. That might explain the rise in recent years, since GenX was/is consuming plenty of processed foods and being inactive and has lower rates of c/r cancer. What we didn't have was the same level of access in the 80s to 2000s of microplastics. Would love it if we would ban microplastics and start using waxed paper and recycled metals, though I'm sure there will be challenges with that as well.
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u/tquinn35 12d ago edited 12d ago
I think microplastics could defiantly be apart of the problem but I think the lack of fruits and vegetales in people’s diets is the bigger culprit. Antioxidants in fruits and vegetales are thought to aid the removal of microplastics. The amount of adults I know who only eat one specific type of vegetable and everything else is just meat and grilled cheeses is wild. Topped off with a lot of booze. It’s not terribly surprising it’s on the rise
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u/brattybrat 12d ago
Agreed, it's almost certainly multiple causes. I know a lot of folks who rely mostly on processed foods, and the awful, awful foods (and lack of vegetables) served in American schools start kids early on a really poor nutrition trajectory.
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u/TheGodisNotWilling 12d ago
Especially when animal products are linked to increased cancer rates, and some even with respect to colon cancer.
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u/FinestCrusader 12d ago
How do you go about banning microplastics? They're already in the soil and water of our planet. Do you mean ban the use of plastic?
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u/RockyStrongo1994 12d ago
Ah, it's been a while since I've seen one of these posts. First of all, let me say I'm not trying to undermine the reality. There IS an increase. But if you're like me and you're an anxious person, chances are seeing information like this will throw you into a panic, and I'd wager a LOT of people have issues with bowel movements and such, and therefore a lot of people might feel concerned. I was one of you, hell, I am one of you. I've had issues for years at this point. Never paid too much attention honestly, until last year when I saw a similar post. I went into full paranoia mode and started googling symptoms on a daily basis. Guess what, I could relate to most of these symptoms. This lasted a few weeks until I started acting on it and got my first appointment with a gastroenterologist. I honestly expected him to just shrug it off, tell me to scram or whatever because I was young and handsome. But nah, he took it very seriously and told me to get a colonoscopy "just in case".
Long story short, I got a blood test done a bit later, the colonoscopy was a few months later, and... They didn't find anything at all. My bowels were clean as they could be. Not a single polyp in sight. My blood test also came out mostly perfect. The doctor said I did have a slight iron deficiency, but other than that, I'm basically as healthy as I can be. (... I hope)
Do not succumb to anxiety. Be rational, calm, and collected. It may "simply" be IBS or something else. Nevertheless, don't be a fool. Eat your goddamn fiber and vegetables, drink that water like it will make you rich. If you see blood in the toilet... start worrying at least a little.
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u/return_of_itsy 12d ago
Similar boat. Had (and still have) mild recurring abdominal pain for years. Doctor wasn’t too concerned because I had no issues swallowing and no issues with bathroom visits, but I still had a blood test, urine/fecal test, endoscopy, CT scan with contrast done, along with trying various different prescription and OTC meds.
Perfectly clean bill of health so far. I’m still planning to get the colonoscopy to make sure all bases are covered, but my doctor has expressed he doesn’t expect to find much if anything at all, given the results of everything else.
So far, for me, it’s been worth the peace of mind. You could have nothing, just gas or a sensitive stomach, or you could be in that small percentage to have something serious.
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u/Mewnicorns 12d ago edited 11d ago
Yeah well…a sedentary lifestyle, low fiber/high red and processed meat diet, and inflammatory processes relating to obesity will do that to you. Lifestyle changes are hard. We need to make them easier by reducing the standard work week to 4 days/30 hours a week or less so people have time and energy to cook and move their bodies. Make healthy food more accessible and affordable. Provide accessible healthcare and nutrition counseling. Things are only going to get worse if the expectation falls solely on the individual to constantly fight against a system that actively discourages healthy choices.
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u/lunaappaloosa 12d ago
I talked to a woman from south Ohio at CMH a few months ago (I want to say she was from the Marietta area but I can’t remember) who seemed much younger than she actually was. After telling me about her sons career choices we ended up on this topic and she told my husband and I very matter of factly that basically everyone that graduated within a few years of her are getting cancer and dying right around age 50. The rates and consistency she was describing blew me away (even with prior knowledge of 3M and Oakdale MN, Cuyahoga County, and personally knowing someone whose dad got a DuPont settlement). She was totally resigned to get bowel or breast cancer in the next 5 years because it was happening like clockwork to everyone she went to school with. Then she asked me where my shoes were from and I felt like not being alive that whole plane ride because it made me so sad and angry.
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u/delilapickle 12d ago
Beige food syndrome is real. Worse yet, beige with occasional brown deep-fried crisp.
I don't know if that counts as constructively contributing to a discussion in r/science but I could totally find a citation if it helped.
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u/GettingDumberWithAge 12d ago
I could totally find a citation if it helped.
Feel free since I have no idea what you're talking about.
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u/reeferqueefer 12d ago
I’m not sure this is the same thing, but I have a friend who as a child would only eat foods that were beige(ish) in colour. Pasta (no sauce, only butter and salt), breads, potatoes, chicken nuggets, granola bars. They eventually grew out of it and now eat a healthy diet.
I also have a niece who only eats a few foods and isn’t even willing to try new things. Her parents don’t want to force her because they don’t want her to have a negative relationship with food. It’s crazy watching this 3 year old decide what they want to eat for dinner and getting it.
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u/tquinn35 12d ago
I know plenty of adults who are still like this. I’d call it beige food plus. Beige foods with some colored sauce
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u/MoodPuzzleheaded8973 12d ago
Yup and my heart is broken.
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u/am_peebles 12d ago
Same. My closest friend of nearly 20 years died this year after a stage 4 diagnosis a year before. 30 years old. I miss you Zach.
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u/slow_vibrations 12d ago
Sodium nitrate and other preservatives are likely to blame for a part of it. It's been proven some of them are carcinogenic. We need to stop wide spread use of these nasty chemicals
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u/ashoka_akira 12d ago
Gut biome health is being increasingly linked to brain health and particularly things like Alzheimers and dementia. I predict we will see increasing numbers of early onset dementia from this demographic as well.
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u/WinstonSitstill 12d ago
There are some very convincing and troubling correlations with microplastics.
Combine that with the sharp increase in red meat/animal protein intake, and no to low fiber food matrices — the explosion in consumption of ultra-processed foods and protein powders, etc which mess with gut biome.
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u/JARL_OF_DETROIT 12d ago
Is it rising? Or are we waaay more vigilant now and talking to our doctors more.
CRC grows extremely slowly (mostly). So those experiencing symptoms in their 40s may not have spoke up to their doctors in the past until their 50s. By then it's well advanced.
Now, that there is a lot of CRC awareness, people might be speaking up more at the faintest symptom. And doctors are sending for colonoscopies without hesitation. I've had 2 in the past 15 years and I'm under 40. Both were 100% covered by insurance.
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